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Has anyone tried going RWB and splashing black for souls+vizkopa guildmage and potentially cutting purple man? to lower curve and see how it performed?
Lingering souls is not overly good in this deck. This deck needs a critical amount of creatures to keep trigering the ETB and non-creature spells need to be really good to include. The drawback to souls is that it doesn't trigger Champion of the Parish or genesis chamber. i also think that a 3cmc card is pretty steep in this deck. most cards should be in the 1-2 range so you can play multiple things in a turn and trigger multiple abilities (Mentor of the meek or spirit bonds if you're running it)
i think in a non-champion deck it could be good.
I do not like vizkopa guildmage. his abilities cost too much. I prefer blood artist and dark confidant in a RWB version. this deck runs only a few lands and you won't always have extra lands to tap for this ability. But at least he's human, and he can give CoP lifelink which is just mean. he could be worth testing
This is the deck that I'm going to start testing. ITS BWR and its less about attacking and more about grinding out my opponent with a whole bunch of creatures coming into play every turn. I don't have a sideboard in mind just yet, but it will most likely have some lightning bolts and wear // tear and other cards. I've really like blood artist in this deck, and I might even take out the CoP's and replace it with 2 more Blood Artists and 2 Mardu Shadowspear, or Zurgo Bellstriker
My Main concern with this deck is the mana curve. I have a lot of 2CMC cards and i think that may lead me into some trouble
My built is somehow like your approach (less attacking) although I think I overdid it with 10 blinkers (4 Norin, 4 Glitterfang and 2 Trusted Advisor).
I also have Spirit Bonds to maximize the ETB effect.
The decks I've faced are not tier decks as we have scarcity of Modern events here and but it did show promise. Just need to configure the land base (I'm only using basic lands except for a singleton Kher Keep and Tomb of The Spirit Dragon) and make the W mana more consistent.
I have no card drawers except Military Intelligence (I use Norwin and a Spirit token to trigger this).
My most expensive card is a couple of Growing Ranks which usually seals the game if the opponent is not able to answer it on their turn.
I don't have any removal on my list as I don't have the PtEs yet but a set would be my removal suit.
its pretty week to blood moon, but otherwise it usually gives me no trouble.
Makes sense. I will post my build later. Apologies since i am not familiar with my decklist and I don't have access to it right now.
I don't know with you but I built mine with only basic lands (of course except the singleton Kher Keep, Tomb of the Spirit Dragon and set of Evolving Wilds) and the only card that requires double mana is Growing Ranks so I am seeing that I can mainboard Blood Moon. Although I have troubles with getting W mana needed to fuel Spirit Bonds on my case but my deck and your deck can have a Blood Moon on the mainboard (your only card that requires double W mana is Return to the Ranks). Granted you also switch your mana base to basic lands.
I get it that you run Dark Confidant to draw cards, trigger Genesis Chamber and fuel Champion of the Parish but would you consider using Dark Tutelage or Phyrexian Arena instead? I know they are a turn slower and not a creature but they're little less vulnerable to removal.
I played against 3 decks and I only lost to one deck ala Scapeshift style without the Scapeshift. This list is a bit clunky and the mana base is a bit painful but I guess that leaves an option for a mainboard Blood Moon.
I think you may be light on creatures. 18 just doesn't seem like enough to be triggering all of your abilities. You might also be light on lands as you will be needing at least 4 for your deck to be running well, I would bump it up to at least 22. I would cut at least 1 genesis chamber and one spirit bonds, or do a 2/4 split in some fashion. 4 suture priests seems like too many, but I haven't tested them much so its hard to say, I think I'm going to try running 6 soul sisters and 2 priests in my build.
I would run either a 3/3 split of trusted advisor and glitterfang, or even 4/2. have him stick arund unti lnext upkeep means her can block some myr tokens or chump block a bigger creature.
Your mana base seems fine for a budget list, i think the tomb might be unnecessary as it is dependent on the genesis chamber and you already have plenty of lifegain.
I recommend you take out 4 noncreature spells and replace them with 2 more creatures and 2 more land.
The only other thing I can recommend is to cut blue entirley and replace it with mentor of the meek. It'll smooth out the mana better and you're not getting anything from blue that you can't also get in white.
