Also without a looting or a zombie infestation you really are not doing a whole lot. If you expect a meta filled with creature decks then this is a good choice, otherwise I would try something different.
Just goldfishing the deck I feel that there are issues when you don't draw Zombie Infestation, which puts you in the awkward position of not being able to Dredge until you find one. What is the way of winning if you don't get a ZI online?
If you don't get a zombie infestation or a looting, you're not in a good place. From this situation, I usually just cast loam and either get enough cards in my hand to discard what I need to or start casting/dredging loam to try and hit what I need.
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Come watch me stream over at my twitch channel. I play Loam Pox, Ad Nauseam, and jank in modern on MTGO.
This deck is tons of fun to play, but I'm having massive problems vs. turn 1 Thoughtseize: grab your Infestation. It's not so bad vs. Abzan because smallpox is a house, but there is both a jund player and W/b tokens player in my meta; I cannot keep up with either resource-wise while digging for a replacement infestation. I've been toying with dropping the count to 3 in the main but adding 2-3 shred memory, or maybe leaving it @ 4 and having 2 memory in the board replacing Leyline of the Void and having it to tutor with. Mostly I want redundancy, and I can't think of any other free-discard for value effect other than the impossible-to-cast seismic assault. Halp pls.
Also - what is everyone else's matchup vs. robots look like? Both affinity players I know have 3 welding jars in their 75 to protect cranial plating and the 1 of graftdigger's cage, and I have died more than a few times running out of mana while digging for the 2nd A.grudge. What do?
I'm glad this thread is here. Been looking for somewhere to talk about the list.
I saw the deck on MTGOgoldfish a while back and have started playing on MTGO.
I feel like Smallpox, though the namesake of the deck, doesn't do enough, and also strains the mana something dire. Shocking to play it is supremely feelbad against anything fast, and really doesn't do all that much against a lot of decks. Am I pulling the trigger too fast? Is it always right to jam it turn 2?
Once the ball gets rolling, you just feel invincible with this deck, and discard really stops being a problem, as does control, which feels lovely. I love the deck. I do run Young Pyromancer alongside the other wincons which feels very right. Retrace is so big time with young peezy.
"Fun is subjective; for some people it's Tarmogoyf, for others it's Lightning Bolt or Nephalia Drownyard or Emrakul, and the people who find fun in Past in Flames or Second Sunrise are just as correct as anyone else." u/ThisRedRock
I'm beginning to think pox turn 2 is generally at its best vs infect or mana dork decks.
I like the idea of young pyromancer, but am reluctant to put in creatures you can't bring back. Dredge and Retrace are definitely mechanics that synergize well with Young Pyro, but answering Infestation requires them to to have abrupt decay or the right answers for enchantments. Pyro seems a little too soft.
I think his version 4 of the deck answers the problems that I was finding with the deck, though I'm hesitant to remove LotV completely. I think 23 lands is necessary, because you want a decent chance to draw into lands naturally.
If there was a cheap, reliable, recurrable way to bring pyromancer back from.the grave I would support it 100%. Maybe it is playable, but I don't want a wincon that dies to deck variance.
I think I could get behind siphon life though as a one of though.
It's an absolute blast to play, and really strong. Been playing 2x Syphon Life over the Golgari Brownscale and Flame Jab and they've been working out very well for me.
Pretty stock at the moment. Haven't found myself wanting anything different yet. I'll probably start tuning once I play it on paper more (that'll only be next week).
I took this list to a 4-1-1 in the Sunday Modern Swiss at GP Cleveland. I had a bye, but my match-ups were UWR Control, BG Rock, Abzan Junk, 8 Rack, and UWR Tempo. I feel like the deck is in a good spot for sure, but it is not the easiest thing to play and I did have an unintentional draw, not due to play speed but length of games. I was two turns from winning though, most of my threats were tied up by a Jace, AoT which is disgustingly good against us, but flame jabbed it down on turn 3 of turns, and he had no gas from crimes etc. I could do a more detailed write up if there is a desire for it, but I am now about 150 matches into the deck and have won multiple 20+ people events locally, and think it is a strong deck in the current meta even with its sometimes dubious Burn and Affinity matchups.
