Lately i've been very frustrated in the deck. Maybe its because i play a lot on Modo and only seem to see Burn and U Tron. Either Burn.. burns be or I cannot draw well against tron, even after SB. I have went to using 3 Dark Confidant. He has helped a lot with the extra draw and getting bolts out of my opponents hand. but sucks against burn. I will say it does quit well against the rest of Meta
Viridian Emissary was discussed a bit in the old thread. Most people decided that the extra power wasn't worth letting your opponent decide when you get a land.
Not really. Against an empty board, you swing for 2. Against a beater, you soak damage and get a land.
Sure, until you play against something like Tron or Scapeshift and they ignore your guy completely and laugh at your mana screw. Emissary works well with smallpox but that brings a whole new set of problems.
Burn and Tron are just part of modo cause they're cheap. Not much you can do about it except run an extra fulminator or two in the SB.
Viridian Emissary's problem is that he is way too inconsistent. Trust me the extra point of damage here and there rarely matters post Death Cloud when instead you want to hit all your land drops and ramp when you want to. If anything, you want to conserve your life total more. Dark Confidant is also risky because of the life loss. Resolving a Death Cloud means you need to have a reasonable life total remaining afterwards.
I would also like to point out Abzan Charm as a potential All-Star for those that are splashing white. I was hoping for a Common Bond type effect and an Unmake rolled into one. To get that and an instant speed Night's Whisper is like a wish come true. I have been having trouble with opposing Persist creatures like Kitchen Finks and larger beaters like Restoration Angel and to get a charm that has a mode to mediate that problem is amazing. Also I've cut Night's Whisper from my deck entirely because it was simply awkward to have in the early game. It messed with my deck's tempo and was often a dead card. Having the charm with those other options at instant speed makes it a much better card overall because of the added versatility.
Abzan Charm i feel is going to be amazing. it his a lot of our issues. Wurmcoil/all of trons creatures, Opposing Finks, resto angel, titans. That and splashing white opens so many better sideboard cards. Do u think charm should be a 1,2,3,4 of?
Abzan Charm i feel is going to be amazing. it his a lot of our issues. Wurmcoil/all of trons creatures, Opposing Finks, resto angel, titans. That and splashing white opens so many better sideboard cards. Do u think charm should be a 1,2,3,4 of?
I want to say it should be solid as a 2 of. From my list, I probably will move 1 of my 2 Maelstrom Pulse and only Slaughter Pact to the board. The more Pod decks I play, the less and less I like Maelstrom Pulse. I am beginning to favor Putrefy a lot more because it is able to hit Birthing Pod and a EOT Resto.
So this is my draft for Junk Cloud come KTK. Looking for thoughts on my mana base please? I find that the tapped lands expect Tree Top are slowing deck down and making it less consistant. With adding white i feel Voice is perfect. Makes them play on there turn and creates a token after cloud. Looking for help on expanding ideas for Junk Cloud. obviously white gets a lot of sideboard cards
What's the logic behind not running souls and only 2 copies of liliana? Voice is nice, but it's a bit do-nothing against some decks.
2 Urborg seems really awkward, imo its not necessary enough to make it worth drawing both of them. You've only got 9 white dources, which is low if you want to cast voice/sb cards on time. Easiest way to improve white sources is stirring wildwood over treetop. If you don't want to do that, you'll need more fetches.
For SB, stony silence is a certified good magic card
What do you do with the Grim Discovery? Loop Witnesses? Primal Command is a better standalone card.
1. Play a fetch.
2. Play Explore or Viridian Emissary.
3. Play Finks or whatever.
4. Sad Robot or whatever.
5. Death Cloud is brutal now.
6. Grim Discovery on the fetch and a critter.
7. Play Eternal Witness, get back Grim Discovery.
Congratulations, you control the game.
Not many postings from this thread recently. I haven't been able to play my deck as much recently because I've been busy with school. However, one of my friends suggested running Shadow of Doubt in the mainboard, which might be a good include as a 2 of. It can counter fetchland activations, which is important to get ahead on land count while at the same time delaying your opponent's plays. It is also good against Pod activations. Thoughts?
There are other cards that provide the same utility that Rosheen Meanderer does like Garruk Wildspeaker and Nissa, Worldwaker. The problem with Rosheen Meanderer is that he's too narrow as he basically requires you to sequence your plays into a Death Cloud. If that isn't the case, he's a 4 mana 4/4 which is simply not good enough for Modern.
