Okay so I think the main deck is pretty good now with slight changes to come based on testing and meta choices.
The two suspect slots imo are the 1-drop removal and 4-drop creature. Obliterator may be too slow with a potential shift towards hyper aggressive decks. Overall I predict a potential shift towards hyper aggressive and graveyard decks. How big that shift is remains to be seen. Both decks may be slightly more difficult matchups for us.
So lets start compiling a list of sideboard options for the deck, here is what I've got so far.
Against Zoo:
I feel like anything over 2cmc is too slow
Against graveyard decks:
Multiple grave strategies will become stronger without DRS (Living End, Goryo's Vengeance). Also relevant for finks and pod combo.
I will edit in any other suggestions people have to this list as you reply.
IMO - every SB for this deck should pack the following spells for their versatility in dealing with problem cards/decks:
Pithing Needle
Surgical Extraction or Extirpate
Targeted Removal
Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
relic of progenitus: is one of my favorites and it follows the theme of card advantage. bile blight: is something I am really considering. I used it in standard to kill double burning-tree emissary. Felt too good and with zoo running them as a four of. Not to mention it hits token builds like b/w tokens hard. Decks with swarms tend to be tougher match ups for us as we do a lot of 1 for 1 trades. illness in the ranks: also hits splinter twin, though if they go exarch then they still get an infinite army of blockers which gives them more time to deal with it. My experience is that they will just bounce it and combo off so it doesn't really phase them. Lucky for us, our discard hits them extra hard. I haven't tried this one yet. pithing needle: I wanted two in my sb as opposed to my one. torpor orb: is one of my favorite sb cards. Issue is it only sticks for a couple turns usually. abrupt decay and sideboarded echoing truth always get it for me.
I think post-sideboard is where our deck can really shine. We are not really too hateable excluding leyline of sanctity. Though that card seems to be seeing more and more play...
I will post a list when I get a chance, though my disclaimer is that the list is about 2 years old with new good cards thrown in quickly. Not at all optimized.
RWU was a tough matchup, my discard felt useless but even my opponent admitted he top decked like a fiend. It might be winnable, but since we have so much 1for1 interactions, the draw, in particular the top decked sphinx's wrecked me. Since I play sets of bloodghast, and geralf's, the board wipes were fine, but I just couldn't establish control like I did with the other matchups. My abyssal persecutors did nothing. All my creature removal did little, though this is obvious why. After sideboard I fared better but still lost 0-2 to a well timed vapor snag of all things. Bitterblossom was literally the only card that was stellar though, which made both games close and possibly winnable.
I think our four drop slot, which should be the best, is lacking honestly. I love obliterator and Percy, but they feel so slow. A single vapor snag potentially buys the opponent 3 turns before having to deal with a swing and we only have so much discard which this particular control deck drew through pretty easily. I am gonna keep trying with Percy though. Urborg is sexy feeling with obliterator and geralf's messenger but every time I play it against Jund/junk, the player thanks me. :/ I am considering splashing just for the finisher slot and some utility. Probably red for thundermaw hellkite. Only thing is, I would probably need more than two swings more often than with Percy. It would wreck up some lingering souls/bb tokens. Still unsure though. I may really start to like grafted wargear if the meta moves as far away from bg as mine did. First week after drs banning, it seemed like everyone was playing it to see if it was still viable, which I think it really is. Next week, so much affinity, RWU, zoo and burn. Meta seems to be speeding up like we thought. Red would get us a faster board wipe than damnation too. anger of the gods seems super legit against all the aggro match ups, though I don't know that we will need too much help since I almost always get to turn four or the chance to hit a damnation.
I did recently victim of night a t3 affinity inkmoth (ravager sacking pretty much everything +1/+1's) which felt good, though honestly, it was a huge misplay for the opponent so I can't feel to proud. Affinity can get so greedy sometimes. Even with two untapped lands from an opponent, they love to call bluffs for some reason in both paper and online.
Your points on the RWU matchup are definitely pertinent. When I was thinking RWU - I was thinking midrange, not the control or hybrid builds so no Sphinx's Revelation. That card is probably one of the best card an opponent can have against us - it undoes all of our 1-for-1 and 2-for-1 effects. This card should be discarded ASAP unless you are grabbing removal to protect a bob or BB. Surgical Extraction and it's buddies would be a good SB card here either removing win cons or troublesome cards like sphinx. Underworld Dreams might also be a good SB card in this M/U. Since the games are already grindy and long, you easily could do 10 damage just from normal draw spells. I cannot think of any other hate card we have for draw currently. I love the Chains of Mephistopheles I have in the Legacy version...
I am not sure I see this deck running things like Thundermaw Hellkite, but I would definitely like to see a hypothetical list for this and the green splash. With Urborg, we may be able to get away with using fetches and basic lands that aren't swamp - so it is certainly plausible.
IMO - finishers for this deck that require more that 4 mana are not the best idea - but above are the options I could think of on the spot. We have bob to consider as well as the advantage of such a low curve and land count. If we increase the CC of the deck, then we need to increase the land count. For every additional land you draw above what you need (4) you are losing card advantage essentially. This is why I run Mutavaults. Of course, this can be mitigated if you decide to run raven's crime. I just think (philosophically) the deck is much better with the lowest curve from multiple angles.
I am considering running bile blight in my 2x Disfigure slot, we will see how the tournament goes tonight with my build!
Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Some other options are Desecration Demon and Bloodgift Demon. I think DD is reasonable. Saw play in some BG midrange decks and is good in decks with a lot of removal. BD is probably not better than what's listed above.
The swords of X/Y are good finishers too, if slow, but seem better than Bad Moon to me.
Matchup 1 against Junk Pox (WIN 2-1) Game 1 I lost while beating down with double bitterblossom. he had souls tokens and I was overwhelming him quickly as we were both topdecking. He randomly topdecks a sword of life and shadow and then gains life with that a couple of turns and then activates his tomb of the archangel to gain huge amount of life. He was at 4life at one point, and I was still racing him even with the gain. Oh well... Bad moon at any point would have won it for me. Sideboard: +3 Extirpate, +2 Duress, -3 Thoughtseize, +2 Duress Game 2 I won with a few very well timed IoK, obliterator, and 2x gatekeeper removing his 2x tidehollow sculler. He got his sword again and was never able to equip thanks to the gatekeepers and a well timed victim of night. I also Extirpated his lingering souls at one point. I felt like I knew what he was doing before he did most of this game enabling me to correctly counter every move ha made with appropriate removal. Game 3 I won with early double bitterblossom and good discard. There was never even a chance for him this one.
Matchup 2 against Merfolk (LOSS 0-2) Game 1 I had an opening hand which would have been godly if it werent for the two mutavaults being my only lands (had bob, BB, Bad Moon, Inquisition, Liliana, 2x Mutavault). Sigh - mull into a no lander, then mull to 5 and stuck on 1 land for 3 turns in a row. I scooped after T4. Sideboard: +3 Pithing Needle, +2 Smother, -3 Obliterator, -2 ? Forgot Game 2 I had a no-land opening hand, mull to 6 with barely decent draws but playable with 3 lands. I continue to get flooded and his kira, 3x lords, and spreading seas make me lose quickly even with 2x nighthawk on the field (doing zero to his islandwalk)
Matchup 3 against RUG Twin (WIN 2-1) Game 1 I open with good stuff but his snapcaster bolts get me. He never combos, even though I drew only one thoughtseize. It came down to a point where we were both topdecking and he had a vendilion hitting my castable obliterator. Mutavaults and bob blocked his 3x snapcaster keeping me in it two more turns but I couldnt draw a removal spell for the clique. I did draw 6 lands this short game (slight flooding - at least 2 were manlands). Sideboard: -2 Disfigure, -1 Bitterblossom, -2 Obliterator, +3 Extirpate, +2 Duress Game 2 was really intense. I 1-for-1 and 2-for-1 him the whole game and it comes down with us both at low life and topdecks. I extirpate his lightning bolt (while he had snapcaster in hand) so no more bolts to the face. I end up almost killing myself with BB, then a topdecked bad moon wins it for me! Game 3 was much more 1 sided in my favor. I discarded all of his good stuff and was able to extirpate lightning bolts again while he had another in hand - booyah valuetown. When he realized he couldn't respond he looked very unhappy. I ended up beating him to death on the last turn of the game (T5 after time was called). I was at about 17 life thanks to vampire nighthawk. Mutavault helped me kill him that turn. He was topdecking almost the whole game (thank you wrench mind).
