MTG Salvation

Quote from Mr_Lord_Mr »

Is using crown of convergence and the pilli palla-grand architect combo to fragile? Since we intend to win on that turn couldn't we use pact of negation as protection?

*edit: also I saw mention of spellskite, that would help two and muddle the mixture fetches it and crown.

That is an option but the idea of using Grand Architect was loosely scrapped. It just has too many parts that have to come together, and once you have infinite mana you might as well win some easier way. I liked it as it was flexible, but realistically the combo was not what the deck wold have been looking to be doing. You might as well have just played a 'normal' Grand Architect deck and actually won some games. The more recent talked about version of the deck is streamlined for a single purpose.

It looks like MTGGoldfish posted a new decktech of their version of the deck. Here is the link to their article/vidoe about it. I am not convinced that it is better than the Leyline-Shaku version or the Grand Architect version that powers out Unbender Tine/Phyrexian Metamorph/Fatestitcher. The Forbidden Orchard + Intruder Alarm is a neat way they can get around slow-play but honestly the deck is a monstrosity anyways and it adds unnecessary pieces to the deck.

Since the thread has been dead I stopped bumping it, but I figured that this is enough of a reason to try an revive it and see if there is any renewed interest, and there is no real point in starting a new thread since all the previous discussions are still relevant. I'll probably update the OP so that anyone stumbling their way around the internet can check it out and understand it in a single place. For now this post will be the reference, and these two decks are where I am with the deck right now.

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Here is the most up-to-date Shaku list I have:

To those who don't remember:

Mulligan for Leyline of Singularity in your opening hand and start with it in play. Play a Mesmeric Orb and Honor-Worn Shaku to complete the combo then go to town taping and untapping Honor-Worn Shaku to keep milling yourself 1 card at a time. Every time there is a Narcomoeba put into play you can use it to generate 1 by tapping the Honor-Worn Shaku for mana then tapping the Narcomoeba to untap the Shaku. Do this until you mill Emrakul, the Aeons Torn and reset everything. Repeat this process until you have more mana than in the opponents deck and then mill until Increasing Confusion is in your graveyard and flash it back to mill out your opponent.

Chart a Course is there in case you have Emrakul or a Narcomoeba in hand. Ensnaring Bridge slows down the opponent a bit if they are attacking you. Spellskite stops any artifact destruction spells. All of the legendary lands are there to provide extra untaps of the Shaku in case you mill Emrakul before any Narcomoebas and need to keep milling to change the board state to get around any slow-play rulings. Swan Song is there to counter anything that would kill you, or to stop Stony Silence or Rest in Peace as those also beat you. Overall Ensnaring Bridge is probably a flex slot and not needed. You could play more Fabricate to make the deck more consistent, or some artifact ramp to speed it up a bit. Perhaps Sleight of Hand or Opt can be included but if you draw Emmy you need a way to discard it and we usually end up with a lot of redundant cards in our hand to discard anyways (Increasing Confusion, Leyline of Singularity, Narcomoeba, and Serum Powder). Echoing Truth could be included too as an out to Stony Silence and Leyline of Sanctity.

Also goldfishing with this Shaku list.... as long as I was getting a Leyline in my opener and a Shaku on turn 3 I was able to play the rest of my cards. I also realized that once I had the "infinite" C mana I could just dump the rest of my hand. If we played a single Walking Ballista it could kill on the spot and Academy Ruins can put it back on top of the library. It's not needed but an additional draw source like Horizon Canopy can allow us to draw theoretically any artifact. This would be an even faster combo than Paradox Engine decks too and potentially KCI Eggs decks with a potential T3 kill.

Cards to think about adding in later are Search for Azcanta, Inventors' Fair, Mikokoro, Center of the Sea (could draw something off of Academy Ruins maybe?), Pendelhaven (if G is added for Ancient Stirrings), Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth (for B sideboard cards maybe?)