I agree with DrewRealLee on Rosheen. If you are still finding you need more mana acceleration even after Garruk and Nissa I would run Signets over Rosheen.
Speaking of new cards I have been wondering about a minor blue splash for Treasure Cruise. Post Cloud it would allow us to recover a better for very little mana.
I am hoping I will be able to post some tournament results soon now that I have acquired all of the cards, thus far I have only been able to test against friends.
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In play: Jund Death Shadow, Grixis Control, Eldrazi Stompy, Ponza
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm
I would also be tempted to try Sultai Charm in the place of Putrefy as it is better 90% if the time (if it doesn't hurt the mana base too much), although it does give us one less answer to Celestial Colonnade, a card I have found I am very weak to.
I do like the idea of running Snappy. What ramp spell would be the replacement for Elder? I am thinking Farseek or maybe even up the land count and run Explore.
The other card I think might be interesting in a BUG build would be Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver. Post Cloud he can really put some pressure on your opponent by allowing you to play their own, bigger threats against them.
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In play: Jund Death Shadow, Grixis Control, Eldrazi Stompy, Ponza
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm
I would also be tempted to try Sultai Charm in the place of Putrefy as it is better 90% if the time (if it doesn't hurt the mana base too much), although it does give us one less answer to Celestial Colonnade, a card I have found I am very weak to.
I do like the idea of running Snappy. What ramp spell would be the replacement for Elder? I am thinking Farseek or maybe even up the land count and run Explore.
The other card I think might be interesting in a BUG build would be Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver. Post Cloud he can really put some pressure on your opponent by allowing you to play their own, bigger threats against them.
I'm of the opinion that BUG/Sultai is the direction to take this deck. It gives us the option to do the beautiful ramp-snap-ramp, into the butterfly tingling joy of Abrupt-Snap-Abrupt. We already had the fetches, but now we can drop the basics that were ran for Elder and arguably Delta is better than Misty. Fetching for black allows us to hit the heavy devotion needed for Lili and Cloud and if you run Nissa both can still fetch for forest shocks to hit that nuclear status if need be. Sultai Charm is awesome because it hits almost everything, and if it doesn't, you can loot. Against decks with creatures, Ashiok has to be the best walker for post-DC. You no longer have to worry about drawing into a threat / land to cast it, as you can just use your opponents. (Unlike Garruk, instead of vanilla tokens we will likely have a big beater or something with a useful effect.)
For me though, the decision comes down to Treasure Cruise or Hooting Mandrils. Cruise is awesome, draw 3 for as low as U is amazing, period. The apes, however, are also good at pre and post Cloud situations. They are 4/4 and have CMC > 3 so they pass the Bolt and Decay test, along with having Trample to stop pesky chump blocks. (Looking at you Lingering Souls.) They also have the potential to shrink an enemy Goyf if it really comes to that. I have a feeling that Cruise may be the better option though.
Red should be burn, Goblins, Dragons, draw/discard, and Standard-unplayable 5CMC cards with insane, lengthy effects that take 10 minutes to figure out what they do and another 20 to actually make their effects work on the field.
The mana base could do with a lot of work and I'm not sure how good the MB Ashiok will be. I'm not sure what blue adds to the sideboard so at this point I will keep it similar to most BG Cloud SB, however I might add some Krosan Grip if this Ascendancy Storm deck becomes a real thing.
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In play: Jund Death Shadow, Grixis Control, Eldrazi Stompy, Ponza
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm
I like the idea of getting rid of Finks as he has always been the least exciting card in the deck but by the same token he his life gain ability has been instrumental in a lot of match ups and I worry about lowering our creature count too much. Plus we take alot of damage off our mana base and even more if we start snapping Thoughtseizes back.
By the same token maybe we can afford to run some counter magic like Mana Leak in place of Finks? At least it won't be dead late game for us like it is for most control decks.
As for Ashiok, I agree that he is pretty bad pre-cloud however I am curious if his post cloud presence makes up for his lackluster performance early on. Especially as my meta can be very mid-range heavy.
