Sultai Delirium is a deck that requires practice (like our older brothers JUND and ABZAN), I felt that if you had a little more affinity with the deck you could have managed to do 3-0 without many difficulties.
Do not get me wrong it's a great result 2-1, especially because you played the first time with the deck on paper and you managed to win BURN which is a bad match for us.
Anyway I repeat that was a great report, as I did not test the deck on paper, I still can not make a better assessment on Ishkanah, Grafwidow, as for Glen Elendra Archmage I think its persisting is very good simply for having a body 2/2 flying that can block 2x and still has a great ability of nagate that has value against several decks of the current meta, even those that are not combo decks.
To conclude, thank you man, it's great to see our deck kick ass of Death Shadow's Decks all the time, keep it up.
hello guy! first time posting in a forum!
Saw those list running around for sultai delirium and I wanted to try it out. Been a fan of B/G/X for the last year (still was a fan before, but I didn't have tarmogoyft before!:))
I tried the list in my FNM for the first time this last friday, went 3-1. Went to a event on wednesday and went 2-1
List fairly typical:
Creature:, 4 x tarmogoyf, 3 x jace, 1 x courser, 1 x tireless, 1 x eternal witness, 1 x kalitas, 1 x thragtusk, 1 x grave titan, 1 x glen elendra archamge, 3 x architects of will, 1 x scavenging ooze, 1 x shriekmaw
Spells: 4 x fatal push, 3 x thoughtseize, 3 x inquisition, 2 x abrupt decay, 3 x traverse, 1 dismember, 1 maelstrom pulse, 2 liliana last hope
and 22 lands.
Sideboard: I didn't have the time to complet it perfeclty but: 2 ceremonious rejection, 2 x disdainful stroke, 2 x collective brutallity, 1 x tooth collector, 1 x obstinate baloth, 2 x countersquall, 1 x mystice snake, 2 x grim flayer, 2 x nihil spellbomb
Honestly this deck is sweet!
For the FNM:
Game 1 was against Jund 2-0:
That guy is the sweetest guy to play against in my community, but event if he his been playing jund for a long time, he did a lot of misplay. I was screw on 2 land (had 2 abrupt decay) and he had two lili of the veil. He didn't play until my hand was lighter on cards,, but I dig for other stuff so i won pretty easily the first game. Second game went the same way. He discard cards with lili(event if he knew I had a baloth from my side board) he tried to protect it with tarmogoyf, but I had a removal so kill the tarmo, Drew my tarmo and the game was sceal.
Pretty fun, I think we can have the edge against jund, since jace bring so much value to the field.
Game 2 against Valakut: 2-1:
He stole the first game, lock him out, I had jace flipped and two tarmo on board ( they were only 2/3) He only played sorcery and land, and same for me. I dropped him to 1, he Drew on his turn scapeshift. Second game and third game were close, but I Drew well. I had thoughtseize, inquisition and counter spell each game. The last one i winned by minus lili into my mystic snake and 4 mana left. I had lethal next combat on my turn, since i counter his only spell he could play.
Except the first game he stole by the topdeck, game felt pretty close.
Game 3, against burn: 2-0:
same thing Drew well and played well! Manage to play safelety and discard his value cards (eidolon). He dropped me at 3 the first game, traverse for scaveging ooze and close the game quickly after ( i killed 4 creature and one of mine died). Second game same thing, went dust settle, i traverse for thragtusk. Honestly, playing against deck that won't mess up you graveyard, traverse is the bomb. I was playing jund prior to that and always felt against burn that i needed to topdeck well to win.
game 4: against abzan coco: 0-2:
He had an excellent hand against me for the first game ( 2 land, anafenza, 3 voice, 1 rallier). He beat me down just with the value he got on board. Second game was close, but I misplayed baddly, had jace flipped. Dismember by playing 3 mana to scavenging ooze ( he redirect to spellskite), (wanted to fatal push), but forgot he had 1 green left up, exil my fatal push and he won in the next few turn, since i didn't had the removal in hand (had an abrupt decay in the grevayard, should of paid 2 life and 2 mana and would of won!)
Again felt pretty close.
I wanted to play test this deck for the Montréal GP modern side event and honestly felt pretty confidant that this deck is viable. It is a blast to play. The only thing I didn't like was the sometime the delirium side. Traverse is honestly one the best cards in the deck, but if we messed up our graveyard, this is a dead card. I tought too that this deck doesnt have a lot of strong removal and what i mean by that is: against eldrazi and those kind of creature. We have maelstrom pulse, dismember and shriekmaw. I should tried to increase the number of «no restriction » removal. But their isn't a lot of choice.
The cards that I was really surprise were grave titan and glen elendra. Those two cards gave me game. Glen elendra against combo deck is a power house. Grave titan against grindy deck is just pure value. Wasn't a fan of eternal witness, would of like another cards honestly ( still good btw). Maybe murderus cut could do the trick, but we need our graveyard. We need too mass removal in our sideboard!
I feel this deck could be the next thing! fatal push helps out a lot. I honestly think I will switched from jund to sultai. Share your thought about that deck!
Hi guys
This deck seems pretty interesting.
I have some questions about it:
-Why not the full set of Mishra's bauble instead of 3?
-And what about primeval titan? I think is too underrated for what it does: can fetch utility lands, like bojuka bog in the side, and it's a big body out of everything except path and terminate.
What do you think?
How is prime time better than grave titan? We run only 3 utility lands. Grave titan/ishkanah give us a way to flood the board and they are great against the current removal that is being played in modern.
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On mtgsalvation people don't want to discuss ideas, so I give people something else to discuss: my controversial opinions.
I have been playing with a few Sultai Delirium lists online and really didn't like how inconsistent Traverse can be. I found myself wanting more Architects to help enable delirium. Instead I took a page from Sultai Death Shadow and Originally put 4and4 of Baubles and wraiths but I agree with the statement above. Playing for the late game and top decking a Bauble isn't as good as your 1-of Architects. Running 4 Street Wraiths have been great. Card is always super strong with Baubles but really helped my Traverse be a little more consistent early. Also running a 56 card deck at the cost of life loss is very under rated with Courser and Traverse.
Sideboard is put together a little quickly also I still really insist on 3 Surgical Extractions. Getting the chance to extract creatures with a cmc 5+ (tasigur/Gurmag) is really important in Sultai since we don't have many answers. Plus Combo
Can I ask if there is any room for Snapcaster Mage in this deck?
I've played with one in the deck before and it was useful. The downside to Jace is he has to survive a turn to flash anything back, but there are times you just need that spell in your yard now, which Snap is better for.
Can I ask if there is any room for Snapcaster Mage in this deck?
I've played with one in the deck before and it was useful. The downside to Jace is he has to survive a turn to flash anything back, but there are times you just need that spell in your yard now, which Snap is better for.
I believe that the space of the Snapcaster Mage on the deck is already filled by Jace, Vryn's Prodigy and I think for the deck proposal the jace is better overall.
Obviously there are times when the Snapcaster would shine on the deck but I believe the 3x Jace's and our beloved Eternal Witness are enough on the deck, but anyway the deck is brand new and tests are always welcome.
Oh, I absolutely agree that Jace is overall better for the deck, sorry for not being more clear!
I'm suggesting it's possible to cut another card (for me, it was Grave Titan) for a single Snapcaster as a Traverse target. While you can Traverse for Eternal Witness if you need removal, sometimes that extra mana does make a difference.
I would love to see how Jadoth won all those games.
I recently built the list on paper and versed my friends burn list and Grixis death shadow list. A lot of the matches feel like it's solely my fault if I lose and not the deck's. It seems like there are very critical plays that almost mean the difference between winning and losing when using this list.
I definitely think I need more practice with the list before making any judgement or thinking about alternative creatures to use.
I do have a couple questions though, to those who have piloted the deck a bit more than me:
Is there actually a way to consistently cast Emrakul?
I feel like on average Emrakul will cost about 8 mana and I definitely haven't had a game where I lived till that point.
How can I deal with delve creatures pre-board?
Tasigur and the fish consistently put me on a clock unless I am able to do some crazy deck shenanigans to make my goyfs big enough to deal with them.
Do I have to have an opening hand with at least 1 thoughtseize/inquisition to beat burn pre-board?
It seem's like everything else in this match-up is just too slow.
The deck is definitely complex and takes some time to learn. It's worth the effort imo.
Emrakul is in the deck for when the game goes long, and I find myself using Traverse to find her more than I originally thought I would. I consistently cast her for 7. She gets boarded out against fast decks.
Dismember and Maelstrom Pulse are the only spells that the stock list has to handle Delve threats. I've added a Liliana of the Veil to my list to deal with this problem, and she's been great. Other than that, making sure our Goyfs are 5/6 is our best option.
Having early hand disruption is definitely ideal in the burn matchup. A hand full of interaction and a large Goyf can also work wonders. I've been running a Thragtusk in the main, it's amazing what 5 life can do to a burn deck.
Grim Flayer is there for when we need to apply more pressure, for example combo decks and Tron. I haven't found him to be necessary, I think having something like Surgical Extraction is a better use of this slot.
I must be playing it wrong because I can't seem to get my games to go very long. How is this deck primarily stalling? I'm assuming the main goal early on is to get a goyf on the field and by trying to get delirium on as soon as possible. I guess you can essentially traverse twice if you have a jace out, which would make getting 7 lands to cast Emrakul a bit easier. I like your Surgical Extraction > Grim Flayer suggestion
Just like any other BGx deck does. Strip their hand, kill their creatures, and close the game. Just think of this deck as BG Rock with some spice added to it. Making sure you're taking the correct card when using Inquisition/Thoughtseize is super important.
It sounds like you're focusing too much on casting Emrakul. This is a proactive midrange shell, and she's simply there as an "oops, I win" card. You only want to Traverse for a land if you absolutely have to.
Your plan looks pretty spot on, though I'm not 100% sold on Surgical in the match up. Consider adding a Big Game Hunter to your SB if you're expecting to see a lot of Eldrazi/Shadow. I have added a Damnation to my sideboard to combat Eldrazi and go-wide decks.
I think at this atual meta our deck has a chance to make good results.
I was just referencing the recent change on the forum. I think the deck is awesome and very dangerous.
That being said, what are everybody's thoughts on Emrakul? I have seen some lists scrap her and use ishkanah, Grafwidow...Wondering what everybody else is doing?
I think immediately placing us in Tier 2 was a bit aggressive anyways. The deck is great regardless. I truly feel like it's one good card away from being on par with Junk/Jund, and it's already damn close if not better in some match ups.
I'm still playing Emrakul in the main since my meta is pretty grindy. If your meta is really fast I wouldn't play her in the 75. I could see playing Ishkanah, Grave Titan, or Thragtusk in her slot. That's a call for you to make.
I just grabbed 3 bauble's this weekend. Last thing to update are replacing 3 bloodstains mire with catacombs and misty rainforest. I think being able to play Emrakul is awesome, but I'm willing to try all of those suggestions. Grave Titan is super sweet too.
I think immediately placing us in Tier 2 was a bit aggressive anyways. The deck is great regardless. I truly feel like it's one good card away from being on par with Junk/Jund, and it's already damn close if not better in some match ups.
I'm still playing Emrakul in the main since my meta is pretty grindy. If your meta is really fast I wouldn't play her in the 75. I could see playing Ishkanah, Grave Titan, or Thragtusk in her slot. That's a call for you to make.
Interested in what you think the deck is missing? It's not that I disagree, I just want to know your thoughts as you're more experienced with the deck than I.
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Sultai Delirium is a deck that requires practice (like our older brothers JUND and ABZAN), I felt that if you had a little more affinity with the deck you could have managed to do 3-0 without many difficulties.
Do not get me wrong it's a great result 2-1, especially because you played the first time with the deck on paper and you managed to win BURN which is a bad match for us.
Anyway I repeat that was a great report, as I did not test the deck on paper, I still can not make a better assessment on Ishkanah, Grafwidow, as for Glen Elendra Archmage I think its persisting is very good simply for having a body 2/2 flying that can block 2x and still has a great ability of nagate that has value against several decks of the current meta, even those that are not combo decks.
To conclude, thank you man, it's great to see our deck kick ass of Death Shadow's Decks all the time, keep it up.
Saw those list running around for sultai delirium and I wanted to try it out. Been a fan of B/G/X for the last year (still was a fan before, but I didn't have tarmogoyft before!:))
I tried the list in my FNM for the first time this last friday, went 3-1. Went to a event on wednesday and went 2-1
List fairly typical:
Creature:, 4 x tarmogoyf, 3 x jace, 1 x courser, 1 x tireless, 1 x eternal witness, 1 x kalitas, 1 x thragtusk, 1 x grave titan, 1 x glen elendra archamge, 3 x architects of will, 1 x scavenging ooze, 1 x shriekmaw
Spells: 4 x fatal push, 3 x thoughtseize, 3 x inquisition, 2 x abrupt decay, 3 x traverse, 1 dismember, 1 maelstrom pulse, 2 liliana last hope
and 22 lands.
Sideboard: I didn't have the time to complet it perfeclty but: 2 ceremonious rejection, 2 x disdainful stroke, 2 x collective brutallity, 1 x tooth collector, 1 x obstinate baloth, 2 x countersquall, 1 x mystice snake, 2 x grim flayer, 2 x nihil spellbomb
Honestly this deck is sweet!
For the FNM:
Game 1 was against Jund 2-0:
That guy is the sweetest guy to play against in my community, but event if he his been playing jund for a long time, he did a lot of misplay. I was screw on 2 land (had 2 abrupt decay) and he had two lili of the veil. He didn't play until my hand was lighter on cards,, but I dig for other stuff so i won pretty easily the first game. Second game went the same way. He discard cards with lili(event if he knew I had a baloth from my side board) he tried to protect it with tarmogoyf, but I had a removal so kill the tarmo, Drew my tarmo and the game was sceal.
Pretty fun, I think we can have the edge against jund, since jace bring so much value to the field.
Game 2 against Valakut: 2-1:
He stole the first game, lock him out, I had jace flipped and two tarmo on board ( they were only 2/3) He only played sorcery and land, and same for me. I dropped him to 1, he Drew on his turn scapeshift. Second game and third game were close, but I Drew well. I had thoughtseize, inquisition and counter spell each game. The last one i winned by minus lili into my mystic snake and 4 mana left. I had lethal next combat on my turn, since i counter his only spell he could play.
Except the first game he stole by the topdeck, game felt pretty close.
Game 3, against burn: 2-0:
same thing Drew well and played well! Manage to play safelety and discard his value cards (eidolon). He dropped me at 3 the first game, traverse for scaveging ooze and close the game quickly after ( i killed 4 creature and one of mine died). Second game same thing, went dust settle, i traverse for thragtusk. Honestly, playing against deck that won't mess up you graveyard, traverse is the bomb. I was playing jund prior to that and always felt against burn that i needed to topdeck well to win.
game 4: against abzan coco: 0-2:
He had an excellent hand against me for the first game ( 2 land, anafenza, 3 voice, 1 rallier). He beat me down just with the value he got on board. Second game was close, but I misplayed baddly, had jace flipped. Dismember by playing 3 mana to scavenging ooze ( he redirect to spellskite), (wanted to fatal push), but forgot he had 1 green left up, exil my fatal push and he won in the next few turn, since i didn't had the removal in hand (had an abrupt decay in the grevayard, should of paid 2 life and 2 mana and would of won!)
Again felt pretty close.
I wanted to play test this deck for the Montréal GP modern side event and honestly felt pretty confidant that this deck is viable. It is a blast to play. The only thing I didn't like was the sometime the delirium side. Traverse is honestly one the best cards in the deck, but if we messed up our graveyard, this is a dead card. I tought too that this deck doesnt have a lot of strong removal and what i mean by that is: against eldrazi and those kind of creature. We have maelstrom pulse, dismember and shriekmaw. I should tried to increase the number of «no restriction » removal. But their isn't a lot of choice.
The cards that I was really surprise were grave titan and glen elendra. Those two cards gave me game. Glen elendra against combo deck is a power house. Grave titan against grindy deck is just pure value. Wasn't a fan of eternal witness, would of like another cards honestly ( still good btw). Maybe murderus cut could do the trick, but we need our graveyard. We need too mass removal in our sideboard!
I feel this deck could be the next thing! fatal push helps out a lot. I honestly think I will switched from jund to sultai. Share your thought about that deck!
How is prime time better than grave titan? We run only 3 utility lands. Grave titan/ishkanah give us a way to flood the board and they are great against the current removal that is being played in modern.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
I definitely agree with this. Costing one mana can slow you down a turn. But I think the 3/1 split is definitely correct.
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Street Wraith
3x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1x Courser of Kruphix
1x Tireless Tracker
1x ShriekMaw
1x Glen Elendra Archmage
1x Grave Titan
1x Architects of Will
Artifacts (3)+1
3x Mishra's Bauble
Sorcery (9)
4x Traverse the Ulvenwald
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Thoughtseize
Instant (7)
4x Fatal Push
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Dismember
2x Liliana of the Veil
Lands (22)
4x Blooming Marsh
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Polluted Delta
1x Misty Rainforest
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Breeding Pool
1x Watery Grave
1x Hinterland Harbor
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Creeping Tar pit
1x Forest
1x Swamp
1x Island
3x Surgical Extraction
2x Countersquall
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Fulminator Mage
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Flaying Tendrils
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1x Damnation
1x Thragtusk
I have been playing with a few Sultai Delirium lists online and really didn't like how inconsistent Traverse can be. I found myself wanting more Architects to help enable delirium. Instead I took a page from Sultai Death Shadow and Originally put 4and4 of Baubles and wraiths but I agree with the statement above. Playing for the late game and top decking a Bauble isn't as good as your 1-of Architects. Running 4 Street Wraiths have been great. Card is always super strong with Baubles but really helped my Traverse be a little more consistent early. Also running a 56 card deck at the cost of life loss is very under rated with Courser and Traverse.
Sideboard is put together a little quickly also I still really insist on 3 Surgical Extractions. Getting the chance to extract creatures with a cmc 5+ (tasigur/Gurmag) is really important in Sultai since we don't have many answers. Plus Combo
I believe that the space of the Snapcaster Mage on the deck is already filled by Jace, Vryn's Prodigy and I think for the deck proposal the jace is better overall.
Obviously there are times when the Snapcaster would shine on the deck but I believe the 3x Jace's and our beloved Eternal Witness are enough on the deck, but anyway the deck is brand new and tests are always welcome.
I'm suggesting it's possible to cut another card (for me, it was Grave Titan) for a single Snapcaster as a Traverse target. While you can Traverse for Eternal Witness if you need removal, sometimes that extra mana does make a difference.
I recently built the list on paper and versed my friends burn list and Grixis death shadow list. A lot of the matches feel like it's solely my fault if I lose and not the deck's. It seems like there are very critical plays that almost mean the difference between winning and losing when using this list.
I definitely think I need more practice with the list before making any judgement or thinking about alternative creatures to use.
I do have a couple questions though, to those who have piloted the deck a bit more than me:
Emrakul is in the deck for when the game goes long, and I find myself using Traverse to find her more than I originally thought I would. I consistently cast her for 7. She gets boarded out against fast decks.
Dismember and Maelstrom Pulse are the only spells that the stock list has to handle Delve threats. I've added a Liliana of the Veil to my list to deal with this problem, and she's been great. Other than that, making sure our Goyfs are 5/6 is our best option.
Having early hand disruption is definitely ideal in the burn matchup. A hand full of interaction and a large Goyf can also work wonders. I've been running a Thragtusk in the main, it's amazing what 5 life can do to a burn deck.
Grim Flayer is there for when we need to apply more pressure, for example combo decks and Tron. I haven't found him to be necessary, I think having something like Surgical Extraction is a better use of this slot.
BGX Midrange
URX Control
It sounds like you're focusing too much on casting Emrakul. This is a proactive midrange shell, and she's simply there as an "oops, I win" card. You only want to Traverse for a land if you absolutely have to.
BGX Midrange
URX Control
-IoK (3)
-Fatal Push (4)
+Fulminator Mage (2)
+Surgical Extraction (3)
+Phyrexian Revoker
+Thoughtseize
My current sideboard for reference:
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Thoughtseize
1 Tooth Collector
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Spellskite
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Big Game Hunter
1 Damnation
BGX Midrange
URX Control
Really ?
That's sucks
I think at this atual meta our deck has a chance to make good results.
I was just referencing the recent change on the forum. I think the deck is awesome and very dangerous.
That being said, what are everybody's thoughts on Emrakul? I have seen some lists scrap her and use ishkanah, Grafwidow...Wondering what everybody else is doing?
I'm still playing Emrakul in the main since my meta is pretty grindy. If your meta is really fast I wouldn't play her in the 75. I could see playing Ishkanah, Grave Titan, or Thragtusk in her slot. That's a call for you to make.
BGX Midrange
URX Control
Interested in what you think the deck is missing? It's not that I disagree, I just want to know your thoughts as you're more experienced with the deck than I.