GY hate is super meta dependent, and with everyone packing a ton of spots to fight burn right now, and without a GY deck being on the forethought of people's minds it is usually absent these days from what I have seen. Obviously if it is all over the place you should not be playing this deck but it can fight through hate. I won a game against Abzan Junk with a T2 Rest in Peace just simply overwhelming them with spirits and zombies early. The deck can be deceptively aggressive, pitching 6 cards to a T2 Infestion end of their turn is not an uncommon play for me.
Honestly, Thoughseize/IoK or Spell Snare maindeck is more concerning to me than RiP in a few boards theses days.
Lightning Bolt has no place in our deck, it is low impact for a non dredge spell and we have reach in other ways.
While you are right that we do not cantrip, we do however have 4 Faithless Lootings and if you pitch a Bloodghast and a Pharaoh, or any of our recursion spells it might as well read R: Draw two cards.
I do not think Liliana is very good at all right now with Lingering Souls running around, but she is good enough for a one of in the maindeck. I board her out a lot though.
Pithing needle is a terrible answer to both of those cards. If Tron has already reached that state of their gameplan, we have probably lost already. Gameplan against tron is Ghost Quarter or bust basically, with Small Pox and Raven's Crime supporting it. I go back and forth in the board between 2 Damnations and 2 Stony Silences all the time, and I might go back to Silence since it hits affinity as well as Tron. But never Pithing Needle.
Because we have a ton of good relevant MUs as well. Great Twin MU, UWR Matchup, and any Zoo or midrange deck just loses to Pharaoh barring an unanswered Ooze. Our Burn matchup is OK, G1 can be rough but Infestation is a house, and they cannot beat a brownscale draw easily G2 and G3. Tron is all about the draws, and against random decks, Raven's Crime plays the role of fun police.
So, I have decided since my meta is very GY lite (There is exactly one person playing Living End, that is it) that I would be OK conceding to other GY based strategies. They have an excellent matchup anyways and I cannot justify the extra board slots to either Bog or Leyline of the Void. So my updated list is such:
I went 3-1 last week in a 16 man event and took third, losing to only the person who won.
Match 1: 0-2 Bogles
I lost this game mainly because I had to mull to 5, and then g2 mull to 6 and had to keep a mediocre hand. This match-up is usually fantastic, but I did not see Liliana's or smallpox, and my opponent played with 7 cards both games.
Match 2: 2-0 Elves
Opening hand dark blast into zombie infestation seals game one quickly. Game 2 I have Liliana/Damnation other cards. He extends onto the board and gets blown out by T4 Damnation, and cannot beat the resolved Liliana after that.
Match 2: 2-0 UWR Control
This matchup is easily one of our best, and Raven's Crime is unbeatable against them, barring some weird aggresive draw. A resolved Zombie Infestation is game over about 90% of the time too, since they have no good ways to interact with your loam engine. Brought in the Rays game 2 and sniped a T2 Rest in Peace. Closed quickly after that.
Match 3: 2-0 Abzan Junk
Game one he could not beat the value train of vengeful pharaoh in the yard with lingering souls blocking to make attacking a nightmare. Game 2 he found an early Scavenging ooze and the game went long, I did not see my damnations that would have won on the spot but eventually killed the ooze, and tectonic edged him to the three land softlock and ground him to dust.
Honestly the deck is strong, but requires a ton of time invested since you need to know all of your lines. The deck is prone to going to time if you do not, or play slowly at all. Make sure you devise a system so you do not miss bloodghast/squee triggers. Do not be afraid to dump your hand to Zombie infestation EoT, that play is surprisingly hard for many decks to deal with, and many of your cards are playable from the yard or can be reoccurred.
Played a game against Tokens tonight and despite a turn 1 Thoughtseize grabbing my looting and him discarding a Lingering Souls to my Smallpox, I was able to stabilize and beat in the air. Didn't find a Loam til the very end.
I don't have anything to add to the discussion except that I've been accumulating the cards for this. Hopefully enemy fetches will get reprinted and their prices driven down, because other than Bloodghast and the lands, this deck is pretty cheap. And there is no better feeling than dropping a Smallpox when it doesn't do much to hurt you at all.
EDIT And today I picked up 4 Bloodghast at my LGS and ordered the rest, except the enemy fetches. See you all in two weeks once they come in.
I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: URDelver
Modern: UGRDelver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
So, I have decided since my meta is very GY lite (There is exactly one person playing Living End, that is it) that I would be OK conceding to other GY based strategies. They have an excellent matchup anyways and I cannot justify the extra board slots to either Bog or Leyline of the Void. So my updated list is such:
I am using this as sort of a guide for the version I'm building. My removal suite is a bit different, and I don't have Lilianas, but pretty similar overall.
