I'm not sure why people is so concerned about match up against Liliana of the Veil. Decks that plays liliana isn't the worst opponent we have to face. I think Dryad Arbor in a three color deck will not work properly. We'd have to play 4 Wooded Foothills to utilize it and it not the best fetchland for us.
With that being said I have tried discarding it with Lotleth Troll and returning it to hand with Life from the Loam before and it was much fun.
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I'm not sure why people is so concerned about match up against Liliana of the Veil. Decks that plays liliana isn't the worst opponent we have to face. I think Dryad Arbor in a three color deck will not work properly. We'd have to play 4 Wooded Foothills to utilize it and it not the best fetchland for us.
With that being said I have tried discarding it with Lotleth Troll and returning it to hand with Life from the Loam before and it was much fun.
I have A LOT of problemns with Liliana. Jund, Mardu, Death Shadow, Abzam uses Liliana. It's the only card that can kill our Flayer.
Are you playing any weenies (firebrand, courier, even caryatid?) - I expect the best way to deal with sacrifice effects in this deck, once you know they’re out there, is to keep weenie sac fodder on the board. Don’t let Lily force a Flayer sac because it’s your only creature.
If you’re still playing old school ‘all the fat’ - just Zetalpas and reavers and Samut - that could be a problem.
Are you playing any weenies (firebrand, courier, even caryatid?) - I expect the best way to deal with sacrifice effects in this deck, once you know they’re out there, is to keep weenie sac fodder on the board. Don’t let Lily force a Flayer sac because it’s your only creature.
If you’re still playing old school ‘all the fat’ - just Zetalpas and reavers and Samut - that could be a problem.
I want Firebrand and Caryatid in the GY, not on the battlefield. The only creature that I want on the ground is Troll... It's small chances to have both in hands.
If your only use for Caryatid is grave pitching there are better candidates (like Striped Riverwinder which comes with its own pitching mechanism). Caryatid is in this deck over other hexproofers in large part to get played.
I’m not saying playing Firebrand to hang around is what you want to do in general ... but it is a tactical play to deal with Lili. If you know their deck is likely to drop Lili and make you sac, the tactical move is to play around it by leaving a saccable body around you otherwise might not have. It makes more sense than including and playing a summoning sick land for the same purpose.
If your only use for Caryatid is grave pitching there are better candidates (like Striped Riverwinder which comes with its own pitching mechanism). Caryatid is in this deck over other hexproofers in large part to get played.
I’m not saying playing Firebrand to hang around is what you want to do in general ... but it is a tactical play to deal with Lili. If you know their deck is likely to drop Lili and make you sac, the tactical move is to play around it by leaving a saccable body around you otherwise might not have. It makes more sense than including and playing a summoning sick land for the same purpose.
I understand what you are saying, but I see Dryad Arbor as one more option to deal with Lili. What's the problem of using it? I only see benefits.
It's a summoning sick land that has no keywords and can't produce black nor red mana? I mean I hardly see any benefit of it - if the sole purpose is to have Lili sac fodder, at least Ornithopter would put Flying in your graveyard, two card types to fuel delirium for Traverse the Ulvenwald (I know Dryad Arbor is two card types too, but you've likely got a Land in grave from a fetch anyway), and not cost you a usable mana to play in your first two turns.
Isn't the most worrisome line of play that you drop a nice hexproof Soulflayer to an empty board on T2 (after a T1 fetch into Blood Crypt and Faithless Looting), then your opponent drops Liliana of the Veil and makes you sac it on T3? How does Dryad Arbor stop this? If you played Dryad Arbor on T1 or T2, you didn't play Soulflayer on T2 because you played a land that can't produce black (or for that matter, any mana the turn it lands).
By what measure is Dryad Arbor better than Ornithopter in your proposal? That it can eventually produce your third-most-relevant color of mana, but not the turn it lands?
Ornithopter is tutorable by fetches? You always play Flayer at turn 2? If you do Grisly at turn 2 and Flayer in turn 3? So you will have one open fetch to tutor your dryad.
I am going to try this list this FNM. I feel soulflayer is too weak without the hexproof. Also this deck may not reach as far or grind out games like H1 does. It also adds risk in the form of hand flooding with uncastables. Green splash is not needed.
I still like Striped Riverwinder in metas where you feel you absolutely need the hexproof. Having its own built-in self looting is nice if the other stars don't align for you.
Personally I think this list its the future of archetype with Soulflayer as a part of strategy not the main one.Bring me back to try evolve this deck.
Some points of discussion about that one.
Just a single Tasigur in maindeck seems pretty unnecessary. I think about Hazoret to fill that slot and another one on SB. Add Indestructible keyword, is hasty and a very good ability for grindy games.
Splash for green is for Engineered Explosives on the SB that could be set up to CMC 3. Maybe this splash would be explored adding some Assassin’s Trophy(1-2 copies I guess). Not forget 2 Ancient Grudge too.
I think replace Leyline of the Void on SB for Faerie Macabre and Ravenous trap, firstable due this price(near 20 tix on MTGO)and second because Faerie Macabre is an unconterable ability adding Flying keyword for Soulflayer.
@Mr.Axioma
I would play some hexproof creature for your deck because your game plan without soulflayer seems underwhelming in comparison to the Hollow One/Soulflayer hybrid deck. For pump spell I would try something that can be used on Swiftblade Vindicator like Grave Strength instead of Tainted Strike.
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Here is the deck I am testing right now. I am trying to solve the issue of not having enough turn 1 play due to lack of 1 mana spells (traverse doesn't really count as turn 1 play). Chancellor of the Tangle turns Grisly Salvage and Lotleth Troll into a turn 1 playable spell which can help us cast Soulflayer faster. Chancellor of the Dross helps us stay alive against fast deck and help us win faster with life drain. It pretty much Creeping Chill. I believe having an additional source of damage is crucial in the current meta. With 7 Chancellors in the deck there are high chance that atleast one of them will be in our open hand. Reason why I only play 2 Zetalpa is because I haven't seen many control decks lately.
My current competitive league score is 1-4 and 3-2.
My current score is 1-4, 3-2, 3-2, 4-1, 3-2, and 2-3. I absolutely love Chancellor of the Dross but I am not sure if Chancellor of the Tangle is necessary. It sometimes doesn't help at all even if I get one in open hand and it the worst when I draw it. At least Chancellor of the Dross can be replaced with Chromanticore and Drogkol Reaver which is pretty much the same keyword wise when you draw it. On the other hand, Chancellor of the Tangle has to replace card like Collective Brutality and Zetalpa, Primal Dawn which is absolutely better if I draw it, plus it not bad having them in open hand either. I might reduce the number of Green Chancellor to 0~2 depending on my further play testing. To be fair, I've won a few games from playing Lotleth Troll and Grisly Salvage on turn 1 so it wasn't completely useless.
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Hmm, Chancellor of the Dross is interesting, but I'm not convinced it's better than Drogskol Reaver. Reaver is MUCH better to Delve. I do like the copy of tutorable Rampager to make a double striking Soulflayer do a lot more dmg though. If I play this deck again, I'll have to consider adding a copy.
I wouldn't try to be cute with Chancellor of the Tangle. You will lose a lot of consistency I think. If it had better abilities, it could be a consideration.
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LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
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With that being said I have tried discarding it with Lotleth Troll and returning it to hand with Life from the Loam before and it was much fun.
I have A LOT of problemns with Liliana. Jund, Mardu, Death Shadow, Abzam uses Liliana. It's the only card that can kill our Flayer.
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If you’re still playing old school ‘all the fat’ - just Zetalpas and reavers and Samut - that could be a problem.
I want Firebrand and Caryatid in the GY, not on the battlefield. The only creature that I want on the ground is Troll... It's small chances to have both in hands.
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I’m not saying playing Firebrand to hang around is what you want to do in general ... but it is a tactical play to deal with Lili. If you know their deck is likely to drop Lili and make you sac, the tactical move is to play around it by leaving a saccable body around you otherwise might not have. It makes more sense than including and playing a summoning sick land for the same purpose.
I understand what you are saying, but I see Dryad Arbor as one more option to deal with Lili. What's the problem of using it? I only see benefits.
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Isn't the most worrisome line of play that you drop a nice hexproof Soulflayer to an empty board on T2 (after a T1 fetch into Blood Crypt and Faithless Looting), then your opponent drops Liliana of the Veil and makes you sac it on T3? How does Dryad Arbor stop this? If you played Dryad Arbor on T1 or T2, you didn't play Soulflayer on T2 because you played a land that can't produce black (or for that matter, any mana the turn it lands).
By what measure is Dryad Arbor better than Ornithopter in your proposal? That it can eventually produce your third-most-relevant color of mana, but not the turn it lands?
I'm sorry, but i'm gonna test.
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1-1 vs BW Vampire
2-0 vs Mardu (Leyline os Sanctity saved my ass)
2-1 vs G Tron
2-1 vs Storm
I'll put my list later.
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Nice result! How was mainboard Rhonas, Thrun, 2 Stomping Ground and 2 Forest?
@Bradpt
I can’t wait to see your decklist!
4 Flamewake Phoenix
3 Gifted Aetherborn
4 Hollow One
4 Soulflayer
4 Street Wraith
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 Zetalpa, Primal Dawn
4 Burning Inquiry
2 Collective Brutality
4 Faithless Looting
4 Goblin Lore
3 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Mountain
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Swamp
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Collective Brutality
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Fatal Push
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Alpine Moon
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Leyline of the Void
2 Thoughtseize
Idk what to think. lol.
Your version of the printed list is missing 4 Zetalpas.
Some points of discussion about that one.
