So Traverse the Ulvenwald was spoiled and tingled the brewer in me and apparently many other mages, as I have seen quite a lot of opinions and possible deck ideas for the card being posted in the Spoiler Discussion Thread but a more in depth discussion hasn't really happened there and that's why I made this thread.
Some of the most important questions would be:
How hard is it to get Delirium online and what are the best enablers?
How early can (and should, as in how hard should we warp our deck around the card) we be able to turn it on? (It would be really nice if somebody could get some testing done on this as I'm sadly not able do that myself currently)
What (kind of) creatures and/or lands do we actually want to tutor for?
What's the best colour combination to abuse this card?
What kind of strategy do the answers of all these questions lead us to?
I'll start with some of my own opinions:
If we decide to play mediocre cards like Mishra's Bauble, Goblin Tarfire or Nameless Inversion, the pay off should be really big (like 'combo-kill-big' at best but not just 'oh-let-me-search-for-that-Snappy-so-I-can-bolt-your-creature-big', nice as an option but not enough) and we should profit from these mediocre cards in some other way too. Tarmogoyf comes to mind obviously, but other cards like Delver or some Prowess guys seem to have room to explore too.
Another interesting option would be to leave all these 'cute' enablers at home and really on the good old 'creature, land, sorcery, instant' and play 'must kill creatures' like Dark Confidant or Young Pyromancer. If they eat removal (like they usually do) that's ok as you got your creature card in the grave. If they don't die...even better because they'll run away with the game!
When it comes to what creatures to tutor for, the first ones I can think about are all the awesome white (or green white) hatebears: Kataki, War's Wage, Ethersworn Canonist, Qasali Pridemage, Gaddock Teeg, Kor Firewalker, just to name a few really strong sideboard bullets.
But besides those bullets, white doesn't offer much for us I think...
What are your ideas for Traverse the Ulvenwald?
Do you maybe already have a decklist your playtesting?
Let's put our creativity together and break this awesome card!
*Edit*
I just checked that SCDs about spoiled cards that aren't legal yet are not allowed. Sorry about this.
Maybe a mod can move this thread to the Deck Creation Forums?
Thread merged with the other Traverse the Ulvenwald thread in Deck Creation
- Torpf
So my thoughts for this card are that the key to making it useful is to play creatures with multiple card types, supported by a few spells of various types. Most of these card types trigger prowess so that makes red a natural second color. I'm not sure what if anything makes for a good third color since there's not many good prowess cards yet.
Needs more toolbox if you're running Traverse. We're not even talking a lot of toolbox here. Just 3-4 bullets tops would rock; the payoff is in both being able to flood the board with Goyfs and get Witness value, but also to get answers when you need them. I'm partial to Magus of the Moon, which can surprise opponents with an auto-win, Spellskite, Scavenging Ooze, and maybe Fulminator Mage. Just spitballing here, but if history is any indication, Traverse really needs a toolbox to maximize its strengths. It's "good" with Goyf and Witness spam. It's great with a toolbox on top of that flood.
My thoughts on it are that all you're really looking for from Traverse early game is shuffle effects, later in the game there's not really a hate card you want (though that's a sideboard option), instead just getting value creatures is good enough. Use Traverse to get an Eternal Witness, return Traverse, and repeat. That's usually good enough to win games, or when you want to close go get a Goyf.
I do like the Pyromancer take, perhaps in a RUG Delver shell, you may have stumbled on the best deck for it with this suggestion. You can use it as another card to flip Delver early while turning it into a threat late that even plays well with Snap and Pyro. In that sense, alongside Snap you can treat it as having another 8 goyfs in your deck that trigger Delver. It does wonders for the decks threat density.
@Ashton_Kutcher's last article on Modern Nexus might give you a couple of ideas about how to build around Traverse, as he's trying to du just that himself!
As for me, I can echo what ktkenshinx just said. And if you go Toolbox, and running Courser (a good staller), I could see you going deeper and running a couple of Chords to maximize that *toolbox* aspect. So Kiki-Chord might be another source where you can draw inspiration from.
Keep it up, card is OBVIOUSLY great
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@Ashton_Kutcher's last article on Modern Nexus might give you a couple of ideas about how to build around Traverse, as he's trying to du just that himself!
As for me, I can echo what ktkenshinx just said. And if you go Toolbox, and running Courser (a good staller), I could see you going deeper and running a couple of Chords to maximize that *toolbox* aspect. So Kiki-Chord might be another source where you can draw inspiration from.