So with only 4 fetches currently, what should I run until I get some more? I added in 1 Swamp, 2 Blackcleave Cliffs, and 2 Woodland Cemetery, but am not sure that's a good mix.
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I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: URDelver
Modern: UGRDelver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
Well the recent lists that have been popping up on mtgtop8 haven't been using Catacombs (for budget reasons like you and I, I'm guessing), here are a couple of their lists:
Looks like they're basically just using a bunch of Wooded Foothills/Bloodstained Mires to make up for the lack of Catacombs. I would be careful about running too many "comes into play tapped" lands, no more than 2 I think.
Honestly you guys don't lose a whole lot by running Deltas over the Catacombs, you're still able to fetch everything except basic Forest and your 1x Stomping Grounds. I would recommend Deltas in place of Catacombs over Foothills for this reason. If Foothills are all that's available, the damage you take may justify adding another Brownscale to the main, but Deltas are ideal.
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Just goldfishing the deck I feel that there are issues when you don't draw Zombie Infestation, which puts you in the awkward position of not being able to Dredge until you find one. What is the way of winning if you don't get a ZI online?
Also - what is everyone else's matchup vs. robots look like? Both affinity players I know have 3 welding jars in their 75 to protect cranial plating and the 1 of graftdigger's cage, and I have died more than a few times running out of mana while digging for the 2nd A.grudge. What do?
I saw the deck on MTGOgoldfish a while back and have started playing on MTGO.
I feel like Smallpox, though the namesake of the deck, doesn't do enough, and also strains the mana something dire. Shocking to play it is supremely feelbad against anything fast, and really doesn't do all that much against a lot of decks. Am I pulling the trigger too fast? Is it always right to jam it turn 2?
Once the ball gets rolling, you just feel invincible with this deck, and discard really stops being a problem, as does control, which feels lovely. I love the deck. I do run Young Pyromancer alongside the other wincons which feels very right. Retrace is so big time with young peezy.
And Vengeful Pharaoh has killed so many goyfs it's hilarious.
u/ThisRedRock
I like the idea of young pyromancer, but am reluctant to put in creatures you can't bring back. Dredge and Retrace are definitely mechanics that synergize well with Young Pyro, but answering Infestation requires them to to have abrupt decay or the right answers for enchantments. Pyro seems a little too soft.
I think his version 4 of the deck answers the problems that I was finding with the deck, though I'm hesitant to remove LotV completely. I think 23 lands is necessary, because you want a decent chance to draw into lands naturally.
If there was a cheap, reliable, recurrable way to bring pyromancer back from.the grave I would support it 100%. Maybe it is playable, but I don't want a wincon that dies to deck variance.
I think I could get behind siphon life though as a one of though.
It's an absolute blast to play, and really strong. Been playing 2x Syphon Life over the Golgari Brownscale and Flame Jab and they've been working out very well for me.
Congrats Prince on your victory
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/daily-deck/modern-loam-pro-tour-fate-reforged-2015-03-12
1 Golgari Brownscale
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
2 Vengeful Pharaoh
4 Zombie Infestation
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Darkblast
1 Go for the Throat
1 Murderous Cut
1 Terminate
1 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Forest
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Godless Shrine
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Verdant Catacomb
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Faithless Looting
1 Flame Jab
4 Life from the Loam
4 Lingering Souls
2 Raven's Crime
3 Smallpox
1 Vengeful Pharaoh
4 Ancient Grudge
1 Darkblast
2 Ray of Revelation
2 Bojuka Bog
2 Damnation
1 Raven's Crime
I took this list to a 4-1-1 in the Sunday Modern Swiss at GP Cleveland. I had a bye, but my match-ups were UWR Control, BG Rock, Abzan Junk, 8 Rack, and UWR Tempo. I feel like the deck is in a good spot for sure, but it is not the easiest thing to play and I did have an unintentional draw, not due to play speed but length of games. I was two turns from winning though, most of my threats were tied up by a Jace, AoT which is disgustingly good against us, but flame jabbed it down on turn 3 of turns, and he had no gas from crimes etc. I could do a more detailed write up if there is a desire for it, but I am now about 150 matches into the deck and have won multiple 20+ people events locally, and think it is a strong deck in the current meta even with its sometimes dubious Burn and Affinity matchups.
