In Legacy I've been experimenting with a shell lately using Jace, Vryn's Prodigy+Tracker's Instinct. It's working well, and now I'm curious about trying it in Modern.
Thinking about proxying this up and I wonder if anyone has played some games with a list like this, how did that go?
I notice some great standard staples and no Tarmogoyf, Budget? Looks like it has a great creature matchup, but what about the rest?
This deck differs slightly from his game VS Humans.
Revised the above idea a little more... basically, I've been playing with Tracker's Instincts a lot in Legacy lately alongside Jace VP and the two combo amazingly well, so I wanted to try taking that sort of shell to Modern. It's a very natural BUG build. I think TI has been overlooked in favor of Collected Company which requires a few more creatures. TI generates similar levels of value (albeit a little slower) but it also requires a lower creature count, and more importantly fuels GY spells. This makes delve+TI very synergistic, which puts you firmly into BUG territory.
Then I got to thinking about this a little more and thought it might be cool to add Azcanta. It also fuels delve if you can get a window to cast it, TI pushes the flip, and the back side both helps a deck be greedy on mana, and digs into even more CA. Most decks I've seen have tried to pair with Snapcaster, but Snapcaster generally wants a higher spell count than Jace does. So I have fewer flashback targets in here, but that's ok because you'll fill your GY with some between TI+Thought Scour+Azcanta. The odds are about 80% to hit on either TI or Azcanta uses, and then Grim Flayer can also come in and give you some triggers. There's also some excellent top deck control going on between Courser, Azcanta, Flayer, and Jace. Finally, you round things out with a few 5 drops that end the game.
So here's the list right now, it's currently 61 to make the numbers work, but I think 61 is better than 60 in this case between the dig and the fact that the 61st card is a land, which you need to make the colors work. It simply improves your chances of hitting anything relevant off either TI or Azcanta and the mana to cast those things.
Moved to the Deck Creation. With the new forum update this thread has fallen out of the "Established" criteria. If it puts up results then it can move back to the established section.
The thread might be feeling dead for sure, but I doubt the deck is. I'm rebuying into Modern and I have most of the pieces again, so I'm hoping to tinker with it more. I saw a guy at my LGS playing it with JtMS and he said the deck still felt strong. I think most players who are getting into BUG at the moment are playing with a non-traverse list, for the sheer power of 4 LotV + 3-4 JtMS.
So here's a question to get some conversation started again: how come we don't run Vampire Hexmage out of the board as tutorable planeswalker removal?
Thats actually a pretty sweet idea haha. I hadn't thought of that before.
I was looking at Turbo Depths and the idea just kind of struck me. I suppose the answer is we run enough Maelstrom Pulses and Abrupt Decays to not waste a SB slot? But, the strength of the deck lies in the idea that we can tutor the creature we want, when we need it, and as far as I know, there's no other creature that has that effect, so it seems like an idea worth exploring?
Long story short sultai is my favorite color combo but I was finishing abzan for modern, jtms got unbanned and here i am. To be honest, I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this but here we go.
Long story short sultai is my favorite color combo but I was finishing abzan for modern, jtms got unbanned and here i am. To be honest, I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this but here we go.
While I think your deck is a little bit different in the idea behind it compared to the delirium builds but there are many similarities. What are you looking for?
So here's a question to get some conversation started again: how come we don't run Vampire Hexmage out of the board as tutorable planeswalker removal?
Thats actually a pretty sweet idea haha. I hadn't thought of that before.
I was looking at Turbo Depths and the idea just kind of struck me. I suppose the answer is we run enough Maelstrom Pulses and Abrupt Decays to not waste a SB slot? But, the strength of the deck lies in the idea that we can tutor the creature we want, when we need it, and as far as I know, there's no other creature that has that effect, so it seems like an idea worth exploring?
Yeah I'm sure that's part of it. We also have cards like to the slaughter.
We have a lot of new tools for this deck since the last time people were posting. JTMS and maybe search for azcanta. Might make searching for those non creature bullets easier.
We have a lot of new tools for this deck since the last time people were posting. JTMS and maybe search for azcanta. Might make searching for those non creature bullets easier.
I can confirm that Search for Azcanta fits perfectly into the deck. We fill our yard very quickly and and it does major work once flipped. The only issue I've found with it post-board is balancing our creature to spell ratio, and making sure we have enough targets when we search. However, I believe Traverse is good enough just for the card selection aspect regardless. There's also some awkwardness if we bin a Traverse target, but Eternal Witness can help with that.
I'm also testing a single Jace the Mind Sculptor so I'll let you know how that goes. There's a lot of small synergies he has with the deck, so I think he'll be at home here, besides just being powerful in the first place. Depending on how your version of the deck is built though, our curve can be a little high, so I don't think running more than 1 or 2 is correct.
The thing I think I'm having most trouble with is the sideboard. What to take out but also just what to put in the board in the first place. Do we play more delirium things or just stick to the tried and true.
I wish I would have seen him stream with that list, if he ever did. He cut them from the 75 of his more recent SCG video with Brad Nelson, so I assume he doesn't believe they're good enough anymore, or at least not in this current meta. I'm curious to give the Scarab God a try after he rotates out of standard and his price tanks, but probably not before that.
Id just like to give an update. I'm having terrible luck with this deck. I can't ******* win lol. I haven't won a round in two weeks and I don't know how. This deck isn't bad.
I really like the playstyle, but it's a hard deck to master. I also have the feeling I don't have enough room for the cards I want to add. Thought Scour for instance. I'm trying to decide if the T1 hand disruption spells should go or not.
Also, i'm curious to see what others think of dropping the Mishra's Baubles alltogether and go the full playset of Walking Ballista. It does not cycle, it does not fix nor does it provide any information. BUT... it's better in every other way. It's reach, it's a manasink, it's great against agro decks, it's a far better topdeck and, most importantly, it's two types in the yard for free on the early turns that matter most.
Edit: Did a game with the Ballistas and I must say, Delirium online on T2 is nice and they provide a ton of utility. For now, they stay. Updated the list
I really like the playstyle, but it's a hard deck to master. I also have the feeling I don't have enough room for the cards I want to add.
This is how I've felt the past couple weeks trying to refine a list. There's such a large card pool of creature utility cards that I want to include, and distilling what's worth playing and what's too narrow is difficult. For example, the Vampire Hexmage idea I proposed is good for a very specific situation when you need to tutor planeswalker removal, but it doesn't feel like it has enough utility most of the time to be worthy of slot in the 75. Instead, it feels like you almost need to run mostly good cards that you'd like to tutor for, but if you happen to draw into them naturally at most points of the game, they'll be fine too. That's how I've started to think about the list, and I think it's helping.
I'd also like to add that I was very skeptical about Ishkanah in the maindeck at first. However, I've never cast her without Delirium, and she's actually the most tutored card in testing so far. There's a lot of decks that seem to be going wide faster than we can handle, and she helps stabilize better than Kalitas most of the time.
Edit: Did a game with the Ballistas and I must say, Delirium online on T2 is nice and they provide a ton of utility. For now, they stay.
That's an interesting idea to consider. As you continue to test it, let us know if it's still working out for you. It seems good, I'm just not prepared to drop the money on Ballistas, yet.
Anybody else thinks baby jace is lackluster when we play search in a removal heavy meta? I face a lot of grixis, jeskai and jund.
This is an example of a meta where you may use Jace to draw out your opponent's removal to help enable your delirium, or to make sure they don't have removal for the creature you really want to stick, like a Flayer or Goyf.
In that way, he can be similar to Dark Confidant in Jund, who is also extremely fragile, but generally a must-answer threat. In some matchups, you'll use Confidant to draw out removal so you can stick your Goyf. In other matchups, you'll do the opposite and let Goyf die so you can stick Confidant.
I could be totally off-base though, and maybe you just want Snapcaster instead?
I agree with your assessment of Jace, Vyrn's Prodigy. I wouldn't go lower than 2 in any list, at least not until I see something that would suggest otherwise.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
This is kinda what I'm thinking for a first pass
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Watery Grave
2 Breeding Pool
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Swamp
2 Dryad Arbor
4 Blooming Marsh
1 Walking Ballista
4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
4 Grim Flayer
3 Eternal Witness
2 Fulminator Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Gurmag Angler
2 Ishkanah, Grafwidow
Spells 18
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Rancor
3 Fatal Push
1 Abrupt Decay
4 Tracker's Instincts
2 Traverse the Ulvenwald
1 Simic Charm
1 Opt
1 Serum Visions
What do you think of these lists (the delirium list in particular).
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/36097_Sultai-In-Modern--Why-It-Hasn-t-Happened-And-Why-It-s-Going-To.html
Thinking about proxying this up and I wonder if anyone has played some games with a list like this, how did that go?
I notice some great standard staples and no Tarmogoyf, Budget? Looks like it has a great creature matchup, but what about the rest?
This deck differs slightly from his game VS Humans.
To me the list definately has potential to grow.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
Then I got to thinking about this a little more and thought it might be cool to add Azcanta. It also fuels delve if you can get a window to cast it, TI pushes the flip, and the back side both helps a deck be greedy on mana, and digs into even more CA. Most decks I've seen have tried to pair with Snapcaster, but Snapcaster generally wants a higher spell count than Jace does. So I have fewer flashback targets in here, but that's ok because you'll fill your GY with some between TI+Thought Scour+Azcanta. The odds are about 80% to hit on either TI or Azcanta uses, and then Grim Flayer can also come in and give you some triggers. There's also some excellent top deck control going on between Courser, Azcanta, Flayer, and Jace. Finally, you round things out with a few 5 drops that end the game.
So here's the list right now, it's currently 61 to make the numbers work, but I think 61 is better than 60 in this case between the dig and the fact that the 61st card is a land, which you need to make the colors work. It simply improves your chances of hitting anything relevant off either TI or Azcanta and the mana to cast those things.
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Watery Grave
1 Breeding Pool
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Swamp
3 Blooming Marsh
1 Darkslick Shores
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thought Scour
2 Thoughtseize
1 Murderous Cut
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Collective Brutality
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Search for Azcanta
1 Rancor
4 Tracker's Instincts
2 Walking Ballista
4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
4 Grim Flayer
1 Courser of Kruphix
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Eternal Witness
1 Shriekmaw
1 Ishkanah, Grafwidow
1 The Scarab God
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Gurmag Angler
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
Thats actually a pretty sweet idea haha. I hadn't thought of that before.
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Watery Grave
1 Breeding Pool
3 Blooming Marsh
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Swamp
1 Island
1 Forest
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
Creatures
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
3 Grim Flayer
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Sorcery
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Collective Brutality
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Fatal Push
2 Stubborn Denial
2 Abrupt Decay
Artifact
4 Mishra's Bauble
Enchantment
2 Search for Azcanta
While I think your deck is a little bit different in the idea behind it compared to the delirium builds but there are many similarities. What are you looking for?
Yeah I'm sure that's part of it. We also have cards like to the slaughter.
We have a lot of new tools for this deck since the last time people were posting. JTMS and maybe search for azcanta. Might make searching for those non creature bullets easier.
I'm also testing a single Jace the Mind Sculptor so I'll let you know how that goes. There's a lot of small synergies he has with the deck, so I think he'll be at home here, besides just being powerful in the first place. Depending on how your version of the deck is built though, our curve can be a little high, so I don't think running more than 1 or 2 is correct.
I saw you were trying The Scarab God in your maindeck – how did you like him?
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Island
3 Blooming Marsh
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Breeding Pool
1 Watery Grave
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Ghost Quarter
Creatures
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Grim Flayer
2 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
4 Walking Ballista
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Shriekmaw
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Ishkanah, Grafwidow
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
4 Fatal Push
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Search for Azcanta
1 Maelstrom Pulse
Planeswalker
2 Liliana, The last Hope
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Collective Brutality
2 Countersquall
1 Vampire Hexmage
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Big Game Hunter
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Hostage Taker
1 Thrun, The last Troll
I really like the playstyle, but it's a hard deck to master. I also have the feeling I don't have enough room for the cards I want to add. Thought Scour for instance. I'm trying to decide if the T1 hand disruption spells should go or not.
Also, i'm curious to see what others think of dropping the Mishra's Baubles alltogether and go the full playset of Walking Ballista. It does not cycle, it does not fix nor does it provide any information. BUT... it's better in every other way. It's reach, it's a manasink, it's great against agro decks, it's a far better topdeck and, most importantly, it's two types in the yard for free on the early turns that matter most.
Edit: Did a game with the Ballistas and I must say, Delirium online on T2 is nice and they provide a ton of utility. For now, they stay.
Updated the list
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
Here's what I'm currently testing:
2x Blooming Marsh
1x Breeding Pool
1x Creeping Tar Pit
2x Darkslick Shores
2x Forest
1x Island
3x Misty Rainforest
2x Overgrown Tomb
4x Polluted Delta
2x Swamp
1x Treetop Village
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Watery Grave
Instant (6)
2x Abrupt Decay
4x Fatal Push
Creature (13)
1x Courser of Kruphix
1x Eternal Witness
3x Grim Flayer
1x Ishkanah, Grafwidow
3x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Shriekmaw
1x Tireless Tracker
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Thoughtseize
4x Traverse the Ulvenwald
Planeswalker (2)
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
Enchantment (2)
2x Search for Azcanta
Artifact (3)
3x Mishra's Bauble
2x Collective Brutality
1x Damnation
1x Dismember
2x Nihil Spellbomb
2x Ceremonious Rejection
2x Negate
1x Dispel
1x Fulminator Mage
1x Grave Titan
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Vendilion Clique
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
In that way, he can be similar to Dark Confidant in Jund, who is also extremely fragile, but generally a must-answer threat. In some matchups, you'll use Confidant to draw out removal so you can stick your Goyf. In other matchups, you'll do the opposite and let Goyf die so you can stick Confidant.
I could be totally off-base though, and maybe you just want Snapcaster instead?