how is this deck doing in the new meta? what are its worst MU??
Not too bad I don't think. Worst thing is burn and graveyard hate, but we can cast our creatures anyway. Humans kinda sucks too, but I mean it got top 8 on Saturday...
1º Round - Jund
In the first match he started with Iok, and bob. I casted Path in his bob and I controlled the game, in the 5º turn I did As foretold and LE. He bring bob from exile to the game and didn't realize that. He came back to the game with bob and bbe. The second match I lost really fast. Got really worried about bob, but was my fault too. I need to pen more attention.
0-1
2º Round - Death and Taxes
Both matches the guy mull a lot trying to find Vial, but he didn't find it. I won really easy.
1-1
3º Round - Bant Reliquary
It was a really long match. I was controlling the game but he was always came back. We just had time to play 1 match and I won it.
1-2
4º Round - Rg Eldrazi
Nimble helped me a lot countering TKS trigger and other things. That version don't uses Chalice. In the second match I used condemn and settle the wreckage against the creatures, and stony Silence and disenchant against other things. It was a hard match but I won 2-1
1-3
5º Round -
We decide to go 1-1 and rest to the top 8
Top 8 - Scapshift
The first match I started with no counterspell in my hand, and He combo really easy. The second match I played 2x Leylines, but he kicked my ass with bbe two times. It's a hard match because he uses a lot of lands and our mana leak and remand become useless. The only card that can save you is cryptic command.
I've been playing this deck for three months and I've been following this thread for a while. I figure I would help out by sharing my insights and observations.
Overall Philosophy
As many others have stated, I believe that Mono Blue Living End As Foretold is a combo deck first and foremost. Yes, our deck plays more counterspells than virtually any other deck in the format, but our counterspells serve the purpose of protecting us until we assemble our combo. I hope that anyone who decides to pick this deck up understands that. I believe this deck, if built well, can compete with almost any deck in Modern. The deck is flexible, explosive and it attacks from a variety of angles.
Mono Blue versus U/W or U/B
I believe the mono blue version (with a slight black splash in the mana) is strongest. The reason? Heavy splashes for black or white add little to the deck's primary gameplan. Unless you are metagaming for a specific environment, the sideboard benefits of a heavy splash seem marginal at best. Whatever advantage is gained by improving 6-8 sideboard slots is most likely given back overall due to mana inconsistencies, loss of life and/or opening yourself up to Blood Moon. Splashing a second color in this Modern environment is not as free as many people believe it to be.
Countermagic
The most common suggestion I have for people playing this deck is to fix the countermagic. Think about the purpose of countermagic in our combo deck. As stated, we are looking to protect ourselves and buy time until we assemble living end/as foretold, wrath the board and take over the game. Our countermagic also helps us protect our hand against disruption and force through our combo versus opposing counterspells.
Here is how I evaluate the counterspells commonly played in Living End/As Foretold:
Cryptic Command (5 stars) - I believe that Living End As Foretold makes better use of Cryptic Command than any other deck in Modern. The card is tremendous when we're behind, at parody or ahead. It can buy time for Ancestral Vision, tap down blockers, bounce hate pieces, help us cycle through our deck, reset Bojuka Bog -- just awesome. I personally feel the full four copies are as untouchable in the maindeck as As Foretold itself.
Spell Pierce (5 stars) - The ideal counterspell. It does everything we want our countermagic to do. It protects against Inquisition of Kozilek and Thoughtseize in the early turns and it defends against most of the troublesome noncreature spells that we will see post-board. It also lets us smack around other blue decks and force through our combo. I've found this card to be an all-star in the deck. I personally run 3 copies in the maindeck and I can see myself going to the full 4 copies someday with more testing.
Remand (5 stars) - Remand is another incredible card for our deck. It buys us time, protects against early threats and it cycles to help us dig for our combo pieces. Remand isn't great in all matchups, but it's never actively bad and it furthers our gameplan by helping us find our pieces. It hits enough of Modern to where I believe the full playset is absolutely necessary in all builds.
Spell Snare (4 stars) - Some people dislike Spell Snare, but I find the card to be incredibly effective. It gives us game in our bad matchups and it helps us cement our good ones. Spell snare also hits Scavenging Ooze and Rest in Peace. I recommend 1-2 copies maindeck.
Mana Leak (3.5 stars) - Mana Leak is a perfectly fine card, however, I feel it falls short compared to the other options available. I've found that Mana Leak is just worse than Spell Pierce in our deck. It has the flexibility of countering creature spells and (potentially) answering threats permanently, but I've found that the cards we care about answering are either creatures that cost 1-2 mana or non-creature spells. In the later case, Spell Pierce is usually the better option.
Disallow (3 stars) - This is one of my favorite cards, but it's tough to justify space for Disallow in LEAF. Being a true hard counter is nice for when we untap after resolving Ancestral Vision or post-Living End, but I don't like how the card lines up with the rest of our deck's strategy. I will say though, that the ability to counter activated and triggered abilities is extremely relevant to the deck. Still, I wouldn't play more than a single copy in the 75.
Pact of Negation (1 star) - I don't believe we want this card in the deck. It actively hurts our primary gameplan since it is a dead draw on turns 1-4 where we need our countermagic the most. It has late game utility, but in the instances where we'd want to transmute for it with Tolaria West, I rather get something like Ancestral Vision or Bojuka Bog and reset the primary gameplan.
Sideboard
I believe that the sideboard is the single most important part of our deck and, in my opinion, what has kept this deck from putting up results online or at major tournaments. I may write a sideboard guide later based on what has worked well for me. That said, I like the idea of keeping the sideboard open since this deck is extremely difficult to play against if you don't know what to expect post-board. Also, the popularized version of the deck had a horrible sideboard.
Lastly, I want to thank 1310Hazzzard for creating such a sweet and fun deck! (I hope he's still reading this thread.) I've been having a blast playing it. I feel LEAF can be configured to have good-to-great matchups versus a number of the top decks in the format and it is one of the most exciting decks to pilot and watch at FNM
Hi! Can you show us some decklist? I still use the v1.0 of the deck (with dissalows and that) but cannot play too much magic generally and cannot test, so i´d like to see a updated decklist and prefere, as you, the mono U with so black sources, so we can cast street wraith and things like that.
Hello, YellowMimic! I can relate to your situation. While play testing is important, I believe that you can significantly improve your deck by thinking critically about card choices, your deck's purpose, your deck's place in the metagame and the reason you play your deck. If you develop a true understanding of your deck, then the card choices should follow and you should be able to effectively pilot (and enjoy) the deck.
I work in education, so I rather help you understand how to think rather than doing the thinking for you. Let me walk you through some ideas that will help you along the way.
Conceptualization
Living End As Foretold is a combo deck. As a combo deck, all cards in our main deck must significantly advance the execution of our primary gameplan. (Modern is too efficient of a format for that not to be the case!) To understand combo better, take a look the most successful combo deck in Modern and see how their deck plan matches with their card choices:
Plan
U/R Gifts Storm is a combo deck looking to set up the following gameplay scenario:
While opponent executes their gameplan, create a game state that allows you to cast multiple spells in a single turn
Cast a critical number of spells in a single turn
Find then cast a storm spell such as Grapeshot to defeat the opponent
Every one of the 60 cards in the main deck is working toward executing the deck's three-step plan as quickly and efficiently as possible. Now let's look at our deck by comparison:
Plan
Living End As Foretold is a combo deck attempting to set up the following gameplay scenario:
While opponent executes their gameplan, we fill our graveyard with creatures.
Create a game state where we can cast Living End to exchange the creature cards on the battlefield with those in the graveyard.
Using our board state advantage, we defeat our opponent in short order.
Just like the storm deck, we must ask ourselves which combination of cards allow us to execute our deck's three-step plan as quickly and efficiently as possible.
STEP 1
There are a number of ways to put creature cards in your graveyard in Modern. You can use mill spells, dredge spells, discard spells or allow creatures to enter the graveyard naturally through combat. Exploring the possibility of using these other methods in a Living End deck is a topic for another day, so let's just assume for now that the most efficient and effective way to stock the graveyard is through the cycling mechanic. Of the many creature cards that cycle, you must ask yourself which ones (and how many) are worth including in the deck. To me, Street Wraith stands out as the fastest, most efficient cycler in Modern. We will start with four copies of that card. Since it cycles for life and not mana, it also allows us to effectively play a 56 card deck, which is a tremendous advantage when you start looking at hypergeometric distributions, ratios and probabilities for As Foretold. After Street Wraith, we will need to fill out the number of cyclers based on how many we want to see early game and how many we will need to theoretically kill the opponent.
Step 2
This is the most important step for our deck and this is where we separate ourselves from the traditional Living End deck. As LEAF players, we believe that the most effective way to execute step two of our plan is use the combination of cycling creatures, Ancestral Vision and As Foretold to create a game state where we can find and cast Living End using As Foretold. This idea means a few things for our deck. First, we are committed, in part, to using blue mana so we can cast our spells. Second, it dictates that we must keep a critical minimum of cycling card in the deck at all times in order to find our pieces and execute our basic gameplan.
Step two also informs the type of support cards we play in the deck. Living End is part of a class of cards I've heard some professional Magic players describe as "textbox agnostic." With the exception of the persist/undying mechanics and a few others, the Living End effect does not change based on the power, toughness or keywords printed on creatures on the battlefield. Given that we are working toward enacting an immensely potent creature-based destruction effect, it stands to reason that the deck's support cards should focus on providing support in the context of non-creature spells. Stated another way, to avoid redundancy and to maximize the efficiency of our deck's most powerful effect and the other slots in our deck, we must rely almost exclusively on the Living End effect to fight against creatures on the battlefield.
Step 3
Step 3 for our deck is rather simple. We only need to make sure we are able to close out the game after casting Living End. This should be natural provided that we have enough high power creatures in the graveyard after Step 2.
So, to recap, based on what is required to execute these three steps above, our base deck must contain to the following:
I don´t want to be in the situation where I have to choose rather suspend AV or keep the Island for Spell Pierce. And I prefere to fill the graveyard with a creature rather than stop a IoK or Thougtseize.
All Magic decks in Modern have different choices that you will have to make as the game progresses. Our deck is no different. Learning how to sequence your cards is part of learning how to play a deck.
If we are a combo deck, which we are, I think we can't afford playing Spell Pierce or Spell Snare.
I disagree. The counterspells you mentioned are essential to furthering the deck's primary gameplan by allowing the deck to interact in a mana neutral or positive way with many of the threats and answers in Modern that can potentially beat our deck. They also interact well with a resolved As Foretold.
I don´t want to be in the situation where I have to choose rather suspend AV or keep the Island for Spell Pierce. And I prefere to fill the graveyard with a creature rather than stop a IoK or Thougtseize.
All Magic decks in Modern have different choices that you will have to make as the game progresses. Our deck is no different. Learning how to sequence your cards is part of learning how to play a deck.
If we are a combo deck, which we are, I think we can't afford playing Spell Pierce or Spell Snare.
I disagree. The counterspells you mentioned are essential to furthering the deck's primary gameplan by allowing the deck to interact in a mana neutral or positive way with many of the threats and answers in Modern that can potentially beat our deck. They also interact well with a resolved As Foretold.
I have to agree that you have to at least be able to survive the first few turns to make it out alive for the combo. Even the most recent deck that top 8'd (see below) played some sort of interaction to survive however they played swan song instead of spell pierce. They also main deck'd spell snare. I like swan song because living end and bouncing make it irrelevant. Swan song is also more relevant late game when they'll likely have more mana available. I do understand it makes us more vulnerable to planeswalkers and affinity, but I think that's a meta call and we also have ceremonious rejections for those.
I've never thought of censor, but I think it's perfect. You can remand a threat if it poses no immediate threat or censor it if it does. Censor pays off late game to keep drawing cards.
Hi folks! Loving the discussion and loving the deck. It's a blast to play and feels really strong. I've played about 40 matches with it on xmage over the last week and here's where I've ended up:
In general I agree with alittlecheeky, both in philosophy and counterspell choices.
With the version of the deck I'm playing, I feel like early game you want to be playing draw-Island-go. Operate in their turn, counter something or cycle. Let them resolve most creatures, you can tap them later with Cryptic Command and you want to be cycling as often as possible. The exception are cards like Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Scavenging Ooze, Meddling Mage which, depending on your hand, can be too annoying if resolved. That said, I feel like the most difficult part of the deck is choosing what you can and can't let through in the first few turns :).
Cards I like but I'm not playing at the moment:
Field of Ruin / Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
I started the week running 2 Fields and 1 Urborg but ended up taking them out one by one. I think they're both great but I ran into too many situations where I needed more blue sources. If my list wasn't quite as blue I think I could fit at least Urborg in, maybe both.
Censor / Supreme Will
I like both of these cards in the deck but I found the flexibility/power trade-off not exactly where I wanted it.
Drift of Phantasms / Savor the Moment
I really enjoyed running the two of these together. If you've already got an As Foretold out, tutoring up Savor with Drift felt really strong in long games. Savor was useful for helping speed up suspended cards as well. That said, I'm playing Vendilion Clique and Nimble Obstructionist in their place at the moment and they feel a little better.
Mana Leak
I'd love to fit one of these in but Spell Pierce and Spell Snare have been great mainboard and there I've prefered more targeted counterspells in the side.
Perilous Voyage
I tested this a little and it was pretty nice. It got squeezed out for other things, I may try it again.
Cards I'm playing that I haven't seen discussed yet Redirect - If I'm going to play this many Islands, I want to redirect Stone Rains rather than counter them Reality Shift - Just started testing this
Card I've tried and didn't like Commandeer - too cute , but may try again sometime Opt - early mana is so valuabe, I didn't like being put in the position of choosing between cycling or Opt-ing Quicken - casting a free Ancestral Vision or Living End in the opponents turn didn't feel like it was worth the slot Rewind - 4x 4CMC spells felt like enough already
I like swan song because living end and bouncing make it irrelevant. Swan song is also more relevant late game when they'll likely have more mana available. I do understand it makes us more vulnerable to planeswalkers and affinity, but I think that's a meta call and we also have ceremonious rejections for those.
I agree! I've been boarding it in a lot and have moved up to 3x.
I believe that the sideboard is the single most important part of our deck and, in my opinion, what has kept this deck from putting up results online or at major tournaments.
Also with the number of cards the deck sees in a game via cycling + Tolaria West, sideboard cards seem particularly good for us!
Hi guys/players/girls/idc, long time lurker in this thread, absolutely love the deck and i tried various combinations of the deck but i realy prefer the mono blue version like many others that have commented on this thread. I'm not that good of a player because I don't have the time to play many times only at my local fmn and i enjoy it.
I think our deck is pretty good in the meta right now with some tweaking left and right to make it able to compete head to head (or is it toe to toe?) with the other power decks that fills the meta right now such as jund, bogles, burn etc. BUT graveyard hate is still if not the major problem we face game 2 and 3 and some of my more experience friends talked about why not completely discards the living ends and the big serpents for some blue creatures to side for game 2 or 3 for the opponent will side the hell out of graveyard hate against us.
We keep the as foretold and ancestral vision in the deck and play a more control deck with some blue creature that doesn't cost too much too play and we slowly grind the game by killing them with some sphinx or whatever. We tried to think of some creature but we are still in the beginning process of thinking what to choose for the creatures.
I by preference, only play 3 le and the 4 serpents in the deck, if we take them out that makes 7 spots to fill with something. One of the reason why I wanna come up with this type of sideboard is because i saw some guy completely switching their dredge deck for hollow one by siding out and completely destroy the opponent sideboard and I was thinking why not us too, it could greatly counter the graveyard hate since we don't care about it and hardcast our creatures with as foretold or with mana and control the others play and slowly grind them out.
Sooooo what do you guys think? Any ideas of what could fill the 7 spots or maybe even more?
p.s sorry for my spelling please don't be too harsh on it
Hi Guys. I am happy to find this deck, I am mounting it in paper to play at FNM. I like to play Restore Balance and I have problems finding decks I have fun playing. This deck fits it! It is a combo and control deck, I love it.
The mono U version seems to be the best option to play. The cycle draws have sinergy with the mono U control philosofy.
I started playing this deck at Xmage with Serum Visions and Opt as any mono U control but we don't have space for those cards, cycling is always a better option (rather than scry).
The main weakness of this deck are grave-hate and some permanents that doesn't let us win the game. I played with a guy who casted Platinum Emperion and I couldn't answer it. (ok, I tried to run a budget version without Cryptic Command and yeah, 4x Cryptic Command is extremely necessary in this deck).
The most different card I am playing is Day's Undoing. I like to have a recycle just in case, even if its reshuffle my entire graveyard. I am open for other mono U recycle options if u guys know any.
Hi folks! Loving the discussion and loving the deck. Perilous Voyage
I tested this a little and it was pretty nice. It got squeezed out for other things, I may try it again.
I saw a question on reddit yesterday which asked why the deck has fallen out of favour.
The answer is straightforward.
The early, initial builds of the deck were mono U and also garbage. People managed to get a few 5-0s because the core of the deck is powerful, but nobody took it from there and refined the deck further.
I still see people here dragging any recent innovation back to clunky mono U lists and trying to run a dangerously high mana curve with no early interaction.
I mean it's great to have people playing the deck. It really is. But without anyone running a more optimised list, 'we' (as in the community surrounding this deck) will be collectively spinning our wheels and getting nowhere.
At this point I think you'd have to make a strong argument against running a small splash for either black or white. Mono U shouldn't be the 'standard' when it's essentially free to splash for a couple of powerful sideboard cards.
Next is the argument surrounding removal and/or interaction. I've been an advocate of 3x path to exile in the main, as well as a suite of early interaction such as spell pierce/snare. I don't overload on these (we're a combo deck after all) but from lots of testing and a deep familiarity with the format, I came to this conclusion. I run maybe 6-7 spells overall for this interactive purpose, which is about on par for other combo decks as well.
I'll post a list soon.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
In the local environment where I play, the goal is surrounded by:
- Jeskai Control
- Jeskai Agroo
- Humans
- Jund
- Ponza
- Eldrazi Tron
- Affinity
- Ad Nausean
- Burn
- U / W Control
- Storm
Where I relatively have an advantage over decks Combo, Controls and Ponza, however, Humans, Affinity, Burn, Storm and Tron, are 50-50 matches or I dare say 40-60, which need to come very well curved.
I intend to participate in the GP São Paulo (BR) with her, I tried to play from BR Hollow One, however, I do not have the skill "luck" needed for the deck.
I'm seriously thinking of getting the main deck from the following cards:
I like this deck a lot. I went 3-0 the first and only time I brought it to FNM last week. I ran mono blue but I think a white splash will be best (I dont got the lands right now) and I agree with people saying it needs early interaction and I plan on making some changes from what I ran the other night. I ran it with 14 cycle guys (no mb Nimble Obstructionist), 4 cryptics, 4 remands, 2 spell pierce, 2 search for azcanta and 4 of the combo pieces. Ill give a little tournament report.
Match 1 - b/w planeswalkers
This deck was playing wall of omens, lingering souls, Gideons, and Lilianas. Game one I was able to combo on turn 3 with two curator of mysteries in the yard. He had a wall of omens and tried to resolve a liliana on his turn 3 but i was able to spell pierce it. Game 2 he brought inrest in piece and was able to thought sieze/ surgical extraction my as foretold and I couldnt really get anything going. Game three I was also able to living end quickly and beat him down pretty fast.
Match 2 - 4 color Solemnity
They had a lot of ways to combo with solemnity but the deck wasnt very consistence and a few well time counters shut down what he was trying to do both matches. Was able to get a decent living end off pretty quickly both games killing devoted druids and didnt have much trouble.
Match 3 - storm
First game just kind of cycled things as he durdled on mana. By the time he got a goblin out I was able to living end while holding counter magic up and that was pretty much game. Second game went very similar. Not really sure how the storm match up is but these games were pretty simple.
It's been really quiet here and I really like the deck so hopefully by posting this we might get some traction back!
I played the following list to a 3-1-0 (intentional draw) for the prize split.
Match 1 - Affinity
Opponent comes out of the gates quick and dumps his hand with a steel overseer. I just cycle and remand his next plays until I can cast living end with as foretold. Had 10+ power in the yard so managed to take him down in 2 turns. (1-0)
+2 Faerie +1 EE +1 Collective Brutality +1 Pithing Needle
-2 Street Wraith -1 Cryptic -1 Search for Azcanta -1 Jace
Opponent has a slow start but tries to go for RIP on turn 3. I have a leak for it and he doesn't have a lot of pressure. I needle his cranial and when I living end he sacs his board to ravager. after he sac's ravager to himself I macabre his ravager and steel overseer in response. I get 4/4s and 5/5s back, he gets 0/2s and 1/1s. GG. (2-0)
Match 2 - Bant Knightfall
Opponent tries to take the control route by keeping up spell queller but I just cycle and counter his Collected Companies until I manage to resolve an As Foretold. Living End brings back a ton of creatures and he scoops (1-0)
+1 Dispel +1 cage +1 Tormod's +2 Nimble
-1 Cryptic -1 Azcanta -1 Jace -1 Architects -1 Wraith
Opponent gets some early pressure going with Knight but attacks with it instead of keeping it up to go get Bojuka bog. I manage to living end his board away. but don't have anything in the yard.
Opponent slowly rebuilds while I cycle. I play a tormod's crypt and cast living end. He spell queller's it, but I cycle nimble obstructionist in response countering it's activated ability, popping tormods crypt and killing the spell queller with living end. Opponent concedes after that.
Match 3 - Soulsisters
I take some early damage but stabilize after casting 3 ancestral visions in a row. 2 from suspend and 1 with livind end. I living end his board away and start going to work at his 40+ life total. He tries to resolve some more sisters but I have the counters up.
+1 crypt +2 Macabre +1 EE
-1 Azcanta -1 Cryptic -1 wraith -1 architects
This was a long game because I had to living end early to get rid of his early pressure but couldn't livind end after he rebuilt until I could get some of his creatures out of the yard. I finally did and got back striped and curator, bashed in 2x but then he had settle the wreckage. I resorted to hardcasting curators and riverwinders until I could kill him.
Match 4 - Merfolk
We split and played it out. He had vial twice, negating my counterspells and I durdled on getting As Foretold. He won the two games we played for fun.
I still really like the deck and the configuration I have now. Any feedback is greatly appreciated!
After losing too much against fast decks I have sort of given up for now. I have to admit that Jace, TMS doesn't seem great here, or, better said, he's great in the wrong matchups because those we generally win already anyway. 4 mana brainstorm isn't good enough against the problematic matchups, and sadly 4 mana triple unsummon also isn't good enough there because they either burn us out or have too wide a board.
Looking at the posted results of others, it seems better to go for cheap interaction and speeding up the combo. I still don't like Street Wraith in this deck because it's so bad against the fast decks that pressure your life total, but Nimble Obstructionist has been pretty great. It's very good against fx Storm, which is a pretty poor matchup as they're just a much faster combodeck. Having main deck spell pierce in addition to path would help a lot of course.
However, I thought of just going full-on combo, with a combo that wins the game on the spot (Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker + Deceiver Exarch) but can also be played normally to circumvent graveyard hate. Online I found a video (by Oren Lagziel, search for UR Living End Kiki) of someone playing a middle ground version of these 2 concepts by playing only 2 kiki and 4 untap creatures in a shell of 12 cyclers. I don't know what is better, but I first want to try this sort of all-in version:
I'm not playing Goryo's Vengeance and Griselbrand because they also (fully) rely on the graveyard and that makes it way weaker against graveyard hate as well as more a much more painful manabase. A quick Blood Moon also wins games which is not possible in a 3 color deck.
So far it goldfishes nicely to either a quick blood moon or combo kill, but the first real game I can play with it will be Thursday.
@brandioo1
Your Solemnity opponent seems to have had a nombo in their deck. Devoted Druid and Solemnity don't work together because the solemnity prevents you from being able to use the untap ability of the druid.
I'm not playing Goryo's Vengeance and Griselbrand because they also (fully) rely on the graveyard and that makes it way weaker against graveyard hate as well as more a much more painful manabase. A quick Blood Moon also wins games which is not possible in a 3 color deck.
So far it goldfishes nicely to either a quick blood moon or combo kill, but the first real game I can play with it will be Thursday.
Hi! I'm not against an UR version abusing discard and "living ending" into a insta combo win, but this deck seems to have several big issues.
I would say it's way more graveyard dependent that the average builds proposed here, since trying to hard cast and resolve a 5 mana triple red creature with only 14 red sources and 19 lands is not a reliable plan at all.
Plus you are worried about fast decks, but you've cut all interaction from your deck. You need a double discard outlet + 2 creatures + As Foretold + Living End in your opening 15 cards (let's say a couple more than 10-11 since you can cycle and serum visions) to be faster than them, and that's far from a reliable plan as well!
Any discard spell or graveyard interaction kills your win instantly, and I don't see how you can survive until you can cast the combo "naturally".
Hope you do great, but I wanted to give the input in case you want to tweak it a bit more before playing tomorrow!
Hi! I'm not against an UR version abusing discard and "living ending" into a insta combo win, but this deck seems to have several big issues.
I would say it's way more graveyard dependent that the average builds proposed here, since trying to hard cast and resolve a 5 mana triple red creature with only 14 red sources and 19 lands is not a reliable plan at all.
Plus you are worried about fast decks, but you've cut all interaction from your deck. You need a double discard outlet + 2 creatures + As Foretold + Living End in your opening 15 cards (let's say a couple more than 10-11 since you can cycle and serum visions) to be faster than them, and that's far from a reliable plan as well!
Any discard spell or graveyard interaction kills your win instantly, and I don't see how you can survive until you can cast the combo "naturally".
Hope you do great, but I wanted to give the input in case you want to tweak it a bit more before playing tomorrow!
Haven't played yet (I'll write about it when I have) but I think you're needlessly pessimistic.
First of all: the deck also has 4 Simian Spirit Guide, which are 4 more (red) mana sources. Also, the deck is full of draw, so finding land isn't an issue. Blood Moon also helps with getting to 3 red. The spirit guides are mainly fast mana, of course. A T1-2 (or even 3 on the play) blood moon can spell game over as well. I have found while goldfishing that I really only need to get 1 basic island to function properly under a blood moon.
I'd say this deck is perhaps a bit more graveyard-centric than typical cycling versions, but way less than the version incorporating Goryo's Vengeance. It has less interaction so it's less likely to win a very long game. On the other hand it's also much faster. I say "less interaction", btw, because it certainly doesn't have nothing. Izzet Charm doubles up as removal for problematic creatures and counterspell protection next to its primary use. I'd say this is pretty much on-par in regard to interaction for similar combo decks. Deceiver Exarch is also a great piece of 'interaction' as it can tap them out EoT, tap a potential lethal threat and block/chump another. In the Twin decks of old, I have won many a game on the back of deceiver tapping something down.
Next up, don't forget about Living End itself. I don't need to end the game directly with LE if it's a boardwipe that leaves the opponent with nothing. In most cases, I can safely LE again later to put my combo into play (or hardcast a missing piece if I already had something) without worrying about the creatures I put into play on their side. It takes some pretty specific creatures to break up my combo.
Lastly, there's the sideboard :). Playing UR gives me access to Anger of the Gods which is a very good way of beating the decks I had issues with previously. Finding AF LE on T3 in the cycling version is not consistent enough to be a reliable boardwipe against go-wide aggro decks with a t4 kill (or that leave you so low on t3 that wrathing their board t4 doesn't save you anymore). Being able to just win should also help a lot against combo decks such as storm.
All that said, I do of course realize that my 'combo' is pretty convoluted with needing 4 cards to actually win quickly, 2 of which I have to get into the GY first. Funnily enough, it has been much smoother/easier during goldfishing than I expected with everything as a 4-off. I'll play another FNM this Friday so I can adjust the list after tonight. I can see myself cutting 1 LE and Kiki for something like Remand. The other route could be to swap Serum Visions with Street Wraith for more speed and a back-door way of winning with LE. So far it has felt pretty good to go serum visions into looting though. That's a lot of digging.
R2 against Amulet Titan.
G1 he has a T2 Hive Mind which voids my T3 kill (could have been T2 with a Simian Spirit Guide on the top of my deck) even though he doesn't have a pact to cast yet. Pretty rough to run into this when Hive Mind is no longer commonly played in that deck.
G2 and 3 I have a quick Blood Moon and have all the time in the world to find my combo.
R3 against UR Breach
G1 I mulligan to a 6 without land but with monkey + Faithless Looting and scry an Island to the top. A few draw 2/discard 2 later I'm still stuck on 2 lands while he gets to 5 and tries to go for Breach/Emrakul, which I Izzet Charm. I proceed to draw nothing and I get emrakule'd later.
G2 we're playing draw go a while and on 6 mana he tries to go for Breach. I allow it to resolve and flash in an exarch pitching monkey to tap his emrakul. I untap and go for the combo but he has Surgical Extraction on my Kiki which is pretty harsh. We continue to play and I tap his Emrakul 2 more times, but he keeps finding answers (and has a Jace, TMS in play since T4) for my anemic beats that he eventually can emrakul me anyway. Pretty funny game, but Surgical is really the perfect hoser. I hadn't seen it in a while so that was unfortunate.
So, all in all it feels bad to have 1 kill combo only, but I'm not sure what would be a good plan. Perhaps Thing in the Ice as it avoids the graveyard hate, doesn't get bolted and is quick to flip in this deck. I could also try to put in more interaction such as Remand instead of Serum Visions. Or simply add cyclers to have a less anemic beat-down backup plan and something else to Living End in.
Probably going to only adjust it slightly for tomorrow because 3 matches (including the ultimate hate-list) is hardly enough to dismiss the deck.
Pre-board it has the grindy value plan of cycling creatures and bringing them back with Living End, cast either via As Foretold or Bring to Light.
Post-board against fast decks, remove the Remands and Ancestral Visions for 4 Violent Outburst and 3 Anger of the Gods (for Humans, Affinity, Dredge, anything with small bodies) or 3 Pulse of Murasa (Burn, Mardu Pyromancer, anything grindy). This allows you to cascade into Living End reliably, with the backup plans of As Foretold -> Living End, and Bring to Light -> Living End.
Against Tron and Valakut decks there's turn 2-3 Blood Moon. Search for Tomorrow helps find basic Islands, which is also the reason there are 6 fetches. I haven't played against much Tron, so the plan against these decks is very much up for debate. I haven't tried Damping Sphere yet. I would assume that it's not that good in this deck, but I try to base my choices on playtesting rather than assumptions.
The two worst cards are Valley Rannet and Search for Tomorrow. They're good in certain situations, like against control where you want to hit your land drops reliably and can start hardcasting your creatures. I think maindeck Anger of the Gods over Search for Tomorrow is also totally reasonable.
Simian Spirit Guide is really good for casting Violent Outburst, Cryptic Command, or Bring to Light a turn early. Turn 2 As Foretold also feels strong. It also helps manafix for Anger of the Gods. (As do Valley Rannet and Search for Tomorrow.)
Ultimately it's the instant speed Living End that makes the deck tick. So one option is to play Violent Outburst main, with Ancestral Vision in the side for grindy matchups. I haven't tested that configuration yet.
Speaking of instant speed Living End, we can also cast it off of As Foretold using Alchemist's Refuge on our opponent's turn, for instance. Refuge also lets us suspend Search for Tomorrow on our opponent's turn, cast Ancestral Vision on our opponent's turn, cast creatures on our opponent's turn, etc. This is huge against control. This makes Refuge a huge Field of Ruin target, which makes Pulse of Murasa feel so good versus grindy decks. You can also get back a cycler with Pulse for extra value.
But it does feel like this overall shell, somewhere between control and combo, feels like the right style of control for the current format. Gotta go fast. You really want to have access to turn 2 Living End, or turn 3 at the latest.
Oh, I should mention that I initially played around with leaving Remand in with Violent Outburst. Then you cascade into Remand, return the Outburst to hand and draw a card. It was just too cute and inconsistent. The strength of the deck lies in the many ways to cast Living End, from turns 2-5, some being instant speed.
One other shortcoming that I'm trying to fix is the inability to play Relic of Progenitus or Tormod's Crypt to eat our opponent's graveyard. We're totally reliant on Bojuka Bog for that. Thankfully the Tolaria West's are less pressured to grab Living End or AV, and can be used to grab Bog or Refuge more often. As the games go long, casting Living End to wipe your opponent's board, eating their yard, then casting another Living End to get back your own board becomes more important.
I implore people to test this deck out, please. There are lots of matchups that I haven't been able to test (Modern is a huge format now). And while it feels like a powerful deck, I'm completely open to suggestions.
It also takes a while to get into the right mindspace for the deck, similar to the original deck. I've been testing this Temur version for weeks with friends, and I still make sequencing errors. It really has a tremendous number of decision trees to account for once you get past turn 4. For example:
Do I use this Spirit Guide to cast As Foretold on turn 2, or save it so I can Cryptic on turn 3?
Do I play Tolaria West tapped on turn 1 so I can wipe my opponent's board with SSG+Violent Outburst on turn 2, or suspend Search for Tomorrow so I can Cryptic on turn 3?
I played 4 rounds and went 1-3 in some unfortunate events.
R1 I played against Eldrazi and Taxes. G1 he had almost no clock, but a Thalia, Guardian of Thraben while I cycled away in search of As Foretold and land to play it. When I finally found it and cast it, I had a Tolaria West in hand to search for the Living End the next turn and pay for it, knowing I couldn't be stopped anymore. He even had the TKS but could only see he was dead.
G2 He had Grafdigger's Cage (his first Modern event, he told me afterwards) but followed it up with Rest in Peace and Thalia. I played Engineered Explosives for X=1 to get 2 sunburst and blew up the thalia and RiP, after which I could LE for 1 Curator and wiping his board. This is where he found out Cage doesn't help against LE, hehe. I started hardcasting more Curators while casting a Ancestral Vision every turn thanks to a flipped Jace and eventually even had the Combo (hardcast Kiki) to force him to do something now and die to my flyers or just die to the combo, so a certain win for me. All felt pretty good in this match.
R2 I played against Paradoxial Engine combo, which I had never played against before and I made multiple horrible misplays to lose the match. I shot his Core Tapper instead of a mana artifact, which allowed him to put 2 counters on it and continue as if nothing happened, which turned my reasonable mull to 5 G3 into an impossible to win situation. Oh well, can't fault the deck for this because with all the counterspells, artifact destruction and surgicals, this should have been a fine matchup.
R3 I played against UR Storm. G1 I mull to 5, find nothing and die easily. G2 he mulls to a no-lander on 6 and I hardcast Kiki for the win before he can do anything. I could have stopped his fetch the turn before even but didn't want to show him the Nimble Obstructionist.
G3 I keep a 2lander and don't find a 3rd land ever in 7 draws or so. I could have kept a Faithless Looting while looting at some point to have more draws, but the odds of not finding land at the point I had to decide this were so low that seemed needlessly conservative. Such is life.
R4 I played against Abzan Delirium. G1 I flood out after cycling a bunch, finding nothing. G2 he misplays by not Abrupt Decaying my AF after T3 AF+AV and playing Liliana, the Last Hope instead, thinking he'll be fine. I Blood Moon him, taking away his green and a few turns later I put a bunch of creatures and the combo into play. G3 I try to control him while looking for a LE, which I don't find in the top half of my deck and die. I boarded out a LE here but that's possibly a mistake. Even though I don't need one fast, I do have to also take into account the possibility of it getting discarded (though that didn't happen this game) so perhaps down from 4 to 3 is fine but from 3 to 2 is not.
Even though the result was objectively worse than Thursday, the deck felt a lot better and robust than the all-in version. Also, Surgical Extraction felt like a really good inclusion in this deck because it allows me to tap out for AF without losing interaction potential against combodecks or other fast decks that use the GY. The Storm player remarked that his line was super greedy and would have lost to Surgical if I had it. All in all I'm probably going to try this version again. I also liked flip Jace in this deck, as well as Izzet Charm.
Green?
I have been testing a green splash. It offers a few useful tools.
Bring to light might be the biggest advantage of green. I believe getting the turn 3 or 4 as foretold combo will always be the main priority, but many games I can't find a combo piece and chaining cryptic commands tap/draw in to bring to light has helped. It can also double as a 5 mana draw 3.
Lignify is interesting. It is definitely not as strong as path to exile but could have some advantages over reality shift. Either way I don't think we can rely on just remand for ooze and Thalia.
Alchemist's Refuge is very cute but i'm not sure if it is worth it. I would have to test more but so far it has felt pretty bad in opening hands, and I think I've only used it once in the 5 or so games I've had it. The one time I did get an instant speed as foretold did feel really good.
I plan on testing a one of Rampaging Hippo or Greater Sandwurm in the Architects of Will slot. The back up plan of hard casting our creatures comes up enough where I think having another big threat that we can cast with out as foretold is pretty relevant.
Beyond that I have found Engineered Explosives to be a great interactive card that is tutor-able with tolaria west. Although any splash gets us here so it doesn't speak to much to the green splash.
Green also adds some interesting side board cards. Overall I think I like the green splash better than mono blue but a lot of that might just be Engineered Explosive. I haven't tested white yet but path to exile seems great and white has some pretty good side board options as well. Another idea is going bant for both path to exile and bring to light. That could also allow us to Engineered Explosives for 3 and bring to light at 3, but that might end up being too clunky. As I said before, I think getting the as foretold combo quickly should be the main goal of the deck so I think any change should preserve that. I plan on testing green more since it seems more unexplored than white.
I would love to here some thoughts on this list. Let me know what you think!
Pre-board it has the grindy value plan of cycling creatures and bringing them back with Living End, cast either via As Foretold or Bring to Light.
Post-board against fast decks, remove the Remands and Ancestral Visions for 4 Violent Outburst and 3 Anger of the Gods (for Humans, Affinity, Dredge, anything with small bodies) or 3 Pulse of Murasa (Burn, Mardu Pyromancer, anything grindy). This allows you to cascade into Living End reliably, with the backup plans of As Foretold -> Living End, and Bring to Light -> Living End.
Against Tron and Valakut decks there's turn 2-3 Blood Moon. Search for Tomorrow helps find basic Islands, which is also the reason there are 6 fetches. I haven't played against much Tron, so the plan against these decks is very much up for debate. I haven't tried Damping Sphere yet. I would assume that it's not that good in this deck, but I try to base my choices on playtesting rather than assumptions.
The two worst cards are Valley Rannet and Search for Tomorrow. They're good in certain situations, like against control where you want to hit your land drops reliably and can start hardcasting your creatures. I think maindeck Anger of the Gods over Search for Tomorrow is also totally reasonable.
Simian Spirit Guide is really good for casting Violent Outburst, Cryptic Command, or Bring to Light a turn early. Turn 2 As Foretold also feels strong. It also helps manafix for Anger of the Gods. (As do Valley Rannet and Search for Tomorrow.)
Ultimately it's the instant speed Living End that makes the deck tick. So one option is to play Violent Outburst main, with Ancestral Vision in the side for grindy matchups. I haven't tested that configuration yet.
Speaking of instant speed Living End, we can also cast it off of As Foretold using Alchemist's Refuge on our opponent's turn, for instance. Refuge also lets us suspend Search for Tomorrow on our opponent's turn, cast Ancestral Vision on our opponent's turn, cast creatures on our opponent's turn, etc. This is huge against control. This makes Refuge a huge Field of Ruin target, which makes Pulse of Murasa feel so good versus grindy decks. You can also get back a cycler with Pulse for extra value.
But it does feel like this overall shell, somewhere between control and combo, feels like the right style of control for the current format. Gotta go fast. You really want to have access to turn 2 Living End, or turn 3 at the latest.
Oh, I should mention that I initially played around with leaving Remand in with Violent Outburst. Then you cascade into Remand, return the Outburst to hand and draw a card. It was just too cute and inconsistent. The strength of the deck lies in the many ways to cast Living End, from turns 2-5, some being instant speed.
One other shortcoming that I'm trying to fix is the inability to play Relic of Progenitus or Tormod's Crypt to eat our opponent's graveyard. We're totally reliant on Bojuka Bog for that. Thankfully the Tolaria West's are less pressured to grab Living End or AV, and can be used to grab Bog or Refuge more often. As the games go long, casting Living End to wipe your opponent's board, eating their yard, then casting another Living End to get back your own board becomes more important.
I implore people to test this deck out, please. There are lots of matchups that I haven't been able to test (Modern is a huge format now). And while it feels like a powerful deck, I'm completely open to suggestions.
It also takes a while to get into the right mindspace for the deck, similar to the original deck. I've been testing this Temur version for weeks with friends, and I still make sequencing errors. It really has a tremendous number of decision trees to account for once you get past turn 4. For example:
Do I use this Spirit Guide to cast As Foretold on turn 2, or save it so I can Cryptic on turn 3?
Do I play Tolaria West tapped on turn 1 so I can wipe my opponent's board with SSG+Violent Outburst on turn 2, or suspend Search for Tomorrow so I can Cryptic on turn 3?
I really like this line of thinking. I don't own some of the cards, so can't test it myself yet. But please let us know how it performs in future tournaments!
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Not too bad I don't think. Worst thing is burn and graveyard hate, but we can cast our creatures anyway. Humans kinda sucks too, but I mean it got top 8 on Saturday...
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=18774&f=MO
1º Round - Jund
In the first match he started with Iok, and bob. I casted Path in his bob and I controlled the game, in the 5º turn I did As foretold and LE. He bring bob from exile to the game and didn't realize that. He came back to the game with bob and bbe. The second match I lost really fast. Got really worried about bob, but was my fault too. I need to pen more attention.
0-1
2º Round - Death and Taxes
Both matches the guy mull a lot trying to find Vial, but he didn't find it. I won really easy.
1-1
3º Round - Bant Reliquary
It was a really long match. I was controlling the game but he was always came back. We just had time to play 1 match and I won it.
1-2
4º Round - Rg Eldrazi
Nimble helped me a lot countering TKS trigger and other things. That version don't uses Chalice. In the second match I used condemn and settle the wreckage against the creatures, and stony Silence and disenchant against other things. It was a hard match but I won 2-1
1-3
5º Round -
We decide to go 1-1 and rest to the top 8
Top 8 - Scapshift
The first match I started with no counterspell in my hand, and He combo really easy. The second match I played 2x Leylines, but he kicked my ass with bbe two times. It's a hard match because he uses a lot of lands and our mana leak and remand become useless. The only card that can save you is cryptic command.
Here the list that a played today:
2 Street Wraith
2 Nimble Obstructionist
4 Curator of Mysteries
4 Striped Riverwinder
Enchantment
4 As Foretold
Land
3 Tolaria West
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Flooded Strand
4 Field of Ruin
1 Plains
3 Island
2 Spell Snare
4 Remand
1 Supreme Will
3 Cryptic Command
2 Mana Leak
4 Path to Exile
Sorcery
4 Ancestral Vision
3 Living End
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Detention Sphere
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Stony Silence
1 Pithing Needle
1 Settle the Wreckage
1 Spell Pierce
1 Condemn
1 Disenchant
1 Negate
UBlue EndU
BAd NauseamB
I've been playing this deck for three months and I've been following this thread for a while. I figure I would help out by sharing my insights and observations.
Overall Philosophy
As many others have stated, I believe that Mono Blue Living End As Foretold is a combo deck first and foremost. Yes, our deck plays more counterspells than virtually any other deck in the format, but our counterspells serve the purpose of protecting us until we assemble our combo. I hope that anyone who decides to pick this deck up understands that. I believe this deck, if built well, can compete with almost any deck in Modern. The deck is flexible, explosive and it attacks from a variety of angles.
Mono Blue versus U/W or U/B
I believe the mono blue version (with a slight black splash in the mana) is strongest. The reason? Heavy splashes for black or white add little to the deck's primary gameplan. Unless you are metagaming for a specific environment, the sideboard benefits of a heavy splash seem marginal at best. Whatever advantage is gained by improving 6-8 sideboard slots is most likely given back overall due to mana inconsistencies, loss of life and/or opening yourself up to Blood Moon. Splashing a second color in this Modern environment is not as free as many people believe it to be.
Countermagic
The most common suggestion I have for people playing this deck is to fix the countermagic. Think about the purpose of countermagic in our combo deck. As stated, we are looking to protect ourselves and buy time until we assemble living end/as foretold, wrath the board and take over the game. Our countermagic also helps us protect our hand against disruption and force through our combo versus opposing counterspells.
Here is how I evaluate the counterspells commonly played in Living End/As Foretold:
Cryptic Command (5 stars) - I believe that Living End As Foretold makes better use of Cryptic Command than any other deck in Modern. The card is tremendous when we're behind, at parody or ahead. It can buy time for Ancestral Vision, tap down blockers, bounce hate pieces, help us cycle through our deck, reset Bojuka Bog -- just awesome. I personally feel the full four copies are as untouchable in the maindeck as As Foretold itself.
Spell Pierce (5 stars) - The ideal counterspell. It does everything we want our countermagic to do. It protects against Inquisition of Kozilek and Thoughtseize in the early turns and it defends against most of the troublesome noncreature spells that we will see post-board. It also lets us smack around other blue decks and force through our combo. I've found this card to be an all-star in the deck. I personally run 3 copies in the maindeck and I can see myself going to the full 4 copies someday with more testing.
Remand (5 stars) - Remand is another incredible card for our deck. It buys us time, protects against early threats and it cycles to help us dig for our combo pieces. Remand isn't great in all matchups, but it's never actively bad and it furthers our gameplan by helping us find our pieces. It hits enough of Modern to where I believe the full playset is absolutely necessary in all builds.
Spell Snare (4 stars) - Some people dislike Spell Snare, but I find the card to be incredibly effective. It gives us game in our bad matchups and it helps us cement our good ones. Spell snare also hits Scavenging Ooze and Rest in Peace. I recommend 1-2 copies maindeck.
Mana Leak (3.5 stars) - Mana Leak is a perfectly fine card, however, I feel it falls short compared to the other options available. I've found that Mana Leak is just worse than Spell Pierce in our deck. It has the flexibility of countering creature spells and (potentially) answering threats permanently, but I've found that the cards we care about answering are either creatures that cost 1-2 mana or non-creature spells. In the later case, Spell Pierce is usually the better option.
Disallow (3 stars) - This is one of my favorite cards, but it's tough to justify space for Disallow in LEAF. Being a true hard counter is nice for when we untap after resolving Ancestral Vision or post-Living End, but I don't like how the card lines up with the rest of our deck's strategy. I will say though, that the ability to counter activated and triggered abilities is extremely relevant to the deck. Still, I wouldn't play more than a single copy in the 75.
Pact of Negation (1 star) - I don't believe we want this card in the deck. It actively hurts our primary gameplan since it is a dead draw on turns 1-4 where we need our countermagic the most. It has late game utility, but in the instances where we'd want to transmute for it with Tolaria West, I rather get something like Ancestral Vision or Bojuka Bog and reset the primary gameplan.
Sideboard
I believe that the sideboard is the single most important part of our deck and, in my opinion, what has kept this deck from putting up results online or at major tournaments. I may write a sideboard guide later based on what has worked well for me. That said, I like the idea of keeping the sideboard open since this deck is extremely difficult to play against if you don't know what to expect post-board. Also, the popularized version of the deck had a horrible sideboard.
Lastly, I want to thank 1310Hazzzard for creating such a sweet and fun deck! (I hope he's still reading this thread.) I've been having a blast playing it. I feel LEAF can be configured to have good-to-great matchups versus a number of the top decks in the format and it is one of the most exciting decks to pilot and watch at FNM
Hello, YellowMimic! I can relate to your situation. While play testing is important, I believe that you can significantly improve your deck by thinking critically about card choices, your deck's purpose, your deck's place in the metagame and the reason you play your deck. If you develop a true understanding of your deck, then the card choices should follow and you should be able to effectively pilot (and enjoy) the deck.
I work in education, so I rather help you understand how to think rather than doing the thinking for you. Let me walk you through some ideas that will help you along the way.
Conceptualization
Living End As Foretold is a combo deck. As a combo deck, all cards in our main deck must significantly advance the execution of our primary gameplan. (Modern is too efficient of a format for that not to be the case!) To understand combo better, take a look the most successful combo deck in Modern and see how their deck plan matches with their card choices:
Plan
U/R Gifts Storm is a combo deck looking to set up the following gameplay scenario:
4 Baral, Chief of Compliance
2 Goblin Electromancer
4 Sleight of Hand
3 Opt
4 Serum Visions
1 Unsubstantiate
2 Remand
1 Repeal
1 Mountain
4 Shivan Reef
2 Snow-Covered Island
4 Spirebluff Canal
4 Steam Vents
Step 2 Cards
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Manamorphose
4 Pyretic Ritual
2 Past in Flames
4 Gifts Ungiven
1 Noxious Revival
3 Grapeshot
Every one of the 60 cards in the main deck is working toward executing the deck's three-step plan as quickly and efficiently as possible. Now let's look at our deck by comparison:
Plan
Living End As Foretold is a combo deck attempting to set up the following gameplay scenario:
Just like the storm deck, we must ask ourselves which combination of cards allow us to execute our deck's three-step plan as quickly and efficiently as possible.
STEP 1
There are a number of ways to put creature cards in your graveyard in Modern. You can use mill spells, dredge spells, discard spells or allow creatures to enter the graveyard naturally through combat. Exploring the possibility of using these other methods in a Living End deck is a topic for another day, so let's just assume for now that the most efficient and effective way to stock the graveyard is through the cycling mechanic. Of the many creature cards that cycle, you must ask yourself which ones (and how many) are worth including in the deck. To me, Street Wraith stands out as the fastest, most efficient cycler in Modern. We will start with four copies of that card. Since it cycles for life and not mana, it also allows us to effectively play a 56 card deck, which is a tremendous advantage when you start looking at hypergeometric distributions, ratios and probabilities for As Foretold. After Street Wraith, we will need to fill out the number of cyclers based on how many we want to see early game and how many we will need to theoretically kill the opponent.
Step 2
This is the most important step for our deck and this is where we separate ourselves from the traditional Living End deck. As LEAF players, we believe that the most effective way to execute step two of our plan is use the combination of cycling creatures, Ancestral Vision and As Foretold to create a game state where we can find and cast Living End using As Foretold. This idea means a few things for our deck. First, we are committed, in part, to using blue mana so we can cast our spells. Second, it dictates that we must keep a critical minimum of cycling card in the deck at all times in order to find our pieces and execute our basic gameplan.
Step two also informs the type of support cards we play in the deck. Living End is part of a class of cards I've heard some professional Magic players describe as "textbox agnostic." With the exception of the persist/undying mechanics and a few others, the Living End effect does not change based on the power, toughness or keywords printed on creatures on the battlefield. Given that we are working toward enacting an immensely potent creature-based destruction effect, it stands to reason that the deck's support cards should focus on providing support in the context of non-creature spells. Stated another way, to avoid redundancy and to maximize the efficiency of our deck's most powerful effect and the other slots in our deck, we must rely almost exclusively on the Living End effect to fight against creatures on the battlefield.
Step 3
Step 3 for our deck is rather simple. We only need to make sure we are able to close out the game after casting Living End. This should be natural provided that we have enough high power creatures in the graveyard after Step 2.
So, to recap, based on what is required to execute these three steps above, our base deck must contain to the following:
Hopefully this should give you a good start on how to approach the deck, evaluate card choices and think about your card choices.
All Magic decks in Modern have different choices that you will have to make as the game progresses. Our deck is no different. Learning how to sequence your cards is part of learning how to play a deck.
I disagree. The counterspells you mentioned are essential to furthering the deck's primary gameplan by allowing the deck to interact in a mana neutral or positive way with many of the threats and answers in Modern that can potentially beat our deck. They also interact well with a resolved As Foretold.
I have to agree that you have to at least be able to survive the first few turns to make it out alive for the combo. Even the most recent deck that top 8'd (see below) played some sort of interaction to survive however they played swan song instead of spell pierce. They also main deck'd spell snare. I like swan song because living end and bouncing make it irrelevant. Swan song is also more relevant late game when they'll likely have more mana available. I do understand it makes us more vulnerable to planeswalkers and affinity, but I think that's a meta call and we also have ceremonious rejections for those.
I've never thought of censor, but I think it's perfect. You can remand a threat if it poses no immediate threat or censor it if it does. Censor pays off late game to keep drawing cards.
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=18774&d=317446&f=MO
15 Island
3 Tolaria West
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Ghost Quarter
Creatures (14)
4 Curator of Mysteries
4 Striped Riverwinder
4 Street Wraith
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Nimble Obstructionist
Counterspells (14)
4 Cryptic Command
4 Remand
3 Spell Pierce
3 Spell Snare
4 Living End
4 Ancestral Vision
3 Faerie Macabre
1 Surgical Extraction
3 Ceremonious Rejection
3 Swan Song
2 Reality Shift
1 Redirect
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Chalice of the Void
In general I agree with alittlecheeky, both in philosophy and counterspell choices.
With the version of the deck I'm playing, I feel like early game you want to be playing draw-Island-go. Operate in their turn, counter something or cycle. Let them resolve most creatures, you can tap them later with Cryptic Command and you want to be cycling as often as possible. The exception are cards like Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Scavenging Ooze, Meddling Mage which, depending on your hand, can be too annoying if resolved. That said, I feel like the most difficult part of the deck is choosing what you can and can't let through in the first few turns :).
Cards I like but I'm not playing at the moment:
Field of Ruin / Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
I started the week running 2 Fields and 1 Urborg but ended up taking them out one by one. I think they're both great but I ran into too many situations where I needed more blue sources. If my list wasn't quite as blue I think I could fit at least Urborg in, maybe both.
Censor / Supreme Will
I like both of these cards in the deck but I found the flexibility/power trade-off not exactly where I wanted it.
Drift of Phantasms / Savor the Moment
I really enjoyed running the two of these together. If you've already got an As Foretold out, tutoring up Savor with Drift felt really strong in long games. Savor was useful for helping speed up suspended cards as well. That said, I'm playing Vendilion Clique and Nimble Obstructionist in their place at the moment and they feel a little better.
Mana Leak
I'd love to fit one of these in but Spell Pierce and Spell Snare have been great mainboard and there I've prefered more targeted counterspells in the side.
Perilous Voyage
I tested this a little and it was pretty nice. It got squeezed out for other things, I may try it again.
Cards I'm playing that I haven't seen discussed yet
Redirect - If I'm going to play this many Islands, I want to redirect Stone Rains rather than counter them
Reality Shift - Just started testing this
Card I've tried and didn't like
Commandeer - too cute , but may try again sometime
Opt - early mana is so valuabe, I didn't like being put in the position of choosing between cycling or Opt-ing
Quicken - casting a free Ancestral Vision or Living End in the opponents turn didn't feel like it was worth the slot
Rewind - 4x 4CMC spells felt like enough already
Cards I'd like to explore further
Condescend
Search for Azcanta
Spontaneous Mutation
Spellstutter Sprite
Boomerang
Delay
Gigadrowse
Other ways of combining Living End & As Foretold
I'd love to try a more reanimator-y version at some point (Goryo's As Foretold). Maybe using Vizier of Tumbling Sands & Jace, Vryn's Prodigy? Maybe a completely different direction involving creatures like Wild Cantor/Sakura-Tribe Elder and Journey to Eternity
I agree! I've been boarding it in a lot and have moved up to 3x.
Also with the number of cards the deck sees in a game via cycling + Tolaria West, sideboard cards seem particularly good for us!
Hello guys,
I follow whenever possible the topic, so to improve the discussions, follows a result outside the LEAF framework:
3rd Place at SCG Modern IQ Columbia.
1 Drift of Phantasms
3 Architects of Will
4 Curator of Mysteries
3 Street Wraith
4 Striped Riverwinder
Spells (19)
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Living End
2 Mana Leak
4 Remand
2 Supreme Will
3 Cryptic Command
1 Tormod's Crypt
Enchantments (4)
4 As Foretold
Lands (21)
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Field of Ruin
12 Island
4 Tolaria West
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Dispel
2 Dismember
2 Nimble Obstructionist
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Leyline of the Void
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1006609#paper
UB Living End as Foretold
R Skred Dragons
CKCI
I think our deck is pretty good in the meta right now with some tweaking left and right to make it able to compete head to head (or is it toe to toe?) with the other power decks that fills the meta right now such as jund, bogles, burn etc. BUT graveyard hate is still if not the major problem we face game 2 and 3 and some of my more experience friends talked about why not completely discards the living ends and the big serpents for some blue creatures to side for game 2 or 3 for the opponent will side the hell out of graveyard hate against us.
We keep the as foretold and ancestral vision in the deck and play a more control deck with some blue creature that doesn't cost too much too play and we slowly grind the game by killing them with some sphinx or whatever. We tried to think of some creature but we are still in the beginning process of thinking what to choose for the creatures.
I by preference, only play 3 le and the 4 serpents in the deck, if we take them out that makes 7 spots to fill with something. One of the reason why I wanna come up with this type of sideboard is because i saw some guy completely switching their dredge deck for hollow one by siding out and completely destroy the opponent sideboard and I was thinking why not us too, it could greatly counter the graveyard hate since we don't care about it and hardcast our creatures with as foretold or with mana and control the others play and slowly grind them out.
Sooooo what do you guys think? Any ideas of what could fill the 7 spots or maybe even more?
p.s sorry for my spelling please don't be too harsh on it
The mono U version seems to be the best option to play. The cycle draws have sinergy with the mono U control philosofy.
I started playing this deck at Xmage with Serum Visions and Opt as any mono U control but we don't have space for those cards, cycling is always a better option (rather than scry).
The main weakness of this deck are grave-hate and some permanents that doesn't let us win the game. I played with a guy who casted Platinum Emperion and I couldn't answer it. (ok, I tried to run a budget version without Cryptic Command and yeah, 4x Cryptic Command is extremely necessary in this deck).
The list I am currently testing is:
14 Island
4 Tolaria West
1 Bojuka Bog
Creatures (14)
4 Curator of Mysteries
4 Striped Riverwinder
4 Street Wraith
2 Drift of Phantasms
Counterspells (12)
4 Cryptic Command
4 Remand
4 Spell Pierce
4 As Foretold
3 Living End
4 Ancestral Vision
Useful (4)
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Search for Azcanta
1 Day's Undoing
I am still not sure about sideboarding but here are good options to start with:
Nimble Obstructionist
Tormod's Crypt
Ravenous Trap
Leyline of the Void
The most different card I am playing is Day's Undoing. I like to have a recycle just in case, even if its reshuffle my entire graveyard. I am open for other mono U recycle options if u guys know any.
-------------------------
You should consider Into The Roil, it is another option (and probably better).
The answer is straightforward.
The early, initial builds of the deck were mono U and also garbage. People managed to get a few 5-0s because the core of the deck is powerful, but nobody took it from there and refined the deck further.
I still see people here dragging any recent innovation back to clunky mono U lists and trying to run a dangerously high mana curve with no early interaction.
I mean it's great to have people playing the deck. It really is. But without anyone running a more optimised list, 'we' (as in the community surrounding this deck) will be collectively spinning our wheels and getting nowhere.
At this point I think you'd have to make a strong argument against running a small splash for either black or white. Mono U shouldn't be the 'standard' when it's essentially free to splash for a couple of powerful sideboard cards.
Next is the argument surrounding removal and/or interaction. I've been an advocate of 3x path to exile in the main, as well as a suite of early interaction such as spell pierce/snare. I don't overload on these (we're a combo deck after all) but from lots of testing and a deep familiarity with the format, I came to this conclusion. I run maybe 6-7 spells overall for this interactive purpose, which is about on par for other combo decks as well.
I'll post a list soon.
In the local environment where I play, the goal is surrounded by:
- Jeskai Control
- Jeskai Agroo
- Humans
- Jund
- Ponza
- Eldrazi Tron
- Affinity
- Ad Nausean
- Burn
- U / W Control
- Storm
Where I relatively have an advantage over decks Combo, Controls and Ponza, however, Humans, Affinity, Burn, Storm and Tron, are 50-50 matches or I dare say 40-60, which need to come very well curved.
My current list is this:
4 Street Wraith
4 Striped Riverwinder
4 Curator of Mysteries
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Nimble Obstructionist
Spells (21)
4 Remand
3 Cryptic Command
2 Disallow
2 Mana Leak
3 Living End
2 Spell Pierce
4 Ancestral Vision
1 Supreme Will
4 As Foretold
Artifacts (1)
1 Engineered Explosives
Lands (20)
3 Field of Ruin
10 Island
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Tolaria West
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Dispel
2 Dismember
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Nimble Obstructionist
I intend to participate in the GP São Paulo (BR) with her, I tried to play from BR Hollow One, however, I do not have the skill "luck" needed for the deck.
I'm seriously thinking of getting the main deck from the following cards:
Vendilion Clique
Nimble Obstructionist
And replace with 2x Architects of Will
Since the purpose of the deck is to solve as soon as possible an As Foretold + Living End.
I like the Vendilion Clique a lot, because besides being a block or a new threat, it still helps me to remove some threats.
What do you think of my composition? any suggestion or theorycraft?
UB Living End as Foretold
R Skred Dragons
CKCI
I like this deck a lot. I went 3-0 the first and only time I brought it to FNM last week. I ran mono blue but I think a white splash will be best (I dont got the lands right now) and I agree with people saying it needs early interaction and I plan on making some changes from what I ran the other night. I ran it with 14 cycle guys (no mb Nimble Obstructionist), 4 cryptics, 4 remands, 2 spell pierce, 2 search for azcanta and 4 of the combo pieces. Ill give a little tournament report.
Match 1 - b/w planeswalkers
This deck was playing wall of omens, lingering souls, Gideons, and Lilianas. Game one I was able to combo on turn 3 with two curator of mysteries in the yard. He had a wall of omens and tried to resolve a liliana on his turn 3 but i was able to spell pierce it. Game 2 he brought inrest in piece and was able to thought sieze/ surgical extraction my as foretold and I couldnt really get anything going. Game three I was also able to living end quickly and beat him down pretty fast.
Match 2 - 4 color Solemnity
They had a lot of ways to combo with solemnity but the deck wasnt very consistence and a few well time counters shut down what he was trying to do both matches. Was able to get a decent living end off pretty quickly both games killing devoted druids and didnt have much trouble.
Match 3 - storm
First game just kind of cycled things as he durdled on mana. By the time he got a goblin out I was able to living end while holding counter magic up and that was pretty much game. Second game went very similar. Not really sure how the storm match up is but these games were pretty simple.
It's been really quiet here and I really like the deck so hopefully by posting this we might get some traction back!
I played the following list to a 3-1-0 (intentional draw) for the prize split.
1 Ghost Quarter
2 river of tears
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
7 Island
1 Swamp
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 Sunken Ruins
3 Tolaria West
2 Architects of Will
4 Curator of Mysteries
4 Street Wraith
4 Striped Riverwinder
1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
4 Ancestral Vision
3 Cryptic Command
4 Living End
4 Remand
2 Mana Leak
1 Disallow
1 Supreme Will
4 As Foretold
1 Search for Azcanta
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
3 Collective Brutality
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Nimble Obstructionist
3 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Faerie Maccabre
Match 1 - Affinity
Opponent comes out of the gates quick and dumps his hand with a steel overseer. I just cycle and remand his next plays until I can cast living end with as foretold. Had 10+ power in the yard so managed to take him down in 2 turns. (1-0)
+2 Faerie +1 EE +1 Collective Brutality +1 Pithing Needle
-2 Street Wraith -1 Cryptic -1 Search for Azcanta -1 Jace
Opponent has a slow start but tries to go for RIP on turn 3. I have a leak for it and he doesn't have a lot of pressure. I needle his cranial and when I living end he sacs his board to ravager. after he sac's ravager to himself I macabre his ravager and steel overseer in response. I get 4/4s and 5/5s back, he gets 0/2s and 1/1s. GG. (2-0)
Match 2 - Bant Knightfall
Opponent tries to take the control route by keeping up spell queller but I just cycle and counter his Collected Companies until I manage to resolve an As Foretold. Living End brings back a ton of creatures and he scoops (1-0)
+1 Dispel +1 cage +1 Tormod's +2 Nimble
-1 Cryptic -1 Azcanta -1 Jace -1 Architects -1 Wraith
Opponent gets some early pressure going with Knight but attacks with it instead of keeping it up to go get Bojuka bog. I manage to living end his board away. but don't have anything in the yard.
Opponent slowly rebuilds while I cycle. I play a tormod's crypt and cast living end. He spell queller's it, but I cycle nimble obstructionist in response countering it's activated ability, popping tormods crypt and killing the spell queller with living end. Opponent concedes after that.
Match 3 - Soulsisters
I take some early damage but stabilize after casting 3 ancestral visions in a row. 2 from suspend and 1 with livind end. I living end his board away and start going to work at his 40+ life total. He tries to resolve some more sisters but I have the counters up.
+1 crypt +2 Macabre +1 EE
-1 Azcanta -1 Cryptic -1 wraith -1 architects
This was a long game because I had to living end early to get rid of his early pressure but couldn't livind end after he rebuilt until I could get some of his creatures out of the yard. I finally did and got back striped and curator, bashed in 2x but then he had settle the wreckage. I resorted to hardcasting curators and riverwinders until I could kill him.
Match 4 - Merfolk
We split and played it out. He had vial twice, negating my counterspells and I durdled on getting As Foretold. He won the two games we played for fun.
I still really like the deck and the configuration I have now. Any feedback is greatly appreciated!
Looking at the posted results of others, it seems better to go for cheap interaction and speeding up the combo. I still don't like Street Wraith in this deck because it's so bad against the fast decks that pressure your life total, but Nimble Obstructionist has been pretty great. It's very good against fx Storm, which is a pretty poor matchup as they're just a much faster combodeck. Having main deck spell pierce in addition to path would help a lot of course.
However, I thought of just going full-on combo, with a combo that wins the game on the spot (Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker + Deceiver Exarch) but can also be played normally to circumvent graveyard hate. Online I found a video (by Oren Lagziel, search for UR Living End Kiki) of someone playing a middle ground version of these 2 concepts by playing only 2 kiki and 4 untap creatures in a shell of 12 cyclers. I don't know what is better, but I first want to try this sort of all-in version:
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Flooded Strand
2 Steam Vents
1 Mountain
3 Island
4 Spirebluff Canal
2 Tolaria West
Creatures (14)
2 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Deceiver Exarch
4 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Living End
4 Serum Visions
4 Faithless Looting
4 Izzet Charm
1 Manamorphose
2 Blood Moon
4 As Foretold
2 Abrade
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Dispel
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Lightning Axe
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Blood Moon
I'm not playing Goryo's Vengeance and Griselbrand because they also (fully) rely on the graveyard and that makes it way weaker against graveyard hate as well as more a much more painful manabase. A quick Blood Moon also wins games which is not possible in a 3 color deck.
So far it goldfishes nicely to either a quick blood moon or combo kill, but the first real game I can play with it will be Thursday.
@brandioo1
Your Solemnity opponent seems to have had a nombo in their deck. Devoted Druid and Solemnity don't work together because the solemnity prevents you from being able to use the untap ability of the druid.
Looking forward to your results. If it's not to much of a hassle, please provide a short tournament report
Hi! I'm not against an UR version abusing discard and "living ending" into a insta combo win, but this deck seems to have several big issues.
I would say it's way more graveyard dependent that the average builds proposed here, since trying to hard cast and resolve a 5 mana triple red creature with only 14 red sources and 19 lands is not a reliable plan at all.
Plus you are worried about fast decks, but you've cut all interaction from your deck. You need a double discard outlet + 2 creatures + As Foretold + Living End in your opening 15 cards (let's say a couple more than 10-11 since you can cycle and serum visions) to be faster than them, and that's far from a reliable plan as well!
Any discard spell or graveyard interaction kills your win instantly, and I don't see how you can survive until you can cast the combo "naturally".
Hope you do great, but I wanted to give the input in case you want to tweak it a bit more before playing tomorrow!
Haven't played yet (I'll write about it when I have) but I think you're needlessly pessimistic.
First of all: the deck also has 4 Simian Spirit Guide, which are 4 more (red) mana sources. Also, the deck is full of draw, so finding land isn't an issue. Blood Moon also helps with getting to 3 red. The spirit guides are mainly fast mana, of course. A T1-2 (or even 3 on the play) blood moon can spell game over as well. I have found while goldfishing that I really only need to get 1 basic island to function properly under a blood moon.
I'd say this deck is perhaps a bit more graveyard-centric than typical cycling versions, but way less than the version incorporating Goryo's Vengeance. It has less interaction so it's less likely to win a very long game. On the other hand it's also much faster. I say "less interaction", btw, because it certainly doesn't have nothing. Izzet Charm doubles up as removal for problematic creatures and counterspell protection next to its primary use. I'd say this is pretty much on-par in regard to interaction for similar combo decks. Deceiver Exarch is also a great piece of 'interaction' as it can tap them out EoT, tap a potential lethal threat and block/chump another. In the Twin decks of old, I have won many a game on the back of deceiver tapping something down.
Next up, don't forget about Living End itself. I don't need to end the game directly with LE if it's a boardwipe that leaves the opponent with nothing. In most cases, I can safely LE again later to put my combo into play (or hardcast a missing piece if I already had something) without worrying about the creatures I put into play on their side. It takes some pretty specific creatures to break up my combo.
Lastly, there's the sideboard :). Playing UR gives me access to Anger of the Gods which is a very good way of beating the decks I had issues with previously. Finding AF LE on T3 in the cycling version is not consistent enough to be a reliable boardwipe against go-wide aggro decks with a t4 kill (or that leave you so low on t3 that wrathing their board t4 doesn't save you anymore). Being able to just win should also help a lot against combo decks such as storm.
All that said, I do of course realize that my 'combo' is pretty convoluted with needing 4 cards to actually win quickly, 2 of which I have to get into the GY first. Funnily enough, it has been much smoother/easier during goldfishing than I expected with everything as a 4-off. I'll play another FNM this Friday so I can adjust the list after tonight. I can see myself cutting 1 LE and Kiki for something like Remand. The other route could be to swap Serum Visions with Street Wraith for more speed and a back-door way of winning with LE. So far it has felt pretty good to go serum visions into looting though. That's a lot of digging.
So I played 3 matches tonight and went 1-2.
R1 against Tezzerator with Thopter/Sword combo.
G1 gets Grafdigger's Cage with Whir of Invention to stop me from comboing him quickly. Then he whirs for Sorcerous Spyglass and sees the combo so he names Kiki. My only out at this point is anemic beats or Jace, Vryn's Prodigy ultimate but he also finds Ensnaring Bridge, Witchbane Orb and Chalice of the Void on 0. Yeah..
G2 I have T2 Blood Moon and Abrade in hand but he has Welding Jar and Ratchet Bomb. I kept a 2lander and never find 3rd land in an insane number of draws so I can't quickly enough cast and flip jace to double abrade. This deck plays way too much hate.
R2 against Amulet Titan.
G1 he has a T2 Hive Mind which voids my T3 kill (could have been T2 with a Simian Spirit Guide on the top of my deck) even though he doesn't have a pact to cast yet. Pretty rough to run into this when Hive Mind is no longer commonly played in that deck.
G2 and 3 I have a quick Blood Moon and have all the time in the world to find my combo.
R3 against UR Breach
G1 I mulligan to a 6 without land but with monkey + Faithless Looting and scry an Island to the top. A few draw 2/discard 2 later I'm still stuck on 2 lands while he gets to 5 and tries to go for Breach/Emrakul, which I Izzet Charm. I proceed to draw nothing and I get emrakule'd later.
G2 we're playing draw go a while and on 6 mana he tries to go for Breach. I allow it to resolve and flash in an exarch pitching monkey to tap his emrakul. I untap and go for the combo but he has Surgical Extraction on my Kiki which is pretty harsh. We continue to play and I tap his Emrakul 2 more times, but he keeps finding answers (and has a Jace, TMS in play since T4) for my anemic beats that he eventually can emrakul me anyway. Pretty funny game, but Surgical is really the perfect hoser. I hadn't seen it in a while so that was unfortunate.
So, all in all it feels bad to have 1 kill combo only, but I'm not sure what would be a good plan. Perhaps Thing in the Ice as it avoids the graveyard hate, doesn't get bolted and is quick to flip in this deck. I could also try to put in more interaction such as Remand instead of Serum Visions. Or simply add cyclers to have a less anemic beat-down backup plan and something else to Living End in.
Probably going to only adjust it slightly for tomorrow because 3 matches (including the ultimate hate-list) is hardly enough to dismiss the deck.
4 Cryptic Command
4 As Foretold
3 Living End
3 Ancestral Vision
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Search for Tomorrow
4 Curator of Mysteries
4 Striped Riverwinder
4 Street Wraith
2 Valley Rannet
2 Bring to Light
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Alchemist's Refuge
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Grounds
2 Sulfur Falls
2 Botanical Sanctum
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Forest
4 Violent Outburst
3 Pulse of Murasa
3 Anger of the Gods
3 Blood Moon
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Pre-board it has the grindy value plan of cycling creatures and bringing them back with Living End, cast either via As Foretold or Bring to Light.
Post-board against fast decks, remove the Remands and Ancestral Visions for 4 Violent Outburst and 3 Anger of the Gods (for Humans, Affinity, Dredge, anything with small bodies) or 3 Pulse of Murasa (Burn, Mardu Pyromancer, anything grindy). This allows you to cascade into Living End reliably, with the backup plans of As Foretold -> Living End, and Bring to Light -> Living End.
Against Tron and Valakut decks there's turn 2-3 Blood Moon. Search for Tomorrow helps find basic Islands, which is also the reason there are 6 fetches. I haven't played against much Tron, so the plan against these decks is very much up for debate. I haven't tried Damping Sphere yet. I would assume that it's not that good in this deck, but I try to base my choices on playtesting rather than assumptions.
The two worst cards are Valley Rannet and Search for Tomorrow. They're good in certain situations, like against control where you want to hit your land drops reliably and can start hardcasting your creatures. I think maindeck Anger of the Gods over Search for Tomorrow is also totally reasonable.
Simian Spirit Guide is really good for casting Violent Outburst, Cryptic Command, or Bring to Light a turn early. Turn 2 As Foretold also feels strong. It also helps manafix for Anger of the Gods. (As do Valley Rannet and Search for Tomorrow.)
Ultimately it's the instant speed Living End that makes the deck tick. So one option is to play Violent Outburst main, with Ancestral Vision in the side for grindy matchups. I haven't tested that configuration yet.
Speaking of instant speed Living End, we can also cast it off of As Foretold using Alchemist's Refuge on our opponent's turn, for instance. Refuge also lets us suspend Search for Tomorrow on our opponent's turn, cast Ancestral Vision on our opponent's turn, cast creatures on our opponent's turn, etc. This is huge against control. This makes Refuge a huge Field of Ruin target, which makes Pulse of Murasa feel so good versus grindy decks. You can also get back a cycler with Pulse for extra value.
But it does feel like this overall shell, somewhere between control and combo, feels like the right style of control for the current format. Gotta go fast. You really want to have access to turn 2 Living End, or turn 3 at the latest.
Oh, I should mention that I initially played around with leaving Remand in with Violent Outburst. Then you cascade into Remand, return the Outburst to hand and draw a card. It was just too cute and inconsistent. The strength of the deck lies in the many ways to cast Living End, from turns 2-5, some being instant speed.
One other shortcoming that I'm trying to fix is the inability to play Relic of Progenitus or Tormod's Crypt to eat our opponent's graveyard. We're totally reliant on Bojuka Bog for that. Thankfully the Tolaria West's are less pressured to grab Living End or AV, and can be used to grab Bog or Refuge more often. As the games go long, casting Living End to wipe your opponent's board, eating their yard, then casting another Living End to get back your own board becomes more important.
I implore people to test this deck out, please. There are lots of matchups that I haven't been able to test (Modern is a huge format now). And while it feels like a powerful deck, I'm completely open to suggestions.
It also takes a while to get into the right mindspace for the deck, similar to the original deck. I've been testing this Temur version for weeks with friends, and I still make sequencing errors. It really has a tremendous number of decision trees to account for once you get past turn 4. For example:
Do I use this Spirit Guide to cast As Foretold on turn 2, or save it so I can Cryptic on turn 3?
Do I play Tolaria West tapped on turn 1 so I can wipe my opponent's board with SSG+Violent Outburst on turn 2, or suspend Search for Tomorrow so I can Cryptic on turn 3?
I know, but he didn't. Should have said "try to stop me", unfortunately he played the spyglass shortly after so it didn't matter.
Anyway, I played in another FNM last Friday with the following list:
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
2 Steam Vents
1 Mountain
4 Island
3 Spirebluff Canal
1 Tolaria West
1 Cascade Bluffs
Creatures (19)
2 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
2 Deceiver Exarch
1 Nimble Obstructionist
4 Curator of Mysteries
4 Street Wraith
2 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
4 Striped Riverwinder
4 Ancestral Vision
3 Living End
4 Faithless Looting
4 Izzet Charm
2 Blood Moon
4 As Foretold
2 Abrade
2 Anger of the Gods
3 Dispel
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Nimble Obstructionist
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Cryptic Command
1 Engineered Explosives
I played 4 rounds and went 1-3 in some unfortunate events.
R1 I played against Eldrazi and Taxes. G1 he had almost no clock, but a Thalia, Guardian of Thraben while I cycled away in search of As Foretold and land to play it. When I finally found it and cast it, I had a Tolaria West in hand to search for the Living End the next turn and pay for it, knowing I couldn't be stopped anymore. He even had the TKS but could only see he was dead.
G2 He had Grafdigger's Cage (his first Modern event, he told me afterwards) but followed it up with Rest in Peace and Thalia. I played Engineered Explosives for X=1 to get 2 sunburst and blew up the thalia and RiP, after which I could LE for 1 Curator and wiping his board. This is where he found out Cage doesn't help against LE, hehe. I started hardcasting more Curators while casting a Ancestral Vision every turn thanks to a flipped Jace and eventually even had the Combo (hardcast Kiki) to force him to do something now and die to my flyers or just die to the combo, so a certain win for me. All felt pretty good in this match.
R2 I played against Paradoxial Engine combo, which I had never played against before and I made multiple horrible misplays to lose the match. I shot his Core Tapper instead of a mana artifact, which allowed him to put 2 counters on it and continue as if nothing happened, which turned my reasonable mull to 5 G3 into an impossible to win situation. Oh well, can't fault the deck for this because with all the counterspells, artifact destruction and surgicals, this should have been a fine matchup.
R3 I played against UR Storm. G1 I mull to 5, find nothing and die easily. G2 he mulls to a no-lander on 6 and I hardcast Kiki for the win before he can do anything. I could have stopped his fetch the turn before even but didn't want to show him the Nimble Obstructionist.
G3 I keep a 2lander and don't find a 3rd land ever in 7 draws or so. I could have kept a Faithless Looting while looting at some point to have more draws, but the odds of not finding land at the point I had to decide this were so low that seemed needlessly conservative. Such is life.
R4 I played against Abzan Delirium. G1 I flood out after cycling a bunch, finding nothing. G2 he misplays by not Abrupt Decaying my AF after T3 AF+AV and playing Liliana, the Last Hope instead, thinking he'll be fine. I Blood Moon him, taking away his green and a few turns later I put a bunch of creatures and the combo into play. G3 I try to control him while looking for a LE, which I don't find in the top half of my deck and die. I boarded out a LE here but that's possibly a mistake. Even though I don't need one fast, I do have to also take into account the possibility of it getting discarded (though that didn't happen this game) so perhaps down from 4 to 3 is fine but from 3 to 2 is not.
Even though the result was objectively worse than Thursday, the deck felt a lot better and robust than the all-in version. Also, Surgical Extraction felt like a really good inclusion in this deck because it allows me to tap out for AF without losing interaction potential against combodecks or other fast decks that use the GY. The Storm player remarked that his line was super greedy and would have lost to Surgical if I had it. All in all I'm probably going to try this version again. I also liked flip Jace in this deck, as well as Izzet Charm.
1x Alchemist's Refuge
4x Botanical Sanctum
2x Field of Ruin
1x Forest
10x Island
3x Tolaria West
Sorcery (9)
4x Ancestral Vision
2x Bring to Light
3x Living End
Creature (13)
1x Architects of Will
4x Curator of Mysteries
4x Street Wraith
4x Striped Riverwinder
3x Cryptic Command
4x Remand
2x Spell Pierce
Enchantment (7)
4x As Foretold
2x Lignify
1x Search for Azcanta
Artifact (1)
1x Engineered Explosives
2x Ceremonious Rejection
2x Dispel
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Gnaw to the Bone
4x Nature's Claim
2x Noxious Revival
1x Pithing Needle
2x Tormod's Crypt
Green?
I have been testing a green splash. It offers a few useful tools.
Green also adds some interesting side board cards. Overall I think I like the green splash better than mono blue but a lot of that might just be Engineered Explosive. I haven't tested white yet but path to exile seems great and white has some pretty good side board options as well. Another idea is going bant for both path to exile and bring to light. That could also allow us to Engineered Explosives for 3 and bring to light at 3, but that might end up being too clunky. As I said before, I think getting the as foretold combo quickly should be the main goal of the deck so I think any change should preserve that. I plan on testing green more since it seems more unexplored than white.
I would love to here some thoughts on this list. Let me know what you think!
I really like this line of thinking. I don't own some of the cards, so can't test it myself yet. But please let us know how it performs in future tournaments!