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In play: Jund Death Shadow, Grixis Control, Eldrazi Stompy, Ponza
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm
I've given up on this deck until bannings, beating jeskai ascendancy and UR delver is basically impossible due to treasure cruise. We have no good answer for it, and even if you splash blue, they are a much better cruise deck than we are
As for Delver I admit I haven't tested against it but I played UR delver for quiet a while. Don't get me wrong TC has helped the deck alot but it but honestly the GlitterStorm deck is exactly the sort of deck that Delver preys on (given it's best match-ups were Eggs and Storm), once either the hate starts raining on it (or it gets banned) you will see a big drop in Delver's popularity.
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In play: Jund Death Shadow, Grixis Control, Eldrazi Stompy, Ponza
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm
The SB cards you list are nice, but you'd have to bring in a massive chunk of them to actually beat them, it's not like just lose to any single card, you're going to have to draw more disruption then they draw gas/answers, and they're playing with treasure cruise. It's not like we have that kind of SB space- people are still going to play affinity, pod, burn, scapeshift and tron, you kinda need something for all of them. UR delver is now horrendously bad, I was playing 4 anger, 2 night of souls betrayal, 4 decay, 4 liliana, 4 courser, 3 chandra, 4 bolt, 3 damnation and still consistently losing. They out attrition you, it's actually disgusting.
Delver is quite favoured against Jeskai Ascendancy, but that doesn't help us much. Incidentally, I am jumping to UR delver
I still love this deck to death, have almost the whole thing foiled out (seriously, foil NOSB are a myth), but fundamentally it's an attrition deck and it can't survive when your opponents are allowed to cast ancestral recall. Adding blue doesn't really fix the problem, either you warp your deck trying to cast a much, much slower cruise or you don't play treasure cruise and have the same problem (it's not like adding blue has never been tried before). I'll be back after bannings
Hiya folks, I used to play Chess's Chalice BGw Deathcloud deck back in the day. I've since lost the info of my old MTGsal account, but I'm back. Thought I was out of Modern for a while, I am excited to see a Death Cloud thread still lurking about.
It seems Chalice of the Void has been eschewed for other stuff, and the deck has taken a few turns from where it once was. While I do love me some Chalice of the Void, I went down the blue, non-Chalice road today.
Reading some of the lists on this new thread, there are many things going on. Some explanation of my card choices.
3x Death Cloud - 3 always felt the best, enough to draw them regularly, but not enough to frequently clog the hand. Drawing 2 or 3 can really put you in an awkward spot.
2x Snapcaster Mage and 4x Fulminator Mage - I wanted to play very few creatures, and the creature I did play would have to provide value even when they had the removal spell in hand. Kitchen Finks was an all star in BGw, but I thought double green might be awkward at times, so he didn't make the cut this time. Fulminator has more than enough targets right now in Modern. Pretty much everyone besides mono-red has good targets for him. It's nice that he can set you up to Death Cloud them to zero lands. And since we're playing so many sweet spells, Snapcaster is a perfect fit.
4x Serum Visions - This is a fairly slow build, with not much to do in the early turns. I already decided to play blue for Cruise and Snap, and Visions is a fine card for digging towards Cloud, or a Planeswalker, or whatever you need. Cheap to Snapcaster back, and fuel for Cruise, and just a way to spend early mana.
2x Treasure Cruise - This deck is good at putting cards in the graveyard. It's also really wants to see a lot of cards. Also, I heard someone say that Ancestral Recall was a good card, or something, so why not.
4x Farseek - I wanted to run something to ramp outside of Garruk. Color requirements are stiff so I didn't want run lots of basics, which means Sakura Tribe Elder was out. Abrupt decay and Tarmogoyf exist, so I didn't want Signets or Talismans. I also didn't want to risk getting screwed out of my 2nd land drop with Explore. Farseek gets the right dual for the situation, and can be Snapcastered.
The mana base - Honestly, pretty much thrown together. Lots of fetches and duals, a basic of each type to help vs. Blood Moon, filter lands to turn crappy colored mana into black mana, and a couple of man lands. I despise tapped lands, but this deck works pretty well with man lands, and black is so crucial that I didn't want to run a 2nd Treetop.
On to the games!
Round 1
Vs. Mono-red
Game 1. He doesn't get a very explosive draw. Turn 1 nothing, and I get Abrupt Decay and Snapcaster for Goblin Guide and Kiln Fiend. Liliana comes down and edicts, then makes him discard Blood Moon, then Garruk comes down, he's out of cards, and I attack him to death holding up Abrupt Decay.