Just a single Tasigur in maindeck seems pretty unnecessary. I think about Hazoret to fill that slot and another one on SB. Add Indestructible keyword, is hasty and a very good ability for grindy games.
Splash for green is for Engineered Explosives on the SB that could be set up to CMC 3. Maybe this splash would be explored adding some Assassin’s Trophy(1-2 copies I guess). Not forget 2 Ancient Grudge too.
I think replace Leyline of the Void on SB for Faerie Macabre and Ravenous trap, firstable due this price(near 20 tix on MTGO)and second because Faerie Macabre is an unconterable ability adding Flying keyword for Soulflayer.
I just brew this list inspired by Swiftblade Vindicator. I know Mardu is very unorthodox, but also I like it.
¿What do you think?
Deck: Marduflayer
//Main
4 Soulflayer
1 Tainted Strike
//Robo
4 Burning Inquiry
4 Faithless Looting
//Keywords
4 Bomat Courier
1 Falkenrath Aristocrat
4 Flamewake Phoenix
4 Gifted Aetherborn
2 Hazoret the Fervent
4 Swiftblade Vindicator
3 Zetalpa, Primal Dawn
//Tierras
4 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Concealed Courtyard
4 Dragonskull Summit
2 Inspiring Vantage
2 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Swamp
//Remoción a objetivo
1 Lightning Axe
4 Lightning Bolt
Display deck statistics
I would play some hexproof creature for your deck because your game plan without soulflayer seems underwhelming in comparison to the Hollow One/Soulflayer hybrid deck. For pump spell I would try something that can be used on Swiftblade Vindicator like Grave Strength instead of Tainted Strike.
Lands(17)
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Mountain
2 Swamp
2 Overgrown Tomb
3 Blood Crypt
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
Spells(14)
2 Collective Brutality
4 Burning Inquiry
4 Goblin Lore
4 Faithless Looting
Creatures(29)
4 Flameblade Adept
4 Hollow One
4 Street Wraith
4 Flamewake Phoenix
4 Soulflayer
4 Zetalpa, Primal Dawn
3 Gifted Aetherborn
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Hazoret, The Fervent
4x Soulflayer
3x Lotleth Troll
3x Bomat Courier
4x Sylvan Caryatid
4x Samut, Voice of Dissent
4x Chancellor of the Dross
3x Chancellor of the Tangle
2x Zetalpa, Primal Dawn
2x Ghor-Clan Rampager
1x Hazoret the Fervent
4x Traverse the Ulvenwald
4x Faithless Looting
4x Grisly Salvage
Land x18
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Wooded Foothills
1x Cavern of Souls
2x Overgrown Tomb
2x Blood Crypt
2x Swamp
1x Forest
3x Thoughtseize
2x Collective Brutality
3x Damping Sphere
2x Assassin's Trophy
1x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Leyline of the Void
1x Engineered Explosives
Here is the deck I am testing right now. I am trying to solve the issue of not having enough turn 1 play due to lack of 1 mana spells (traverse doesn't really count as turn 1 play). Chancellor of the Tangle turns Grisly Salvage and Lotleth Troll into a turn 1 playable spell which can help us cast Soulflayer faster. Chancellor of the Dross helps us stay alive against fast deck and help us win faster with life drain. It pretty much Creeping Chill. I believe having an additional source of damage is crucial in the current meta. With 7 Chancellors in the deck there are high chance that atleast one of them will be in our open hand. Reason why I only play 2 Zetalpa is because I haven't seen many control decks lately.
My current competitive league score is 1-4 and 3-2.
4x Soulflayer
3x Lotleth Troll
3x Bomat Courier
4x Sylvan Caryatid
4x Samut, Voice of Dissent
4x Chancellor of the Dross
4x Zetalpa, Primal Dawn
2x Ghor-Clan Rampager
1x Hazoret the Fervent
Spell x13
4x Traverse the Ulvenwald
4x Faithless Looting
4x Grisly Salvage
1x Collective Brutality
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Wooded Foothills
1x Cavern of Souls
2x Overgrown Tomb
2x Blood Crypt
2x Swamp
1x Forest
3x Thoughtseize
1x Collective Brutality
3x Damping Sphere
2x Assassin's Trophy
1x Ancient Grudge
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Leyline of the Void
2x Engineered Explosives
My 5-0 match up was
G1 Mardu Pyromancer 2-0
G2 5c Human 2-1
G3 UR Phoenix 2-1
G4 GR Valakut 2-0
G5 Naya Norin Sisters 2-0
With Chancellor of the Dross it was easier to one shot an opponent with double strike Soulflayer pumped with Ghor-Clan Rampager. Unfortunately, Chancellor of the Tangle was replaced entirely with Zetalpa, Primal Dawn but I believe I made the right choice.
I wouldn't try to be cute with Chancellor of the Tangle. You will lose a lot of consistency I think. If it had better abilities, it could be a consideration.
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC