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Introduction
Four-Color Control is a control deck that can shift gears easily. In the early game, it plays draw-go and denies the opponent's ressources. Eventually, it pulls ahead with spells like Think Twice, Snapcaster Mage and Sphinx's Revelation. Finally, during the late game, it overuns the opponent with Lingering Souls and wins with burn spells such as Lightning Bolt or with Celestial Colonnade.
Origins and decklists
Popularized by Travis Perlee and Jonathan Sukenik, Four-Color Control in an archetype that has made some notable appearances in large tournaments, notably placing 4th at SCG Modern Open Baltimore (2015-02-28), being showcased at GP Indianapolis (2016-08-28) and being in the finals of SCG Modern Classic Baltimore (28-05-2017) :
Mana Leak
There's not much to say about the card. It's the staple 2 mana counter that you're happy to play 2-3 of. Better in the early stages than in late game.
Remand
It's a very powerful card, but it's not the best in this deck. As this deck can't win very fast, you can't utilize the tempo it provides. But it is amazing versus flash back and suspend spells. So you can sometimes play a miser's copy.
Cryptic Command
One of the best cards in the deck. It can save you from a lot of bad situations. It's great card advantage so you want to play 3 or 4 in your deck. If you get a bunch of them in your hand, it can be pretty bad, so that's why some people play 3.
Spell Snare
It's a really good card in the format against Tarmogoyf, Cranial Plating, etc.. This is a great answer to Voice of Resurgence for example, and a great card when you're on the draw. It hits a lot of relevant cards in the format.
Lightning Bolt
It's usually a 4 of, but it's not that great vs combo, so that's why you see some lists with 3. It's one of the best removal spells in the format, that also helps you finish off the opponent. It also helps you deal with planeswalkers also.
Lightning Helix
It's a great anti-aggro card, and can help you stay above 18 life vs Scapeshift decks. It's very meta dependent so there's no set number of how many you should play.
Electrolyze
There are a lot of 1-2 toughness creatures in the format. So this card is insane. It also cycles so you can slowly burn out a combo/control opponent. It's a 0-3 of since it's not that great against creatureless decks.
Shadow of Doubt
It's one of your best ways to beat Scapeshift decks. It helps against Tron decks and it can occasionally hit a fetch land to ensure Mana Leak's efficiency. You can also chain it together with Path to Exile, so your opponent does not get a free land.
Think Twice
It helps you hit land drops. It lets you hold up counter mana without getting punished. It's card advantage. It's your best card to discard against Liliana of the Veil. It helps the deck work. You want 2-4 of these.
Sphinx's Revelation
It's secretly a finisher card. If you resolve this for 4+, then you should be a huge favorite to win. The life gain on gives you 1-3 time walks.
Kolaghan's Command
A great answer to most of the field with Raise Dead and discard being the most frequent modes (destroy target artifact is also good)
Among others:
Snapcaster Mage
Every deck list should have this card. It can provide card advantage, or let you beat down early in the game to put a clock on the opponent. It also lets you play a ton of spells (reactive cards) and singletons. It doesn't matter if the opponent kills it, as you probably got value from it. The real question is how many do you play? Play 4.
Ajani Vengeant
This card is great versus aggro decks since it will kill a creature and gain life.
Among others:
Wear//Tear
Replaces Disenchant as it can potentially get a 2 for 1. You normally only want 1 of this effect in your sideboard, as it's not inherently powerful.
Counterflux
Great vs combo and control. You want 1-2 of this card
[deck] Celestial Purge
It is a great card versus Jund and it's fine against red based aggro decks.
Spellskite
It's an all around great card versus a lot of strategies like Burn, Infect, Bogle, etc.
Negate/Dispel
Cheap counters you can bring in vs combo and control. Dispel is pretty narrow, so most lists don't have it. But you normally want at least 1 of these cards.
Rest in Peace
Great versus Storm, Living End, Reanimator, etc.
Stony Silence
Decent versus Tron and Affinity decks.
Timely Reinforcements
Good against aggro. Though the deck is built to be good against aggro so you don't really need this card. But if you're not playing Lightning Helix main, you probably want it in the sideboard.
Surgical Extraction
A really good card with Snapcaster Mage. And it's obviously good versus graveyard strategies, or a way to mise against combo opponents by removing Scapeshift, Tron land, etc... However if this is your only form of graveyard hate, you're going to have problems with Tarmogoyfs.
Vendilion Clique
Good card versus combo and control. You probably want at least 1 of these. As opponents will side out removal versus you.
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
Another good card versus control and some combo decks. It turns off all the opponents counter spells.
Matchups
Dredge:
- 1 Lightning Helix, -2 Mana Leak
+ 2 Anger of the Gods. + 1 Celestial Purge
Ad Nauseum:
- 2 Path to Exile, - 1 Sphinx's Revelation
+ 2 Dispel, + 1 Negate
Infect:
-2 Mana Leak, -2 Cryptic Command
+ 1 Negate, + 2 Anger of the Gods, + 1 Timely Reinforcements
Conclusion
Be it Jeskai splashing black, Esper flirting with red or Grixis adding white, Four-Color control has all the needed tools to face a diversified field, griding its way to victory.
I've been thinking about 4c control a bit recently, mainly because I was reminded of the pillar of the paruns and reflecting pool interaction.
You could overload on multicolored spells, fill in the cracks with the normal stuff (bolt, push, path, snap, etc) and have a four color goodstuff deck.
I've been contemplating a 5-Color Control deck using that kind of manabase + Vivid Creek type of lands, but that was way too clunky. 4-Color goodstuff is viable with the manabase you suggested, but so far, the 25 lands manabase I use is pretty solid and I might only change -1 Blood Crypt for +1 Godless Shrine.
It feels really smooth and I can get access to colors in any situation, even under Blood Moon (enough basics to cast it). The lifeloss from shocking and fetching is important, but thanks to Lightning Helix, Ajani Vengeant and Sphinx's Revelation, it stabilizes at some point (turn 5 to 8).
The deck is a blast to play because of having access to so much value : the only tricky part is really how to land drop correctly. It's a hard deck to pilot also, but very rewarding!
Last 3 matches where against Death's Shadow Grixis -
1. Lost 2-1 - Last game was super tight and came down to topdecks. He topped a Stubs for my flashbacked teachings and then he topped an Angler and I topped 2 lands and that's all she wrote.
2. Lost 2-0 - Game 1 took a 1 lander with draw spells and removal. Missed a couple land drops and held on pretty well but eventually lost. Game 2 took a 6 lander with a draw spell since I didn't want to get screwed again. Ended up topping 4-5 lands while my opponent had double Death's Shadow in play. Awkward match.
3. Won 2-1 - Felt like I was comfortable but uncomfortable at the same time. Probably could of took this 2-0 if my opponent didn't draw his outs in game 2.
I feel the scariest play Grixis Shadow can make is an early Delve threat backed by Stubborn Denial. Just being out-tempo'd hard with lack of Path/Snaps in hand, otherwise I feel they gas out when you stabilise. Feels like a swingy match up.
I didn't sideboard anything. Don't know if I should bring in some grave hate? Either pinpoint extraction effects or hard yard hosers like Ravenous Trap? Not sure. Thinking Consume the Meek could be cut for this but CtM flashbacked with Gearhulk did wipe out a Death's Shadow which was nice.
EDIT: Tom, you're cutting K-Command from your recent list? That cards insane in Modern, what's your reasoning?
DOUBLE EDIT: I see Travis has cut his previous utility slot of 1 Mystical Teachings for 1 Gifts Ungiven. What'ss he tutors for? [Snap, Tas, Souls, K-Command]?
Nice list, it seems to me that you crafted the manabase very well : to me, it's the worst part of our 4-Color deck (not the nicest manabase, needing to sequence correctly the landrops to minimize lifeloss, etc.). Maindeck is very original also, I like most of it. I understand that you really want to play a pure instant speed deck, the reason why there's not a single sorcery speed card in that 75
However, I'd need some clarifications about some choices :
1) 2 Mana Tithe seems like for Blood Moon on turn 3 on the draw with only 2 lands in play for you, am I correct? In the late game, it seems lacklusting though, so how is it performing after turn 5?
2) Maindeck Blessed Alliance, why? For Dredge?
3) 1 Mindbreak Trap is for Storm right? Isn't it pretty much dead against the aggro field, so you teach for it when needed after stalling against Storm?
4) Consume the Meek seems weak to me : I'd like to know the reasoning behind a 5CMC sweeper please!
5) Isn't Cast Out too mana consuming? I know that Detention Sphere is not flash and everything should have flash, but I just want to know how it performed.
In regards to your matchups, DS is though, but not unwinnable. Having Lingering Souls is the best card out there to deal with it and that's why I feel I have a decent matchup against it. It's hard to stall the board, but even through discard and some counterspells, I'm able to play it down. Being manascrewed is not great either :s
I cut K-Command to replace it for Electrolyze. I'm dealing a lot with pesky creatures and discard hasn't been very effective : dealing to damage is equal on both sides, the only upside is raising dead a Snapcaster Mage. I prefer however to draw a card instead that bringing it back because of Think Twice power and the tutors in the deck.
Be it Jeskai splashing black, Esper flirting with red or Grixis adding white, Four-Color control has all the needed tools to face a diversified field, griding its way to victory.
Or...Mardu blue I guess?
Jokes aside I've been testing this deck and it feels like it has a lot of potential. Gifts Ungiven is an awesome card advantage engine, and I find myself tutoring for Souls, Snapcaster, Kolaghan's Command and Tasigur. What match-ups do you think may be on the tougher side?
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Be it Jeskai splashing black, Esper flirting with red or Grixis adding white, Four-Color control has all the needed tools to face a diversified field, griding its way to victory.
Or...Mardu blue I guess?
Jokes aside I've been testing this deck and it feels like it has a lot of potential. Gifts Ungiven is an awesome card advantage engine, and I find myself tutoring for Souls, Snapcaster, Kolaghan's Command and Tasigur. What match-ups do you think may be on the tougher side?
Anything with Blood Moon, fast aggro decks such as Zoo, Affinity and degenerate decks with lots of mana such as RG Tron. The deck is in great shpae against Death's Shadow, Burn also is ok, Collected Company is fine and UW Control and tempo strategies are manageable. Against combo also, we're good (Scapeshift, Storm). Ad Nauseam is tricky though
I'm pretty sold on this list now and your questions above influenced some of my decisions. I'll start by saying my philosophy on Control is vastly different from majority of people. I don't see control as a meta game deck. The way I see control is a deck that can work regardless of the meta, by having an answer to everything that may come my way. And to do that, I need to literally have an answer to everything which is why my deck is built the way it is. So with that out of the way, I'll try to answers your questions.
1. Mana Tithe - Very good in testing so far. Primarily in there for non-creature threats like Moon, Stone Rain, Karn, Lilly, Bitterblossom etc that may get under a standard 2mc counter. Yes it is dead late game, but I usually discard down to hand size and if I draw this late, it's not too terrible since teachings can get me back in the game instantly. Am now playing Spell Pierce instead since after reviewing the role of the 1 mana counterspell, I realise that it's mainly for the early non-creature stuff and Pierce is a house for that while also staying "somewhat" relevant late game, similar to Mana Leak but for non-creature. 2 copies has been good for me in testing and feel it is an important card to protect against rogue Blood Moons which can be sided in from Zoo, Affinity and Delver.
2. Blessed Alliance - This goes back to my deck-building philosophy of having an answer to anything. It's the only answer for Bogles which is notorious for destroying interactive control decks. Life gain is relevant too against Burn and also hits problems like Thrun, Stormbreath, Geist and Gae's Revenge that rip Control too. I've now gone down to 1 copy after you questioning this card and am happy sitting at 1.
3. Mindbreak Trap - Again, my philosophy. Without this card I cannot counter the Storm Mechanic. I cannot counter a hard cast Emrakul or uncounterable spells like Slaughter Games orCavern of Souls naming Iona, Shield of Emeria. I replaced my 3rd Cryptic with this card since UR Storm is a popular deck and can go off on turn 3, and the only thing that can save me if that happens is this card.
4. Consume the Meek is one of those cards that look a lot worse than it plays. Unfortunately, it's the only instant speed sweeper that is playable as Hideous Laughter and Kozilek's Return are too weak and Retaliate and Fated Retribution are unplayable. CtM is good, but has me more dedicated to a heavier B mana base than I'd like. Enter Scuttle the Wreckage. The new Ixalan spoilers provided a Godsend in the 2WW ]instant speed sweeper department in Wreckage. This new sweeper exiles all attacking creatures which gets around hexproof, dredge and creature swarms as well as Sigarda, Host of Herons. This card is going to replace CtM for me when it's live and will be a solid 1-of teachings target. I'm feeling really hyped for this card!
5. Cast Out - Very powerful in testing. 75% of the time, I'm cycling this for W which is excellent against every deck out there. When I'm not cycling this, it's a bullet that I can come from behind against something like a Karn or Nahiri that resolved, tutor this and instant speed O-Ring them. Highly recommend this card, is a perfect fit for draw-go.
New additions for me are :
1 Disallow for an answer to triggers, activated abilities (which I currently cannot answer) and Emrakul, the Promised End Delirium decks.
1 Murderous Cut instead of the 4th Path to Exile. Path has boned me so many times against fast aggro by ramping them, true story. That's why I prefer 4 bolt to 4 path but Path still is the best at what it does so I can't go lower than 3. I decided to play a singleton Murderous Cut instead of the 4th Path as a hedge against Iona, Shield of Emeria naming white, a hedge against a resolved Chalice of the Void X=1 and for pro white stuff like Stormbreath Dragon. Pretty happy with this split.
4 Snapcaster Mage / 0 Torrential Gearhulk - While Gearhulk is awesome, in testing I'm finding the best thing ever against hyper aggro is Bolt/Snap/Bolt because it's just so efficient and fights on aggro's wavelength. I just can't justify playing less than 4 Snaps and 4 Bolts just for the reason that hyper aggro exists. Gearhulk is just too slow against aggro so I cut 1 Gearhulk for the 4th Snap.
Celestial Colonnade Heavier White Mana Base for when Scuttle the Wreckage goes live - Replaced Tar Pits with Colonnades to hit my W sources for the new sweeper which I think is just what this deck needs. Positive side effect of this is that Colonnade being a 4/4 is just as beefy as Gearhulk since they both dodge Bolt which makes cutting Gearhulk for the 4th Snap a much easier decision.
Sideboard decisions I cut 1 Voidmage Husher since I'm playing Disallow main for the same thing. Added Hide // Seek for a library disruption effect since I've come across 2 Emrakul Delirium builds lately online and an uncounterable Mindslaver effect is more inevitable than anything I can do so Hide/Seek can help stop this while adding to Artifact/Enchantment hate which is always welcome in addition to grave hate. Can be sided in vs Burn to gain 3 life off a Rift Bolt. Also added Crypt Incursion which gained me 15 life against Burn which was pretty dope. It's mainly in there for Dredge/Dredgevine decks though.
So far I'm pretty happy with this build, my curve is quite low for 26 land control deck, only 11-13 cards over 2cmc depending on how you cast Murd Cut or Cast Out for. I'm also not over-indulging in any specific CMC. By that I mean I have a personal cap off of the number "12" in my CMC slots and am in the green zone from 0-7 CMC cards which I personally feel good about it. Just holding out for that new sweeper, I cannot wait!
RE your list: Yea I can get behind Electrolyze it's a beautiful card, especially the Promo version and I myself do prefer Electrolyze more than K-Command. I just feel K-Command plays better with my own personal philosophy of having an answer to everything like the popular Chalice, Batterskull, Shackles, Bridge that I can't stop with Electrolyze. Other than that, I'd most definitely be on Electrolyze since it is such a strong card against Lingering Souls which is an important tool to have in the arsenal.
How's the deck against Eldrazi (Tron or Bant)? Also do you think it's possible to make a 4-color build with Naihiri as the win-con or is that just putting too much stress on the deck?
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How's the deck against Eldrazi (Tron or Bant)? Also do you think it's possible to make a 4-color build with Naihiri as the win-con or is that just putting too much stress on the deck?
Nahiri is really a strain for the deck, not only because of Emrakul, but because also there's no need for her in a 4-Color decks I think. For me, the idea of such a deck is to combine the powerful elements of four different colors and take the best card out of it. For example, in BR, you might probably want K-Command for your 3 CMC spot (I don't, I prefer Electrolyze, but it's another point). Then, Nahiri works well in Boros or Jeskai, but we don't need her for closing out games. We're one of the most interactive deck out there and we want to make the most of it by having different axis of attack : burn spells, Lingering Souls, man lands, Secure the Wastes, planeswalkers, etc.
I'm pretty sold on this list now and your questions above influenced some of my decisions. I'll start by saying my philosophy on Control is vastly different from majority of people. I don't see control as a meta game deck. The way I see control is a deck that can work regardless of the meta, by having an answer to everything that may come my way. And to do that, I need to literally have an answer to everything which is why my deck is built the way it is. So with that out of the way, I'll try to answers your questions.
1. Mana Tithe - Very good in testing so far. Primarily in there for non-creature threats like Moon, Stone Rain, Karn, Lilly, Bitterblossom etc that may get under a standard 2mc counter. Yes it is dead late game, but I usually discard down to hand size and if I draw this late, it's not too terrible since teachings can get me back in the game instantly. Am now playing Spell Pierce instead since after reviewing the role of the 1 mana counterspell, I realise that it's mainly for the early non-creature stuff and Pierce is a house for that while also staying "somewhat" relevant late game, similar to Mana Leak but for non-creature. 2 copies has been good for me in testing and feel it is an important card to protect against rogue Blood Moons which can be sided in from Zoo, Affinity and Delver.
2. Blessed Alliance - This goes back to my deck-building philosophy of having an answer to anything. It's the only answer for Bogles which is notorious for destroying interactive control decks. Life gain is relevant too against Burn and also hits problems like Thrun, Stormbreath, Geist and Gae's Revenge that rip Control too. I've now gone down to 1 copy after you questioning this card and am happy sitting at 1.
3. Mindbreak Trap - Again, my philosophy. Without this card I cannot counter the Storm Mechanic. I cannot counter a hard cast Emrakul or uncounterable spells like Slaughter Games orCavern of Souls naming Iona, Shield of Emeria. I replaced my 3rd Cryptic with this card since UR Storm is a popular deck and can go off on turn 3, and the only thing that can save me if that happens is this card.
4. Consume the Meek is one of those cards that look a lot worse than it plays. Unfortunately, it's the only instant speed sweeper that is playable as Hideous Laughter and Kozilek's Return are too weak and Retaliate and Fated Retribution are unplayable. CtM is good, but has me more dedicated to a heavier B mana base than I'd like. Enter Scuttle the Wreckage. The new Ixalan spoilers provided a Godsend in the 2WW ]instant speed sweeper department in Wreckage. This new sweeper exiles all attacking creatures which gets around hexproof, dredge and creature swarms as well as Sigarda, Host of Herons. This card is going to replace CtM for me when it's live and will be a solid 1-of teachings target. I'm feeling really hyped for this card!
5. Cast Out - Very powerful in testing. 75% of the time, I'm cycling this for W which is excellent against every deck out there. When I'm not cycling this, it's a bullet that I can come from behind against something like a Karn or Nahiri that resolved, tutor this and instant speed O-Ring them. Highly recommend this card, is a perfect fit for draw-go.
New additions for me are :
1 Disallow for an answer to triggers, activated abilities (which I currently cannot answer) and Emrakul, the Promised End Delirium decks.
1 Murderous Cut instead of the 4th Path to Exile. Path has boned me so many times against fast aggro by ramping them, true story. That's why I prefer 4 bolt to 4 path but Path still is the best at what it does so I can't go lower than 3. I decided to play a singleton Murderous Cut instead of the 4th Path as a hedge against Iona, Shield of Emeria naming white, a hedge against a resolved Chalice of the Void X=1 and for pro white stuff like Stormbreath Dragon. Pretty happy with this split.
4 Snapcaster Mage / 0 Torrential Gearhulk - While Gearhulk is awesome, in testing I'm finding the best thing ever against hyper aggro is Bolt/Snap/Bolt because it's just so efficient and fights on aggro's wavelength. I just can't justify playing less than 4 Snaps and 4 Bolts just for the reason that hyper aggro exists. Gearhulk is just too slow against aggro so I cut 1 Gearhulk for the 4th Snap.
Celestial Colonnade Heavier White Mana Base for when Scuttle the Wreckage goes live - Replaced Tar Pits with Colonnades to hit my W sources for the new sweeper which I think is just what this deck needs. Positive side effect of this is that Colonnade being a 4/4 is just as beefy as Gearhulk since they both dodge Bolt which makes cutting Gearhulk for the 4th Snap a much easier decision.
Sideboard decisions I cut 1 Voidmage Husher since I'm playing Disallow main for the same thing. Added Hide // Seek for a library disruption effect since I've come across 2 Emrakul Delirium builds lately online and an uncounterable Mindslaver effect is more inevitable than anything I can do so Hide/Seek can help stop this while adding to Artifact/Enchantment hate which is always welcome in addition to grave hate. Can be sided in vs Burn to gain 3 life off a Rift Bolt. Also added Crypt Incursion which gained me 15 life against Burn which was pretty dope. It's mainly in there for Dredge/Dredgevine decks though.
So far I'm pretty happy with this build, my curve is quite low for 26 land control deck, only 11-13 cards over 2cmc depending on how you cast Murd Cut or Cast Out for. I'm also not over-indulging in any specific CMC. By that I mean I have a personal cap off of the number "12" in my CMC slots and am in the green zone from 0-7 CMC cards which I personally feel good about it. Just holding out for that new sweeper, I cannot wait!
RE your list: Yea I can get behind Electrolyze it's a beautiful card, especially the Promo version and I myself do prefer Electrolyze more than K-Command. I just feel K-Command plays better with my own personal philosophy of having an answer to everything like the popular Chalice, Batterskull, Shackles, Bridge that I can't stop with Electrolyze. Other than that, I'd most definitely be on Electrolyze since it is such a strong card against Lingering Souls which is an important tool to have in the arsenal.
Glad to see you back on the thread Beer! No worries about the computer issues, we all have
Thanks so much for such a detailed answer. I'm really glad to see some changes to your list as now, it seems more consistent to me (especially the manabase). I understand you philosophy of control as being proactive and having an answer for everything that's possibly out there. I think it's a great way to think, but at the same time, I also think that's hard to achieve with efficiency and consistency. There are so many situations where some cards work wonders, but in some others, they are average. I tend to go for cards that can be effective while be efficient in a large pool of situations in order to maximize the chances I have to make the most out of them.
1) I'm glad to see Spell Pierce in the mainboard as it makes more sense to me and is a better card than Mana Tithe in my opinion. Goes well with the way you approach control also. I'd prefer to see some hard counters (I'm not sold on cards with ''opponent pays X'' other than Logic Knot, but that's personal preference I guess).
2) So glad to see that Consume the Meek is gone. It was too much of a strain for my taste CMC wise and on the manabase. What about some more sweepers? I feel we need at least 2-3 sweepers mainboard to be really effective.
3) What's Scuttle the Wreckage? I haven't seen that card anywhere and I haven't found it on internet... Is it a new one from HOU?
4) I'd still cut Mindbreak Trap mainboard because it's too narrow. I'd move it to the side because with it during game 2-3, you'll be golden for sure. Same thing with Blessed Alliance against Dredge. Same thing for Surgical Extraction. That's just for more consistency. I'd swing in 3 copies of one card that can be awesome : Lingering Souls.
To me, the way 4-Color wins is by shifting gears : we can sit back and take it easy, but we can also be proactive from turn 1 Bolt, turn 2 Helix, turn Lingering Souls, turn 5 Secure the Wastes and turn 6 Colonnade. We can be an agressive deck without any issue and that's essential in the current meta.
Looking forward to see how you tweak the deck my friend
1. I've actually switched Pierce to Snare now. While pierce is nice, I think snare works a bit better with my list after more testing. I've added a singleton Negate to compliment the 2 snares.
2. I agree. A legitimate flaw in my list after testing was that I was very weak to Lingering Souls and swarms like Elves after cutting CtM. I've now rectified this by adding Kozilek's Return. I've also added Secure the Wastes to help "cancel out" opposing Souls tokens. I feel safer against wide decks with this change.
3. If you google Ixalan spoiler leaks you may be able to find the sweeper I'm talking about. The release day is around September-October I think which is a little while away. I'm playing a Retaliate currently until that new sweeper comes out. Just want to get the deck setup as a UW deck with RB splash and Retaliate gets me used to the WW cost. But boy, Retaliate is a bad card lol. All for testing purposes since I've seen the spoilers.
4. I'm 4 from 6 vs Storm and Mindbreak Trap has won me many games. It's really just Cryptic Command #3 so it's not terribly narrow IMO as it is still a stock counter. The exile is relevant against Cavern of Souls Eldrazi too. It's also free of Mystical Teachings vs Storm so I'm technically playing 4 copies in that match up. If I were to cut it, I'd add another Cryptic but I find Mindbreak Trap to be significantly better in at least 3 T1 match ups.
Blessed Alliance is important since an 8/7 fetch/shock mana base can add up. This card is somewhat of a win condition against Burn in my testing. BA/snap/BA for 8 life usually wins it. Also, it lets me beat Bogles. Without this card, I'm not beating Bogles and I don't like that so it stays in for that reason.
Surgical Extraction allows me a chance to win vs Loam Pox and Dredge decks. Without Surgical Extraction in the main, I auto-scoop game 1 and that's not my style. Playing 3 copies of Mystical Teachings allows me to justify playing more "narrow" cards like these. But tbh, these cards aren't exactly narrow in this meta, I mean, Skred did win a GP packing 3-4 copies of grave hate in the main.
While Lingering Souls is a broken magic card, it unfortunately doesn't solve any of the issues that those bullet type cards solve. It also is a Sorcery which fails to make my deck just because of the card type. I am now playing Secure the Wastes which is the closest, playable card to Lingering Souls that can fit my deck construction so I can kind of meet you halfway there
Good to see the evolution of your decklist! I saw the card on the spoilers and the drawback of giving away so many basic lands seems important to me : how do you plan dealing with that?
Otherwise, it's coming along : I'll update the list and if you might want to contribute to the primer also, just pm me
Good to see the evolution of your decklist! I saw the card on the spoilers and the drawback of giving away so many basic lands seems important to me : how do you plan dealing with that?
Otherwise, it's coming along : I'll update the list and if you might want to contribute to the primer also, just pm me
If I think of anything when I get the time I'll PM ya but for now I think the primer is good and you've definitely done your homework with links to Travis and Jonathan's decks.
The new sweeper looks like a snap-include in all-out teachings lists like mine just because it's the only playable unconditional instant speed sweeper we have access to. In more classical control lists, I'd probably still stick with Supreme Verdict and only really look at adding this as a singleton if wanting to gain points in the Dredge match up. Will have to wait and see.
Giving them basics sucks, same with Path to Exile, but the way I will attempt to deal with it is:
1. Not many decks play too many basics in the first place so the drawback may not be as horrible as it seems.
2. I'm only going to play 1 copy split with Kozilek's Return. I see it as a "reset button" if things get out of hand. Hopefully my other control tools can keep the board mostly under control which will help me better leverage it. I see this card acting as a general board sweeper, but specifically doing serious work against Dredge, Bogles and Selfless Spirit which are big problems for control decks. That's my 2c atm anyway.
1. Cut singleton Negate for singleton Spell Pierce as I wanted an out to RG Ponza on the draw. So I'm now on a 2/1 Snare/Pierce split which feels good so far.
2. Cut Secure the Wastes as it caused a pretty big nonbo with my sb Sulfur Elemental. Replaced it with 1 Lightning Helix for extra cheap removal vs aggro and a little more life gain plus Helix is a win condition in it's own right.
Nice, the list looks stock (aside Retaliate :p). RG Ponza is a hard one to fight against, one of the thoughest because of T2 Blood Moon and so much land destruction. Having an early out is good : you can also hold on cheap removal like Mana Leak or Negate while being on the play. But being on the draw, for sure it's not the best situation.
The 1-off Lightning Helix is great : I like this card so much, it's just the best against aggro decks and to stabilize the negative effects of our not so nice manabase. Here's what I'm up to :
I've added some black to the sideboard, mainly disruption to get over some combo decks and take away some important pieces in unknown situations. Mainboard is really stock, Urborg is doing great. I played on Sunday and I won against Jeskai Control : got the opponent down to 3 life with Helix, Bolt/Snap/Bolt and such. He got to Rev twice (flashing it back with Snap) and going up to 8, but I won through multiple activations of Colonnade. So the deck is great. Just need to be sharp about landrop decisions and manafixing.
Nice! Feels good to win the mirror which is so skill intensive. I think playing draw-go with burn spells is a good plan since no one wants to counter a 1 mana bolt and it helps force their hand so you can resolve your haymakers better. Did you miss Spell Snare at all for their Snaps?
Thoughtseize is such a good card in combination with counterspells. It's the only real tool straight Jeskai is missing in it's arsenal. It's the best card for control and combo match ups and serviceable against decks like Suicide Bloo (if they're still a thing.)
As long as you don't run into too many situations where Urborg accidentally fixes the opponent's mana, then it's a strong inclusion. Only thing I could suggest with the mana base is the addition of Scalding Tarn so you can fetch a Mountain for Bolt against aggro. I find I tend to fetch basics a lot and often times I function with more basics than duals in play to preserve the life total.
Agreed about the mana fixing/sequencing. IMO, the highest learning curve for 4c control is correctly sequencing your lands to not take unnecessary damage and be able to cast your spells on time.
I've recently changed 1 Celestial Colonnade to 1 Creeping Tar Pit. Noticed I was W "flooded" and B "screwed" but wanted to keep my non-island U sources at 3 so I can cast Cryptic under a Choke. So Tar Pit was a perfect candidate for the position and can be better than Colonnade in different ways like against Planeswalkers and can attack through tokens.
I also reluctantly cut 1 Cryptic Command for a 2nd Kolaghan's Command. Just to lower the curve a bit more since I've got 3 Teachings at the 4 mana slot. I've still got 5 "hard" counters with the setup but in testing I missed the 2nd K-Command more often and felt a bit counterspell heavy sitting at 9 counters. I think the 2nd K-Command works better with my choice of playing 3 Snaps since by lacking quantity of Snaps, I make up for that with 2 K-Command acting as pusedo-snaps. I just like K-Command a bit more these days for a few reasons:
1. Game plan - It gives me a high inevitability and works well with snapcaster with the "spells matter" theme.
2. Snapcaster protection - If Snapcasteer gets discarded, countered, or killed, I can save my countermagic and just EOT K-Command > Snap next turn, further wasting the opponent's resources. Allows me to be more liberal with my Snaps too.
3. Problem Artifacts - Deals with high threat artifacts in the main in a number of popular match ups. Pentad Prism from Ad Nauseam. Chalice of the Void in EldraTron. Ensnaring Bridge in Lantern. Affinity. Batterskull and Mindslaver. Aether Vial in D&T and Merfolk. Blade Splice in D&T. Thopter/Sword combo. Artifact creatures like Platinum Emperium in madcap, Platinum Angel in Mono U Tron and Torrential Gearhulk in Jeskai decks. Relic of Progenitus can force an early crack if needed.
4. Burn - Is another removal spell or 2 damage to the dome or planeswalker which plays good with the counter-burn game plan.
5. Discard - Good against fast aggro to kill something and make them discard a burn spell. Legit 2 for 1 in these match ups.
Basically, I feel these reasons are strong enough to warrant a 2nd copy of the card which means I have to trim Cryptic down to 1 copy but I think this change is acceptable since I've got 5 cryptic like counters + Snare/Pierce in the main with this change which I think is reasonable.
I'm really not an advocate of Spell Snare. I mean, on paper, the card is great : 1 mana for a 2 drop most probably (Tarmogoyf, Snapcaster Mage, Cranial Plating, Eidolon of the Great Revel, etc.) and shuts the opponent in the early game. Even I been very pleased with it when I was on Grixis Control and I crushed Affinity or midrange decks sometimes with it. But MOST of the times, I wasn't able to get it out of my hand : it got stuck too many times in it and I wasn't able to just play the card. So it's an efficient counter, but very narrow. I'm more into hard counters like Cryptic Command, Negate, Dispel and Logic Knot.
I'd prob stick with Blessed Alliance in the side if you're going to play Thoughtseize too.
On counters in general:
I do agree with you about generic hard counters being better. The issue I have with playing too many generic hard counters was that they are usually quite inefficient. They are the best answer we have to preemptively stop problem threats from entering play, but because they cost a lot (either Delve or just the high mana cost,) I don't think it's wise to play too many as they can cause awkward hands at the wrong time. I think it's more about finding that right balance between the counter set up instead of looking at it as "hard counter with inefficiency" vs "narrow counter with efficiency." They all have their place and time IMO.
On Spell Snare: I get the downside of the card. I am actually a late convert to the card, dismissing it outright when it was arguably at it's strongest in the past. But I've now come to value the card highly for some reasons:
1. Insurance on the draw - The tempo it gains on the draw wins games. I think it's important not to forget match ups where we feel even to slightly favoured but lose to falling behind too fast.
2. Generic answer for all 2cmc - Hits both creatures and non-creatures which saves deck building space. Instead of playing extra spot removal, you can sub in Spell Snare as a general catch all.
3. Mainboard way to combat sideboard cards - Hate cards like Rest in Peace or Negate can be brought in by creature decks to kill off our CA and out-tempo us. Spell Snare protects against this while being mainboard playable. Nothing worse than getting caught by a turn 2 Rest in Peace by a creature deck. Being able to hit RIP was a big deal for me personally when I chose to include Snare.
5. Mirror-breaking - Is very strong in the mirror match. Snapcaster Mage is one of the most important cards in the mirror. Snare stops it cold and costing only 1 mana does mental damage too. It's awkward to pay 4 (Cryptic) to counter a Snap and it's inconvenient to allow snap to resolve and just kill it. Snare really goes a long way in the card advantage battle.
I think it's just finding that right balance overall. You don't need to play Snare and I can understand the card not being good enough. Am just offering some different perspective
Interested to see your updated list when you get around to posting it.
In quarter finals I beat the through the brech guy, just for note: Snapcaster on turn 2 is a must against ramp or tron decks. (Unless you have bolts on turn 2 and can snap it on turn 3)
In semifinals I got wrecked by dredge easily, 0-2.
Actually I have sold all my white pool and I am playing some faeries and grixis, but for sure 4c control is one of the funniest decks I have ever played.
Good luck with the deck and get fun
Thanks Julio! I've added your result to the primer, so congrats on ending up top 4! You build seems strong, great list and manabase also. I hope you might join us back again sometimes for jamming 4-Color Control
@ Beer : I totaly understand your point and I can only agree with what you mentionned. Everything about balancing ''narrow but efficient counters'' with ''hard but inneficient counters'' is very true : It's just that I feel worst having Spell Snare stuck in hand knowing it won't serve in the game than having a hard counter that might not be efficient, but that is effective is doing the job against anything.
There will always be some staples in the format that can be hit by Spell Snare, but now, DS is not running much 2 CMC cards, Affinity has always been around (so Cranial Plating, Etched Champion and Arcbound Ravager are good targets), Burn has Eidolon of the Great Revel, but aside that, Company decks are not based on 2 drops and Eldrazi Tron is a monster that relies on more than that. Even in combo decks such as Storm, the main piece is not Pyromancer Ascencion, so it loses some value.
In all, it's a good card and will always be floating around in decklist because it's relevant, but its hey-days might be behind : the peak for Spell Snare was surely two years ago with midrange on top, Burn around, Affinity there and some combo decks that needed ramp (Scapeshift) or Goryo's Vengeance.
I like your updated list. I think the 2 K-Command work better in most cases than Electrolyze. You could split it 1/1, but I think the fact you have Lingering Souls means you can 'counter' opposing Souls decks and chump most things with 1 toughness too. Have you considered going:
This would give you a solid chance at hitting a Mountain fetch for turn 1 bolt if needed as well as working slightly better with Lightning Helix's mana cost. You'd still keep the same number of Island fetches, but you'd go down a couple of ways to fetch a Plains which may not be too bad since you only play 1 Plains.
EDIT: Actually, I'm scrapping Gift's Ungiven for Supreme Will. Gifts was actually pretty solid but I think SW is a perfect fit for this type of build.
Retaliate sucks and can't wait to insta-jam Scuttle in the near future. Oh, and Kozilek's Return is the shiz. Wiped the floor with 8-whack goblins 2 matches straight with this card. Am a fan.
Let the knowledge of absolute law inspire you to live a life of absolute order
Introduction
Four-Color Control is a control deck that can shift gears easily. In the early game, it plays draw-go and denies the opponent's ressources. Eventually, it pulls ahead with spells like Think Twice, Snapcaster Mage and Sphinx's Revelation. Finally, during the late game, it overuns the opponent with Lingering Souls and wins with burn spells such as Lightning Bolt or with Celestial Colonnade.
Origins and decklists
Popularized by Travis Perlee and Jonathan Sukenik, Four-Color Control in an archetype that has made some notable appearances in large tournaments, notably placing 4th at SCG Modern Open Baltimore (2015-02-28), being showcased at GP Indianapolis (2016-08-28) and being in the finals of SCG Modern Classic Baltimore (28-05-2017) :
3 Island
1 Plains
2 Arid Mesa
1 Blood Crypt
3 Celestial Colonnade
4 Flooded Strand
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Godless Shrine
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Tectonic Edge
2 Electrolyze
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Lightning Helix
3 Mana Leak
1 Mystical Teachings
4 Path to Exile
2 Remand
2 Shadow of Doubt
2 Spell Snare
1 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Lingering Souls
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Crucible Of Worlds
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Stony Silence
1 Celestial Purge
1 Counterflux
1 Dispel
1 Negate
1 Wear
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Gideon Jura
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Restoration Angel
3 Lingering Souls
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
2 Spell Snare
1 Blessed Alliance
3 Lightning Helix
1 Logic Knot
2 Mana Leak
2 Remand
2 Electrolyze
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Cryptic Command
1 Mystical Teachings
3 Celestial Colonnade
2 Flooded Strand
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Godless Shrine
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
1 Watery Grave
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Ancestral Vision
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Path to Exile
1 Secure the Wastes
4 Serum Visions
2 Lightning Helix
3 Logic Knot
1 Negate
1 Think Twice
4 Esper Charm
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Cryptic Command
2 Supreme Verdict
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Flooded Strand
2 Glacial Fortress
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
1 Plains
4 Polluted Delta
1 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
1 Swamp
1 Watery Grave
3 Condemn
2 Thoughtseize
2 Negate
2 Izzet Staticaster
2 Slaughter Games
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Gideon Jura
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Blood Crypt
2 Celestial Colonnade
1 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Flooded Strand
1 Godless Shrine
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Marsh Flats
4 Polluted Delta
1 Seachrome Coast
1 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
2 Watery Grave
1 Electrolyze
4 Fatal Push
1 Gifts Ungiven
3 Kolaghan's Command
2 Logic Knot
2 Mana Leak
4 Path to Exile
2 Spell Snare
1 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Think Twice
1 Thought Scour
2 Collective Brutality
3 Lingering Souls
2 Runed Halo
2 Celestial Purge
2 Dispel
2 Negate
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Ajani Vengeant
1 Nahiri, the Harbinger
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Mystical Teachings
1 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Cryptic Command
2 Electrolyze
2 Remand
2 Spell Snare
3 Lightning Helix
3 Mana Leak
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
2 Supreme Verdict
3 Lingering Souls
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Godless Shrine
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Watery Grave
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
2 Steam Vents
3 Celestial Colonnade
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Stony Silence
2 Celestial Purge
2 Dispel
1 Negate
1 Crumble to Dust
1 Slaughter Games
Deckbuilding
Mana Leak
There's not much to say about the card. It's the staple 2 mana counter that you're happy to play 2-3 of. Better in the early stages than in late game.
Remand
It's a very powerful card, but it's not the best in this deck. As this deck can't win very fast, you can't utilize the tempo it provides. But it is amazing versus flash back and suspend spells. So you can sometimes play a miser's copy.
Cryptic Command
One of the best cards in the deck. It can save you from a lot of bad situations. It's great card advantage so you want to play 3 or 4 in your deck. If you get a bunch of them in your hand, it can be pretty bad, so that's why some people play 3.
Spell Snare
It's a really good card in the format against Tarmogoyf, Cranial Plating, etc.. This is a great answer to Voice of Resurgence for example, and a great card when you're on the draw. It hits a lot of relevant cards in the format.
Lightning Bolt
It's usually a 4 of, but it's not that great vs combo, so that's why you see some lists with 3. It's one of the best removal spells in the format, that also helps you finish off the opponent. It also helps you deal with planeswalkers also.
Lightning Helix
It's a great anti-aggro card, and can help you stay above 18 life vs Scapeshift decks. It's very meta dependent so there's no set number of how many you should play.
Electrolyze
There are a lot of 1-2 toughness creatures in the format. So this card is insane. It also cycles so you can slowly burn out a combo/control opponent. It's a 0-3 of since it's not that great against creatureless decks.
Path to Exile
Wafo-Tapa does not like this card, since it's bad with Mana Leak Tectonic Edge. I'd argue more for 4 Lightning Bolt and some Fatal Push
Shadow of Doubt
It's one of your best ways to beat Scapeshift decks. It helps against Tron decks and it can occasionally hit a fetch land to ensure Mana Leak's efficiency. You can also chain it together with Path to Exile, so your opponent does not get a free land.
Think Twice
It helps you hit land drops. It lets you hold up counter mana without getting punished. It's card advantage. It's your best card to discard against Liliana of the Veil. It helps the deck work. You want 2-4 of these.
Sphinx's Revelation
It's secretly a finisher card. If you resolve this for 4+, then you should be a huge favorite to win. The life gain on gives you 1-3 time walks.
Wrath of God/Supreme Verdict
These are the wraths most people play.
Fatal Push
Great new removal, goes well along Lightning Bolt or Path to Exile.
Kolaghan's Command
A great answer to most of the field with Raise Dead and discard being the most frequent modes (destroy target artifact is also good)
Snapcaster Mage
Every deck list should have this card. It can provide card advantage, or let you beat down early in the game to put a clock on the opponent. It also lets you play a ton of spells (reactive cards) and singletons. It doesn't matter if the opponent kills it, as you probably got value from it. The real question is how many do you play? Play 4.
Ajani Vengeant
This card is great versus aggro decks since it will kill a creature and gain life.
Wear//Tear
Replaces Disenchant as it can potentially get a 2 for 1. You normally only want 1 of this effect in your sideboard, as it's not inherently powerful.
Counterflux
Great vs combo and control. You want 1-2 of this card
[deck]
Celestial Purge
It is a great card versus Jund and it's fine against red based aggro decks.
Spellskite
It's an all around great card versus a lot of strategies like Burn, Infect, Bogle, etc.
Negate/Dispel
Cheap counters you can bring in vs combo and control. Dispel is pretty narrow, so most lists don't have it. But you normally want at least 1 of these cards.
Rest in Peace
Great versus Storm, Living End, Reanimator, etc.
Relic of Progenitus
Another great card versus graveyard decks. It cycles when you need a card. It doesn't blank your Snapcaster Mage as much as Rest in Peace.
Stony Silence
Decent versus Tron and Affinity decks.
Timely Reinforcements
Good against aggro. Though the deck is built to be good against aggro so you don't really need this card. But if you're not playing Lightning Helix main, you probably want it in the sideboard.
Surgical Extraction
A really good card with Snapcaster Mage. And it's obviously good versus graveyard strategies, or a way to mise against combo opponents by removing Scapeshift, Tron land, etc... However if this is your only form of graveyard hate, you're going to have problems with Tarmogoyfs.
Vendilion Clique
Good card versus combo and control. You probably want at least 1 of these. As opponents will side out removal versus you.
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
Another good card versus control and some combo decks. It turns off all the opponents counter spells.
Matchups
- 1 Lightning Helix, -2 Mana Leak
+ 2 Anger of the Gods. + 1 Celestial Purge
Ad Nauseum:
- 2 Path to Exile, - 1 Sphinx's Revelation
+ 2 Dispel, + 1 Negate
Infect:
-2 Mana Leak, -2 Cryptic Command
+ 1 Negate, + 2 Anger of the Gods, + 1 Timely Reinforcements
Jund:
- 1 Kolaghan's Command
+ 1 Celestial Purge,
Burn :
-2 Logic Knot, -1 Sphinx's Revelation
+2 Dispel, + 1 Timely Reinforcements
Abzan Compagny:
- 2 Mana Leak, - 2 Sphinx's Revelation
+ 2 Anger of the Gods, + 2 Surgical Extraction
Affinity:
-2 Logic Knot
+ 2 Anger of the Gods, + 1 Timely Reinforcements
Tron:
- 2 Mana Leak, - 1 Kolaghan's Command, - 2 Fatal Push
+ 1 Negate, + 2 Surgical Extraction , + 2 X
Jeskai:
- 2 Lightning Helix, - 2 Mana Leak, - 1 Kolaghan's Command
+ 1 Negate, + 2 Dispel, + 2 Blessed Alliance
Grixis:
- 2 Mana Leak, - 1 Electrolyze, - 2 Fatal Push
+ 1 Negate, + 2 Disepl, + 1 Ceslestial Purge, + 1 Timely Reinforcements
G/R Valakut/Titanshift
- 4 Bolt, - Kolaghan's Command,
+ 2 Collective Brutality, + 2 Dispel
Articles
Videos
Conclusion
Be it Jeskai splashing black, Esper flirting with red or Grixis adding white, Four-Color control has all the needed tools to face a diversified field, griding its way to victory.
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Planeswalkers (1)
1 Ajani Vengeant
Spells (28)
2 Fatal Push
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Serum Visions
2 Lightning Helix
1 Logic Knot
2 Mana Leak
3 Kolaghan's Command
3 Lingering Souls
2 Sphinx's Revelation
3 Cryptic Command
1 Damnation
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Blood Crypt
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Flooded Strand
2 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
1 Mountain
2 Plains
4 Polluted Delta
2 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
2 Dispel
1 Secure the Wastes
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Celestial Purge
2 Collective Brutality
1 Negate
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Timely Reinforcements
Feedback from you guys would be appreciated! Cheers!
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
You could overload on multicolored spells, fill in the cracks with the normal stuff (bolt, push, path, snap, etc) and have a four color goodstuff deck.
2 Ajani Vengeant
2 Lightning Helix
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Countersquall
2 Punish Ignorance
4 Electrolyze
4 Esper Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
2 Dreadbore
4 Serum Visions
4 Reflecting Pool
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Concealed Courtyard
2 Inspiring Vantage
4 Seachrome Coast
4 Spirebluff Canal
Current idea is this.
Its pretty loose, obviously, but a bit of goldfishing proves its not quite as awkward as it looks.
I've been contemplating a 5-Color Control deck using that kind of manabase + Vivid Creek type of lands, but that was way too clunky. 4-Color goodstuff is viable with the manabase you suggested, but so far, the 25 lands manabase I use is pretty solid and I might only change -1 Blood Crypt for +1 Godless Shrine.
It feels really smooth and I can get access to colors in any situation, even under Blood Moon (enough basics to cast it). The lifeloss from shocking and fetching is important, but thanks to Lightning Helix, Ajani Vengeant and Sphinx's Revelation, it stabilizes at some point (turn 5 to 8).
The deck is a blast to play because of having access to so much value : the only tricky part is really how to land drop correctly. It's a hard deck to pilot also, but very rewarding!
Cheers!
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
EDIT:
4 Snapcaster Mage
Planeswalkers (1)
1 Ajani Vengeant
Spells (30)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
3 Cryptic Command
3 Lingering Souls
3 Logic Knot
3 Think Twice
2 Lightning Helix
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Mana Leak
1 Mystical Teachings
4 Flooded Strand
3 Arid Mesa
3 Celestial Colonnade
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Steam Vents
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Polluted Delta
1 Spirebluff Canal
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Watery Grave
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Dispel
1 Secure the Wastes
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Damping Matrix
1 Celestial Purge
1 Negate
1 Counterflux
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Timely Reinforcements
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
My list:
1 Bloodstained Mire
3 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Flooded Strand
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
1 Marsh Flats
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
2 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
Creature (4)
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Torrential Gearhulk
2 Mana Tithe
3 Path to Exile
1 Surgical Extraction
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Fatal Push
2 Blessed Alliance
4 Think Twice
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Mystical Teachings
1 Mindbreak Trap
2 Cryptic Command
2 Consume the Meek
2 Logic Knot
1 Sphinx's Revelation
Enchantment (1)
1 Cast Out
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Patrician's Scorn
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Voidmage Husher
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Gather Specimens
1 Commandeer
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Extirpate
1 Ravenous Trap
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Notion Thief
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Wear // Tear
Last 3 matches where against Death's Shadow Grixis -
1. Lost 2-1 - Last game was super tight and came down to topdecks. He topped a Stubs for my flashbacked teachings and then he topped an Angler and I topped 2 lands and that's all she wrote.
2. Lost 2-0 - Game 1 took a 1 lander with draw spells and removal. Missed a couple land drops and held on pretty well but eventually lost. Game 2 took a 6 lander with a draw spell since I didn't want to get screwed again. Ended up topping 4-5 lands while my opponent had double Death's Shadow in play. Awkward match.
3. Won 2-1 - Felt like I was comfortable but uncomfortable at the same time. Probably could of took this 2-0 if my opponent didn't draw his outs in game 2.
I feel the scariest play Grixis Shadow can make is an early Delve threat backed by Stubborn Denial. Just being out-tempo'd hard with lack of Path/Snaps in hand, otherwise I feel they gas out when you stabilise. Feels like a swingy match up.
I didn't sideboard anything. Don't know if I should bring in some grave hate? Either pinpoint extraction effects or hard yard hosers like Ravenous Trap? Not sure. Thinking Consume the Meek could be cut for this but CtM flashbacked with Gearhulk did wipe out a Death's Shadow which was nice.
EDIT: Tom, you're cutting K-Command from your recent list? That cards insane in Modern, what's your reasoning?
DOUBLE EDIT: I see Travis has cut his previous utility slot of 1 Mystical Teachings for 1 Gifts Ungiven. What'ss he tutors for? [Snap, Tas, Souls, K-Command]?
WMMT5dx: Car - RK Coupe Track - Hakone Outbound
Nice list, it seems to me that you crafted the manabase very well : to me, it's the worst part of our 4-Color deck (not the nicest manabase, needing to sequence correctly the landrops to minimize lifeloss, etc.). Maindeck is very original also, I like most of it. I understand that you really want to play a pure instant speed deck, the reason why there's not a single sorcery speed card in that 75
However, I'd need some clarifications about some choices :
1) 2 Mana Tithe seems like for Blood Moon on turn 3 on the draw with only 2 lands in play for you, am I correct? In the late game, it seems lacklusting though, so how is it performing after turn 5?
2) Maindeck Blessed Alliance, why? For Dredge?
3) 1 Mindbreak Trap is for Storm right? Isn't it pretty much dead against the aggro field, so you teach for it when needed after stalling against Storm?
4) Consume the Meek seems weak to me : I'd like to know the reasoning behind a 5CMC sweeper please!
5) Isn't Cast Out too mana consuming? I know that Detention Sphere is not flash and everything should have flash, but I just want to know how it performed.
In regards to your matchups, DS is though, but not unwinnable. Having Lingering Souls is the best card out there to deal with it and that's why I feel I have a decent matchup against it. It's hard to stall the board, but even through discard and some counterspells, I'm able to play it down. Being manascrewed is not great either :s
Updtated list for me :
4 Snapcaster Mage
Planeswalkers (1)
1 Ajani Vengeant
Spells (30)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
4 Think Twice
3 Cryptic Command
3 Lingering Souls
3 Logic Knot
2 Electrolyze
2 Lightning Helix
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Mana Leak
1 Mystical Teachings
1 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Flooded Strand
2 Arid Mesa
2 Polluted Delta
3 Celestial Colonnade
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Steam Vents
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Watery Grave
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Dispel
1 Secure the Wastes
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Molten Rain
1 Celestial Purge
1 Negate
1 Counterflux
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Timely Reinforcements
I cut K-Command to replace it for Electrolyze. I'm dealing a lot with pesky creatures and discard hasn't been very effective : dealing to damage is equal on both sides, the only upside is raising dead a Snapcaster Mage. I prefer however to draw a card instead that bringing it back because of Think Twice power and the tutors in the deck.
Cheers!
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
Or...Mardu blue I guess?
Jokes aside I've been testing this deck and it feels like it has a lot of potential. Gifts Ungiven is an awesome card advantage engine, and I find myself tutoring for Souls, Snapcaster, Kolaghan's Command and Tasigur. What match-ups do you think may be on the tougher side?
UWGBant EldraziUWGDecided I don't like Todd Stevens decks.UBRGrixis ControlUBR
UUUAnd anything that plays 4x Cryptic CommandUUU
Anything with Blood Moon, fast aggro decks such as Zoo, Affinity and degenerate decks with lots of mana such as RG Tron. The deck is in great shpae against Death's Shadow, Burn also is ok, Collected Company is fine and UW Control and tempo strategies are manageable. Against combo also, we're good (Scapeshift, Storm). Ad Nauseam is tricky though
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
2 Arid Mesa
3 Celestial Colonnade
2 Flooded Strand
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
1 Mountain
2 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
Creature (3)
3 Snapcaster Mage
Instant (30)
3 Path to Exile
2 Spell Snare
1 Surgical Extraction
3 Lightning Bolt
1 Negate
1 Blessed Alliance
4 Think Twice
1 Disallow
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Kozilek's Return
3 Mystical Teachings
1 Mindbreak Trap
2 Cryptic Command
1 Retaliate
2 Logic Knot
1 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Secure the Wastes
1 Murderous Cut
1 Cast Out
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Patrician's Scorn
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Gather Specimens
1 Commandeer
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Extirpate
1 Crypt Incursion
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Notion Thief
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Hide // Seek
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Wear // Tear
I'm pretty sold on this list now and your questions above influenced some of my decisions. I'll start by saying my philosophy on Control is vastly different from majority of people. I don't see control as a meta game deck. The way I see control is a deck that can work regardless of the meta, by having an answer to everything that may come my way. And to do that, I need to literally have an answer to everything which is why my deck is built the way it is. So with that out of the way, I'll try to answers your questions.
1. Mana Tithe - Very good in testing so far. Primarily in there for non-creature threats like Moon, Stone Rain, Karn, Lilly, Bitterblossom etc that may get under a standard 2mc counter. Yes it is dead late game, but I usually discard down to hand size and if I draw this late, it's not too terrible since teachings can get me back in the game instantly. Am now playing Spell Pierce instead since after reviewing the role of the 1 mana counterspell, I realise that it's mainly for the early non-creature stuff and Pierce is a house for that while also staying "somewhat" relevant late game, similar to Mana Leak but for non-creature. 2 copies has been good for me in testing and feel it is an important card to protect against rogue Blood Moons which can be sided in from Zoo, Affinity and Delver.
2. Blessed Alliance - This goes back to my deck-building philosophy of having an answer to anything. It's the only answer for Bogles which is notorious for destroying interactive control decks. Life gain is relevant too against Burn and also hits problems like Thrun, Stormbreath, Geist and Gae's Revenge that rip Control too. I've now gone down to 1 copy after you questioning this card and am happy sitting at 1.
3. Mindbreak Trap - Again, my philosophy. Without this card I cannot counter the Storm Mechanic. I cannot counter a hard cast Emrakul or uncounterable spells like Slaughter Games orCavern of Souls naming Iona, Shield of Emeria. I replaced my 3rd Cryptic with this card since UR Storm is a popular deck and can go off on turn 3, and the only thing that can save me if that happens is this card.
4. Consume the Meek is one of those cards that look a lot worse than it plays. Unfortunately, it's the only instant speed sweeper that is playable as Hideous Laughter and Kozilek's Return are too weak and Retaliate and Fated Retribution are unplayable. CtM is good, but has me more dedicated to a heavier B mana base than I'd like. Enter Scuttle the Wreckage. The new Ixalan spoilers provided a Godsend in the 2WW ]instant speed sweeper department in Wreckage. This new sweeper exiles all attacking creatures which gets around hexproof, dredge and creature swarms as well as Sigarda, Host of Herons. This card is going to replace CtM for me when it's live and will be a solid 1-of teachings target. I'm feeling really hyped for this card!
5. Cast Out - Very powerful in testing. 75% of the time, I'm cycling this for W which is excellent against every deck out there. When I'm not cycling this, it's a bullet that I can come from behind against something like a Karn or Nahiri that resolved, tutor this and instant speed O-Ring them. Highly recommend this card, is a perfect fit for draw-go.
New additions for me are :
1 Disallow for an answer to triggers, activated abilities (which I currently cannot answer) and Emrakul, the Promised End Delirium decks.
1 Murderous Cut instead of the 4th Path to Exile. Path has boned me so many times against fast aggro by ramping them, true story. That's why I prefer 4 bolt to 4 path but Path still is the best at what it does so I can't go lower than 3. I decided to play a singleton Murderous Cut instead of the 4th Path as a hedge against Iona, Shield of Emeria naming white, a hedge against a resolved Chalice of the Void X=1 and for pro white stuff like Stormbreath Dragon. Pretty happy with this split.
4 Snapcaster Mage / 0 Torrential Gearhulk - While Gearhulk is awesome, in testing I'm finding the best thing ever against hyper aggro is Bolt/Snap/Bolt because it's just so efficient and fights on aggro's wavelength. I just can't justify playing less than 4 Snaps and 4 Bolts just for the reason that hyper aggro exists. Gearhulk is just too slow against aggro so I cut 1 Gearhulk for the 4th Snap.
Celestial Colonnade Heavier White Mana Base for when Scuttle the Wreckage goes live - Replaced Tar Pits with Colonnades to hit my W sources for the new sweeper which I think is just what this deck needs. Positive side effect of this is that Colonnade being a 4/4 is just as beefy as Gearhulk since they both dodge Bolt which makes cutting Gearhulk for the 4th Snap a much easier decision.
Sideboard decisions I cut 1 Voidmage Husher since I'm playing Disallow main for the same thing. Added Hide // Seek for a library disruption effect since I've come across 2 Emrakul Delirium builds lately online and an uncounterable Mindslaver effect is more inevitable than anything I can do so Hide/Seek can help stop this while adding to Artifact/Enchantment hate which is always welcome in addition to grave hate. Can be sided in vs Burn to gain 3 life off a Rift Bolt. Also added Crypt Incursion which gained me 15 life against Burn which was pretty dope. It's mainly in there for Dredge/Dredgevine decks though.
So far I'm pretty happy with this build, my curve is quite low for 26 land control deck, only 11-13 cards over 2cmc depending on how you cast Murd Cut or Cast Out for. I'm also not over-indulging in any specific CMC. By that I mean I have a personal cap off of the number "12" in my CMC slots and am in the green zone from 0-7 CMC cards which I personally feel good about it. Just holding out for that new sweeper, I cannot wait!
RE your list: Yea I can get behind Electrolyze it's a beautiful card, especially the Promo version and I myself do prefer Electrolyze more than K-Command. I just feel K-Command plays better with my own personal philosophy of having an answer to everything like the popular Chalice, Batterskull, Shackles, Bridge that I can't stop with Electrolyze. Other than that, I'd most definitely be on Electrolyze since it is such a strong card against Lingering Souls which is an important tool to have in the arsenal.
UWGBant EldraziUWGDecided I don't like Todd Stevens decks.UBRGrixis ControlUBR
UUUAnd anything that plays 4x Cryptic CommandUUU
Nahiri is really a strain for the deck, not only because of Emrakul, but because also there's no need for her in a 4-Color decks I think. For me, the idea of such a deck is to combine the powerful elements of four different colors and take the best card out of it. For example, in BR, you might probably want K-Command for your 3 CMC spot (I don't, I prefer Electrolyze, but it's another point). Then, Nahiri works well in Boros or Jeskai, but we don't need her for closing out games. We're one of the most interactive deck out there and we want to make the most of it by having different axis of attack : burn spells, Lingering Souls, man lands, Secure the Wastes, planeswalkers, etc.
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
Glad to see you back on the thread Beer! No worries about the computer issues, we all have
Thanks so much for such a detailed answer. I'm really glad to see some changes to your list as now, it seems more consistent to me (especially the manabase). I understand you philosophy of control as being proactive and having an answer for everything that's possibly out there. I think it's a great way to think, but at the same time, I also think that's hard to achieve with efficiency and consistency. There are so many situations where some cards work wonders, but in some others, they are average. I tend to go for cards that can be effective while be efficient in a large pool of situations in order to maximize the chances I have to make the most out of them.
1) I'm glad to see Spell Pierce in the mainboard as it makes more sense to me and is a better card than Mana Tithe in my opinion. Goes well with the way you approach control also. I'd prefer to see some hard counters (I'm not sold on cards with ''opponent pays X'' other than Logic Knot, but that's personal preference I guess).
2) So glad to see that Consume the Meek is gone. It was too much of a strain for my taste CMC wise and on the manabase. What about some more sweepers? I feel we need at least 2-3 sweepers mainboard to be really effective.
3) What's Scuttle the Wreckage? I haven't seen that card anywhere and I haven't found it on internet... Is it a new one from HOU?
4) I'd still cut Mindbreak Trap mainboard because it's too narrow. I'd move it to the side because with it during game 2-3, you'll be golden for sure. Same thing with Blessed Alliance against Dredge. Same thing for Surgical Extraction. That's just for more consistency. I'd swing in 3 copies of one card that can be awesome : Lingering Souls.
To me, the way 4-Color wins is by shifting gears : we can sit back and take it easy, but we can also be proactive from turn 1 Bolt, turn 2 Helix, turn Lingering Souls, turn 5 Secure the Wastes and turn 6 Colonnade. We can be an agressive deck without any issue and that's essential in the current meta.
Looking forward to see how you tweak the deck my friend
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
2. I agree. A legitimate flaw in my list after testing was that I was very weak to Lingering Souls and swarms like Elves after cutting CtM. I've now rectified this by adding Kozilek's Return. I've also added Secure the Wastes to help "cancel out" opposing Souls tokens. I feel safer against wide decks with this change.
3. If you google Ixalan spoiler leaks you may be able to find the sweeper I'm talking about. The release day is around September-October I think which is a little while away. I'm playing a Retaliate currently until that new sweeper comes out. Just want to get the deck setup as a UW deck with RB splash and Retaliate gets me used to the WW cost. But boy, Retaliate is a bad card lol. All for testing purposes since I've seen the spoilers.
4. I'm 4 from 6 vs Storm and Mindbreak Trap has won me many games. It's really just Cryptic Command #3 so it's not terribly narrow IMO as it is still a stock counter. The exile is relevant against Cavern of Souls Eldrazi too. It's also free of Mystical Teachings vs Storm so I'm technically playing 4 copies in that match up. If I were to cut it, I'd add another Cryptic but I find Mindbreak Trap to be significantly better in at least 3 T1 match ups.
Blessed Alliance is important since an 8/7 fetch/shock mana base can add up. This card is somewhat of a win condition against Burn in my testing. BA/snap/BA for 8 life usually wins it. Also, it lets me beat Bogles. Without this card, I'm not beating Bogles and I don't like that so it stays in for that reason.
Surgical Extraction allows me a chance to win vs Loam Pox and Dredge decks. Without Surgical Extraction in the main, I auto-scoop game 1 and that's not my style. Playing 3 copies of Mystical Teachings allows me to justify playing more "narrow" cards like these. But tbh, these cards aren't exactly narrow in this meta, I mean, Skred did win a GP packing 3-4 copies of grave hate in the main.
While Lingering Souls is a broken magic card, it unfortunately doesn't solve any of the issues that those bullet type cards solve. It also is a Sorcery which fails to make my deck just because of the card type. I am now playing Secure the Wastes which is the closest, playable card to Lingering Souls that can fit my deck construction so I can kind of meet you halfway there
My deck with the new changes:
2 Arid Mesa
3 Celestial Colonnade
2 Flooded Strand
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
1 Mountain
2 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
Creature (3)
3 Snapcaster Mage
Instant (30)
3 Path to Exile
2 Spell Snare
1 Surgical Extraction
3 Lightning Bolt
1 Negate
1 Blessed Alliance
4 Think Twice
1 Disallow
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Kozilek's Return
3 Mystical Teachings
1 Mindbreak Trap
2 Cryptic Command
1 Retaliate
2 Logic Knot
1 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Secure the Wastes
1 Murderous Cut
1 Cast Out
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Patrician's Scorn
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Gather Specimens
1 Commandeer
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Extirpate
1 Crypt Incursion
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Notion Thief
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Hide // Seek
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Wear // Tear
Anyway, how's your deck going? You still jamming some 4c or focusing more on Jeskai at the current moment?
Otherwise, it's coming along : I'll update the list and if you might want to contribute to the primer also, just pm me
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
If I think of anything when I get the time I'll PM ya but for now I think the primer is good and you've definitely done your homework with links to Travis and Jonathan's decks.
The new sweeper looks like a snap-include in all-out teachings lists like mine just because it's the only playable unconditional instant speed sweeper we have access to. In more classical control lists, I'd probably still stick with Supreme Verdict and only really look at adding this as a singleton if wanting to gain points in the Dredge match up. Will have to wait and see.
Giving them basics sucks, same with Path to Exile, but the way I will attempt to deal with it is:
1. Not many decks play too many basics in the first place so the drawback may not be as horrible as it seems.
2. I'm only going to play 1 copy split with Kozilek's Return. I see it as a "reset button" if things get out of hand. Hopefully my other control tools can keep the board mostly under control which will help me better leverage it. I see this card acting as a general board sweeper, but specifically doing serious work against Dredge, Bogles and Selfless Spirit which are big problems for control decks. That's my 2c atm anyway.
Slightly modified my list
2 Arid Mesa
1 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Celestial Colonnade
2 Flooded Strand
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
1 Mountain
2 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
Creature (3)
3 Snapcaster Mage
Instant (30)
3 Path to Exile
2 Spell Snare
1 Spell Pierce
1 Surgical Extraction
3 Lightning Bolt
1 Lightning Helix
1 Blessed Alliance
4 Think Twice
1 Disallow
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Kozilek's Return
3 Mystical Teachings
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Cryptic Command
1 Retaliate
2 Logic Knot
1 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Murderous Cut
1 Cast Out
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Patrician's Scorn
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Gather Specimens
1 Commandeer
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Extirpate
1 Crypt Incursion
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Notion Thief
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Hide // Seek
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Wear // Tear
1. Cut singleton Negate for singleton Spell Pierce as I wanted an out to RG Ponza on the draw. So I'm now on a 2/1 Snare/Pierce split which feels good so far.
2. Cut Secure the Wastes as it caused a pretty big nonbo with my sb Sulfur Elemental. Replaced it with 1 Lightning Helix for extra cheap removal vs aggro and a little more life gain plus Helix is a win condition in it's own right.
The 1-off Lightning Helix is great : I like this card so much, it's just the best against aggro decks and to stabilize the negative effects of our not so nice manabase. Here's what I'm up to :
4 Snapcaster Mage
Planeswalkers (1)
1 Ajani Vengeant
Spells (30)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
4 Think Twice
3 Cryptic Command
3 Lingering Souls
3 Logic Knot
2 Electrolyze
2 Lightning Helix
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Negate
1 Mystical Teachings
1 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Flooded Strand
2 Arid Mesa
2 Polluted Delta
3 Celestial Colonnade
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Steam Vents
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Watery Grave
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Dispel
2 Thoughtseize
1 Blessed Alliance
3 Molten Rain
1 Celestial Purge
1 Counterflux
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Wear // Tear
I've added some black to the sideboard, mainly disruption to get over some combo decks and take away some important pieces in unknown situations. Mainboard is really stock, Urborg is doing great. I played on Sunday and I won against Jeskai Control : got the opponent down to 3 life with Helix, Bolt/Snap/Bolt and such. He got to Rev twice (flashing it back with Snap) and going up to 8, but I won through multiple activations of Colonnade. So the deck is great. Just need to be sharp about landrop decisions and manafixing.
Cheers!
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
Thoughtseize is such a good card in combination with counterspells. It's the only real tool straight Jeskai is missing in it's arsenal. It's the best card for control and combo match ups and serviceable against decks like Suicide Bloo (if they're still a thing.)
As long as you don't run into too many situations where Urborg accidentally fixes the opponent's mana, then it's a strong inclusion. Only thing I could suggest with the mana base is the addition of Scalding Tarn so you can fetch a Mountain for Bolt against aggro. I find I tend to fetch basics a lot and often times I function with more basics than duals in play to preserve the life total.
Agreed about the mana fixing/sequencing. IMO, the highest learning curve for 4c control is correctly sequencing your lands to not take unnecessary damage and be able to cast your spells on time.
I've recently changed 1 Celestial Colonnade to 1 Creeping Tar Pit. Noticed I was W "flooded" and B "screwed" but wanted to keep my non-island U sources at 3 so I can cast Cryptic under a Choke. So Tar Pit was a perfect candidate for the position and can be better than Colonnade in different ways like against Planeswalkers and can attack through tokens.
I also reluctantly cut 1 Cryptic Command for a 2nd Kolaghan's Command. Just to lower the curve a bit more since I've got 3 Teachings at the 4 mana slot. I've still got 5 "hard" counters with the setup but in testing I missed the 2nd K-Command more often and felt a bit counterspell heavy sitting at 9 counters. I think the 2nd K-Command works better with my choice of playing 3 Snaps since by lacking quantity of Snaps, I make up for that with 2 K-Command acting as pusedo-snaps. I just like K-Command a bit more these days for a few reasons:
1. Game plan - It gives me a high inevitability and works well with snapcaster with the "spells matter" theme.
2. Snapcaster protection - If Snapcasteer gets discarded, countered, or killed, I can save my countermagic and just EOT K-Command > Snap next turn, further wasting the opponent's resources. Allows me to be more liberal with my Snaps too.
3. Problem Artifacts - Deals with high threat artifacts in the main in a number of popular match ups. Pentad Prism from Ad Nauseam. Chalice of the Void in EldraTron. Ensnaring Bridge in Lantern. Affinity. Batterskull and Mindslaver. Aether Vial in D&T and Merfolk. Blade Splice in D&T. Thopter/Sword combo. Artifact creatures like Platinum Emperium in madcap, Platinum Angel in Mono U Tron and Torrential Gearhulk in Jeskai decks. Relic of Progenitus can force an early crack if needed.
4. Burn - Is another removal spell or 2 damage to the dome or planeswalker which plays good with the counter-burn game plan.
5. Discard - Good against fast aggro to kill something and make them discard a burn spell. Legit 2 for 1 in these match ups.
Basically, I feel these reasons are strong enough to warrant a 2nd copy of the card which means I have to trim Cryptic down to 1 copy but I think this change is acceptable since I've got 5 cryptic like counters + Snare/Pierce in the main with this change which I think is reasonable.
I'm tuning the list around Lingering Souls and Mystical Teachings : I might go back to 2 K-Command in the main also, but I'm still unsure about that. Collective Brutality might be an option out of the sideboard also, but I really love Blessed Alliance. More to come!
And your plan seems awesome
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
On counters in general:
I do agree with you about generic hard counters being better. The issue I have with playing too many generic hard counters was that they are usually quite inefficient. They are the best answer we have to preemptively stop problem threats from entering play, but because they cost a lot (either Delve or just the high mana cost,) I don't think it's wise to play too many as they can cause awkward hands at the wrong time. I think it's more about finding that right balance between the counter set up instead of looking at it as "hard counter with inefficiency" vs "narrow counter with efficiency." They all have their place and time IMO.
On Spell Snare: I get the downside of the card. I am actually a late convert to the card, dismissing it outright when it was arguably at it's strongest in the past. But I've now come to value the card highly for some reasons:
1. Insurance on the draw - The tempo it gains on the draw wins games. I think it's important not to forget match ups where we feel even to slightly favoured but lose to falling behind too fast.
2. Generic answer for all 2cmc - Hits both creatures and non-creatures which saves deck building space. Instead of playing extra spot removal, you can sub in Spell Snare as a general catch all.
3. Mainboard way to combat sideboard cards - Hate cards like Rest in Peace or Negate can be brought in by creature decks to kill off our CA and out-tempo us. Spell Snare protects against this while being mainboard playable. Nothing worse than getting caught by a turn 2 Rest in Peace by a creature deck. Being able to hit RIP was a big deal for me personally when I chose to include Snare.
4. Combats fringe and/or difficult strategies - Zombie Infestation, Bitterblossom. Goryo's Vengeance, Thopter Foundry, Waste Not, Small Pox Luminarch Ascension, Young Pyromancer, Chalice of the Void on 1, , Hidden Stockpile, Thing in the Ice, Vizier of Remedies,
RattlechainsMesmeric Orb, Burning-Tree Emissary, Spreading Seas, StrangleRoot Geist etc just to name a few odd-ball cards that can be difficult to deal with and nigh impossible to deal with on the draw.
5. Mirror-breaking - Is very strong in the mirror match. Snapcaster Mage is one of the most important cards in the mirror. Snare stops it cold and costing only 1 mana does mental damage too. It's awkward to pay 4 (Cryptic) to counter a Snap and it's inconvenient to allow snap to resolve and just kill it. Snare really goes a long way in the card advantage battle.
I think it's just finding that right balance overall. You don't need to play Snare and I can understand the card not being good enough. Am just offering some different perspective
Interested to see your updated list when you get around to posting it.
Thanks Julio! I've added your result to the primer, so congrats on ending up top 4! You build seems strong, great list and manabase also. I hope you might join us back again sometimes for jamming 4-Color Control
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
There will always be some staples in the format that can be hit by Spell Snare, but now, DS is not running much 2 CMC cards, Affinity has always been around (so Cranial Plating, Etched Champion and Arcbound Ravager are good targets), Burn has Eidolon of the Great Revel, but aside that, Company decks are not based on 2 drops and Eldrazi Tron is a monster that relies on more than that. Even in combo decks such as Storm, the main piece is not Pyromancer Ascencion, so it loses some value.
In all, it's a good card and will always be floating around in decklist because it's relevant, but its hey-days might be behind : the peak for Spell Snare was surely two years ago with midrange on top, Burn around, Affinity there and some combo decks that needed ramp (Scapeshift) or Goryo's Vengeance.
For now, I might settled on this list :
4 Snapcaster Mage
Spells (30)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
4 Serum Visions
3 Lingering Souls
3 Logic Knot
2 Cryptic Command
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Lightning Helix
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Mana Leak
1 Negate
1 Mystical Teachings
1 Sphinx's Revelation
Lands (26)
4 Flooded Strand
2 Arid Mesa
2 Polluted Delta
3 Celestial Colonnade
1 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Steam Vents
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Watery Grave
1 Godless Shrine
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Sulfur Falls
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
2 Dispel
2 Thoughtseize
1 Blessed Alliance
2 Molten Rain
1 Celestial Purge
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Counterflux
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Wear // Tear
Cheers!
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
-2 Flooded Strand
+2 Scalding Tarn
This would give you a solid chance at hitting a Mountain fetch for turn 1 bolt if needed as well as working slightly better with Lightning Helix's mana cost. You'd still keep the same number of Island fetches, but you'd go down a couple of ways to fetch a Plains which may not be too bad since you only play 1 Plains.
EDIT: Actually, I'm scrapping Gift's Ungiven for Supreme Will. Gifts was actually pretty solid but I think SW is a perfect fit for this type of build.
2 Arid Mesa
1 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Celestial Colonnade
2 Flooded Strand
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
1 Mountain
2 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
Creature (4)
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
Instant (29)
3 Path to Exile
2 Spell Snare
1 Spell Pierce
1 Surgical Extraction
3 Lightning Bolt
1 Lightning Helix
1 Blessed Alliance
4 Think Twice
1 Disallow
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Kozilek's Return
2 Mystical Teachings
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Cryptic Command
1 Retaliate
2 Logic Knot
1 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Murderous Cut
1 Cast Out
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Patrician's Scorn
1 Gather Specimens
1 Commandeer
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Extirpate
1 Crypt Incursion
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Notion Thief
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Hide // Seek
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Wear // Tear
Retaliate sucks and can't wait to insta-jam Scuttle in the near future. Oh, and Kozilek's Return is the shiz. Wiped the floor with 8-whack goblins 2 matches straight with this card. Am a fan.