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As for the Grand Architect list: It can dump cards a lot faster than the Shaku list so I thought about putting Grand Architect into that deck but it just doesn't work out as expected. The biggest thing GA does for us is opening up to combo redundancy and tapping cards in the form of Unbender Tine, Phyrexian Metamorph, and Fatestitcher. Kiora's Follower and Second Wind just don't cut it any more with the former cards being powered out by GA. Here is where the list is at right now:

It uses the traditional win of Unburial Rites on Sharuum the Hegemon to bring back Blasting Station and from there you keep milling Narcomoeba and saccing it with Blasting Station to kill the opponent 1 damage at a time. Grand Architect and Etherium Sculptor can really dump your hand fast but the biggest problem I have found is cards getting stuck in your hand. Smuggler's Copter, Necrogen Spellbomb, and nonartifact things like Collective Brutality or Thirst for Knowledge are the only ways I can think of discarding Emmy in our hand. There aren't many great artifact ways which is kind of a problem. The deck is also opened up to creature removal so playing Blue Steel (normal Grand Architect) is 9 times out of 10 going to be the smarter call. Maybe drop the GA and just play Etherium Sculptor? Going G or B would give some good discard outlets too. The other big problem is that the deck is weak to both graveyard and artifact hate, both of which sideboards always have. This is the same reason Sword of the Meek + Thopter Foundry didn't catch on in Modern. More brewing will refine this version...

Quote from x1uo3yd »

Any ideas on how to abuse Whir of Invention in the Shaku lists? Lantern uses it to great effect in putting together their winning boardstate while shaving the numbers of cards they rarely want in multiples.

Here are four lists I've been toying around with for the last few months.




As you can see I went from Fabricate to Baubles and Whir, then back to some carddraw. One of the problems the deck has is drawing cards that you need for the combo (ie: Emrakul is the worst one) and then having no way to get it out of your hand. I was trying out Chart a Course and Ideas Unbound as ways to dump cards. There are also a lot of dead draws in the deck. Serum Powder, Leyline of Singularity, Narcomoeba, Emrakul, etc... You always have extra cards that you are happy to discard to the downside of Chart a Course and Ideas Unbound, which could even open up for some red cards like Faithless Looting.

My impressions of Whir of Invention is that it is either great, or stuck in your hand. Lantern is able to dump all of it's 1 and 0 mana artifacts to power out a Whir. Out cards cost 2 and 3 so they come out much slower, meaning Whir is much slower. The other probelm is that we play lots of colourless lands to hit lots of legendary ones, and Darksteel Citadel to ensure Metalcraft for Mox Opal. You can see my thought process in those four lists, so maybe there is something I'm missing. If you have any ideas I'd be happy to hear.

Quote from Endurrr »

So, I've been pretty interested in this deck recently (specifically the shaku version) and was wondering how are the matchups, and how is this deck against the current meta?

Edit: also curious about how this deck sideboards

Well since I'm possibly the only one who's extensively looked into it to the best of my knowledge (on the internet) there isn't much to discuss about it in the meta. If you're looking for something competitive then it's not going to be this, sorry. The deck requires a Leyline in your opening hand, and then 2 more cards for the combo after that, and often can't even win the turn you assemble the combo. It gets hit by both graveyard and artifact hate, so think of it like a Thoptorsword deck with extra steps. The deck is super linear and doesn't interact, so think of it as Eggs or Storm in terms of matchups. As for the sideboard, I didn't have one right now. Just like 4 Sawn Songs and Spellskites to try and counter removal.

Quote from Heskatet »

Hi there, I ran a legacy list with the mesmeric orb Basalt monolith combo and there are some suggestions I wanted to make. You can decide for yourself if you find them usefull or not. Maybe they are not good in your deck because my version won with dread return angel of glory's rise, azami lady of scrolls and laboratory maniac.
Since there is a different card pool I will tell you for what the cards were for and what to possibly substitute in modern.
The deck was mono blue so I played brainstorm for 2 reasons. Protecting my combo and get cards from my hand back to the library.
There is no similar card to brainstorm, but See Beyond could maybe earn a spot.
Also, mid combo, Phantasmagorian was also there to get cards from your hand to the yard.
Since careful study isn't in the modern card pool, I think Ideas Unbound is the best substitute because as I see it, this deck can win in the end of turn step.