Look at the card. Now back to Jace. Now back to that card, now back to Jace! Sadly, it isn't Jace, but if it stopped being a junk rare and became relevant, it could act like it's Jace. Crack some Worldwake. What do you have? You have a Jace, the card you wish this card could be like. Look again. THE CARD IS NOW A $75 BILL. Anything possible when you play Magic with Jace and not junk rares. This is probably spam.
Needs more toolbox if you're running Traverse. We're not even talking a lot of toolbox here. Just 3-4 bullets tops would rock; the payoff is in both being able to flood the board with Goyfs and get Witness value, but also to get answers when you need them. I'm partial to Magus of the Moon, which can surprise opponents with an auto-win, Spellskite, Scavenging Ooze, and maybe Fulminator Mage. Just spitballing here, but if history is any indication, Traverse really needs a toolbox to maximize its strengths. It's "good" with Goyf and Witness spam. It's great with a toolbox on top of that flood.
I was thinking of leaving the toolbox to the SB and just trying to play a value based game 1. My main reason for this is that I think the toolbox aspect comes online too slowly. In the best case scenario Delirium probably isn't coming online until turn 4.
Another thought, is the idea posted on the Index page, going for a RUG Delver build where you just shoot for land/creature/instant/sorcery and use this as an early game Delver flipper that late game turns into another threat. It would pair real well with Young Pyromancer in such a scenario and over 2 turns you could even go Traverse, Goyf, Snapcaster/Traverse, Goyf. Seems powerful, probably coming in over a few counterspells since higher threat density means you don't need to protect as many creatures.
@Ashton_Kutcher's last article on Modern Nexus might give you a couple of ideas about how to build around Traverse, as he's trying to du just that himself!
As for me, I can echo what ktkenshinx just said. And if you go Toolbox, and running Courser (a good staller), I could see you going deeper and running a couple of Chords to maximize that *toolbox* aspect. So Kiki-Chord might be another source where you can draw inspiration from.
I was thinking of leaving the toolbox to the SB and just trying to play a value based game 1. My main reason for this is that I think the toolbox aspect comes online too slowly. In the best case scenario Delirium probably isn't coming online until turn 4.
I don't think we should go all-in on the toolbox idea. But 2-3 bullets are exactly what we want in game one. Elves does the same with Chord (see stuff like Ooze and Spellskite). GSZ Zoo decks also did that in Modern's early history, and efficient toolboxing was a major reason Pod was bannably good. The key with Traverse is that you're playing 5/6 (or bigger) Goyfs alongside your toolbox, so you have a dumb beatdown Plan A and a toolbox Plan B.
I don't think we should go all-in on the toolbox idea. But 2-3 bullets are exactly what we want in game one. Elves does the same with Chord (see stuff like Ooze and Spellskite). GSZ Zoo decks also did that in Modern's early history, and efficient toolboxing was a major reason Pod was bannably good. The key with Traverse is that you're playing 5/6 (or bigger) Goyfs alongside your toolbox, so you have a dumb beatdown Plan A and a toolbox Plan B.
That's fair. Spellskite is definitely an include in that case since he hits Artifact+Creature.
If you've paid enough attention to the SOI spoiler thread where I try to break 2 cards with Delirium, you'd have noticed that, given a BGx Midrange-like shell (1 self-mill, 4 planeswalkers) and a Goyf Twin-like shell (1 Spellskite, 3 self-mill, no planeswalkers), I didn't get Delirium on reliably until around Turn 8 on average. Traverse the Ulvenwald into Snapcaster Mage into another Traverse did feel pretty good, though (enough to leave Tiago in the deck).
Thus, for me to reliably get Turn 3-4 Delirium, I definitely need another, faster shell--maybe a Dredge-like or Prowess-like shell can fuel me fast enough.
As I said in the other thread, I think this deck has potential to become very good, even Tier 1 one day. It has many little synergies and can achieve Delirium T1 if necessary (more practically, T2 since that is when you can start casting your Traverses). It has a Soratami chain into lock, HUGE Goyfs (6/7), Snap loops, and a Krasis-Kiki combo which doesn't take much space. It also has other key utility creatures thaht hose some decks and protect your dudes (Spellskite) and value critters. Finally, you can fetch specific lands that help in the correct matchups (Lighthouse amd Falls). The SB also has many silver bullets to straight up murder some other archetypes.