Game 2. Much like game 1, no Lightning Bolts. I see a Pyromancer but I kill it before he makes any tokens. His draws were pretty bad, and cheap removal + Snapcaster owns his creatures.
Round 2
Vs. U/w Merfolk
Game 1. He wins the roll and starts with Aether Vial. Then Cursecatchers and Lords. His clock is pretty fast, and he Remands Garruk, I die. He says he thinks he knows what deck I'm playing, which I seriously doubt, cuz Death Cloud.
Game 2. Disfigure helps kill stuff, but again I'm too slow and die to the fish. Its about this point that I regret not putting Disfigure in the main, put they're in the board, so that's that.
Round 3
Vs. Mono-blue Merfolk
I can't remember the game score, but I win the match. Lots of removal and the Planeswalkers can do work against Merfolk when they resolve. At one point in game 2 or 3, he attacks a 3 loyalty Liliana with a 2/2 Mutavault. I had attacked with the Tar Pit, and had 3 mana up, which gives me enough for Snapcasted Disfigure. He vials in a Reej, but I have Slaughter Pact for it, which was awesome. I resolved a couple sick Death Clouds against him, and resolving big Death Clouds is a sweet feeling.
Round 4
Vs. UWr Control
Game 1. He wins the roll and counter/draws a Garruk with Cryptic. Dig Through Time, and Snapcaster let him counter my relevant stuff, and I get bolted and helixed, and eventually killed by Gideon.
Game 2. 4x Abrupt Decay out, 4x Wrench Mind in. I Thoughtseize a Spell Snare, and Wrench him on turn 2. I was planning on casting Fulminator Mage over a Liliana on turn 3, because I'd rather not let Liliana get countered. However, I draw a 2nd Liliana. Now I feel like I can bait the counter with Liliana, and still get both a Fulminator and Liliana. Everything goes according to plan, 1st Liliana gets countered, Fulminator hits a dual land, then I get to resolve the 2nd Liliana, and she leads me to victory.
Game 3. I keep a 1 lander that has Thoughtseize and Serum Visions, but the land is Overgrown Tomb. I rip a 2nd Serum Visions, and Thoughtseize him, to see Path, Bolt, Bolt, Mana Leak, Arid Mesa. I take the counter spell. He plays his Arid Mesa, I rip a fetch, go to 13, to cast Serum Visions off Watery Grave, draw Farseek and Scry Liliana + Damnation to the bottom (why the hell did I leave Damnation in, shoulda been swapped for Slaughter Pact for a Gideon and Celestial Colonade). My mana works out after Farseek + Scrying into 2 lands. I resolve Garruk, untap 2 lands, Farseek, and next turn I Death Cloud for 4, which leaves us with no hands, and no board... except for Garruk on 2 counters. He makes 2 beasts, and they kill him.
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So I'm back on the Death Cloud train. It worked pretty well for throwing the list together. I only saw Treasure Cruise a couple times, and one of those times was against Merfolk, where I cast it the turn before I died. I still think its a good fit at 2 or 3 if you're running blue. I really liked Serum Visions and Snapcaster all day. The sick value off Snapcaster is great, and 2 seems like a good number. Serum Visions was also awesome. The smoothing of the draws is certainly something Death Cloud can use, and I really like having turn 1 plays.
I do feel like this build could use a couple more cheap removal spells in the main. Disfigure feels like the best option, but I'm considering a Golgari Charm as well to get Bob, Affinity, and the random Enchantment like Pyromancer Ascension or Jeskai Ascendancy. When I decided to go blue, I thought about running counterspells like Mana Leak, Remand, or Spell Pierce but decided against it today, and I'll probably experiment with some number of them somewhere next time I play the deck.
That's all for now.
P.S. Chess, don't give up! Death Cloud needs you!
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Modern: BW Zombies / BGR Assault Loam / BUR Control
Legacy: GWB Maverick / UBR Delver / C Eldrazi
I don't get this Treasure Cruise hype and why people started splashing blue for it. Sure it's a fine card, but I honestly see no reason to splash blue. If it is working for you guys, I digress and won't argue with you. If you guys really are moving towards a blue splash, then maybe I can find sometime to add it to the original post when I'm not busy with schoolwork.
