@ElvesotShelves I don't think you should play only 4 racks. There are green 8 rack decks around so I would look at those if you want to go that route with the deck. I can find one if you're interested. I have some experience with mono black 8 rack and I don't really foresee Loam being all that useful in the deck. You don't need to splash for removal because Inquisition and Thoughtseize are good enough catch-alls.
@Danr2000, @twakatsonic Not sure what your issue is with us discussing an alternative Loam Pox deck... (besides the general rudeness in the air...) I don't want to play BG Rock and I think Loam Pox offers a lot of value that BG Rock doesn't generate. I think in general the posters here are underestimating the value of Smallpox. Also, I counted, my posted list (which admittedly was just a spit ball of an idea) shares about 30 cards with this BG Rock deck... so it's very different even if it has a similar plan.
I don't understand the bickering guys. Everyone's allowed to build and test whatever they want. The way I see it, there's three parts of the title Raphael Levy, Loam, and Pox. Jund people are still following 2/3 of the title (Levy and Loam) and BG people are following another 2/3 (Loam and Pox). So both decks belong here. Neither are tier 1 so I don't think it's a big deal.
@Old_bag_o_bones I apologise, my replies were not meant to be directed at you. I am more than happy to discuss different deck lists on this forum, as long as the posters are not being rude and trying to kick everyone else out of the forum.
What I was trying to say is that I am worried that by not including faithless looting, one of the best cards in the deck, we end up with a deck which is a strictly worse version of a more popular and competitive deck.
An example of this would be when I tried prized amalgam+ some unearth creatures in my deck (after Levy suggested it in one of his articles). The deck played pretty well but when I thought about it, my deck looked very similar to tier one modern dredge lists at the time. I had essentially turned the deck into a slower and strictly worse version of the modern dredge deck.
I now use driven // despair because it makes the deck more scary when you threaten to discard an opponent's hand with your bloodghasts and tokens, but you can still grind the opponent out in the late-game with squee and zombie infestation. The deck now looks much different to dredge, and has the ability to play through some forms of graveyard hate and still win (which modern dredge cannot do).
However, if you do manage to make a really good BG loam deck, I'd be more than happy to buy the required cards and test it at a local tournament.
Anyway, changing the subject, what are you guys including in your sideboards nowadays? My sideboard is currently:
@Danr2000 ah, sorry, I misinterpreted some of what you were saying as being directed at me.
I understand that Faithless looting is an important card (and a very powerful card!) to the current deck you guys are discussing, I'm suggesting a very different deck though, one based a little less on the graveyard. I feel like graveyard hate may be on the rise again and I don't like being stuck under graveyard hate that I have to fight out of with cards like Ray of Revelation. The pros and cons of that can be discussed, but it's just not what I want personally.
I totally get the comparison to BG rock, but I wouldn't say strictly worse version. Clearly that has yet to be seen since it's an untested idea.
I looked into building the deck but the verdant catacombs are out of my price range right now unfortunately... and I don't think the deck functions very well without on-color fetches. Bloodmoon is pretty big right now so skimping on fetches could be really bad. So I probably won't be testing the deck anytime soon. Maybe in a couple months or something. But I'll update you guys if that changes.
For the record, deck evolution doesn't mean a thread has been hijacked. Decks grow and evolve over time. That's just how Magic works. The community deemed that the lists they are discussing belong here, it is not up to the mods to decide how that gets split in this situation. There's nothing wrong with playing older builds of the deck, but understand that decks evolve to fit the current meta.
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(Minor note that Despair is also very good at pushing through damage in clogged or Wurmcoil boards.)
For graveyard protection, I'm a currently favoring 3x Grudge + 2x Ray + 3x Nature's Claim (one more slot than yours). I like Claim a lot, because:
a) I can board them blind in every matchup I have reason to doubt that the opponent is running the mainstream type of hate.
b) On the play, it's a work-around to Leyline of the Void into turn discard. Also, getting to play 5 enchantment removal effects provides some further insulation vs discard even on the draw.
c) I can go turn 1 kill your hate/Hollow One, turn 2 infestation, which feels almost equally powerful to turn 1 thoughtseize into clock, which can also be used reactively, e.g. after a desperate looting on turn 3.
- 2x Memory's Journey feels just right. This card is randomly amazing: I bring in at least one blindly against every snapcaster deck (also protects us from surgicals, which snapcaster decks tend to run) and works with the maindeck Bog to shut most their value engines down. It has many powerful applications, but is not consistent enough as a turn 2 hate to warrant more copies.
- Although I haven't tested this in particular, I believe Pharaoh is not worthy as sideboard material, because it's good mostly when the poor opponent is forced to grind through him without GY hate. Otherwise, they can afford to sit back a bit.
- Since I've migrated to the thinking of aggressively blocking if I'm even slightly ahead on tempo and have an engine going (including Imp and Squee hardcasts to stall the board), I've found Brownscale much weaker than I used to. Very rarely, I do miss the 2 maindeck copies I used to run, but most often I'm thankful to be able to dredge 5 or get Pharaoh kills and such. Perhaps we only need only 2-3 copies total (and at most 1 main), because the matchup I'm most interested in running it is burn and that's seeing less play.
What cards do you usually take out when boarding in graveyard protection?
Hey everyone, I'm a Legacy player and a bunch of my friends are starting to get into Modern, so I'm trying to find a deck I might enjoy if I start playing with them. I haven't played Modern for 2+ years but I used to really enjoy playing Levy's deck. I still have all the cards from the old deck (mostly in foil, too!) and was wondering if anyone could point me in the direction of some matchup guides or stock lists. I realise that this deck is very niche now so there probably aren't many people playing it, but if anyone has any wisdom they can dispense I'd definitely appreciate it.