Match 4 against Junk Goodstuff (LOSS 0-2) game 1 I was able to 1-for-1 him until we were both topdecking. I drew bitterblossom very late and ended up getting killed by manlands and lingering souls tokens. I was stuck on 2 mana for about 4 turns not allowing me to cast my nighthawk which he eventually discarded. Nighthawk in play would have probably allowed me to win as he was very low in life. Sideboard: -3 Wrench Mind, -2 Funeral Charm, -2 Disfigure, -1 Bitterblossom, +3 Extirpate, +2 Smother, +3 Deathmark Game 2 was a similar situation. I was able to get us topdecking again and he had card advantage with voice of resurgance. I killed 3 bobs and a couple Goyfs, but in the end I was killed by manlands again. I still never got a bitterblossom even though I extirpated all of his abrupt Decay. He killed me with a treetop village and G/W Manland.
I learned a ton from this tournament:
Extirpate was amazing, winning me the games against twin most likely
Almost every game I had early bitterblossom I won. Bad moon was never a dead card (although only drew it 2x)
Ghost Quarter is absolutely necessary for manlands. Although we are winning the attrition game (most of the time) once it does get to TD mode, without Bitterblossom the mutavaults are very quickly outclassed by better manlands.
Mutavaults were handy on occasion as blockers and 2 damage here or there. Much of the time they were Darksteel Citadel.
I really wanted Bile blight often, and I am going to replace the smother in SB with them.
Disfigure wasn't good enough most of the time.
Sometimes Phyrexian Obliterator was tough to cast, but not often enough to make him not worth having. He was a major threat opponents struggled to deal with more than once. Percy might be better to enable us to use more colorless mana without sacrificing too much consistency.
@Big Jim - Bad Moon was awesome in testing, and I saw no one else playing black creatures out of about 15 players outside of a couple dark confidants. The swords are good, however.
Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Surgical extraction may just be the card I am looking for. I agree that bad moon is iffy, but my meta also has nothing but bob's too so I think you can really get away with it right now. I agree about ghostquarter, I would even drop down my mutavaults for it.
As for thundermaw, I just goldfished (pretending I was playing each deck and how it would go... I know, I am so cool. XD) with a red splash and hated it. The turn slower thing was definitely relevant, though I love the idea of a hasty fatty.
I tested against zoo yesterday as it is going to be one of the big dogs that, "if you can't beat it, then find a new deck." I have to say, bile blight may be our hero. I played against zoo who threw down three nacatls jokingly, and oh man would it have been amazing had I been clutching it. Too bad I wasn't, as the zoo deck stomped me four times in a row. I just couldn't keep up with my slow 1-2 mana removal spells. Bitterblossom was way too slow obviously. My 2 Disfigure were useless. I dream of them chaining three burning-trees with me and bile blight. Bile blight also would hit an army of pester mites, though everyone I have in my meta plays exarch. Could at least act as a ghetto fog to buy a turn for damnation. honestly splinter twin is probably one of our easier match ups with our discard. Bile blight also is BB which for some reason almost always means a card is good. Bitterblossom, bob, bbe, etc. jkjk...
I am thinking about upping to 4 inquisitions over my 2-3 inquisition thoughtsieze split. Helps more against zoo too. Any ideas for the zoo matchup? I hate vendetta, but it may be something of an option, if we don't play lightning bolt. Deathmark may be maindeckable, just hope you don't face delver (could hit a steppe lynx) or twin. I wanted drown in sorrow to be something but I know now it is less than I hoped. Does hit delver pretty good, but nobody in my meta plays delver. Work has been crazy haven't been able to work on this much but just thinking of it while driving.
Abyssal Persecutor + Miren should make the deck more consistent with mana. I upped the count of victim of night so there are 13 removal spells for Percy currently. Percy is much harder to kill than Obliterator simply because it is out of range of Dismember - a very popular SB option in many decks. Path to exile is pretty much the only card that kills him.
Also considering Altar's Reap - major synergy with bitterblossom and percy. Instant speed!
Just thought of Crypt incursion for those matches where you bleed too fast and stabalize late. Also good GY hate. Answers Kitchen Finks.
Edit - I tweaked the mana base and a few cards to improve consistency and mulligans. I may add a second Miren at some point.
-1 Gatekeeper, +1 Liliana otV. (BBB vs 1BB)
-1 Wrench Mind, +1 Urborg (I would rather draw too many urborgs then get stuck on colorless. New legend rule makes this possible).
I also noticed a nifty thing you can do with Ghost Quarter. If you are in need of Black mana you can use GQ on another GQ to get it. Comes into play untapped. This is another reason to run GQ over mutavault or Tec Edge.
Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Jitte would be amazing, and yes the legacy version plays several cards this version can't. This is a port deck. Obviously some cards can and can't be played but we can find modern level equivalents and change up the deck to better fit the meta. Modern is a much different beast than legacy which is why this deck may be able to port well enough. We have a lot of the discard. I would also love cabal therapy too. I think one of the swords could be a very possible jitte replacement, though I haven't really tested out bad moon.
I like the update! Hope it tests well! Crypt incursion is a card I always wished would become a thing. I wanna get that card in response to a living end. Nom nom.
Er...isn't this missing a key component in Jitte? Would some form of equip be good to sub in...say, SoLS or Batterskull?
If I were to use an equipment it would be Sword of Light and Shadow. Recurring Gatekeeper, bob, and Abyssal Persecutor is pretty sweet. Life gain is very relevant. I may put 1 in my deck or SB at some point - need to continue testing. I haven't yet because this deck taps out quite often and tapping 5 mana to equip a sword is a lot. 2 mana for bad moon to pump the team is often lethal if BB has been out a few turns. Also makes stuff out of LB range.
Batterskull is far to high a CC for this deck.
If this was legacy, I would say it needs Jitte, Modern is a pretty fair format and I had no problem with my matches tonight. Losing to mana screw sucked but that happens once in a while with the gate (in legacy too) because we run low land count and have no deck manipulation. It's a risk I take.
@Parmaha
Zoo - aggro is tougher than some other stuff for us but definitely winnable. We probably have it better than many decks out there right now anway. I think the following will help:
We need to buy time until we can take the board position away from them in the mid game. I would side out BB for this matchup - I agree it's too slow unless you can weather the storm. I would not maindeck deathmark personally, but that's a meta call. It is an allstar SB card, however.
Seeing a decklist would help!
Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
My list current is pretty similar to your new one. I changed a few things recently, and a lot since my first post. -(2-3) grafted wargear, which I may give a second chance. All of my creatures are pretty fine with with it. Adding in Bitterblossom may make it pretty sweet as I tested before I had the bb's. Cut 2 disfigure, 2 dismember to fit in 2 inquisition and two bile blight. Cut one thoughtseize in hopes of reducing damage I take and cut drown in sorrow(infest). I kinda want more draw, but I really wanna get my bloodghast back in. I may just be too attached to that card, but it being unable to block really wrecked me even prior to playing zoo, so I doubt that he would be any good moving forward in my build. Geralf's messenger did serious work for me in every game I played him. Against zoo, he is a kinda ghetto kitchen finks. The ping to the dome is great for getting in the last 2-4 left. Especially if you have a sac outlet.
Two slots left for possibly:
1-2x Sword of Light and Shadow
2-3x flex slot, probably something for sacking Percy and bob if he gets out of hand. Maybe altar's reap. I think I really need some draw.
2 grafted wargear
Writing this down, I realized how high my curve has gotten. With so many two+ drops. I may try to fit in some more discard, maybe main deck duress. My curve never really mattered with bob, for this build, but it is still terrifying and slow. Probably why the zoo player hit me so hard. I tested this list a couple times against zoo and fared much better with maindecked Bile blight. Post boarding was never really any issue as zoo is easy to deal with with any life gain accompanying removal, I just wanted to improve my game 1. I may try out crypt incursion though. That card is pretty versatile. Let me know what you think! And if you can think of any solid 1 drops we can use.
Edit: I think that fast zoo, is the tougher match. The slower variants are a cake walk with all our removal. Sticking removal t2, a geralf's or a gatekeeper, then Percy/obliterator is absolutely sexy against them. I actually think they may have just been getting a really good draw with my own bad draw. No excuses just trying to figure out how a creature based deck could beat The Gate in even it's worst form. I will do more testing against fast zoo.