Honestly, Thoughseize/IoK or Spell Snare maindeck is more concerning to me than RiP in a few boards theses days.
While you are right that we do not cantrip, we do however have 4 Faithless Lootings and if you pitch a Bloodghast and a Pharaoh, or any of our recursion spells it might as well read R: Draw two cards.
What problem does Pithing Needle solve for us?
Pithing needle is a terrible answer to both of those cards. If Tron has already reached that state of their gameplan, we have probably lost already. Gameplan against tron is Ghost Quarter or bust basically, with Small Pox and Raven's Crime supporting it. I go back and forth in the board between 2 Damnations and 2 Stony Silences all the time, and I might go back to Silence since it hits affinity as well as Tron. But never Pithing Needle.
Because we have a ton of good relevant MUs as well. Great Twin MU, UWR Matchup, and any Zoo or midrange deck just loses to Pharaoh barring an unanswered Ooze. Our Burn matchup is OK, G1 can be rough but Infestation is a house, and they cannot beat a brownscale draw easily G2 and G3. Tron is all about the draws, and against random decks, Raven's Crime plays the role of fun police.
1 Golgari Brownscale
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
2 Vengeful Pharaoh
4 Zombie Infestation
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Darkblast
1 Go for the Throat
1 Murderous Cut
1 Terminate
1 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Forest
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Godless Shrine
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Verdant Catacomb
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Faithless Looting
1 Flame Jab
4 Life from the Loam
4 Lingering Souls
2 Raven's Crime
3 Smallpox
1 Vengeful Pharaoh
4 Ancient Grudge
1 Darkblast
2 Ray of Revelation
1 Smallpox
2 Damnation
1 Raven's Crime
1 Liliana of the Veil
I went 3-1 last week in a 16 man event and took third, losing to only the person who won.
Match 1: 0-2 Bogles
I lost this game mainly because I had to mull to 5, and then g2 mull to 6 and had to keep a mediocre hand. This match-up is usually fantastic, but I did not see Liliana's or smallpox, and my opponent played with 7 cards both games.
Match 2: 2-0 Elves
Opening hand dark blast into zombie infestation seals game one quickly. Game 2 I have Liliana/Damnation other cards. He extends onto the board and gets blown out by T4 Damnation, and cannot beat the resolved Liliana after that.
Match 2: 2-0 UWR Control
This matchup is easily one of our best, and Raven's Crime is unbeatable against them, barring some weird aggresive draw. A resolved Zombie Infestation is game over about 90% of the time too, since they have no good ways to interact with your loam engine. Brought in the Rays game 2 and sniped a T2 Rest in Peace. Closed quickly after that.
Match 3: 2-0 Abzan Junk
Game one he could not beat the value train of vengeful pharaoh in the yard with lingering souls blocking to make attacking a nightmare. Game 2 he found an early Scavenging ooze and the game went long, I did not see my damnations that would have won on the spot but eventually killed the ooze, and tectonic edged him to the three land softlock and ground him to dust.
Honestly the deck is strong, but requires a ton of time invested since you need to know all of your lines. The deck is prone to going to time if you do not, or play slowly at all. Make sure you devise a system so you do not miss bloodghast/squee triggers. Do not be afraid to dump your hand to Zombie infestation EoT, that play is surprisingly hard for many decks to deal with, and many of your cards are playable from the yard or can be reoccurred.
TLDR: This deck got there from WAY behind.
EDIT And today I picked up 4 Bloodghast at my LGS and ordered the rest, except the enemy fetches. See you all in two weeks once they come in.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
I am using this as sort of a guide for the version I'm building. My removal suite is a bit different, and I don't have Lilianas, but pretty similar overall.
However, for fetches I've only got 3 Wooded Foothills and 1 Bloodstained Mire. I'll be picking more Mires up at my local place when I see them, but the Verdant Catacombs are out of budget for now.
So with only 4 fetches currently, what should I run until I get some more? I added in 1 Swamp, 2 Blackcleave Cliffs, and 2 Woodland Cemetery, but am not sure that's a good mix.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=9406&d=253953&f=MO
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=9369&d=253690&f=MO
Looks like they're basically just using a bunch of Wooded Foothills/Bloodstained Mires to make up for the lack of Catacombs. I would be careful about running too many "comes into play tapped" lands, no more than 2 I think.