Dread Return 'makes' the deck in Legacy and that's why it looks so different in Modern. There are so many dead cards in the deck once we have what we need (Serum Powder, Increasing Confusion, Leyline of Singularity, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, and Narcomoeba are the main ones) that the discard 3 downside of Ideas Unbound is basically nonexistent. I like it much more over any other 2 mana option for this reason. Likewise with Phantasmagorian, I've thought about it but you may not always have 3 cards in hand to discard to it and you're still stuck then.

Quote from nsyon7 »

To get rid of Emrakul from your hand you can use Desolate Lighthouse. My question is, how do you beat an opposing Emrakul? You need something like Tormod's Crypt or Relic of Progenitus. If you have Whir, I'd recommend playing one of Crypt at least.

What do you mean "beating an opposing Emrakul"? Why would this be a consideration for the deck? Do you mean you can't mill them out because they have an Emrakul in their deck? In that case just draw your's, cast it, then attack for a win.

Quote from x1uo3yd »

Traxos, Scourge of Kroog+Banishing Knack

Hi all! It looks like there's a new tap/untap engine available for testing once DOM releases. All you need are the above two cards and a 0cmc artifact to cast, bounce, and recast as needed.

Pros include the fact that Banishing Knack/Retraction Helix offer redundancy for one combo piece; you can generate infinite mana with the combo if you make your loop of cast, tap, bounce Mox Opal; with infinite mana you can easily cast Mesmeric Orb from hand to get the mill plan rolling after your mana plan is in effect.

Cons include the fact that you have to play the smaller combo piece *after* casting the larger; summoning sickness; and the fact that the tap/untap loop occurs at sorcery speed so you can't mill past Emrakul (without adding more cards to make the combo instant speed).

Looks like it'll be a fun one to test. The infinite-mana engine being easier than the infinite-mill engine might skew these builds from the deck's roots, but maybe it's too early to say that with certainty.

This engine already existed with Battered Golem. Traxos, Scourge of Kroog is one mana more and the only removal that it doesn't die to is Lightning Bolt. It's just worse than using a combination of Fatestitcher/Unbender Tine/Phyrexian Metamorph since those cards have Haste. The reason to play Shaku is that it makes all creature removal dead, giving us an advantage.

Quote from Endurrr »

we might have a new playable in m19?

Thoughts?

While this is a neat card, and can make "infinite" tokens for the deck, it gets hit by both graveyard and artifact hate which the deck already gets obliterated by. It can act as a Narcomoeba since Emmy will shuffle the graveyard and create a Bat token, but you now have to invest another 3 mana into the combo rather than getting the effect for free and 2 slots in the deck.

If you are playing the Leyline-Shaku version then this card doesn't help the deck in any way. If you are playing the Grand Architect version then it has more promise but still gets hit by all graveyard hate that currently hits the deck...

Quote from x1uo3yd »

So... any new builds now that Creeping Chill can deal up to 4x3=12 points of damage for zero mana?

It's there if we really want it, but where is the last 8-ish damage coming from? We'd have nothing to follow it up so I don't think it's a fit for this deck.

Quote from dos_rogue »

why hasn't Traxos, Scourge of Kroog + Banishing Knack taken off?

or even the battered golem? keep bouncing mox opal for mana?

Same reason Tidewater Minion, Fatestitcher, Kiora's Follower, Grand Architect + Pili-Pala, Palladium Myr + Voltaic Construct, etc... haven't. They're creatures, meaning they will probably be dead before you get the combo going since the opponent has nothing better to use their removal on. In all cases you need 2 cards to untap, and 2 more to win. Perhaps some huge redundant amount of untapping creatures can get the job done, but with Mesmeric Orb being necessary, might as well go all in on the artifacts as they are easy to search out.

Quote from x1uo3yd »

So, with the upcoming changeover to the London Mulligan, does the Leyline-Shaku gameplan get the strongest boost relative to all other options?

The new mulligan rule will help the deck for sure because you'll basically be guaranteed a T1 Leyline. The problem of the deck still being weak to graveyard AND artifact hate still remains though. There are too many Surgical Extractions and stuff flying around at this time to make it viable I'm afraid.