I really like your list - you are right it is very similar to mine. Somewhere between our builds is optimum probably and I am glad you are testing the deck so we can continue to hammer that build out. Please keep posting detailed reports and ideas!
You are also correct in that your curve may be a bit too high. My personal favorite 1-drop "flex" removal spell is Funeral Charm. This card just has so much going for it. You can use it to kill a dude with 1 toughness, pump one of your guys to trade or do extra damage. You can insta-discard the opponent at the end of their draw step (very dirty). You can also randomly give one of your guys swampwalk for the win (hello urborg?). Funeral Charm - yeah.
I would mainboard 2-3 Altar's Reap in your build. This card has even more synergy for you than it does for me. You can chump with a faerie and then insta-sac for 2 cards, you can get valuetown out of geralf's messenger, and it is also an out for Percy. The fact that it is instant is just amazing. No life loss either like the popular sign in blood. Also, is there a reason you are not running a 4th dark confidant? If you have one - put it in. If you don't - use reap IMO.
IMO, You are correct again regarding the zoo matchups. Fast zoo needs to be weathered and slow zoo should be a good matchup for us. Bile blight is just good. It fits the "2-for-1" ideology of the deck so well. I would also go up to 3 Urborg. In your current list with the higher CC I think you need 22 lands. I am personally going to 22 lands regardless to improve my mulligans. I almost always keep a 1 lander including 1cc discard and bitterblossom, but otherwise I mull to 2 lands (ideally). You also don't want to miss a land drop in order to be able to cast that damnation asap in the aggro matches. Personally, I wouldn't MD Damnation, since it costs 4 and can be inconsistent when you probably need it most.
Be careful with torpor orb - it turns off gatekeeper. IMO there are better options in that SB slot also.
Please keep playing the deck and reporting! Hopefully we can get a few more dedicated testers soon.
If you are reading this thread, playing the deck, and not posting - please start posting!
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Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Looking at these two, I am unsure which is correct in the deck. The lifelink seems important to me for bitterblossom and bob, but Geralf's allows for card advantage options that Nighthawk does not. Nighthawk seems like a better card all by itself and geralf's is more synergistic with the deck. Any thoughts? I will eventually test both.
Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
I am actually kinda surprised I lost those zoo matches now. With my current list they are running out of steam pretty quickly. Once Percy hits the board they pretty much scoop. I actually am beginning to feel like this deck is really becoming competitive. Only really hopeless matches I faced were control and merfolk, though I imagine fairies would be tough too. I don't know these are unwinnable for this deck, but those matches I played were. The utility of the creatures caught me badly, but I have little experience with fish. My meta made a hard shift from bgx and bg control as well. I have not taken this to a tournament yet, but been playing tournament level decks including a few modern winner decks.
Geralf's messenger is an absolute house for me. Perhaps it is my meta, but he just is wrecking. Percy gets in 12, 3-6 from lands, the last 2-7 is geralf's. That happened way too often for me. (In different order obviously)
I had some fun interactions with him. I baited a grul-clan rampager on a loam lion, with a victim of night in hand. Couldn't do that with a batman (vampire nighthawk). He is a semi-kitchen finks against them, which is a card they hate to see. He can even pick up a goyf here and there.
Also, the lightning bolts EVERYONE is playing is a scratch for him. Pretty much every deck runs bolt now so messenger represents a frequent 2 for 1 with a little extra 4 damage.
He plays well with bounce and almost always gets some value, whereas I never had the consistency with batman.
The lack of lifegain is also huge. I am probably cutting bob as a result :'( because I hate ripping a Percy off the top deck. Pretty much negates our landbase's no hurt lovin. Not to mention he can eat your removal needed for opponents and Percy. Had a game where I had bob and Percy out and I was just looking to kill Percy after them being negative, and bob killed me. I will be looking to other options for the two drop slot that gains life potentially.
This said, batman is better at times for burn, unless they have searing blaze.
He buys more turns against a lot of decks that don't have removal. People will hold back three fatty creatures if he is out, frequently.
The flying is HUGE too. Like supppppeerrr important. So consider your meta if you have a lot of faerie he may be better. (Not much experience with fairies either)
He also loves when people play lingering souls, or other token cards.
Cards I am considering:
Rite of consumption (feels super weak though but could be nice with geralf's 8 life point swing)
I played again yesterday (I will edit in a full report later) and went 2-2. Both games I lost were due 100% to mana screw. Both games I won I was "Full suicide" at least half the time - meaning bob and BB out and taking over fast.
I am not sure how control matchups are hopeless. I have never had a problem with them - MD discard usually hurts real bad and then extirpate in the SB with more duress - they shouldn't stand a chance. Also, BB is really hard for them to deal with. Merfolk is an issue, but definitely winnable. I am awaiting my friend to finish his fish deck so I can do some testing against it. It is largely dependent on who has the better hand as discard and sac effects are awesome against any creature combo deck. Bile blight can hose them in many situations (hint, target their phantasmal image). Kira, the great glass spinner can be rough, but at least we have sacs. Ghost quarter your own land with the spreading seas to prevent the unblockable aspect. On a side note, I cannot imagine removing bob is ever correct in the gate - you need to lower your curve in order to accommodate him as your second engine with BB. The lifegain from nighthawk helps a bunch with managing the loss... Ripping Percy off the top should not be an issue due to the probability of that happening - that's just bad luck, not bad deckbuilding or strategy.
Anyway, here's how it went. I will be slightly less detailed with the wins - basically the deck did what it was supposed to: Trade and 2-for-1 with you - attrition and disruption - and then bob, BB, and beats.
Overall 2-2
Match 1 vs Junk pox (same guy as last time) LOSS 0-2
Game 1 I kept a great hand. 3 lands, Wrench mind, Lily, Nighthawk, and something else. He thoughtseized me twice (on the play) and I drew nothing but lands 7 TURNS IN A ROW! 10 lands, 4 nonland cards. I know right?!
Game 2 I open with no lands, mull to 6 with no lands, mull to 5 with 1 land. Sadly, I was still in this game much of the time, but I was never able to get ahead on card advantage. He had T1 thoughtseize again and I took 3 turns to get a second land. This entire match was basically horse****. Oh well...
Match 2 vs Sylesnia Aggro WIN 2-0
Game 1 I won with 2 bitterblossoms on the field, a nighthawk, bob, and percy. Victim of night Percy ftw. His guys (while rather large) still could not successfully attack through percy and tokens.
Game 2 The deck just did what it does, ripping threats from hand and making him sac the ones he played. Bob and BB win.
Match 3 vs Titan Scapeshift LOSS 1-2
Game 1 I wrecked him with ghost quarters and discard. BB tokens won.
Game 2 I had to mull to 5 (no land hands again!!!) and then went ahead to draw 10 lands. Sadly I still almost killed him. I had him topdecking almost right away with wrench mind and lily, but I never drew a win condition in all those lands. He kills me with an Obstinate Baloth (which he casted). Again - just rediculous. I drew 6 nonland cards and 10 lands this game. At least 3 of the lands were ghost quarter.
Game 3 was a decent game, although I drew only one of my 12 discard spells, so even though I had him on a decent damage clock, I was never able to disrupt his combo. Once again, this match was just complete horse****!
Match 4 vs Jund Assault Loam WIN 2-1
Game 1 we attrition each other to top decks and I ended up cranking a lily to -6 killing his seismic assault and lily. I beat him with black weenies. BB and bob never got online this game (ty bolt and abrupt)
Game 2 he has more discard than me and lands threat after threat off the top of his deck (including a thundermaw hellkite. Not much I could do here.
Game 3 he kept a 1-lander and I went ultra-full-suicide on him with 2 bobs and 2 BB on the field, the game was virtually over by T4. To his credit it was a really good 1-land hand that he kept, full of abrupt decays, goyfs, a bob, and a thoughtseize. He thoughtseized away one of my very redundant BB (drew 3).
This deck is very good. It is unfortunate that after I made extra measures to increase the consistency of the deck I get some of the worst mana screw I have ever experienced in magic giving away my easy matchups for free basically. The comment among spectators all night was "wow, yeah... Bitterblossom is good" lol. The SB was very good, I didn't get a chance to use my 1-of Altar's Reap and 1-of Sword of Light and Shadow (slightly tweaked the list to try these cards). My feeling is still leaning towards Bad Moon being better than sword because its just so insane with bitterblossom. For now I will keep it as 1 of each though.
