Thoughts on Endbringer over Oblivion Sower? Can ping player/creature, open up better attacks against other fatty decks, and be strong card advantage in grindy matches. I've been trying as a 1-of in my deck, and it's been pretty solid.
Thoughts on Endbringer over Oblivion Sower? Can ping player/creature, open up better attacks against other fatty decks, and be strong card advantage in grindy matches. I've been trying as a 1-of in my deck, and it's been pretty solid.
i'm running a single maindeck sower and you are echoing my thoughts exactly.
i found sea gate wreckage to be a big game against our weaker matchups (which at this early stage seem to be removal/counter heavy midrange/control decks, so jund, abzan, any deck running Wraths etc.)
i guess endbringer is like a sea gate wreckage on legs, with some nice upside because it can ping.
i mean really i'm sold. they are both 6 mana. they both have a nice effect. endbringer can attack and still draw cards which is great. it's versatile and might do the job.
on the other side of the coin, Oblivion Sower helps you power out bigger endless ones and can facilitate bringing in a bigger top-end out of the sideboard. with a single sower maindeck, I am less restricted by having to include a couple in the board
(i run 1 sower, 1x conduit of ruin and 1x All is Dust in the board. all proved their worth yesterday as well. Dust won me a whole match in a very close game-3)
we need to be able to bring in Ulamog, the ceaseless hunger from the board (which should be a lock in the sideboard. after seeing so much coverage of the deck, there are games upon games upon games where the players have had an active eye of ugin in a grindy board-stall and only ever been able to fetch oblivion sowers as a kind of durdly top-end. just 1x ulamog breaks those stalemates and grindy games in half).
but I can't deny, drawing cards is powerful. the 1x Sea Gate in my deck proved its worth at FNM yesterday and was singly responsible for breaking open some grindy difficult games. a 5/5 with the same effect could be fantastic.
will test.
if i was to include 1x maindeck endbringer, i'd make the following sideboard changes:
-1 conduit of ruin (so cut completely)
+1 oblivion sower (up to 2 copies)
the reason being that sower turns on eye of ugin quite effectively and we can use that to find ulamog.
also re: tier 1 promotion - is anyone else incredibly glad they traded into this deck *before* the ProTour? I was hot on these cards from the moment they were spoiled and I love the whole concept from top to bottom. it's brilliant fun and so far I've had really positive reception from other players as well.
Thanks for the FNM report! I'm going to start running a pair our grafdiggers cage in the side to help with the CoCo match ups. They are terribad.
Having the 1 ulamog in the side helps against lantern control also. As long as you can land and keep an eye on the board he well win post lock. I tried him as a 2-of, but that was too many.
I take chalice out on the draw against affinity. On the play I put it back and how it's in the opener. if it's in the opener I put it on zero and that usually slows them down really well.
I keep hearing how busted this deck is. I have played it at least 15 time and have not once. Start with more than one mimic and eye of ugin on turn one.
I don't feel that hand of three mimic with eye is gonna happen much. Roll of eyes....
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Can someone explain to me the best way to use Chalice of the Void? I've never played Modern, but bought all that's necessary to play colorless Eldrazi. I want to know how and what situations to use this card.
Can someone explain to me the best way to use Chalice of the Void? I've never played Modern, but bought all that's necessary to play colorless Eldrazi. I want to know how and what situations to use this card.
Wow. Hell of a place to start in modern, but I'll bite.
Chalice is an ideal turn 1 or 2 play to turn off your opponent's early game plan. This is to upset the quick wins from decks like burn, affinity and infect, paving the way for you to drop a couple of larger creatures and hopefully win from that.
Many decks in modern have critical turn 1 and 2 plays, one mana removal and other important cards at 1 such as serum visions.
Normally, decks in modern struggle to play chalice of the Void (which is why it didn't see play until recently) because they want to play cheap spells of their own. This deck neatly sidesteps the issue by only playing spells of 2 or more mana.
Your main aim with chalice is to drop it on turn 1, with the help of simian spirit guide, set at 1 counter. Against an unknown opponent this is the most likely number to provide a decent slow factor on what your opponent wishes to do. If you know your opponent happens to be on affinity or Living End, your plan instead is to cast chalice for zero counters.
So yeah. To reiterate, it is a roadblock for your opponent that you play as early as possible, to make them stumble a bit on their early turns while you drop a couple of threats.
Against decks like burn, chalice is almost a win condition. Haha. That's really the point of playing it.
Important; you'll often want to sideboard the chalices out in game two, especially if you are on the draw. Bring in higher impact cards, other removal or threats, or pithing needle which does a similar job but more precisely. (i.e. pithing needle naming cranial plating)
Hope that helps.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
Thanks. Helps a lot. So I don't want to play this in other Eldrazi decks that focus on Chromatic Star and such. I want to make certain I use it with a deck that needs 2 or three manna and above. And I want to make certain I have at least one Chalice of the Void, one manna and one Simian Spirit Guide in my opening hand. So, I suppose, I should mulligan if I don't?
The Eldrazi are one of the game's more intriguing tribes, after all the Phyrexian stuff. I had the good fortune to pull 2x Eldrazi Mimic from the OGW fatpack I purchased when the set was released. Is Mimic effictively the colorless member of the same cycle as Bob, Goyf, Tiago...etc?
The Eldrazi are one of the game's more intriguing tribes, after all the Phyrexian stuff. I had the good fortune to pull 2x Eldrazi Mimic from the OGW fatpack I purchased when the set was released. Is Mimic effictively the colorless member of the same cycle as Bob, Goyf, Tiago...etc?
Not at all. Mimic is our worst creature but a nessecary evil in order to maintain enough threat density. It gives the deck explosiveness and occasionally a ring of degeneracy but it's really not an archetype definer in it's own.