My thoughts on it are that all you're really looking for from Traverse early game is shuffle effects, later in the game there's not really a hate card you want (though that's a sideboard option), instead just getting value creatures is good enough. Use Traverse to get an Eternal Witness, return Traverse, and repeat. That's usually good enough to win games, or when you want to close go get a Goyf.
I do like the Pyromancer take, perhaps in a RUG Delver shell, you may have stumbled on the best deck for it with this suggestion. You can use it as another card to flip Delver early while turning it into a threat late that even plays well with Snap and Pyro. In that sense, alongside Snap you can treat it as having another 8 goyfs in your deck that trigger Delver. It does wonders for the decks threat density.
A RUG Delver shell is also the Idea if been thinking about the most actually, thanks for pointing that out!
Traverse non delirium mode is actually of good use here, as we can go lower on land drops with it (which is exactly what delver wants).
Also you can fit in some numbers of Mishra's Bauble (grows Goyf and helps to flip Delver->look at your top card with it, decide how to stack it's draw or Delver's trigger on your upkeep) or Tarfire (as Bolt number 5 or even 6) in that deck anyway.
But I think not running at least 1-2 bullets in the main is a mistake. Cards like Scavening Ooze see mainboard play anyway and cards like Magus of the Moon or even Spellskite can be devastating in the right meta.
Right now I'm thinking about testing something like this:
Omg first person who shares my opinion on the card.
It could be ok in the gr ramp decks but I don't get the draw for people playing it in these midrange decks. Maybe in like some sort of utility creature deck where it let's you search up bullets but I dunno
I'm think.though maybe in modern it could help Kiki chord or abzan company.
If you've paid enough attention to the SOI spoiler thread where I try to break 2 cards with Delirium, you'd have noticed that, given a BGx Midrange-like shell (1 self-mill, 4 planeswalkers) and a Goyf Twin-like shell (1 Spellskite, 3 self-mill, no planeswalkers), I didn't get Delirium on reliably until around Turn 8 on average. Traverse the Ulvenwald into Snapcaster Mage into another Traverse did feel pretty good, though (enough to leave Tiago in the deck).
Thus, for me to reliably get Turn 3-4 Delirium, I definitely need another, faster shell--maybe a Dredge-like or Prowess-like shell can fuel me fast enough.
I haven't run into that with my testing. You don't want to race to turn it on, rather just play your deck and turn it on naturally. It doesn't work in the face of GY hate but otherwise it does. The Delver shell fills the GY rather quickly and the more midrange shell I came up with does the same thing but slower. The thing with going for a mill strategy to fill the GY quickly is that you have a high chance of milling the card you want to tutor. That's why I don't like the silver bullet idea here, it turns on around turn 3-4 and the card doesn't get you your answer until 4-5 which is too slow for hate. It's better to just shoot for tutoring a value play.
A RUG Delver shell is also the Idea if been thinking about the most actually, thanks for pointing that out!
Traverse non delirium mode is actually of good use here, as we can go lower on land drops with it (which is exactly what delver wants).
But I think not running at least 1-2 bullets in the main is a mistake. Cards like Scavening Ooze see mainboard play anyway and cards like Magus of the Moon or even Spellskite can be devastating in the right meta.
Magus and Spellskite seem good, Scavenging Ooze seems less good since the deck usually doesn't have much green mana. I like that an early Traverse can even help to disguise the play of a flashbacked or second copy getting Magus while setting up your basics. My initial thought is something like this, I might be trimming too many lands for Traverse, but the plan is to use them for lands early anyways.
If you made a deck using artifact creature and enchantment creatures and the like you could get delirium online very quickly.
That's what I tried initially. It works well enough but the creature options are pretty limited. Red is the best support color for Delirium but W/B offers the best type creature outside of green with Tidehollow Sculler.
Omg first person who shares my opinion on the card.
It could be ok in the gr ramp decks but I don't get the draw for people playing it in these midrange decks. Maybe in like some sort of utility creature deck where it let's you search up bullets but I dunno
I'm think.though maybe in modern it could help Kiki chord or abzan company.
Exactly this. I see this mostly as card for GRx ramp decks but I would never play this in a midrange deck like Jund or Abzan. In these decks it's always better to draw a creature itself than searching it by a tutor, plus it can't tutor for removal, Liliana or a discard. In this kind of deck you don't want a tutor but just the most efficient threats and removal.