If I can put together a new version of the deck I'm eager to start contributing!
Maybe I should start with some of the obvious observations! So Smallpox isn't worth it in this meta? No complaints here - makes the mana a lot nicer if we aren't straining to hit BB on 2. How come we don't play Flame Jab or Raven's Crime any more? Did Molten Vortex do much to change the deck? Would love to hear more about the list I saw a couple of pages ago with Trade Routes in it as well. What are people's thoughts about the MUs with the common decks right now (jeskai, humans, tron, affinity, etc)?
@Danr2000 ah, sorry, I misinterpreted some of what you were saying as being directed at me.
I understand that Faithless looting is an important card (and a very powerful card!) to the current deck you guys are discussing, I'm suggesting a very different deck though, one based a little less on the graveyard. I feel like graveyard hate may be on the rise again and I don't like being stuck under graveyard hate that I have to fight out of with cards like Ray of Revelation. The pros and cons of that can be discussed, but it's just not what I want personally.
I totally get the comparison to BG rock, but I wouldn't say strictly worse version. Clearly that has yet to be seen since it's an untested idea.
I looked into building the deck but the verdant catacombs are out of my price range right now unfortunately... and I don't think the deck functions very well without on-color fetches. Bloodmoon is pretty big right now so skimping on fetches could be really bad. So I probably won't be testing the deck anytime soon. Maybe in a couple months or something. But I'll update you guys if that changes.
The thing with Looting is (or in general with Looting effects), that it allows you to ditch dead cards in your hand (similar to what Lili does) while getting new value. Faithless Looting is just the best one we have in Modern (and probably it is the best Looting spell in the whole game due to Flashback). Ditching two IoK/Thoughtseize/Brutality/co (or rather dead cards at that point in time) to draw two new ones is REALLY good.
The question is rather, what a R splash offers besides Looting and here it looks rather grim. Bolt is kinda meh when you are already packing so much removal while not needing any range (realistically), the R finishers are mostly meh (no good Walkers with a single R, the good Dragons are costly, clunky, affected by otherwise dead cards, and there are no "alternative" wincons) and even BBE doesn't do anything what we would want in this deck. Only Blightning looks kinda sexy but is most likely an overkill .Hence, a R splash would most likely be only for Looting (and MAYBE 1-2 Tormenting Voice/Dreadbore (out vs Planeswalkers)). All other Red Goodies are costing double R which is just not doable when playing with Pox (you want R/B, BB or Gx or RB, into BBx or GBx).
However, I agree with your assessment, that Blood Moon would just destroy that deck.
Hey everyone, I'm a Legacy player and a bunch of my friends are starting to get into Modern, so I'm trying to find a deck I might enjoy if I start playing with them. I haven't played Modern for 2+ years but I used to really enjoy playing Levy's deck. I still have all the cards from the old deck (mostly in foil, too!) and was wondering if anyone could point me in the direction of some matchup guides or stock lists. I realise that this deck is very niche now so there probably aren't many people playing it, but if anyone has any wisdom they can dispense I'd definitely appreciate it.
If I can put together a new version of the deck I'm eager to start contributing!
Maybe I should start with some of the obvious observations! So Smallpox isn't worth it in this meta? No complaints here - makes the mana a lot nicer if we aren't straining to hit BB on 2. How come we don't play Flame Jab or Raven's Crime any more? Did Molten Vortex do much to change the deck? Would love to hear more about the list I saw a couple of pages ago with Trade Routes in it as well. What are people's thoughts about the MUs with the common decks right now (jeskai, humans, tron, affinity, etc)?
Hey man!
Just read the last 4-5 pages and your are basically up to date with the deck. As you already have seen, not many players mean no true stock list. However, both @Danr2000 as @maniospas are the main players from this deck and thus the respective lists with which you should get started.
Why no Flame Jab/Raven's Wing? They are both clunky and win more, so usually overkill and thus see close to no play (also the mana base is kinda iffy with them). Molten Vortex no longer sees any (real) play due to the same reasons, clunkyness. Infestation does just so much more.
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I’d post my sideboard for my assault loam list, but it’s very build dependent. I have 2 grafdigger’s cage in it since storm feels impossible. I’ve also been using 2 grim lavamancers recently for the faster aggro.
I feel weird plugging my list now, but part of why I pursued the hollow one package in the first place was to make graveyard hate less effective. Running more ways to filter through the deck without the GY and fewer graveyard-only-relevant cards like pharaoh opens up sideboard slots otherwise needed to fight hate.
For the record, deck evolution doesn't mean a thread has been hijacked. Decks grow and evolve over time. That's just how Magic works. The community deemed that the lists they are discussing belong here, it is not up to the mods to decide how that gets split in this situation. There's nothing wrong with playing older builds of the deck, but understand that decks evolve to fit the current meta.
Then change the name of the thread because people will search for loam pox and get a pleasant surprise.
The trade-off is that you lose the previous information gathered about loam pox, why it failed. What people exploring it, could learn from it.
Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but you can build a deck around pox. It has a drawback. The meta says otherwise with stuff like pyro, lingering, white tokens in general. But you can build a deck around any card with a drawback. And that's pox, even though loam is easier to build around.
I already suggested to split this thread where it changed to save both parties...
But I'm not a mod, it's not my job, what do I know?
Dredge Knight was a deck I messed around with in the Pod/Twin area. I liked the ability to land toolbox a bit better, running stuff like quicksand. The creature suite ended up feeling too slow most of the time, and without red haakan in hand was much worse. If the meta shifts to more control it might be a little better.