It's mainly because I tried a white splash last week for Abzan Charm and Lingering Souls and even with 7 fetches, my mana base felt super awkward. I mainly blame Nissa, Worldwaker for requiring my deck to have a set number of forests to take advantage of both her abilities. My B/G Death Cloud shell is pretty sound as is and doesn't need a new color splash.
Might be coming back to the game after about a 6 month break. This is the list I was running to quite a bit of success. Just looking for anything I could add to the main, and what a good board looks like for the current meta.
Viridian Emissary > Sakura-Tribe Elder. That one extra point of power is great when on the beatdown.
As stated above, Eternal Witness + Grim Discovery is a nice little engine.
The rest of the deck is self-explanatory.
Not really. Against an empty board, you swing for 2. Against a beater, you soak damage and get a land.
Burn and Tron are just part of modo cause they're cheap. Not much you can do about it except run an extra fulminator or two in the SB.
I would also like to point out Abzan Charm as a potential All-Star for those that are splashing white. I was hoping for a Common Bond type effect and an Unmake rolled into one. To get that and an instant speed Night's Whisper is like a wish come true. I have been having trouble with opposing Persist creatures like Kitchen Finks and larger beaters like Restoration Angel and to get a charm that has a mode to mediate that problem is amazing. Also I've cut Night's Whisper from my deck entirely because it was simply awkward to have in the early game. It messed with my deck's tempo and was often a dead card. Having the charm with those other options at instant speed makes it a much better card overall because of the added versatility.
Credit to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the Avatar & Miraculous Recovery for the Banner.
My 540 Card Cube (WIP)
I want to say it should be solid as a 2 of. From my list, I probably will move 1 of my 2 Maelstrom Pulse and only Slaughter Pact to the board. The more Pod decks I play, the less and less I like Maelstrom Pulse. I am beginning to favor Putrefy a lot more because it is able to hit Birthing Pod and a EOT Resto.
Credit to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the Avatar & Miraculous Recovery for the Banner.
My 540 Card Cube (WIP)
4 Kitchen Finks
3 Scavenging Ooze
3 Voice of Resurgence
Planeswalkers
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
2 Liliana of the Veil
Instants
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Abzan Charm
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Putrefy
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
3 Death Cloud
1 Maelstrom Pulse
Land
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Overgrown Tomb
3 Swamp
3 Treetop Village
3 Woodland Cemetery
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Marsh Flats
2 Forest
2 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
So this is my draft for Junk Cloud come KTK. Looking for thoughts on my mana base please? I find that the tapped lands expect Tree Top are slowing deck down and making it less consistant. With adding white i feel Voice is perfect. Makes them play on there turn and creates a token after cloud. Looking for help on expanding ideas for Junk Cloud. obviously white gets a lot of sideboard cards
2 Urborg seems really awkward, imo its not necessary enough to make it worth drawing both of them. You've only got 9 white dources, which is low if you want to cast voice/sb cards on time. Easiest way to improve white sources is stirring wildwood over treetop. If you don't want to do that, you'll need more fetches.
For SB, stony silence is a certified good magic card
1. Play a fetch.
2. Play Explore or Viridian Emissary.
3. Play Finks or whatever.
4. Sad Robot or whatever.
5. Death Cloud is brutal now.
6. Grim Discovery on the fetch and a critter.
7. Play Eternal Witness, get back Grim Discovery.
Congratulations, you control the game.
Credit to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the Avatar & Miraculous Recovery for the Banner.
My 540 Card Cube (WIP)
There are other cards that provide the same utility that Rosheen Meanderer does like Garruk Wildspeaker and Nissa, Worldwaker. The problem with Rosheen Meanderer is that he's too narrow as he basically requires you to sequence your plays into a Death Cloud. If that isn't the case, he's a 4 mana 4/4 which is simply not good enough for Modern.
Credit to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the Avatar & Miraculous Recovery for the Banner.
My 540 Card Cube (WIP)
Speaking of new cards I have been wondering about a minor blue splash for Treasure Cruise. Post Cloud it would allow us to recover a better for very little mana.
I am hoping I will be able to post some tournament results soon now that I have acquired all of the cards, thus far I have only been able to test against friends.
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm
I do like the idea of running Snappy. What ramp spell would be the replacement for Elder? I am thinking Farseek or maybe even up the land count and run Explore.
The other card I think might be interesting in a BUG build would be Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver. Post Cloud he can really put some pressure on your opponent by allowing you to play their own, bigger threats against them.
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm
I'm of the opinion that BUG/Sultai is the direction to take this deck. It gives us the option to do the beautiful ramp-snap-ramp, into the butterfly tingling joy of Abrupt-Snap-Abrupt. We already had the fetches, but now we can drop the basics that were ran for Elder and arguably Delta is better than Misty. Fetching for black allows us to hit the heavy devotion needed for Lili and Cloud and if you run Nissa both can still fetch for forest shocks to hit that nuclear status if need be. Sultai Charm is awesome because it hits almost everything, and if it doesn't, you can loot. Against decks with creatures, Ashiok has to be the best walker for post-DC. You no longer have to worry about drawing into a threat / land to cast it, as you can just use your opponents. (Unlike Garruk, instead of vanilla tokens we will likely have a big beater or something with a useful effect.)
For me though, the decision comes down to Treasure Cruise or Hooting Mandrils. Cruise is awesome, draw 3 for as low as U is amazing, period. The apes, however, are also good at pre and post Cloud situations. They are 4/4 and have CMC > 3 so they pass the Bolt and Decay test, along with having Trample to stop pesky chump blocks. (Looking at you Lingering Souls.) They also have the potential to shrink an enemy Goyf if it really comes to that. I have a feeling that Cruise may be the better option though.
4x Kitchen Finks
3x Snapcaster Mage
Instants
3x Abrupt Decay
2x Sultai Charm
Sorceries
1x Damnation
3x Death Cloud
2x Thoughtseize
3x Treasure Cruise
4x Farseek
2x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
3x Garruk Wildspeaker
3x Liliana of the Veil
Land
4x Polluted Delta
2x Misty Rainforest
3x Overgrown Tomb
3x Watery Grave
2x Swamp
1x Island
2x Forest
2x Treetop Village
1x Twilight Mire
1x Sunken Ruins
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Woodland Cemetery
1x Drowned Catacomb
The mana base could do with a lot of work and I'm not sure how good the MB Ashiok will be. I'm not sure what blue adds to the sideboard so at this point I will keep it similar to most BG Cloud SB, however I might add some Krosan Grip if this Ascendancy Storm deck becomes a real thing.
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm
By the same token maybe we can afford to run some counter magic like Mana Leak in place of Finks? At least it won't be dead late game for us like it is for most control decks.
I am thinking on testing out some of following in place of Finks and some other cards at some point:
Eternal Witness with and without Primal Command
Augur of Bolas
Rain of Tears main rather then side. Rain, Snap, Rain is probably too slow but hey, what the hell.
Scavenging Ooze
Mana Leak
Spell Pierce, Side board
As for Ashiok, I agree that he is pretty bad pre-cloud however I am curious if his post cloud presence makes up for his lackluster performance early on. Especially as my meta can be very mid-range heavy.
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm
Abrupt Decay
Thoughtseize/Inquisition of Kozilek/Duress
Golgari Charm
Chalice of the Void
Drown in Sorrow
Maelstrom Pulse
Krosan Grip
Phyrexian Revoker
Trinisphere
If you add blue we get a slew of good counter magic:
Mana Leak
Negate
Spell Pierce
Snapcaster Mage to replay our hate
Sultai Charm
Notion Thief (at a stretch)
We even have good options in other colours such as Eidolon of the Great Revel and Ethersworn Canonist
As for Delver I admit I haven't tested against it but I played UR delver for quiet a while. Don't get me wrong TC has helped the deck alot but it but honestly the GlitterStorm deck is exactly the sort of deck that Delver preys on (given it's best match-ups were Eggs and Storm), once either the hate starts raining on it (or it gets banned) you will see a big drop in Delver's popularity.
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm
The SB cards you list are nice, but you'd have to bring in a massive chunk of them to actually beat them, it's not like just lose to any single card, you're going to have to draw more disruption then they draw gas/answers, and they're playing with treasure cruise. It's not like we have that kind of SB space- people are still going to play affinity, pod, burn, scapeshift and tron, you kinda need something for all of them. UR delver is now horrendously bad, I was playing 4 anger, 2 night of souls betrayal, 4 decay, 4 liliana, 4 courser, 3 chandra, 4 bolt, 3 damnation and still consistently losing. They out attrition you, it's actually disgusting.
