Snap judgement: Not worth it. I think if someone wants to build an Intruder Alarm version of this deck (with 4 copies), it might be worth it. In that case, I'd swap out Cloudstone Curios for Intruder Alarms. Intruder Alarm as a 1-of in a deck like yours (the one you're testing currently), doesn't seem like the right fit.
If you're testing out a dedicated Beck // Call / GU Combo elves build, I'd say to go with Intruder Alarm (and 4 of them). If not, you might as well not muddle the mixture by running a BG elf along with a U enchantment in a mono-Green deck!
PS - I do have to say, I've been thinking about this card for the SPEED version of the deck (since it already runs Breeding Pool in the main. Don't know if it's an add on, or in place of something; but I do know one thing: Intruder Alarm is an Enchantment and Cloudstone Curio is an Artifact. It's much easier to kill off an artifact than it is to kill off an Enchantment...
-Yawg
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From void evolved Phyrexia. Great Yawgmoth, Father of Machines, saw its perfection. Thus The Grand Evolution began. — Phyrexian Scriptures
Yeah...Intruder Alarm is certainly a card to think about. It can't fit in my current build, no. It would have to be re-worked to be built around...it would be an entirely different list. Also, even if only "splashing" for a single card...3 colors is as far as you can go AND THAT'S WITH Utopia Sprawl and Abundant Growth....I splash black for Shaman of Pack and a few sideboard cards and red for Kessig Wolf Run and one Bonfire of the Damned in the board...and even with this it would be darn near impossible to add a third color.
But in the Speed Version (or the "Classic" version as I like to call it because of how closely it resembles Matt Nass's list) I could totally see a 1-of in the deck as additional combo support.
I'm fairly certain my build is getting relatively close to "set"...there are always 1-2 slots to play around with; but my current list probably won't see much change until/unless BFZ presents us some new and awesome elves.
In all honesty, I am HORRIBLE with Intruder Alarm. I simply haven't played it nearly enough. I've just always felt that Cloudstone Curio was simply the best "engine" card for Elf Combo; but that's more of my preference than a "fact".
With this you can play Heath, Pop for a land (Breeding Pool), and play Arbor Elf. Turn 2, you play the forest, drop Curio and pass.
Turn 3, you play Nettle, Heritage, Tap for all for GGG, Play Dwynen’s Elite and combo into infinite elves.
Now, take the same scenario and sub in Intruder Alarm. You DO NOT get the same result. You’ve just effectively turned all your Elves into psudo-Nettles where you play an elf and untap your other elves to replay more elves. But you have nothing to feed that into. You have no mana sink. You also don’t have a way to ‘chain’ your elves together. You have no Draw Engine. Now, if you had a card like Soul of the Harvest, played a Beck, or already have a Curio in play with a draw elf (Visionary); now you can go infinite.
What I am saying is this: Intruder Alarm is NOT the same as Cloudstone Curio. So you can’t just add 1 Alarm to the deck. It doesn’t do the same thing. If you had 7 elves in hand in the late game, with a Heritage Druid in play; you can basically go like an Affinity Deck and dump your hand. But then what? Hope to topdeck a card that matters? If you have great board position with 1-2 elves in hand and you draw Alarm, now what? for the most part, Alarm says "your creatures have Vigilance."
The way we’re building our decks (all versions) lead us all to Curio, not Alarm. I’m not saying that Alarm is bad, but it needs a specific build to work. Specific cards to break. Its needs a draw engine so that you can play out your whole deck, and sink all your mana into.
PS – Played a few games last night. Not great results. Will post later tonight. Basically went 0-3. Only won 1 of the 7 games played.
-Yawg
PPS - i'm not trying to sound negative, as a matter fact I'm trying to figure out a way to make the speed version of this deck more consistent. I'm actually thinking of outside the box methods to achieve our goal. I don't want to come off as a nay saying member of this thread.
Okay, so if you don’t know, Lantern Control is an annoying ‘combo/control’ style deck that runs like this: You start with earlydiscard or a bauble of some kind. The baubles I’m talking about are Codex Shredder, Ghoulcaller's Bell and Mishra's Bauble. You have a really slow start to this deck. You take a ton of damage, and then you stabilize. All of your baubles and cards cost 1cc or less. To dig, they use Ancient Stirrings and the baubles themselves. After they’ve played out their hand, removed any disruption, and have enough baubles in play, they play Ensnaring Bridge. After bridge is landed, they can either mill you for 3+ each turn, or they have Lantern of Insight in play to have the top card revealed. They’ll leave you with the lands or unimportant cards on top (like a creature) and mill away cards that will stop you (like Reclamation Sage).
Game 1 - So, he starts out with one of his baubles (I think it was Codex Shredder). Right off the bat I know what I’m playing against. So, my plan was to rush the combo, or at least rush an aggro start. I def accomplished that. I did not have the combo pieces in hand, but I had a lot of elves. I had 7 power on the board, swinging on turn 4. I took him down to 8 life, while he durdled with his baubles. He hit a few Ancient Stirrings and dropped an Ensnaring Bridge and it was over. My whole game was shut down. I didn’t have any maindecked artifact removal, I had no creatures with a 0 power that I could pump and no matter how many cards I drew, I knew he’d beat me. So, with 2 Ghoulcaller's Bells, a Codex Shredder and Lantern of Insight in play, I conceded.
Game 2 – I transformed my deck into the CoCo Elves and tried to race him. Literally the same outcome. I got him to 15 or so with aggro, and he drops Ensnaring Bridge. I was lucky enough to have drawn Reclamation Sage in my opener, so I saved it. I take out his bridge and take him to 8. By the way, he has Academy Ruins in play, so I think I can beat him the turn he’s waiting to redraw it. He has a Lantern in play and I see the next card is another Bridge. He Ancient Stirrings and lands a second one. Even if I had a Curio left in the deck (remember that I transformed post board), he had multiple baubles and a lantern in play, so I would have never drawn it anyway. GG.
Match 2 – Affinity 1-2
Game 1 – he rockets out of the gate but I actually hit the combo on turn 4. The combo was with Curio, Heritage, Nettle and Visionary. I explain I’ll draw out my deck and he concedes.
Game 2 – I transform again to the CoCo build. He rockets out and just flattens me. Now, this affinity deck looked like it wasn’t even the good kind. I saw some Myr Enforcers and it was running Islands. Didn’t see any important cards like Cranial Plating or Inkmoth Nexus, but I could have just not seen any in the game. Point was, he crushed me, and he dropped a turn 2 Pithing Needle naming Heritage Druid.
Game 3 – I go back to the combo, and I thought I could outrace him. He drops a lot and so do I, but he dropped a turn 2 and 3 Pithing Needle. I was literally crippled unter a 1 drop artifact.
***Edit: For those learning the deck and are unsure of some things, PITHING NEEDLE DOES NOT STOP HERITAGE DRUID. I was not paying attention, but Druid's ability is a 'mana ability.' It's not an obvious one like Elvish Mystic but it is exactly the same. Pithing Needle would have no effect on it.***
Match 3 – WU Control 0-2
Game 1 – I didn’t know what I was playing against and I overextended. I didn’t have the combo in hand and I was trying to outrace him. I hit for a few points of damage before he dropped a turn 4 Engineered Explosives for 1 and wiped my board. He countered every threat after that and beat me with a few ground threats and a Celestial Colonnade.
Game 2 – I added my Avoid Fates and a few other things, but I didn’t transform. I tried to race him, and did get in a bunch of damage. He was able to neutralize my threats and land Baneslayer Angel and started gaining 5 life per turn while taking me out. I tried to outramp him and land a Behemoth, but he had a Colonnade out and won with the 2 flyers I couldn’t block. All I was able to do before dying was land a Regal Force to try and draw me into the combo, but without avail.
So in summation, the night sucked. One problem was with mana, and the other was the lacking of the combo pieces. In some instances, I’d be able to land an infinite combo, but was 1-2 mana short (because I’d need to use the elves to complete the combo, but would still need to land a Curio or a Beck. The other instances I had enough mana to support a combo, but was lacking in one piece or another. I either had all the elves needed, but no Curio, or I’d have a card like Beck / Curio but nothing but 1/1 Llanowars or Mystics and no Nettles / Druids.
Right now I’m trying to think of ways to improve both (or at least 1) aspect of the deck. It’s not a matter of speed, but a matter of the opening hand. It seems like an Elf version of Amulet Bloom, where one hand will rip your opponent apart, the other hand will get you nowhere but playing out 1/1 mana dorks and hoping your opponent doesn’t laugh too hard at your efforts.
When I say outside the box, I’m really thinking OUTSIDE the box. Since I’m using GU, I’m even venturing into the realm of Prophet of Kruphix. You get to untap everything the next upkeep, and even if they kill it off, you can instantly flash in all your elves. Things like this I’m thinking about to try to improve the deck. Right now, I’m thinking of taking out the Nykthos (In my build it’s useless. You’re either winning or your losing and that’s a large amount of mana for nothing), another card in the main (prob a Mystic), and upping the land count to 19.
Thank you for the report. It is good to see the good along with the bad.
First, Pithing Needle. It specifically excepts mana abilities, so your Heritage Druid's would've been in action. If you had some out or in hand, I'm betting this would've changed the face of both games. Really only your fetches, Ezuri, and Arbor Elves are vulnerable to the needle.
Since Arbor Elves are vulnerable to needle and you aren't running Utopia Sprawl, perhaps max out on Mystics first and then fill in with arbors?
I agree that your build does not look like it wants Nykthos. Your only mana sink is Ezuri, and I'm betting you can activate him once just fine with your other elves. Nykthos really shines with X cost spells like Genesis Wave and Weird Harvest.
Lantern is tough. I've been thinking about how I would fight it, as like you I have no 0 power creatures that I can pump. Currently, pre-board, my best option is hope to combo and drop Shaman of the Pack a few times. I don't know if the deck is prevalent enough to change your sideboard or mainboard for though.
Have you considered switching the order of your transformation. I really like your idea to transform your deck between games, butI've been thinking all week that it should probably go Collected -> Curio. The reason being an opponent will bring in the same hate like Anger of the Gods and Whipflare against both versions of Elves. But being collected first means artifact hate won't be added and may even be removed.
Also, the combo version just does better versus those sweepers. So it would be better to be in Curio mode after sideboard, since your opponent will bring those in.
Yawg, thanks for the write up! I definitely agree with you about getting rid of Nyxthos. It just doesn't do anything. I am curious, did you find the Cavern of Souls to be useful at all. I am considering dropping one or both of them due to the bad interaction with Arbor Elf.
...First, Pithing Needle. It specifically excepts mana abilities, so your Heritage Druid's would've been in action. If you had some out or in hand, I'm betting this would've changed the face of both games. Really only your fetches, Ezuri, and Arbor Elves are vulnerable to the needle.
Hahaha... I remember the guy, in game 3, saying something to the effect of 'you need to learn your deck better,' in response to me letting him know that I'm testing a learning a new build. It was game 3, he'd already beaten me, and then signed off real quick. I wasn't sure of what he meant, but I was looking at the board state trying to see if I missed something. Did he notice I could go infinite and I missed it? I didn't read Pithing Needle close enough. I would have had him games 2 (and even game 3) if my Druids weren't 'locked up.' Wowzers. I guess I was thinking about Llanowar Elves-style 'mana abilities' and didn't realize that Druid's is the same damn thing... Well, you can take my report, re-write it to say "if I wasn't stupid, I'd have wrecked the affinity player 3-0. Thank you for the clarification.
Lantern is tough. I've been thinking about how I would fight it, as like you I have no 0 power creatures that I can pump. Currently, pre-board, my best option is hope to combo and drop Shaman of the Pack a few times. I don't know if the deck is prevalent enough to change your sideboard or mainboard for though.
Ya, honestly, you either combo out faster than he can find his Bridge, or you have some way to access Shaman of the Pack in the midst of your comboing. All I have to say is that Lantern is a fringe deck that you don't need to worry about too much. If I was gonna sideboard without hurting my overall gameplan, it'd be with Reclamation Sages or even Nature's Claim/Naturalize. I still wouldn't worry about it thought. I'm a Merfolk player as well, and we mainly fold to Affinity. Worst matchup by far. You can either prep for the matchup, or hope to not play it. Most 'Folk players agree, why waste SB spots for 1 deck. Just hope you come on top or not play it at all.
Have you considered switching the order of your transformation.
No, but I hadn't thought about it in reverse order. I guess it's a chicken-and-the-egg scenario. I mean, either way you look at it, what they're sb-ing isn't going to be effective. If they side in Artifact hate, or if they side out artifact hate, it makes no difference. They're still going to be searching for a combo that isn't there, or not knowing there's a combo at all. I think that the transformative SB can go either way.
@dstathis
On rare occasions, yes. But, out of the colorless lands, I thought Nykthos was more of a burden because it doesn't even help you play out your elves. At least Cavern taps for G to play an elf. So for right now, I'll leave it in.
That reminds me dstathis, I'm gonna have to PM you to get your input on your build and it's + / -. how you play, what you look for, etc. I'm behind you on the speed elf combo, but I'm gonna need some tips and advice.
-Yawg
PM me if you wanna preemptively discuss this build specifically.
Welcome Quarksdirektor! Thanks for posting such a cool list and interesting ideas!
While I'm not a huge proponent of "goldfishing" (I often find that real play differs from goldfishing as you often don't play the same way...but I digress); I do totally understand it's use to get a general sense of the speed of a deck); And you are right. I've found on a "pure speed" basis; my current list gold fishes at a game one turn rate of 4.18 turns (although this is only over a 122 game analysis via excel) with the absolute fastest win being turn 3 and the slowest being turn 8 (on one occasion). Of course the above takes into account "goldfishing" where you make decisions you otherwise may not (such as playing a Heritage Druid out on turn one, casting a "naked" combo on turn 2 (i.e. casting Heritage Druid, and Nettle Sentinel with your last two mana; tapping all three elves and playing Cloudstone Curio and passing)...basically, you make plays that optimize your mana; however may not be the smartest or most optimum play against an opponent. In reality the deck plays a little bit slower in actual game play (as you have to play around certain cards and your opponent can remove things).
Yawg and dstathis
I can't wait to hear more about how your decks are performing! Please don't PM to discuss the deck; as I'm sure there are many on here who want to see the evolution of the deck and get an insight into why changes are made when and if they are made.
And you weren't being "too negative" on the deck as your concerns come from real-life play of the deck. On the contrary; it's far better to know where a deck is weak (and how it can be improved) than to just maintain an unrealistic view of a decks performance...if I had a nickle for every time someone said they had like a 95% win rate with a deck and/or said the famous "...it can play aggro, midrange, or control depending on the match up..." I'd be a rich man In seriousness though, part of the the fun of brewing is seeing both the good and the bad; and minimizing the bad to the best of your ability while maximizing the good.
Sure! As a matter fact, I was about ready to post some more findings I had and some more testing that I did with the deck in the last couple of days. Work is been getting busy, so I wasn't able to get on this site to write what I wanted to say.
As long as no one minds us talking about the combo version I'm more than happy to post all of it here, rather than in a private message. I just didn't want to clog up the whole thread discussing one type of combo deck.
Quick response to the "gold fishing" topic: I feel the gold fishing, with a combo deck is essential but in a different way than you would expect. There is no better way to test than against opponents. When you're playing against no one, it's very easy to pull off your combos it's easy to win all the time. As soon as you throw a lightning bolt into the mix, or a counter, it changes everything. What is good about gold fishing, is that you get to recognize hands and recognize situations without the pressure of an opponent reacting. You get to see how cards interact, and recognize different situations, that would lead you into a combo.
For example, in the speed version, I was dismissing the Beck as being too slow, and maybe taking it out of the deck entirely. "How can you pull off a fast combo by leaving up 2 mana to play Beck and still have mana to loop your Visionary?" That's when I realized you could just have two one mana elves out, a Curio, and cast beck to draw out your deck. Playing a dork, Tapping for 3, and cycle through the 3 elves in a loop... This was discovered during fish bowling. So, I believe it does have a place but you shouldn't rely all your testing on gold fishing.
I just wanted to throw this to you so we didn't clutter up the thread, especially since there's 3-5 different decklists running on the Elf Page.
What are some of the things you've learned so far with this deck? I mean, it seems explosively fast, but the only part that makes it seems super speedy is the Beck // Call, and that has only worked for me once or twice. usually Beck helps me refill my hand / board a little before puttering out. Am I playing it wrong? It always seems like I have just enough mana to play 2-3 elves in a chain before I run out of mana. And if I wait for 2-3 Nettles, it's not a fast combo anymore...
So, If i'm playing Beck wrong, tell me, but if not, it seems like it's more of a hinderance than a help to the deck. it always feels like I have plenty of dorks, and one of the 2-3 pieces that make up the combo. Then I draw and get... wait for it... another mana dork! and then I cry and concede the match.
Tell me if i'm missing something, or if you're running into the same problems.
So first of all while I have tested the deck, I have been in Greece for the summer so I have been limited to cockatrice. When I get back to the states in September I will do much more testing at real events. But on to the main point. I think one thing that you should be doing is waiting to play beck until you have a) a heritage druid and b) 2 or 3 elves to play. The nettle is only necessary if the elves in your hand are visionaries. And remember that the pacts are basically your heritage druid 5-8 and that is their most important role. If you already have a druid then you might pact for other things but the druid is most important. Just keep in mind that the pacts are not there to get the hoof, they are there to make the combo happen. Another thing to keep in mind is the cloudstone curio can be just as fast as beck especially since you can cast it off of a turn 2 heritage druid or just a mana dork. In fact I would say beck is curio 5-8 as the curio requires much less set up to go infinite. Anyway I think the most important thing with the beck combo is to make sure you avoid just playing every elf right away. Elves in your hand are essential.
I also think that you should play more before you decide that the deck isn't good. Keep in mind out of the 3 games you posted about one you would have won if you hadn't made the pithing needle mistake, and another was lantern control which is a relatively rare deck that doesn't tell you anything about how good the deck is overall because its so different from everything else. Overall your testing record is effectively 1-1.
In terms of ways to improve the deck. In terms of consistency, I don't really know of any cards that could help us. I have been looking really hard for creatures that could make blue mana as it would allow us to cast beck later in the combo (wish Birchlore Rangers was legal). Any way I am interested in what you think of ezuri in the deck? I put him in as an alternate win con in case our hoof got thoughtseized or something else like that. I am starting to think though that loosing access to our hoof is so rare that we probably don't need him. I was thinking of replacing him with a land or another dork.
One other thing I am considering is a black splash. It would allow shaman to be the alternate win con instead of ezuri so we can kill the turn we play it. It would also give us access to thoughtseize in the sideboard which could be very useful against control decks or any deck that has ways to stop us from comboing.
Let me know what you think. If you get a chance to play the deck again in an event, definitely let me know how you do.
After the initial rounds of testing I've come to realize a few things.
First, I want Shaman of the Pack in the deck. In so many games, I just want to kill the opponent. I don't wanna waste time with a combat step if I don't need to. I've had games where I had infinite elves on turn 3, all tapped, and have to wait until next turn to untap to do anything or attack the opponent. That gives them a chance to play their Pyroclasm or Anger of the Gods. If I could just finish the turn with a Summoner’s Pact into Shaman of the Pack, the game would be over. So, instead of Ezuri, Renegade Leader in the deck as a wincon, I swapped out for a Shaman.
To add Shaman to the deck, I need access to black. With 8 Fetches, and 2 maindecked Cavern of Souls, reliably getting one black mana is pretty easy. In my testing so far, I have consistently gotten my one black source without a problem. Another mana issue was Breeding Pools. I wanted to cut Beck // Call from the list until I learned how to play it correctly. I’m keeping them, but dropping them to 3. I’d like to draw one, but more than one is redundant if you’re going infinite (PS – Love that it says ‘you MAY draw a card.’ That way, you can make ‘infinite’ elves without drawing out your deck). In addition to leaving Pools and adding an Overgrown Tomb, I cut the Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx (because it’s not very good in the speed version), added another land (bringing it to 19), and cut two Fetchlands. I found that getting your mana is nice, but having to ping youself for every land drop is rough. It’s nice to just draw Forests after you’ve fetched once. So, I’m sold on the BUG (Sultai) Elves.
As for the maindeck, I’ve also made some changes / rearrangements. One, is that while Arbor Elf is basically a Llanowar Elf (and can untap a Shockland to get access to XG, it’s not a Llanowar Elf, and other than the very rare times you need to untap a Shockland, I just want another mana producer. If I lead with a Cavern of Souls, I really want a regular mana producer. Since this version doesn’t run Utopia Sprawl style enchantments, it’s less needed. I cut 1 Arbor and made Llanowar / Mystic 4 & 4.
Another switch is Shaman of the Pack for Ezuri, Renegade Leader. I just swapped one wincon for another. I’ve found that Ezuri is great in CoCo Elves, because you can pair it with Elvish Archdruid to produce dumb mana. Without that type of ramp, he’s just not that good. I know what you’re saying, “but we can make INFINITE mana.” Yes, but if you have infinite mana, would you rather enter an attack phase, or play an uncounterable Elf off of Cavern for a win? I understand that there might be situations where an Ezuri might be better, but in my testing, I’d rather not rely on the attack step. By the way, with this deck, if you can make GGGGGGGGGG to pump Ezuri twice, you probably have enough of a board state to drop a Caterhoof and win. Which, Craterhoof is still in the deck for that reason.
Another change was to drop a Beck // Call. I’ve found that 3 is enough to draw one, not clog your hand with multiples, and gives me room to add that 19th land. There’s been too many games where I can’t drop my pivotal 3rd land and can’t combo until the next turn because I haven’t drawn it. I wanted to up the land count to help with that.
As for the SB, right now I’m leaving it as the ‘transformative’ SB where I can flip to a CoCo build to throw off my opponent. I HAVE been really considering a normal SB with answers to threats, and which access to UB, a whole lot of SB options open up. I really have found it consistant in finding my Overgrown Tomb and Breeding Pools, so it’s safe to start looking at some off color options for the deck.
I'm going to be testing some more, and when I do, I'll post results. In my 'goldfishing,' it's been playing pretty fast and consistent, but it's easy to say without your opponent burning off my early elves.
-Yawg
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From void evolved Phyrexia. Great Yawgmoth, Father of Machines, saw its perfection. Thus The Grand Evolution began. — Phyrexian Scriptures
Match 1 - Affinity 2-0
Game 1 Win: The affinity player is new and keeps a fairly slow hand. I get hit twice by OrnithopterSignal Pest before assembling enough mana to search for the combo via Weird Harvest.
Game 2 Win: This time he keeps a slow hand as well and probably should've mulliganed. My starting hand had Fracturing Gust and Heritage Druid plus some dorks. He was able to get me to 7 infect damage with Inkmoths, Signal Pests and Blinkmoth pumps. I slow built my board and took down his life, always leaving up 5 mana for Gust. On his lethal swing I cast Gust and finished him off in two more turns.
Side Out:
1x Garrurk
1x Cloudstone
1x Archdruid
2x Weird Harvest - This card is generally poor vs affinity if you can't win when casting. Arcbound Ravager + a lot of free creatures is never good.
Match 2 - Jund 2-1
Game 1 Loss: Jund does what it is supposed to do. Bolt dork turn 1, Turn 3 Liliana, Flashback souls, and control things with Terminate and Abrupt Decay.
Game 2 Win: My opponent again does what Jund does, but I'm able to stick a Heritage Druid and Elvish Archdruid on turn 3. He decayed my Archdruid. The next turn I draw a Vines of Vastwood and hold it for anti-removal tech as I have Weird Harvest in hand. He goes to Terminate my Druid, but I'm able to protect it and
have a large enough Elf to hold back Goyf. Next turn I have the mana to combo out with Weird Harvest. Draw my deck, make 3,000,000,000 tokens with Elite, and cast Shaman of the Pack
Game 3 Win: This game goes quick. I have Druid, Elite and Curio in my oppener. So I get greedy play the Heritage Druid turn one. It eats a bolt. Turn two I cast a Visionary and draw into another Druid. Turn 3 is Curio and my opponent taps out for Olivia on his Turn 4. My turn I cast Druid, Elite and go off making 3 billion tokens again. The opponent tries to topdeck Damnation or Pulse, but has to concede.
Side In:
1x Vines of Vastwood - Although it helped in game 2, I really didn't feel like adding all three in vs Jund.
Side Out:
1x Curio - This is sometimes fodder for Command.
Match 3 - UWr Control 2-1
Game 1 Win: I win the die roll and quickly create 6 mana on turn 3 which I dump into Weird Harvest. This time I don't have enough to combo, but do have a Heritage Druid. I go get 2x Archdruid and 2x Elite. This is one match up where I don't care if the opponent gets creatures. He gets a Restoration Angel, 2xSnapcaster, Keranos, but has to dump quite a few cards in the graveyard at the end of his turn. The next turn I cast all the creatures and just have too much power to answer with bolts and paths.
Game 2 Loss: This game went back and forth for quite a while. I built up almost enough mana to combo with Weird Harvest, but each time my creatures were picked off. Finally I was able to stick a Curio with 2x Weird Harvest, Heritage Druid and Elite in my hand. My opponent has started activating his Colonnade and attacks, but leaves him with only 2 mana available. I bait out a counter with Weird Harvest for 3, leaving 3 lands untapped. It gets remanded and my Druid and Elite quickly fill the battlefield with Elf Warrior tokens. With Elite's two triggers on Curio, I bounce Elite and Druid back into my hand, as that is where they are safest. Anger comes down. I wait and bait out another counter on Weird Harvest and try to combo off again, but I didn't see the untapped mountain my opponent had and Druid was bolted very quickly. I wasn't able to put anything else together and quicly die to Colonnade.
After thinking about the game. If I had seen the untapped land the correct line probably would've been cast Weird Harvest X=1 and tried to get Thrun. Even if was countered I had second copy and enough mana to go X=1.
Game 3 Win: I commit a 4 elves to the board early and attack on turn 3 with 6 power. And protect Sentinel from a bolt with a kicked Vines of Vastwood. Dealing 10 damage. Next turn I get my opponent down to 3 and had to add another elf to untap sentinel. I didn't want to commit more, but saw an openning. But as expected Anger comes and sweeps the field of creatures. After some back and forth I'm able to land a Curio again and get Elite and Driud in my hand! Again bait out a counter with some other elf and generate tokens. Use both triggers to bounce Druid and Elite back to my hand. Anger everything. But I'm able to get the combo to work the second time and my opponent concedes after his draw.
Side In:
3x Vines of Vastwood
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
Side Out:
1x Mystic
3x Abundant Growth - I know this removes combo potential with Curio, but I felt Vines was always guaranteed to protect a known card in this match-up. It definitely wouldn't sit in my hand.
Thoughts: This is the first tournament I've played after Origins was released and first games I've played outside of gold fishing. Origins has really made the deck and Dwynen's Elite is an all-star. I've never had much luck vs any of these decks, but today it felt like I had lines of play and options each game. Whether winning with Curio + Elite + Druid, finding lots of lords with Weird Harvest, or going for the full combo, the deck felt strong and resilient.
Don't forget that Elite causes two Curio Triggers, one for the Elite and one for the token. With UWr I was able to make infinite tokens and bounce the cards safetly back into my hand to try again. This really was great and frustrated my opponent knowing that there was an infinite combo just waiting there, but still having to try to counter other threats. I didn't do the same vs Jund as both the hand and on the battlefield are equally threated, but I probably should have as the Jund player will be focused on getting Damnation and not casting Thoughtsieze.
Yawg, what do you think about Thoughtseize in the sideboard? It seems like it could be useful in clearing the way for our combo.
Also, Why are you running 3 Breeding Pools? I think it is better to have a fetchland over the 3rd shock because it gives the option of getting a basic or either of your two different shocks.
Yawg, what do you think about Thoughtseize in the sideboard? It seems like it could be useful in clearing the way for our combo.
Also, Why are you running 3 Breeding Pools? I think it is better to have a fetchland over the 3rd shock because it gives the option of getting a basic or either of your two different shocks.
I have considered Thoughtseize. The major thing I'm concerned with is: Do I want to start the game at 15 life, just to remove a card from their hand? I mean, I'm trying to LOWER the fetch-count just to minimize the pain while still hitting my lands I need...
Also, There's no solid reason for 3 Pools. Actually, in my current testing build i'm running 2 Pool / 2 Tomb. There've been times where I have a Tomb in play, need to use it for G, and then 'combo off.' I didn't drop a land yet, and I have a Shaman in hand. Sometimes it's nice to draw another BG land, or fetch for the 2nd one.
-Yawg
Private Mod Note
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From void evolved Phyrexia. Great Yawgmoth, Father of Machines, saw its perfection. Thus The Grand Evolution began. — Phyrexian Scriptures
I just wanted to throw this to you so we didn't clutter up the thread, especially since there's 3-5 different decklists running on the Elf Page.
What are some of the things you've learned so far with this deck? I mean, it seems explosively fast, but the only part that makes it seems super speedy is the Beck // Call, and that has only worked for me once or twice. usually Beck helps me refill my hand / board a little before puttering out. Am I playing it wrong? It always seems like I have just enough mana to play 2-3 elves in a chain before I run out of mana. And if I wait for 2-3 Nettles, it's not a fast combo anymore...
So, If i'm playing Beck wrong, tell me, but if not, it seems like it's more of a hinderance than a help to the deck. it always feels like I have plenty of dorks, and one of the 2-3 pieces that make up the combo. Then I draw and get... wait for it... another mana dork! and then I cry and concede the match.
Tell me if i'm missing something, or if you're running into the same problems.
So first of all while I have tested the deck, I have been in Greece for the summer so I have been limited to cockatrice. When I get back to the states in September I will do much more testing at real events. But on to the main point. I think one thing that you should be doing is waiting to play beck until you have a) a heritage druid and b) 2 or 3 elves to play. The nettle is only necessary if the elves in your hand are visionaries. And remember that the pacts are basically your heritage druid 5-8 and that is their most important role. If you already have a druid then you might pact for other things but the druid is most important. Just keep in mind that the pacts are not there to get the hoof, they are there to make the combo happen. Another thing to keep in mind is the cloudstone curio can be just as fast as beck especially since you can cast it off of a turn 2 heritage druid or just a mana dork. In fact I would say beck is curio 5-8 as the curio requires much less set up to go infinite. Anyway I think the most important thing with the beck combo is to make sure you avoid just playing every elf right away. Elves in your hand are essential.
I also think that you should play more before you decide that the deck isn't good. Keep in mind out of the 3 games you posted about one you would have won if you hadn't made the pithing needle mistake, and another was lantern control which is a relatively rare deck that doesn't tell you anything about how good the deck is overall because its so different from everything else. Overall your testing record is effectively 1-1.
In terms of ways to improve the deck. In terms of consistency, I don't really know of any cards that could help us. I have been looking really hard for creatures that could make blue mana as it would allow us to cast beck later in the combo (wish Birchlore Rangers was legal). Any way I am interested in what you think of ezuri in the deck? I put him in as an alternate win con in case our hoof got thoughtseized or something else like that. I am starting to think though that loosing access to our hoof is so rare that we probably don't need him. I was thinking of replacing him with a land or another dork.
One other thing I am considering is a black splash. It would allow shaman to be the alternate win con instead of ezuri so we can kill the turn we play it. It would also give us access to thoughtseize in the sideboard which could be very useful against control decks or any deck that has ways to stop us from comboing.
Let me know what you think. If you get a chance to play the deck again in an event, definitely let me know how you do.
After the initial rounds of testing I've come to realize a few things.
First, I want Shaman of the Pack in the deck. In so many games, I just want to kill the opponent. I don't wanna waste time with a combat step if I don't need to. I've had games where I had infinite elves on turn 3, all tapped, and have to wait until next turn to untap to do anything or attack the opponent. That gives them a chance to play their Pyroclasm or Anger of the Gods. If I could just finish the turn with a Summoner’s Pact into Shaman of the Pack, the game would be over. So, instead of Ezuri, Renegade Leader in the deck as a wincon, I swapped out for a Shaman.
To add Shaman to the deck, I need access to black. With 8 Fetches, and 2 maindecked Cavern of Souls, reliably getting one black mana is pretty easy. In my testing so far, I have consistently gotten my one black source without a problem. Another mana issue was Breeding Pools. I wanted to cut Beck // Call from the list until I learned how to play it correctly. I’m keeping them, but dropping them to 3. I’d like to draw one, but more than one is redundant if you’re going infinite (PS – Love that it says ‘you MAY draw a card.’ That way, you can make ‘infinite’ elves without drawing out your deck). In addition to leaving Pools and adding an Overgrown Tomb, I cut the Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx (because it’s not very good in the speed version), added another land (bringing it to 19), and cut two Fetchlands. I found that getting your mana is nice, but having to ping youself for every land drop is rough. It’s nice to just draw Forests after you’ve fetched once. So, I’m sold on the BUG (Sultai) Elves.
As for the maindeck, I’ve also made some changes / rearrangements. One, is that while Arbor Elf is basically a Llanowar Elf (and can untap a Shockland to get access to XG, it’s not a Llanowar Elf, and other than the very rare times you need to untap a Shockland, I just want another mana producer. If I lead with a Cavern of Souls, I really want a regular mana producer. Since this version doesn’t run Utopia Sprawl style enchantments, it’s less needed. I cut 1 Arbor and made Llanowar / Mystic 4 & 4.
Another switch is Shaman of the Pack for Ezuri, Renegade Leader. I just swapped one wincon for another. I’ve found that Ezuri is great in CoCo Elves, because you can pair it with Elvish Archdruid to produce dumb mana. Without that type of ramp, he’s just not that good. I know what you’re saying, “but we can make INFINITE mana.” Yes, but if you have infinite mana, would you rather enter an attack phase, or play an uncounterable Elf off of Cavern for a win? I understand that there might be situations where an Ezuri might be better, but in my testing, I’d rather not rely on the attack step. By the way, with this deck, if you can make GGGGGGGGGG to pump Ezuri twice, you probably have enough of a board state to drop a Caterhoof and win. Which, Craterhoof is still in the deck for that reason.
Another change was to drop a Beck // Call. I’ve found that 3 is enough to draw one, not clog your hand with multiples, and gives me room to add that 19th land. There’s been too many games where I can’t drop my pivotal 3rd land and can’t combo until the next turn because I haven’t drawn it. I wanted to up the land count to help with that.
As for the SB, right now I’m leaving it as the ‘transformative’ SB where I can flip to a CoCo build to throw off my opponent. I HAVE been really considering a normal SB with answers to threats, and which access to UB, a whole lot of SB options open up. I really have found it consistant in finding my Overgrown Tomb and Breeding Pools, so it’s safe to start looking at some off color options for the deck.
I'm going to be testing some more, and when I do, I'll post results. In my 'goldfishing,' it's been playing pretty fast and consistent, but it's easy to say without your opponent burning off my early elves.
-Yawg
I would say these are pretty close to absolutely perfect changes. I love every single change you made.
I think 3x Beck is better simply because you really don't play them until turn 3 at the earliest.
I like Shaman of the Pack over Ezuri (I now run two and it is just crazy powerful and a "same turn" win-con.
Dropping to 6 fetches "feels" right to me (as you can cast Shaman with Cavern of the Souls)
I am going to post this current list as the "Speed" list on the Primer. I know there will be little changes here and there (and sideboard options) as you test/perfect the deck; but I think this is far and away the best speed list I've seen. I really like where this list is at. Probably the best list for anyone wanting to pick up Combo elves (as its fast, powerful, and hits all combo cylinders with less of the weird synergies/interactions that are tough to see....) Great list guys.
Small Changes & Cards I'm Testing
My list hasn't changed that much (and I'm putting under a spoiler as I don't need to take up more space with it).
Trying a 1-of Gilt-Leaf Palace. I was running 3-4 Overgrown Tombs and I just didn't see a point to taking that much damage (as I tend to get a Tomb pretty quickly off of either my fetches or drawing one.... I tend to need Forests for Arbor Elf and Utopia Sprawl; but between Fetches, the Forests, and the shock lands I very rarely don't have a Forest in play (like I can't remember the last time...)
Few sideboard changes; but that's something for later
(Continuing....typing on phone...)
** EDIT - Temple Didn't work (though I didn't expect it to)
Match 1 - Affinity 2-0
Game 1 Win: The affinity player is new and keeps a fairly slow hand. I get hit twice by OrnithopterSignal Pest before assembling enough mana to search for the combo via Weird Harvest.
Game 2 Win: This time he keeps a slow hand as well and probably should've mulliganed. My starting hand had Fracturing Gust and Heritage Druid plus some dorks. He was able to get me to 7 infect damage with Inkmoths, Signal Pests and Blinkmoth pumps. I slow built my board and took down his life, always leaving up 5 mana for Gust. On his lethal swing I cast Gust and finished him off in two more turns.
Side Out:
1x Garrurk
1x Cloudstone
1x Archdruid
2x Weird Harvest - This card is generally poor vs affinity if you can't win when casting. Arcbound Ravager + a lot of free creatures is never good.
Match 2 - Jund 2-1
Game 1 Loss: Jund does what it is supposed to do. Bolt dork turn 1, Turn 3 Liliana, Flashback souls, and control things with Terminate and Abrupt Decay.
Game 2 Win: My opponent again does what Jund does, but I'm able to stick a Heritage Druid and Elvish Archdruid on turn 3. He decayed my Archdruid. The next turn I draw a Vines of Vastwood and hold it for anti-removal tech as I have Weird Harvest in hand. He goes to Terminate my Druid, but I'm able to protect it and
have a large enough Elf to hold back Goyf. Next turn I have the mana to combo out with Weird Harvest. Draw my deck, make 3,000,000,000 tokens with Elite, and cast Shaman of the Pack
Game 3 Win: This game goes quick. I have Druid, Elite and Curio in my oppener. So I get greedy play the Heritage Druid turn one. It eats a bolt. Turn two I cast a Visionary and draw into another Druid. Turn 3 is Curio and my opponent taps out for Olivia on his Turn 4. My turn I cast Druid, Elite and go off making 3 billion tokens again. The opponent tries to topdeck Damnation or Pulse, but has to concede.
Side In:
1x Vines of Vastwood - Although it helped in game 2, I really didn't feel like adding all three in vs Jund.
Side Out:
1x Curio - This is sometimes fodder for Command.
Match 3 - UWr Control 2-1
Game 1 Win: I win the die roll and quickly create 6 mana on turn 3 which I dump into Weird Harvest. This time I don't have enough to combo, but do have a Heritage Druid. I go get 2x Archdruid and 2x Elite. This is one match up where I don't care if the opponent gets creatures. He gets a Restoration Angel, 2xSnapcaster, Keranos, but has to dump quite a few cards in the graveyard at the end of his turn. The next turn I cast all the creatures and just have too much power to answer with bolts and paths.
Game 2 Loss: This game went back and forth for quite a while. I built up almost enough mana to combo with Weird Harvest, but each time my creatures were picked off. Finally I was able to stick a Curio with 2x Weird Harvest, Heritage Druid and Elite in my hand. My opponent has started activating his Colonnade and attacks, but leaves him with only 2 mana available. I bait out a counter with Weird Harvest for 3, leaving 3 lands untapped. It gets remanded and my Druid and Elite quickly fill the battlefield with Elf Warrior tokens. With Elite's two triggers on Curio, I bounce Elite and Druid back into my hand, as that is where they are safest. Anger comes down. I wait and bait out another counter on Weird Harvest and try to combo off again, but I didn't see the untapped mountain my opponent had and Druid was bolted very quickly. I wasn't able to put anything else together and quicly die to Colonnade.
After thinking about the game. If I had seen the untapped land the correct line probably would've been cast Weird Harvest X=1 and tried to get Thrun. Even if was countered I had second copy and enough mana to go X=1.
Game 3 Win: I commit a 4 elves to the board early and attack on turn 3 with 6 power. And protect Sentinel from a bolt with a kicked Vines of Vastwood. Dealing 10 damage. Next turn I get my opponent down to 3 and had to add another elf to untap sentinel. I didn't want to commit more, but saw an openning. But as expected Anger comes and sweeps the field of creatures. After some back and forth I'm able to land a Curio again and get Elite and Driud in my hand! Again bait out a counter with some other elf and generate tokens. Use both triggers to bounce Druid and Elite back to my hand. Anger everything. But I'm able to get the combo to work the second time and my opponent concedes after his draw.
Side In:
3x Vines of Vastwood
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
Side Out:
1x Mystic
3x Abundant Growth - I know this removes combo potential with Curio, but I felt Vines was always guaranteed to protect a known card in this match-up. It definitely wouldn't sit in my hand.
Thoughts: This is the first tournament I've played after Origins was released and first games I've played outside of gold fishing. Origins has really made the deck and Dwynen's Elite is an all-star. I've never had much luck vs any of these decks, but today it felt like I had lines of play and options each game. Whether winning with Curio + Elite + Druid, finding lots of lords with Weird Harvest, or going for the full combo, the deck felt strong and resilient.
Don't forget that Elite causes two Curio Triggers, one for the Elite and one for the token. With UWr I was able to make infinite tokens and bounce the cards safetly back into my hand to try again. This really was great and frustrated my opponent knowing that there was an infinite combo just waiting there, but still having to try to counter other threats. I didn't do the same vs Jund as both the hand and on the battlefield are equally threated, but I probably should have as the Jund player will be focused on getting Damnation and not casting Thoughtsieze.
That's great Irmo! Can't do much better than undefeaterd
It's really cool that Weird Harvest basically becomes a win-condition at a certain level of mana...I need to learn how to play that card better.
I have 6 games that i've saved and logged in. Won 4 of the 6. I'll post results and ideas when I can. sidenote, I only played with the maindeck. I didn't even SB against these guys. I'm focusing on the main. I can see cards that take out / counter Curio seem to be my problem. In one game, it was Rec Sage that was taking them out, so Avoid Fate wouldn't have helped anyway. Thinking more and more about Simic Charm, but in all the cases where it's been destroyed, I didn't have mana up anyway.
So, i'm not sure if a transformative SB is good, a tech sb is good or what, but I'll work on that once the main is pretty solid. Game 6 was against an elf deck without the combo, and other than a Wrath effect, he didn't need to attack to kill me. Double shaman with 8 elves in play (along with my fetch / Shockland damage) did me in, and in game 2, he overran me with elves and Archdruids. Took out my Curios along the way with Rec Sage, and felt faster than me without any 'combo' pieces... I think that Shaman alone makes this deck very 'combo-esque.' Ramp and Sylvan Messenger along with our normal tools made it very fast. Anywho, will post tomorrow sometime about my games to let you all know how it went.
I think thoughtseize is still a good option despite the loss of life. Yes you will be at 15 turn 1, but your chances of winning turn 4 skyrocket. Also, I have been thinking that it is actually incorrect to play the thoughtseize on turn 1 a lot of the time. If you play your turn 1 dork and play thoughtseize turn 2 you keep most of your momentum and have a better chance of hitting their problem card.
I think thoughtseize is still a good option despite the loss of life. Yes you will be at 15 turn 1, but your chances of winning turn 4 skyrocket. Also, I have been thinking that it is actually incorrect to play the thoughtseize on turn 1 a lot of the time. If you play your turn 1 dork and play thoughtseize turn 2 you keep most of your momentum and have a better chance of hitting their problem card.
Oh, ya I know. I meant that more in the fact that there are other options too. If we're worried about protecting the combo, Duress works just fine. Same with Inquisition of Kozelik. These are non-damaging ways to get disruption out of their hand. Is it worth the 2 damage to be able to hit a creature? What creature disrupts our combo? Reclamation Sage is the only one to come to mind.
-Yawg
Private Mod Note
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From void evolved Phyrexia. Great Yawgmoth, Father of Machines, saw its perfection. Thus The Grand Evolution began. — Phyrexian Scriptures
So....I have pretty much streamlined my version. I found myself searching for cards I wasn't playing as 4-of's anyways and felt kind of silly. Still the same general gist of the deck, just changed up what is a 4-of and how much of each "support" card I wanted. Here is the list:
The curve is crazy low with all spells either being 1, 2, or 3-drops (with five X spells); but that actually is helpful (as it makes even slow Genesis Waves/Hydra's hit quite well.)
The reason I'm trying it this way is I constantly found that I was using my Hydras to search up cards I was only playing 2-3 of (like Shaman of the Pack and Dwynen's Elite...It seemed like I should go back to the "core" of the deck and try 4-ofs of all of the important combo pieces and then fill in the "support" form there. I've only tested about 20 games thus far with this main deck; but one nice outcome is the deck seems a bit faster. Shaman of the Pack is just crazy powerful; and hitting two in a game (or simply bouncing one) generally means the game is over. I started with one, then went to two, and have gone up and up to a full set Three may end up being the best number; but I've had VERY few situations where I wasn't happy to see the card (even in multiples).
One card I would have liked to have fit in was a copy or two of Sylvan Messenger; but I have liked Genesis Hydra's ability to also tutor for a Cloudstone Curio and to offer a very large body in certain circumstances; so I'm not sure that Sylvan Messenger would make up enough for this. I think if I ended up running Messenger; I'd probably go down to 3x Shaman of the Pack and try to run two copies....testing will tell (as I will try to find time to test both versions).
Thoughts on Sideboard
Those are interesting points about the difference between Duress, Inquisition of Kozilek, and Thoughtseize...I would think the "speed" version would be less worried about other combo decks than the more resilient decks; but Thoughtseize-type cards are just awesome in the board. I've also had luck with Stain the Mind as a permanent removal of all copies of a card....and of course Abrupt Decay removes nearly all of the hate-permanents I worry about (Eidolon of Blossoms, Torpor Orb, etc.)...so I think Black is one of the best colors we can take advantage of in the board. When I played blue; I also played Unified Will (however some also felt Negate was just as good).
I think thoughtseize is still a good option despite the loss of life. Yes you will be at 15 turn 1, but your chances of winning turn 4 skyrocket. Also, I have been thinking that it is actually incorrect to play the thoughtseize on turn 1 a lot of the time. If you play your turn 1 dork and play thoughtseize turn 2 you keep most of your momentum and have a better chance of hitting their problem card.
Oh, ya I know. I meant that more in the fact that there are other options too. If we're worried about protecting the combo, Duress works just fine. Same with Inquisition of Kozelik. These are non-damaging ways to get disruption out of their hand. Is it worth the 2 damage to be able to hit a creature? What creature disrupts our combo? Reclamation Sage is the only one to come to mind.
-Yawg
While its true that duress hits anything that stops our combo, think about the case where you cast duress and you see all creatures. You will be happy to see that but you will probably wish it was a thoughtseize just so that you you get the value out of your spell. I mean its not like its bad to take their tasigur or goyf.
Hey everyone. I just finished up my first two matches for you all to read. If you like the way I'm doing this, please let me know. If you all don't want to read this much, just let me know. I can super-summarize the matches to give you an overall look at what happened. Anyway, here's the first night's games. I played against some homebrewed deck that only went one game (he quit), and against RW Burn with Origins.
Turn 2
I don’t have a second land, attack with Nettle, drop a Heritage Druid, untap my Nettle and pass.
He drops a Forest, plays Bosk Banneret and passes. 17-17
Turn 3
Tap Tomb, play Nettle, Tap three for GGG, play Curio and pass.
He plays Forest, taps all land for 2R and plays Shaman of the Great Hunt, attacks with both, I lose 5 and his guys get a counter each. He passes. 12-17
Turn 4
I play Foothills, search for a Forest. (11-17) Play Summoner’s Pact, untap Nettles, searching for a third Nettle. Tap 2 Nettle and Druid (GGG), play Dwynen’s Elite (G), untaps Nettles, and put a 1/1 elf warrior in play. I told my opponent I’ll loop it and get 1 million 1/1 elves. He tells me to please loop it (I hate people who do that. You show them the combo, give them a chance to respond and they say “if it goes infinite, make it go infinite.”) So, just to be a good sport, I started clicking the cards and literally was prepared to loop it until I had the desired number of 1/1’s I’d need to kill him. I had a Shaman of the Pack in my hand. I’m a patient person, but apparently he wasn’t and quit.
I win due to quitting, and didn’t get to play a game 2. Had no idea what he was running. Maybe a Temur colored (RG only) Shaman Tribal deck? Either way, that was game 1.
<-------- New Game Started -------->
rasta's Security Code: 263BA298 [???]
Yawgmoth's Security Code: E8AAB646 [???]
It is now turn 1 (rasta)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
Yawgmoth rolled a 13, using a 20 sided die
rasta rolled a 13, using a 20 sided die
Yawgmoth rolled a 10, using a 20 sided die
rasta rolled a 8, using a 20 sided die
rasta draws 7 cards
<Yawgmoth> i'll play
Yawgmoth draws 7 cards
<Yawgmoth> kp
<rasta> kp
It is now turn 1 (Yawgmoth)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
Yawgmoth plays Wooded Foothills from Hand
Yawgmoth taps Wooded Foothills
Yawgmoth puts Wooded Foothills to Graveyard from Play
Yawgmoth is looking its Library...
Yawgmoth puts Overgrown Tomb into play from Library
Yawgmoth's life total is now 17 (-3)
Yawgmoth shuffles library
Yawgmoth stops looking its Library...
Yawgmoth taps Overgrown Tomb
Yawgmoth plays Nettle Sentinel from Hand
<Yawgmoth> End my turn
It is now turn 1 (rasta)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
rasta draws a card
rasta plays Wooded Foothills from Hand
rasta's life total is now 19 (-1)
rasta is looking its Library...
rasta puts Stomping Ground into play from Library
rasta shuffles library
rasta stops looking its Library...
rasta taps Stomping Ground
rasta puts Wooded Foothills to Graveyard from Play
<rasta> End my turn
It is now turn 2 (Yawgmoth)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
Yawgmoth untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
Yawgmoth draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
It is now the Combat Phase, Declare Attackers Step
Yawgmoth taps Nettle Sentinel
rasta's life total is now 17 (-2)
It is now the Postcombat Main Phase
Yawgmoth taps Overgrown Tomb
Yawgmoth plays Heritage Druid from Hand
Yawgmoth untaps Nettle Sentinel
<Yawgmoth> End my turn
It is now turn 2 (rasta)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
rasta untaps his/her permanents
rasta draws a card
rasta plays Forest from Hand
rasta taps Stomping Ground
rasta taps Forest
rasta plays Bosk Banneret from Hand
<rasta> End my turn
It is now turn 3 (Yawgmoth)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
Yawgmoth untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
Yawgmoth draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
Yawgmoth taps Overgrown Tomb
Yawgmoth plays Nettle Sentinel from Hand
Yawgmoth taps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth taps Heritage Druid
Yawgmoth taps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth plays Cloudstone Curio from Hand
<Yawgmoth> End my turn
It is now turn 3 (rasta)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
rasta untaps his/her permanents
rasta draws a card
rasta plays Forest from Hand
rasta taps Stomping Ground
rasta taps Forest
rasta taps Forest
rasta plays Shaman of the Great Hunt from Hand
It is now the Combat Phase, Declare Attackers Step
rasta taps Bosk Banneret
rasta taps Shaman of the Great Hunt
Yawgmoth's life total is now 12 (-5)
Bosk Banneret now has 1 (+1) counters.
Shaman of the Great Hunt now has 1 (+1) counters.
Bosk Banneret is now 2/4
Shaman of the Great Hunt is now 5/3
<rasta> End my turn
It is now turn 4 (Yawgmoth)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
Yawgmoth untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
Yawgmoth draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
Yawgmoth plays Wooded Foothills from Hand
Yawgmoth taps Wooded Foothills
Yawgmoth puts Wooded Foothills to Graveyard from Play
Yawgmoth's life total is now 11 (-1)
Yawgmoth is looking its Library...
Yawgmoth puts Forest into play from Library
Yawgmoth shuffles library
Yawgmoth stops looking its Library...
<Yawgmoth> Thinking
Yawgmoth plays Summoner's Pact from Hand
Yawgmoth untaps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth untaps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth is looking its Library...
Yawgmoth puts Nettle Sentinel into play from Library
Yawgmoth shuffles library
Yawgmoth stops looking its Library...
Yawgmoth puts Nettle Sentinel to Hand from Play
Yawgmoth taps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth taps Heritage Druid
Yawgmoth taps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth plays Dwynen's Elite from Hand
Yawgmoth untaps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth untaps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth puts a 1/1 Elf Warrior token into play
Yawgmoth taps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth taps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth taps Dwynen's Elite
Yawgmoth puts Dwynen's Elite to Hand from Play
Yawgmoth plays Dwynen's Elite from Hand
Yawgmoth duplicates Elf Warrior
Yawgmoth untaps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth untaps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth taps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth taps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth taps Dwynen's Elite
Yawgmoth puts Dwynen's Elite to Hand from Play
<Yawgmoth> i'll looop that infinite
Yawgmoth plays Dwynen's Elite from Hand
Yawgmoth untaps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth untaps Nettle Sentinel
<rasta> oh thanks
Yawgmoth duplicates Elf Warrior
<rasta> please do
Yawgmoth taps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth taps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth taps Dwynen's Elite
Yawgmoth puts Dwynen's Elite to Hand from Play
Yawgmoth plays Dwynen's Elite from Hand
Yawgmoth untaps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth untaps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth taps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth taps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth taps Dwynen's Elite
Yawgmoth duplicates Elf Warrior
Yawgmoth puts Dwynen's Elite to Hand from Play
Yawgmoth plays Dwynen's Elite from Hand
Yawgmoth untaps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth untaps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth duplicates Elf Warrior
Yawgmoth taps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth taps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth taps Dwynen's Elite
Yawgmoth puts Dwynen's Elite to Hand from Play
Yawgmoth plays Dwynen's Elite from Hand
Yawgmoth duplicates Elf Warrior
Yawgmoth untaps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth untaps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth taps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth taps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth taps Dwynen's Elite
<System> Player Lost
Yawgmoth puts Dwynen's Elite to Hand from Play
Yawgmoth taps Overgrown Tomb
Yawgmoth plays Shaman of the Pack from Hand
Turn 2
Play a Forest, and then Elvish Visionary. I draw the card, attack him with Llanowar and pass. (18-16) {My logic here was that if he’s a burn deck, I DID NOT want to lead with anything important. The minute I drop my Heritage Druid, that bolt is going right to its face. Same with Nettle. I figured that I had a little more time to dig. Plus, he either burns a 1/1 nothing, or lets it go and tries to burn my face. Either way it’s a win for me. If I drop anything else more important, his burn puts me back}
He points the Rift Bolt at my face, plays a Foothills, suspends another Rift Bolt and passes. (15-16)
Turn 3
I attack him with my Llanowar and Visionary. I tap 2, play another Visionary and pass. He cracks his Foothills EOT for a Stomping Ground.
His turn, he points the Bolt at my face again, draws a card and passes. (12-13)
Turn 4
I untap and draw, Swing with my 3 1/1 elves, play an Arbor Elf and pass. {My mindset here was: keep playing elves and attack. Don’t worry about the combo. He obviously doesn’t have a great hand, and there might not be any sweep at all. So keep putting as much pressure as possible} (12-10)
He plays a Bloodstained Mire and concedes.
Turn 2
This time he points the Bolt at my Arbor Elf. Plays a Scalding Tarn and passes.
I play an Overgrown Tomb untapped (play error on my part), lose 2. Tap Breeding pool for an Elvish Mystic and pass.
{maybe I had something in my hand, or maybe I was trying to leave that B/G open to fake some answer spell (maybe a Vines of Vastwood), but looking back, I have no idea why I paid 2 life to put that in play and only play a Mystic… I have had that happen before. The ‘threat’ that open mana gives people can change their play. Maybe he doesn’t point the bolt at Mystic now, thinking I have a Vines in hand… Why else would he play Tomb untapped… Little does he know that I’m just a bad player! Ha!} He doesn’t fall for a bluff, pops the Tarn for a Mountain, taps them (RR), plays Searing Blood from hand. Mystic dies, I take 3. (13-16)
Turn 3
He plays a Stomping Ground tapped and passes.
I play a Forest and pass.
{Not looking good or bad for me. I can combo out of nowhere, but he’s got open mana and a hand full of cards. What’s the point of playing ANYTHING until I have some sort of combo in hand. Still doesn’t look good for me. At least he’s not pointing damage at my face. (13-16)
Turn 4
He taps Stomping Ground and Mountain (RR) and plays Abbot of Keral Keep, revealing a Bloodstained Mire. Plays Mire and passes.
I play Breeding Pool tapped and pass. (13-16)
Turn 5
He plays Lava Spike, Lightning Bolt and attacks with Abbot (4/3). I take a total of 10. He passes.
I tap forest for Mystic. Tap Pool for Nettle. Tap Tomb for Druid. In response, he taps Stomping Ground for Lightning Bolt to my Nettle (could have killed me). I pass. (3-16)
Turn 6
He untaps and plays Boros Charm for the win.
Turn 2
I draw (no 2nd land), tap Elves and Cavern for Elvish Visionary and pass.
He plays mountain, taps Foundry for Rift Bolt and attacks with Swiftspear. Passes. (18-18)
Turn 3
I play a Breeding Pool, attack with both elves. Tap out for another Visionary. Draw and pass.
He points the Bolt at my face, draws, plays a mountain, taps 2 for Abbot of Keral Keep (Scalding Tarn), leaves Tarn on top (play error. Prob in my favor. Didn’t see it until I did the review. Should have been exiled, but leaving it on top helped me.) Attacks me with Swiftspear and I take it. (11-16)
Turn 4
I draw, tap Pool for Druid. Tap Cavern and play Nettle. Tap Nettle, Druid and Visionary (GGG), play Llanowar (untap Nettle), play second Visionary (draw). Tap Nettle, Visionary and Llanowar (GGG), Play Cloudstone Curio. {at this point, the review gets fuzzy. I must have had enough elves to tap to get another GGG, but when you copy the game log, it doesn’t give you the Arrows drawn to each target. So if it doesn’t look right to you, I feel the same way.} I explain that I will loop the Visionary to draw out my deck. The opponent says gg.
Game 1
It is now turn 1 (Yawgmoth)
xiongyuan rolled a 15, using a 20 sided die
Yawgmoth rolled a 19, using a 20 sided die
xiongyuan draws 7 cards
<xiongyuan> keep
<Yawgmoth> i'll play
Yawgmoth draws 7 cards
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
Yawgmoth plays Overgrown Tomb from Hand
Yawgmoth's life total is now 18 (-2)
Yawgmoth taps Overgrown Tomb
Yawgmoth plays Llanowar Elves from Hand
<Yawgmoth> End my turn
It is now turn 1 (xiongyuan)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
xiongyuan untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
xiongyuan draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
xiongyuan plays Bloodstained Mire from Hand
xiongyuan taps Bloodstained Mire
xiongyuan puts Bloodstained Mire to Graveyard from Play
xiongyuan's life total is now 17 (-3)
xiongyuan is looking its Library...
xiongyuan puts Sacred Foundry into play from Library
xiongyuan taps Sacred Foundry
xiongyuan plays Rift Bolt from Hand
xiongyuan shuffles library
xiongyuan stops looking its Library...
Rift Bolt now has 1 (+1) counters.
<xiongyuan> End my turn
It is now turn 2 (Yawgmoth)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
Yawgmoth untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
Yawgmoth draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
Yawgmoth plays Forest from Hand
Yawgmoth taps Overgrown Tomb
Yawgmoth taps Forest
Yawgmoth plays Elvish Visionary from Hand
Yawgmoth draws a card
It is now the Combat Phase, Declare Attackers Step
Yawgmoth taps Llanowar Elves
xiongyuan's life total is now 16 (-1)
<Yawgmoth> End my turn
It is now turn 2 (xiongyuan)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
xiongyuan untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
xiongyuan puts Rift Bolt to Graveyard from Play
Yawgmoth's life total is now 15 (-3)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
xiongyuan draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
xiongyuan plays Wooded Foothills from Hand
xiongyuan taps Sacred Foundry
xiongyuan plays Rift Bolt from Hand
Rift Bolt now has 1 (+1) counters.
<xiongyuan> End my turn
It is now turn 3 (Yawgmoth)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
Yawgmoth untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
Yawgmoth draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
It is now the Combat Phase, Declare Attackers Step
Yawgmoth taps Llanowar Elves
Yawgmoth taps Elvish Visionary
xiongyuan's life total is now 14 (-2)
It is now the Postcombat Main Phase
Yawgmoth taps Overgrown Tomb
Yawgmoth taps Forest
Yawgmoth plays Elvish Visionary from Hand
Yawgmoth draws a card
<Yawgmoth> End my turn
xiongyuan taps Wooded Foothills
xiongyuan puts Wooded Foothills to Graveyard from Play
xiongyuan's life total is now 13 (-1)
xiongyuan is looking its Library...
xiongyuan puts Stomping Ground into play from Library
xiongyuan taps Stomping Ground
xiongyuan shuffles library
It is now turn 3 (xiongyuan)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
xiongyuan untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
xiongyuan puts Rift Bolt to Graveyard from Play
Yawgmoth's life total is now 12 (-3)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
xiongyuan draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
<xiongyuan> End my turn
It is now turn 4 (Yawgmoth)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
Yawgmoth untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
Yawgmoth draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
It is now the Combat Phase, Declare Attackers Step
Yawgmoth taps Llanowar Elves
Yawgmoth taps Elvish Visionary
Yawgmoth taps Elvish Visionary
xiongyuan's life total is now 10 (-3)
It is now the Postcombat Main Phase
Yawgmoth taps Forest
Yawgmoth plays Arbor Elf from Hand
<Yawgmoth> End my turn
It is now turn 4 (xiongyuan)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
xiongyuan untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
xiongyuan draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
xiongyuan plays Bloodstained Mire from Hand
<xiongyuan> its gg
Game 2
Yawgmoth draws 7 cards
<Yawgmoth> kp
xiongyuan draws 7 cards
<xiongyuan> keep
It is now turn 1 (xiongyuan)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
xiongyuan plays Arid Mesa from Hand
xiongyuan taps Arid Mesa
xiongyuan puts Arid Mesa to Graveyard from Play
xiongyuan's life total is now 18 (-2)
xiongyuan's life total is now 17 (-1)
xiongyuan is looking its Library...
xiongyuan puts Sacred Foundry into play from Library
xiongyuan taps Sacred Foundry
xiongyuan plays Rift Bolt from Hand
Rift Bolt now has 1 (+1) counters.
xiongyuan shuffles library
xiongyuan stops looking its Library...
<xiongyuan> End my turn
It is now turn 1 (Yawgmoth)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
Yawgmoth untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
Yawgmoth draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
Yawgmoth plays Breeding Pool from Hand
Yawgmoth's life total is now 18 (-2)
Yawgmoth taps Breeding Pool
Yawgmoth plays Arbor Elf from Hand
<Yawgmoth> End my turn
It is now turn 2 (xiongyuan)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
xiongyuan untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
xiongyuan puts Rift Bolt to Graveyard from Play
Yawgmoth puts Arbor Elf to Graveyard from Play
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
xiongyuan draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
xiongyuan plays Scalding Tarn from Hand
<xiongyuan> End my turn
It is now turn 2 (Yawgmoth)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
Yawgmoth untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
Yawgmoth draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
Yawgmoth plays Overgrown Tomb from Hand
Yawgmoth's life total is now 16 (-2)
Yawgmoth taps Breeding Pool
Yawgmoth plays Elvish Mystic from Hand
<Yawgmoth> End my turn
xiongyuan taps Scalding Tarn
xiongyuan's life total is now 16 (-1)
xiongyuan puts Scalding Tarn to Graveyard from Play
xiongyuan is looking its Library...
xiongyuan puts Mountain into play from Library
xiongyuan shuffles library
xiongyuan stops looking its Library...
xiongyuan taps Sacred Foundry
xiongyuan taps Mountain
xiongyuan plays Searing Blood from Hand
Yawgmoth puts Elvish Mystic to Graveyard from Play
xiongyuan puts Searing Blood to Graveyard from Play
Yawgmoth's life total is now 13 (-3)
It is now turn 3 (xiongyuan)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
xiongyuan untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
xiongyuan draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
xiongyuan plays Stomping Ground from Hand
xiongyuan taps Stomping Ground
<xiongyuan> End my turn
It is now turn 3 (Yawgmoth)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
Yawgmoth untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
Yawgmoth draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
Yawgmoth plays Forest from Hand
<Yawgmoth> End my turn
It is now turn 4 (xiongyuan)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
xiongyuan untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
xiongyuan draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
xiongyuan taps Stomping Ground
xiongyuan taps Mountain
xiongyuan plays Abbot of Keral Keep from Hand (Bloodstained Mire)
xiongyuan puts Bloodstained Mire into play from Library
<xiongyuan> End my turn
It is now turn 4 (Yawgmoth)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
Yawgmoth untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
Yawgmoth draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
Yawgmoth plays Breeding Pool from Hand
Yawgmoth taps Breeding Pool
<Yawgmoth> Thinking
<Yawgmoth> End my turn
It is now turn 5 (xiongyuan)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
xiongyuan untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
xiongyuan draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
xiongyuan taps Mountain
xiongyuan plays Lava Spike from Hand
Yawgmoth's life total is now 10 (-3)
xiongyuan puts Lava Spike to Graveyard from Play
xiongyuan taps Sacred Foundry
xiongyuan plays Lightning Bolt from Hand
Yawgmoth's life total is now 7 (-3)
xiongyuan puts Lightning Bolt to Graveyard from Play
It is now the Combat Phase, Declare Attackers Step
xiongyuan taps Abbot of Keral Keep
xiongyuan taps Abbot of Keral Keep
Yawgmoth's life total is now 3 (-4)
<xiongyuan> End my turn
It is now turn 6 (Yawgmoth)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
Yawgmoth untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
Yawgmoth draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
Yawgmoth taps Forest
Yawgmoth plays Elvish Mystic from Hand
Yawgmoth taps Breeding Pool
Yawgmoth plays Nettle Sentinel from Hand
Yawgmoth taps Overgrown Tomb
Yawgmoth plays Heritage Druid from Hand
xiongyuan taps Stomping Ground
xiongyuan plays Lightning Bolt from Hand
xiongyuan puts Lightning Bolt to Graveyard from Play
Yawgmoth puts Nettle Sentinel to Graveyard from Play
<Yawgmoth> End my turn
It is now turn 6 (xiongyuan)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
xiongyuan untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
xiongyuan draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
xiongyuan taps Sacred Foundry
xiongyuan taps Mountain
xiongyuan plays Boros Charm from Hand
<Yawgmoth> gg
Game 3
It is now turn 1 (Yawgmoth)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
<Yawgmoth> i'll play
xiongyuan draws 7 cards
<xiongyuan> keep
Yawgmoth draws 7 cards
<Yawgmoth> kp
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
Yawgmoth plays Cavern of Souls from Hand
Yawgmoth taps Cavern of Souls
Yawgmoth plays Llanowar Elves from Hand
<Yawgmoth> End my turn
It is now turn 1 (xiongyuan)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
xiongyuan untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
xiongyuan draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
xiongyuan plays Sacred Foundry from Hand
xiongyuan's life total is now 18 (-2)
xiongyuan taps Sacred Foundry
xiongyuan plays Monastery Swiftspear from Hand
It is now the Combat Phase, Declare Attackers Step
xiongyuan taps Monastery Swiftspear
Yawgmoth's life total is now 19 (-1)
<xiongyuan> End my turn
It is now turn 2 (Yawgmoth)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
Yawgmoth untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
Yawgmoth draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
Yawgmoth taps Cavern of Souls
Yawgmoth taps Llanowar Elves
Yawgmoth plays Elvish Visionary from Hand
Yawgmoth draws a card
<Yawgmoth> End my turn
It is now turn 2 (xiongyuan)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
xiongyuan untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
xiongyuan draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
xiongyuan plays Mountain from Hand
xiongyuan taps Sacred Foundry
xiongyuan plays Rift Bolt from Hand
Rift Bolt now has 1 (+1) counters.
It is now the Combat Phase, Declare Attackers Step
xiongyuan taps Monastery Swiftspear
Yawgmoth's life total is now 18 (-1)
<xiongyuan> End my turn
It is now turn 3 (Yawgmoth)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
Yawgmoth untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
Yawgmoth draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
Yawgmoth plays Breeding Pool from Hand
Yawgmoth's life total is now 16 (-2)
It is now the Combat Phase, Declare Attackers Step
Yawgmoth taps Llanowar Elves
Yawgmoth taps Elvish Visionary
xiongyuan's life total is now 16 (-2)
It is now the Postcombat Main Phase
Yawgmoth taps Cavern of Souls
Yawgmoth taps Breeding Pool
Yawgmoth plays Elvish Visionary from Hand
Yawgmoth draws a card
<Yawgmoth> End my turn
It is now turn 3 (xiongyuan)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
xiongyuan untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
xiongyuan puts Rift Bolt to Graveyard from Play
Yawgmoth's life total is now 13 (-3)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
xiongyuan draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
xiongyuan plays Mountain from Hand
xiongyuan taps Sacred Foundry
xiongyuan taps Mountain
xiongyuan plays Abbot of Keral Keep from Hand (Scalding Tarn)
xiongyuan puts Scalding Tarn into play from Library
xiongyuan puts a Scalding Tarn on top of Library from Play
It is now the Combat Phase, Declare Attackers Step
xiongyuan taps Monastery Swiftspear
Yawgmoth's life total is now 11 (-2)
<xiongyuan> End my turn
It is now turn 4 (Yawgmoth)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
Yawgmoth untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
Yawgmoth draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
Yawgmoth taps Breeding Pool
Yawgmoth plays Heritage Druid from Hand
Yawgmoth taps Cavern of Souls
Yawgmoth plays Nettle Sentinel from Hand
Yawgmoth taps Heritage Druid
Yawgmoth taps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth taps Elvish Visionary
Yawgmoth plays Llanowar Elves from Hand
Yawgmoth untaps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth plays Elvish Visionary from Hand
Yawgmoth draws a card
Yawgmoth taps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth taps Elvish Visionary
Yawgmoth taps Llanowar Elves
Yawgmoth plays Cloudstone Curio from Hand
Yawgmoth puts Elvish Visionary to Hand from Play
Yawgmoth taps Elvish Visionary
Yawgmoth taps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth taps Llanowar Elves
Yawgmoth puts Llanowar Elves to Hand from Play
Yawgmoth plays Llanowar Elves from Hand
Yawgmoth untaps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth puts Elvish Visionary to Hand from Play
Yawgmoth plays Elvish Visionary from Hand
Yawgmoth draws a card
Yawgmoth taps Llanowar Elves
Yawgmoth taps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth taps Elvish Visionary
Yawgmoth puts Llanowar Elves to Hand from Play
Yawgmoth plays Llanowar Elves from Hand
Yawgmoth untaps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth puts Elvish Visionary to Hand from Play
Yawgmoth plays Elvish Visionary from Hand
Yawgmoth draws a card
<Yawgmoth> I'll loop that to draw my deck
<Yawgmoth> unless you can stop the interaction
<xiongyuan> ok gg
<xiongyuan> ty
<System> Player Lost
In summation, I am really going to have to work on a SB because against burn, I can't rely on just 'hitting' the combo eventually. If the opponent has burn (or removal), you can't just hope to squeeze by the person and hope they don't have the removal. In both matchups, I was weak on lands in the oppener. That's why i went with the 19 land version so that I can consistently hit my first 2-3 land drops. Yes, we can function off of 1 land, but it's sketchy.
While its true that duress hits anything that stops our combo, think about the case where you cast duress and you see all creatures. You will be happy to see that but you will probably wish it was a thoughtseize just so that you you get the value out of your spell. I mean its not like its bad to take their tasigur or goyf.
I understand all that. If you're looking at a nice 'stop the anti-combo' card, it's the best. I'm just concerned with all the self-inflicted wounds we give ourselves with 6-8 Fetches, 4 Shocklands and now thoughtseize... Just thinking of ways to control the damage. If Duress is all you need, it'll save you money and damage. I'm going to start working on the SB soon, and with how consistant the B is, I'll be looking to test these cards.
for control matchups I would like more Chords in the sidebord, also I'd play more Ezuri in my 75.
Just wanted to point out that chord is generally not good against control because you have less of a critical mass of creatures so it becomes difficult to cast for a reasonable amount.
It has been TOUGH getting this deck to what I deem a "competitive level" (where I'm winning 66% or more of my games...because then when it is played against great pilots of other decks I'm sure the percentage will drop). I got there with my Green Devotion deck (it's now a "Walker Combo" and it's the best green devotion deck I've built...but that's another thread)...I back to working my butt off to make this deck work Running through all kinds of iterations to get to where I feel the deck can compete in the entire meta (I define this as the top 12 decks in the format). It is SOOOO close (I'm still winning well over 50% of my games); but it just doesn't feel perfect. So I started looking outside of myself (because I was getting to a point where I was removing one card here or there, but it wasn't doing enough).
There has been a guy named ProPlayer77 just killing it on MTGO with a CoCo Elves deck that I really like; so I tried to make a combo deck more in that vain. This is the first draft of the "new" direction with the deck.
The first itteration is very narrow; but I want to start there and see how much more I need to "bake in" without diluting the deck (maybe none for game one). The sideboard of course will have other win-conditions (Craterhoof, etc.) and most likely some tutors (Summoner's Pact, etc.); but I really want to get back to basics and go from there.
Also, we have to remember; we are just a few weeks away from a whole new set of elves in BFZ; so we can't get too down on ourselves! We'll get there. The deck is great already...i just want it to be amazing
Keep up the amazing work on the Beck version...it's already looking super good (you guys are certainly on to something).
In the fastest combo version (with Beck) I'm not sure if 4 Summoner's Pact is correct. I feel like it should be a split between Chord and Summoner's pact as Summoner's Pact can be downright uncastable in the early turns or very risky and you generally don't want multiple copies of Summoner's pact.
Because often times you simply only need a nettle sentinel or heritage druid to go off, Chord is not an expensive spell tutor in this deck. It also synergizes greatly with the 2 elves that Dwynen's elite puts out and Nettle sentinel untapping so much that it often feels free to cast. When you are completely going off and have infinite mana it serves as a win condition just as summoner's pact does. However, it can be clunky if you run too many as you generally do not want multiples. I'm testing a 2-2 split between chord and summoner's pact right now.
I'm also not sure (much less sure on this one) if you want 4 copies of beck. It's not like glimpse where you can cast another copy while you are mid going off because of blue restrictions so they get quite bad in multiples and become a brick while are you going off. Beck is admittedly powerful, but the deck does not NEED it to win as it has other engines as well. 2 or 3 could be the correct number, even though it sounds crazy to splash for a not 4-of.
In the fastest combo version (with Beck) I'm not sure if 4 Summoner's Pact is correct. I feel like it should be a split between Chord and Summoner's pact as Summoner's Pact can be downright uncastable in the early turns or very risky and you generally don't want multiple copies of Summoner's pact.
Because often times you simply only need a nettle sentinel or heritage druid to go off, Chord is not an expensive spell tutor in this deck. It also synergizes greatly with the 2 elves that Dwynen's elite puts out and Nettle sentinel untapping so much that it often feels free to cast. When you are completely going off and have infinite mana it serves as a win condition just as summoner's pact does. However, it can be clunky if you run too many as you generally do not want multiples. I'm testing a 2-2 split between chord and summoner's pact right now.
I'm also not sure (much less sure on this one) if you want 4 copies of beck. It's not like glimpse where you can cast another copy while while you are mid going off because of blue restrictions so they get quite bad in multiples and become a brick while are you going off. Beck is admittedly powerful, but the deck does not NEED it to win as it has other engines as well. 2 or 3 could be the correct number, even though it sounds crazy to splash for a not 4-of.
I actually am in agreement with you here. My biggest issue with Pact is having early copies and multiple copies. It may be as simple as 3 being the right number vs. 4. I also agree that Beck is simply not Glimpse...it is significantly slower and you rarely (if ever) want multiples. Again, I would start with 3 and go from there (as four just seems like too many). Great points that may really help "smooth" the "Speed Version" out.
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If you're testing out a dedicated Beck // Call / GU Combo elves build, I'd say to go with Intruder Alarm (and 4 of them). If not, you might as well not muddle the mixture by running a BG elf along with a U enchantment in a mono-Green deck!
PS - I do have to say, I've been thinking about this card for the SPEED version of the deck (since it already runs Breeding Pool in the main. Don't know if it's an add on, or in place of something; but I do know one thing: Intruder Alarm is an Enchantment and Cloudstone Curio is an Artifact. It's much easier to kill off an artifact than it is to kill off an Enchantment...
-Yawg
But in the Speed Version (or the "Classic" version as I like to call it because of how closely it resembles Matt Nass's list) I could totally see a 1-of in the deck as additional combo support.
I'm fairly certain my build is getting relatively close to "set"...there are always 1-2 slots to play around with; but my current list probably won't see much change until/unless BFZ presents us some new and awesome elves.
In all honesty, I am HORRIBLE with Intruder Alarm. I simply haven't played it nearly enough. I've just always felt that Cloudstone Curio was simply the best "engine" card for Elf Combo; but that's more of my preference than a "fact".
You have this in hand.
Forest
Windswept Heath
Arbor Elf
Heritage Druid
Nettle Sentinel
Cloudstone Curio
Dwynen’s Elite
With this you can play Heath, Pop for a land (Breeding Pool), and play Arbor Elf. Turn 2, you play the forest, drop Curio and pass.
Turn 3, you play Nettle, Heritage, Tap for all for GGG, Play Dwynen’s Elite and combo into infinite elves.
Now, take the same scenario and sub in Intruder Alarm. You DO NOT get the same result. You’ve just effectively turned all your Elves into psudo-Nettles where you play an elf and untap your other elves to replay more elves. But you have nothing to feed that into. You have no mana sink. You also don’t have a way to ‘chain’ your elves together. You have no Draw Engine. Now, if you had a card like Soul of the Harvest, played a Beck, or already have a Curio in play with a draw elf (Visionary); now you can go infinite.
What I am saying is this: Intruder Alarm is NOT the same as Cloudstone Curio. So you can’t just add 1 Alarm to the deck. It doesn’t do the same thing. If you had 7 elves in hand in the late game, with a Heritage Druid in play; you can basically go like an Affinity Deck and dump your hand. But then what? Hope to topdeck a card that matters? If you have great board position with 1-2 elves in hand and you draw Alarm, now what? for the most part, Alarm says "your creatures have Vigilance."
The way we’re building our decks (all versions) lead us all to Curio, not Alarm. I’m not saying that Alarm is bad, but it needs a specific build to work. Specific cards to break. Its needs a draw engine so that you can play out your whole deck, and sink all your mana into.
PS – Played a few games last night. Not great results. Will post later tonight. Basically went 0-3. Only won 1 of the 7 games played.
-Yawg
PPS - i'm not trying to sound negative, as a matter fact I'm trying to figure out a way to make the speed version of this deck more consistent. I'm actually thinking of outside the box methods to achieve our goal. I don't want to come off as a nay saying member of this thread.
3 Breeding Pool
3 Forest
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
Creatures 30
3 Elvish Mystic
4 Arbor Elf
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Heritage Druid
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Dwynen's Elite
1 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
1 Regal Force
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
4 Summoner's Pact
4 Beck // Call
4 Cloudstone Curio
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Collected Company
3 Avoid Fate
Game 1 - So, he starts out with one of his baubles (I think it was Codex Shredder). Right off the bat I know what I’m playing against. So, my plan was to rush the combo, or at least rush an aggro start. I def accomplished that. I did not have the combo pieces in hand, but I had a lot of elves. I had 7 power on the board, swinging on turn 4. I took him down to 8 life, while he durdled with his baubles. He hit a few Ancient Stirrings and dropped an Ensnaring Bridge and it was over. My whole game was shut down. I didn’t have any maindecked artifact removal, I had no creatures with a 0 power that I could pump and no matter how many cards I drew, I knew he’d beat me. So, with 2 Ghoulcaller's Bells, a Codex Shredder and Lantern of Insight in play, I conceded.
Game 2 – I transformed my deck into the CoCo Elves and tried to race him. Literally the same outcome. I got him to 15 or so with aggro, and he drops Ensnaring Bridge. I was lucky enough to have drawn Reclamation Sage in my opener, so I saved it. I take out his bridge and take him to 8. By the way, he has Academy Ruins in play, so I think I can beat him the turn he’s waiting to redraw it. He has a Lantern in play and I see the next card is another Bridge. He Ancient Stirrings and lands a second one. Even if I had a Curio left in the deck (remember that I transformed post board), he had multiple baubles and a lantern in play, so I would have never drawn it anyway. GG.
Match 2 – Affinity 1-2
Game 1 – he rockets out of the gate but I actually hit the combo on turn 4. The combo was with Curio, Heritage, Nettle and Visionary. I explain I’ll draw out my deck and he concedes.
Game 2 – I transform again to the CoCo build. He rockets out and just flattens me. Now, this affinity deck looked like it wasn’t even the good kind. I saw some Myr Enforcers and it was running Islands. Didn’t see any important cards like Cranial Plating or Inkmoth Nexus, but I could have just not seen any in the game. Point was, he crushed me, and he dropped a turn 2 Pithing Needle naming Heritage Druid.
Game 3 – I go back to the combo, and I thought I could outrace him. He drops a lot and so do I, but he dropped a turn 2 and 3 Pithing Needle. I was literally crippled unter a 1 drop artifact.
***Edit: For those learning the deck and are unsure of some things, PITHING NEEDLE DOES NOT STOP HERITAGE DRUID. I was not paying attention, but Druid's ability is a 'mana ability.' It's not an obvious one like Elvish Mystic but it is exactly the same. Pithing Needle would have no effect on it.***
Match 3 – WU Control 0-2
Game 1 – I didn’t know what I was playing against and I overextended. I didn’t have the combo in hand and I was trying to outrace him. I hit for a few points of damage before he dropped a turn 4 Engineered Explosives for 1 and wiped my board. He countered every threat after that and beat me with a few ground threats and a Celestial Colonnade.
Game 2 – I added my Avoid Fates and a few other things, but I didn’t transform. I tried to race him, and did get in a bunch of damage. He was able to neutralize my threats and land Baneslayer Angel and started gaining 5 life per turn while taking me out. I tried to outramp him and land a Behemoth, but he had a Colonnade out and won with the 2 flyers I couldn’t block. All I was able to do before dying was land a Regal Force to try and draw me into the combo, but without avail.
So in summation, the night sucked. One problem was with mana, and the other was the lacking of the combo pieces. In some instances, I’d be able to land an infinite combo, but was 1-2 mana short (because I’d need to use the elves to complete the combo, but would still need to land a Curio or a Beck. The other instances I had enough mana to support a combo, but was lacking in one piece or another. I either had all the elves needed, but no Curio, or I’d have a card like Beck / Curio but nothing but 1/1 Llanowars or Mystics and no Nettles / Druids.
Right now I’m trying to think of ways to improve both (or at least 1) aspect of the deck. It’s not a matter of speed, but a matter of the opening hand. It seems like an Elf version of Amulet Bloom, where one hand will rip your opponent apart, the other hand will get you nowhere but playing out 1/1 mana dorks and hoping your opponent doesn’t laugh too hard at your efforts.
When I say outside the box, I’m really thinking OUTSIDE the box. Since I’m using GU, I’m even venturing into the realm of Prophet of Kruphix. You get to untap everything the next upkeep, and even if they kill it off, you can instantly flash in all your elves. Things like this I’m thinking about to try to improve the deck. Right now, I’m thinking of taking out the Nykthos (In my build it’s useless. You’re either winning or your losing and that’s a large amount of mana for nothing), another card in the main (prob a Mystic), and upping the land count to 19.
Any advice?
-Yawg
Thank you for the report. It is good to see the good along with the bad.
First, Pithing Needle. It specifically excepts mana abilities, so your Heritage Druid's would've been in action. If you had some out or in hand, I'm betting this would've changed the face of both games. Really only your fetches, Ezuri, and Arbor Elves are vulnerable to the needle.
Since Arbor Elves are vulnerable to needle and you aren't running Utopia Sprawl, perhaps max out on Mystics first and then fill in with arbors?
I agree that your build does not look like it wants Nykthos. Your only mana sink is Ezuri, and I'm betting you can activate him once just fine with your other elves. Nykthos really shines with X cost spells like Genesis Wave and Weird Harvest.
Lantern is tough. I've been thinking about how I would fight it, as like you I have no 0 power creatures that I can pump. Currently, pre-board, my best option is hope to combo and drop Shaman of the Pack a few times. I don't know if the deck is prevalent enough to change your sideboard or mainboard for though.
Have you considered switching the order of your transformation. I really like your idea to transform your deck between games, butI've been thinking all week that it should probably go Collected -> Curio. The reason being an opponent will bring in the same hate like Anger of the Gods and Whipflare against both versions of Elves. But being collected first means artifact hate won't be added and may even be removed.
Also, the combo version just does better versus those sweepers. So it would be better to be in Curio mode after sideboard, since your opponent will bring those in.
@dstathis
On rare occasions, yes. But, out of the colorless lands, I thought Nykthos was more of a burden because it doesn't even help you play out your elves. At least Cavern taps for G to play an elf. So for right now, I'll leave it in.
That reminds me dstathis, I'm gonna have to PM you to get your input on your build and it's + / -. how you play, what you look for, etc. I'm behind you on the speed elf combo, but I'm gonna need some tips and advice.
-Yawg
PM me if you wanna preemptively discuss this build specifically.
While I'm not a huge proponent of "goldfishing" (I often find that real play differs from goldfishing as you often don't play the same way...but I digress); I do totally understand it's use to get a general sense of the speed of a deck); And you are right. I've found on a "pure speed" basis; my current list gold fishes at a game one turn rate of 4.18 turns (although this is only over a 122 game analysis via excel) with the absolute fastest win being turn 3 and the slowest being turn 8 (on one occasion). Of course the above takes into account "goldfishing" where you make decisions you otherwise may not (such as playing a Heritage Druid out on turn one, casting a "naked" combo on turn 2 (i.e. casting Heritage Druid, and Nettle Sentinel with your last two mana; tapping all three elves and playing Cloudstone Curio and passing)...basically, you make plays that optimize your mana; however may not be the smartest or most optimum play against an opponent. In reality the deck plays a little bit slower in actual game play (as you have to play around certain cards and your opponent can remove things).
Yawg and dstathis
I can't wait to hear more about how your decks are performing! Please don't PM to discuss the deck; as I'm sure there are many on here who want to see the evolution of the deck and get an insight into why changes are made when and if they are made.
And you weren't being "too negative" on the deck as your concerns come from real-life play of the deck. On the contrary; it's far better to know where a deck is weak (and how it can be improved) than to just maintain an unrealistic view of a decks performance...if I had a nickle for every time someone said they had like a 95% win rate with a deck and/or said the famous "...it can play aggro, midrange, or control depending on the match up..." I'd be a rich man In seriousness though, part of the the fun of brewing is seeing both the good and the bad; and minimizing the bad to the best of your ability while maximizing the good.
As long as no one minds us talking about the combo version I'm more than happy to post all of it here, rather than in a private message. I just didn't want to clog up the whole thread discussing one type of combo deck.
Quick response to the "gold fishing" topic: I feel the gold fishing, with a combo deck is essential but in a different way than you would expect. There is no better way to test than against opponents. When you're playing against no one, it's very easy to pull off your combos it's easy to win all the time. As soon as you throw a lightning bolt into the mix, or a counter, it changes everything. What is good about gold fishing, is that you get to recognize hands and recognize situations without the pressure of an opponent reacting. You get to see how cards interact, and recognize different situations, that would lead you into a combo.
For example, in the speed version, I was dismissing the Beck as being too slow, and maybe taking it out of the deck entirely. "How can you pull off a fast combo by leaving up 2 mana to play Beck and still have mana to loop your Visionary?" That's when I realized you could just have two one mana elves out, a Curio, and cast beck to draw out your deck. Playing a dork, Tapping for 3, and cycle through the 3 elves in a loop... This was discovered during fish bowling. So, I believe it does have a place but you shouldn't rely all your testing on gold fishing.
-Yawg
First, I want Shaman of the Pack in the deck. In so many games, I just want to kill the opponent. I don't wanna waste time with a combat step if I don't need to. I've had games where I had infinite elves on turn 3, all tapped, and have to wait until next turn to untap to do anything or attack the opponent. That gives them a chance to play their Pyroclasm or Anger of the Gods. If I could just finish the turn with a Summoner’s Pact into Shaman of the Pack, the game would be over. So, instead of Ezuri, Renegade Leader in the deck as a wincon, I swapped out for a Shaman.
To add Shaman to the deck, I need access to black. With 8 Fetches, and 2 maindecked Cavern of Souls, reliably getting one black mana is pretty easy. In my testing so far, I have consistently gotten my one black source without a problem. Another mana issue was Breeding Pools. I wanted to cut Beck // Call from the list until I learned how to play it correctly. I’m keeping them, but dropping them to 3. I’d like to draw one, but more than one is redundant if you’re going infinite (PS – Love that it says ‘you MAY draw a card.’ That way, you can make ‘infinite’ elves without drawing out your deck). In addition to leaving Pools and adding an Overgrown Tomb, I cut the Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx (because it’s not very good in the speed version), added another land (bringing it to 19), and cut two Fetchlands. I found that getting your mana is nice, but having to ping youself for every land drop is rough. It’s nice to just draw Forests after you’ve fetched once. So, I’m sold on the BUG (Sultai) Elves.
3 Breeding Pool
1 Overgrown Tomb
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Windswept Heath
2 Cavern of Souls
7 Forest
Another switch is Shaman of the Pack for Ezuri, Renegade Leader. I just swapped one wincon for another. I’ve found that Ezuri is great in CoCo Elves, because you can pair it with Elvish Archdruid to produce dumb mana. Without that type of ramp, he’s just not that good. I know what you’re saying, “but we can make INFINITE mana.” Yes, but if you have infinite mana, would you rather enter an attack phase, or play an uncounterable Elf off of Cavern for a win? I understand that there might be situations where an Ezuri might be better, but in my testing, I’d rather not rely on the attack step. By the way, with this deck, if you can make GGGGGGGGGG to pump Ezuri twice, you probably have enough of a board state to drop a Caterhoof and win. Which, Craterhoof is still in the deck for that reason.
Another change was to drop a Beck // Call. I’ve found that 3 is enough to draw one, not clog your hand with multiples, and gives me room to add that 19th land. There’s been too many games where I can’t drop my pivotal 3rd land and can’t combo until the next turn because I haven’t drawn it. I wanted to up the land count to help with that.
3 Arbor Elf
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Heritage Druid
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Dwynen’s Elite
1 Shaman of the Pack
1 Regal Force
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
4 Summoner’s Pact
3 Beck // Call
4 Cloudstone Curio
I'm going to be testing some more, and when I do, I'll post results. In my 'goldfishing,' it's been playing pretty fast and consistent, but it's easy to say without your opponent burning off my early elves.
-Yawg
3x Dwynen's Elite
4x Elvish Visionary
4x Heritage Druid
4x Nettle Sentinel
4x Llanowar Elves
2x Elvish Mystic
4x Elvish Archdruid
1x Shaman of the Pack
1x Temur Sabertooth
4x Abundant Growth
Artifacts
4x Cloudstone Curio
Planeswalkers
3x Garruk Wildspeaker
Sorceries
4x Weird Harvest
Lands
2x Cavern of Souls
4x Gilt-Leaf Palace
3x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
9x Forest
3x Vines of Vastwood
3x Essence Warden
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Beast Within
2x Choke
2x Reclamation Sage
1x Nullmage Shepherd
1x Fracturing Gust
1x Creeping Corrosion
Match 1 - Affinity 2-0
Game 1 Win: The affinity player is new and keeps a fairly slow hand. I get hit twice by Ornithopter Signal Pest before assembling enough mana to search for the combo via Weird Harvest.
Game 2 Win: This time he keeps a slow hand as well and probably should've mulliganed. My starting hand had Fracturing Gust and Heritage Druid plus some dorks. He was able to get me to 7 infect damage with Inkmoths, Signal Pests and Blinkmoth pumps. I slow built my board and took down his life, always leaving up 5 mana for Gust. On his lethal swing I cast Gust and finished him off in two more turns.
Side In:
1x Fracturing Gust
1x Creeping Corrosion
2x Reclamation Sage
1xNullmage Shepherd
Side Out:
1x Garrurk
1x Cloudstone
1x Archdruid
2x Weird Harvest - This card is generally poor vs affinity if you can't win when casting. Arcbound Ravager + a lot of free creatures is never good.
Match 2 - Jund 2-1
Game 1 Loss: Jund does what it is supposed to do. Bolt dork turn 1, Turn 3 Liliana, Flashback souls, and control things with Terminate and Abrupt Decay.
Game 2 Win: My opponent again does what Jund does, but I'm able to stick a Heritage Druid and Elvish Archdruid on turn 3. He decayed my Archdruid. The next turn I draw a Vines of Vastwood and hold it for anti-removal tech as I have Weird Harvest in hand. He goes to Terminate my Druid, but I'm able to protect it and
have a large enough Elf to hold back Goyf. Next turn I have the mana to combo out with Weird Harvest. Draw my deck, make 3,000,000,000 tokens with Elite, and cast Shaman of the Pack
Game 3 Win: This game goes quick. I have Druid, Elite and Curio in my oppener. So I get greedy play the Heritage Druid turn one. It eats a bolt. Turn two I cast a Visionary and draw into another Druid. Turn 3 is Curio and my opponent taps out for Olivia on his Turn 4. My turn I cast Druid, Elite and go off making 3 billion tokens again. The opponent tries to topdeck Damnation or Pulse, but has to concede.
Side In:
1x Vines of Vastwood - Although it helped in game 2, I really didn't feel like adding all three in vs Jund.
Side Out:
1x Curio - This is sometimes fodder for Command.
Match 3 - UWr Control 2-1
Game 1 Win: I win the die roll and quickly create 6 mana on turn 3 which I dump into Weird Harvest. This time I don't have enough to combo, but do have a Heritage Druid. I go get 2x Archdruid and 2x Elite. This is one match up where I don't care if the opponent gets creatures. He gets a Restoration Angel, 2xSnapcaster, Keranos, but has to dump quite a few cards in the graveyard at the end of his turn. The next turn I cast all the creatures and just have too much power to answer with bolts and paths.
Game 2 Loss: This game went back and forth for quite a while. I built up almost enough mana to combo with Weird Harvest, but each time my creatures were picked off. Finally I was able to stick a Curio with 2x Weird Harvest, Heritage Druid and Elite in my hand. My opponent has started activating his Colonnade and attacks, but leaves him with only 2 mana available. I bait out a counter with Weird Harvest for 3, leaving 3 lands untapped. It gets remanded and my Druid and Elite quickly fill the battlefield with Elf Warrior tokens. With Elite's two triggers on Curio, I bounce Elite and Druid back into my hand, as that is where they are safest. Anger comes down. I wait and bait out another counter on Weird Harvest and try to combo off again, but I didn't see the untapped mountain my opponent had and Druid was bolted very quickly. I wasn't able to put anything else together and quicly die to Colonnade.
After thinking about the game. If I had seen the untapped land the correct line probably would've been cast Weird Harvest X=1 and tried to get Thrun. Even if was countered I had second copy and enough mana to go X=1.
Game 3 Win: I commit a 4 elves to the board early and attack on turn 3 with 6 power. And protect Sentinel from a bolt with a kicked Vines of Vastwood. Dealing 10 damage. Next turn I get my opponent down to 3 and had to add another elf to untap sentinel. I didn't want to commit more, but saw an openning. But as expected Anger comes and sweeps the field of creatures. After some back and forth I'm able to land a Curio again and get Elite and Driud in my hand! Again bait out a counter with some other elf and generate tokens. Use both triggers to bounce Druid and Elite back to my hand. Anger everything. But I'm able to get the combo to work the second time and my opponent concedes after his draw.
Side In:
3x Vines of Vastwood
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
Side Out:
1x Mystic
3x Abundant Growth - I know this removes combo potential with Curio, but I felt Vines was always guaranteed to protect a known card in this match-up. It definitely wouldn't sit in my hand.
Thoughts: This is the first tournament I've played after Origins was released and first games I've played outside of gold fishing. Origins has really made the deck and Dwynen's Elite is an all-star. I've never had much luck vs any of these decks, but today it felt like I had lines of play and options each game. Whether winning with Curio + Elite + Druid, finding lots of lords with Weird Harvest, or going for the full combo, the deck felt strong and resilient.
Don't forget that Elite causes two Curio Triggers, one for the Elite and one for the token. With UWr I was able to make infinite tokens and bounce the cards safetly back into my hand to try again. This really was great and frustrated my opponent knowing that there was an infinite combo just waiting there, but still having to try to counter other threats. I didn't do the same vs Jund as both the hand and on the battlefield are equally threated, but I probably should have as the Jund player will be focused on getting Damnation and not casting Thoughtsieze.
Also, Why are you running 3 Breeding Pools? I think it is better to have a fetchland over the 3rd shock because it gives the option of getting a basic or either of your two different shocks.
I have considered Thoughtseize. The major thing I'm concerned with is: Do I want to start the game at 15 life, just to remove a card from their hand? I mean, I'm trying to LOWER the fetch-count just to minimize the pain while still hitting my lands I need...
Also, There's no solid reason for 3 Pools. Actually, in my current testing build i'm running 2 Pool / 2 Tomb. There've been times where I have a Tomb in play, need to use it for G, and then 'combo off.' I didn't drop a land yet, and I have a Shaman in hand. Sometimes it's nice to draw another BG land, or fetch for the 2nd one.
-Yawg
I would say these are pretty close to absolutely perfect changes. I love every single change you made.
I am going to post this current list as the "Speed" list on the Primer. I know there will be little changes here and there (and sideboard options) as you test/perfect the deck; but I think this is far and away the best speed list I've seen. I really like where this list is at. Probably the best list for anyone wanting to pick up Combo elves (as its fast, powerful, and hits all combo cylinders with less of the weird synergies/interactions that are tough to see....) Great list guys.
Small Changes & Cards I'm Testing
My list hasn't changed that much (and I'm putting under a spoiler as I don't need to take up more space with it).
The few things I'm currently trying out:
(Continuing....typing on phone...)
** EDIT - Temple Didn't work (though I didn't expect it to)
That's great Irmo! Can't do much better than undefeaterd
It's really cool that Weird Harvest basically becomes a win-condition at a certain level of mana...I need to learn how to play that card better.
So, i'm not sure if a transformative SB is good, a tech sb is good or what, but I'll work on that once the main is pretty solid. Game 6 was against an elf deck without the combo, and other than a Wrath effect, he didn't need to attack to kill me. Double shaman with 8 elves in play (along with my fetch / Shockland damage) did me in, and in game 2, he overran me with elves and Archdruids. Took out my Curios along the way with Rec Sage, and felt faster than me without any 'combo' pieces... I think that Shaman alone makes this deck very 'combo-esque.' Ramp and Sylvan Messenger along with our normal tools made it very fast. Anywho, will post tomorrow sometime about my games to let you all know how it went.
-Yawg
Oh, ya I know. I meant that more in the fact that there are other options too. If we're worried about protecting the combo, Duress works just fine. Same with Inquisition of Kozelik. These are non-damaging ways to get disruption out of their hand. Is it worth the 2 damage to be able to hit a creature? What creature disrupts our combo? Reclamation Sage is the only one to come to mind.
-Yawg
4x Arbor Elf
2x Elvish Mystic
2x Llanowar Elves
4x Heritage Druid
4x Nettle Sentinel
4x Elvish Visionary
4x Dwynen's Elite
4x Shaman of the Pack
1x Genesis Hydra
4x Cloudstone Curio
3x Utopia Sprawl
3x Abundant Growth
Instants/Sorceries (4)
4x Genesis Wave
Lands (17)
4x Forest
4x Green Fetch
3x Overgrown Tomb
1x Stomping Ground
2x Kessig Wolf Run
3x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
The curve is crazy low with all spells either being 1, 2, or 3-drops (with five X spells); but that actually is helpful (as it makes even slow Genesis Waves/Hydra's hit quite well.)
The reason I'm trying it this way is I constantly found that I was using my Hydras to search up cards I was only playing 2-3 of (like Shaman of the Pack and Dwynen's Elite...It seemed like I should go back to the "core" of the deck and try 4-ofs of all of the important combo pieces and then fill in the "support" form there. I've only tested about 20 games thus far with this main deck; but one nice outcome is the deck seems a bit faster. Shaman of the Pack is just crazy powerful; and hitting two in a game (or simply bouncing one) generally means the game is over. I started with one, then went to two, and have gone up and up to a full set Three may end up being the best number; but I've had VERY few situations where I wasn't happy to see the card (even in multiples).
One card I would have liked to have fit in was a copy or two of Sylvan Messenger; but I have liked Genesis Hydra's ability to also tutor for a Cloudstone Curio and to offer a very large body in certain circumstances; so I'm not sure that Sylvan Messenger would make up enough for this. I think if I ended up running Messenger; I'd probably go down to 3x Shaman of the Pack and try to run two copies....testing will tell (as I will try to find time to test both versions).
Thoughts on Sideboard
Those are interesting points about the difference between Duress, Inquisition of Kozilek, and Thoughtseize...I would think the "speed" version would be less worried about other combo decks than the more resilient decks; but Thoughtseize-type cards are just awesome in the board. I've also had luck with Stain the Mind as a permanent removal of all copies of a card....and of course Abrupt Decay removes nearly all of the hate-permanents I worry about (Eidolon of Blossoms, Torpor Orb, etc.)...so I think Black is one of the best colors we can take advantage of in the board. When I played blue; I also played Unified Will (however some also felt Negate was just as good).
While its true that duress hits anything that stops our combo, think about the case where you cast duress and you see all creatures. You will be happy to see that but you will probably wish it was a thoughtseize just so that you you get the value out of your spell. I mean its not like its bad to take their tasigur or goyf.
So, I have no idea what I’m playing against. I play first, land a Wooded Foothills into an Overgrown Tomb, play a Nettle Sentinel and pass.
He played a Foothills for a Stomping Ground and passes (tapped). 17-19
Turn 2
I don’t have a second land, attack with Nettle, drop a Heritage Druid, untap my Nettle and pass.
He drops a Forest, plays Bosk Banneret and passes. 17-17
Turn 3
Tap Tomb, play Nettle, Tap three for GGG, play Curio and pass.
He plays Forest, taps all land for 2R and plays Shaman of the Great Hunt, attacks with both, I lose 5 and his guys get a counter each. He passes. 12-17
Turn 4
I play Foothills, search for a Forest. (11-17) Play Summoner’s Pact, untap Nettles, searching for a third Nettle. Tap 2 Nettle and Druid (GGG), play Dwynen’s Elite (G), untaps Nettles, and put a 1/1 elf warrior in play. I told my opponent I’ll loop it and get 1 million 1/1 elves. He tells me to please loop it (I hate people who do that. You show them the combo, give them a chance to respond and they say “if it goes infinite, make it go infinite.”) So, just to be a good sport, I started clicking the cards and literally was prepared to loop it until I had the desired number of 1/1’s I’d need to kill him. I had a Shaman of the Pack in my hand. I’m a patient person, but apparently he wasn’t and quit.
I win due to quitting, and didn’t get to play a game 2. Had no idea what he was running. Maybe a Temur colored (RG only) Shaman Tribal deck? Either way, that was game 1.
rasta's Security Code: 263BA298 [???]
Yawgmoth's Security Code: E8AAB646 [???]
It is now turn 1 (rasta)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
Yawgmoth rolled a 13, using a 20 sided die
rasta rolled a 13, using a 20 sided die
Yawgmoth rolled a 10, using a 20 sided die
rasta rolled a 8, using a 20 sided die
rasta draws 7 cards
<Yawgmoth> i'll play
Yawgmoth draws 7 cards
<Yawgmoth> kp
<rasta> kp
It is now turn 1 (Yawgmoth)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
Yawgmoth plays Wooded Foothills from Hand
Yawgmoth taps Wooded Foothills
Yawgmoth puts Wooded Foothills to Graveyard from Play
Yawgmoth is looking its Library...
Yawgmoth puts Overgrown Tomb into play from Library
Yawgmoth's life total is now 17 (-3)
Yawgmoth shuffles library
Yawgmoth stops looking its Library...
Yawgmoth taps Overgrown Tomb
Yawgmoth plays Nettle Sentinel from Hand
<Yawgmoth> End my turn
It is now turn 1 (rasta)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
rasta draws a card
rasta plays Wooded Foothills from Hand
rasta's life total is now 19 (-1)
rasta is looking its Library...
rasta puts Stomping Ground into play from Library
rasta shuffles library
rasta stops looking its Library...
rasta taps Stomping Ground
rasta puts Wooded Foothills to Graveyard from Play
<rasta> End my turn
It is now turn 2 (Yawgmoth)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
Yawgmoth untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
Yawgmoth draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
It is now the Combat Phase, Declare Attackers Step
Yawgmoth taps Nettle Sentinel
rasta's life total is now 17 (-2)
It is now the Postcombat Main Phase
Yawgmoth taps Overgrown Tomb
Yawgmoth plays Heritage Druid from Hand
Yawgmoth untaps Nettle Sentinel
<Yawgmoth> End my turn
It is now turn 2 (rasta)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
rasta untaps his/her permanents
rasta draws a card
rasta plays Forest from Hand
rasta taps Stomping Ground
rasta taps Forest
rasta plays Bosk Banneret from Hand
<rasta> End my turn
It is now turn 3 (Yawgmoth)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
Yawgmoth untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
Yawgmoth draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
Yawgmoth taps Overgrown Tomb
Yawgmoth plays Nettle Sentinel from Hand
Yawgmoth taps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth taps Heritage Druid
Yawgmoth taps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth plays Cloudstone Curio from Hand
<Yawgmoth> End my turn
It is now turn 3 (rasta)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
rasta untaps his/her permanents
rasta draws a card
rasta plays Forest from Hand
rasta taps Stomping Ground
rasta taps Forest
rasta taps Forest
rasta plays Shaman of the Great Hunt from Hand
It is now the Combat Phase, Declare Attackers Step
rasta taps Bosk Banneret
rasta taps Shaman of the Great Hunt
Yawgmoth's life total is now 12 (-5)
Bosk Banneret now has 1 (+1) counters.
Shaman of the Great Hunt now has 1 (+1) counters.
Bosk Banneret is now 2/4
Shaman of the Great Hunt is now 5/3
<rasta> End my turn
It is now turn 4 (Yawgmoth)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
Yawgmoth untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
Yawgmoth draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
Yawgmoth plays Wooded Foothills from Hand
Yawgmoth taps Wooded Foothills
Yawgmoth puts Wooded Foothills to Graveyard from Play
Yawgmoth's life total is now 11 (-1)
Yawgmoth is looking its Library...
Yawgmoth puts Forest into play from Library
Yawgmoth shuffles library
Yawgmoth stops looking its Library...
<Yawgmoth> Thinking
Yawgmoth plays Summoner's Pact from Hand
Yawgmoth untaps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth untaps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth is looking its Library...
Yawgmoth puts Nettle Sentinel into play from Library
Yawgmoth shuffles library
Yawgmoth stops looking its Library...
Yawgmoth puts Nettle Sentinel to Hand from Play
Yawgmoth taps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth taps Heritage Druid
Yawgmoth taps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth plays Dwynen's Elite from Hand
Yawgmoth untaps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth untaps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth puts a 1/1 Elf Warrior token into play
Yawgmoth taps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth taps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth taps Dwynen's Elite
Yawgmoth puts Dwynen's Elite to Hand from Play
Yawgmoth plays Dwynen's Elite from Hand
Yawgmoth duplicates Elf Warrior
Yawgmoth untaps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth untaps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth taps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth taps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth taps Dwynen's Elite
Yawgmoth puts Dwynen's Elite to Hand from Play
<Yawgmoth> i'll looop that infinite
Yawgmoth plays Dwynen's Elite from Hand
Yawgmoth untaps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth untaps Nettle Sentinel
<rasta> oh thanks
Yawgmoth duplicates Elf Warrior
<rasta> please do
Yawgmoth taps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth taps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth taps Dwynen's Elite
Yawgmoth puts Dwynen's Elite to Hand from Play
Yawgmoth plays Dwynen's Elite from Hand
Yawgmoth untaps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth untaps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth taps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth taps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth taps Dwynen's Elite
Yawgmoth duplicates Elf Warrior
Yawgmoth puts Dwynen's Elite to Hand from Play
Yawgmoth plays Dwynen's Elite from Hand
Yawgmoth untaps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth untaps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth duplicates Elf Warrior
Yawgmoth taps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth taps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth taps Dwynen's Elite
Yawgmoth puts Dwynen's Elite to Hand from Play
Yawgmoth plays Dwynen's Elite from Hand
Yawgmoth duplicates Elf Warrior
Yawgmoth untaps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth untaps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth taps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth taps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth taps Dwynen's Elite
<System> Player Lost
Yawgmoth puts Dwynen's Elite to Hand from Play
Yawgmoth taps Overgrown Tomb
Yawgmoth plays Shaman of the Pack from Hand
Turn 1
I won the roll again, and choose to play first. I play Overgrown Tomb, lose 2 life, play Llanowar Elves and pass.
He plays Bloodstained Mire. Cracks it to find Sacred Foundry and suspends Rift Bolt. Ends the turn. (18-17)
Turn 2
Play a Forest, and then Elvish Visionary. I draw the card, attack him with Llanowar and pass. (18-16) {My logic here was that if he’s a burn deck, I DID NOT want to lead with anything important. The minute I drop my Heritage Druid, that bolt is going right to its face. Same with Nettle. I figured that I had a little more time to dig. Plus, he either burns a 1/1 nothing, or lets it go and tries to burn my face. Either way it’s a win for me. If I drop anything else more important, his burn puts me back}
He points the Rift Bolt at my face, plays a Foothills, suspends another Rift Bolt and passes. (15-16)
Turn 3
I attack him with my Llanowar and Visionary. I tap 2, play another Visionary and pass. He cracks his Foothills EOT for a Stomping Ground.
His turn, he points the Bolt at my face again, draws a card and passes. (12-13)
Turn 4
I untap and draw, Swing with my 3 1/1 elves, play an Arbor Elf and pass. {My mindset here was: keep playing elves and attack. Don’t worry about the combo. He obviously doesn’t have a great hand, and there might not be any sweep at all. So keep putting as much pressure as possible} (12-10)
He plays a Bloodstained Mire and concedes.
Game 2 – Remember, no SBing
Turn 1
He drops an arid mesa, cracks it for a Sacred Foundry and suspends a Rift Bolt. Passes
I play a Breeding Pool untapped and drop Arbor Elf. Pass (18-17)
Turn 2
This time he points the Bolt at my Arbor Elf. Plays a Scalding Tarn and passes.
I play an Overgrown Tomb untapped (play error on my part), lose 2. Tap Breeding pool for an Elvish Mystic and pass.
{maybe I had something in my hand, or maybe I was trying to leave that B/G open to fake some answer spell (maybe a Vines of Vastwood), but looking back, I have no idea why I paid 2 life to put that in play and only play a Mystic… I have had that happen before. The ‘threat’ that open mana gives people can change their play. Maybe he doesn’t point the bolt at Mystic now, thinking I have a Vines in hand… Why else would he play Tomb untapped… Little does he know that I’m just a bad player! Ha!} He doesn’t fall for a bluff, pops the Tarn for a Mountain, taps them (RR), plays Searing Blood from hand. Mystic dies, I take 3. (13-16)
Turn 3
He plays a Stomping Ground tapped and passes.
I play a Forest and pass.
{Not looking good or bad for me. I can combo out of nowhere, but he’s got open mana and a hand full of cards. What’s the point of playing ANYTHING until I have some sort of combo in hand. Still doesn’t look good for me. At least he’s not pointing damage at my face. (13-16)
Turn 4
He taps Stomping Ground and Mountain (RR) and plays Abbot of Keral Keep, revealing a Bloodstained Mire. Plays Mire and passes.
I play Breeding Pool tapped and pass. (13-16)
Turn 5
He plays Lava Spike, Lightning Bolt and attacks with Abbot (4/3). I take a total of 10. He passes.
I tap forest for Mystic. Tap Pool for Nettle. Tap Tomb for Druid. In response, he taps Stomping Ground for Lightning Bolt to my Nettle (could have killed me). I pass. (3-16)
Turn 6
He untaps and plays Boros Charm for the win.
Game 3
Turn 1
I lead with a Cavern of Souls into a Llanowar Elves and pass.
He plays a Sacred Foundry into a Monastery Swiftspear, attacks and passes. (19-18).
Turn 2
I draw (no 2nd land), tap Elves and Cavern for Elvish Visionary and pass.
He plays mountain, taps Foundry for Rift Bolt and attacks with Swiftspear. Passes. (18-18)
Turn 3
I play a Breeding Pool, attack with both elves. Tap out for another Visionary. Draw and pass.
He points the Bolt at my face, draws, plays a mountain, taps 2 for Abbot of Keral Keep (Scalding Tarn), leaves Tarn on top (play error. Prob in my favor. Didn’t see it until I did the review. Should have been exiled, but leaving it on top helped me.) Attacks me with Swiftspear and I take it. (11-16)
Turn 4
I draw, tap Pool for Druid. Tap Cavern and play Nettle. Tap Nettle, Druid and Visionary (GGG), play Llanowar (untap Nettle), play second Visionary (draw). Tap Nettle, Visionary and Llanowar (GGG), Play Cloudstone Curio. {at this point, the review gets fuzzy. I must have had enough elves to tap to get another GGG, but when you copy the game log, it doesn’t give you the Arrows drawn to each target. So if it doesn’t look right to you, I feel the same way.} I explain that I will loop the Visionary to draw out my deck. The opponent says gg.
It is now turn 1 (Yawgmoth)
xiongyuan rolled a 15, using a 20 sided die
Yawgmoth rolled a 19, using a 20 sided die
xiongyuan draws 7 cards
<xiongyuan> keep
<Yawgmoth> i'll play
Yawgmoth draws 7 cards
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
Yawgmoth plays Overgrown Tomb from Hand
Yawgmoth's life total is now 18 (-2)
Yawgmoth taps Overgrown Tomb
Yawgmoth plays Llanowar Elves from Hand
<Yawgmoth> End my turn
It is now turn 1 (xiongyuan)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
xiongyuan untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
xiongyuan draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
xiongyuan plays Bloodstained Mire from Hand
xiongyuan taps Bloodstained Mire
xiongyuan puts Bloodstained Mire to Graveyard from Play
xiongyuan's life total is now 17 (-3)
xiongyuan is looking its Library...
xiongyuan puts Sacred Foundry into play from Library
xiongyuan taps Sacred Foundry
xiongyuan plays Rift Bolt from Hand
xiongyuan shuffles library
xiongyuan stops looking its Library...
Rift Bolt now has 1 (+1) counters.
<xiongyuan> End my turn
It is now turn 2 (Yawgmoth)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
Yawgmoth untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
Yawgmoth draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
Yawgmoth plays Forest from Hand
Yawgmoth taps Overgrown Tomb
Yawgmoth taps Forest
Yawgmoth plays Elvish Visionary from Hand
Yawgmoth draws a card
It is now the Combat Phase, Declare Attackers Step
Yawgmoth taps Llanowar Elves
xiongyuan's life total is now 16 (-1)
<Yawgmoth> End my turn
It is now turn 2 (xiongyuan)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
xiongyuan untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
xiongyuan puts Rift Bolt to Graveyard from Play
Yawgmoth's life total is now 15 (-3)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
xiongyuan draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
xiongyuan plays Wooded Foothills from Hand
xiongyuan taps Sacred Foundry
xiongyuan plays Rift Bolt from Hand
Rift Bolt now has 1 (+1) counters.
<xiongyuan> End my turn
It is now turn 3 (Yawgmoth)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
Yawgmoth untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
Yawgmoth draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
It is now the Combat Phase, Declare Attackers Step
Yawgmoth taps Llanowar Elves
Yawgmoth taps Elvish Visionary
xiongyuan's life total is now 14 (-2)
It is now the Postcombat Main Phase
Yawgmoth taps Overgrown Tomb
Yawgmoth taps Forest
Yawgmoth plays Elvish Visionary from Hand
Yawgmoth draws a card
<Yawgmoth> End my turn
xiongyuan taps Wooded Foothills
xiongyuan puts Wooded Foothills to Graveyard from Play
xiongyuan's life total is now 13 (-1)
xiongyuan is looking its Library...
xiongyuan puts Stomping Ground into play from Library
xiongyuan taps Stomping Ground
xiongyuan shuffles library
It is now turn 3 (xiongyuan)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
xiongyuan untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
xiongyuan puts Rift Bolt to Graveyard from Play
Yawgmoth's life total is now 12 (-3)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
xiongyuan draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
<xiongyuan> End my turn
It is now turn 4 (Yawgmoth)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
Yawgmoth untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
Yawgmoth draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
It is now the Combat Phase, Declare Attackers Step
Yawgmoth taps Llanowar Elves
Yawgmoth taps Elvish Visionary
Yawgmoth taps Elvish Visionary
xiongyuan's life total is now 10 (-3)
It is now the Postcombat Main Phase
Yawgmoth taps Forest
Yawgmoth plays Arbor Elf from Hand
<Yawgmoth> End my turn
It is now turn 4 (xiongyuan)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
xiongyuan untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
xiongyuan draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
xiongyuan plays Bloodstained Mire from Hand
<xiongyuan> its gg
Game 2
Yawgmoth draws 7 cards
<Yawgmoth> kp
xiongyuan draws 7 cards
<xiongyuan> keep
It is now turn 1 (xiongyuan)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
xiongyuan plays Arid Mesa from Hand
xiongyuan taps Arid Mesa
xiongyuan puts Arid Mesa to Graveyard from Play
xiongyuan's life total is now 18 (-2)
xiongyuan's life total is now 17 (-1)
xiongyuan is looking its Library...
xiongyuan puts Sacred Foundry into play from Library
xiongyuan taps Sacred Foundry
xiongyuan plays Rift Bolt from Hand
Rift Bolt now has 1 (+1) counters.
xiongyuan shuffles library
xiongyuan stops looking its Library...
<xiongyuan> End my turn
It is now turn 1 (Yawgmoth)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
Yawgmoth untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
Yawgmoth draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
Yawgmoth plays Breeding Pool from Hand
Yawgmoth's life total is now 18 (-2)
Yawgmoth taps Breeding Pool
Yawgmoth plays Arbor Elf from Hand
<Yawgmoth> End my turn
It is now turn 2 (xiongyuan)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
xiongyuan untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
xiongyuan puts Rift Bolt to Graveyard from Play
Yawgmoth puts Arbor Elf to Graveyard from Play
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
xiongyuan draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
xiongyuan plays Scalding Tarn from Hand
<xiongyuan> End my turn
It is now turn 2 (Yawgmoth)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
Yawgmoth untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
Yawgmoth draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
Yawgmoth plays Overgrown Tomb from Hand
Yawgmoth's life total is now 16 (-2)
Yawgmoth taps Breeding Pool
Yawgmoth plays Elvish Mystic from Hand
<Yawgmoth> End my turn
xiongyuan taps Scalding Tarn
xiongyuan's life total is now 16 (-1)
xiongyuan puts Scalding Tarn to Graveyard from Play
xiongyuan is looking its Library...
xiongyuan puts Mountain into play from Library
xiongyuan shuffles library
xiongyuan stops looking its Library...
xiongyuan taps Sacred Foundry
xiongyuan taps Mountain
xiongyuan plays Searing Blood from Hand
Yawgmoth puts Elvish Mystic to Graveyard from Play
xiongyuan puts Searing Blood to Graveyard from Play
Yawgmoth's life total is now 13 (-3)
It is now turn 3 (xiongyuan)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
xiongyuan untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
xiongyuan draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
xiongyuan plays Stomping Ground from Hand
xiongyuan taps Stomping Ground
<xiongyuan> End my turn
It is now turn 3 (Yawgmoth)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
Yawgmoth untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
Yawgmoth draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
Yawgmoth plays Forest from Hand
<Yawgmoth> End my turn
It is now turn 4 (xiongyuan)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
xiongyuan untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
xiongyuan draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
xiongyuan taps Stomping Ground
xiongyuan taps Mountain
xiongyuan plays Abbot of Keral Keep from Hand (Bloodstained Mire)
xiongyuan puts Bloodstained Mire into play from Library
<xiongyuan> End my turn
It is now turn 4 (Yawgmoth)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
Yawgmoth untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
Yawgmoth draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
Yawgmoth plays Breeding Pool from Hand
Yawgmoth taps Breeding Pool
<Yawgmoth> Thinking
<Yawgmoth> End my turn
It is now turn 5 (xiongyuan)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
xiongyuan untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
xiongyuan draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
xiongyuan taps Mountain
xiongyuan plays Lava Spike from Hand
Yawgmoth's life total is now 10 (-3)
xiongyuan puts Lava Spike to Graveyard from Play
xiongyuan taps Sacred Foundry
xiongyuan plays Lightning Bolt from Hand
Yawgmoth's life total is now 7 (-3)
xiongyuan puts Lightning Bolt to Graveyard from Play
It is now the Combat Phase, Declare Attackers Step
xiongyuan taps Abbot of Keral Keep
xiongyuan taps Abbot of Keral Keep
Yawgmoth's life total is now 3 (-4)
<xiongyuan> End my turn
It is now turn 6 (Yawgmoth)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
Yawgmoth untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
Yawgmoth draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
Yawgmoth taps Forest
Yawgmoth plays Elvish Mystic from Hand
Yawgmoth taps Breeding Pool
Yawgmoth plays Nettle Sentinel from Hand
Yawgmoth taps Overgrown Tomb
Yawgmoth plays Heritage Druid from Hand
xiongyuan taps Stomping Ground
xiongyuan plays Lightning Bolt from Hand
xiongyuan puts Lightning Bolt to Graveyard from Play
Yawgmoth puts Nettle Sentinel to Graveyard from Play
<Yawgmoth> End my turn
It is now turn 6 (xiongyuan)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
xiongyuan untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
xiongyuan draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
xiongyuan taps Sacred Foundry
xiongyuan taps Mountain
xiongyuan plays Boros Charm from Hand
<Yawgmoth> gg
Game 3
It is now turn 1 (Yawgmoth)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
<Yawgmoth> i'll play
xiongyuan draws 7 cards
<xiongyuan> keep
Yawgmoth draws 7 cards
<Yawgmoth> kp
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
Yawgmoth plays Cavern of Souls from Hand
Yawgmoth taps Cavern of Souls
Yawgmoth plays Llanowar Elves from Hand
<Yawgmoth> End my turn
It is now turn 1 (xiongyuan)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
xiongyuan untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
xiongyuan draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
xiongyuan plays Sacred Foundry from Hand
xiongyuan's life total is now 18 (-2)
xiongyuan taps Sacred Foundry
xiongyuan plays Monastery Swiftspear from Hand
It is now the Combat Phase, Declare Attackers Step
xiongyuan taps Monastery Swiftspear
Yawgmoth's life total is now 19 (-1)
<xiongyuan> End my turn
It is now turn 2 (Yawgmoth)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
Yawgmoth untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
Yawgmoth draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
Yawgmoth taps Cavern of Souls
Yawgmoth taps Llanowar Elves
Yawgmoth plays Elvish Visionary from Hand
Yawgmoth draws a card
<Yawgmoth> End my turn
It is now turn 2 (xiongyuan)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
xiongyuan untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
xiongyuan draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
xiongyuan plays Mountain from Hand
xiongyuan taps Sacred Foundry
xiongyuan plays Rift Bolt from Hand
Rift Bolt now has 1 (+1) counters.
It is now the Combat Phase, Declare Attackers Step
xiongyuan taps Monastery Swiftspear
Yawgmoth's life total is now 18 (-1)
<xiongyuan> End my turn
It is now turn 3 (Yawgmoth)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
Yawgmoth untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
Yawgmoth draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
Yawgmoth plays Breeding Pool from Hand
Yawgmoth's life total is now 16 (-2)
It is now the Combat Phase, Declare Attackers Step
Yawgmoth taps Llanowar Elves
Yawgmoth taps Elvish Visionary
xiongyuan's life total is now 16 (-2)
It is now the Postcombat Main Phase
Yawgmoth taps Cavern of Souls
Yawgmoth taps Breeding Pool
Yawgmoth plays Elvish Visionary from Hand
Yawgmoth draws a card
<Yawgmoth> End my turn
It is now turn 3 (xiongyuan)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
xiongyuan untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
xiongyuan puts Rift Bolt to Graveyard from Play
Yawgmoth's life total is now 13 (-3)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
xiongyuan draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
xiongyuan plays Mountain from Hand
xiongyuan taps Sacred Foundry
xiongyuan taps Mountain
xiongyuan plays Abbot of Keral Keep from Hand (Scalding Tarn)
xiongyuan puts Scalding Tarn into play from Library
xiongyuan puts a Scalding Tarn on top of Library from Play
It is now the Combat Phase, Declare Attackers Step
xiongyuan taps Monastery Swiftspear
Yawgmoth's life total is now 11 (-2)
<xiongyuan> End my turn
It is now turn 4 (Yawgmoth)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
Yawgmoth untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
Yawgmoth draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
Yawgmoth taps Breeding Pool
Yawgmoth plays Heritage Druid from Hand
Yawgmoth taps Cavern of Souls
Yawgmoth plays Nettle Sentinel from Hand
Yawgmoth taps Heritage Druid
Yawgmoth taps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth taps Elvish Visionary
Yawgmoth plays Llanowar Elves from Hand
Yawgmoth untaps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth plays Elvish Visionary from Hand
Yawgmoth draws a card
Yawgmoth taps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth taps Elvish Visionary
Yawgmoth taps Llanowar Elves
Yawgmoth plays Cloudstone Curio from Hand
Yawgmoth puts Elvish Visionary to Hand from Play
Yawgmoth taps Elvish Visionary
Yawgmoth taps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth taps Llanowar Elves
Yawgmoth puts Llanowar Elves to Hand from Play
Yawgmoth plays Llanowar Elves from Hand
Yawgmoth untaps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth puts Elvish Visionary to Hand from Play
Yawgmoth plays Elvish Visionary from Hand
Yawgmoth draws a card
Yawgmoth taps Llanowar Elves
Yawgmoth taps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth taps Elvish Visionary
Yawgmoth puts Llanowar Elves to Hand from Play
Yawgmoth plays Llanowar Elves from Hand
Yawgmoth untaps Nettle Sentinel
Yawgmoth puts Elvish Visionary to Hand from Play
Yawgmoth plays Elvish Visionary from Hand
Yawgmoth draws a card
<Yawgmoth> I'll loop that to draw my deck
<Yawgmoth> unless you can stop the interaction
<xiongyuan> ok gg
<xiongyuan> ty
<System> Player Lost
-Yawg
PS -
I understand all that. If you're looking at a nice 'stop the anti-combo' card, it's the best. I'm just concerned with all the self-inflicted wounds we give ourselves with 6-8 Fetches, 4 Shocklands and now thoughtseize... Just thinking of ways to control the damage. If Duress is all you need, it'll save you money and damage. I'm going to start working on the SB soon, and with how consistant the B is, I'll be looking to test these cards.
Just wanted to point out that chord is generally not good against control because you have less of a critical mass of creatures so it becomes difficult to cast for a reasonable amount.
There has been a guy named ProPlayer77 just killing it on MTGO with a CoCo Elves deck that I really like; so I tried to make a combo deck more in that vain. This is the first draft of the "new" direction with the deck.
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Dwynen's Elite
3 Shaman of the Pack
3 Sylvan Messenger
3 Genesis Wave
4 Collected Company
Artifacts/Enchantments (4)
4x Cloudstone Curio
Lands(19)
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Forest
4 Gilt-Leaf Palace
1 Overgrown Tomb
3 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Verdant Catacombs
The first itteration is very narrow; but I want to start there and see how much more I need to "bake in" without diluting the deck (maybe none for game one). The sideboard of course will have other win-conditions (Craterhoof, etc.) and most likely some tutors (Summoner's Pact, etc.); but I really want to get back to basics and go from there.
Also, we have to remember; we are just a few weeks away from a whole new set of elves in BFZ; so we can't get too down on ourselves! We'll get there. The deck is great already...i just want it to be amazing
Keep up the amazing work on the Beck version...it's already looking super good (you guys are certainly on to something).
Because often times you simply only need a nettle sentinel or heritage druid to go off, Chord is not an expensive spell tutor in this deck. It also synergizes greatly with the 2 elves that Dwynen's elite puts out and Nettle sentinel untapping so much that it often feels free to cast. When you are completely going off and have infinite mana it serves as a win condition just as summoner's pact does. However, it can be clunky if you run too many as you generally do not want multiples. I'm testing a 2-2 split between chord and summoner's pact right now.
I'm also not sure (much less sure on this one) if you want 4 copies of beck. It's not like glimpse where you can cast another copy while you are mid going off because of blue restrictions so they get quite bad in multiples and become a brick while are you going off. Beck is admittedly powerful, but the deck does not NEED it to win as it has other engines as well. 2 or 3 could be the correct number, even though it sounds crazy to splash for a not 4-of.
I actually am in agreement with you here. My biggest issue with Pact is having early copies and multiple copies. It may be as simple as 3 being the right number vs. 4. I also agree that Beck is simply not Glimpse...it is significantly slower and you rarely (if ever) want multiples. Again, I would start with 3 and go from there (as four just seems like too many). Great points that may really help "smooth" the "Speed Version" out.