Hoogland did a video on the Jund Haakon Loam deck recently, although he called it Abzan Loam Pox. Deck performed very well, and Jeff was really enjoying it. You can catch the vod on his youtube channel if you'd like to see it in action. I'd definitely play it if Lilianas and Verdants weren't so expensive.
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Well, I can saw a woman in two, but you won't wanna look in the box when I'm through.
Hi guys,
I've just spent a few hours making a complete sideboard guide for the deck using my current list. Any feedback would be appreciated. Unfortunately, I did it in Word, so I have had to convert each page of the document into an image and then upload it here. Ive also tried uploading the document onto the internet, so maybe the link below will work. https://www.scribd.com/document/384901650/Sideboard-Guide-to-Squeeflagrate
EDIT: I just wanted to let you know that I used decklists from mtggoldfish modern metagame.
Hello guys. I've played this deck a couple years back and recently I decided to try to play it again. I have a PPTQ coming up in 3-4 weeks and I'd like to play this deck but don't know if its good enough. This is the list I'm trying right now. There are a couple of cards that i'm not sure and would like some advice or some criticism on my list.
there are a couple more cards that i thought about but have dismissed and decided not to mention, although if anyone else is inrested at looking into the new stuff there's plenty of resources like mtggoldfish.com and mythicspoiler.com
overall, guilds is looking like the best set for our deck in a while.
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Modern:UBRDeath's ShadowUBR, CEldrazi StompyC,WUBRGSliversWUBRG, UBRGTraverse ShadowUBRG,RUGtempo pileRUG Pauper:UdelverU they slaughtered my deck i miss gush and daze..
I used to play this deck in the Twin and Eldrazi days and am thinking about getting back into it. I've been playing Colorless Eldrazi lately and it just isn't all that fun after 200 matches. My main Modern focus has been on RUG Delver, so obviously I like playing the rogue interactive decks.
It's hard to picture how, if at all, this deck plays in the current meta. My local place has lots of Ux control, which this deck destroys, but also some Humans, Merfolk, Mardu, Jund, Kiki Chord, Junk Company, Storm, Turns, and Ponza. Lingering Souls seems good here.
I was thinking about playing Mausoleum Secrets as a 1 or 2 of because so much of the problem with the deck was not finding Infestation. Plus there are other fun tools like the cycling lands and Assassin's Trophy. Another thought was a couple Tireless Trackers in the board to give us a plan that isn't reliant on the yard. Lots to think about, but what it comes down to is that I miss playing Smallpox and Raven's Crime. Smallpoxing into a creature is the best feeling in Magic and I want to do it again.
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I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: URDelver
Modern: UGRDelver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
In my experience the cycle lands have been really slow. However, if you’re running souls i’d suggest giving driven//despair a try. I run a more tempo-y list but it can often help quite a bit. Of course, that’s a spell and not a land.
While mausoleum secrets is slow, I kinda wanna try using it to get a 1-of damnation and/or bontu’s reckoning. I’ll at least try that out myself.
So I decided to pick up pretty much where I left off in 2016 with the list before I started tinkering too much, just to get an idea. Pkaying online so I can get lots of testing in before I decide to pull the trigger in paper.
Thoughts:
1. Smallpox is a little matchup dependent, but crushes the decks it's good against, and hits most decks to some degree. It feels like Wasteland in Legacy in that it punishes your opponents' shaky keeps.
2. Darkblast is way less useful than it was when Infect and Affinity were everywhere. Looking to cut one for a Stinkweed Imp.
3. Lingering Souls feels great and gives lots of time to stabilize.
4. As always, it's tough to not have Infestation. I keep thinking whether Mausoleum Secrets as a 1 of is a good idea. My current t list only has 8 creatures, but I'm going up to 9 or 10 soon. Probably not worth it, but I intend to find out.
3. Conflagrate is good but I think I want access to a hard sweeper or two from the board. Bontu's Last Reckoning seems like the best fit.
4. The mana is painful. But I have 4 basics and that's helpful, especially with all the Path, Field, and Trophy in the format.
5. This deck rebuilds its graveyard pretty easily, even through a RIP. Still, it's like a double or triple Time Walk.
6. I won through a T3 Blood Moon against Mardu due to Squee pitching to Infestation and dredging the yard full to hit Looting so I could flash it back and look for a Swamp so I could Darkblast Pyromancer.
7. Driven // Despair is sweet. I cast two on a pair of Lingering Souls tokens and knocked four cards from a UW player's hand, for instance. That said, I still like having access to Raven's Crime as an extra piece that never goes away for the grindieat matchups. But it may belong in the board.
8. I wish there was some clean way to kill big creatures. Lightning Axe seems fine, but I've also thought about Spite of Mogis.
I'm excited to play around with this. One of the reasons I got interested I the deck again is that it's a fun solution to the grindy decks that litter my LGS, and tuning is fun.
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I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: URDelver
Modern: UGRDelver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
Maniospas: here's where I am as of about a week of the tournament practice room. I just added the Tec Edge, Imp, Mausoleum Secrets, and Bontu's Last Reckoning today and haven't played much with them. I'm moving slowly through iterations on this online, and like I said, I started with a list identical to the one I was playing 2 years ago. Much has changed since then. And there are still lots of changes to be made for me, like potentially a Call the Bloodline, as you say. Part of the reason I wanted to play this deck is that I like having a box with 120 cards in it that I get to play around with, as I'm doing with RUG Delver, and as I was unable to do with Colorless Eldrazi Stompy, which is a super tight list. So I'll be playing around with this for a while.