Delver is quite favoured against Jeskai Ascendancy, but that doesn't help us much. Incidentally, I am jumping to UR delver
I still love this deck to death, have almost the whole thing foiled out (seriously, foil NOSB are a myth), but fundamentally it's an attrition deck and it can't survive when your opponents are allowed to cast ancestral recall. Adding blue doesn't really fix the problem, either you warp your deck trying to cast a much, much slower cruise or you don't play treasure cruise and have the same problem (it's not like adding blue has never been tried before). I'll be back after bannings
It seems Chalice of the Void has been eschewed for other stuff, and the deck has taken a few turns from where it once was. While I do love me some Chalice of the Void, I went down the blue, non-Chalice road today.
Here's what I played today:
4x Fulminator Mage
4x Liliana of the Veil
3x Garruk Wildspeaker
4x Thoughtseize
4x Serum Visions
4x Farseek
4x Abrupt Decay
1x Damnation
3x Death Cloud
2x Treasure Cruise
3x Overgrown Tomb
2x Watery Grave
1x Breeding Pool
1x Swamp
1x Forest
1x Island
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Polluted Delta
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Woodland Cemetery
1x Drowned Catacomb
1x Hinterland Harbor
1x Twilight Mire
1x Sunken Ruins
1x Creeping Tar Pit
1x Treetop Village
4x Wrench Mind
1x Slaughter Pact
3x Disfigure
2x Threads of Disloyalty
4x Leyline of the Void
1x Hurkyl's Recall
Reading some of the lists on this new thread, there are many things going on. Some explanation of my card choices.
3x Death Cloud - 3 always felt the best, enough to draw them regularly, but not enough to frequently clog the hand. Drawing 2 or 3 can really put you in an awkward spot.
2x Snapcaster Mage and 4x Fulminator Mage - I wanted to play very few creatures, and the creature I did play would have to provide value even when they had the removal spell in hand. Kitchen Finks was an all star in BGw, but I thought double green might be awkward at times, so he didn't make the cut this time. Fulminator has more than enough targets right now in Modern. Pretty much everyone besides mono-red has good targets for him. It's nice that he can set you up to Death Cloud them to zero lands. And since we're playing so many sweet spells, Snapcaster is a perfect fit.
4x Serum Visions - This is a fairly slow build, with not much to do in the early turns. I already decided to play blue for Cruise and Snap, and Visions is a fine card for digging towards Cloud, or a Planeswalker, or whatever you need. Cheap to Snapcaster back, and fuel for Cruise, and just a way to spend early mana.
2x Treasure Cruise - This deck is good at putting cards in the graveyard. It's also really wants to see a lot of cards. Also, I heard someone say that Ancestral Recall was a good card, or something, so why not.
4x Farseek - I wanted to run something to ramp outside of Garruk. Color requirements are stiff so I didn't want run lots of basics, which means Sakura Tribe Elder was out. Abrupt decay and Tarmogoyf exist, so I didn't want Signets or Talismans. I also didn't want to risk getting screwed out of my 2nd land drop with Explore. Farseek gets the right dual for the situation, and can be Snapcastered.
The mana base - Honestly, pretty much thrown together. Lots of fetches and duals, a basic of each type to help vs. Blood Moon, filter lands to turn crappy colored mana into black mana, and a couple of man lands. I despise tapped lands, but this deck works pretty well with man lands, and black is so crucial that I didn't want to run a 2nd Treetop.
On to the games!
Round 1
Vs. Mono-red
Game 1. He doesn't get a very explosive draw. Turn 1 nothing, and I get Abrupt Decay and Snapcaster for Goblin Guide and Kiln Fiend. Liliana comes down and edicts, then makes him discard Blood Moon, then Garruk comes down, he's out of cards, and I attack him to death holding up Abrupt Decay.
Game 2. Much like game 1, no Lightning Bolts. I see a Pyromancer but I kill it before he makes any tokens. His draws were pretty bad, and cheap removal + Snapcaster owns his creatures.
Round 2
Vs. U/w Merfolk
Game 1. He wins the roll and starts with Aether Vial. Then Cursecatchers and Lords. His clock is pretty fast, and he Remands Garruk, I die. He says he thinks he knows what deck I'm playing, which I seriously doubt, cuz Death Cloud.
Game 2. Disfigure helps kill stuff, but again I'm too slow and die to the fish. Its about this point that I regret not putting Disfigure in the main, put they're in the board, so that's that.
Round 3
Vs. Mono-blue Merfolk
I can't remember the game score, but I win the match. Lots of removal and the Planeswalkers can do work against Merfolk when they resolve. At one point in game 2 or 3, he attacks a 3 loyalty Liliana with a 2/2 Mutavault. I had attacked with the Tar Pit, and had 3 mana up, which gives me enough for Snapcasted Disfigure. He vials in a Reej, but I have Slaughter Pact for it, which was awesome. I resolved a couple sick Death Clouds against him, and resolving big Death Clouds is a sweet feeling.
Round 4
Vs. UWr Control
Game 1. He wins the roll and counter/draws a Garruk with Cryptic. Dig Through Time, and Snapcaster let him counter my relevant stuff, and I get bolted and helixed, and eventually killed by Gideon.
Game 2. 4x Abrupt Decay out, 4x Wrench Mind in. I Thoughtseize a Spell Snare, and Wrench him on turn 2. I was planning on casting Fulminator Mage over a Liliana on turn 3, because I'd rather not let Liliana get countered. However, I draw a 2nd Liliana. Now I feel like I can bait the counter with Liliana, and still get both a Fulminator and Liliana. Everything goes according to plan, 1st Liliana gets countered, Fulminator hits a dual land, then I get to resolve the 2nd Liliana, and she leads me to victory.
Game 3. I keep a 1 lander that has Thoughtseize and Serum Visions, but the land is Overgrown Tomb. I rip a 2nd Serum Visions, and Thoughtseize him, to see Path, Bolt, Bolt, Mana Leak, Arid Mesa. I take the counter spell. He plays his Arid Mesa, I rip a fetch, go to 13, to cast Serum Visions off Watery Grave, draw Farseek and Scry Liliana + Damnation to the bottom (why the hell did I leave Damnation in, shoulda been swapped for Slaughter Pact for a Gideon and Celestial Colonade). My mana works out after Farseek + Scrying into 2 lands. I resolve Garruk, untap 2 lands, Farseek, and next turn I Death Cloud for 4, which leaves us with no hands, and no board... except for Garruk on 2 counters. He makes 2 beasts, and they kill him.
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So I'm back on the Death Cloud train. It worked pretty well for throwing the list together. I only saw Treasure Cruise a couple times, and one of those times was against Merfolk, where I cast it the turn before I died. I still think its a good fit at 2 or 3 if you're running blue. I really liked Serum Visions and Snapcaster all day. The sick value off Snapcaster is great, and 2 seems like a good number. Serum Visions was also awesome. The smoothing of the draws is certainly something Death Cloud can use, and I really like having turn 1 plays.
I do feel like this build could use a couple more cheap removal spells in the main. Disfigure feels like the best option, but I'm considering a Golgari Charm as well to get Bob, Affinity, and the random Enchantment like Pyromancer Ascension or Jeskai Ascendancy. When I decided to go blue, I thought about running counterspells like Mana Leak, Remand, or Spell Pierce but decided against it today, and I'll probably experiment with some number of them somewhere next time I play the deck.
That's all for now.
P.S. Chess, don't give up! Death Cloud needs you!
Legacy: GWB Maverick / UBR Delver / C Eldrazi
It's mainly because I tried a white splash last week for Abzan Charm and Lingering Souls and even with 7 fetches, my mana base felt super awkward. I mainly blame Nissa, Worldwaker for requiring my deck to have a set number of forests to take advantage of both her abilities. My B/G Death Cloud shell is pretty sound as is and doesn't need a new color splash.
Credit to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the Avatar & Miraculous Recovery for the Banner.
My 540 Card Cube (WIP)
5 Swamp
2 Forest
2 Overgrown Tomb
4 Verdant Catacomb
2 Marsh Flats
4 Treetop Village
2 Twilight Mire
2 Woodland Cemetery
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Kitchen Finks
2 Eternal Witness
Spells 22
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Damnation
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Putrefy
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
3 Death Cloud