Overview of the Deck
On 4 April 2016, Modern changed for the better. Winter came and went - and we entered Spring. While the ban of Eldrazi was expected, the addition of new toys in Modern signaled an opportunity to start brewing - specifically in the Uxx space. Thus a new era of brewing ensued and we got this article from Reid Duke.
I'll quote him directly here in describing the deck:
Quote from Reid Duke »
This is the type of deck that’s best suited (or at least, most “obviously” suited) to use Ancestral Vision. It’s not a pure control deck in the sense that it wants to drag the game on indefinitely. Instead, it seeks to buy time with cheap removal and permission spells in the early game, pull ahead in the midgame with 2-for-1 cards like Snapcaster Mage and Electrolyze, and finally, close things out quickly with Tarmogoyf or Huntmaster of the Fells and a flurry of Lightning Bolts.
Reid built his deck on the premise of boarding into a Blue Moon deck, which is a good starting point, although it does come at its own costs (specifically a slightly more shaky manabase and the inability to run Scavenging Ooze). With that said, Jason Chung in the middle of Eldrazi Winter piloted his Blue Moon deck to a 10th place finish at Pro Tour Oath of the Gatewatch, being undefeated against non-Eldrazi decks on his way to an 6-3 Modern record.
So why the G splash - Mr Duke has words for us here:
Quote from Reid Duke »
... green offers Tarmogoyf, the most efficient attacker and blocker in Modern, Huntmaster of the Fells, an extremely effective, reliable, and fun curve-topper for a deck full of cheap instants, and Ancient Grudge, the best sideboard card in the format.
This is also in line with the thinking of splashing G in Twin decks. Tarmogoyf is just a beating that forces your opponent to react - and with the number of Islands we run - our opponent is always going to be wary of Blood Moon - both pre- and post-board.
Snapcaster Mage - Raw card advantage attached to an Ambush Viper. This is the best card in the deck, in blue colours and probably in Modern. You play four, almost every time.
Tarmogoyf - Without a Turn 1 discard spell to set up our 'Goyf, the Llurgoyf loses some value. That said, the second best 'blue creature' in Modern deserves his spot in this list and is the reason we're even in green in the first place. Duke suggests playing three - four may be the correct answer, but without the consistency of a 3/4 'Goyf on Turn 2, perhaps using it more as a later game threat we can protect means three is the correct number.
Vendilion Clique - A Flash 3/1 Flier that allows you to replace a card in your opponents hand for a random card is good. This card will allow us to continue to play a reactive plan, and then drop an end of turn threat. The downside is that she's very easy to kill and trades with Thopter and Spirit tokens. Zero to Two of depending on your meta.
Huntmaster of the Fells - Two bodies, a small life gain, and then some amazing upside when it transforms back and forth. Neither side is Abrupt Decayable which will mean if we untap with him against BGx we are definitely ahead. Four mana is a lot to spend though and you definitely don't want to be seeing too many of these in the early part of the game.
Goblin Dark-Dwellers - Probably in here purely for the synergy with Ancestral Vision - but this card will close out games quickly if we can land it. Worth testing to see if this card deserves its spot.
Pia and Kiran Nalaar - Three bodies (take that Huntmaster) and the ability to gum up the board while we keep digging for answers, while also being a reasonable clock on an empty board. This card has been amazing in straight Blue Moon seeing play with up to three spots main. Going forward our testing might see Chandra's parents become a definite starter in our deck.
Batterskull - Not technically a creature, but plays like one in this deck. A 4/4 Vigilance Lifelink is the best way to stabilise a board and gain inevitability. In a world of artifact hate due to the anticipated rise of ThopterSword, this becomes less good. A staple in Blue Moon, and something that may become a staple here if Kolaghan's Command doesn't become a thing.
Ancestral Vision - This why we're even talking about this deck in the first place. This deck is designed to go into the mid to late game, and drawing three cards around this time will push you over the edge. Always four.
Serum Visions - The best draw spell we have. Best used as a midgame draw smoother rather than early game card draw, but does a good job of helping us keep those one or two land hands. Generally we run four, but with four Ancestral Vision we run the threat of having a deck of draw spells that without Delve creatures or Young Pyromancer generate no value. I've been suggesting that the four/three split is correct all week, and I'm glad Reid agrees with me.
Cryptic Command - Can Cryptic Command do it? If you answer No, reread Cryptic Command. At four mana, this card does put pressure on our curve, but the flexibility it provides is unparalleled in Modern. You don't want to overload on this card, but you definitely want to see it. Three might be a bit much, but two might be too few...
Spell Snare to - Depending on the meta this card goes from - why? to amazing. This answers so many cards that are relevant in the format and by the nature of the card text is always a tempo-positive play. One mana counters are good, and currently this is the best.
Spell Pierce to - Much more situational than Spell Snare, this card gets decidedly worse as the game goes on. Useful in very specific instances, and great if your opponent expects and plays around the one you don't have.
Dispel to - Similar to Spell Pierce and Spell Snare as to it's usefulness in your meta. Great when you're countering opposing Cryptic Commands and even better when you're countering Burn's spells, and then Snap'ing it back for all the value.
Mana Leak - This is probably Reid's most controversial decision. Maybe it's because he's a BGx Mage rather than a blue one. Mana Leak gets less effective over the course of the game, but does a great job of just saying 'No' in the early game.
Remand - The quintessential tempo card, a temporary 'No' that replaces itself and late game has some fun interactions with opposing counterspells. The fact that it draws a card means that it's never completely dead.
Lightning Bolt - the best removal spell in Modern and a definite four of. I don't think this needs too much explanation.
Electrolyze - great against a lot of the field but often a Shock targeting your opponent that replaces itself. Definitely mainboardable in a world of Infect and Affinity, and the fact that it replaces itself means it is never truly dead.
Flame Slash - for those bigger creatures. Not the greatest removal spell but can be a useful one-of that when it's good, can be flashed back.
Other options in the Flame Slash spot include Roast (hits opposing 'Goyfs and Tasigur, the Golden Fang), Harvest Pyre (instant speed is nice, but taxes your graveyard), Burst Lightning (a fifth 'Bolt' effect for meta's with a lot of low to the ground decks) and Tarfire (similar to Burst Lightning without the kicker, but the ability to pump our 'Goyf that extra bit).
Vedalken Shackles - once resolved this becomes a nightmare for your opponent to deal with. Might be cut if maindeck artifact hate becomes a reality, but in the meantime this will steal a lot of relevant threats (including Etched Champion).
Guide to Playing the Deck
As with most decks in Modern, determining your role is going to be a key skill in playing this deck. In general, the early game we'll be control. Answering threats with counters or burn, and then turning the corner with our creatures (hopefully on the back of a full grip thanks to Ancestral Vision).
We will be looking to one-for-one our opponent, until our raw card advantage puts us ahead and our giant Tarmogoyf gets in enough hits before Snap-Bolt-Snap finishes off the game.
Sideboard and match-ups
I'm not going to give a hard and fast guide as the sideboard will be in flux as the deck is tuned, in addition context and the specifics of your opponent matter. Match-up rating is based purely on my gut. Feel free to disagree in the comments and we can update the Primer as we go along.
Tier 1 Infect
We're probably slightly above even against Infect. We have five sources of turn 1 removal and Mana Leak is much better than Remand in this match-up. Vedalken Shackles is slow, but ensures that we have the late-game - if it gets to that. Electrolyze can also cause blow-outs.
Post-board we'll have access to sweepers in your choice of Pyroclasm, Anger of the Gods and Kozilek's Return along with mini-sweeper, Izzet Staticaster. Blood Moon can be a beating against them with many decks eschewing Island, so you have the potential to shut off one colour completely. Spellskite is also a beating, but it's likely they'll be bringing in hate. If you can protect it, they can't win. You also bring in the Dispels.
Scavenging Ooze - if ThopterSword becomes a thing, then this card will be our mainboard answer. It also counters opposing Snapcaster Mage, stops Abzan Company's combo and adds a little bit of value. In addition it will improve the ability of the deck to play a more aggressive role. This would require a change in the manabase to support the additional G requirements. My suggested cut would be the Vedalken Shackles and play the following manabase:
I know the Lumbering Falls might be contentious, but in a midrange deck manlands are valuable and the inability for your Jund/Control opponent to interact with it makes it great on an empty board.
Goblin Dark-Dwellers - a good card, or just a cute interaction with Ancestral Vision. We wouldn't play this if not for Vision, does the inclusion of the draw spell make this card playable. Jund enjoys this card because it doesn't play in the opponents turn, and it has more targets.
Any thoughts towards Thing in the Ice in this shell?
It is my view that Thing in the Ice is better suited to slow control that is willing to play instants and sorceries and eventually just win the game on the back of Thing.
In this deck it would compete with 'Goyf, At which point, I'd just part Blue Moon.
The Meta was:
5 UWR
3 Titan Shift
3 Kiki Chord
3 Merfolk
3 Naya Zoo 1 1drop, 1 Big 1 4C
3 Latern
3 Infekt
3 Blue Moon
3 D &T
3 Junk
3 Jund
2 Affinity
2 GW 1 leap 1 aggro
2 Burn
2 Rug Kiki 1 RUG
1 Melira
1 Scapeshift
1 UR Shape Anew
1 RW Nahiri Stacks
1 4C Wish
1 4c Gifts
1 UR Aggro
1 Grixis Control
1 Death Fiend
1 Elfen
1 Jeskai Ascendancy
1 Dredge
1 Mardu
1 Boggles
1 Valakut Breach
1 UB Tezzeret
In total there were 7 decks using Ancestral Vision, 3 with the Thopter/sword combo and one utilizing Thing in the Ice.
(Here is a link to the tournament report of the TO on a german MTG site with top 16 decklist etc:
I did not take notes so I will try to recrate the matches from my mind.
My matchups were: Round 1: low-drop Zoo (2-1) lost die roll
This is where the 4th Tarmogoyf payed off a lot.
Game 1 I was able to stall the bord with removal and Goyf until Huntmaster of the Fells could take over.
Game 2 I mulled to 5 and his start was way to fast. His Wild Nacatl, Kird Apes and Burning-Tree Emessary just ran me over.
Game 3 We both mulled to 6 and Goyf plus Bolt plus Firespout into Shackles finished him off.
SB:
- 4 Ancestral Vision, 2 Electrolyze, 1 Cryptic Command
+ Lavamancer, Spellskite, Thragtusk, Pyroclasm, Firespout, 2 Dispel (maybe Negate)
Round 2: Meerfolk (2-1) lost die roll
Game 1 I got overrun by 2 Master of Waves on a stalled bord
Game 2 and 3 I just remember Stalling with removal and sweepers until Goyf of Huntmaster could take over. Shackles was awesome here to deal with Master of Waves. Also Spreading Seas and Seas Claim stalled the game from his side.
SB:
- 2 AV, 1 Cryptic, 2 Leak
+ Lavamancer, Staticaster, Tragtusk, Pyroclasm, Firespout
Round 3: UWR Control (2-1) lost die roll
This MU was all about resolving AV. At one point we had 7 AV suspended among us and the fights on upkeep were hard. The countersuite was adequately equipped for the fight but could be improved if this type of deck gains more prevailance. Here also the weakness to 4 toughness manlands showed itself. Shackles, Bloodmoon and Dispel were a house in this MU.
SB:
- 3 Serum Visons (very debatable but my thought was that the effect in the long and grindy MU was negligible),1 Huntmaster, 1 ElectrolyzeFlameshlash (no Resto), 3/2 Bolt
+ Grim Lavamancer (for incidental damage and to deal with Colonade with bolt), Glen Elendra Archmage, Thragtusk, 2 Dispel, Negate and 3/2 Blood Moon (only 2 in game 3 b/c he lost to it game 2)
Round 4: Wb D&T (2-0) lost die roll
He had Wasteland Strangler to process AV main deck. Other than that he lost to my removal and 2/3 for ones. All the basics helped a lot to avoid getting mana denialed.
SB:
- 3 Spell Snare (did not see any important 2 drop game 1), 2 Mana Leak (b/c of Vial)
+ Grim Lavamancer, Staticaster, Thragtusk, Pyroclasm, Firespout
Round 5: UWR Midrange (2-0) won die roll
He was much more agressive than my previous UWR opponent (Finks, Blade Splicer) so I treated this MU more as an aggro MU and the control mirror and he fell victim to my removal and good blockers. Huntmaster of the Fells was a house in this particular match
SB:
- 1 AV, 3 Mana Leak (maybe bring them in on the play?), 1 Cryptic
+ Grim Lavamancer, Thragtusk, 2 Dispel, Pyroclasm, Firespout
Round 6: Kiki-Chord (2-0) lost die roll (I conceded b/c he wanted the Byes but we played non the less)
We played two games after I concided and I won both. The MU feels grindy and AV brings you ahead if you can keep close to parity until its resolution. Also Huntmaster and Shackles are (again) very good here.
SB:
- 3 Spell Snare (just hits Walls and Voice which they play 2 off), 3 Mana Leak (I wanted to become more of a bord control deck)
+ Grim Lavamancer, Thragtusk, Pyroclasm, Firespout, 2 Dispel
All in all the deck felt really good and fluent. Some of my SB decisions might be attributed to my lack of sleep (about 4-5h) and a long work day on saturday.
I would like to find room for Huntmaster of the Fells number 3 and some tech against Ancestral Visions like maybe Invasive Surgery.
Also the 3rd Ancienct Grude or a Nature's Claim in the bord might be good especaially with the rise of blue decks and the incuision of Choke ins peoples side boards.
Another question on my mind is the matchup with Thopter/Sword decks.
If you have any questions about my experiance with the deck let me know and I'll try to answer you.
What's your opinion about a Toolbox sb approach? I'm speaking of adding 4x Traverse the Ulvenwald and 4-5 Silverbullets like Magus of the Moon, Spellskite and so on. Delirium should not be that hard to achieve with this kind of deck.
I think it's a completely different deck and should have its own thread. Previously the Tier forums we split Tarmo, Grixis and UR Twin - and those shared a lot more than this does with a Toolbox deck. (Also I don't like relying on getting Delirium)
I guess it would be better if all of these discussions would be summed up in one thread, maybe a mod could do that.
Didn't see that thread when I wrote this, not sure how the mods want to proceed (given that that thread is not a Primer and has mostly discussions from over a year a go). What I might do when I get time is reread that thread and incorporate any relevant findings into the opening thread.
I think the tech vs. Ancestral Vision would be Swerve - can also save our permanents against Abrupt Decay.
You'r welcome. Swerve came to mind but has two downsides I can think about. It is 2cmc which lets it get hit by Spell Snare which has a huge uptick in popuraity right now and is also very narrow in the MU's you want to board it in against. Thats why I was thinking about Invasive Surgery which also counters Scapeshift, Sweepers and other haymaker sorcerys for just U.
You could probably get away with it, but then I would suggest using the alternative manabase and using 3 Scavenging Ooze rather than Hooting Mandrills.
I have two questions. One why is no one running dismember? This helps this deck deal with manlands at instant speed. Second why is no one running Savage Knuckleblade? He is made for this style of deck.
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I have two questions. One why is no one running dismember? This helps this deck deal with manlands at instant speed. Second why is no one running Savage Knuckleblade? He is made for this style of deck.
I'm testing a temur midrange deck that runs 4 savage knuckleblade, but tbe biggest reason I'm testing it is i lack goyfs. However it is treating favorably. But i also skipped the blood moon plan
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I have two questions. One why is no one running dismember? This helps this deck deal with manlands at instant speed. Second why is no one running Savage Knuckleblade? He is made for this style of deck.
I'm testing a temur midrange deck that runs 4 savage knuckleblade, but tbe biggest reason I'm testing it is i lack goyfs. However it is treating favorably. But i also skipped the blood moon plan
Knuckleblade shouldn't be ran with blood moon for obvious reasons but the card seems very good in modern. The card can even protect itself.
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Rounds 1 & 2 where against budget'ish decks - so not much to say (Allies and Elves). Bolts and Snapcaster did their thing, and once Ancestral Vision resolved I was far ahead. These are the sort of games where card quality matters, and RUG definitely has card quality (I compare this to those times I played GW Hatebears, where you're favoured against all the Tier decks, but you struggle when your opponent just plays basics and big creatures). Anyway - the point is that the deck is good enough to beat the Tier 3/4 things that will present themselves in the early rounds - so that's a plus.
Round 3 was a nightmare round. I lost 2-1 in games against Knightfall, but in truth we didn't play Magic. I kept a slow hand in both Games 1 & 3 where I lost to pure beatdown (Game 3 I could've won had I mulliganed into a Bolt the Bird hand). Game 2 - he mulled to 4 and had just a colourless land for the first 4 to 5 turns. It did take me a while to actually get pressure on the board though. If there was a strike against this deck is that can end up not punishing your opponent for dodgy keeps.
Round 4 made up for Round 3's general non-interaction with a classic Control match-up. Opponent was on UWR. We traded spells all game and each resolved a single Ancestral Vision (despite both seeing most of our decks by the end of it). In the end the MVP was Vedalken Shackles and my 2 Mana Leak I had drawn late in the game when we both had all our fetchable lands in play. Ultimately those saved me from taking lethal burn before my Tarmogoyf finished him. Game 2 was a lot simpler, end of turn fight over Vendillion Clique (yes you may Path to Exile it with your last mana, after he had shown me how disloyal the Llurghoyf can be) into Turn 5 Blood Moon with 3 Islands and a Forest to ensure I could cast all my spells. His single Plains was not enough and ultimately the game was mine thanks to the Wolf token that remained after he dealt with Huntmaster.
So where to from here?
The deck is good, it has the right ingredients to succeed - not sure if it's Tier yet, but the signs are positive; it has game against random decks, it has a proactive plan, and it has the capability of getting free wins. The question really is - is it better than Blue Moon, Grixis or even Jund - I'm going to continue to play this while the meta figures itself out but those are it's benchmarks and if its just a worse version of one of those then I'll just be playing one of those.
Ended up going 3-1 and taking second (also $40 which was nice). I beat WR Kiki-resto-sin prodder 2-1, lost to Cruel control 0-2, beat Kiki Chord 2-1 and beat UG infect 2-0.
I wish I could give a detailed report but I am exhausted and I don't fully remember how things played out. I will say that AV felt great, drawing 4 cards at the start of your turn felt broken. Out of the 11 games I played, I got to live the dream and Goblin Dark-Dwellers into Ancestral Vision 3 times. This deck had a really interesting feel. A lot of the times I felt like I was playing control, but at the same time dropping goyfs, with a touch of tempo. I ended a lot of games with bolt-snap-bolt, and one with GDD targeting an electrolyze.
The one matchup where I felt I really struggled was against Grixis cruel control. He had all the answers for the creature beat down and even though I was drawing tons of cards I could never get going. Huntmaster was nice, but it never really helped, just immediately ate removal. Maybe Arlinn Kord could be good. Anyway, very happy with the deck, small tweaks needed but the core felt really good.
So other cards I want to consider are Harvest Pyre and Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir. Harvest Pyre seems to be wanting to solve the issues that Twin used to have, and Teferi is just great against control which I felt that this deck struggled against.
Been playing the deck online a bunch today. It feels real. Been beating a bunch of T2 decks, Abzan, burn and D&T included, from crazy behind wins. Empty board vs 2 4/5 goyfs. This deck has so much card draw it can just rally out of no where. Not sure if it is T1, but definitely has the feel of a T2 deck.
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Current Decks
Modern
No idea because my favorite decks keep getting banned or having the rules changed against them
Thoughts on thing in the ice in this style of list? with cards like snapcaster, clique, darkdwellers, etc, bouncing your own things is quite relevant, and being able to play another standalone threat is nice. The deck seems to play a lot of spells in the games I've seen as well, and while you won't be flipping it turn 3, flipping it at all shouldn't be a problem.
I love the card but I think it wants to be in more pure control builds (going straight into my turns deck). While I does bounce snap, clique and GDD, it also sends your goyfs and hunt masters back, which is not so good. That all being said it may be a great SB card versus token based decks or aggro beat down deck.
I just started a league with my above list. I may have to pick up some TITIs to test.
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Current Decks
Modern
No idea because my favorite decks keep getting banned or having the rules changed against them
Note that redirect is harder to cast, but lets you take kolaghan's commands, cryptic commands, electrolyzes, among other things. If you can afford double blue (if you play clique, or cryptic, you should be able to) its probably just straight up better, barring bloodmoon.
Note that redirect is harder to cast, but lets you take kolaghan's commands, cryptic commands, electrolyzes, among other things. If you can afford double blue (if you play clique, or cryptic, you should be able to) its probably just straight up better, barring bloodmoon.
Redirect just seems better since we play 10 blue sources and 9 fetches, at least 8 of which get blue. Swerve is harder with R which we only have 3-5 sources for.
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No idea because my favorite decks keep getting banned or having the rules changed against them
I'm considering running card for card what Reid post on CFB recently. The SB seems light on answers vs Abzan Company though. I'm sort of stuck between playing this and Abzan Company.
I'm considering running card for card what Reid post on CFB recently. The SB seems light on answers vs Abzan Company though. I'm sort of stuck between playing this and Abzan Company.
The potential hate would really be cards like Tormod's Crypt or Relic of Progenitus as RUG doesn't have many exile or graveyard hate effects. I guess Grafdigger's Cage could also work well, but it kind of hurts our snaps and GDD.
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RUG Midrange
Overview of the Deck
On 4 April 2016, Modern changed for the better. Winter came and went - and we entered Spring. While the ban of Eldrazi was expected, the addition of new toys in Modern signaled an opportunity to start brewing - specifically in the Uxx space. Thus a new era of brewing ensued and we got this article from Reid Duke.
I'll quote him directly here in describing the deck:
Reid built his deck on the premise of boarding into a Blue Moon deck, which is a good starting point, although it does come at its own costs (specifically a slightly more shaky manabase and the inability to run Scavenging Ooze). With that said, Jason Chung in the middle of Eldrazi Winter piloted his Blue Moon deck to a 10th place finish at Pro Tour Oath of the Gatewatch, being undefeated against non-Eldrazi decks on his way to an 6-3 Modern record.
So why the G splash - Mr Duke has words for us here:
This is also in line with the thinking of splashing G in Twin decks. Tarmogoyf is just a beating that forces your opponent to react - and with the number of Islands we run - our opponent is always going to be wary of Blood Moon - both pre- and post-board.
Decklist
While we have Reid's list to start us off, recently there was a 60 player Modern event where RUG Midrange came second:
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
Instants [15]
2 Electrolyze
3 Cryptic Command
3 Mana Leak
3 Spell Snare
4 Lightning Bolt
Sorceries [8]
1 Flame Slash
3 Serum Visions
4 Ancestral Vision
2 Vedalken Shackles
Lands [23]
1 Breeding Pool
1 Flooded Strand
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Polluted Delta
1 Stomping Ground
2 Steam Vents
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
7 Island
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Spellskite
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Thragtusk
1 Pyroclasm
1 Firespout
2 Dispel
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Negate
3 Blood Moon
The deck is very similar to Reid's except for the addition of an additional Tarmogoyf over the third Huntmaster of the Fells. You can see blub_master's tournament report here.
Card Choices
Creatures
Snapcaster Mage - Raw card advantage attached to an Ambush Viper. This is the best card in the deck, in blue colours and probably in Modern. You play four, almost every time.
Tarmogoyf - Without a Turn 1 discard spell to set up our 'Goyf, the Llurgoyf loses some value. That said, the second best 'blue creature' in Modern deserves his spot in this list and is the reason we're even in green in the first place. Duke suggests playing three - four may be the correct answer, but without the consistency of a 3/4 'Goyf on Turn 2, perhaps using it more as a later game threat we can protect means three is the correct number.
Vendilion Clique - A Flash 3/1 Flier that allows you to replace a card in your opponents hand for a random card is good. This card will allow us to continue to play a reactive plan, and then drop an end of turn threat. The downside is that she's very easy to kill and trades with Thopter and Spirit tokens. Zero to Two of depending on your meta.
Huntmaster of the Fells - Two bodies, a small life gain, and then some amazing upside when it transforms back and forth. Neither side is Abrupt Decayable which will mean if we untap with him against BGx we are definitely ahead. Four mana is a lot to spend though and you definitely don't want to be seeing too many of these in the early part of the game.
Goblin Dark-Dwellers - Probably in here purely for the synergy with Ancestral Vision - but this card will close out games quickly if we can land it. Worth testing to see if this card deserves its spot.
Pia and Kiran Nalaar - Three bodies (take that Huntmaster) and the ability to gum up the board while we keep digging for answers, while also being a reasonable clock on an empty board. This card has been amazing in straight Blue Moon seeing play with up to three spots main. Going forward our testing might see Chandra's parents become a definite starter in our deck.
Batterskull - Not technically a creature, but plays like one in this deck. A 4/4 Vigilance Lifelink is the best way to stabilise a board and gain inevitability. In a world of artifact hate due to the anticipated rise of ThopterSword, this becomes less good. A staple in Blue Moon, and something that may become a staple here if Kolaghan's Command doesn't become a thing.
Card draw
Ancestral Vision - This why we're even talking about this deck in the first place. This deck is designed to go into the mid to late game, and drawing three cards around this time will push you over the edge. Always four.
Serum Visions - The best draw spell we have. Best used as a midgame draw smoother rather than early game card draw, but does a good job of helping us keep those one or two land hands. Generally we run four, but with four Ancestral Vision we run the threat of having a deck of draw spells that without Delve creatures or Young Pyromancer generate no value. I've been suggesting that the four/three split is correct all week, and I'm glad Reid agrees with me.
Counter suite
Cryptic Command - Can Cryptic Command do it? If you answer No, reread Cryptic Command. At four mana, this card does put pressure on our curve, but the flexibility it provides is unparalleled in Modern. You don't want to overload on this card, but you definitely want to see it. Three might be a bit much, but two might be too few...
Spell Snare to - Depending on the meta this card goes from - why? to amazing. This answers so many cards that are relevant in the format and by the nature of the card text is always a tempo-positive play. One mana counters are good, and currently this is the best.
Spell Pierce to - Much more situational than Spell Snare, this card gets decidedly worse as the game goes on. Useful in very specific instances, and great if your opponent expects and plays around the one you don't have.
Dispel to - Similar to Spell Pierce and Spell Snare as to it's usefulness in your meta. Great when you're countering opposing Cryptic Commands and even better when you're countering Burn's spells, and then Snap'ing it back for all the value.
Mana Leak - This is probably Reid's most controversial decision. Maybe it's because he's a BGx Mage rather than a blue one. Mana Leak gets less effective over the course of the game, but does a great job of just saying 'No' in the early game.
Remand - The quintessential tempo card, a temporary 'No' that replaces itself and late game has some fun interactions with opposing counterspells. The fact that it draws a card means that it's never completely dead.
Removal and Burn
Lightning Bolt - the best removal spell in Modern and a definite four of. I don't think this needs too much explanation.
Electrolyze - great against a lot of the field but often a Shock targeting your opponent that replaces itself. Definitely mainboardable in a world of Infect and Affinity, and the fact that it replaces itself means it is never truly dead.
Flame Slash - for those bigger creatures. Not the greatest removal spell but can be a useful one-of that when it's good, can be flashed back.
Other options in the Flame Slash spot include Roast (hits opposing 'Goyfs and Tasigur, the Golden Fang), Harvest Pyre (instant speed is nice, but taxes your graveyard), Burst Lightning (a fifth 'Bolt' effect for meta's with a lot of low to the ground decks) and Tarfire (similar to Burst Lightning without the kicker, but the ability to pump our 'Goyf that extra bit).
Vedalken Shackles - once resolved this becomes a nightmare for your opponent to deal with. Might be cut if maindeck artifact hate becomes a reality, but in the meantime this will steal a lot of relevant threats (including Etched Champion).
Guide to Playing the Deck
As with most decks in Modern, determining your role is going to be a key skill in playing this deck. In general, the early game we'll be control. Answering threats with counters or burn, and then turning the corner with our creatures (hopefully on the back of a full grip thanks to Ancestral Vision).
We will be looking to one-for-one our opponent, until our raw card advantage puts us ahead and our giant Tarmogoyf gets in enough hits before Snap-Bolt-Snap finishes off the game.
Sideboard and match-ups
I'm not going to give a hard and fast guide as the sideboard will be in flux as the deck is tuned, in addition context and the specifics of your opponent matter. Match-up rating is based purely on my gut. Feel free to disagree in the comments and we can update the Primer as we go along.
Tier 1
Infect
We're probably slightly above even against Infect. We have five sources of turn 1 removal and Mana Leak is much better than Remand in this match-up. Vedalken Shackles is slow, but ensures that we have the late-game - if it gets to that. Electrolyze can also cause blow-outs.
Post-board we'll have access to sweepers in your choice of Pyroclasm, Anger of the Gods and Kozilek's Return along with mini-sweeper, Izzet Staticaster. Blood Moon can be a beating against them with many decks eschewing Island, so you have the potential to shut off one colour completely. Spellskite is also a beating, but it's likely they'll be bringing in hate. If you can protect it, they can't win. You also bring in the Dispels.
Out go the Spell Snare, Huntmaster of the Fells, Cryptic Command, Vedalken Shackles and Ancestral Vision. We don't want any slow cards as we need to interact with them quickly, we will have inevitability here so just hold out and let your Snapcaster Mage and Tarmogoyf carry you to victory.
Burn
Abzan Company
Jund
Affinity
Tier 2
Deck Development
So where to from here?
Well it's testing time. The sideboard is in flux, the deck configuration can be changed. The specific things that I think need testing are:
Mana Leak vs. Remand
Scavenging Ooze - if ThopterSword becomes a thing, then this card will be our mainboard answer. It also counters opposing Snapcaster Mage, stops Abzan Company's combo and adds a little bit of value. In addition it will improve the ability of the deck to play a more aggressive role. This would require a change in the manabase to support the additional G requirements. My suggested cut would be the Vedalken Shackles and play the following manabase:
I know the Lumbering Falls might be contentious, but in a midrange deck manlands are valuable and the inability for your Jund/Control opponent to interact with it makes it great on an empty board.
Pia and Kiran Nalaar and Batterskull, a given in Blue Moon and definitely in contention here.
Goblin Dark-Dwellers - a good card, or just a cute interaction with Ancestral Vision. We wouldn't play this if not for Vision, does the inclusion of the draw spell make this card playable. Jund enjoys this card because it doesn't play in the opponents turn, and it has more targets.
It is my view that Thing in the Ice is better suited to slow control that is willing to play instants and sorceries and eventually just win the game on the back of Thing.
In this deck it would compete with 'Goyf, At which point, I'd just part Blue Moon.
But, everything is worth testing.
Yesterday I played and won a 60 person Trial for the MKM Series using a slightly modified version of Reid Dukes list.
//Maindeck
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Vedalken Shackles
4 Ancestral Vision
1 Flame Slash
3 Serum Visions
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Spell Snare
3 Mana Leak
2 Electrolyze
3 Cryptic Command
1 Breeding Pool
1 Flooded Strand
1 Forest
7 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
1 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Spellskite
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Thragtusk
1 Pyroclasm
1 Firespout
2 Dispel
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Negate
3 Blood Moon
The Meta was:
5 UWR
3 Titan Shift
3 Kiki Chord
3 Merfolk
3 Naya Zoo 1 1drop, 1 Big 1 4C
3 Latern
3 Infekt
3 Blue Moon
3 D &T
3 Junk
3 Jund
2 Affinity
2 GW 1 leap 1 aggro
2 Burn
2 Rug Kiki
1 RUG
1 Melira
1 Scapeshift
1 UR Shape Anew
1 RW Nahiri Stacks
1 4C Wish
1 4c Gifts
1 UR Aggro
1 Grixis Control
1 Death Fiend
1 Elfen
1 Jeskai Ascendancy
1 Dredge
1 Mardu
1 Boggles
1 Valakut Breach
1 UB Tezzeret
In total there were 7 decks using Ancestral Vision, 3 with the Thopter/sword combo and one utilizing Thing in the Ice.
(Here is a link to the tournament report of the TO on a german MTG site with top 16 decklist etc:
I did not take notes so I will try to recrate the matches from my mind.
My matchups were:
Round 1: low-drop Zoo (2-1) lost die roll
This is where the 4th Tarmogoyf payed off a lot.
Game 1 I was able to stall the bord with removal and Goyf until Huntmaster of the Fells could take over.
Game 2 I mulled to 5 and his start was way to fast. His Wild Nacatl, Kird Apes and Burning-Tree Emessary just ran me over.
Game 3 We both mulled to 6 and Goyf plus Bolt plus Firespout into Shackles finished him off.
SB:
- 4 Ancestral Vision, 2 Electrolyze, 1 Cryptic Command
+ Lavamancer, Spellskite, Thragtusk, Pyroclasm, Firespout, 2 Dispel (maybe Negate)
Round 2: Meerfolk (2-1) lost die roll
Game 1 I got overrun by 2 Master of Waves on a stalled bord
Game 2 and 3 I just remember Stalling with removal and sweepers until Goyf of Huntmaster could take over. Shackles was awesome here to deal with Master of Waves. Also Spreading Seas and Seas Claim stalled the game from his side.
SB:
- 2 AV, 1 Cryptic, 2 Leak
+ Lavamancer, Staticaster, Tragtusk, Pyroclasm, Firespout
Round 3: UWR Control (2-1) lost die roll
This MU was all about resolving AV. At one point we had 7 AV suspended among us and the fights on upkeep were hard. The countersuite was adequately equipped for the fight but could be improved if this type of deck gains more prevailance. Here also the weakness to 4 toughness manlands showed itself. Shackles, Bloodmoon and Dispel were a house in this MU.
SB:
- 3 Serum Visons (very debatable but my thought was that the effect in the long and grindy MU was negligible),1 Huntmaster, 1 Electrolyze Flameshlash (no Resto), 3/2 Bolt
+ Grim Lavamancer (for incidental damage and to deal with Colonade with bolt), Glen Elendra Archmage, Thragtusk, 2 Dispel, Negate and 3/2 Blood Moon (only 2 in game 3 b/c he lost to it game 2)
Round 4: Wb D&T (2-0) lost die roll
He had Wasteland Strangler to process AV main deck. Other than that he lost to my removal and 2/3 for ones. All the basics helped a lot to avoid getting mana denialed.
SB:
- 3 Spell Snare (did not see any important 2 drop game 1), 2 Mana Leak (b/c of Vial)
+ Grim Lavamancer, Staticaster, Thragtusk, Pyroclasm, Firespout
Round 5: UWR Midrange (2-0) won die roll
He was much more agressive than my previous UWR opponent (Finks, Blade Splicer) so I treated this MU more as an aggro MU and the control mirror and he fell victim to my removal and good blockers. Huntmaster of the Fells was a house in this particular match
SB:
- 1 AV, 3 Mana Leak (maybe bring them in on the play?), 1 Cryptic
+ Grim Lavamancer, Thragtusk, 2 Dispel, Pyroclasm, Firespout
Round 6: Kiki-Chord (2-0) lost die roll (I conceded b/c he wanted the Byes but we played non the less)
We played two games after I concided and I won both. The MU feels grindy and AV brings you ahead if you can keep close to parity until its resolution. Also Huntmaster and Shackles are (again) very good here.
SB:
- 3 Spell Snare (just hits Walls and Voice which they play 2 off), 3 Mana Leak (I wanted to become more of a bord control deck)
+ Grim Lavamancer, Thragtusk, Pyroclasm, Firespout, 2 Dispel
All in all the deck felt really good and fluent. Some of my SB decisions might be attributed to my lack of sleep (about 4-5h) and a long work day on saturday.
I would like to find room for Huntmaster of the Fells number 3 and some tech against Ancestral Visions like maybe Invasive Surgery.
Also the 3rd Ancienct Grude or a Nature's Claim in the bord might be good especaially with the rise of blue decks and the incuision of Choke ins peoples side boards.
Another question on my mind is the matchup with Thopter/Sword decks.
If you have any questions about my experiance with the deck let me know and I'll try to answer you.
Thanks, was very excited with the list Reid posted, so wanted to make there be a place to discuss this.
I think it's a completely different deck and should have its own thread. Previously the Tier forums we split Tarmo, Grixis and UR Twin - and those shared a lot more than this does with a Toolbox deck. (Also I don't like relying on getting Delirium)
Didn't see that thread when I wrote this, not sure how the mods want to proceed (given that that thread is not a Primer and has mostly discussions from over a year a go). What I might do when I get time is reread that thread and incorporate any relevant findings into the opening thread.
I think the tech vs. Ancestral Vision would be Swerve - can also save our permanents against Abrupt Decay.
You'r welcome.
Swerve came to mind but has two downsides I can think about. It is 2cmc which lets it get hit by Spell Snare which has a huge uptick in popuraity right now and is also very narrow in the MU's you want to board it in against. Thats why I was thinking about Invasive Surgery which also counters Scapeshift, Sweepers and other haymaker sorcerys for just U.
You'd also need to run two of Roast, Dismember and Harvest Pyre to cover for the lack of Vedalken Shackles.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Baby Jace doesn't work here, we're more aggressive than Grixis.
Raging Ravine is my favourite manland - but if you want to Blood Moon people it just doesn't work.
I'm testing a temur midrange deck that runs 4 savage knuckleblade, but tbe biggest reason I'm testing it is i lack goyfs. However it is treating favorably. But i also skipped the blood moon plan
Knuckleblade shouldn't be ran with blood moon for obvious reasons but the card seems very good in modern. The card can even protect itself.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Rounds 1 & 2 where against budget'ish decks - so not much to say (Allies and Elves). Bolts and Snapcaster did their thing, and once Ancestral Vision resolved I was far ahead. These are the sort of games where card quality matters, and RUG definitely has card quality (I compare this to those times I played GW Hatebears, where you're favoured against all the Tier decks, but you struggle when your opponent just plays basics and big creatures). Anyway - the point is that the deck is good enough to beat the Tier 3/4 things that will present themselves in the early rounds - so that's a plus.
Round 3 was a nightmare round. I lost 2-1 in games against Knightfall, but in truth we didn't play Magic. I kept a slow hand in both Games 1 & 3 where I lost to pure beatdown (Game 3 I could've won had I mulliganed into a Bolt the Bird hand). Game 2 - he mulled to 4 and had just a colourless land for the first 4 to 5 turns. It did take me a while to actually get pressure on the board though. If there was a strike against this deck is that can end up not punishing your opponent for dodgy keeps.
Round 4 made up for Round 3's general non-interaction with a classic Control match-up. Opponent was on UWR. We traded spells all game and each resolved a single Ancestral Vision (despite both seeing most of our decks by the end of it). In the end the MVP was Vedalken Shackles and my 2 Mana Leak I had drawn late in the game when we both had all our fetchable lands in play. Ultimately those saved me from taking lethal burn before my Tarmogoyf finished him. Game 2 was a lot simpler, end of turn fight over Vendillion Clique (yes you may Path to Exile it with your last mana, after he had shown me how disloyal the Llurghoyf can be) into Turn 5 Blood Moon with 3 Islands and a Forest to ensure I could cast all my spells. His single Plains was not enough and ultimately the game was mine thanks to the Wolf token that remained after he dealt with Huntmaster.
So where to from here?
The deck is good, it has the right ingredients to succeed - not sure if it's Tier yet, but the signs are positive; it has game against random decks, it has a proactive plan, and it has the capability of getting free wins. The question really is - is it better than Blue Moon, Grixis or even Jund - I'm going to continue to play this while the meta figures itself out but those are it's benchmarks and if its just a worse version of one of those then I'll just be playing one of those.
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
Spells (24)
4 Ancestral Vision
1 Flame Slash
2 Spell Snare
3 Serum Visions
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mana Leak
2 Electrolyze
2 Vedalken Shackles
3 Cryptic Command
1 Breeding Pool
1 Mountain
2 Stomping Ground
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Forest
2 Steam Vents
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
7 Island
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Dispel
1 Spellskite
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Pyroclasm
1 Firespout
1 Thragtusk
1 Krosan Grip
1 Grim Lavamancer
2 Blood Moon
1 Counterflux
1 Negate
Ended up going 3-1 and taking second (also $40 which was nice). I beat WR Kiki-resto-sin prodder 2-1, lost to Cruel control 0-2, beat Kiki Chord 2-1 and beat UG infect 2-0.
I wish I could give a detailed report but I am exhausted and I don't fully remember how things played out. I will say that AV felt great, drawing 4 cards at the start of your turn felt broken. Out of the 11 games I played, I got to live the dream and Goblin Dark-Dwellers into Ancestral Vision 3 times. This deck had a really interesting feel. A lot of the times I felt like I was playing control, but at the same time dropping goyfs, with a touch of tempo. I ended a lot of games with bolt-snap-bolt, and one with GDD targeting an electrolyze.
The one matchup where I felt I really struggled was against Grixis cruel control. He had all the answers for the creature beat down and even though I was drawing tons of cards I could never get going. Huntmaster was nice, but it never really helped, just immediately ate removal. Maybe Arlinn Kord could be good. Anyway, very happy with the deck, small tweaks needed but the core felt really good.
So other cards I want to consider are Harvest Pyre and Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir. Harvest Pyre seems to be wanting to solve the issues that Twin used to have, and Teferi is just great against control which I felt that this deck struggled against.
I just started a league with my above list. I may have to pick up some TITIs to test.
Redirect just seems better since we play 10 blue sources and 9 fetches, at least 8 of which get blue. Swerve is harder with R which we only have 3-5 sources for.
The potential hate would really be cards like Tormod's Crypt or Relic of Progenitus as RUG doesn't have many exile or graveyard hate effects. I guess Grafdigger's Cage could also work well, but it kind of hurts our snaps and GDD.