Spite of Mogis doesn't kill a big boy early, and I guess the scry is less useful here than in other decks, too. Lightning Axe is probably better.
My observation of the hate so far is that it's less Rest in Peace and Leyline and more of the one-shot effects, which are less a matter of destroying than simply playing around.
I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: URDelver
Modern: UGRDelver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
I haven't been keeping up to date with magic for a while due to Uni work, but now I am on the Christmas break I have time to talk about Zombie Loam again .
I'm not sure about Call the Bloodline as it just doesn't seem powerful enough for modern. Mausoleum Secrets seems like it could be good as a 1 of but I would be worried about having enough creatures to trigger it. Turn 1 faithless looting into turn 2 or 3 tutor does seem pretty good. It could increase the number of keep-able starting hands that we get which would be a good addition to the deck.
@MikePemulis, I'm interested in your inclusion of Bontu's Last Reckoning in the sideboard. What is your reasoning behind this? Do you think that it is better than Heaven // Earth (which can be played from the graveyard)?
Went 3-2 and played against the following things:
UR Kiln Fiend 2-0 (killed creatures, made lots of Zombies, he was never able to push lethal through)
Ad Nauseam 1-2 (game 1 I lucked him away, game 2 he had Unlife into 3 Angel's Grace, but found ADN quickly enough, game 3 he killed me on turn 4 top decking ADN while I had lethal on board on the backswing)
BW Midrange/Control 1-0-1 (won a long and grindy game 1, he didn't concede fast enough to Loam + Squees + Infestation, so game 2 went to time, had two cards left in the bib when the 5th extra turn ended)
Humans 2-0 (Game 1 grinded through 3 Meddling Mage, 2 Freebooter and 2 Thalia, Brownscale was king recovering several life, Conflagrate turned the game around, Game 2 Pharao + Infestation + Dark Blast was enough to grind him down)
Infect 1-2 (game 1 I had not enough interaction, game two I he dealt 9 Infect thanks to Darkblast's -1/-1 and than cleaned his board up, game 3 I kept a 6 land hand with one Fetchland (Bloodstained Mire, Grudge, Dark Blast, Loam, Tormenting Voice, Conflagrate) but never drew the second land).
Thoughts afterwards:
Was an extremely experimental list, Secrets was decent but I missed a good (mass) removal target and a discard spell. Maybe run the Crime MD and a Dark Salvation as a removal/finisher hybrid which you can tutor? Dunno.
Missed the Pharao MD, will definitely add him back. The 5 Draw spells felt awesome, might even want a 6th (so a second Tormenting Voice). Also, Tormenting Voice is better than Hugs here, cause I was often in Scenarios where I only wanted to discard a single card or I only had one card to begin with. Had a couple of times Driven//Despair in my hand/yard but never did something (and I could hardly use it). It would require a more early creature drops, so that you can nab 2-3 cards on turn 3 to be really worthwhile. Hence, I tend to cut them completely (also frees deckspace up).
The white source (Godless Shrine) was useless, was more of an liability than anything else (never hard casted Lingering Souls). So it will get cut again and replaced by another mana source, dunno which one yet. Also, not that keen on Tec Edge so far, might switch it for another Ghost Quarter/Field of Ruin (though, would want another basic than).
In general I felt, that if I can stabilise around turn 4-5 I would win the game for sure, which was something refreshing after playing lots of Delver
The list has potential, but needs a lot of work to get refined, some clunky things are in there and I'm missing a lot of things I would want to add. However, this is just meant as a brainstorm deck than anything else.
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
That list did a lot of things really good, it had a positive match-ups against any form of creature decks, was decent against control but sucked against combo. With the rise of Phoenix and Scaled Affinity, it needs a rework, and especially a faster clock against combo (otherwise you have to get a turn 2 Infestation and start praying).
So, basically I want to have a card, which can push in a lot of damage, is a one or two drop (everything costing more is to slow realistically) and offers at least something else.
Quick search, found the following cards: Tarmogoyf, aka the dumb beater. Grim Flayer, dumb beater with utility, Delirium is doable with this deck Lotleth Troll, here it gets interesting. Fast beater (cause it grows fast, especially with Squee and Dredgers), has utility (trample and regeneration) and is also a good card vs RiP (since still usable). Con: Only being able to ditch creatures sucks (no Loam interaction) Noose Constrictor, in comparison with the Troll: Allows to ditch any card (makes Lingering Souls and Loam better), has Reach (good vs Phoenix, Humans, Spirits, Affinity and co) but is a slower clock with Squees and Dredger (cause Squee + a Dredger is a three turn clock with Troll) but faster with anything else.
Since both the Noose as the Troll are an overall faster clock than Goyf/Flayer (cause of growing aspect + interaction with the remaining deck), both of them are out. And now comes the hard question, which creature is actually better?
My thoughts are:
- Lotleth Troll: Needs more creatures, cutting of Lingering Souls (cause no interaction) as Driven//Despair (same problem), makes the deck weaker to fliers but gains an incredible beater (also you want 4 Squees then). Also, inclusion of him makes Gravecrawler somewhat interesting, although I wouldn't play them since Ghasts are still better.
- Noose Constrictor: Works as Infestation 5-8 as in "it interacts with every card in the deck" and is really nasty with Loam (pay 1G, discard a card, target creature get +3/+3). Sadly no Regeneration (which would make this card clearly better). However, due to the metagameshare of Humans, Phoenix, Spirits and Affinity, the Reach ability is vastly better than Trample (cause in those match-ups where you would want Trample, the match-up is already good).
Hence, I will go with the Constrictor for the time being.
List looks like this (have no concrete SB yet, but will post some thoughts below):
The deck is basically a BG deck, with a red splash for Looting and Conflagrate.
Regarding the SB, since I already have the white splash for Souls and Vault (primarily for Vault to have a decent mid game card, Township or a manlad would also be an option), I can run the White sideboard spells in the board, if I play a Godless Shrine in the SB.
Basically I would do the following:
- Play a Godless Shrine in the SB (to have more white mana sources which are tutorable with all fetches)
- Play Stony Silence (vs KCI and Affinity)
- Play Rule of Law (vs KCI, Storm, Combo, Infect,...)
- Either Leyline of the Void, Surgical or Wheel of Sun and Moon as graveyard hate of choice. It solely depends on how many slots you want to spend for it.
- Nature's Claim or Wear/Tear against RiP and Cage, probably no need for Ancient Grudge due to Stony Silence (cause for those match-ups where you would want Grudge, Stony or Claim does the same job/or are even better)
- Play Raven's Crime for the Control match-up (if needed, would need to test it further)
- With that SB (only a Godless Shrine, Claim and maybe Crime as none Enchantment) Commune with the Gods looks really good as a possible way to find those enchantments easier (so instead of playing 4offs, 3offs with two Communes might be better).
So, in theory, I would play something like this as the SB:
I honestly think, that this deck should not need any help from the SB with creature decks (but stuff like Dredge or Phoenix, where some cards are king (Rule of Law/Wheel of Sun and Moon)). Hence, I would try to just pile anti combo cards in the SB and as we all know, white has by far the best cards for this.
I would love to get some feedback from you guys on my train of thoughts on this.
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
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@Old_bag_o_bones I apologise, my replies were not meant to be directed at you. I am more than happy to discuss different deck lists on this forum, as long as the posters are not being rude and trying to kick everyone else out of the forum.
What I was trying to say is that I am worried that by not including faithless looting, one of the best cards in the deck, we end up with a deck which is a strictly worse version of a more popular and competitive deck.
An example of this would be when I tried prized amalgam+ some unearth creatures in my deck (after Levy suggested it in one of his articles). The deck played pretty well but when I thought about it, my deck looked very similar to tier one modern dredge lists at the time. I had essentially turned the deck into a slower and strictly worse version of the modern dredge deck.
I now use driven // despair because it makes the deck more scary when you threaten to discard an opponent's hand with your bloodghasts and tokens, but you can still grind the opponent out in the late-game with squee and zombie infestation. The deck now looks much different to dredge, and has the ability to play through some forms of graveyard hate and still win (which modern dredge cannot do).
However, if you do manage to make a really good BG loam deck, I'd be more than happy to buy the required cards and test it at a local tournament.
Anyway, changing the subject, what are you guys including in your sideboards nowadays? My sideboard is currently:
3 Ray of Revelation
3 Golgari Brownscale
2 Memory's Journey
1 Raven's Crime
1 Vengeful Pharoah
1 Lighning Axe
I'm really keen on trying heaven // earth, but i'm not sure what to swap it for. What do you guys think?
Current Decklist- https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/732750#online
Sideboard Guide- https://www.scribd.com/document/384901650/Sideboard-Guide-to-Squeeflagrate
Forum- https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/582542-raphael-levys-loam-pox?page=37
I understand that Faithless looting is an important card (and a very powerful card!) to the current deck you guys are discussing, I'm suggesting a very different deck though, one based a little less on the graveyard. I feel like graveyard hate may be on the rise again and I don't like being stuck under graveyard hate that I have to fight out of with cards like Ray of Revelation. The pros and cons of that can be discussed, but it's just not what I want personally.
I totally get the comparison to BG rock, but I wouldn't say strictly worse version. Clearly that has yet to be seen since it's an untested idea.
I looked into building the deck but the verdant catacombs are out of my price range right now unfortunately... and I don't think the deck functions very well without on-color fetches. Bloodmoon is pretty big right now so skimping on fetches could be really bad. So I probably won't be testing the deck anytime soon. Maybe in a couple months or something. But I'll update you guys if that changes.
What cards do you usually take out when boarding in graveyard protection?
Current Decklist- https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/732750#online
Sideboard Guide- https://www.scribd.com/document/384901650/Sideboard-Guide-to-Squeeflagrate
Forum- https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/582542-raphael-levys-loam-pox?page=37
If I can put together a new version of the deck I'm eager to start contributing!
Maybe I should start with some of the obvious observations! So Smallpox isn't worth it in this meta? No complaints here - makes the mana a lot nicer if we aren't straining to hit BB on 2. How come we don't play Flame Jab or Raven's Crime any more? Did Molten Vortex do much to change the deck? Would love to hear more about the list I saw a couple of pages ago with Trade Routes in it as well. What are people's thoughts about the MUs with the common decks right now (jeskai, humans, tron, affinity, etc)?
The question is rather, what a R splash offers besides Looting and here it looks rather grim. Bolt is kinda meh when you are already packing so much removal while not needing any range (realistically), the R finishers are mostly meh (no good Walkers with a single R, the good Dragons are costly, clunky, affected by otherwise dead cards, and there are no "alternative" wincons) and even BBE doesn't do anything what we would want in this deck. Only Blightning looks kinda sexy but is most likely an overkill .Hence, a R splash would most likely be only for Looting (and MAYBE 1-2 Tormenting Voice/Dreadbore (out vs Planeswalkers)). All other Red Goodies are costing double R which is just not doable when playing with Pox (you want R/B, BB or Gx or RB, into BBx or GBx).
However, I agree with your assessment, that Blood Moon would just destroy that deck.
Hey man!
Just read the last 4-5 pages and your are basically up to date with the deck. As you already have seen, not many players mean no true stock list. However, both @Danr2000 as @maniospas are the main players from this deck and thus the respective lists with which you should get started.
Why no Flame Jab/Raven's Wing? They are both clunky and win more, so usually overkill and thus see close to no play (also the mana base is kinda iffy with them). Molten Vortex no longer sees any (real) play due to the same reasons, clunkyness. Infestation does just so much more.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I feel weird plugging my list now, but part of why I pursued the hollow one package in the first place was to make graveyard hate less effective. Running more ways to filter through the deck without the GY and fewer graveyard-only-relevant cards like pharaoh opens up sideboard slots otherwise needed to fight hate.
Jeff Hoogland played Abzan Loam pox yesterday. It includes haakon, stromgald scourge, nameless inversion and knight of the reliquary.
Current Decklist- https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/732750#online
Sideboard Guide- https://www.scribd.com/document/384901650/Sideboard-Guide-to-Squeeflagrate
Forum- https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/582542-raphael-levys-loam-pox?page=37
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Then change the name of the thread because people will search for loam pox and get a pleasant surprise.
The trade-off is that you lose the previous information gathered about loam pox, why it failed. What people exploring it, could learn from it.
Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but you can build a deck around pox. It has a drawback. The meta says otherwise with stuff like pyro, lingering, white tokens in general. But you can build a deck around any card with a drawback. And that's pox, even though loam is easier to build around.
I already suggested to split this thread where it changed to save both parties...
But I'm not a mod, it's not my job, what do I know?
Current Decklist- https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/732750#online
Sideboard Guide- https://www.scribd.com/document/384901650/Sideboard-Guide-to-Squeeflagrate
Forum- https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/582542-raphael-levys-loam-pox?page=37
Either way, it is probably the best dedicated Loam Pox deck out there, since it abuses every aspect of the mentioned cards.
Greetings
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I've just spent a few hours making a complete sideboard guide for the deck using my current list. Any feedback would be appreciated. Unfortunately, I did it in Word, so I have had to convert each page of the document into an image and then upload it here. Ive also tried uploading the document onto the internet, so maybe the link below will work.
https://www.scribd.com/document/384901650/Sideboard-Guide-to-Squeeflagrate
EDIT: I just wanted to let you know that I used decklists from mtggoldfish modern metagame.
Current Decklist- https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/732750#online
Sideboard Guide- https://www.scribd.com/document/384901650/Sideboard-Guide-to-Squeeflagrate
Forum- https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/582542-raphael-levys-loam-pox?page=37
4 Bloodghast
3 Squee, Goblin Nabob
4 Prized Amalgam
2 Stinkweed Imp
1 Vengeful Pharaoh
Spells
4 Life from the Loam
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls
4 Zombie Infestation
3 Darkblast
2 Lightning Axe
2 Conflagrate
1 Raven's Crime
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Blood Crypt
2 Stomping Ground
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Horizon Canopy
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Canyon Slough
No sideboard yet.
Jeff Hoogland played our deck again (without driven//despair) https://youtu.be/qq4z3YCGkI8
Current Decklist- https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/732750#online
Sideboard Guide- https://www.scribd.com/document/384901650/Sideboard-Guide-to-Squeeflagrate
Forum- https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/582542-raphael-levys-loam-pox?page=37
anyways i wanted to mention some exciting new cards for us!
http://mythicspoiler.com/grn/cards/assassinstrophy.jpg
firstly we have a new removal spell which could prove useful for us.
https://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/270/860/636722946574759813.png
then we have a new tutor which feels like it'll be great in or deck, since it can tutor infestation or brutality or maybe even abrupt decays or inquisitions or something.
http://mythicspoiler.com/grn/cards/vraskagolgariqueen1.jpg
lastly there's the new vraska planeswalker, which could be fun to mess around with, though she is certainly the weakest of these three imo.
there are a couple more cards that i thought about but have dismissed and decided not to mention, although if anyone else is inrested at looking into the new stuff there's plenty of resources like mtggoldfish.com and mythicspoiler.com
overall, guilds is looking like the best set for our deck in a while.
Pauper: UdelverUthey slaughtered my deck i miss gush and daze..Turn 6 Karn > Turn 2 Phage
It's hard to picture how, if at all, this deck plays in the current meta. My local place has lots of Ux control, which this deck destroys, but also some Humans, Merfolk, Mardu, Jund, Kiki Chord, Junk Company, Storm, Turns, and Ponza. Lingering Souls seems good here.
I was thinking about playing Mausoleum Secrets as a 1 or 2 of because so much of the problem with the deck was not finding Infestation. Plus there are other fun tools like the cycling lands and Assassin's Trophy. Another thought was a couple Tireless Trackers in the board to give us a plan that isn't reliant on the yard. Lots to think about, but what it comes down to is that I miss playing Smallpox and Raven's Crime. Smallpoxing into a creature is the best feeling in Magic and I want to do it again.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
While mausoleum secrets is slow, I kinda wanna try using it to get a 1-of damnation and/or bontu’s reckoning. I’ll at least try that out myself.
Thoughts:
1. Smallpox is a little matchup dependent, but crushes the decks it's good against, and hits most decks to some degree. It feels like Wasteland in Legacy in that it punishes your opponents' shaky keeps.
2. Darkblast is way less useful than it was when Infect and Affinity were everywhere. Looking to cut one for a Stinkweed Imp.
3. Lingering Souls feels great and gives lots of time to stabilize.
4. As always, it's tough to not have Infestation. I keep thinking whether Mausoleum Secrets as a 1 of is a good idea. My current t list only has 8 creatures, but I'm going up to 9 or 10 soon. Probably not worth it, but I intend to find out.
3. Conflagrate is good but I think I want access to a hard sweeper or two from the board. Bontu's Last Reckoning seems like the best fit.
4. The mana is painful. But I have 4 basics and that's helpful, especially with all the Path, Field, and Trophy in the format.
5. This deck rebuilds its graveyard pretty easily, even through a RIP. Still, it's like a double or triple Time Walk.
6. I won through a T3 Blood Moon against Mardu due to Squee pitching to Infestation and dredging the yard full to hit Looting so I could flash it back and look for a Swamp so I could Darkblast Pyromancer.
7. Driven // Despair is sweet. I cast two on a pair of Lingering Souls tokens and knocked four cards from a UW player's hand, for instance. That said, I still like having access to Raven's Crime as an extra piece that never goes away for the grindieat matchups. But it may belong in the board.
8. I wish there was some clean way to kill big creatures. Lightning Axe seems fine, but I've also thought about Spite of Mogis.
I'm excited to play around with this. One of the reasons I got interested I the deck again is that it's a fun solution to the grindy decks that litter my LGS, and tuning is fun.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
Spite of Mogis doesn't kill a big boy early, and I guess the scry is less useful here than in other decks, too. Lightning Axe is probably better.
My observation of the hate so far is that it's less Rest in Peace and Leyline and more of the one-shot effects, which are less a matter of destroying than simply playing around.
2x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained Mire
1x Forest
3x Ghost Quarter
1x Godless Shrine
1x Mountain
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Stomping Ground
2x Swamp
1x Tectonic Edge
3x Verdant Catacombs
3x Wooded Foothills
Enchantment (4)
4x Zombie Infestation
Sorcery (20)
2x Conflagrate
2x Driven / Despair
4x Faithless Looting
4x Life from the Loam
3x Lingering Souls
1x Raven's Crime
4x Smallpox
4x Bloodghast
1x Golgari Brownscale
1x Squee, Goblin Nabob
1x Stinkweed Imp
2x Vengeful Pharaoh
Instant (3)
1x Abrupt Decay
1x Darkblast
1x Mausoleum Secrets
3x Ancient Grudge
2x Bontu's Last Reckoning
1x Conflagrate
1x Driven / Despair
2x Golgari Brownscale
2x Nature's Claim
1x Raven's Crime
2x Ray of Revelation
1x Vengeful Pharaoh
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
I haven't been keeping up to date with magic for a while due to Uni work, but now I am on the Christmas break I have time to talk about Zombie Loam again .
I'm not sure about Call the Bloodline as it just doesn't seem powerful enough for modern. Mausoleum Secrets seems like it could be good as a 1 of but I would be worried about having enough creatures to trigger it. Turn 1 faithless looting into turn 2 or 3 tutor does seem pretty good. It could increase the number of keep-able starting hands that we get which would be a good addition to the deck.
@MikePemulis, I'm interested in your inclusion of Bontu's Last Reckoning in the sideboard. What is your reasoning behind this? Do you think that it is better than Heaven // Earth (which can be played from the graveyard)?
Current Decklist- https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/732750#online
Sideboard Guide- https://www.scribd.com/document/384901650/Sideboard-Guide-to-Squeeflagrate
Forum- https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/582542-raphael-levys-loam-pox?page=37
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
2 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Swamp
2 Blooming Marsh
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Bojuka Bog
//Creatures
4 Bloodghast
3 Squee, Goblin Nabob
2 Stinkweed Imp
1 Golgari Brownscale
1 Necroplasm
4 Faithless Looting
1 Tormenting Voice
4 Zombie Infestation
4 Life from the Loam
2 Mausoleum Secrets
2 Driven // Despair
2 Lingering Souls
//Removal
2 Darkblast
1 Lightning Axe
1 Collective Brutality
1 Assassin's Trophy
1 Heaven // Earth
3 Conflagrate
4 Thoughtseize
1 Raven's Crime
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Nature's Claim
1 Vengeful Pharaoh
1 Lightning Axe
4 Leyline of the Void
Went 3-2 and played against the following things:
UR Kiln Fiend 2-0 (killed creatures, made lots of Zombies, he was never able to push lethal through)
Ad Nauseam 1-2 (game 1 I lucked him away, game 2 he had Unlife into 3 Angel's Grace, but found ADN quickly enough, game 3 he killed me on turn 4 top decking ADN while I had lethal on board on the backswing)
BW Midrange/Control 1-0-1 (won a long and grindy game 1, he didn't concede fast enough to Loam + Squees + Infestation, so game 2 went to time, had two cards left in the bib when the 5th extra turn ended)
Humans 2-0 (Game 1 grinded through 3 Meddling Mage, 2 Freebooter and 2 Thalia, Brownscale was king recovering several life, Conflagrate turned the game around, Game 2 Pharao + Infestation + Dark Blast was enough to grind him down)
Infect 1-2 (game 1 I had not enough interaction, game two I he dealt 9 Infect thanks to Darkblast's -1/-1 and than cleaned his board up, game 3 I kept a 6 land hand with one Fetchland (Bloodstained Mire, Grudge, Dark Blast, Loam, Tormenting Voice, Conflagrate) but never drew the second land).
Thoughts afterwards:
Was an extremely experimental list, Secrets was decent but I missed a good (mass) removal target and a discard spell. Maybe run the Crime MD and a Dark Salvation as a removal/finisher hybrid which you can tutor? Dunno.
Missed the Pharao MD, will definitely add him back. The 5 Draw spells felt awesome, might even want a 6th (so a second Tormenting Voice). Also, Tormenting Voice is better than Hugs here, cause I was often in Scenarios where I only wanted to discard a single card or I only had one card to begin with. Had a couple of times Driven//Despair in my hand/yard but never did something (and I could hardly use it). It would require a more early creature drops, so that you can nab 2-3 cards on turn 3 to be really worthwhile. Hence, I tend to cut them completely (also frees deckspace up).
The white source (Godless Shrine) was useless, was more of an liability than anything else (never hard casted Lingering Souls). So it will get cut again and replaced by another mana source, dunno which one yet. Also, not that keen on Tec Edge so far, might switch it for another Ghost Quarter/Field of Ruin (though, would want another basic than).
In general I felt, that if I can stabilise around turn 4-5 I would win the game for sure, which was something refreshing after playing lots of Delver
The list has potential, but needs a lot of work to get refined, some clunky things are in there and I'm missing a lot of things I would want to add. However, this is just meant as a brainstorm deck than anything else.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I was pondering again about what to do exactly with the shell and came to the following conclusions: I want to go back to that version played by Jason Chung at GP Melbourne in 2016.
That list did a lot of things really good, it had a positive match-ups against any form of creature decks, was decent against control but sucked against combo. With the rise of Phoenix and Scaled Affinity, it needs a rework, and especially a faster clock against combo (otherwise you have to get a turn 2 Infestation and start praying).
So, basically I want to have a card, which can push in a lot of damage, is a one or two drop (everything costing more is to slow realistically) and offers at least something else.
Quick search, found the following cards:
Tarmogoyf, aka the dumb beater.
Grim Flayer, dumb beater with utility, Delirium is doable with this deck
Lotleth Troll, here it gets interesting. Fast beater (cause it grows fast, especially with Squee and Dredgers), has utility (trample and regeneration) and is also a good card vs RiP (since still usable). Con: Only being able to ditch creatures sucks (no Loam interaction)
Noose Constrictor, in comparison with the Troll: Allows to ditch any card (makes Lingering Souls and Loam better), has Reach (good vs Phoenix, Humans, Spirits, Affinity and co) but is a slower clock with Squees and Dredger (cause Squee + a Dredger is a three turn clock with Troll) but faster with anything else.
Since both the Noose as the Troll are an overall faster clock than Goyf/Flayer (cause of growing aspect + interaction with the remaining deck), both of them are out. And now comes the hard question, which creature is actually better?
My thoughts are:
- Lotleth Troll: Needs more creatures, cutting of Lingering Souls (cause no interaction) as Driven//Despair (same problem), makes the deck weaker to fliers but gains an incredible beater (also you want 4 Squees then). Also, inclusion of him makes Gravecrawler somewhat interesting, although I wouldn't play them since Ghasts are still better.
- Noose Constrictor: Works as Infestation 5-8 as in "it interacts with every card in the deck" and is really nasty with Loam (pay 1G, discard a card, target creature get +3/+3). Sadly no Regeneration (which would make this card clearly better). However, due to the metagameshare of Humans, Phoenix, Spirits and Affinity, the Reach ability is vastly better than Trample (cause in those match-ups where you would want Trample, the match-up is already good).
Hence, I will go with the Constrictor for the time being.
List looks like this (have no concrete SB yet, but will post some thoughts below):
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
1 Blooming Marsh
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Swamp
3 Ghost Quarter
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Bloodghast
4 Noose Constrictor
4 Squee, Goblin Nabob
2 Stinkweed Imp
1 Golgari Brownscale
1 Necroplasm
2 Vengeful Pharaoh
//Stuff
4 Faithless Looting
4 Zombie Infestation
4 Life from the Loam
2 Lingering Souls
2 Darkblast
3 Conflagrate
1 Heaven/Earth
The deck is basically a BG deck, with a red splash for Looting and Conflagrate.
Regarding the SB, since I already have the white splash for Souls and Vault (primarily for Vault to have a decent mid game card, Township or a manlad would also be an option), I can run the White sideboard spells in the board, if I play a Godless Shrine in the SB.
Basically I would do the following:
- Play a Godless Shrine in the SB (to have more white mana sources which are tutorable with all fetches)
- Play Stony Silence (vs KCI and Affinity)
- Play Rule of Law (vs KCI, Storm, Combo, Infect,...)
- Either Leyline of the Void, Surgical or Wheel of Sun and Moon as graveyard hate of choice. It solely depends on how many slots you want to spend for it.
- Nature's Claim or Wear/Tear against RiP and Cage, probably no need for Ancient Grudge due to Stony Silence (cause for those match-ups where you would want Grudge, Stony or Claim does the same job/or are even better)
- Play Raven's Crime for the Control match-up (if needed, would need to test it further)
- With that SB (only a Godless Shrine, Claim and maybe Crime as none Enchantment) Commune with the Gods looks really good as a possible way to find those enchantments easier (so instead of playing 4offs, 3offs with two Communes might be better).
So, in theory, I would play something like this as the SB:
1 Godless Shrine
2 Commune with the Gods
3 Stony Silence
2 Wheel of Sun and Moon
3 Rule of Law
3 Nature's Claim
1 Raven's Crime
I honestly think, that this deck should not need any help from the SB with creature decks (but stuff like Dredge or Phoenix, where some cards are king (Rule of Law/Wheel of Sun and Moon)). Hence, I would try to just pile anti combo cards in the SB and as we all know, white has by far the best cards for this.
I would love to get some feedback from you guys on my train of thoughts on this.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)