Nighthawk saved me from dying in full suicide mode a couple of times. The card needs to be answered on the spot or he just puts you too far ahead on life. Also blocks like a champ.
Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
I went to another tournament the other day with the Gate. Unfortunately there weren't enough people that showed, but I was able to snag a good RUW player to do some testing. After testing 5 games (I won 3 - the 2 I didn't I was mana screwed). Here is what I learned.../
Sideboard I used:
3 Extirpate, 2 Duress, 2 Pithing Needle. Siding out various removal and percy.
Landing a T2 Bitterblossom on them after T1 discard is what makes this a good matchup for us. This is extremely hard for them to deal with. Electrolyze keeps us at bay, but mostly their win condition becomes snapcaster and bolt.
Extirpate is better than Surgical Extraction. No responses is really important...
Targets in this matchup include: Sphynx's Revelation, Electrolyze, Lightning Bolt, Cryptic Command. In that order. Possibly electrolyze first.
Pithing Needle on Clestial Colonnade, might not even need this with ghost quarter.
Never walk into a counterspell just to tap out. It is not worth it and they will out tempo you. Discard is key.
I had a discussion with the other player after we were done about bad moon vs sword of L+S. We both concluded that Bad moon was superior. With little to no opposing black creatures in the meta it rarely pumps opposing creatures. Late game topdecking it is usually a win on the spot. Early game it protects your stuff from things like electrolyze and lightning bolt. Miren, the moaning well can now sac a token for a profit every turn late game if needed. Also, your opponent has the awkward choice of killing either the bitterblossom or the bad moon when they topdeck their removal spell (Because you discarded before playing it).
Here is the most updated list I am running. I have determined that running 21 lands is fine.
Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Call me obsessed, but I can't stop thinking about this deck...
sorry for the wall of text!
This version might be better in a bitterblossom meta or a meta with large amounts of Leyline of Sanctity
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Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
hey fellow the gate lover! I would really love to see this deck become tier 1, although I have my doubts, basically because most of the decks run ton of removal for BOB, as far as bitterblossom goes, folks now will be prepared for it. Anyways I am a merfolk player and for that MU you should add some mutilates or damnations to the SB, otherwise is nearly unwinnable, I playtested a lot against a former BR control deck of mine, sweepers were the only way how to kill them - even so, counterspells are a still an option with spell pierce, remandcursecatcher.
I do agree about bob removal, luckily we can get enough discard usually to help alleviate our weak points such as removal, though path, or other removal on our board state hurts hard.
As far as the fish matchup, that is great info thanks! I don't have much experience with fish and faeries which is why I crammed damnation maindeck though I would definitely move it to side board. As far as arena and sign in blood, I am considering both in bob's slot, though to gate players this is sacrilege, if you play with recur able threats like I do, then altar's reap is a good option as well. Your list actually looks kinda like the black devotion deck, which is not a bad thing at all. tendrils is a deceptive card though, I can't decide if I like it but I have never really felt it, or the variants of it. If you do testing let me know how it goes.
I think I am going to try out funeral charm and altar's reap. They do seem strong and funeral charm is a card I have always loved.
This is definitely a pet deck of mine as well. Been playing it forever even before it was even kinda viable. I haven't really worked on my sideboard much as I usually play this against the competitive decks after tournaments but I was mainly working on improving my game one, been too busy but recently had some free time in between crazy moments which is why my sideboard was so slapdashed. After a lot of testing, my matchups have improved a LOT. I am getting around a 3/4 win rate, but I am not having the same mana issues you seem to be, all my losses were just to simply better draws and top decks. I have never played against affinity with this though I doubt it would be an issue at all.
Extirpate is a really beastly card in so many matchups. Even control feels manageable as long as they don't top deck too lucky. I am still really tempted to try out phyrexian obliterator but Percy seems to be doing fine for me and I don't really wanna splurge on obliterators while they are so overpriced.
Splashing green is almost worth it just for abrupt decay. Gives us more options if they do get a combo piece or a pesky anything down. I don't know how I feel about goyf, but he is never really a BAD call. Every time I consider green I always want to throw the:
I am beginning to wonder if we were to write a primer if we would get more interest going for this deck. I would love to see more traffic and comments then just the three of us with a few occasional passerby's. Could really help it a lot. We already got past the, "but legacy gate uses x" comments I feel. Hehe. This deck definitely feels competitive to me though so it might just be a matter of getting the right numbers down.
So far my record has been 3/4 usually, I've gone to a couple different tournaments since my last report but its mostly the same stuff so I didn't write a detailed report. Extirpate keeps doing tons of work against combo and control. Last night I played UWR and I was able to play around his counterspells and burn very effectively with my discard. Sticking a BB or a bob is so important for the deck. Sometimes it is tricky and I never play either out blind. This is why T1 discard takes up 8 slots in my deck.
With that being said I have never had trouble sticking BB or Bob. Bitterblossom is easier because the removal is more specific so it usually comes down T2 followed by Lily, Gatekeeper, or Nighthawk. After we are about topdecking, thats when I play bob (unless my discard tells me I have nothing to worry about).
Based on the advice above, I am now switching between 2x Crypt Incursion and 2x Damnation in the SB depending on which meta I am walking into. Luckily, the meta with merfolk, lacks living end and the meta with living end lacks merfolk.
All in all, I have played against very few decks running abrupt decay after the DRS ban. Those that do usually blow up my BB, but that leaves me with tokens, so it's not a big deal. Sticking a bob requires a certain level of foresight that only comes with a ton of time dedicated to playing your deck. I assure you that removing bob is never a good thing and is in fact, sacrilege!
I have contemplated writing a primer. Does anyone know if we can just convert this thread or do I need to start a new one?
Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
I think it would have to be a new one but I hope not, ask Lantern, he/she would know. This deck deserves at least a primer though. It has the coolest name of any of men out there IMO.
I think the only thing we are really worried about is removal, and honestly, every creature deck feels the same way. Jund has the same issue of people bolting their bob, same goes for every other deck running him. We are lucky in that we can run a much more proactive discard package though, so he is a LOT safer in our build I feel. Not to mention we buy so much time with removal and our three drops which are very good. Bob, is essential to our build and I am never happy when he does get top deck bolted, but I never feel like I am losing after he does. I am not going to cut it, I am just saying that we should be fine if they do top deck a removal spell. I have yet to play him before turn three or four honestly, as he just refills our hand so well after the opponent is top decking and we control the board.
As for drown in sorrow, I tried it out and was unimpressed. Hurts affinity slowly, I think but nothing else really. Might get you a few cards and tokens but I just never had luck. And like you said it is worthless against the deck it is most needed for, zoo. I think bile blight is just better in this deck for the occasional two for one, and it can token sweep if need be, buys a turn or kills twin depending on the creature they use though I doubt twin will be tapping out to double black open without protection.
As for the suicide damage from gb, I completely agree. If we had some form of lifegain, I would definitely think it was more viable, but nighthawk wouldn't be enough to recoup the damage reliably. Too bad there is no 3 damage pharika's cure type spell.
Pithing needle answers pod pretty good. So does damnation. As for bitterblossom...i have yet to see another deck running it. When the time comes we splash green i guess. The gb build i presented is more dmg from lands, but less damage from the rest of the deck. Scavenging ooze is a good lifegainer too. Also just thought of another sac outlet. Bubbling cauldron.
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Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Dude i really like the deck! Let us know how it is in testing! Im thinking of writing a primer and i think his type of build is a competitive option. But i guess the testing will tell.
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Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
In my testing and tournament experience so far with the gate, bad moon has been really good. Bad Moon's key interaction is with Bitterblossom, and anything else is a bonus - it doesn't really matter how fast you are if you are pooping out a 2/2 flyer every turn. This is weak to abrupt decay and thats why I am now running 9x 1cmc targeted discard spells in my deck over any combination of Wrench Mind or whatever. That being said, I don't think this is what your deck wants to do and I wouldn't put in bad moon in a deck just to save a nighthawk from a bolt - its helpful, but nowhere near the focus of that strategy...
There is definitely a three drop issue in your deck, which I usually get around by maxing out my discard spells. Once you have wrecked their hand, just play 1 a turn - its not that big a deal. In your deck with the Nykthos, you shouldn't have too much of a problem. You want to slow the game down as much as possible and start playing difficult to kill devotion guys. Try Geralf's Messenger over Vampire Nighthawk.
Victim of night is the best removal spell to use for this deck IMO, and I would definitely use it over GftT (kills those pesky inkmoth nexus lol). Disfigure was never a good card in my testing. I either needed to do 3dmg or 1dmg, which is why I went to a mix of Victim of night and Funeral Charm (more versatile).
After thinking on it for a while I would make the following changes:
-4 Vampire Nighthawk
-1 Gary
-3 Wrench Mind
-4 Go for the throat
Profane command lets you doing annoying and sometimes lethal things, targeted discard will help you with opposing removal spells and counters, and anything in general lol. You need something powerful to do with all that mana you can produce with Nykthos and I think profane command and Gary are it. WIth the lifegain from gary and resiliance and devotion from Geralf's Messenger, I don't see much advantage to running Vampire Nighthawk anyway.
Hope this helps! Let us know how your testing comes along.
On your side note - I don't think vampire tribal is the way to go here. Not enough synergy and I think the changes I am proposing here will help more with your game plan. Also, maybe test out an arena.
Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
How is everyone doing with their various builds? Ive been plYing tezzert AoB lately but ill post another report next week probably. Cant let people always predict my deck...
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Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
The two suspect slots imo are the 1-drop removal and 4-drop creature. Obliterator may be too slow with a potential shift towards hyper aggressive decks. Overall I predict a potential shift towards hyper aggressive and graveyard decks. How big that shift is remains to be seen. Both decks may be slightly more difficult matchups for us.
So lets start compiling a list of sideboard options for the deck, here is what I've got so far.
Against Zoo:
I feel like anything over 2cmc is too slow
bile blight
Against graveyard decks:
Multiple grave strategies will become stronger without DRS (Living End, Goryo's Vengeance). Also relevant for finks and pod combo.
Grafdigger's Cage
Nihil Spellbomb
Crypt Incursion
Leyline of the Void
Against UB Faeries (and other opposing bitterblossom)
Opposing Bitterblossom might suck. Our discard might negate that though...
Against Affinity:
Not sure how this matchup would go, Bitterblossom might stop them pretty good.
Smother
Damping Matrix
Pithing Needle
Against Tron:
Not too worried with all the discard we have, but still.
Fulminator Mage
Against Burn
Extirpate
Sun Droplet
Crypt Incursion
Whip of Erebos
Against Midrange
UWR & Jund - I feel like midrange has a disadvantage against us. I wouldn't dedicate cards for this MU personally.
Grafdiggers Cage (Snapcaster)
Relic of Progenitus (goyf, Scooze, and snapcaster)
Nihil Spellbomb
Leyline of the Void
Against Control
Again, another MU I wouldn't dedicate cards for personally
Pithing Needle (manlands and PWs)
Underworld Dreams
Sadistic Sacrament
Memoricide
Bile Blight
Against Merfolk:
Pithing Needle
I will edit in any other suggestions people have to this list as you reply.
IMO - every SB for this deck should pack the following spells for their versatility in dealing with problem cards/decks:
Pithing Needle
Surgical Extraction or Extirpate
Targeted Removal
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
bile blight: is something I am really considering. I used it in standard to kill double burning-tree emissary. Felt too good and with zoo running them as a four of. Not to mention it hits token builds like b/w tokens hard. Decks with swarms tend to be tougher match ups for us as we do a lot of 1 for 1 trades.
illness in the ranks: also hits splinter twin, though if they go exarch then they still get an infinite army of blockers which gives them more time to deal with it. My experience is that they will just bounce it and combo off so it doesn't really phase them. Lucky for us, our discard hits them extra hard. I haven't tried this one yet.
pithing needle: I wanted two in my sb as opposed to my one.
torpor orb: is one of my favorite sb cards. Issue is it only sticks for a couple turns usually. abrupt decay and sideboarded echoing truth always get it for me.
I think post-sideboard is where our deck can really shine. We are not really too hateable excluding leyline of sanctity. Though that card seems to be seeing more and more play...
I will post a list when I get a chance, though my disclaimer is that the list is about 2 years old with new good cards thrown in quickly. Not at all optimized.
RWU was a tough matchup, my discard felt useless but even my opponent admitted he top decked like a fiend. It might be winnable, but since we have so much 1for1 interactions, the draw, in particular the top decked sphinx's wrecked me. Since I play sets of bloodghast, and geralf's, the board wipes were fine, but I just couldn't establish control like I did with the other matchups. My abyssal persecutors did nothing. All my creature removal did little, though this is obvious why. After sideboard I fared better but still lost 0-2 to a well timed vapor snag of all things. Bitterblossom was literally the only card that was stellar though, which made both games close and possibly winnable.
I think our four drop slot, which should be the best, is lacking honestly. I love obliterator and Percy, but they feel so slow. A single vapor snag potentially buys the opponent 3 turns before having to deal with a swing and we only have so much discard which this particular control deck drew through pretty easily. I am gonna keep trying with Percy though. Urborg is sexy feeling with obliterator and geralf's messenger but every time I play it against Jund/junk, the player thanks me. :/ I am considering splashing just for the finisher slot and some utility. Probably red for thundermaw hellkite. Only thing is, I would probably need more than two swings more often than with Percy. It would wreck up some lingering souls/bb tokens. Still unsure though. I may really start to like grafted wargear if the meta moves as far away from bg as mine did. First week after drs banning, it seemed like everyone was playing it to see if it was still viable, which I think it really is. Next week, so much affinity, RWU, zoo and burn. Meta seems to be speeding up like we thought. Red would get us a faster board wipe than damnation too. anger of the gods seems super legit against all the aggro match ups, though I don't know that we will need too much help since I almost always get to turn four or the chance to hit a damnation.
I did recently victim of night a t3 affinity inkmoth (ravager sacking pretty much everything +1/+1's) which felt good, though honestly, it was a huge misplay for the opponent so I can't feel to proud. Affinity can get so greedy sometimes. Even with two untapped lands from an opponent, they love to call bluffs for some reason in both paper and online.
I am not sure I see this deck running things like Thundermaw Hellkite, but I would definitely like to see a hypothetical list for this and the green splash. With Urborg, we may be able to get away with using fetches and basic lands that aren't swamp - so it is certainly plausible.
Mono Black or Splash Finishers:
Red Splash Finishers:
Green Splash Finishers:
IMO - finishers for this deck that require more that 4 mana are not the best idea - but above are the options I could think of on the spot. We have bob to consider as well as the advantage of such a low curve and land count. If we increase the CC of the deck, then we need to increase the land count. For every additional land you draw above what you need (4) you are losing card advantage essentially. This is why I run Mutavaults. Of course, this can be mitigated if you decide to run raven's crime. I just think (philosophically) the deck is much better with the lowest curve from multiple angles.
I am considering running bile blight in my 2x Disfigure slot, we will see how the tournament goes tonight with my build!
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
The swords of X/Y are good finishers too, if slow, but seem better than Bad Moon to me.
Matchup 1 against Junk Pox (WIN 2-1)
Game 1 I lost while beating down with double bitterblossom. he had souls tokens and I was overwhelming him quickly as we were both topdecking. He randomly topdecks a sword of life and shadow and then gains life with that a couple of turns and then activates his tomb of the archangel to gain huge amount of life. He was at 4life at one point, and I was still racing him even with the gain. Oh well... Bad moon at any point would have won it for me.
Sideboard: +3 Extirpate, +2 Duress, -3 Thoughtseize, +2 Duress
Game 2 I won with a few very well timed IoK, obliterator, and 2x gatekeeper removing his 2x tidehollow sculler. He got his sword again and was never able to equip thanks to the gatekeepers and a well timed victim of night. I also Extirpated his lingering souls at one point. I felt like I knew what he was doing before he did most of this game enabling me to correctly counter every move ha made with appropriate removal.
Game 3 I won with early double bitterblossom and good discard. There was never even a chance for him this one.
Matchup 2 against Merfolk (LOSS 0-2)
Game 1 I had an opening hand which would have been godly if it werent for the two mutavaults being my only lands (had bob, BB, Bad Moon, Inquisition, Liliana, 2x Mutavault). Sigh - mull into a no lander, then mull to 5 and stuck on 1 land for 3 turns in a row. I scooped after T4.
Sideboard: +3 Pithing Needle, +2 Smother, -3 Obliterator, -2 ? Forgot
Game 2 I had a no-land opening hand, mull to 6 with barely decent draws but playable with 3 lands. I continue to get flooded and his kira, 3x lords, and spreading seas make me lose quickly even with 2x nighthawk on the field (doing zero to his islandwalk)
Matchup 3 against RUG Twin (WIN 2-1)
Game 1 I open with good stuff but his snapcaster bolts get me. He never combos, even though I drew only one thoughtseize. It came down to a point where we were both topdecking and he had a vendilion hitting my castable obliterator. Mutavaults and bob blocked his 3x snapcaster keeping me in it two more turns but I couldnt draw a removal spell for the clique. I did draw 6 lands this short game (slight flooding - at least 2 were manlands).
Sideboard: -2 Disfigure, -1 Bitterblossom, -2 Obliterator, +3 Extirpate, +2 Duress
Game 2 was really intense. I 1-for-1 and 2-for-1 him the whole game and it comes down with us both at low life and topdecks. I extirpate his lightning bolt (while he had snapcaster in hand) so no more bolts to the face. I end up almost killing myself with BB, then a topdecked bad moon wins it for me!
Game 3 was much more 1 sided in my favor. I discarded all of his good stuff and was able to extirpate lightning bolts again while he had another in hand - booyah valuetown. When he realized he couldn't respond he looked very unhappy. I ended up beating him to death on the last turn of the game (T5 after time was called). I was at about 17 life thanks to vampire nighthawk. Mutavault helped me kill him that turn. He was topdecking almost the whole game (thank you wrench mind).
Match 4 against Junk Goodstuff (LOSS 0-2)
game 1 I was able to 1-for-1 him until we were both topdecking. I drew bitterblossom very late and ended up getting killed by manlands and lingering souls tokens. I was stuck on 2 mana for about 4 turns not allowing me to cast my nighthawk which he eventually discarded. Nighthawk in play would have probably allowed me to win as he was very low in life.
Sideboard: -3 Wrench Mind, -2 Funeral Charm, -2 Disfigure, -1 Bitterblossom, +3 Extirpate, +2 Smother, +3 Deathmark
Game 2 was a similar situation. I was able to get us topdecking again and he had card advantage with voice of resurgance. I killed 3 bobs and a couple Goyfs, but in the end I was killed by manlands again. I still never got a bitterblossom even though I extirpated all of his abrupt Decay. He killed me with a treetop village and G/W Manland.
I learned a ton from this tournament:
@Big Jim - Bad Moon was awesome in testing, and I saw no one else playing black creatures out of about 15 players outside of a couple dark confidants. The swords are good, however.
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
As for thundermaw, I just goldfished (pretending I was playing each deck and how it would go... I know, I am so cool. XD) with a red splash and hated it. The turn slower thing was definitely relevant, though I love the idea of a hasty fatty.
I tested against zoo yesterday as it is going to be one of the big dogs that, "if you can't beat it, then find a new deck." I have to say, bile blight may be our hero. I played against zoo who threw down three nacatls jokingly, and oh man would it have been amazing had I been clutching it. Too bad I wasn't, as the zoo deck stomped me four times in a row. I just couldn't keep up with my slow 1-2 mana removal spells. Bitterblossom was way too slow obviously. My 2 Disfigure were useless. I dream of them chaining three burning-trees with me and bile blight. Bile blight also would hit an army of pester mites, though everyone I have in my meta plays exarch. Could at least act as a ghetto fog to buy a turn for damnation. honestly splinter twin is probably one of our easier match ups with our discard. Bile blight also is BB which for some reason almost always means a card is good. Bitterblossom, bob, bbe, etc. jkjk...
I am thinking about upping to 4 inquisitions over my 2-3 inquisition thoughtsieze split. Helps more against zoo too. Any ideas for the zoo matchup? I hate vendetta, but it may be something of an option, if we don't play lightning bolt. Deathmark may be maindeckable, just hope you don't face delver (could hit a steppe lynx) or twin. I wanted drown in sorrow to be something but I know now it is less than I hoped. Does hit delver pretty good, but nobody in my meta plays delver. Work has been crazy haven't been able to work on this much but just thinking of it while driving.
4x Bitterblossom
4x Dark Confidant
3x Gatekeeper of Malakir
3x Vampire Nighthawk
3x Abyssal Persecutor
Spells:
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Thoughtseize
2x Funeral Charm
2x Wrench Mind
3x Victim of Night
2x Altar's Reap
4x Liliana of the Veil
1x Bad Moon
4x Ghost Quarter
1x Miren, the Moaning Well
4x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2x Bojuka Bog
11x Swamp
2x Pithing Needle
3x Duress
3x Extirpate
3x Deathmark
2x Bile Blight
2x Crypt Incursion
Abyssal Persecutor + Miren should make the deck more consistent with mana. I upped the count of victim of night so there are 13 removal spells for Percy currently. Percy is much harder to kill than Obliterator simply because it is out of range of Dismember - a very popular SB option in many decks. Path to exile is pretty much the only card that kills him.
Also considering Altar's Reap - major synergy with bitterblossom and percy. Instant speed!
Just thought of Crypt incursion for those matches where you bleed too fast and stabalize late. Also good GY hate. Answers Kitchen Finks.
Edit - I tweaked the mana base and a few cards to improve consistency and mulligans. I may add a second Miren at some point.
-1 Gatekeeper, +1 Liliana otV. (BBB vs 1BB)
-1 Wrench Mind, +1 Urborg (I would rather draw too many urborgs then get stuck on colorless. New legend rule makes this possible).
I also noticed a nifty thing you can do with Ghost Quarter. If you are in need of Black mana you can use GQ on another GQ to get it. Comes into play untapped. This is another reason to run GQ over mutavault or Tec Edge.
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
I like the update! Hope it tests well! Crypt incursion is a card I always wished would become a thing. I wanna get that card in response to a living end. Nom nom.
If I were to use an equipment it would be Sword of Light and Shadow. Recurring Gatekeeper, bob, and Abyssal Persecutor is pretty sweet. Life gain is very relevant. I may put 1 in my deck or SB at some point - need to continue testing. I haven't yet because this deck taps out quite often and tapping 5 mana to equip a sword is a lot. 2 mana for bad moon to pump the team is often lethal if BB has been out a few turns. Also makes stuff out of LB range.
Batterskull is far to high a CC for this deck.
If this was legacy, I would say it needs Jitte, Modern is a pretty fair format and I had no problem with my matches tonight. Losing to mana screw sucked but that happens once in a while with the gate (in legacy too) because we run low land count and have no deck manipulation. It's a risk I take.
@Parmaha
Zoo - aggro is tougher than some other stuff for us but definitely winnable. We probably have it better than many decks out there right now anway. I think the following will help:
We need to buy time until we can take the board position away from them in the mid game. I would side out BB for this matchup - I agree it's too slow unless you can weather the storm. I would not maindeck deathmark personally, but that's a meta call. It is an allstar SB card, however.
Seeing a decklist would help!
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
4x Bitterblossom
3x Dark Confidant
3x Gatekeeper of Malakir
3x Geralf's messenger
3x Abyssal Persecutor
Spells:
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Thoughtseize
3x Wrench Mind
4x Victim of Night
2x Bile Blight
2x Damnation
4x Liliana of the Veil
3x Ghost Quarter
1x Miren, the Moaning Well
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
15x Swamp
3x Extirpate
2x Pithing Needle
3x Duress
3x Relic of Progenitus
2x Deathmark
2x Torpor Orb
Two slots left for possibly:
1-2x Sword of Light and Shadow
2-3x flex slot, probably something for sacking Percy and bob if he gets out of hand. Maybe altar's reap. I think I really need some draw.
2 grafted wargear
Writing this down, I realized how high my curve has gotten. With so many two+ drops. I may try to fit in some more discard, maybe main deck duress. My curve never really mattered with bob, for this build, but it is still terrifying and slow. Probably why the zoo player hit me so hard. I tested this list a couple times against zoo and fared much better with maindecked Bile blight. Post boarding was never really any issue as zoo is easy to deal with with any life gain accompanying removal, I just wanted to improve my game 1. I may try out crypt incursion though. That card is pretty versatile. Let me know what you think! And if you can think of any solid 1 drops we can use.
Edit: I think that fast zoo, is the tougher match. The slower variants are a cake walk with all our removal. Sticking removal t2, a geralf's or a gatekeeper, then Percy/obliterator is absolutely sexy against them. I actually think they may have just been getting a really good draw with my own bad draw. No excuses just trying to figure out how a creature based deck could beat The Gate in even it's worst form. I will do more testing against fast zoo.
I really like your list - you are right it is very similar to mine. Somewhere between our builds is optimum probably and I am glad you are testing the deck so we can continue to hammer that build out. Please keep posting detailed reports and ideas!
You are also correct in that your curve may be a bit too high. My personal favorite 1-drop "flex" removal spell is Funeral Charm. This card just has so much going for it. You can use it to kill a dude with 1 toughness, pump one of your guys to trade or do extra damage. You can insta-discard the opponent at the end of their draw step (very dirty). You can also randomly give one of your guys swampwalk for the win (hello urborg?). Funeral Charm - yeah.
I would mainboard 2-3 Altar's Reap in your build. This card has even more synergy for you than it does for me. You can chump with a faerie and then insta-sac for 2 cards, you can get valuetown out of geralf's messenger, and it is also an out for Percy. The fact that it is instant is just amazing. No life loss either like the popular sign in blood. Also, is there a reason you are not running a 4th dark confidant? If you have one - put it in. If you don't - use reap IMO.
IMO, You are correct again regarding the zoo matchups. Fast zoo needs to be weathered and slow zoo should be a good matchup for us. Bile blight is just good. It fits the "2-for-1" ideology of the deck so well. I would also go up to 3 Urborg. In your current list with the higher CC I think you need 22 lands. I am personally going to 22 lands regardless to improve my mulligans. I almost always keep a 1 lander including 1cc discard and bitterblossom, but otherwise I mull to 2 lands (ideally). You also don't want to miss a land drop in order to be able to cast that damnation asap in the aggro matches. Personally, I wouldn't MD Damnation, since it costs 4 and can be inconsistent when you probably need it most.
Be careful with torpor orb - it turns off gatekeeper. IMO there are better options in that SB slot also.
Please keep playing the deck and reporting! Hopefully we can get a few more dedicated testers soon.
If you are reading this thread, playing the deck, and not posting - please start posting!
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
Geralf's Messenger
BBB
Comes into play tapped (no blocks right away)
-4 life to opponent
Synergy with Altar's Reap is amazing
Vampire Nighthawk
1BB
Deathtouch, Lifelink, Flying
Looking at these two, I am unsure which is correct in the deck. The lifelink seems important to me for bitterblossom and bob, but Geralf's allows for card advantage options that Nighthawk does not. Nighthawk seems like a better card all by itself and geralf's is more synergistic with the deck. Any thoughts? I will eventually test both.
seems extremely good to me...
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
Geralf's messenger is an absolute house for me. Perhaps it is my meta, but he just is wrecking. Percy gets in 12, 3-6 from lands, the last 2-7 is geralf's. That happened way too often for me. (In different order obviously)
I had some fun interactions with him. I baited a grul-clan rampager on a loam lion, with a victim of night in hand. Couldn't do that with a batman (vampire nighthawk). He is a semi-kitchen finks against them, which is a card they hate to see. He can even pick up a goyf here and there.
Also, the lightning bolts EVERYONE is playing is a scratch for him. Pretty much every deck runs bolt now so messenger represents a frequent 2 for 1 with a little extra 4 damage.
He plays well with bounce and almost always gets some value, whereas I never had the consistency with batman.
The lack of lifegain is also huge. I am probably cutting bob as a result :'( because I hate ripping a Percy off the top deck. Pretty much negates our landbase's no hurt lovin. Not to mention he can eat your removal needed for opponents and Percy. Had a game where I had bob and Percy out and I was just looking to kill Percy after them being negative, and bob killed me. I will be looking to other options for the two drop slot that gains life potentially.
This said, batman is better at times for burn, unless they have searing blaze.
He buys more turns against a lot of decks that don't have removal. People will hold back three fatty creatures if he is out, frequently.
The flying is HUGE too. Like supppppeerrr important. So consider your meta if you have a lot of faerie he may be better. (Not much experience with fairies either)
He also loves when people play lingering souls, or other token cards.
Cards I am considering:
I am not sure how control matchups are hopeless. I have never had a problem with them - MD discard usually hurts real bad and then extirpate in the SB with more duress - they shouldn't stand a chance. Also, BB is really hard for them to deal with. Merfolk is an issue, but definitely winnable. I am awaiting my friend to finish his fish deck so I can do some testing against it. It is largely dependent on who has the better hand as discard and sac effects are awesome against any creature combo deck. Bile blight can hose them in many situations (hint, target their phantasmal image). Kira, the great glass spinner can be rough, but at least we have sacs. Ghost quarter your own land with the spreading seas to prevent the unblockable aspect. On a side note, I cannot imagine removing bob is ever correct in the gate - you need to lower your curve in order to accommodate him as your second engine with BB. The lifegain from nighthawk helps a bunch with managing the loss... Ripping Percy off the top should not be an issue due to the probability of that happening - that's just bad luck, not bad deckbuilding or strategy.
Anyway, here's how it went. I will be slightly less detailed with the wins - basically the deck did what it was supposed to: Trade and 2-for-1 with you - attrition and disruption - and then bob, BB, and beats.
Overall 2-2
Match 1 vs Junk pox (same guy as last time) LOSS 0-2
Game 1 I kept a great hand. 3 lands, Wrench mind, Lily, Nighthawk, and something else. He thoughtseized me twice (on the play) and I drew nothing but lands 7 TURNS IN A ROW! 10 lands, 4 nonland cards. I know right?!
Game 2 I open with no lands, mull to 6 with no lands, mull to 5 with 1 land. Sadly, I was still in this game much of the time, but I was never able to get ahead on card advantage. He had T1 thoughtseize again and I took 3 turns to get a second land. This entire match was basically horse****. Oh well...
Match 2 vs Sylesnia Aggro WIN 2-0
Game 1 I won with 2 bitterblossoms on the field, a nighthawk, bob, and percy. Victim of night Percy ftw. His guys (while rather large) still could not successfully attack through percy and tokens.
Game 2 The deck just did what it does, ripping threats from hand and making him sac the ones he played. Bob and BB win.
Match 3 vs Titan Scapeshift LOSS 1-2
Game 1 I wrecked him with ghost quarters and discard. BB tokens won.
Game 2 I had to mull to 5 (no land hands again!!!) and then went ahead to draw 10 lands. Sadly I still almost killed him. I had him topdecking almost right away with wrench mind and lily, but I never drew a win condition in all those lands. He kills me with an Obstinate Baloth (which he casted). Again - just rediculous. I drew 6 nonland cards and 10 lands this game. At least 3 of the lands were ghost quarter.
Game 3 was a decent game, although I drew only one of my 12 discard spells, so even though I had him on a decent damage clock, I was never able to disrupt his combo. Once again, this match was just complete horse****!
Match 4 vs Jund Assault Loam WIN 2-1
Game 1 we attrition each other to top decks and I ended up cranking a lily to -6 killing his seismic assault and lily. I beat him with black weenies. BB and bob never got online this game (ty bolt and abrupt)
Game 2 he has more discard than me and lands threat after threat off the top of his deck (including a thundermaw hellkite. Not much I could do here.
Game 3 he kept a 1-lander and I went ultra-full-suicide on him with 2 bobs and 2 BB on the field, the game was virtually over by T4. To his credit it was a really good 1-land hand that he kept, full of abrupt decays, goyfs, a bob, and a thoughtseize. He thoughtseized away one of my very redundant BB (drew 3).
This deck is very good. It is unfortunate that after I made extra measures to increase the consistency of the deck I get some of the worst mana screw I have ever experienced in magic giving away my easy matchups for free basically. The comment among spectators all night was "wow, yeah... Bitterblossom is good" lol. The SB was very good, I didn't get a chance to use my 1-of Altar's Reap and 1-of Sword of Light and Shadow (slightly tweaked the list to try these cards). My feeling is still leaning towards Bad Moon being better than sword because its just so insane with bitterblossom. For now I will keep it as 1 of each though.
Nighthawk saved me from dying in full suicide mode a couple of times. The card needs to be answered on the spot or he just puts you too far ahead on life. Also blocks like a champ.
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
Sideboard I used:
3 Extirpate, 2 Duress, 2 Pithing Needle. Siding out various removal and percy.
Landing a T2 Bitterblossom on them after T1 discard is what makes this a good matchup for us. This is extremely hard for them to deal with. Electrolyze keeps us at bay, but mostly their win condition becomes snapcaster and bolt.
Extirpate is better than Surgical Extraction. No responses is really important...
Targets in this matchup include: Sphynx's Revelation, Electrolyze, Lightning Bolt, Cryptic Command. In that order. Possibly electrolyze first.
Pithing Needle on Clestial Colonnade, might not even need this with ghost quarter.
Never walk into a counterspell just to tap out. It is not worth it and they will out tempo you. Discard is key.
I had a discussion with the other player after we were done about bad moon vs sword of L+S. We both concluded that Bad moon was superior. With little to no opposing black creatures in the meta it rarely pumps opposing creatures. Late game topdecking it is usually a win on the spot. Early game it protects your stuff from things like electrolyze and lightning bolt. Miren, the moaning well can now sac a token for a profit every turn late game if needed. Also, your opponent has the awkward choice of killing either the bitterblossom or the bad moon when they topdeck their removal spell (Because you discarded before playing it).
Here is the most updated list I am running. I have determined that running 21 lands is fine.
4x Bitterblossom
4x Dark Confidant
3x Gatekeeper of Malakir
3x Vampire Nighthawk
3x Abyssal Persecutor
Spells (22):
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Thoughtseize
2x Funeral Charm
2x Wrench Mind
3x Victim of Night
1x Altar's Reap
2x Bad Moon
4x Liliana of the Veil
3x Ghost Quarter
2x Miren, the Moaning Well
4x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2x Bojuka Bog
10x Swamp
3x Extirpate
3x Pithing Needle
2x Crypt Incursion
2x Bile Blight
3x Deathmark
2x Duress
Mana Curve:
1cmc - 10
2cmc - 19
3cmc - 7
4cmc - 3
Avg Mana cost (without lands) is 2.08
Avg Mana cost (with lands) is 1.35 for Bob Flips.
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
4x Bitterblossom
4x Dark Confidant
3x Gatekeeper of Malakir
4x Tarmogoyf
3x Scavenging Ooze
Spells (20):
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Thoughtseize
3x Abrupt Decay
3x Victim of Night
2x Wrench Mind
4x Liliana of the Veil
4x Ghost Quarter
2x Marsh Flats
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Overgrown Tomb
3x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
6x Swamp
1x Forest
3x Deathmark
3x Extirpate
2x Pithing Needle
2x Bile Blight
3x Maelstrom Pulse
Call me obsessed, but I can't stop thinking about this deck...
sorry for the wall of text!
This version might be better in a bitterblossom meta or a meta with large amounts of Leyline of Sanctity
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
I do agree about bob removal, luckily we can get enough discard usually to help alleviate our weak points such as removal, though path, or other removal on our board state hurts hard.
As far as the fish matchup, that is great info thanks! I don't have much experience with fish and faeries which is why I crammed damnation maindeck though I would definitely move it to side board. As far as arena and sign in blood, I am considering both in bob's slot, though to gate players this is sacrilege, if you play with recur able threats like I do, then altar's reap is a good option as well. Your list actually looks kinda like the black devotion deck, which is not a bad thing at all. tendrils is a deceptive card though, I can't decide if I like it but I have never really felt it, or the variants of it. If you do testing let me know how it goes.
I think I am going to try out funeral charm and altar's reap. They do seem strong and funeral charm is a card I have always loved.
This is definitely a pet deck of mine as well. Been playing it forever even before it was even kinda viable. I haven't really worked on my sideboard much as I usually play this against the competitive decks after tournaments but I was mainly working on improving my game one, been too busy but recently had some free time in between crazy moments which is why my sideboard was so slapdashed. After a lot of testing, my matchups have improved a LOT. I am getting around a 3/4 win rate, but I am not having the same mana issues you seem to be, all my losses were just to simply better draws and top decks. I have never played against affinity with this though I doubt it would be an issue at all.
Extirpate is a really beastly card in so many matchups. Even control feels manageable as long as they don't top deck too lucky. I am still really tempted to try out phyrexian obliterator but Percy seems to be doing fine for me and I don't really wanna splurge on obliterators while they are so overpriced.
Splashing green is almost worth it just for abrupt decay. Gives us more options if they do get a combo piece or a pesky anything down. I don't know how I feel about goyf, but he is never really a BAD call. Every time I consider green I always want to throw the:
- raven's crime
- life from the loam
- smallpox
Type packages in though.I am beginning to wonder if we were to write a primer if we would get more interest going for this deck. I would love to see more traffic and comments then just the three of us with a few occasional passerby's. Could really help it a lot. We already got past the, "but legacy gate uses x" comments I feel. Hehe. This deck definitely feels competitive to me though so it might just be a matter of getting the right numbers down.
With that being said I have never had trouble sticking BB or Bob. Bitterblossom is easier because the removal is more specific so it usually comes down T2 followed by Lily, Gatekeeper, or Nighthawk. After we are about topdecking, thats when I play bob (unless my discard tells me I have nothing to worry about).
Based on the advice above, I am now switching between 2x Crypt Incursion and 2x Damnation in the SB depending on which meta I am walking into. Luckily, the meta with merfolk, lacks living end and the meta with living end lacks merfolk.
All in all, I have played against very few decks running abrupt decay after the DRS ban. Those that do usually blow up my BB, but that leaves me with tokens, so it's not a big deal. Sticking a bob requires a certain level of foresight that only comes with a ton of time dedicated to playing your deck. I assure you that removing bob is never a good thing and is in fact, sacrilege!
I have contemplated writing a primer. Does anyone know if we can just convert this thread or do I need to start a new one?
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
I think the only thing we are really worried about is removal, and honestly, every creature deck feels the same way. Jund has the same issue of people bolting their bob, same goes for every other deck running him. We are lucky in that we can run a much more proactive discard package though, so he is a LOT safer in our build I feel. Not to mention we buy so much time with removal and our three drops which are very good. Bob, is essential to our build and I am never happy when he does get top deck bolted, but I never feel like I am losing after he does. I am not going to cut it, I am just saying that we should be fine if they do top deck a removal spell. I have yet to play him before turn three or four honestly, as he just refills our hand so well after the opponent is top decking and we control the board.
As for drown in sorrow, I tried it out and was unimpressed. Hurts affinity slowly, I think but nothing else really. Might get you a few cards and tokens but I just never had luck. And like you said it is worthless against the deck it is most needed for, zoo. I think bile blight is just better in this deck for the occasional two for one, and it can token sweep if need be, buys a turn or kills twin depending on the creature they use though I doubt twin will be tapping out to double black open without protection.
As for the suicide damage from gb, I completely agree. If we had some form of lifegain, I would definitely think it was more viable, but nighthawk wouldn't be enough to recoup the damage reliably. Too bad there is no 3 damage pharika's cure type spell.
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
There is definitely a three drop issue in your deck, which I usually get around by maxing out my discard spells. Once you have wrecked their hand, just play 1 a turn - its not that big a deal. In your deck with the Nykthos, you shouldn't have too much of a problem. You want to slow the game down as much as possible and start playing difficult to kill devotion guys. Try Geralf's Messenger over Vampire Nighthawk.
Victim of night is the best removal spell to use for this deck IMO, and I would definitely use it over GftT (kills those pesky inkmoth nexus lol). Disfigure was never a good card in my testing. I either needed to do 3dmg or 1dmg, which is why I went to a mix of Victim of night and Funeral Charm (more versatile).
After thinking on it for a while I would make the following changes:
-4 Vampire Nighthawk
-1 Gary
-3 Wrench Mind
-4 Go for the throat
+3 Geralf's Messenger
+1 IoK
+1-2 Duress
+3 Victim of Night
+2-3 Profane Command
+1 Nykthos
+1 Swamp
Profane command lets you doing annoying and sometimes lethal things, targeted discard will help you with opposing removal spells and counters, and anything in general lol. You need something powerful to do with all that mana you can produce with Nykthos and I think profane command and Gary are it. WIth the lifegain from gary and resiliance and devotion from Geralf's Messenger, I don't see much advantage to running Vampire Nighthawk anyway.
Hope this helps! Let us know how your testing comes along.
On your side note - I don't think vampire tribal is the way to go here. Not enough synergy and I think the changes I am proposing here will help more with your game plan. Also, maybe test out an arena.
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague