I'm not overly impressesd by these flip-lands for this deck.
#Growing Rites of Itlimoc - front half is completely useless and back half is rather win-more, Cryptolith Rite would be better instead imho.
#Legion's Landing - front half is meh and back half is a very slow token producer which isn't worth a card slot imho.
Not the same mana cost but as a conditional enchantment that gives tokens I'd prefer Promise of Bunrei.
So I'm reviving this post because i'm building a Token G/W deck and after reading the entire post, I've 2 questions:
1. Why using Gavony Township when you can use something better in every situation with Intangible Virtue? 5 mana for only adding +1/+1 is damn expansive. Grove of the Guardian is better IMHO since populating a straigth 8/8 vigilance is satisfying.
2. Why did you guys never considered adding Wurmcoil Engine? It worth his mana cost beacause when it lives, it is a killer and if it dies, it's even better.
1. Because it is a land and doesn't take a spell slot and the deck has mana acceleration to pay for it and grow the mana dorks and tokens into repectable threats.
It is also a good mana sink for flooding situations.
#Grove is bad, 5-mana (and a land) for a creature that dies to Fatal Push isn't worth it.
None of the "populate" cards are modern playable besides Sundering Growth which is a SB card.
1. You assume that your opponent will have and will use a removal on it and it's not guaranteed, you just have to populate it ASAP to avoid this situation. And you should use your mana to populate with Trostani, Selesnya's Voice (or at last Vitu-Ghazi Guildmage) instead of using them on Township. Each time you will add more tokens, they will not get +1/+1 unless you reuse 5 mana, like I said, Intangible Virtue do a better job to pump your tokens : low cost and affect any tokens on the battlefield at any time (plus it gives vigilance). And at the very last, Grove give an uncounterable huge creature. My version is "Go big" so, it's a better 5 mana invested the way I see it but it's a matter of taste I guess.
2. Don't you see the potential of spreading deathtouch tokens?
Virtue is obviously a tokens' staple, it doesn't contradict the use of Gavony though.
I'd rather stop my curve at 4 (Gideon, Garruk) and spend the rest of my mana activating Gavony and playing multiple spells a turn. Wurmcoil isn't necessary in the deck which is built to resist spot removal anyway and the deathtouch isn't that useful in the deck especially requring the creature to die first and not get exiled (which is how it usually gets removed).
The reason the deck is good is shrugging off spot removal and that is why blowing all your mana on Grove is a bad idea and negates the whole purpose and strength of the deck.
Yes, I agree 100% with you for a deck that aim to be competitive first since a game can ends at turn 3 or 4. The goal of mine is to have fun first and being versatile. I might give a shot to Gavony to see how it plays in my game type.
Has anyone considered augmenting Populate with Embalm or Eternalize? It seems like an easy way to go big and the Egyptian set had some nice options including ways to easily discard. Tokens with coming into play abilities are a great way to exploit populate if you can mana ramp to them. Honored Hydra Would be my first choice as a 6/6 token for 4 mana.
On the other hand, Hooded Hydra is a favorite of mine for dropping cheap creatures. I added it to a Simic deck as a way to survive board wipes. Casting Mirrorweave on Hydra in response to a board wipe is memorable.
The mana cost on some of these is higher than ideal, however I'm used to multiplayer games so it's less of an issue. Sylvan Offering and Hunted Troll are also much better in multiplayer because the tokens they give provide means to stabilize the board and make good bartering chips. They stack well with wardens too.
The general issue with this cards is that they are too expensive for modern. The reason Parallel Lives, Annointed Procession, and Doubling Season see no play in token builds because they are just a bit too slow. Particularly with the number of planeswalkers run which could immediately ultimate Doubling Season would seem like a good card, but it's just a little too mediocre in a t4 format.
I don't know about that, the card just doesn't do enough and is pretty much a worse Intangible Virtue (and a limited time Cryptolith Rite) in the deck.
Once I saw the new emmara, soul of the accord I thought a cool G/W token deck would be fun with a convoke deck. This is my first stab at this type of deck and I have never played it.
I would play at max, two Gavony Township. Four seems way too many in my opinion. Perhaps a few Ghost Quarters would take that slot. This deck does seem pretty fun. March of the Multitudes is a hell of a card.
Also, since you dipped into B for Lingering souls, I would try a couple Assassin's Trophy. It's very powerful and can be more versatile than Path to Exile at times.
Edit: Also, maybe find a couple more Chord targets for the list? It would be a shame to only use it for one bomb. I like the Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, but I would also like to see maybe a Craterhoof Behemoth for a nice clean kill.
I would play at max, two Gavony Township. Four seems way too many in my opinion. Perhaps a few Ghost Quarters would take that slot. This deck does seem pretty fun. March of the Multitudes is a hell of a card.
Also, since you dipped into B for Lingering souls, I would try a couple Assassin's Trophy. It's very powerful and can be more versatile than Path to Exile at times.
Edit: Also, maybe find a couple more Chord targets for the list? It would be a shame to only use it for one bomb. I like the Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, but I would also like to see maybe a Craterhoof Behemoth for a nice clean kill.
I like the crater behemeth card but I assassin trophy wouldn't be greatest due to not enough black sources.
The main streangth of a Tokens deck imho is the ability to go wide and make spot removal meaningless and playing the Chord package and Advent undercuts that and weakens the deck as a whole.
Besides the mana dorks I'd avoid playing other creatures in the maindeck and focus on spells and PW's instead.
The main streangth of a Tokens deck imho is the ability to go wide and make spot removal meaningless and playing the Chord package and Advent undercuts that and weakens the deck as a whole.
Besides the mana dorks I'd avoid playing other creatures in the maindeck and focus on spells and PW's instead.
I appreciate your input and maybe the PW are better and I'd agree that advent wurm is weak but I want more of a convoke concept and using it as a tool box. I'd like to try to abuse the tapping ability of Emmara. Maybe GW isn't tokens isn't the best thing, maybe she be interesting in a 4 color Jeskai ascendancy deck for going wide.
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#Growing Rites of Itlimoc - front half is completely useless and back half is rather win-more, Cryptolith Rite would be better instead imho.
#Legion's Landing - front half is meh and back half is a very slow token producer which isn't worth a card slot imho.
Not the same mana cost but as a conditional enchantment that gives tokens I'd prefer Promise of Bunrei.
1. Why using Gavony Township when you can use something better in every situation with Intangible Virtue? 5 mana for only adding +1/+1 is damn expansive. Grove of the Guardian is better IMHO since populating a straigth 8/8 vigilance is satisfying.
2. Why did you guys never considered adding Wurmcoil Engine? It worth his mana cost beacause when it lives, it is a killer and if it dies, it's even better.
It is also a good mana sink for flooding situations.
#Grove is bad, 5-mana (and a land) for a creature that dies to Fatal Push isn't worth it.
None of the "populate" cards are modern playable besides Sundering Growth which is a SB card.
2. You can play it in any deck, why here ?
2. Don't you see the potential of spreading deathtouch tokens?
Nissa, Garruk, Gideon and spells like: Raise the Alarm/Secure the Wastes and Spectral Procession/Lingering Souls are much more mana-efficient and work better with the anthems by going wide (which is what the deck is good at).
Virtue is obviously a tokens' staple, it doesn't contradict the use of Gavony though.
I'd rather stop my curve at 4 (Gideon, Garruk) and spend the rest of my mana activating Gavony and playing multiple spells a turn.
Wurmcoil isn't necessary in the deck which is built to resist spot removal anyway and the deathtouch isn't that useful in the deck especially requring the creature to die first and not get exiled (which is how it usually gets removed).
The reason the deck is good is shrugging off spot removal and that is why blowing all your mana on Grove is a bad idea and negates the whole purpose and strength of the deck.
4x Arbor Elf
2x Armada Wurm
3x Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
3x Voice of Resurgence
3x Wayfaring Temple
2x Wurmcoil Engine
Enchantment (9)
1x Growing Ranks
3x Intangible Virtue
2x Oblivion Ring
3x Rancor
3x Advent of the Wurm
2x Beast Within
2x Selesnya Charm
Sorcery (5)
3x Call of the Conclave
1x Entreat the Angels
1x Hour of Reckoning
Planeswalker (2)
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1x Garruk Wildspeaker
5x Forest
5x Plains
2x Grove of the Guardian
4x Sunpetal Grove
4x Temple Garden
4x Birds of Paradise
1x Noble Hierarch
Planeswalker (7)
4x Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
3x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2x Garruk Wildspeaker
Instant (12)
4x Path to Exile
4x Raise the Alarm
4x Secure the Wastes
Sorcery (8)
4x Lingering Souls
4x Spectral Procession
4x Intangible Virtue
Land (22)
4x Windswept Heath
2x Marsh Flats
2x Verdant Catacombs
2x Temple Garden
1x Godless Shrine
3x Razorverge Thicket
2x Gavony Township
2x Westvale Abbey
2x Plains
2x Forest
3x Beast Within
2x Hour of Reckoning
2x Rest in Peace
2x Stony Silence
2x Sundering Growth
2x Blessed Alliance
2x Timely Reinforcements
Some others are Angel of Sanctions, Adorned Pouncer, Sunscourge Champion, Anointer Priest, Resilient Khenra.
You could make a good Bl/W deck to take advantage of Aven Wind Guide, Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun, Vizier of Many Faces, Vizier of the Anointed, Champion of Wits and of course Rite of Replication. Blue allows counter and bounce which buys time. Rites of Refusal may be better than counter as it isn't mono blue and it gives you an excuse to discard embalmers. Rites of Spring for the same reason. Most of the crazy token decks that I've seen have all been Bl/G unless they're racial based.
If you are splashing black, then Dreamstealer, Quest for the Gravelord, Skirsdag High Priest, Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath and Reign of the Pit all become solid options. Black is particularly nice because it has card draw, mana excel and offers rewards for sacrificing creatures. Culling the Weak
Ooze Garden is good at converting big cheap creatures into tokens and stacks well with Hunted troll or Force of Savagery augmented by an anthem.
I'm sure that someone could make an EDH or a gimmicky deck involving Dark Depths and either Hex Parasite or Fate Transfer with Wind Zendikon followed by a proliferate, but that's excessive.
On the other hand, Hooded Hydra is a favorite of mine for dropping cheap creatures. I added it to a Simic deck as a way to survive board wipes. Casting Mirrorweave on Hydra in response to a board wipe is memorable.
The mana cost on some of these is higher than ideal, however I'm used to multiplayer games so it's less of an issue. Sylvan Offering and Hunted Troll are also much better in multiplayer because the tokens they give provide means to stabilize the board and make good bartering chips. They stack well with wardens too.
This is Modern we're talking about rather than EdH/Casual (multiplayer).
1 Archangel Avacyn
2 Birds of Paradise
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Emmara, Soul of the Accord
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Voice of Resurgence
Enchantment (3)
3 Intangible Virtue
Instant (13)
3 Advent of the Wurm
4 Chord of Calling
2 March of the Multitudes
4 Path to Exile
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Sorcery (4)
1 Entreat the Angels
3 Lingering Souls
Land (23)
2 Forest
4 Gavony Township
3 Horizon Canopy
1 Overgrown Tomb
2 Plains
1 Stirring Wildwood
2 Temple Garden
2 Treetop Village
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
Also, since you dipped into B for Lingering souls, I would try a couple Assassin's Trophy. It's very powerful and can be more versatile than Path to Exile at times.
Edit: Also, maybe find a couple more Chord targets for the list? It would be a shame to only use it for one bomb. I like the Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, but I would also like to see maybe a Craterhoof Behemoth for a nice clean kill.
Replacing them with PW's would be much better imho, the best being:
Nissa, Voice of Zendikar, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar and Garruk Wildspeaker.
The main streangth of a Tokens deck imho is the ability to go wide and make spot removal meaningless and playing the Chord package and Advent undercuts that and weakens the deck as a whole.
Besides the mana dorks I'd avoid playing other creatures in the maindeck and focus on spells and PW's instead.
I appreciate your input and maybe the PW are better and I'd agree that advent wurm is weak but I want more of a convoke concept and using it as a tool box. I'd like to try to abuse the tapping ability of Emmara. Maybe GW isn't tokens isn't the best thing, maybe she be interesting in a 4 color Jeskai ascendancy deck for going wide.