I get it that you run Dark Confidant to draw cards, trigger Genesis Chamber and fuel Champion of the Parish but would you consider using Dark Tutelage or Phyrexian Arena instead? I know they are a turn slower and not a creature but they're little less vulnerable to removal.
the more noncreature cards you add the worse this deck gets. also those cards are more mana than Dark Confidant, and this deck thrives on playing multiple cards a turn, so they slow that down. Phyrexian arena is way better than Dark tutelage.
I'm fine with removal in this deck, there are a lot of creatures in it and they can't one for one all of them. and if they pull off a pyroclasm then I have Return to the Ranks to recover (hopefully)
Does anyone still run Dismember? I saw a few early deck drafts using and I run it in my current list. I find this to be very helpful to me. Sure I have to pay 4 life but it can save me and with the amount of life gain we get I am barely affected.
I don't know if you need to main deck dismember. I think for you build I would try another lightning bolt and another return to the rank instead or main deck the bloodmoons
Dismember is a really good card in this deck. Another 1 mana removal spell is fantastic but you don't always need that much removal in your main deck. Depends on your meta I guess
I think you may be light on creatures. 18 just doesn't seem like enough to be triggering all of your abilities. You might also be light on lands as you will be needing at least 4 for your deck to be running well, I would bump it up to at least 22. I would cut at least 1 genesis chamber and one spirit bonds, or do a 2/4 split in some fashion. 4 suture priests seems like too many, but I haven't tested them much so its hard to say, I think I'm going to try running 6 soul sisters and 2 priests in my build.
I would run either a 3/3 split of trusted advisor and glitterfang, or even 4/2. have him stick arund unti lnext upkeep means her can block some myr tokens or chump block a bigger creature.
Your mana base seems fine for a budget list, i think the tomb might be unnecessary as it is dependent on the genesis chamber and you already have plenty of lifegain.
I recommend you take out 4 noncreature spells and replace them with 2 more creatures and 2 more land.
The only other thing I can recommend is to cut blue entirley and replace it with mentor of the meek. It'll smooth out the mana better and you're not getting anything from blue that you can't also get in white.
It seems I am not having issues with the creature count.
I certainly agree with you on adding more lands as this is really an issue. Let alone getting the right land you need to cast that specific card.
I'll think about the Tomb issue and I am actually leaning about your opinion on it.
I'll probably take out the Military Intelligence and replace it with 2 lands and stick with a 2 color build which means Trusted Advisor have to go and be replaced by Lightning Berserker. It will be a 4 Lightning Berserker/2 Glitterfang distribution.
Suture Priest has his contributions so you might consider running it too.
As for MoM and the other staple cards (Ranger of Eos, Champion of the Parish, Adjani's Pridemante, etc) they are on my list so I would have a back up plan in case this build won't work.
Thanks for your opinion about Dark Confidant but I would stick to two colors for now and that card is pricey for my budget right now.
Yea I need them mainboarded most of my games. Twin is a big problem for me along with Abzan. I find having at least this much removal helps slow other decks down. Not always but it is nice.
I've seen some othmailer decks main board roast. It does the same thing for us that dismember does but doesn't take 4 life in the process. The extra mana is harsh on this deck but not terrible. It might be a decent replacement t for dismember.
I feel like twin should be a decent match up for us, are they just killing your soul sisters? If we have 1 soul sister out they can't combo with exarch and if we have 2 they can't combo with pestermite.
If you are playing against a good Twin player they will be removing your sisters before comboing. It will still be a preference thing I'm sure but Dismember removes more creatures than Roast. If people are worried about losing 4 life in the long run I would go with Roast.
How is lightning helix in this deck instead of lightning bolt? It has synergy with Ajani's pridemate and I don't think the 2 mana versus 1 mana lightning bolt matters all that much.
I think helix is really just bolts 5-8, the synergy with Pridemate is nice but not something I'd trade bolt's efficiency for.
I'm a big fan of outpost siege. Naming Khans and given our low curve means we almost always get to play the exiled card, and having the extra dig is very strong. It really lets you take over stalled out games in the grindfests this deck likes to produce. Naming Dragons can also give you that extra damage when you need it. Naming dragons and then swinging with myr tokens is great, even if your opponent blocks, they're going to still take damage. Personally, I've found that I normally name Khans unless naming dragons will win me the game in 2-3 turns. So if you're playing around with outpost siege, treat it like a card advantage spell with random damage upside instead of as another Purphoros with random card advantage upside.
Impact Tremors is also super interesting, being able to run 4 of them, have multiples of the field, and having the chance to run them out turn 2 is great. But the 2 mana cost also makes our turn sequencing really awkward, I've found it tough to properly sequence my turns so that all the triggers stack as efficiently as possible, although that's probably more of a practice thing than a deck issue.
I've found it tough to properly sequence my turns so that all the triggers stack as efficiently as possible, although that's probably more of a practice thing than a deck issue.
I feel the same way about our curve. Our first few turns are always a hard decision about what triggers we're willing to give up on. once we get up and running and get out one of our card drawing cards (Mentor of the Meek, Ranger of Eos, Outpost Siege or Dark Confidant in a black build) out turns just get mean. being able to drop a few cards a turn that trigger our ETB's is the goal. It just means you have to sequence your first few turns in the most advantageous way possible.
I think this card is just way to much mana for this deck. there are way better cards that do this ability for much less and we do not need that many creatures with this ability. having 1 norin in play is usually enough to fuel this deck and he is ridiculously hard to remove. Saltskitter would either come out way to late to matter or just die to removal. Norin is wary of spells, Saltskitter is only wary of other creatures.
I'm a big fan of outpost siege. Naming Khans and given our low curve means we almost always get to play the exiled card, and having the extra dig is very strong. It really lets you take over stalled out games in the grindfests this deck likes to produce. Naming Dragons can also give you that extra damage when you need it. Naming dragons and then swinging with myr tokens is great, even if your opponent blocks, they're going to still take damage. Personally, I've found that I normally name Khans unless naming dragons will win me the game in 2-3 turns. So if you're playing around with outpost siege, treat it like a card advantage spell with random damage upside instead of as another Purphoros with random card advantage upside.
I also want to try out outpost. That card advantage sounds really nice in this deck. However I don't want to increase my 4 cmc count. Currently have 3 rangers and 2 Purphoros. If I would consider outpost I would most likely cut my Purphoros (at least one for sure) and another 1 drop possibly. I wouldn't put my 4 cmc above 6.
I created an account specifically to reply to this topic. Since I've been playing Norin as a commander for quite some time, I'm very enthousiastic about this Modern thread.
Anybody tested Commune with Lava yet? Ever since is has been spoiled, my expectations of it have been high. Surely it will cost quite some mana to make it work and you don't want it in your opening hand (so I guess you should just run one or two), but late game my guess is that it'll be a better version of Ranger of Eos - especially when you're not relying on a Legion Loyalist hanging somewhere in your library. Because Commune with Lava is an instant, you could just let Norin do his thing, hang on to your Bolt or Path, wait till your opponent's end step en basically Draw X.
Thoughts on this?
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I think it's worse than ranger of eos. for 4 mana rangrr of eos gets you a 3/2 and two guys of your choice. If you cast commune with lava for 4 you draw two random cards for a turn. it's only better if you can cast it for a lot more. If you're going to run it I'd only recommend 1 copy, you really only want it late game when you have a lot of mana, and I feel like you would want a smaller number of 4 drops in a deck with commune
I'm a big fan of outpost siege. Naming Khans and given our low curve means we almost always get to play the exiled card, and having the extra dig is very strong. It really lets you take over stalled out games in the grindfests this deck likes to produce. Naming Dragons can also give you that extra damage when you need it. Naming dragons and then swinging with myr tokens is great, even if your opponent blocks, they're going to still take damage. Personally, I've found that I normally name Khans unless naming dragons will win me the game in 2-3 turns. So if you're playing around with outpost siege, treat it like a card advantage spell with random damage upside instead of as another Purphoros with random card advantage upside.
I also want to try out outpost. That card advantage sounds really nice in this deck. However I don't want to increase my 4 cmc count. Currently have 3 rangers and 2 Purphoros. If I would consider outpost I would most likely cut my Purphoros (at least one for sure) and another 1 drop possibly. I wouldn't put my 4 cmc above 6.
Honestly I think Siege replaces Ranger. Ranger is more explosive and better on an empty boardstate, while Siege provides inevitability and potentially winning the game with unblockable damage on a stalled out board. Siege also gets way better when your opponent is running X/1s like lingering souls or dark confidant. And while we're talking random upside, Siege is cheaper for budget players, which is nice. Really it just depends on how you like to play and what your meta is like.
Running both is also an interesting idea, but if I were to do that I'd drop Purphoros completely and drop some number of helixes/champions for some number of impact tremors to make up for the loss of damage. I also agree that we can't go above 5-6 four drops without adding lands, which we don't want to do because of our reliance on so many 1-2 drops.
Anybody tested Commune with Lava yet? Ever since is has been spoiled, my expectations of it have been high. Surely it will cost quite some mana to make it work and you don't want it in your opening hand (so I guess you should just run one or two), but late game my guess is that it'll be a better version of Ranger of Eos - especially when you're not relying on a Legion Loyalist hanging somewhere in your library. Because Commune with Lava is an instant, you could just let Norin do his thing, hang on to your Bolt or Path, wait till your opponent's end step en basically Draw X.
You generally won't find yourself with more than 5-6 mana in any given game, so the question is does seeing 3-4 cards worth more than one of our other curve toppers, Purphoros, God of the Forge, Ranger of Eos, and Outpost Siege. And I think ultimately the answer is no. Purphoros quickly closes out games, Ranger finds us exactly what we need to restart a board, and Siege shows us more cards and gives us more inevitability.
But its definitely a card that's worth testing, and since its so cheap its not like you'll be out a ton of money if it doesn't work out.
h0lydiva, would you be open to -1 Norin, +1 Lightning Berserker? I've found that 2 triggers per turn are better than 1, and I get double Norin too often even with only 3 of him. Lightning Berserker can also be tutored for with Ranger, similarly pumps Champion of the Parish, and can be Dashed every turn for only R (and you don't have to swing with him). He's huge targeted discard bait and probably big removal bait, but I personally keep finding 4 Norins to be too many, especially with legal quasi-Norins.
Why is everyone running return to the ranks instead of immortal servitude? It seems like if you are swept by a pyroclasm or something 4 mana to get back all your 1 cc creatures is much stronger than 4 mana to get back just 2 of them. Are people regularly casting it for only 1 or taking advantage of the convoke that much?
Basically everything in the deck is cmc 1 anyway.... Am I missing something?
I don't like Commune with Lava for this deck. Ranger is good late game because you can fetch out a Legion Loyalist to finish out the game. A 20/20 Ajani's Pridemate is no good if they can chump it. I also don't like that you can only play those cards until the end of turn. I think how you pace yourself with this deck is more important than people think.
I would say that convoke is the main reason. Sure if you get board wiped but you have a Norin out with chamber then you can make it up for the most part. You only need 2 solid mana for ranks were servitude needs to have 4 (at least) solid mana no matter what. They are both worth looking into of course.
So we did talk a little about helix but what about having a 1 or 2 of Boros Charm. I haven't tried it but just a thought.
Why is everyone running return to the ranks instead of immortal servitude? It seems like if you are swept by a pyroclasm or something 4 mana to get back all your 1 cc creatures is much stronger than 4 mana to get back just 2 of them. Are people regularly casting it for only 1 or taking advantage of the convoke that much?
Basically everything in the deck is cmc 1 anyway.... Am I missing something?
Ajani's Pridemate is 2. It's one of the cards (along with Champion of the Parish) that is still relevant in the late-game.
Has anyone tried going RWB and splashing black for souls+vizkopa guildmage and potentially cutting purple man? to lower curve and see how it performed?
i think in a non-champion deck it could be good.
I do not like vizkopa guildmage. his abilities cost too much. I prefer blood artist and dark confidant in a RWB version. this deck runs only a few lands and you won't always have extra lands to tap for this ability. But at least he's human, and he can give CoP lifelink which is just mean. he could be worth testing
You have 7 Sacred Foundry.
My built is somehow like your approach (less attacking) although I think I overdid it with 10 blinkers (4 Norin, 4 Glitterfang and 2 Trusted Advisor).
I also have Spirit Bonds to maximize the ETB effect.
The decks I've faced are not tier decks as we have scarcity of Modern events here and but it did show promise. Just need to configure the land base (I'm only using basic lands except for a singleton Kher Keep and Tomb of The Spirit Dragon) and make the W mana more consistent.
I have no card drawers except Military Intelligence (I use Norwin and a Spirit token to trigger this).
My most expensive card is a couple of Growing Ranks which usually seals the game if the opponent is not able to answer it on their turn.
I don't have any removal on my list as I don't have the PtEs yet but a set would be my removal suit.
sorry, here's the fixed mana base
4 Marsh Flats
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Godless Shrines
1 Bloodcrypt
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
5 Plains
its pretty week to blood moon, but otherwise it usually gives me no trouble.
Makes sense. I will post my build later. Apologies since i am not familiar with my decklist and I don't have access to it right now.
I don't know with you but I built mine with only basic lands (of course except the singleton Kher Keep, Tomb of the Spirit Dragon and set of Evolving Wilds) and the only card that requires double mana is Growing Ranks so I am seeing that I can mainboard Blood Moon. Although I have troubles with getting W mana needed to fuel Spirit Bonds on my case but my deck and your deck can have a Blood Moon on the mainboard (your only card that requires double W mana is Return to the Ranks). Granted you also switch your mana base to basic lands.
I get it that you run Dark Confidant to draw cards, trigger Genesis Chamber and fuel Champion of the Parish but would you consider using Dark Tutelage or Phyrexian Arena instead? I know they are a turn slower and not a creature but they're little less vulnerable to removal.
4 Glitterfang
2 Trusted Advisor
4 Soul's Attendant
4 Suture Priest
4 Path to Exile
4 Spirit Bonds
4 Impact Tremors
2 Growing Ranks
2 Military Intelligence
1 Path of Bravery
1 Raid Bombardment
1 Tomb of the Spirit Dragon
4 Evolving Wilds
2 Island
5 Mountain
7 Plains
I played against 3 decks and I only lost to one deck ala Scapeshift style without the Scapeshift. This list is a bit clunky and the mana base is a bit painful but I guess that leaves an option for a mainboard Blood Moon.
I would run either a 3/3 split of trusted advisor and glitterfang, or even 4/2. have him stick arund unti lnext upkeep means her can block some myr tokens or chump block a bigger creature.
Your mana base seems fine for a budget list, i think the tomb might be unnecessary as it is dependent on the genesis chamber and you already have plenty of lifegain.
I recommend you take out 4 noncreature spells and replace them with 2 more creatures and 2 more land.
The only other thing I can recommend is to cut blue entirley and replace it with mentor of the meek. It'll smooth out the mana better and you're not getting anything from blue that you can't also get in white.
the more noncreature cards you add the worse this deck gets. also those cards are more mana than Dark Confidant, and this deck thrives on playing multiple cards a turn, so they slow that down. Phyrexian arena is way better than Dark tutelage.
I'm fine with removal in this deck, there are a lot of creatures in it and they can't one for one all of them. and if they pull off a pyroclasm then I have Return to the Ranks to recover (hopefully)
Current list:
3 Genesis Chamber
//Creature (25)
3 Ajani's Pridemate
4 Champion of the Parish
1 Legion Loyalist
2 Lightning Berserker
4 Norin the Wary
3 Ranger of Eos
4 Soul Warden
4 Soul's Attendant
//Instant (8)
2 Dismember
2 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
2 Purphoros, God of the Forge
//Sorcery (1)
1 Return to the Ranks
//Land (21)
4 Arid Mesa
3 Cavern of Souls
2 Clifftop Retreat
2 Mountain
6 Plains
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Blood Moon
1 Dismember
3 Electrickery
2 Mark of Asylum
2 Rest in Peace
1 Stony Silence
2 Suppression Field
2 Wear // Tear
Possible might switch 1 Norin out for another Return to the Ranks.
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Dismember is a really good card in this deck. Another 1 mana removal spell is fantastic but you don't always need that much removal in your main deck. Depends on your meta I guess
It seems I am not having issues with the creature count.
I certainly agree with you on adding more lands as this is really an issue. Let alone getting the right land you need to cast that specific card.
I'll think about the Tomb issue and I am actually leaning about your opinion on it.
I'll probably take out the Military Intelligence and replace it with 2 lands and stick with a 2 color build which means Trusted Advisor have to go and be replaced by Lightning Berserker. It will be a 4 Lightning Berserker/2 Glitterfang distribution.
Suture Priest has his contributions so you might consider running it too.
As for MoM and the other staple cards (Ranger of Eos, Champion of the Parish, Adjani's Pridemante, etc) they are on my list so I would have a back up plan in case this build won't work.
Thanks for your opinion about Dark Confidant but I would stick to two colors for now and that card is pricey for my budget right now.
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I feel like twin should be a decent match up for us, are they just killing your soul sisters? If we have 1 soul sister out they can't combo with exarch and if we have 2 they can't combo with pestermite.
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I think helix is really just bolts 5-8, the synergy with Pridemate is nice but not something I'd trade bolt's efficiency for.
I'm a big fan of outpost siege. Naming Khans and given our low curve means we almost always get to play the exiled card, and having the extra dig is very strong. It really lets you take over stalled out games in the grindfests this deck likes to produce. Naming Dragons can also give you that extra damage when you need it. Naming dragons and then swinging with myr tokens is great, even if your opponent blocks, they're going to still take damage. Personally, I've found that I normally name Khans unless naming dragons will win me the game in 2-3 turns. So if you're playing around with outpost siege, treat it like a card advantage spell with random damage upside instead of as another Purphoros with random card advantage upside.
Impact Tremors is also super interesting, being able to run 4 of them, have multiples of the field, and having the chance to run them out turn 2 is great. But the 2 mana cost also makes our turn sequencing really awkward, I've found it tough to properly sequence my turns so that all the triggers stack as efficiently as possible, although that's probably more of a practice thing than a deck issue.
I feel the same way about our curve. Our first few turns are always a hard decision about what triggers we're willing to give up on. once we get up and running and get out one of our card drawing cards (Mentor of the Meek, Ranger of Eos, Outpost Siege or Dark Confidant in a black build) out turns just get mean. being able to drop a few cards a turn that trigger our ETB's is the goal. It just means you have to sequence your first few turns in the most advantageous way possible.
I think this card is just way to much mana for this deck. there are way better cards that do this ability for much less and we do not need that many creatures with this ability. having 1 norin in play is usually enough to fuel this deck and he is ridiculously hard to remove. Saltskitter would either come out way to late to matter or just die to removal. Norin is wary of spells, Saltskitter is only wary of other creatures.
I also want to try out outpost. That card advantage sounds really nice in this deck. However I don't want to increase my 4 cmc count. Currently have 3 rangers and 2 Purphoros. If I would consider outpost I would most likely cut my Purphoros (at least one for sure) and another 1 drop possibly. I wouldn't put my 4 cmc above 6.
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Anybody tested Commune with Lava yet? Ever since is has been spoiled, my expectations of it have been high. Surely it will cost quite some mana to make it work and you don't want it in your opening hand (so I guess you should just run one or two), but late game my guess is that it'll be a better version of Ranger of Eos - especially when you're not relying on a Legion Loyalist hanging somewhere in your library. Because Commune with Lava is an instant, you could just let Norin do his thing, hang on to your Bolt or Path, wait till your opponent's end step en basically Draw X.
Thoughts on this?
Honestly I think Siege replaces Ranger. Ranger is more explosive and better on an empty boardstate, while Siege provides inevitability and potentially winning the game with unblockable damage on a stalled out board. Siege also gets way better when your opponent is running X/1s like lingering souls or dark confidant. And while we're talking random upside, Siege is cheaper for budget players, which is nice. Really it just depends on how you like to play and what your meta is like.
Running both is also an interesting idea, but if I were to do that I'd drop Purphoros completely and drop some number of helixes/champions for some number of impact tremors to make up for the loss of damage. I also agree that we can't go above 5-6 four drops without adding lands, which we don't want to do because of our reliance on so many 1-2 drops.
You generally won't find yourself with more than 5-6 mana in any given game, so the question is does seeing 3-4 cards worth more than one of our other curve toppers, Purphoros, God of the Forge, Ranger of Eos, and Outpost Siege. And I think ultimately the answer is no. Purphoros quickly closes out games, Ranger finds us exactly what we need to restart a board, and Siege shows us more cards and gives us more inevitability.
But its definitely a card that's worth testing, and since its so cheap its not like you'll be out a ton of money if it doesn't work out.
Basically everything in the deck is cmc 1 anyway.... Am I missing something?
So we did talk a little about helix but what about having a 1 or 2 of Boros Charm. I haven't tried it but just a thought.
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Big Johnny.