I completely share the opinion that Traverse doesn't fit in the traditional Jund or Abzan midrange lists. They really don't get enough out of tutoring for creatures and usually play 24+ lands so using it to smooth out your land draws is less likely too.
But the 'typical-silver-bullet-creature-decks' are way to bad at enabling Delirium consistently, so they don't fit neither. And I'm also not aware of any GR ramp deck that's good at enabling Delirium and wants to search for creatures as finishers.
I don't think Traverse the Ulvenwald fits any already existing (or let's say Tiered) shell perfectly (closest being RUG Delver by now) but it has the potential to create a nice new deck as it is a huge consistency enabler and seems actually less restrictive in deck building than cards like Collected Company.
In a BUG shell for example you can search for Snappy, E-Wit, Vendillion Clique or maybe even Shriekmaw if you need removal or discard, or Scooze for gravehate or Goyf to close out the game, Kalitas or Thragtusk (probably after SB) if you need to win the value game...all of these creatures (besides Shriekmaw) see play in Modern anyway and I'd call most of them staples actually. Having basically 5 (or even more) copies of them MB seems good enough to make a viable modern deck if you ask me.
Don't forget about the artifact creatures and such you can cycle inexpensively if you're really all in on getting Delirium ASAP.
Architects of Will and Glassdust Hulk are indeed cards to keep in mind if you wanna get delirium on ASAP.
But I think usually Mishra's Bauble and Tarfire will be better because of synergies with other cards (Delver, Prowess) and you don't need really need Delirium on turn 2, but turn 3 or 4 usually (as you also need enough mana to actually play the creature you tutored).
A toolbox approach seemes indeed very interesting with traverse!
I just ordered a playset for 5 bucks so if it doesn't work i'm just gonna make it a casual brew.
This is my approach. Kiki combo may seem a little bit awkward at first, but i guess nobody will expect it game one unless it's already to late. All silverbullets have been movend to the sb to bring them in for the combo. You could even play the aggro game after game one with cards like Autumnal Bloom and Moldgraf Scavenger if you are lucky enough to own goyf's
Edit: Updated my list and also added a potential sideboard.
-1 Snappy
-4 Serum Visions
+2 Sleight of Hand
+2 Deceiver Exarch
+1 Simic Charm
Why 2x Sleight of Hand but no Serum Visions?
And don't you think Tarfire and Bauble are enough to get Delirium on consistently? Faithless Looting seems overkill (and card disadvantage is baaaaaad:D)
Oh and I like your SB, Vexing Shusher and Izzet Staticaster are interesting cards with I hadn't thought about yet.
Any more opinions on Nameless Inversion? I know OP mentioned Tarfire/Nameless Inversion as being rather mediocre but I think I might feel more positively toward Inversion (though I'll admit Tarfire is just 2/3 of a Bolt).
DB is often used to kill the same "small things" that LB/NI could. (Sure DB is clutch when it kills a PrimeTime, but NI kills Bob.)
LB can dome-3, which DB can't ever do, but NI sort-of-can if you count using it as a pump spell.
The way I see it, the biggest thing holding Nameless Inversion back was the fact that most creatures are too fragile to ever attempt using it as a pump spell. Lightning Bolt is great because of its flexibility as a Dome-3/Removal-3 spell (and dat cmc). Nameless Inversion is Pump-3/Removal-3, but if no deck can ever utilize it's pump ability then it loses all flexibility and may as well read Pump-3/Removal-3; at which point everyone (rightly) asks "why not just use Doom Blade in case I have to kill a fatty?"
In a deck running lots of Goyf and BabyGoyf it seems like that ??/-3 drawback would be much less of a problem. Attacking with some 0/4 PauperGoyfs then pumping whoever is unblocked into a 6/1 (the dual card types turning on delirium) seems like it would make a fun combat trick. I mean it's all purely speculative here (I haven't run a million proxies to get a great feel for it) but the fact that Esper (big butt) Dragons runs Nameless Inversion seems to follow the same logic.
Also, my whole rant here basically assumes that the deck in question is running GBx rather than say GRB or whatever; why play NI over LB (at 1cmc less) if you're already running red?
The jury is probably still out on Tarfire, though. One damage less 'per-bolt' versus adding one damage more 'per-swing' with Goyf seems to be a much more subtle difference. There's probably some optimal balance split that'll only be found through hardcore playtesting.
On a different note, has anyone found any neat silver bullets on the land side of the toolkit? I know there wasn't enough worth building a Sylvan Scrying toolkit before, but the creature/land flexibility on Traverse seems to allow a mix of 1-ofs that would previously be unheard of. Here's a couple ideas:
Bojuka Bog seems like easy maindeck graveyard hate.
Ghost Quarter are often already maindeck, but maybe Traverse into GQ is useful in turning off Tron even if it costs G and a land drop.
Alchemist's Refuge seems like a neato card, not sure if getting to dump our cards at instant speed opens any great lines of play, though. (But it may make an opponent rather nervous, which is fun.)
I think Hangarback walker is the missing piece of the puzzle here. It does a few things:
* Sits with courser as another card that makes 2 delirium
* Relatively resilient threat that scales with mana
* Can gain ridiculous value with a land toolbox (academy ruins) -- I can attest with some experience that ruins*hangarback loops end games. Most decks just cannot keep up with that much value.
I have been toying with a bant tempo ish version with some countermagic and the knightfall combo as a wincon. Seems vulnerable to abrupt decay... but also it seems like it could play a midrangey game with gavony township. Thoughts?
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Some of the most important questions would be:
How hard is it to get Delirium online and what are the best enablers?
How early can (and should, as in how hard should we warp our deck around the card) we be able to turn it on? (It would be really nice if somebody could get some testing done on this as I'm sadly not able do that myself currently)
What (kind of) creatures and/or lands do we actually want to tutor for?
What's the best colour combination to abuse this card?
What kind of strategy do the answers of all these questions lead us to?
I'll start with some of my own opinions:
If we decide to play mediocre cards like Mishra's Bauble, Goblin Tarfire or Nameless Inversion, the pay off should be really big (like 'combo-kill-big' at best but not just 'oh-let-me-search-for-that-Snappy-so-I-can-bolt-your-creature-big', nice as an option but not enough) and we should profit from these mediocre cards in some other way too. Tarmogoyf comes to mind obviously, but other cards like Delver or some Prowess guys seem to have room to explore too.
Another interesting option would be to leave all these 'cute' enablers at home and really on the good old 'creature, land, sorcery, instant' and play 'must kill creatures' like Dark Confidant or Young Pyromancer. If they eat removal (like they usually do) that's ok as you got your creature card in the grave. If they don't die...even better because they'll run away with the game!
When it comes to what creatures to tutor for, the first ones I can think about are all the awesome white (or green white) hatebears:
Kataki, War's Wage, Ethersworn Canonist, Qasali Pridemage, Gaddock Teeg, Kor Firewalker, just to name a few really strong sideboard bullets.
But besides those bullets, white doesn't offer much for us I think...
What are your ideas for Traverse the Ulvenwald?
Do you maybe already have a decklist your playtesting?
Let's put our creativity together and break this awesome card!
*Edit*
I just checked that SCDs about spoiled cards that aren't legal yet are not allowed. Sorry about this.
Maybe a mod can move this thread to the Deck Creation Forums?
Thread merged with the other Traverse the Ulvenwald thread in Deck Creation
- Torpf
Courser of Kruphix seems like the glue of such a deck. If it dies it turns on Delirium and if it lives it generates value. Domri Rade, Mishra's Bauble, and Abbot of Keral Keep all play really well with Courser too, are strong on their own, and enable Delirium. Past this, Tarmogoyf is a pretty natural inclusion as is Eternal Witness, and even Solemn Simulacrum turns on Delirium while giving you advantage. On the spell front you get Lightning Bolt, Seal of Fire, and Tarfire as the low hanging fruit. Forked Bolt adds a strong sorcery, you can go deep with Roast and Oath of Nissa can help out too.
All in all I'm thinking something like this
2 Copperline Gorge
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Stomping Ground
1 Cinder Glade
1 Rootbound Crag
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
1 Mountain
4 Abbot of Keral Keep
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Courser of Kruphix
3 Eternal Witness
1 Solemn Simulacrum
Planeswalkers 2
2 Domri Rade
Enchantment 5
3 Oath of Nissa
2 Seal of Fire
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Tarfire
Sorcery 8
3 Forked Bolt
1 Roast
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
Artifact 3
3 Mishra's Bauble
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/681180-traverse-the-ulvenwald
My thoughts on it are that all you're really looking for from Traverse early game is shuffle effects, later in the game there's not really a hate card you want (though that's a sideboard option), instead just getting value creatures is good enough. Use Traverse to get an Eternal Witness, return Traverse, and repeat. That's usually good enough to win games, or when you want to close go get a Goyf.
I do like the Pyromancer take, perhaps in a RUG Delver shell, you may have stumbled on the best deck for it with this suggestion. You can use it as another card to flip Delver early while turning it into a threat late that even plays well with Snap and Pyro. In that sense, alongside Snap you can treat it as having another 8 goyfs in your deck that trigger Delver. It does wonders for the decks threat density.
As for me, I can echo what ktkenshinx just said. And if you go Toolbox, and running Courser (a good staller), I could see you going deeper and running a couple of Chords to maximize that *toolbox* aspect. So Kiki-Chord might be another source where you can draw inspiration from.
Keep it up, card is OBVIOUSLY great
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
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UWUWxUW
I was thinking of leaving the toolbox to the SB and just trying to play a value based game 1. My main reason for this is that I think the toolbox aspect comes online too slowly. In the best case scenario Delirium probably isn't coming online until turn 4.
Another thought, is the idea posted on the Index page, going for a RUG Delver build where you just shoot for land/creature/instant/sorcery and use this as an early game Delver flipper that late game turns into another threat. It would pair real well with Young Pyromancer in such a scenario and over 2 turns you could even go Traverse, Goyf, Snapcaster/Traverse, Goyf. Seems powerful, probably coming in over a few counterspells since higher threat density means you don't need to protect as many creatures.
http://modernnexus.com/prowl-service-brewing-temur-rogues/
I don't think we should go all-in on the toolbox idea. But 2-3 bullets are exactly what we want in game one. Elves does the same with Chord (see stuff like Ooze and Spellskite). GSZ Zoo decks also did that in Modern's early history, and efficient toolboxing was a major reason Pod was bannably good. The key with Traverse is that you're playing 5/6 (or bigger) Goyfs alongside your toolbox, so you have a dumb beatdown Plan A and a toolbox Plan B.
That's fair. Spellskite is definitely an include in that case since he hits Artifact+Creature.
Thus, for me to reliably get Turn 3-4 Delirium, I definitely need another, faster shell--maybe a Dredge-like or Prowess-like shell can fuel me fast enough.
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Erayo, Soratami Ascendant
1 Thing in the Ice
1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1 Spellskite
1 Eternal Witness
1 Bounding Krasis
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
4 Traverse the Uldenwald
4 Serum Visions
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Tarfire
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Steam Vents
2 Breeding Pool
1 Stomping Ground
1 Lumbering Falls
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 Island
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Desolate Lighthouse
1 Invasive Surgery
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Ghost Quarter
A RUG Delver shell is also the Idea if been thinking about the most actually, thanks for pointing that out!
Traverse non delirium mode is actually of good use here, as we can go lower on land drops with it (which is exactly what delver wants).
Also you can fit in some numbers of Mishra's Bauble (grows Goyf and helps to flip Delver->look at your top card with it, decide how to stack it's draw or Delver's trigger on your upkeep) or Tarfire (as Bolt number 5 or even 6) in that deck anyway.
But I think not running at least 1-2 bullets in the main is a mistake. Cards like Scavening Ooze see mainboard play anyway and cards like Magus of the Moon or even Spellskite can be devastating in the right meta.
Right now I'm thinking about testing something like this:
4x Delver of Secrets
4x Tarmogyof
4x Young Pyromancer
3x Snapcaster Mage
1x Scavening Ooze
1x Huntmaster of the Fells
4x Serum Visions
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Traverse the Ulvenwald
4x Lightning Bolt
1x Electrolyze
1x Tarfire
2x Mana Leak
1x Spell Snare
1x Spell Pierce
2x Simic Charm
I don't even know if 4x Traverse would be the right number. Maybe 3x is actually better, but I'll test with 4x first to see the card more often.
Currently playing:
GCasual 8-post
R Casual Land Destruction
UBRWG Legacy Dredge
WGB Modern Melira Pod
RUG EDH
It could be ok in the gr ramp decks but I don't get the draw for people playing it in these midrange decks. Maybe in like some sort of utility creature deck where it let's you search up bullets but I dunno
I'm think.though maybe in modern it could help Kiki chord or abzan company.
I haven't run into that with my testing. You don't want to race to turn it on, rather just play your deck and turn it on naturally. It doesn't work in the face of GY hate but otherwise it does. The Delver shell fills the GY rather quickly and the more midrange shell I came up with does the same thing but slower. The thing with going for a mill strategy to fill the GY quickly is that you have a high chance of milling the card you want to tutor. That's why I don't like the silver bullet idea here, it turns on around turn 3-4 and the card doesn't get you your answer until 4-5 which is too slow for hate. It's better to just shoot for tutoring a value play.
Magus and Spellskite seem good, Scavenging Ooze seems less good since the deck usually doesn't have much green mana. I like that an early Traverse can even help to disguise the play of a flashbacked or second copy getting Magus while setting up your basics. My initial thought is something like this, I might be trimming too many lands for Traverse, but the plan is to use them for lands early anyways.
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Breeding Pool
2 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Forest
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Young Pyromancer
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Spellskite
Spells 28
4 Serum Visions
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Gitaxian Probe
2 Tarfire
1 Spell Snare
1 Spell Pierce
4 Mana Leak
3 Send to Sleep
2 Remand
That's what I tried initially. It works well enough but the creature options are pretty limited. Red is the best support color for Delirium but W/B offers the best type creature outside of green with Tidehollow Sculler.
I completely share the opinion that Traverse doesn't fit in the traditional Jund or Abzan midrange lists. They really don't get enough out of tutoring for creatures and usually play 24+ lands so using it to smooth out your land draws is less likely too.
But the 'typical-silver-bullet-creature-decks' are way to bad at enabling Delirium consistently, so they don't fit neither. And I'm also not aware of any GR ramp deck that's good at enabling Delirium and wants to search for creatures as finishers.
I don't think Traverse the Ulvenwald fits any already existing (or let's say Tiered) shell perfectly (closest being RUG Delver by now) but it has the potential to create a nice new deck as it is a huge consistency enabler and seems actually less restrictive in deck building than cards like Collected Company.
In a BUG shell for example you can search for Snappy, E-Wit, Vendillion Clique or maybe even Shriekmaw if you need removal or discard, or Scooze for gravehate or Goyf to close out the game, Kalitas or Thragtusk (probably after SB) if you need to win the value game...all of these creatures (besides Shriekmaw) see play in Modern anyway and I'd call most of them staples actually. Having basically 5 (or even more) copies of them MB seems good enough to make a viable modern deck if you ask me.
Architects of Will and Glassdust Hulk are indeed cards to keep in mind if you wanna get delirium on ASAP.
But I think usually Mishra's Bauble and Tarfire will be better because of synergies with other cards (Delver, Prowess) and you don't need really need Delirium on turn 2, but turn 3 or 4 usually (as you also need enough mana to actually play the creature you tutored).
Why 2x Sleight of Hand but no Serum Visions?
And don't you think Tarfire and Bauble are enough to get Delirium on consistently? Faithless Looting seems overkill (and card disadvantage is baaaaaad:D)
Oh and I like your SB, Vexing Shusher and Izzet Staticaster are interesting cards with I hadn't thought about yet.
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
Pump-3/Removal-3; at which point everyone (rightly) asks "why not just use Doom Blade in case I have to kill a fatty?"In a deck running lots of Goyf and BabyGoyf it seems like that ??/-3 drawback would be much less of a problem. Attacking with some 0/4 PauperGoyfs then pumping whoever is unblocked into a 6/1 (the dual card types turning on delirium) seems like it would make a fun combat trick. I mean it's all purely speculative here (I haven't run a million proxies to get a great feel for it) but the fact that Esper (big butt) Dragons runs Nameless Inversion seems to follow the same logic.
Also, my whole rant here basically assumes that the deck in question is running GBx rather than say GRB or whatever; why play NI over LB (at 1cmc less) if you're already running red?
The jury is probably still out on Tarfire, though. One damage less 'per-bolt' versus adding one damage more 'per-swing' with Goyf seems to be a much more subtle difference. There's probably some optimal balance split that'll only be found through hardcore playtesting.
On a different note, has anyone found any neat silver bullets on the land side of the toolkit? I know there wasn't enough worth building a Sylvan Scrying toolkit before, but the creature/land flexibility on Traverse seems to allow a mix of 1-ofs that would previously be unheard of. Here's a couple ideas:
* Sits with courser as another card that makes 2 delirium
* Relatively resilient threat that scales with mana
* Can gain ridiculous value with a land toolbox (academy ruins) -- I can attest with some experience that ruins*hangarback loops end games. Most decks just cannot keep up with that much value.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall