iGrow is a grow deck that spends its resources temporarily disrupting opponents while attacking with efficient threats. Once it exhausts its cards, the deck refills with Day's Undoing to overpower opponents. The deck came about as an elegant answer to hand-control-oriented midrange decks like Grixis Control.
There’s an easy way to break tempo; the archetype just requires ways to turn a previously unused resource into something it craves and has little of. Tempo has no shortage of spare land drops or excess cards in the graveyard that we would gladly trade for more tools to win games with. Cards that offer these trades include Gush, which turns land drops into cards in hand; Treasure Cruise, which turns cards in the graveyard into cards in hand; Become Immense, which turns cards in the graveyard into damage; and Hooting Mandrills, which turns cards in the graveyard into an optimal threat.
Like Gush and Treasure Cruise before it, Day's Undoing gives tempo decks the most dangerous weapon they can ask for - more cards. Just as control decks sacrifice their early game for a stellar top-end, tempo decks boast enormous power in the early game in exchange for any relevance later on. Gush, Treasure Cruise, and now Day's Undoing allow them to not only maintain relevance, but to dictate the pace of the late game as they do the first few turns.
Why play iGrow?
As with Monkey Grow and Counter-Cat, the main draw to iGrow is the exhilaration the grow archetype gives players. Grixis Delver occasionally offers the same feeling, when a turn 1 Delver blind-flips and then secures a victory before opponents find a Lightning Bolt. But frequently, Modern’s other Delver decks fall back on grindy midrange plans as their threats become outclassed. iGrow plays like Treasure Cruise Delver, though it punishes pilots more dearly for their mistakes. Strategically, iGrow offers entomologists a grow deck more resistant to midrange than any other in exchange for some points against aggro strategies.
Gameplan Day’s Undoing demands some careful maneuvering to pull casters way ahead, rewarding those paying close attention to the board, damage, and hand states and clearly visualizing their short- and long-term goals in a game. In general, the deck aims to slam a bunch of threats, securing a board advantage at the cost of cards in hand. Then, it casts Day's Undoing, putting the game away against opponents trying to win on other metrics (such as by accruingincrementaladvantage). Understanding how and when to play Day's Undoing is the trickiest part of playing the deck, and I've written an article on casting the card here.
Deckbuilding guidelines
A highly streamlined deck, iGrow doesn’t offer much room to improvise, leaving just two flex spots after we fill in the lands. That said, as long as pilots follow a set of rules, they may have success with the deck even while tweaking the core numbers - for instance, a metagame with hardly any creatures might encourage players to shave Vapor Snag's numbers. The deck requires a whopping 16 creatures to function optimally. As for lands, different players prefer different spreads, with some including Sulfur Falls, Wooded Foothills, or extra basics in UR versions. Splashes obviously require a slightly overhalued manabase. This deck should aim to play 18, since it needs to cast Undoing on-curve and benefits from making land drops up to the fourth against midrange decks. A 19th land should inhabit one of the two flex spots unless deckbuilders spend them both on cantrips (indicated in the flex spots section with a *).
Creatures
iGrow's creatures must be efficient enough to come in before an Undoing and impactful enough to end games on their own. Each threat compliments the others in a unique way.
Delver of Secrets: “Flying.” That one line of text sets Delver apart from every other aggressor to escape R&D. Insectile Aberration can terrorize even opponents developing their board just by flying over potential walls. For everything else, there’s Vapor Snag.
Monastery Swiftspear: Another highly efficient one-drop and probably the best creature in the deck. Swiftspear regularly hits for 4 or 5 after an Undoing, a number rendered obscene by multiples. It also dodges removal with enough instants.
Stormchaser Mage: The card that brought us down to two colors. Stormchaser pitches to Shoal, flies over defenses, and OTKs after a Day's Undoing, doubling our chances of finding a "Swiftspear" for the next turn.
Young Pyromancer: With Disrupting Shoal backup, it’s easy to carry a game away with just one Young Pyromancer. Otherwise, he should be paced until he guarantees value, only coming down with one more cantrip ready. I’ve won many games just off 1/1 tokens generated before my Pyromancer immediately ate a Lightning Bolt. Gives the deck an ability to go wider than other aggro decks.
Spells
Our spells either find or support Day's Undoing. Again, cheap mana costs are necessary for inclusion.
Lightning Bolt: Killing so much is nice, but presenting 12 points of reach across a playset justifies Lightning Bolt’s 50% metagame share. Between Bolt and Undoing, iGrow can reliably become a Burn deck against opponents locking down the ground with Vedalken Shackles or Ghostly Prison.
Disrupting Shoal: Early on, Shoal helps spend cards to optimize Undoing and enable a board lead by disrupting opponents and protecting threats. Later, as iGrow pilots fetch out the last of their lands, it hard-counters anything opponents invest into. Stopping 3-drops (Deceiver Exarch, Liliana of the Veil, Anger of the Gods) by exiling Day’s Undoing provides tempo swings previously unheard of in Modern.
Serum Visions: Other than the cantrips, every card in iGrow obviously impacts the board. Shoal protects threats, Snag removes our opponent’s, and the lands and creatures stay on the battlefield. But not only do cantrips smooth out our draws and find Day’s Undoing in the first place, they impact the board by improving each of our threats.
Gitaxian Probe: In Monkey Grow, Probe "provides perfect information, pitches to Shoal, grows Tarmogoyf, flips Delver, and lowers our land count.” In iGrow, it does evenmore.
Lands
Since iGrow's creation, I've fielded some confusion about Day's Undoing's interaction with fetchlands. It's true that we shuffle used fetches back into the deck, and drawing them again can prove frustrating, but for each fetch that returns to the deck, we've already extracted ("fetched!") a land from the deck and put it into play. In this way, we don't fill the deck back up with additional lands; we break even on them. An unfortunate result of this system is the extra damage we take from our lands, but in green builds, the ability to grow a reset Tarmogoyf right back up with a new fetchland offsets this disadvantage. In addition, builds with delve spells can abuse fetches in the graveyard to ensure they draw more business post-Undoing. Splash or no, the most obvious reason to run fetchlands is the amazing color consistency they provide compared with other fixing lands.
iGrow doesn't sport an especially high curve, but since lands cost "0" mana, the deck must run a good amount of them - both to ensure earlier Undoings and to improve the ones we cast. Cards that impact the board for no mana greatly synergize with our main plan. On what lands to run, Mountain is better than Forest, considering the deck's high density of red spells and the importance of life preservation after Undoings give everyone their Bolts back. Forest is still necessary, either in the main (where it causes some mulligan issues) or in the side (where it causes spatial issues), in splash builds on a Blood Moon plan. Either way, I've found four basic lands to test the best when splashing, and prefer five on two colors.
Flex spots
These cards fill the two gaps left by the iGrow core. Any of them can also earn slots in the sideboard, or even replace core cards in deeply understood metas. One should be a land unless they both cantrip (cards that do are marked with a "*," and cards requiring color splashes earn a "$").
Creatures
Goblin Guide: Fine in metagames packed with combo and nonred control as a fast threat, but generally left out.
*Abbot of Keral Keep: Formally the preferred threat over Tarmogoyf should your passion for flying insects surpass the girth of your wallet. Now, we have Stormchaser Mage, making Tarmogoyf practically obsolete in this deck. Look to Abbot if you desire more threats in UR.
Snapcaster Mage: A Delver-deck mainstay, Snapcaster lives in the flex spots because he accrues incremental card advantage - something that Undoing does much more efficiently and also cancels out. Tiago improves post-board in matchups that don’t want any Undoings and benefit greatly from his trademark Lightning Bolt interaction.
Thing in the Ice: Some early testing with this newcomer suggests that iGrow is too fast to make great use of it, but the Bolt-proof body could prove relevant in the future.
Vendilion Clique: Disruption on an aggressive, evasive body. In a longer game, we can even draw-step it after an Undoing. Unfortunately, Clique can prove hard to cast before one.
$Tarmogoyf: Our threats all fail the Bolt test. They even fail the Magma Spray test. Goyf blanks a hefty chunk of boarded-in removal and attacks for big chunks every turn.
$Hooting Mandrills: Easy to cast, even after Undoings. Mandrills was an all-star in my testing and is the best threat to support the core suite in an unknown meta. Avoid him, and green, altogether in builds without Tarmogoyf.
Removal/reach
Forked Bolt: Red removal shores up aggro matchups without sacrificing much against other archetypes, since reach is especially strong with Day’s Undoing. The creature decks that beat us go wide faster, meaning Vapor Snag has trouble resetting them. Resultantly, Forked Bolt stands strong as the best card here, and should be included at least in the sideboard in multiples.
Snapback: Shares Disrupting Shoal’s quality of drawback-not-drawback in an Undoing shell. A worse Vapor Snag that infuriates Twin players.
Permission
Spell Snare: Soft permission loses value when we draw opponents into so many lands. Snare favorably answers Modern’s best cards throughout a game.
*Remand: Cantripping disruption. Practically Cryptic Command before an Undoing, since opponents won't have a second chance to cast their spell and we can almost certainly cast the card drawn off Remand. Best in midrange-heavy and aggro-light metas.
Flashfreeze: Nope, you’re in the right section. Mainboard Flashfreeze looks increasingly attractive to me as this metagame develops, hitting something crucial in nearly every deck and giving us a perfect “no” for really annoying cards.
Cantrips
*Sleight of Hand: Sleight's no Serum Visions, but when it makes you a 1/1, smooths out your draw, and triggers prowess, it’s hard to complain. Cooler deckbuilders will track down foil copies to impress Storm players and literally no one else.
*Faithless Looting: "Cleans up" bad Undoing draws by dumping extra fetchlands, and helps us ensure maximum linearity for Game 1. Post-board, the selection helps us find bullets.
*Mishra's Bauble: Synergizes immensely with Swiftspear and Tarmogoyf, growing the latter past Lightning Bolts even after Undoings. Bauble also improves Undoing itself, since it easily "stores" cards for use after the Twister effect. Unfortunately, it does nothing for Young Pyromancer. Standard order in Banana Phone builds.
Lands
Wooded Foothills, Mountain, Sulfur Falls: Your build and metagame should decide the optimal land for this slot. For instance, lots of combo pushes you towards extra fetchlands, while a Burn-heavy, Moon-heavy meta encourages basic Mountain. Sulfur Falls works best in grindy fields. For very light splashes (i.e. to facilitate running cards like Ancient Grudge), a single red Tango land should suffice (i.e. Cinder Glades).
Splashes and build variations
Enough powerful cards exist in UR that a variety of different iGrow builds are viable. While the one I focus on here is the most streamlined, I've already encountered some other versions that show promise. I won't hesitate to add more builds to this section as they surface and prove themselves.
I presented this mash-up of Monkey Grow and iGrow for the first time in a Modern Nexus article. It combines the strength of Mandrills-Denial with the Day's Undoing package and should do well in metagames packed with combo and midrange. Monkey Grow is better suited to midrange-light metagames, since it struggles in those matchups; meanwhile, iGrow has trouble against aggressive decks and some breeds of combo. Banana Phone sacrifices some consistency to bridge the gap and bring a little more game against everything.
Sideboarding
To ensure the deck's survival against aggro strategies, iGrow's sideboard is often transformational, giving it a midrange plan in games 2 and 3. I've found best creature option for this plan to be Snapcaster Mage in every version but Banana Phone (which prefers Huntmaster of the Fells). Tiago combines with a postboard hard removal suite to work properly. The cantrips in iGrow also enable the deck to run hoser cards against Modern's more dangerous linear decks.
Midrange package
Snapcaster Mage: The preferred enabler for a postboard midrange plan. Snapcaster gives extra value to the instants and sorceries we bring in against aggressive decks, doubling up our removal and hosers while providing a body for beats.
$Huntmaster of the Fells: Better in Banana Phone, which does a better midrange impression than regular iGrow in games 2 and 3 thanks to Stubborn Denial. Snapcaster is more tempo-oriented, but with the right support cards, Huntmaster proves more powerful.
Forked Bolt: Our best post-board removal spell. Crushes Elves, Affinity, and tokens while having uses against dork decks, Abzan, and Burn. Can kill x/2 creatures, giving it more versatility than Electrickery.
Roast: A little worse than bounce effects at removing big creatures, but it does get rid of Siege Rhino.
Threads of Disloyalty: In a deck so concerned with tempo, the tempo swings gained from resolving a Threads are too good to pass up. Insane against Goyf decks and fine against aggro strategies ranging from Elves to Burn.
Electrickery: iGrow's sweeper of choice, Electrickery leaves our Pyromancer tokens untouched and obliterates a horde of Spirit tokens, 1/1 Soldiers, enemy Elementals, or Noble Hierarchs.
Pyroclasm: Pyroclasm is one of the strongest spells in Modern, dismantling entire archetypes on its own. iGrow included! Rough // Tumble can also work, since it never kills any of Banana Phone's creatures, but it fails to hit Vault Skirge and other annoying fliers.
Hurkyl's Recall: Better against Affinity than Ancient Grudge in this deck, which can make great use of an empty board. Blows out an all-in attack, pops Glimmervoids, and breaks board stalls.
$Destructive Revelry: Still the best of its kind. A flexible effect on a cheap card with damage attached.
Snapback: Vapor Snag # 5-6. Even better than Snag against midrange decks with fatties. Tapping out and blowing out creature combos anyways feels so good.
Send to Sleep: Breaks aggro board stalls like nothing else. Great for pushing through extra points of damage or buying time before stabilizing with Snapcaster Mage.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Any consideration for Quirion Dryad? It seems like there are a ton of spells being cast, and very few at green. At worst it's a good budget replacement for Tarmogoyf.
Any consideration for Quirion Dryad? It seems like there are a ton of spells being cast, and very few at green. At worst it's a good budget replacement for Tarmogoyf.
No, for the same reasons Dryad has never been good in Modern. It dies to Bolt before it gets huge and requires a lot of work to do anything. Something like Decay or Path can also erase all the work that's been done. Budget lists should skip green altogether, as covered in the primer.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
hello i'm not sur that tarmogoyf is relevant here ...
why don't you try white splash with something like monastery mentor, path to exil, wear tear in sideboard?
maybe you can make a black splash to play kolaghan's command and tasigur. if day's undoing give you the tempo you can easily use tasigur's abilities or play 3cmc for monastery mentor?
Hi
I think 4 delver/4 pyro/4 swiftpear is the best creature split with this kind of list..
It is, but you need 16 creatures for reasons explained above. Goyf has tested the best for me in the extra spot. We've actually been discussing this list for awhile in the Monkey Grow thread, starting around here (and ending here). If you're interested on how I came to the list I have, or on the choices, I explain them in the primer, in the articles at the bottom of the primer, and in the thread I just linked you to.
I'm very open to discussing alternate builds and card choices, but you have to defend your arguments. "Blah blah seems like the best spread" doesn't help anybody, it just shows that you didn't do any reading. I've been working on this archetype since Day's Undoing was spoiled and have found something consistent and powerful. It would benefit you to at least read about my development process before suggesting something and it would benefit everyone else in the thread if you could then justify your suggestions with the work I've already put in in mind. I don't see how it's different from academic research; before someone embarks on a thesis, for instance, he checks through research that has already been conducted to make sure he's not doing work that's already been done and really contributing something novel. I also don't mean to offend or be harsh, but the laziness among MTGSalvation users astounds me. If you're not even interested enough in the deck to click on the links I've posted for you, why do you want to discuss it at all?
With that out of the way, I went 4-0 at a new store (Le Beginner, Longueuil) with RUG iGrow tonight. Report after the list:
Round 1 vs. Grishoalbrand (2-0, on the draw): First time playing against this deck. Game 1, my opponent leads with a Temple of Malice and I immediately put him on Grishoalbrand. I slam two Delvers and flip them with a Serum Visions scry while my opponent durdles around trying to make something happen. Probe shows me a Through the Breach and Worldspine Wurm, so when he makes his third land drop and casts Desperate Ritual, I assume he drew a Spirit Guide (I was right, and he pitches the Guide to a Looting some turns later). I Shoal the Ritual since I'm tapped out, otherwise my Vapor Snags would have handled the Wurm. He never gets Griselbrand into the graveyard but does gain 11 life off a Nourishing Shoal, which buys him two turns of Aberration attacks. In game 2, my opponent mulls down to 6 cards and keeps a shaky opener. I beat him with Pyro and Goyf before he can even find a fatty for the graveyard, keeping my Undoing in hand in case he manages to bin one.
Plan:
-2 Sleight of Hand
-1 Lightning Bolt
+1 Snapback
+2 Send to Sleep
Round 2 vs. Grixis Control (2-0, on the draw): Got paired with @Radouf for this one. Game 1, I out-aggro him with a bunch of threats, knowing there aren't any sweepers in the mainboard. Radouf tries to spend his cards as quickly as possible to get around Day's Undoing, which I never even draw. One Goyf gets Terminated, but the next one lives. Radouf Bolts it and Delves after but miscounts the card types in his enormous graveyard and ends up a few points short of actually killing it. I just attack around the Tasigur for lethal. Game 2, I have turn 1 Delver (blind flip!) into turn 2 Goyf (2/3 from Radouf's Visions). Radouf untaps and slams Anger of the Gods. I respond by Snapbacking my Aberration, which grows Goyf past the Anger. He can't find another sweeper and Snag takes care of Anglers.
Plan:
-2 Sleight of Hand
-2 Gitaxian Probe
+3 Snapcaster Mage
+1 Snapback
Round 3 vs. Affinity (2-1, on the draw): Game 1, we both mulligan to 5. I keep Serum, Delver, Bolt, Goyf, and... Stomping Ground. I then skillfully rip a Misty Rainforest and cast Delver. My opponent leads with a lonely Memnite, which I Bolt the next turn. He finally finds a land, but it's not enough without the Memnite to turn on the Drum and Opal he has in hand, and Delver + Goyf beat him up. Game 2, I Bolt a Pest and let a Ravager through. Instead of killing it right away, I opt to get a Pyromancer on the table, which should help me actually kill my opponent while I interact with him. My opponent curves into Etched Champion and follows that with a Plating. I have another Pyromancer but they get Whipflared and I die to Modern's iteration of True Name-Jitte. Game 3, my Pyromancer attacks for increasing amounts of damage as my opponent tries to stick threats onto his double-Plating board. He also has Rest in Peace. I end up going to just 4 life, finding Electrickery and Bolt for his Ornithopter and Signal Pest. I Shoal a Vault Skirge (exiling Snap), Bolt another Pest, and finally, Electrickery a newly drawn Inkmoth Nexus before blocks with my opponent at 3 life.
Round 4 vs. Monkey Grow (2-0, on the draw): Again against a buddy. Game 1, my opponent draws very well, playing Delver into Mandrills with Shoal-Deprive up (he's on my very old build, with just one Simic Charm and a Vapor Snag in the main and a 1-1 Deprive split main and board). For my part, I have Delver into Pyromancer, which gets Shoaled. Goyf ends up walling the Mandrills and my second Pyromancer resolves. I start cantripping and Snagging into tokens and a Swiftspear marks lethal. Game 2, a telegraphed Pyroclasm breaks my Delver and Swiftspear. I slow-rolled the Pyromancer for this occasion, and cast it with a couple of cantrips to regain my board presence. My opponent slams a Mandrills and I Snag it and find a second Shoal to counter the other Pyroclasm with, assuming he has it. He does, and I blow him out.
Plan:
-2 Sleight of Hand
-4 Gitaxian Probe
+2 Send to Sleep
+2 Threads of Disloyalty
+1 Snapback
+1 Flame Slash
Not winning a single die roll sucked, but I felt invincible all night anyway. Unfortunately, didn't get to even cast a Day's Undoing this time. Still had fun and prized okay thanks to a 35-player turnout.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Hi
What are you thinking about 4 simian spirit guide in replacement of 4 lands? (because re-shuffle your fetches with day's undoing seem not good in a 18 lands deck, no?)
I'm testing a list with day's undoing (just UR, without the green splash) and SSG work great in it! (Turn one pyro with a shoal in hand is auto win)
Hi
What are you thinking about 4 simian spirit guide in replacement of 4 lands? (because re-shuffle your fetches with day's undoing seem not good in a 18 lands deck, no?)
I'm testing a list with day's undoing (just UR, without the green splash) and SSG work great in it! (Turn one pyro with a shoal in hand is auto win)
The first Undoing deck I tried had Guides. They don't really work because they don't impact the board enough. So they have the same problem that Undoing Burn has. Additionally, four one-shot mana sources could never replace four lands. This is a deck that wants to gradually get ahead on the board and then cast Undoing, and Guide doesn't help with that at all. Not to mention he doesn't make blue or flip Delver!
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
I worked on a jeskai delver deck recently based off ashtonkutcher's awesome iGrow and Monkey Grow decks. It might not match up quite well as as grixis and RUG but my inner hipster wanted to try to make a competitive deck that was not used by everyone else.
One possible slot I am playing with is switching out the 2 mana leaks for 2 hindering lights as you get a sure counter and you get to draw a card for the same price (just have to ensure that white is there), although on the negative side it is slightly more conditional which always hurts. Another switch from the typical delver decks was to add in monastery mentor over the pyromancer due to the prowess benefit, it hasn't performed badly at all, however my one worry is that it is too slow for a tempo deck. Last issue I had was whether or not I really need Day's Undoing in this deck, after opening 2 (1 foil) on draft night I thought it would be a lot of fun, however with the mentors it seems it might be a little more midrangey so I am just unsure =(. My initial thought is that I either have to cut the mentors or Day's Undoing, however I would much rather keep the day's. Also based off AshtonKutchers's comment from above maybe should I look to sub out goblin guide for young pyromancers? Anyways I am open to suggestions, I love hearing new ideas just be gentle
PS Thank you @ashtonkutcher for starting all of these threads and keeping different decklists organized, I may be new to the community but disorder always irks me
Stellar logic. All decks that will ever be tier 1 or 2 have already been discovered. Might as well lock up the forum here and stop brewing everyone. Format solved.
I worked on a jeskai delver deck recently based off ashtonkutcher's awesome iGrow and Monkey Grow decks. It might not match up quite well as as grixis and RUG but my inner hipster wanted to try to make a competitive deck that was not used by everyone else.
One possible slot I am playing with is switching out the 2 mana leaks for 2 hindering lights as you get a sure counter and you get to draw a card for the same price (just have to ensure that white is there), although on the negative side it is slightly more conditional which always hurts. Another switch from the typical delver decks was to add in monastery mentor over the pyromancer due to the prowess benefit, it hasn't performed badly at all, however my one worry is that it is too slow for a tempo deck. Last issue I had was whether or not I really need Day's Undoing in this deck, after opening 2 (1 foil) on draft night I thought it would be a lot of fun, however with the mentors it seems it might be a little more midrangey so I am just unsure =(. My initial thought is that I either have to cut the mentors or Day's Undoing, however I would much rather keep the day's. Also based off AshtonKutchers's comment from above maybe should I look to sub out goblin guide for young pyromancers? Anyways I am open to suggestions, I love hearing new ideas just be gentle
PS Thank you @ashtonkutcher for starting all of these threads and keeping different decklists organized, I may be new to the community but disorder always irks me
A couple notes on card choices:
- Mentor is too slow. My buddy tried a Jeskai build with Mentor and ended up switching to Banana Phone because the card just doesn't come out early enough. Undoing requires a very low curve to work. Making dudes when you cast spells is really nice, though, so you probably want Pyromancer in this slot. In other words, you should just go UR.
- Guide is fine if he beats up on your meta (not many creature decks).
- Mana Leak is better as Remand or Snare, both of which are great with Undoing. Leak gets horrible after you Undo because opponents make enough land drops to pay the tax. It's still better than Hindering Light, though, which as you mentioned isn't versatile enough. If you want a Hindering Light effect, try Gods Willing or Turn Aside. The extra card doesn't matter much on an Undoing plan.
I don't understand the "inner hipster" thing - trust me, we are the only people playing this deck.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Check the article on Banana Phone at the end of the primer, I analyzed a Grixis variant and made a case for why I think RUG is strictly better. I'll add one to the primer if it starts seeing results.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
- Mentor is too slow. My buddy tried a Jeskai build with Mentor and ended up switching to Banana Phone because the card just doesn't come out early enough. Undoing requires a very low curve to work. Making dudes when you cast spells is really nice, though, so you probably want Pyromancer in this slot. In other words, you should just go UR.
- Guide is fine if he beats up on your meta (not many creature decks).
- Mana Leak is better as Remand or Snare, both of which are great with Undoing. Leak gets horrible after you Undo because opponents make enough land drops to pay the tax. It's still better than Hindering Light, though, which as you mentioned isn't versatile enough. If you want a Hindering Light effect, try Gods Willing or Turn Aside. The extra card doesn't matter much on an Undoing plan.
I don't understand the "inner hipster" thing - trust me, we are the only people playing this deck.
Word??? That many people don't play it? I'm not gonna lie man this deck really doesn't lose to anything short of a typical burn deck catching fire, or maybe a cheap creature heavy deck (naya zoo) doing the same thing. And that is with my Jeskai deck, your RUG deck is better for sure, I've tested it on xMage and it amazing; just a lot of money atm considering I just had to pony up for my masters (-.-)
As for the "inner hipster" I don't wanna copy your deck 100%, partially because I want to feel just a little original. Although I will say most likely I will give abbot of keral keep a try for sure, and taking out goblin guide. I knew the monastery mentor was probably a little too slow, so I will be going back to yp. Also, flashfreeze to me looks like the card I will try to run 2 of in my mainboard. I have used sleight of hand before and it worked ok, but in my area flashfreeze would be dominant. Lots of decks running coco, tarmogoyf, and the ever so common burn decks. Plus always nice to have a sure answer to a lightning bolt and a 2 drop to use with disrupting shoal. AKA 100% copied lol =P
Also quick thought, what is your opinion of jace, vryn's prodigy's potential in this deck, and how you feel it will stack up to snapcaster mage in the future.
Stellar logic. All decks that will ever be tier 1 or 2 have already been discovered. Might as well lock up the forum here and stop brewing everyone. Format solved.
- Mentor is too slow. My buddy tried a Jeskai build with Mentor and ended up switching to Banana Phone because the card just doesn't come out early enough. Undoing requires a very low curve to work. Making dudes when you cast spells is really nice, though, so you probably want Pyromancer in this slot. In other words, you should just go UR.
- Guide is fine if he beats up on your meta (not many creature decks).
- Mana Leak is better as Remand or Snare, both of which are great with Undoing. Leak gets horrible after you Undo because opponents make enough land drops to pay the tax. It's still better than Hindering Light, though, which as you mentioned isn't versatile enough. If you want a Hindering Light effect, try Gods Willing or Turn Aside. The extra card doesn't matter much on an Undoing plan.
I don't understand the "inner hipster" thing - trust me, we are the only people playing this deck.
Word??? That many people don't play it? I'm not gonna lie man this deck really doesn't lose to anything short of a typical burn deck catching fire, or maybe a cheap creature heavy deck (naya zoo) doing the same thing. And that is with my Jeskai deck, your RUG deck is better for sure, I've tested it on xMage and it amazing; just a lot of money atm considering I just had to pony up for my masters (-.-)
As for the "inner hipster" I don't wanna copy your deck 100%, partially because I want to feel just a little original. Although I will say most likely I will give abbot of keral keep a try for sure, and taking out goblin guide. I knew the monastery mentor was probably a little too slow, so I will be going back to yp. Also, flashfreeze to me looks like the card I will try to run 2 of in my mainboard. I have used sleight of hand before and it worked ok, but in my area flashfreeze would be dominant. Lots of decks running coco, tarmogoyf, and the ever so common burn decks. Plus always nice to have a sure answer to a lightning bolt and a 2 drop to use with disrupting shoal. AKA 100% copied lol =P
Also quick thought, what is your opinion of jace, vryn's prodigy's potential in this deck, and how you feel it will stack up to snapcaster mage in the future.
Given that I invented this deck about a month ago, and it hasn't yet put up any finishes, I think it's safe to say that nobody's playing it. Nothing wrong with copying 100%; I don't expect anyone to bring valuable insights to the discussion without first understanding where I'm coming from. So hammer out a bunch of games with my list and report back! On Flashfreeze, be careful about including enough cantrips (or 19 lands). Went over it in the primer. On Jace, he does nothing in this deck. We need all our bodies to be aggressive. Snapcaster is only run in the sideboard for when we transition into a midrange plan, and Jace doesn't help us out there, either.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
So after a bunch more testing last night I came to a few conclusions over the course of 6 separate matches:
1) As expected young pyromancer vastly outperformed monastery mentor, yp averaged 3.7 tokens, and roughly 8 damage per game(including token damage) vs monastery mentor who averaged a mere 1.3 tokens and 2.3 damage(yes he died/got countered before even a full turn in most of my games).
2) flashfreeze works better in the sideboard, although I would possibly mainboard it at my LGS.(lots of collected elves, RG tron, burn and a few azban as well) It seems like the winner for my last spot is going to be sleight of hand, it might not be a ponder but it definitely helps sort through the deck to ensure useful draws. Remand was nice, just not as nice.
3) At least in the games I played I really think goblin guide out performed abbot of keral keep. They both typically lived 2 turns, however goblin guide's damage output averaged 3.8 (doing 4 damage in every game but 1 due to a bolt) Abbot of Keral Keep averaged 1.5. While his prowess and ability are both awesome, his ability is better post turn 3 otherwise you just don't have the mana.
Stellar logic. All decks that will ever be tier 1 or 2 have already been discovered. Might as well lock up the forum here and stop brewing everyone. Format solved.
This deck is terrible! I'm testing today, and my results are :
2-1 junk voice
2-1 UWR control
1-2 grixis Control
2-1 tarmo faeries
2-1 scapeshift
2-1 goblin
Here's my list :
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
I have been testing this deck online a bunch lately, and I am still not convinced Goyf is better in this list than Abbot. They both attack for similar amounts of damage (3-4), but Abbot is also allows you to grind against other URx and BGx decks while not putting more pressure on an already strained manabase.
The list I have been playing:
Young Pyromancer has been an underperformer, and I find that I am siding it out in a lot of matchups (URx, Affinity, Abzan, etc), and I am not sure it fits into the game we are trying to play. Like Abbot, the card really wants to be played turn 3+, but there is only so much room for those cards, and I think Abbot is better. I am going to be testing goblin guide in this slot instead.
I was really unhappy playing with Sulfur Falls, as you often need to keep one landers, and it just doesn't get the job done. The deck really wants a fastland, but alas :/
Interesting, I've found Pyromancer to be the best threat, far and away, in each of those matchups (except for against Twin decks, where Goyf is the best). Not sure what you mean by "strained manabase?" Abbot is definitely good here, it's just an issue of opening yourself up to more hate. We're already a little soft to Pyroclasm in games 2 and 3, and Abbot does nothing to help that problem. I also gave up on Sulfur Falls, but it's fine in a meta with Choke.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
I just find that you rarely get to attack with it, and the tokens it generates get invalidated so easily that it doesnt feel like I am gaining any significant advantage when it sticks. The deck really wants to play a creature on turn one and ride it to victory, and playing 12 "delvers" feels like the best way to further this plan.
By "strained" I mean that this deck has pretty stringent requirements for a two colored deck. Having a basic in your opening hand feels terrible with so many one drops in both colors, it really limits how many spells you can play in a turn. I am only running 3 basics in the 2 color list, I can't imagine what a rug manabase on 18 land would look like.
The deck really wants to play a creature on turn one and ride it to victory, and playing 12 "delvers" feels like the best way to further this plan.
By "strained" I mean that this deck has pretty stringent requirements for a two colored deck. Having a basic in your opening hand feels terrible with so many one drops in both colors, it really limits how many spells you can play in a turn. I am only running 3 basics in the 2 color list, I can't imagine what a rug manabase on 18 land would look like.
Actually no, that's not what this deck wants to do at all. If that was our plan, we'd play more counterspells. This deck wants to overwhelm opponents with cards, damage, and threats via Day's Undoing, and Pyromancer is frequently the best creature for those jobs. You must be thinking of Monkey Grow?
If you can't imagine what a land-light RUG manabase would look like, consider checking out that Monkey Grow thread. The deck actually has tournament results, and it even runs a set of Huntmaster of the Fells and some Blood Moons in the board! Delver decks definitely push the limits of what a manabase can do, but I wouldn't call the ours "strained." It's mostly a matter of learning how to operate on one or two lands, especially when one is basic.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
I didn't mean it in the sense that these creatures are always crossing the finish line. In my experience, the deck wants to play a one drop, shoal their removal/haymaker, and then use snags and bolt to push through damage. Once I start running out of gas, I drop the Abbot and Day's Undoing hoping to draw into enough reach to finish them off. I think that the damage guide can do in the early game will be more valuable than the incidental value YP provide. This is exaggerated in the post board games where, like you said, U/R is very vulnerable to sweeper effects.
I didn't mean it in the sense that these creatures are always crossing the finish line. In my experience, the deck wants to play a one drop, shoal their removal/haymaker, and then use snags and bolt to push through damage. Once I start running out of gas, I drop the Abbot and Day's Undoing hoping to draw into enough reach to finish them off. I think that the damage guide can do in the early game will be more valuable than the incidental value YP provide. This is exaggerated in the post board games where, like you said, U/R is very vulnerable to sweeper effects.
Really depends on your metagame. Guide tends to be horrible against other creature decks and stellar against Combo.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
I'm still on Monkey Grow; but wow, this is awesome. Great deck and write-up, Jordan.
Glad you like it! I don't play in many locals anymore but went 3-0 in one tonight. Gonna bring this deck to WMCQ Toronto next weekend. The sideboard gives us so much game against Aggro I feel like the only decks we really lose to are Zoo (a lot of the time), Abzan (sometimes), and Scapeshift (when we can't race them). So far I haven't lost a match to Scapeshift in tournaments, but the games have definitely been close. But hey, nobody plays that pile anyway!
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
From my Modern Nexus article on Day's Undoing: Like Gush and Treasure Cruise before it, Day's Undoing gives tempo decks the most dangerous weapon they can ask for - more cards. Just as control decks sacrifice their early game for a stellar top-end, tempo decks boast enormous power in the early game in exchange for any relevance later on. Gush, Treasure Cruise, and now Day's Undoing allow them to not only maintain relevance, but to dictate the pace of the late game as they do the first few turns.
A sample list:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Stormchaser Mage
4 Young Pyromancer
Instant (12)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Vapor Snag
4 Disrupting Shoal
Sorcery (14)
4 Serum Visions
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Sleight of Hand
4 Day’s Undoing
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Sulfur Falls
3 Steam Vents
3 Island
2 Mountain
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Smash to Smithereens
2 Blood Moon
1 Threads of Disloyalty
1 Send to Sleep
2 Spell Pierce
2 Forked Bolt
1 Electrickery
As with Monkey Grow and Counter-Cat, the main draw to iGrow is the exhilaration the grow archetype gives players. Grixis Delver occasionally offers the same feeling, when a turn 1 Delver blind-flips and then secures a victory before opponents find a Lightning Bolt. But frequently, Modern’s other Delver decks fall back on grindy midrange plans as their threats become outclassed. iGrow plays like Treasure Cruise Delver, though it punishes pilots more dearly for their mistakes. Strategically, iGrow offers entomologists a grow deck more resistant to midrange than any other in exchange for some points against aggro strategies.
Gameplan
Day’s Undoing demands some careful maneuvering to pull casters way ahead, rewarding those paying close attention to the board, damage, and hand states and clearly visualizing their short- and long-term goals in a game. In general, the deck aims to slam a bunch of threats, securing a board advantage at the cost of cards in hand. Then, it casts Day's Undoing, putting the game away against opponents trying to win on other metrics (such as by accruing incremental advantage). Understanding how and when to play Day's Undoing is the trickiest part of playing the deck, and I've written an article on casting the card here.
Deckbuilding guidelines
A highly streamlined deck, iGrow doesn’t offer much room to improvise, leaving just two flex spots after we fill in the lands. That said, as long as pilots follow a set of rules, they may have success with the deck even while tweaking the core numbers - for instance, a metagame with hardly any creatures might encourage players to shave Vapor Snag's numbers. The deck requires a whopping 16 creatures to function optimally. As for lands, different players prefer different spreads, with some including Sulfur Falls, Wooded Foothills, or extra basics in UR versions. Splashes obviously require a slightly overhalued manabase. This deck should aim to play 18, since it needs to cast Undoing on-curve and benefits from making land drops up to the fourth against midrange decks. A 19th land should inhabit one of the two flex spots unless deckbuilders spend them both on cantrips (indicated in the flex spots section with a *).
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Stormchaser Mage
Instant (12)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Vapor Snag
4 Disrupting Shoal
4 Serum Visions
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Day’s Undoing
Land (14)
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
3 Island
1 Mountain
Creatures
iGrow's creatures must be efficient enough to come in before an Undoing and impactful enough to end games on their own. Each threat compliments the others in a unique way.
Monastery Swiftspear: Another highly efficient one-drop and probably the best creature in the deck. Swiftspear regularly hits for 4 or 5 after an Undoing, a number rendered obscene by multiples. It also dodges removal with enough instants.
Stormchaser Mage: The card that brought us down to two colors. Stormchaser pitches to Shoal, flies over defenses, and OTKs after a Day's Undoing, doubling our chances of finding a "Swiftspear" for the next turn.
Young Pyromancer: With Disrupting Shoal backup, it’s easy to carry a game away with just one Young Pyromancer. Otherwise, he should be paced until he guarantees value, only coming down with one more cantrip ready. I’ve won many games just off 1/1 tokens generated before my Pyromancer immediately ate a Lightning Bolt. Gives the deck an ability to go wider than other aggro decks.
Our spells either find or support Day's Undoing. Again, cheap mana costs are necessary for inclusion.
Vapor Snag: Unconditional removal with Day’s Undoing. Gurmag Angler has never looked so stupid.
Gitaxian Probe: In Monkey Grow, Probe "provides perfect information, pitches to Shoal, grows Tarmogoyf, flips Delver, and lowers our land count.” In iGrow, it does even more.
Since iGrow's creation, I've fielded some confusion about Day's Undoing's interaction with fetchlands. It's true that we shuffle used fetches back into the deck, and drawing them again can prove frustrating, but for each fetch that returns to the deck, we've already extracted ("fetched!") a land from the deck and put it into play. In this way, we don't fill the deck back up with additional lands; we break even on them. An unfortunate result of this system is the extra damage we take from our lands, but in green builds, the ability to grow a reset Tarmogoyf right back up with a new fetchland offsets this disadvantage. In addition, builds with delve spells can abuse fetches in the graveyard to ensure they draw more business post-Undoing. Splash or no, the most obvious reason to run fetchlands is the amazing color consistency they provide compared with other fixing lands.
iGrow doesn't sport an especially high curve, but since lands cost "0" mana, the deck must run a good amount of them - both to ensure earlier Undoings and to improve the ones we cast. Cards that impact the board for no mana greatly synergize with our main plan. On what lands to run, Mountain is better than Forest, considering the deck's high density of red spells and the importance of life preservation after Undoings give everyone their Bolts back. Forest is still necessary, either in the main (where it causes some mulligan issues) or in the side (where it causes spatial issues), in splash builds on a Blood Moon plan. Either way, I've found four basic lands to test the best when splashing, and prefer five on two colors.
Flex spots
These cards fill the two gaps left by the iGrow core. Any of them can also earn slots in the sideboard, or even replace core cards in deeply understood metas. One should be a land unless they both cantrip (cards that do are marked with a "*," and cards requiring color splashes earn a "$").
Goblin Guide: Fine in metagames packed with combo and nonred control as a fast threat, but generally left out.
*Abbot of Keral Keep: Formally the preferred threat over Tarmogoyf should your passion for flying insects surpass the girth of your wallet. Now, we have Stormchaser Mage, making Tarmogoyf practically obsolete in this deck. Look to Abbot if you desire more threats in UR.
Snapcaster Mage: A Delver-deck mainstay, Snapcaster lives in the flex spots because he accrues incremental card advantage - something that Undoing does much more efficiently and also cancels out. Tiago improves post-board in matchups that don’t want any Undoings and benefit greatly from his trademark Lightning Bolt interaction.
Thing in the Ice: Some early testing with this newcomer suggests that iGrow is too fast to make great use of it, but the Bolt-proof body could prove relevant in the future.
Vendilion Clique: Disruption on an aggressive, evasive body. In a longer game, we can even draw-step it after an Undoing. Unfortunately, Clique can prove hard to cast before one.
$Tarmogoyf: Our threats all fail the Bolt test. They even fail the Magma Spray test. Goyf blanks a hefty chunk of boarded-in removal and attacks for big chunks every turn.
$Hooting Mandrills: Easy to cast, even after Undoings. Mandrills was an all-star in my testing and is the best threat to support the core suite in an unknown meta. Avoid him, and green, altogether in builds without Tarmogoyf.
Removal/reach
Forked Bolt: Red removal shores up aggro matchups without sacrificing much against other archetypes, since reach is especially strong with Day’s Undoing. The creature decks that beat us go wide faster, meaning Vapor Snag has trouble resetting them. Resultantly, Forked Bolt stands strong as the best card here, and should be included at least in the sideboard in multiples.
Tarfire: Surprise-grows Tarmogoyf, countering a post-Undoing Bolt, Pyroclasm, or even Flame Slash aimed at his nubile body.
Pillar of Flame: Kitchen Finks can be pretty annoying for a deck trying to get in with Young Pyromancer.
Snapback: Shares Disrupting Shoal’s quality of drawback-not-drawback in an Undoing shell. A worse Vapor Snag that infuriates Twin players.
Permission
Spell Snare: Soft permission loses value when we draw opponents into so many lands. Snare favorably answers Modern’s best cards throughout a game.
*Remand: Cantripping disruption. Practically Cryptic Command before an Undoing, since opponents won't have a second chance to cast their spell and we can almost certainly cast the card drawn off Remand. Best in midrange-heavy and aggro-light metas.
Flashfreeze: Nope, you’re in the right section. Mainboard Flashfreeze looks increasingly attractive to me as this metagame develops, hitting something crucial in nearly every deck and giving us a perfect “no” for really annoying cards.
Cantrips
*Sleight of Hand: Sleight's no Serum Visions, but when it makes you a 1/1, smooths out your draw, and triggers prowess, it’s hard to complain. Cooler deckbuilders will track down foil copies to impress Storm players and literally no one else.
*Faithless Looting: "Cleans up" bad Undoing draws by dumping extra fetchlands, and helps us ensure maximum linearity for Game 1. Post-board, the selection helps us find bullets.
*Mishra's Bauble: Synergizes immensely with Swiftspear and Tarmogoyf, growing the latter past Lightning Bolts even after Undoings. Bauble also improves Undoing itself, since it easily "stores" cards for use after the Twister effect. Unfortunately, it does nothing for Young Pyromancer. Standard order in Banana Phone builds.
Lands
Wooded Foothills, Mountain, Sulfur Falls: Your build and metagame should decide the optimal land for this slot. For instance, lots of combo pushes you towards extra fetchlands, while a Burn-heavy, Moon-heavy meta encourages basic Mountain. Sulfur Falls works best in grindy fields. For very light splashes (i.e. to facilitate running cards like Ancient Grudge), a single red Tango land should suffice (i.e. Cinder Glades).
Enough powerful cards exist in UR that a variety of different iGrow builds are viable. While the one I focus on here is the most streamlined, I've already encountered some other versions that show promise. I won't hesitate to add more builds to this section as they surface and prove themselves.
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Hooting Mandrills
Sorcery (11)
4 Serum Visions
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Day's Undoing
Instant (13)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Disrupting Shoal
3 Stubborn Denial
2 Vapor Snag
4 Mishra's Bauble
Land (17)
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Steam Vents
1 Breeding Pool
1 Stomping Ground
2 Island
1 Forest
3 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Destructive Revelry
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Pyroclasm
2 Vapor Snag
1 Send to Sleep
1 Feed the Clan
1 Stubborn Denial
1 Day’s Undoing
To ensure the deck's survival against aggro strategies, iGrow's sideboard is often transformational, giving it a midrange plan in games 2 and 3. I've found best creature option for this plan to be Snapcaster Mage in every version but Banana Phone (which prefers Huntmaster of the Fells). Tiago combines with a postboard hard removal suite to work properly. The cantrips in iGrow also enable the deck to run hoser cards against Modern's more dangerous linear decks.
Midrange package
$Huntmaster of the Fells: Better in Banana Phone, which does a better midrange impression than regular iGrow in games 2 and 3 thanks to Stubborn Denial. Snapcaster is more tempo-oriented, but with the right support cards, Huntmaster proves more powerful.
Pillar of Flame: Can be run as a one- or two-off over some number of Forked Bolt in metagames packed with Voice of Resurgence and Kitchen Finks. Murderous Redcap also gives iGrow a hard time. Pillar unfortunately doesn't throw creatures into the graveyard for Tarmogoyf.
Flame Slash: Especially potent against Zoo, which walls our attackers with Loxodon Smiter and Knight of the Reliquary. For some of us, it took a few weeks of ruefully casting Bathe in Dragonfire in Fate Reforged Limited to understand the unrivaled efficiency of Flame Slash.
Roast: A little worse than bounce effects at removing big creatures, but it does get rid of Siege Rhino.
Threads of Disloyalty: In a deck so concerned with tempo, the tempo swings gained from resolving a Threads are too good to pass up. Insane against Goyf decks and fine against aggro strategies ranging from Elves to Burn.
Electrickery: iGrow's sweeper of choice, Electrickery leaves our Pyromancer tokens untouched and obliterates a horde of Spirit tokens, 1/1 Soldiers, enemy Elementals, or Noble Hierarchs.
Pyroclasm: Pyroclasm is one of the strongest spells in Modern, dismantling entire archetypes on its own. iGrow included! Rough // Tumble can also work, since it never kills any of Banana Phone's creatures, but it fails to hit Vault Skirge and other annoying fliers.
Hurkyl's Recall: Better against Affinity than Ancient Grudge in this deck, which can make great use of an empty board. Blows out an all-in attack, pops Glimmervoids, and breaks board stalls.
$Back to Nature: The best anti-Bogles combat trick.
Blood Moon: Does this card really need an explanation?
$Destructive Revelry: Still the best of its kind. A flexible effect on a cheap card with damage attached.
Snapback: Vapor Snag # 5-6. Even better than Snag against midrange decks with fatties. Tapping out and blowing out creature combos anyways feels so good.
Send to Sleep: Breaks aggro board stalls like nothing else. Great for pushing through extra points of damage or buying time before stabilizing with Snapcaster Mage.
Tempo After Day's Undoing and Magic Origins - Article on Undoing in Modern tempo decks.
Power Calls: iGrow and Broken Tempo - Some insights and fleshed-out testing results with an initial draft.
Oops, I Undid It Again: Two Top 8's With iGrow - Tournament report from a pair of PPTQs with the deck.
Best of Both Worlds: Your Weekly Undoing Digest - A Day's Undoing primer and the introduction of the Banana Phone variant.
Pyromancer iGrows Up: WMCQ Toronto - High-level tournament report with iGrow.
Modern with Michael: Stormchaser Mage TempoGrow - A Pucatrade article about the importance of Stormchaser Mage to iGrow.
As iGrow evolves, I'll spoiler-tag defunct sections of the primer here.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
I think 4 delver/4 pyro/4 swiftpear is the best creature split with this kind of list..
I'm very open to discussing alternate builds and card choices, but you have to defend your arguments. "Blah blah seems like the best spread" doesn't help anybody, it just shows that you didn't do any reading. I've been working on this archetype since Day's Undoing was spoiled and have found something consistent and powerful. It would benefit you to at least read about my development process before suggesting something and it would benefit everyone else in the thread if you could then justify your suggestions with the work I've already put in in mind. I don't see how it's different from academic research; before someone embarks on a thesis, for instance, he checks through research that has already been conducted to make sure he's not doing work that's already been done and really contributing something novel. I also don't mean to offend or be harsh, but the laziness among MTGSalvation users astounds me. If you're not even interested enough in the deck to click on the links I've posted for you, why do you want to discuss it at all?
With that out of the way, I went 4-0 at a new store (Le Beginner, Longueuil) with RUG iGrow tonight. Report after the list:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Tarmogoyf
Instant (12)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Vapor Snag
4 Disrupting Shoal
Sorcery (14)
4 Serum Visions
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Sleight of Hand
4 Day’s Undoing
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Steam Vents
1 Breeding Pool
1 Stomping Ground
3 Island
1 Mountain
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Destructive Revelry
2 Threads of Disloyalty
2 Send to Sleep
1 Snapback
2 Forked Bolt
2 Electrickery
1 Flame Slash
Plan:
-2 Sleight of Hand
-1 Lightning Bolt
+1 Snapback
+2 Send to Sleep
Round 2 vs. Grixis Control (2-0, on the draw): Got paired with @Radouf for this one. Game 1, I out-aggro him with a bunch of threats, knowing there aren't any sweepers in the mainboard. Radouf tries to spend his cards as quickly as possible to get around Day's Undoing, which I never even draw. One Goyf gets Terminated, but the next one lives. Radouf Bolts it and Delves after but miscounts the card types in his enormous graveyard and ends up a few points short of actually killing it. I just attack around the Tasigur for lethal. Game 2, I have turn 1 Delver (blind flip!) into turn 2 Goyf (2/3 from Radouf's Visions). Radouf untaps and slams Anger of the Gods. I respond by Snapbacking my Aberration, which grows Goyf past the Anger. He can't find another sweeper and Snag takes care of Anglers.
Plan:
-2 Sleight of Hand
-2 Gitaxian Probe
+3 Snapcaster Mage
+1 Snapback
Round 3 vs. Affinity (2-1, on the draw): Game 1, we both mulligan to 5. I keep Serum, Delver, Bolt, Goyf, and... Stomping Ground. I then skillfully rip a Misty Rainforest and cast Delver. My opponent leads with a lonely Memnite, which I Bolt the next turn. He finally finds a land, but it's not enough without the Memnite to turn on the Drum and Opal he has in hand, and Delver + Goyf beat him up. Game 2, I Bolt a Pest and let a Ravager through. Instead of killing it right away, I opt to get a Pyromancer on the table, which should help me actually kill my opponent while I interact with him. My opponent curves into Etched Champion and follows that with a Plating. I have another Pyromancer but they get Whipflared and I die to Modern's iteration of True Name-Jitte. Game 3, my Pyromancer attacks for increasing amounts of damage as my opponent tries to stick threats onto his double-Plating board. He also has Rest in Peace. I end up going to just 4 life, finding Electrickery and Bolt for his Ornithopter and Signal Pest. I Shoal a Vault Skirge (exiling Snap), Bolt another Pest, and finally, Electrickery a newly drawn Inkmoth Nexus before blocks with my opponent at 3 life.
Plan:
-4 Day’s Undoing
-3 Gitaxian Probe
-4 Monastery Swiftspear
-2 Sleight of Hand
+3 Snapcaster Mage
+2 Destructive Revelry
+2 Electrickery
+2 Threads of Disloyalty
+1 Snapback
+1 Flame Slash
+2 Forked Bolt
Round 4 vs. Monkey Grow (2-0, on the draw): Again against a buddy. Game 1, my opponent draws very well, playing Delver into Mandrills with Shoal-Deprive up (he's on my very old build, with just one Simic Charm and a Vapor Snag in the main and a 1-1 Deprive split main and board). For my part, I have Delver into Pyromancer, which gets Shoaled. Goyf ends up walling the Mandrills and my second Pyromancer resolves. I start cantripping and Snagging into tokens and a Swiftspear marks lethal. Game 2, a telegraphed Pyroclasm breaks my Delver and Swiftspear. I slow-rolled the Pyromancer for this occasion, and cast it with a couple of cantrips to regain my board presence. My opponent slams a Mandrills and I Snag it and find a second Shoal to counter the other Pyroclasm with, assuming he has it. He does, and I blow him out.
Plan:
-2 Sleight of Hand
-4 Gitaxian Probe
+2 Send to Sleep
+2 Threads of Disloyalty
+1 Snapback
+1 Flame Slash
Not winning a single die roll sucked, but I felt invincible all night anyway. Unfortunately, didn't get to even cast a Day's Undoing this time. Still had fun and prized okay thanks to a 35-player turnout.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
What are you thinking about 4 simian spirit guide in replacement of 4 lands? (because re-shuffle your fetches with day's undoing seem not good in a 18 lands deck, no?)
I'm testing a list with day's undoing (just UR, without the green splash) and SSG work great in it! (Turn one pyro with a shoal in hand is auto win)
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
4x goblin guide
4x monastery swiftspear
4x monastery mentor
4x lightning bolt
4x disrupting shoal
4x vapor snag
2x mana leak
4x day's undoing
4x serum visions
4x gitaxian probe
4x scalding tarn
2x steam vents
1x sulfur falls
3x island
1x plains
2x sacred foundry
1x hallowed fountain
3x blood moon
2x forked bolt
2x electrickery
2x path to exile
2x hurkyl's recall
2x jace, vryn's prodigy
One possible slot I am playing with is switching out the 2 mana leaks for 2 hindering lights as you get a sure counter and you get to draw a card for the same price (just have to ensure that white is there), although on the negative side it is slightly more conditional which always hurts. Another switch from the typical delver decks was to add in monastery mentor over the pyromancer due to the prowess benefit, it hasn't performed badly at all, however my one worry is that it is too slow for a tempo deck. Last issue I had was whether or not I really need Day's Undoing in this deck, after opening 2 (1 foil) on draft night I thought it would be a lot of fun, however with the mentors it seems it might be a little more midrangey so I am just unsure =(. My initial thought is that I either have to cut the mentors or Day's Undoing, however I would much rather keep the day's. Also based off AshtonKutchers's comment from above maybe should I look to sub out goblin guide for young pyromancers? Anyways I am open to suggestions, I love hearing new ideas just be gentle
PS Thank you @ashtonkutcher for starting all of these threads and keeping different decklists organized, I may be new to the community but disorder always irks me
- Mentor is too slow. My buddy tried a Jeskai build with Mentor and ended up switching to Banana Phone because the card just doesn't come out early enough. Undoing requires a very low curve to work. Making dudes when you cast spells is really nice, though, so you probably want Pyromancer in this slot. In other words, you should just go UR.
- Guide is fine if he beats up on your meta (not many creature decks).
- Mana Leak is better as Remand or Snare, both of which are great with Undoing. Leak gets horrible after you Undo because opponents make enough land drops to pay the tax. It's still better than Hindering Light, though, which as you mentioned isn't versatile enough. If you want a Hindering Light effect, try Gods Willing or Turn Aside. The extra card doesn't matter much on an Undoing plan.
I don't understand the "inner hipster" thing - trust me, we are the only people playing this deck.
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Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
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Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Word??? That many people don't play it? I'm not gonna lie man this deck really doesn't lose to anything short of a typical burn deck catching fire, or maybe a cheap creature heavy deck (naya zoo) doing the same thing. And that is with my Jeskai deck, your RUG deck is better for sure, I've tested it on xMage and it amazing; just a lot of money atm considering I just had to pony up for my masters (-.-)
As for the "inner hipster" I don't wanna copy your deck 100%, partially because I want to feel just a little original. Although I will say most likely I will give abbot of keral keep a try for sure, and taking out goblin guide. I knew the monastery mentor was probably a little too slow, so I will be going back to yp. Also, flashfreeze to me looks like the card I will try to run 2 of in my mainboard. I have used sleight of hand before and it worked ok, but in my area flashfreeze would be dominant. Lots of decks running coco, tarmogoyf, and the ever so common burn decks. Plus always nice to have a sure answer to a lightning bolt and a 2 drop to use with disrupting shoal. AKA 100% copied lol =P
Also quick thought, what is your opinion of jace, vryn's prodigy's potential in this deck, and how you feel it will stack up to snapcaster mage in the future.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
1) As expected young pyromancer vastly outperformed monastery mentor, yp averaged 3.7 tokens, and roughly 8 damage per game(including token damage) vs monastery mentor who averaged a mere 1.3 tokens and 2.3 damage(yes he died/got countered before even a full turn in most of my games).
2) flashfreeze works better in the sideboard, although I would possibly mainboard it at my LGS.(lots of collected elves, RG tron, burn and a few azban as well) It seems like the winner for my last spot is going to be sleight of hand, it might not be a ponder but it definitely helps sort through the deck to ensure useful draws. Remand was nice, just not as nice.
3) At least in the games I played I really think goblin guide out performed abbot of keral keep. They both typically lived 2 turns, however goblin guide's damage output averaged 3.8 (doing 4 damage in every game but 1 due to a bolt) Abbot of Keral Keep averaged 1.5. While his prowess and ability are both awesome, his ability is better post turn 3 otherwise you just don't have the mana.
2-1 junk voice
2-1 UWR control
1-2 grixis Control
2-1 tarmo faeries
2-1 scapeshift
2-1 goblin
Here's my list :
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Day's Undoing
2 Snapback
2 Remand
4 Disrupting Shoal
4 Serum Visions
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Vapor Snag
4 Island
1 Mountain
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
SB: 2 Shatterstorm
SB: 3 Blood Moon
SB: 4 Dragon's Claw
SB: 2 Flashfreeze
SB: 1 Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 3 Forked Bolt
What are you thinking about? (I can't buy 4 goyfs...)
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
The list I have been playing:
4x Delver of Secrets
4x Monastery Swiftspear
4x Young Pyromancer
4x Abbot of Keral Keep
Spells - 26
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Serum Visions
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Vapor Snag
4x Disrupting Shoal
2x Remand
4x Day's Undoing
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Polluted Delta
3x Steam Vents
4x Shivan Reef
2x Island
1x Mountain
3x Forked Bolt
2x Pillar of Flame
3x Dispel
3x Snapcaster Mage
2x Hurkyl's Recall
2x Dragon's Claw
Young Pyromancer has been an underperformer, and I find that I am siding it out in a lot of matchups (URx, Affinity, Abzan, etc), and I am not sure it fits into the game we are trying to play. Like Abbot, the card really wants to be played turn 3+, but there is only so much room for those cards, and I think Abbot is better. I am going to be testing goblin guide in this slot instead.
I was really unhappy playing with Sulfur Falls, as you often need to keep one landers, and it just doesn't get the job done. The deck really wants a fastland, but alas :/
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
By "strained" I mean that this deck has pretty stringent requirements for a two colored deck. Having a basic in your opening hand feels terrible with so many one drops in both colors, it really limits how many spells you can play in a turn. I am only running 3 basics in the 2 color list, I can't imagine what a rug manabase on 18 land would look like.
If you can't imagine what a land-light RUG manabase would look like, consider checking out that Monkey Grow thread. The deck actually has tournament results, and it even runs a set of Huntmaster of the Fells and some Blood Moons in the board! Delver decks definitely push the limits of what a manabase can do, but I wouldn't call the ours "strained." It's mostly a matter of learning how to operate on one or two lands, especially when one is basic.
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Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
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Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
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Colorless Eldrazi Stompy