Assuming you always land double-Temple or Temple/Eye, I would say Thought-Knot Seer is our colourless 2 mana OP Modern rockstar :]
Thanks. Helps a lot. So I don't want to play this in other Eldrazi decks that focus on Chromatic Star and such. I want to make certain I use it with a deck that needs 2 or three manna and above. And I want to make certain I have at least one Chalice of the Void, one manna and one Simian Spirit Guide in my opening hand. So, I suppose, I should mulligan if I don't?
there's a couple of things at work which mean you don't really need to mulligan aggressively for chalice and spirit guide.
1: your Plan A, and main game plan, is to play a couple of stompy threats and ride them to victory. chalice is a nice speedbump to slow your opponent, but Magic has variance and they might have a crummy hand anyway. you should consider mulliganing towards one of the eldrazi lands (and a creature, I suppose) because that's how you win. don't ever mulligan down into a chalice in game 1 against an unknown opponent. If you have one in your hand, great. but remember the key route to victory is curving out into a bigger creature every turn so don't waste your second turn playing a chalice unless you happen to notice your opponent is on burn or infect/similar (they play a lot of 1-drops).
2: in game 2, chalice sometimes becomes very relevant. mostly against burn. You should evaluate hands based on their speed (as normal, plan A) but also consider just simply finding a chalice. no simian spirit guide needed because just dropping Chalice on 1 on turn 2 is a huge game against burn. it's a tough call and you'll need to get a feel for when to mulligan yourself.
hope that helps.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
I really like this deck. It is something Modern has not seen much of - beat down. I've never played against or with this deck, but I welcome this deck as it is another competitive option. So, that brings me to my next question. Tron is deadly because it can continue to wipe the board. Is there any way to include Pyroclasm? With Void at 0 or 1 and Pyroclasm I feel that most aggro decks will fall. Outside of this all you guys would need to do is focus on is mirror and combo decks in the SB.
Thoughts on Endbringer over Oblivion Sower? Can ping player/creature, open up better attacks against other fatty decks, and be strong card advantage in grindy matches. I've been trying as a 1-of in my deck, and it's been pretty solid.
Endbringer would be good if it had haste or did anything but beg for removal when it hits the battlefield and sits for a turn. I almost think Phyrexian Metamorph is better due to the CMC and the fact that it can duplicate a Reality Smasher or Thought-Knot Seer.
To answer all complaints from netdeckers and people who just look up and buy cards without testing or questioning if this is the deck they actually want to play: INNOVATE! Try some Sword of Fire and Ice or some Thorn of Amethysts or some Warping Wail or SOMETHING INNOVATIVE! You're not Ivan Floch! This isn't the PT! It's your LGS! Prepare for your meta!
Also, aggressively mulligan. Down to 4 if you need to.
Speaking of innovation and out of the box thinking:
Thoughts on running a onesie of: Hall of the Bandit Lord, Radiant Fountain, and Miren, the Moaning Well? I've been running a fountain and a well and they've both served me very well in more MUs than just burn. Useless vs infect, but they buy you a much needed turn against most decks.
Speaking of innovation and out of the box thinking:
Thoughts on running a onesie of: Hall of the Bandit Lord, Radiant Fountain, and Miren, the Moaning Well? I've been running a fountain and a well and they've both served me very well in more MUs than just burn. Useless vs infect, but they buy you a much needed turn against most decks.
Out of those three I think that Radiant Fountain is the best. I've used Hall of the Bandit Lord in EDH and a little bit in modern. It hurts a lot to use and really doesn't help all that much compared to other utility lands. Miren, the Moaning Well is definitely more of a gray area.
I'm thinking I might try the colorless build over the UR one. It looks like I could splash red or white for some extra utility and not lose a lot of function.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
What would you use in sideboard against ghostly prisons and ensnaring briges? I could splash green for worldbreaker and other stuff, but I'd rather stay with all the manlands and pure colorless
Of course the former can get hit by removal, Pithing Needle or, in the case of Ghostly Prison, as that's probably out of a Wx prison deck, Runed Halo, while Needle still shuts down the bomb.
Technically Lili can be an out, if you run Urborg and can afford to wait for her ult, but that's pretty loose. ^^
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Tired of losing to natural Tron or getting turn 2'd by Infect?
Standard infinite combos giving you a headache and the opponent always has Force of Will?
No matter the issue, there is one simple trick to solve all of your Magic problems!!
~~~To get in on the secret to eternal luck, skill and victory, just follow this link!!~~~
Speaking of innovation and out of the box thinking:
Thoughts on running a onesie of: Hall of the Bandit Lord, Radiant Fountain, and Miren, the Moaning Well? I've been running a fountain and a well and they've both served me very well in more MUs than just burn. Useless vs infect, but they buy you a much needed turn against most decks.
Out of those three I think that Radiant Fountain is the best. I've used Hall of the Bandit Lord in EDH and a little bit in modern. It hurts a lot to use and really doesn't help all that much compared to other utility lands. Miren, the Moaning Well is definitely more of a gray area.
I'm thinking I might try the colorless build over the UR one. It looks like I could splash red or white for some extra utility and not lose a lot of function.
I've been tooling around with a green splash build aimed at reducing this deck's TERRIBLE top deck downspiral situation that you will inevitably run into late game. I essentially took out extraneous lands for Tendo Ice Bridges and removed the not-as-good-as-you-think Simian Spirit Guides and Rachet Bombs for Ancient Stirrings and Chromatic Stars. My logic is trading this deck's TRIVIAL t2 windmill slam win for an extremely consistent build that doesn't rely on opening hands and topdecking. I'm still playtesting it, but the card advantage and digs help me sleep at night.
Speaking of innovation and out of the box thinking:
Thoughts on running a onesie of: Hall of the Bandit Lord, Radiant Fountain, and Miren, the Moaning Well? I've been running a fountain and a well and they've both served me very well in more MUs than just burn. Useless vs infect, but they buy you a much needed turn against most decks.
Out of those three I think that Radiant Fountain is the best. I've used Hall of the Bandit Lord in EDH and a little bit in modern. It hurts a lot to use and really doesn't help all that much compared to other utility lands. Miren, the Moaning Well is definitely more of a gray area.
I'm thinking I might try the colorless build over the UR one. It looks like I could splash red or white for some extra utility and not lose a lot of function.
I've been tooling around with a green splash build aimed at reducing this deck's TERRIBLE top deck downspiral situation that you will inevitably run into late game. I essentially took out extraneous lands for Tendo Ice Bridges and removed the not-as-good-as-you-think Simian Spirit Guides and Rachet Bombs for Ancient Stirrings and Chromatic Stars. My logic is trading this deck's TRIVIAL t2 windmill slam win for an extremely consistent build that doesn't rely on opening hands and topdecking. I'm still playtesting it, but the card advantage and digs help me sleep at night.
Ancient Stirrings is one of the reasons I've decided on going UGC for my non-processor eldrazi build. Technically the deck is a rainbow deck, but that's mostly because phyrexian mana + cards like Corrupted crossroads help with playing with low cost cards such as Marrow shards, and eldrazi spells.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Speaking of innovation and out of the box thinking:
Thoughts on running a onesie of: Hall of the Bandit Lord, Radiant Fountain, and Miren, the Moaning Well? I've been running a fountain and a well and they've both served me very well in more MUs than just burn. Useless vs infect, but they buy you a much needed turn against most decks.
Out of those three I think that Radiant Fountain is the best. I've used Hall of the Bandit Lord in EDH and a little bit in modern. It hurts a lot to use and really doesn't help all that much compared to other utility lands. Miren, the Moaning Well is definitely more of a gray area.
I'm thinking I might try the colorless build over the UR one. It looks like I could splash red or white for some extra utility and not lose a lot of function.
I've been tooling around with a green splash build aimed at reducing this deck's TERRIBLE top deck downspiral situation that you will inevitably run into late game. I essentially took out extraneous lands for Tendo Ice Bridges and removed the not-as-good-as-you-think Simian Spirit Guides and Rachet Bombs for Ancient Stirrings and Chromatic Stars. My logic is trading this deck's TRIVIAL t2 windmill slam win for an extremely consistent build that doesn't rely on opening hands and topdecking. I'm still playtesting it, but the card advantage and digs help me sleep at night.
Ancient Stirrings is one of the reasons I've decided on going UGC for my non-processor eldrazi build. Technically the deck is a rainbow deck, but that's mostly because phyrexian mana + cards like Corrupted crossroads help with playing with low cost cards such as Marrow shards, and eldrazi spells.
Interesting idea, but I don't know how flexible all of those colored cards will be with Ancient Stirrings. I just like cantripping away from dead hands and draws. Here's my current list that runs Ancient Stirrings:
I could be alone, but coming from G/r Tron, I highly value consistency over the possibility of a 'god-hand' because 'god-hand's come once in a blue moon and you're screwed every other time it doesn't happen. While this build may be a tic slower, it's still capable of Eldrazi Mimicx4 turn 1 and Thought-Knot Seer t2 or Reality Smasher t3. The only ability I took out, because it is really not very consistent given the percentages of each card function present within the deck, is being able to Simian Spirit GuideChalice of the Void on 1 on t1 and being able to Reality Smasher on t2. Simian Spirit Guide is a dead draw 7 times out of 10 unless you start with one AND have the lands to belt out a quick win. Amulet Bloom was more consistent when it was permitted (which is meant to be an insult towards the current <> Eldrazi build).
I'm primarily focusing on eldrazi devoid, so I got stuff like Flaying Tendrils that are devoid and can be fetched using Ancient Stirrings, as well as Slip Through Space. I'm still getting it together to try out as I'm still not certain on some card choices.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Speaking of innovation and out of the box thinking:
Thoughts on running a onesie of: Hall of the Bandit Lord, Radiant Fountain, and Miren, the Moaning Well? I've been running a fountain and a well and they've both served me very well in more MUs than just burn. Useless vs infect, but they buy you a much needed turn against most decks.
Out of those three I think that Radiant Fountain is the best. I've used Hall of the Bandit Lord in EDH and a little bit in modern. It hurts a lot to use and really doesn't help all that much compared to other utility lands. Miren, the Moaning Well is definitely more of a gray area.
I'm thinking I might try the colorless build over the UR one. It looks like I could splash red or white for some extra utility and not lose a lot of function.
I've been tooling around with a green splash build aimed at reducing this deck's TERRIBLE top deck downspiral situation that you will inevitably run into late game. I essentially took out extraneous lands for Tendo Ice Bridges and removed the not-as-good-as-you-think Simian Spirit Guides and Rachet Bombs for Ancient Stirrings and Chromatic Stars. My logic is trading this deck's TRIVIAL t2 windmill slam win for an extremely consistent build that doesn't rely on opening hands and topdecking. I'm still playtesting it, but the card advantage and digs help me sleep at night.
Ancient Stirrings is one of the reasons I've decided on going UGC for my non-processor eldrazi build. Technically the deck is a rainbow deck, but that's mostly because phyrexian mana + cards like Corrupted crossroads help with playing with low cost cards such as Marrow shards, and eldrazi spells.
Interesting idea, but I don't know how flexible all of those colored cards will be with Ancient Stirrings. I just like cantripping away from dead hands and draws. Here's my current list that runs Ancient Stirrings:
I could be alone, but coming from G/r Tron, I highly value consistency over the possibility of a 'god-hand' because 'god-hand's come once in a blue moon and you're screwed every other time it doesn't happen. While this build may be a tic slower, it's still capable of Eldrazi Mimicx4 turn 1 and Thought-Knot Seer t2 or Reality Smasher t3. The only ability I took out, because it is really not very consistent given the percentages of each card function present within the deck, is being able to Simian Spirit GuideChalice of the Void on 1 on t1 and being able to Reality Smasher on t2. Simian Spirit Guide is a dead draw 7 times out of 10 unless you start with one AND have the lands to belt out a quick win. Amulet Bloom was more consistent when it was permitted (which is meant to be an insult towards the current <> Eldrazi build).
I emboldened the specific part that I'm addressing when I quote a gentleman named Ryan Overturf: "This deck only has two kinds of hands. Nut draws, and mulligans." The consistency comes from willingness to mulligan. I've been happy, and won games, going down to 4 cards in order to get some acceleration (need 1 of the 8 accelerators).
Yes. The deck is worse than Amulet Bloom. CFB did a "What if?" Video series where they ran this deck against Amulet Bloom. The results are unsurprising and only validated the previous ban decision for Bloom, especially with everyone calling for the hammer on this deck. (Edited for strikethrough so that we steer away from current meta ban-list discussion).
I like the idea of using Ancient Stirrings, as I think it is a great card for this build. I would consider moving Chalice of the Void to the sideboard if I were you. They seem good in different MUs. Chalice is better against Aggro, and Stirrings is better for when you'd need mid-late game support/card selection before getting Eye of Ugin online.
Speaking of getting Eye of Ugin online - has anyone done this with this build? I've never gotten there.
//Break//
Still having trouble with CoCo and the UR mirror. Drowner of Hope lives up to its name, and I've found the UR MU to be about 35/65 them (I nearly always steal 1 game. Sometimes I even win). MeliraCoCo/Finks combo is just dumb and they can stall enough to get it. So I've gone up to 3 Torpor Orb in the sideboard and I'm testing 2 Grafdigger's Cage along side them to see which works better. In the 4 or so matches that I've had against either of these decks since I started running them I've drawn them exactly zero times... so there's that. I'll report back when I know more.
Overall league record of mine stands at 19-6, with 2 4-1 finishes and 1 5-0. The meta is shifting to the UR version, so I've had to do some things to try to shore up the mirror. Torpor orb was already mentioned and it shuts off most of the UR versions real power (ETB effects for a million scions). Also attempting to move Chalice of the Void to the side and running Oblivion Sower in the main (I saw this on a recent top 8 finish and thought it was a smart move) to shore up the mirror since that's about a third of the matches right now. Here's what I'm currently testing:
I'm fairly certain I may drop Grafdigger's Cage altogether is Torpor Orb becomes enough to shore up the Melira/CoCo matchup. Spatial Contortion continues to impress me and has won me 2 of those 19 league games on extra damage so far (opponents don't usually anticipate the "lightning bolt" form this deck, and I know the "surprise card" angle is inherently weak in the long run but for now its working). It has never been a dead draw since it doubles as solid early Bob/Goyf/whatever removal, and allows an even trade with an opponents oblivion Sower. I really recommend it.
Chalice I think should be moved to the side in the current meta game. I would anticipate that Eldrazi might be 20-30% of the GP field and the card isn't very good in the mirror, but maybe I'm overestimating just how many people can/are spikey enough jump ship to a new deck before March. Assuming that they do: I've moved it to the side because the surprise turn 1 Chalice against an unknown opponent I feel is worse against a real people/open meta than it is against a pro-tour meta. With the decline of Burn, Infect, and Bogles, Chalice is only winning 15% of MUs where the additional help against the mirror is certainly better with O-sower. Thoughts on this one?
Out of those three I think that Radiant Fountain is the best. I've used Hall of the Bandit Lord in EDH and a little bit in modern. It hurts a lot to use and really doesn't help all that much compared to other utility lands. Miren, the Moaning Well is definitely more of a gray area.
I'm thinking I might try the colorless build over the UR one. It looks like I could splash red or white for some extra utility and not lose a lot of function.
I've been tooling around with a green splash build aimed at reducing this deck's TERRIBLE top deck downspiral situation that you will inevitably run into late game. I essentially took out extraneous lands for Tendo Ice Bridges and removed the not-as-good-as-you-think Simian Spirit Guides and Rachet Bombs for Ancient Stirrings and Chromatic Stars. My logic is trading this deck's TRIVIAL t2 windmill slam win for an extremely consistent build that doesn't rely on opening hands and topdecking. I'm still playtesting it, but the card advantage and digs help me sleep at night.
Ancient Stirrings is one of the reasons I've decided on going UGC for my non-processor eldrazi build. Technically the deck is a rainbow deck, but that's mostly because phyrexian mana + cards like Corrupted crossroads help with playing with low cost cards such as Marrow shards, and eldrazi spells.
Interesting idea, but I don't know how flexible all of those colored cards will be with Ancient Stirrings. I just like cantripping away from dead hands and draws. Here's my current list that runs Ancient Stirrings:
I could be alone, but coming from G/r Tron, I highly value consistency over the possibility of a 'god-hand' because 'god-hand's come once in a blue moon and you're screwed every other time it doesn't happen. While this build may be a tic slower, it's still capable of Eldrazi Mimicx4 turn 1 and Thought-Knot Seer t2 or Reality Smasher t3. The only ability I took out, because it is really not very consistent given the percentages of each card function present within the deck, is being able to Simian Spirit GuideChalice of the Void on 1 on t1 and being able to Reality Smasher on t2. Simian Spirit Guide is a dead draw 7 times out of 10 unless you start with one AND have the lands to belt out a quick win. Amulet Bloom was more consistent when it was permitted (which is meant to be an insult towards the current <> Eldrazi build).
I emboldened the specific part that I'm addressing when I quote a gentleman named Ryan Overturf: "This deck only has two kinds of hands. Nut draws, and mulligans." The consistency comes from willingness to mulligan. I've been happy, and won games, going down to 4 cards in order to get some acceleration (need 1 of the 8 accelerators).
Yes. The deck is worse than Amulet Bloom. CFB did a "What if?" Video series where they ran this deck against Amulet Bloom. The results are unsurprising and only validated the previous ban decision for Bloom, especially with everyone calling for the hammer on this deck. (Edited for strikethrough so that we steer away from current meta ban-list discussion).
I like the idea of using Ancient Stirrings, as I think it is a great card for this build. I would consider moving Chalice of the Void to the sideboard if I were you. They seem good in different MUs. Chalice is better against Aggro, and Stirrings is better for when you'd need mid-late game support/card selection before getting Eye of Ugin online.
Speaking of getting Eye of Ugin online - has anyone done this with this build? I've never gotten there.
//Break//
Still having trouble with CoCo and the UR mirror. Drowner of Hope lives up to its name, and I've found the UR MU to be about 35/65 them (I nearly always steal 1 game. Sometimes I even win). MeliraCoCo/Finks combo is just dumb and they can stall enough to get it. So I've gone up to 3 Torpor Orb in the sideboard and I'm testing 2 Grafdigger's Cage along side them to see which works better. In the 4 or so matches that I've had against either of these decks since I started running them I've drawn them exactly zero times... so there's that. I'll report back when I know more.
Overall league record of mine stands at 19-6, with 2 4-1 finishes and 1 5-0. The meta is shifting to the UR version, so I've had to do some things to try to shore up the mirror. Torpor orb was already mentioned and it shuts off most of the UR versions real power (ETB effects for a million scions). Also attempting to move Chalice of the Void to the side and running Oblivion Sower in the main (I saw this on a recent top 8 finish and thought it was a smart move) to shore up the mirror since that's about a third of the matches right now. Here's what I'm currently testing:
I'm fairly certain I may drop Grafdigger's Cage altogether is Torpor Orb becomes enough to shore up the Melira/CoCo matchup. Spatial Contortion continues to impress me and has won me 2 of those 19 league games on extra damage so far (opponents don't usually anticipate the "lightning bolt" form this deck, and I know the "surprise card" angle is inherently weak in the long run but for now its working). It has never been a dead draw since it doubles as solid early Bob/Goyf/whatever removal, and allows an even trade with an opponents oblivion Sower. I really recommend it.
Chalice I think should be moved to the side in the current meta game. I would anticipate that Eldrazi might be 20-30% of the GP field and the card isn't very good in the mirror, but maybe I'm overestimating just how many people can/are spikey enough jump ship to a new deck before March. Assuming that they do: I've moved it to the side because the surprise turn 1 Chalice against an unknown opponent I feel is worse against a real people/open meta than it is against a pro-tour meta. With the decline of Burn, Infect, and Bogles, Chalice is only winning 15% of MUs where the additional help against the mirror is certainly better with O-sower. Thoughts on this one?
The fact of the matter is that you're looking primarily for 8 lands in your deck to show up in your opening hand. The creature percentages remain high enough that it is a given that you'll also draw a curve-appropriate hand almost every time, so the real limiting reagent on good hands here is how many Eldrazi Temples and Eye of Ugins are there. Since this deck has 8 'combo' lands compared to something like tron, which has 12 'combo' lands, the likelihood of drawing a good hand is significantly worse. This deck already does poorly with less cards in your starting hand and zero card advantage, so you're setting yourself for failure by not including any way to dig or tutor for your 'combo' lands (or even your creatures). The great part about including 4 Chromatic Stars and 4 Ancient Stirrings is that neither of them interfere with the original beat down game plan. They're both extraneous and they are both exactly what the deck needs to be more consistent. The Tendo Ice Bridges and Chromatic Stars also soften the Dismember cmc AND they open me up to any SB colors. I'm revamping my SB to include stuff to swap Ancient Stirrings out for (like Nature's Claim and friends).
Maybe that's just my inner deck builder there, but I've been playtesting and 9/10 Chromatic Star gets things moving and Ancient Stirrings remains relevant even after t5.
Anyway, I suggest running Grafdigger's Cage in your SB over/with Torpor Orb because Grafdigger's Cage puts a foot down on Grishoalbrand decks as well as CoCo/Pod decks. Maybe you don't run into many Grishoalbrand decks, but they're a nightmare for Eldrazi. You could always Surgical Extraction their Kitchen Finks/Murderous Redcap. Surgical Extraction is fantastic in storm/delver/podless pod/grishoalbrand and can dump on infect in the right circumstances.
I like Chalice of the Void, but agree it should be in the SB only because I got burned the other night by being on the play against affinity and I didn't know to drop Chalice of the Void for 0 (because I didn't know what he was playing until I passed the turn to him dumping his hand). I'm fiercely considering Apostle's Blessing to replace it. Seems like the spiciest option atm.
Not to be argumentative, but just to illustrate the fallacy in comparing this deck to Tron - particularly when it comes to the 'combo lands'. We only need 1 of any of those 8 lands to have an explosive draw. Any more than that and its more like icing to a deadly cake. Tron needs 1/4 of 3 different lands. My math is a bit rusty (help me, ktkenshinks kenobi - you're my only hope...), but I know that statistically getting 1 of those 8 is much higher than getting Tron assembled. The Colorless Eldrazi version does best when explosive and effectively winning prior to the opponent stabilizing because it works ahead of the curve. I've been playing an eldrazi deck in one form or another for months now, and I can say this for certain: If I ended up spending turns trying to assemble "Eldrazi Tron," I was most likely losing that game... And I should just be playing Tron because it does it better. The reason this deck seems to work, for me, is that it just needs a little extra gas. A turn ahead is still really hard to deal with these critters that are already pushing the power level of their 'natural' place on the curve.
I don't disagree that Ancient Stirrings is good, and I'll certainly be looking at how to put it in there. The main point I'm trying to make is that the deck doesn't play like Tron. Tron is a Combo deck. This is a beatdown/aggro deck. Trying to make this play more like a combo deck will just make it a different deck, which isn't a bad thing, its just very a different conversation.
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
For more on the metagame update, please read the post in the metagame thread here:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/566735-modern-metagame-discussion-thread-updated-1-15?comment=1026
i'm running a single maindeck sower and you are echoing my thoughts exactly.
i found sea gate wreckage to be a big game against our weaker matchups (which at this early stage seem to be removal/counter heavy midrange/control decks, so jund, abzan, any deck running Wraths etc.)
i guess endbringer is like a sea gate wreckage on legs, with some nice upside because it can ping.
i mean really i'm sold. they are both 6 mana. they both have a nice effect. endbringer can attack and still draw cards which is great. it's versatile and might do the job.
on the other side of the coin, Oblivion Sower helps you power out bigger endless ones and can facilitate bringing in a bigger top-end out of the sideboard. with a single sower maindeck, I am less restricted by having to include a couple in the board
(i run 1 sower, 1x conduit of ruin and 1x All is Dust in the board. all proved their worth yesterday as well. Dust won me a whole match in a very close game-3)
we need to be able to bring in Ulamog, the ceaseless hunger from the board (which should be a lock in the sideboard. after seeing so much coverage of the deck, there are games upon games upon games where the players have had an active eye of ugin in a grindy board-stall and only ever been able to fetch oblivion sowers as a kind of durdly top-end. just 1x ulamog breaks those stalemates and grindy games in half).
but I can't deny, drawing cards is powerful. the 1x Sea Gate in my deck proved its worth at FNM yesterday and was singly responsible for breaking open some grindy difficult games. a 5/5 with the same effect could be fantastic.
will test.
if i was to include 1x maindeck endbringer, i'd make the following sideboard changes:
-1 conduit of ruin (so cut completely)
+1 oblivion sower (up to 2 copies)
the reason being that sower turns on eye of ugin quite effectively and we can use that to find ulamog.
also re: tier 1 promotion - is anyone else incredibly glad they traded into this deck *before* the ProTour? I was hot on these cards from the moment they were spoiled and I love the whole concept from top to bottom. it's brilliant fun and so far I've had really positive reception from other players as well.
Having the 1 ulamog in the side helps against lantern control also. As long as you can land and keep an eye on the board he well win post lock. I tried him as a 2-of, but that was too many.
I take chalice out on the draw against affinity. On the play I put it back and how it's in the opener. if it's in the opener I put it on zero and that usually slows them down really well.
Modern: Bogles // 8-Whack/Goblins // UW Titan // Hollow One // Affinity // Dredge
EDH: Nissa, Vastwood Seer // Atraxa, Praetor's Voice // Meren of Clan Nel Toth
I don't feel that hand of three mimic with eye is gonna happen much. Roll of eyes....
To many cry baby's
~Modern~
BGURWhiteless Death's ShadowRUGB
GWRUSaheeli BlinkURWG
RGBUGood Ole' DredgeUBGR
~Commander~
URWNarset, Enlightened Time-TravelerWRU
UBRWBreya, Etherium ArchitectWRBU
A Prolific Loser To Blood Moon
http://modernnexus.com/smells-like-burnt-tentacles-eldrazi-stompy-mini-primer/
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Wow. Hell of a place to start in modern, but I'll bite.
Chalice is an ideal turn 1 or 2 play to turn off your opponent's early game plan. This is to upset the quick wins from decks like burn, affinity and infect, paving the way for you to drop a couple of larger creatures and hopefully win from that.
Many decks in modern have critical turn 1 and 2 plays, one mana removal and other important cards at 1 such as serum visions.
Normally, decks in modern struggle to play chalice of the Void (which is why it didn't see play until recently) because they want to play cheap spells of their own. This deck neatly sidesteps the issue by only playing spells of 2 or more mana.
Your main aim with chalice is to drop it on turn 1, with the help of simian spirit guide, set at 1 counter. Against an unknown opponent this is the most likely number to provide a decent slow factor on what your opponent wishes to do. If you know your opponent happens to be on affinity or Living End, your plan instead is to cast chalice for zero counters.
So yeah. To reiterate, it is a roadblock for your opponent that you play as early as possible, to make them stumble a bit on their early turns while you drop a couple of threats.
Against decks like burn, chalice is almost a win condition. Haha. That's really the point of playing it.
Important; you'll often want to sideboard the chalices out in game two, especially if you are on the draw. Bring in higher impact cards, other removal or threats, or pithing needle which does a similar job but more precisely. (i.e. pithing needle naming cranial plating)
Hope that helps.
Why no Warping Wail?
Not at all. Mimic is our worst creature but a nessecary evil in order to maintain enough threat density. It gives the deck explosiveness and occasionally a ring of degeneracy but it's really not an archetype definer in it's own.
Assuming you always land double-Temple or Temple/Eye, I would say Thought-Knot Seer is our colourless 2 mana OP Modern rockstar :]
Modern: Eldrazi CB,
there's a couple of things at work which mean you don't really need to mulligan aggressively for chalice and spirit guide.
1: your Plan A, and main game plan, is to play a couple of stompy threats and ride them to victory. chalice is a nice speedbump to slow your opponent, but Magic has variance and they might have a crummy hand anyway. you should consider mulliganing towards one of the eldrazi lands (and a creature, I suppose) because that's how you win. don't ever mulligan down into a chalice in game 1 against an unknown opponent. If you have one in your hand, great. but remember the key route to victory is curving out into a bigger creature every turn so don't waste your second turn playing a chalice unless you happen to notice your opponent is on burn or infect/similar (they play a lot of 1-drops).
2: in game 2, chalice sometimes becomes very relevant. mostly against burn. You should evaluate hands based on their speed (as normal, plan A) but also consider just simply finding a chalice. no simian spirit guide needed because just dropping Chalice on 1 on turn 2 is a huge game against burn. it's a tough call and you'll need to get a feel for when to mulligan yourself.
hope that helps.
YOUTUBE CHANNEL: GOBOTS
Endbringer would be good if it had haste or did anything but beg for removal when it hits the battlefield and sits for a turn. I almost think Phyrexian Metamorph is better due to the CMC and the fact that it can duplicate a Reality Smasher or Thought-Knot Seer.
The legacy list runs 4 Thorn of Amethyst alongside 4 Chalice of the Void. It's not nearly as good, but it's better than Trinisphere IMO.
____
To answer all complaints from netdeckers and people who just look up and buy cards without testing or questioning if this is the deck they actually want to play: INNOVATE! Try some Sword of Fire and Ice or some Thorn of Amethysts or some Warping Wail or SOMETHING INNOVATIVE! You're not Ivan Floch! This isn't the PT! It's your LGS! Prepare for your meta!
Also, aggressively mulligan. Down to 4 if you need to.
Thoughts on running a onesie of: Hall of the Bandit Lord, Radiant Fountain, and Miren, the Moaning Well? I've been running a fountain and a well and they've both served me very well in more MUs than just burn. Useless vs infect, but they buy you a much needed turn against most decks.
Out of those three I think that Radiant Fountain is the best. I've used Hall of the Bandit Lord in EDH and a little bit in modern. It hurts a lot to use and really doesn't help all that much compared to other utility lands. Miren, the Moaning Well is definitely more of a gray area.
I'm thinking I might try the colorless build over the UR one. It looks like I could splash red or white for some extra utility and not lose a lot of function.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Endbringer can ping through those and Ratchet Bomb can clear them eventually.
Of course the former can get hit by removal, Pithing Needle or, in the case of Ghostly Prison, as that's probably out of a Wx prison deck, Runed Halo, while Needle still shuts down the bomb.
Technically Lili can be an out, if you run Urborg and can afford to wait for her ult, but that's pretty loose. ^^
Standard infinite combos giving you a headache and the opponent always has Force of Will?
No matter the issue, there is one simple trick to solve all of your Magic problems!!
~~~To get in on the secret to eternal luck, skill and victory, just follow this link!!~~~
Yeah, if only Hall of the Bandit Lord came in untapped :<
I've been tooling around with a green splash build aimed at reducing this deck's TERRIBLE top deck downspiral situation that you will inevitably run into late game. I essentially took out extraneous lands for Tendo Ice Bridges and removed the not-as-good-as-you-think Simian Spirit Guides and Rachet Bombs for Ancient Stirrings and Chromatic Stars. My logic is trading this deck's TRIVIAL t2 windmill slam win for an extremely consistent build that doesn't rely on opening hands and topdecking. I'm still playtesting it, but the card advantage and digs help me sleep at night.
Ancient Stirrings is one of the reasons I've decided on going UGC for my non-processor eldrazi build. Technically the deck is a rainbow deck, but that's mostly because phyrexian mana + cards like Corrupted crossroads help with playing with low cost cards such as Marrow shards, and eldrazi spells.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Interesting idea, but I don't know how flexible all of those colored cards will be with Ancient Stirrings. I just like cantripping away from dead hands and draws. Here's my current list that runs Ancient Stirrings:
4 thought-knot seer
4 eldrazi mimic
4 reality smasher
4 endless one
4 chromatic star
4 chalice of the void
1 crucible of worlds
4 ancient stirrings
4 eldrazi temple
4 ghost quarter
4 blinkmoth nexus
3 eye of ugin
3 tendo ice bridge
2 cavern of souls
2 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
1 wastes
4 gut shot
3 relic of progenitus
2 spellskite
2 pithing needle
2 oblivion sower
2 ratchet bomb
I could be alone, but coming from G/r Tron, I highly value consistency over the possibility of a 'god-hand' because 'god-hand's come once in a blue moon and you're screwed every other time it doesn't happen. While this build may be a tic slower, it's still capable of Eldrazi Mimicx4 turn 1 and Thought-Knot Seer t2 or Reality Smasher t3. The only ability I took out, because it is really not very consistent given the percentages of each card function present within the deck, is being able to Simian Spirit Guide Chalice of the Void on 1 on t1 and being able to Reality Smasher on t2. Simian Spirit Guide is a dead draw 7 times out of 10 unless you start with one AND have the lands to belt out a quick win. Amulet Bloom was more consistent when it was permitted (which is meant to be an insult towards the current <> Eldrazi build).
On a different note, you may have noticed the onsie of Crucible of Worlds. Everyone and their grandmother uses Ghost Quarter or Tectonic Edge to blow lands up. I don't see too many Crumble to Dusts, Sowing Salts, or Surgical Extractions at my LGS, but I see a ton of Ghost Quarters and even a number of SB Crucible of Worlds/Life from the Loam tech for loopy land destruction. My logic is why not do the same thing? I'm already running 4 Ghost Quarters AND it blanks my opponent's Ghost Quarters. I'm even considering dropping Blinkmoth Nexus for 4 Tectonic Edges just to land destruction my opponents out of their win. Thoughts?
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I emboldened the specific part that I'm addressing when I quote a gentleman named Ryan Overturf: "This deck only has two kinds of hands. Nut draws, and mulligans." The consistency comes from willingness to mulligan. I've been happy, and won games, going down to 4 cards in order to get some acceleration (need 1 of the 8 accelerators).
Yes. The deck is worse than Amulet Bloom. CFB did a "What if?" Video series where they ran this deck against Amulet Bloom. The results are unsurprising and only validated the previous ban decision for Bloom
, especially with everyone calling for the hammer on this deck. (Edited for strikethrough so that we steer away from current meta ban-list discussion).I like the idea of using Ancient Stirrings, as I think it is a great card for this build. I would consider moving Chalice of the Void to the sideboard if I were you. They seem good in different MUs. Chalice is better against Aggro, and Stirrings is better for when you'd need mid-late game support/card selection before getting Eye of Ugin online.
Speaking of getting Eye of Ugin online - has anyone done this with this build? I've never gotten there.
//Break//
Still having trouble with CoCo and the UR mirror. Drowner of Hope lives up to its name, and I've found the UR MU to be about 35/65 them (I nearly always steal 1 game. Sometimes I even win). Melira CoCo/Finks combo is just dumb and they can stall enough to get it. So I've gone up to 3 Torpor Orb in the sideboard and I'm testing 2 Grafdigger's Cage along side them to see which works better. In the 4 or so matches that I've had against either of these decks since I started running them I've drawn them exactly zero times... so there's that. I'll report back when I know more.
Overall league record of mine stands at 19-6, with 2 4-1 finishes and 1 5-0. The meta is shifting to the UR version, so I've had to do some things to try to shore up the mirror. Torpor orb was already mentioned and it shuts off most of the UR versions real power (ETB effects for a million scions). Also attempting to move Chalice of the Void to the side and running Oblivion Sower in the main (I saw this on a recent top 8 finish and thought it was a smart move) to shore up the mirror since that's about a third of the matches right now. Here's what I'm currently testing:
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Oblivion Sower
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
1 Spellskite
4 Matter Reshaper
3 Dismember
2 Spatial Contortion
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Wastes
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Eye of Ugin
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Relic of Progenitus
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Spellskite
3 Torpor Orb
I'm fairly certain I may drop Grafdigger's Cage altogether is Torpor Orb becomes enough to shore up the Melira/CoCo matchup. Spatial Contortion continues to impress me and has won me 2 of those 19 league games on extra damage so far (opponents don't usually anticipate the "lightning bolt" form this deck, and I know the "surprise card" angle is inherently weak in the long run but for now its working). It has never been a dead draw since it doubles as solid early Bob/Goyf/whatever removal, and allows an even trade with an opponents oblivion Sower. I really recommend it.
Chalice I think should be moved to the side in the current meta game. I would anticipate that Eldrazi might be 20-30% of the GP field and the card isn't very good in the mirror, but maybe I'm overestimating just how many people can/are spikey enough jump ship to a new deck before March. Assuming that they do: I've moved it to the side because the surprise turn 1 Chalice against an unknown opponent I feel is worse against a real people/open meta than it is against a pro-tour meta. With the decline of Burn, Infect, and Bogles, Chalice is only winning 15% of MUs where the additional help against the mirror is certainly better with O-sower. Thoughts on this one?
Modern: Bogles // 8-Whack/Goblins // UW Titan // Hollow One // Affinity // Dredge
EDH: Nissa, Vastwood Seer // Atraxa, Praetor's Voice // Meren of Clan Nel Toth
The fact of the matter is that you're looking primarily for 8 lands in your deck to show up in your opening hand. The creature percentages remain high enough that it is a given that you'll also draw a curve-appropriate hand almost every time, so the real limiting reagent on good hands here is how many Eldrazi Temples and Eye of Ugins are there. Since this deck has 8 'combo' lands compared to something like tron, which has 12 'combo' lands, the likelihood of drawing a good hand is significantly worse. This deck already does poorly with less cards in your starting hand and zero card advantage, so you're setting yourself for failure by not including any way to dig or tutor for your 'combo' lands (or even your creatures). The great part about including 4 Chromatic Stars and 4 Ancient Stirrings is that neither of them interfere with the original beat down game plan. They're both extraneous and they are both exactly what the deck needs to be more consistent. The Tendo Ice Bridges and Chromatic Stars also soften the Dismember cmc AND they open me up to any SB colors. I'm revamping my SB to include stuff to swap Ancient Stirrings out for (like Nature's Claim and friends).
Maybe that's just my inner deck builder there, but I've been playtesting and 9/10 Chromatic Star gets things moving and Ancient Stirrings remains relevant even after t5.
I'm considering dropping the Chalice of the Voids into my SB and adding in Thorn of Amethysts or some more target removal. Access to a few colors tempts me with Engineered Explosives and Abrupt Decay.
Anyway, I suggest running Grafdigger's Cage in your SB over/with Torpor Orb because Grafdigger's Cage puts a foot down on Grishoalbrand decks as well as CoCo/Pod decks. Maybe you don't run into many Grishoalbrand decks, but they're a nightmare for Eldrazi. You could always Surgical Extraction their Kitchen Finks/Murderous Redcap. Surgical Extraction is fantastic in storm/delver/podless pod/grishoalbrand and can dump on infect in the right circumstances.
I like Chalice of the Void, but agree it should be in the SB only because I got burned the other night by being on the play against affinity and I didn't know to drop Chalice of the Void for 0 (because I didn't know what he was playing until I passed the turn to him dumping his hand). I'm fiercely considering Apostle's Blessing to replace it. Seems like the spiciest option atm.
I don't disagree that Ancient Stirrings is good, and I'll certainly be looking at how to put it in there. The main point I'm trying to make is that the deck doesn't play like Tron. Tron is a Combo deck. This is a beatdown/aggro deck. Trying to make this play more like a combo deck will just make it a different deck, which isn't a bad thing, its just very a different conversation.
Modern: Bogles // 8-Whack/Goblins // UW Titan // Hollow One // Affinity // Dredge
EDH: Nissa, Vastwood Seer // Atraxa, Praetor's Voice // Meren of Clan Nel Toth