I almost wonder if scavenging ooze or tireless tracker could be main decked. Both fit rather well with the evolve creatures, avatar, and the both provide a ton of utility.
I mean, you can play whatever you want. I just don't see how shoving cards that you like into the deck without thinking about why you're doing it is really helping the thread. What am I supposed to learn from you're telling everyone? That Crack the Earth isn't good against... ??? You didn't mention what you played it against. Also, how is Young Pyromancer instead of Avatar doing anything better with our other cards? Like, I'd love to get in on some new tech or new strategies for the deck. However, without giving reasoning behind choices and things you're testing nor info about how your testing went, I can't gain anything useful from what you're saying. Which makes it difficult to have a discussion about the deck with you.
I'm not trying to be a jerk here. I just want to get an actual conversation about the deck rolling. I want to point out that you need to provide better arguments if you want me to take what you're saying seriously.
Right now it sounds like you are trying to say a red splash isn't good because your version of it wasn't good. Again, against some unknown match up. But it also looks like you intentionally shot yourself in the foot with bad card choices for little to no real reason as far as improving the deck goes. And you're using that as reasoning to say that a RUG version of the deck is suboptimal. Which like I said before, pushing for UG is fine. But if you want to change my mind from RUG, I need you to explain what the benefits are to UG and give me at least some anecdotal evidence that reinforce those benefits from actual play that you've had against real opponents.
Obviously we're playing what we want, no need to be condecending about it. Moreover, i assume we're mostly not pro players, so HOW we play, our individual playstyle affects a lot witch type of version of the deck is best for us. Or what we end up playing. Pyromancer was my idea of going wide around opp's blockers, and as we have hight inst/sorc mass and pongifys i thought i'd try it. Crack was following that thought on how to utilise undying and pyromancer furter. My problem is that i don't have enough time to playtest, so it was just an idea, and admittedly not a strong one at this point. Seems to me this thread has been about throwing new cards/ideas to public and see if anyone has tried or w'd like to try same things. If i'm building UG with light but necessary red splash, ur going full RUG and brainpipe is drawn to theedrops and concequently more lands it doesn't mean we can't agree on some choices that benefit us all.
For the hell of it i tried a version with more red according to my taste, aka young pyromancer (replacing avatar of the resolute) with crack the earth for some of the pongifies and while it was funny it didn't seem reliable enough. Might try again tho, the effect was ridiculous.. ..but, having to have red mana was a big minus. Usually if i notice the opponent is not playing a control game i don't even bother fetching stomping ground, and that has really saved the day against aggro.
What i spesifically said here is that the need to have red mana was minus in my games. Meaning the full RUG needs to be not only better deck, but that much faster as well. U are free to disagree, but if every opinion that i post here needed to be backed up by hours and hours of playtesting i couldn't ever say anything at all.
@brainpipe: scooze and tracker are both wery powerful and i'm lost matches to both, so having them ourselves seems appealing, but my personal objective now w'd be to have a build that's so fast that those two, however strong, would be unnecessary for us.
What problems are you running into with your list? What's working for you? What sort of lines make you feel like you're doing the most powerful things in the deck?
The only problem is that i feel 19 lands are often too few, i'd like to go up to 20 to increase my chance of keeping hands.
Rhonas the indomitable is surprisingly working pretty well, it's like a big undying creature that immediately evolves creatures so i split the slots of young wolf and rhonas into a 3/2. Hadana's climb, instead, is working less good, it's sweet but it's a huge investment of mana for a pretty mediocre effect. Chart a course worked pretty good, with such a low curve it's the prefect card advantage engine. i'm curious to see how light up the stage works though!
i'm back with a temur version running vexing devil and pelt collector "combo" (if you pongify a vexing devil with its sacrifice trigger on the stack, AFAIK you get to deal 4 damage, a 3/3 token and a 4/4 trampler as soon as turn 2)
What problems are you running into with your list? What's working for you? What sort of lines make you feel like you're doing the most powerful things in the deck?
The only problem is that i feel 19 lands are often too few, i'd like to go up to 20 to increase my chance of keeping hands.
Rhonas the indomitable is surprisingly working pretty well, it's like a big undying creature that immediately evolves creatures so i split the slots of young wolf and rhonas into a 3/2. Hadana's climb, instead, is working less good, it's sweet but it's a huge investment of mana for a pretty mediocre effect. Chart a course worked pretty good, with such a low curve it's the prefect card advantage engine. i'm curious to see how light up the stage works though!
i'm back with a temur version running vexing devil and pelt collector "combo" (if you pongify a vexing devil with its sacrifice trigger on the stack, AFAIK you get to deal 4 damage, a 3/3 token and a 4/4 trampler as soon as turn 2)
btw brainpipe, could u post the whole build and how u think the manabase would look?
Do you mean how would the mana look with scooze and tracker?
Yep. 19 with 3-drops feels low, but how high w'd u consider going? More fetches? I would think that risky one-land keeps aren't even possible?
Or maybe SB cards for slower MU? I have weird tendency to either struggle to get to two lands or get stuck to standstill with all the lands (seriously 6 or more..) Two basics have felt ok tho.
btw brainpipe, could u post the whole build and how u think the manabase would look?
Do you mean how would the mana look with scooze and tracker?
Yep. 19 with 3-drops feels low, but how high w'd u consider going? More fetches? I would think that risky one-land keeps aren't even possible?
Or maybe SB cards for slower MU? I have weird tendency to either struggle to get to two lands or get stuck to standstill with all the lands (seriously 6 or more..) Two basics have felt ok tho.
I had not given it much thought. If you were just running scooze, then I think 19 lands is fine. If you add tracker, I'd go to 20 for sure. I don't see much reason to add more fetches. Probably just another botanical sanctum.
I'm really starting to consider playing Thrashing brontodon in the main deck. I got shut out by a chalice on one on turn one tonight and it felt pretty bad.
I'm really starting to consider playing Thrashing brontodon in the main deck. I got shut out by a chalice on one on turn one tonight and it felt pretty bad.
i know how u feel, it has happened to me too and it sucks. I had one MB-echoing truth for a while to help. And i even got to use it, casting it at the end of opp turn, and then emptied my hand to the board.
But mostly i got the card in my hand instead of threat and was tanking games. So now i just concede to chalice in game 1, take ancient grudges and ceremonius rejections from side to game 2 and many times it works well enough. Fact is some MU's are almost unwinnable, but when u know it and move on ur chanses are better overall.
Yeah, that was pretty much exactly what I boarded in. I'm actually considering selling some of this deck for parts and making Bring to Light Scapeshift instead.
I love the feel of this deck, and I love it thematically, but when it isn't going off, it feels pretty miserable.
@N_Trauman - I'm not trying to be condescending. Blunt, sure but I don't mean any disrespect. I'm just urging you to think critically about the choices you're making with your deck and being conscious of how your posts and insights are received by others. It's fine to suggest the cards and thoughts you're suggesting but without an explanation as to why or to what end the choice was made, others can't gauge how your insights can benefit them. We're all here to help each other build better decks. I won't push this any more, I'm just trying to help you see how to be a better contributor.
What problems are you running into with your list? What's working for you? What sort of lines make you feel like you're doing the most powerful things in the deck?
The only problem is that i feel 19 lands are often too few, i'd like to go up to 20 to increase my chance of keeping hands.
Rhonas the indomitable is surprisingly working pretty well, it's like a big undying creature that immediately evolves creatures so i split the slots of young wolf and rhonas into a 3/2. Hadana's climb, instead, is working less good, it's sweet but it's a huge investment of mana for a pretty mediocre effect. Chart a course worked pretty good, with such a low curve it's the prefect card advantage engine. i'm curious to see how light up the stage works though!
i'm back with a temur version running vexing devil and pelt collector "combo" (if you pongify a vexing devil with its sacrifice trigger on the stack, AFAIK you get to deal 4 damage, a 3/3 token and a 4/4 trampler as soon as turn 2)
might go down to 2 experiment one for 1 more land, as 10 evolvers seems the sweet spot between too few and too many
i don't like having this many 3-ofs. i'm considering cutting all of the experiment ones to make other spells 4x
What is making hands unkeepable for you? It seems like your list is a little heavy on 1/1s. So you might run into issues with getting enough Evolve interaction in opening hands. I can get behind cutting one of your 3-of to bolster the numbers on other cards. I personally like the regeneration on Experiment One but Pelt Collector with a decent number of ways to get him up to 4/4 seems decent. If you'd be upping Vexing Devil and Pelt Collector to 4, I think that'd be worth losing Experiment One. But if you can't get him to Trample size consistently, he's probably not be worth the inclusion. At least that's where I would draw the line.
Yeah, that was pretty much exactly what I boarded in. I'm actually considering selling some of this deck for parts and making Bring to Light Scapeshift instead.
I love the feel of this deck, and I love it thematically, but when it isn't going off, it feels pretty miserable.
You had mentioned running Thrashing Brontodon mainboard in response to Chalice of the Void. What was the deck you were playing against? Free Win Red? I was under the impression that Chalice wasn't seeing as much play currently. Though I could see it showing up as tech against UR Phoenix. Chalice does incidentally hit our deck full of 1-drops. Ancient Grudge is a really solid choice against it, as is Engineered Explosives (set to 0). Our deck is pretty susceptible to hate cards but that's true of most decks. We're not going to have solid game against the entire field. The best I can recommend is either play to win before they can find their sideboard hate or tune your deck to have more interactive cards for a hostile meta. For example, running more 2cmc cards to get around the typical 1cmc restriction of a Chalice.
Playing a low curve deck can be very powerful but it definitely can get outclassed by larger, splashier cards in the mid to late game. I've sat through several control players stabilizing at 1-4 life, mid-range players gumming up the board just enough, and aggro decks outpacing me. It comes with the territory. Reading opening hands and gauging your opponents threat/interaction density will allow you to read board states better and tell you when to commit more to the board or when to play in a more reactive manner. Which is why I really enjoy playing this deck. There's a lot of abstract attacks on the opponent that you don't get from most decks. Playing Rancor on Young Wolf is a very real threat in Modern but it's also a seen as a bad card. So you play on the opponent's valuation of their removal. Getting them to bite on bait like that is very exciting.
That all being said, Scapeshift is a fun deck. Ramp is exciting and hitting 8 mana with Scapeshift and Cryptic back up is just the best. It has it's own drawbacks but I've enjoyed playing around with it. Either way you fall, I think you'll enjoy yourself. Just different avenues of play but if you're looking to be more competitive, Scapeshift is definitely a more established deck.
Hey guys, I picked this deck up a few weeks ago and here's my list:
3 cloudfin raptor
4 pelt collector
4 experiment one
4 narnam renegade
4 strangleroot geist
3 avatar of the resolute
4 vexing devil
3 incubation // incongruity
4 young wolf
4 rapid hybridization
4 lightning bolt
1 atarka's command
1 stomping ground
2 breeding pool
1 steam vents
4 windswept heath
4 wooded foothills
1 forest
1 island
4 botanical sanctum
//
2 nissa, steward of elements
2 flame slash
2 dispel
2 negate
3 spell pierce
2 tormod's crypt
2 destructive revelry
Personally, I've been having a great time playing it, I sat it down a couple years back and picked it back up when pelt collector came out. I think it's pretty powerful when you learn what decisions to make. I've been able to beat all kinds of established decks like Grixis Shadow, Amulet Titan, Infect, Storm, Affinity, and Bogles. The hardest matchup that I've played 3 times at local events has been any GBx midrange deck. I've played against Jund and Abzan, and our games seemed super in favor of them, especially Abzan. They just ran all over me with removal spells before I could establish a real board state and before you know it, you're just top decking 1/1s and living on a prayer.
I like the build of the deck, however, it isn't my ideal iteration of the deck. I would like to play 2 atarka's command and 2 hooting mandrills in the main, as well as a second stomping ground instead of the steam vents but I used what I had. For now, I had just been using Incubation // Incongruity as a way to dig for my top end creatures like avatar of the resolute and vexing devil, and it has done it's job; however, as someone else said earlier, the deck cares more about quantity than quality. Sometimes you pay one mana to replace itself with a one mana 1/1 and it feels terrible. The Incongruity side of the card is actually more useful than I realized. I also thought that because it exiled, that it was terrible for the undying game plan, but I stole a game from Mono-Green Tron because I was able to exile a Wurmcoil Engine with it and push for the last few points of damage.
The only card in this list I haven't actually got to use yet is Nissa. I just recently added her in as an attrition engine. I envisioned being able to play her on 3, scry 2, then just flip the top of my deck every turn to pump out creatures.
I'd honestly like to play Jeskai control if I am going to make a high tier deck, but it is a bit hard on the wallet. I could reasonably make scapeshift if i leave out Jace. But the more I play scapeshift on mtgo the less I like it.
So I'll probably keep tweaking this deck for now, as it is the one that I have. But I do feel like this deck is close to being much better than it currently is. It just seems to be missing something that makes it consistent.
I'll think about trying your version at some point with goblin guides and hellsparks.
But I do feel like this deck is close to being much better than it currently is. It just seems to be missing something that makes it consistent.
This is my thoughts exactly. We're annoyingly one atarka's command/simic charm/plaxmanta-hybrid away from being really competitive, and mostly the efforts to tweak the traditional list throuh the whole focus a bit off-balance. I'm not switching a deck but less than happy about the fact there is NO simic card that could match the power of other color combos in modern.
The hardest matchup that I've played 3 times at local events has been any GBx midrange deck. I've played against Jund and Abzan, and our games seemed super in favor of them, especially Abzan. They just ran all over me with removal spells before I could establish a real board state and before you know it, you're just top decking 1/1s and living on a prayer.
Yep. This makes me feel it w'd be okay to give BGx the same 3-of space than other fun-killers in our SB. I've been trying to find a suitable solution, but so far i just think that shapers' sanctuary is not it. They rip it from our hand in first turn and after that it's just too late. Rhonas or some such might be better, but i'm still reluctant to go to 3-drops. Then again, games usually go longer, so mana might not be such an issue.
@N_Trauman - I'm not trying to be condescending. .....I'm just trying to help you see how to be a better contributor.
Indeed. I thank u for ur kind words but in the name of expediency i think i'll continue to overestimate others by assuming that something like adding young pyromancer and crack the earth is sort of self-explanatory..
I agree with you on Shaper's Sanctuary, it usually was taken if you opened it and was too late if you drew into it. That's why I wanted to try advantage in the form of a planeswalker, because they're good early and late.
I tried Domri Rade, but I didn't like how he didn't immediately give you great card advantage. Nissa on T3 seemed better, because you scry 2, stack your deck, then use her 0 to get extra creatures and filter lands out of your deck. The only creatures I play that can't be flipped are hooting mandrills, but there are around 30-32 creatures, so I think it's fine. They both die to bolt on activation as well, so I chose Nissa.
I think i'll follow ur example and try some walkers too. nissa, steward of elements seems good, and it's in the nicer colors as well. (Like i've written before i tend not to fetch the red mana if not absolutely necessary and board most of the bolts out if playing against burn.) Did u consider or try nissa, voice of zendikar at all? i haven't liked her that much, but when she was in my other deck i got the impression that BG-players really hate her...
Taking too much damage from fetches is why I decided to just decided to play 4 Botanical sanctum, and is also why Nissa stood out to me, because she's in our main colors.
I haven't tried Nissa, Voice of Zendikar, and I felt she was too slow and not powerful enough for the midrange matchup, because I'm usually behind most of the game and I wanted something that let me present more of a threat. Nissa, Steward of Elements seemed like a really good sideboard against Jeskai Control, too.
@brainpipe - You could always try asking friends if they could help you build the deck. Loaning cards before GPs and stuff were a big part of competitive play when I used to be more of a competitive player.
On the topic of damage from lands - I don't think you can really avoid the damage part of lands without losing a color. The problem with running a bunch of 1 drops is that the color demands for each turn become very demanding. There's no generic mana costs to allow flexibility on lands in play. On top of that we run close to bare minimum lands because we need threat density to stay above a certain threshold to get the most from each individual card. Fetches are extremely important for color fixing on top of being a necessary enabler for Narnam Renegade. I've found that 9 fetches (half of the deck's mana base) is pretty solid. Grabbing ShockLands comes with that territory and because we need to make the most of each turn, that means you're going to be doing 3-6 damage to yourself every game. While it's not ideal, I think it comes with the operation of the deck. You're making a concession to the burn/aggro match ups to put more points in your control/big-mana match ups. No deck can be solid against everything, knowing where you are weak and focusing on where you are strong is how you play the metagame. By pulling Shocks for FastLands mitigates the damage some but pulls from your consistency. I think they are good inclusions but I wouldn't run too many (more than 5) because you'll find it harder to keep a wider array of opening hands and mulling with this deck isn't where you want to be.
I also would advise against running more than 1 basic Forest. You get screwed by the second Path to Exile or Field of Ruin but honestly, if a game comes to that and you don't have a Pongify in response, things probably aren't going to be much better if you go grab another basic. Like I already said, you have a high color demand each turn with the deck. So wasting lands slots on cards that only produce one color are going to actively hurt your ability to play cards effectively, slow down your ability to roll out threats in proper order, and reduce your likelihood of keeping an opening hand.
The TL;DR being taking damage from your lands means you keep more opening hands and stumble less each turn but are more susceptible to burn and land hate. My point being that the former is more important than the latter.
On the topic of card advantage - The deck plays in a rather nebulous area of card advantage which is what makes it a tempo deck. You aren't really trading your cards for their cards. You are trading your cards for their time. Which is tough to recoup by simply drawing more cards, though it helps. Our cards are individually sub-par compared to what Modern has available. The way we need to build advantage in a game is by turning mana spent by the opponent into negligible board state. Hybridizing a creature in response to removal to gain a 3/3 and buffing the team turns their turn spent holding mana for removal into your benefit on several small axes. So what this means is not throwing away your Pongifys for an extra damage or two before combat if you are expecting removal. After sticking a couple early creatures you want to sit on an open mana or two for tricks until you are forced to alpha strike. But in general, though it is fun, don't spend your avenues of advantage unless you are being pressured into it.
I'd highly suggest trying out Vapor Snag. When you are looking to get as many 3/3s across the line as quickly as possible, bouncing a creature the opponent tapped out for on a critical turn is just as good as a Path to Exile if they die on the attack. The additional damage dealt by Snag is also usually relevant reach that gets through Leyline of Sanctity. Like Shaspoder said about exiling a Wurmcoil Engine, bouncing it from play also leaves you clear to attack. The trade off being, you don't have to deal with a 3/3 token but if you don't kill the opponent you're dealing with the Wurmcoil on the following turn as well.
The deck makes strong use of the nuance of player priority of phases, especially in combat. So always take a second to think about how to react to every move the opponent makes. Remember that if the opponent flashes in a creature before blocks, that you get your priority back before moving to blocking. Things like that become very important in eking out small advantages.
Personally, I'd recommend running cards like Rancor and Hellspark Elemental that give you extra shots of cards or turn your opponents cards into 1/2 cards. Making your opponents spend extra resources to deal with recurring threats goes a long way to building your advantage. Rancor also does a lot for turning your bad top deck 1/1s into decent 3/1 threats. Also, swinging with a 5/1 Young Wolf on turn 2 is an good time.
The TL;DR for all that being, play reactively when you can. Maximize opportunities to cost your opponent a card by holding on to tricks until you get the most value you can. Play smart when it comes to player priority.
@Shspoder - Just a quick questions about your list, do you think you are running too many Evolve creatures? You have a decent number of ways to get them going but with 15 creatures that ETB as 1/1s, it seems like you'll have lots of hands where you'll be waiting until turn 3 to start Evolving things. I'm curious how that has been working for you. I've never run more than the original 8 but my build doesn't have ways to make Pelt Collector a 4/4. Also, cutting Raptor seems like an odd choice. Can you explain what your thought process is there?
The 15 1/1s has actually been ok, I've been able to have some really powerful turns with Pelt collector, I love that card. Sometimes it can brick and you get a couple 1/1s, a Geist, and like a bolt; however, it hasn't happened often. A lot of times, I'll open a hand with raptor, Pelt Collector, narnam renegade, Vexing devil, and 2 lands + some other card. Those hands have been pretty powerful, especially when you top deck avatar of the Resolute.
As far as cutting cloudfin raptor goes, I drew it way too much when I didn't want to see it at all. I still find it important and very good because it sometimes just wins the matchup, but I just wanted to minimize the amount of drawing it late game.
- decided to give pelt collector a try. I feel we still lack some umpf to get the last damage trough, so despite liking E1 better for consistacy i switched them for now. As i agree that it's pointless without vexing devil, but didn't like to give up narnam alltogether it's a 2-2 split for now. Avatar has been too good to consider replacing, and action with pelt is a plus.
-of pongifys: I DEFINITELY think 8 is not too much, as it does so much more than evolve stuff. got something blocked-pongify, got too big attacker or something with lifelink coming at ur way-block and pongify. the list goes on. And with so many of them, i'm now trying repeal instead of vapor snag. On it's own it's def worse, but combined with pongies it might become nice cantrip. Time will tell.
-nissa has been nice so far, tho maybe only as 2-of for now. i like some sweepers in SB and the space in full now. Have to consider counters again in the future as i only have 2 now and no extras in side.
[b]
[b]On the topic of damage from lands[/b] - I don't think you can really avoid the damage part of lands without losing a color.
I also would advise against running more than 1 basic Forest. You get screwed by the second Path to Exile or Field of Ruin but honestly, if a game comes to that and you don't have a Pongify in response, things probably aren't going to be much better if you go grab another basic. Like I already said, you have a high color demand each turn with the deck. So wasting lands slots on cards that only produce one color are going to actively hurt your ability to play cards effectively, slow down your ability to roll out threats in proper order, and reduce your likelihood of keeping an opening hand.
This is why i def don't recommend an island, but two forests have been okay. Not for paths, but to give a chance agaist blood moon. Some decks bet everything on landing one, and it's nice to roll over them after that, as two forests is usually all we need then. As for damage from lands, it can be reduced, IF playing our version. That's why it's called splashing a color, i think..
Personally, I'd recommend running cards like Rancor and Hellspark Elemental that give you extra shots of cards or turn your opponents cards into 1/2 cards. Making your opponents spend extra resources to deal with recurring threats goes a long way to building your advantage. Rancor also does a lot for turning your bad top deck 1/1s into decent 3/1 threats. Also, swinging with a 5/1 Young Wolf on turn 2 is an good time.
Yes, u w'd. We are playing slightly different versions tho. I'm not against red per se, just don't like the more 3/3s against bigger blockers plan, and giving the opponent opportunity to 2-for-1 us when casting rancor even less. As i see it we're all playing a deck that's not tier anything, so taste applies here. I would like to hear of ur success tho: how much do u actually win with ur version, and how is it stronger than burn or bigger zoo-decks? How do u fare against BGx? What are ur other MU's like? A proper list of those might demonstrate better why do u think adding red makes the deck stronger overall. So far the only fact i'm certain is that ur version is probably losing to burn and our is not. This is genuine interest.
If you really want N_Trauman, I can explain how the deck changed from the original list to this. I didn't start making changes until I had run it in its stock form through 15 or so games online against a variety of deck. Then went through with single card changes for roughly the same number of games until I ended up with this list. Since getting to this point, I haven't really found anything that would work better in over any particular card but I'm always looking for new tech/ideas.
If you're really worried about Blood Moon, I would like to point out that running more red cards allows you to have more relevant cards after it hits play. Also, sitting on an unusedfetch to grab a singleton Forest in response to a Moon is generally going to be good enough to let you keep playing through it. Either that or floating Blue mana in response so you can Repeal it. Though, Unsubstantiate or Echoing Truth seem like better options if you are looking to bounce things bigger than 2cmc. If you assume Moon is coming in, boarding in Natural State, Destructive Revelry, or some other Naturalize effect gives you more reactive outs to it. You just need to try to read the opponent's potential plays to try and foresee it coming down. When they hit 3 mana you need to ask yourself if it is more likely for them to try to add more to the board, sit back on removal or try to disrupt you out of the game with Moon. Then play according to that hunch. Prioritizing getting 2 Forests into play before a Moon hits is going to severely limit the plays you can make in the early stages of the game, which are the most important turns for the deck. Which, to me, doesn't sound like the best way to win a game.
In general my deck paired up well against Tron and combo decks. Basically, if the opponent sits and sets up for the first few turns, I'm able to apply a ton of pressure unimpeded quickly. I don't really know what to say about these match ups. You just play as fast as possible and make them dead before they do anything relevant.
I have been out of magic for the last few months so I don't know how the R(U) Phoenix deck match up is but as the current bogeyman I'll make a guesstimate. Gut Shot sounds pretty miserable for the Evolve guys. However Vapor Snag and a bunch of haste guys can't be bad for dealing with Thing in the Ice. They still sit until turn 3 or 4 before "going-off." So you should be able to overwhelm the board in that time. It's mainly about being wary of the Leviathan flip trigger.
GBx is very hand dependent but usually decent. Discard is usually the roughest part, but they generally don't have more than one in most games. Playing more reactively with Rapid Hybridization becomes the priority to blank their removal spells and then I'm using Undying and Vapor Snag to bash into and past their blockers. It isn't an easy match up by any means, but its definitely winable.
As stated before, burn and other aggro decks are rough. It becomes a race as my build can't really play the control game, so I have to lean hard on putting power into play. If I stumble on lands or gas, they usually take the game. Life Goes On and Grim Lavamancer go a long way from the sideboard to buy time and stop creatures but they aren't silver bullets.
Control is really where the decision to play the deck comes down to. If control is tuned for a meta-game full of Big Mana and Combo, then we're usually fast and wide enough to get through their early disruption and finish them off with reach. If they are tuned for a more aggressive/burn-heavy meta, my build gets hit by a lot of the same roadblocks. Settle the Wreckage is rough and they will usually have better sideboard options like Timely Reinforcements in higher numbers. Lifegain is the real pain as it extends their window to stabilize.
I don't think I've ever said that this deck, in any form, is going to be better than a straight burn deck or a big zoo deck. I choose to run some red creatures instead of green creatures like Avatar of the Resolute because they have large power or toughness for their mana cost without needing any additional red mana sources from the deck. My mana base is literally a 50/50 split on Red and Blue sources with 100% of my lands producing Green. Hellspark Elemental, Goblin Guide, and Kari Zev, Skyship Raider don't require any more Red than Lightning Bolt. I picked them because they are fast, evasive, or create multiple enters the battlefield triggers for the Evolve creatures without needing other cards to make them individual strong. They are pillars of consistency that the more volatile cards (Hybridization and Evolve creatures) can lean on to generate value and power when I need it to.
I like playing this deck because it makes use of combat tricks and plays with a bunch of cool cards that don't see a ton of play. So it's fun for me to pull Hellspark from the bin and plop some dice on to a few odd balls and steal some games. The deck is definitely capable of 4-0'ing a local FNM but I've played it in a GP setting and from what I've seen it doesn't have the legs to be that level of good.
For what it's worth, I get that you want to Repeal tokens made on the opponents side from Pongify. I would respond to that by saying, if you need a card to clean up for a different card, you shouldn't make the mess in the first place. As far as this deck is concerned Pongify reads, "U - Instant - As an additional cost, sac a Young Wolf. Make a 2/2 Young Wolf and a 3/3 Ape token. Trigger Evolve twice." Using it on an opponents card is an extreme, last resort option. It has its uses but should be avoided if at all possible.
How has Smuggler's Copter been working for you? It doesn't trigger Evolve but the evasion and looting seem decent. It also gives some legs to your late game 1/1s. I may need to try it out over Kari Zev. She's solid but definitely is a flex spot in my list.
UR Phoenix 1-2: I swiftly took game one, he settled on a thing in the ice and I killed it with pongify and took over the game. Game two, i brought him to 3 life and he was able to flip Thing In the Ice for game. Game 3, I also applied a ton of pressure, went for the kill with atarka's command and he had a dispel. Left him at 1. He couldn't flip a thing in the ice and I couldn't evolve cloudfin raptor for 1 point of damage to close out the game, until he finally flipped it. Really unfortunate loss.
Mono-Green Tron 1-2: Same as UR Phoenix game one, I swarmed the board before he could answer my threats. Game two, he landed ugin on turn 4 and wiped me, bolted him to 2 with a bolt in hand and pass. He armageddons me with sundering titan and kills me. Game 3, brought him to 3 life, also with a bolt in hand, and he casts ulamog to exile my red source. Also another unfortunately loss, didn't see any SB at all.
Mono-red goblins 2-0: it was a really strange jank build where he planned to either turn 1-2 blood moon, or turn 1 Warren instigator to cheat out two goblins on turn one. I was able to swarm to board before he played moon game one. Game two, just didn't let his instigator live.
Tron is a known matchup for the deck, probably more so than Phoenix. I just boarded in stubborn denials to spike karn and ugin. UR Phoenix is something else, though. Doesn't seem that bad, all we seem to care about is Thing In the Ice, as long as it doesn't flip, we can usually find a way to win. Makes the 3rd time I've missed taking the match against the deck.
Obviously we're playing what we want, no need to be condecending about it. Moreover, i assume we're mostly not pro players, so HOW we play, our individual playstyle affects a lot witch type of version of the deck is best for us. Or what we end up playing. Pyromancer was my idea of going wide around opp's blockers, and as we have hight inst/sorc mass and pongifys i thought i'd try it. Crack was following that thought on how to utilise undying and pyromancer furter. My problem is that i don't have enough time to playtest, so it was just an idea, and admittedly not a strong one at this point. Seems to me this thread has been about throwing new cards/ideas to public and see if anyone has tried or w'd like to try same things. If i'm building UG with light but necessary red splash, ur going full RUG and brainpipe is drawn to theedrops and concequently more lands it doesn't mean we can't agree on some choices that benefit us all.
What i spesifically said here is that the need to have red mana was minus in my games. Meaning the full RUG needs to be not only better deck, but that much faster as well. U are free to disagree, but if every opinion that i post here needed to be backed up by hours and hours of playtesting i couldn't ever say anything at all.
@brainpipe: scooze and tracker are both wery powerful and i'm lost matches to both, so having them ourselves seems appealing, but my personal objective now w'd be to have a build that's so fast that those two, however strong, would be unnecessary for us.
The only problem is that i feel 19 lands are often too few, i'd like to go up to 20 to increase my chance of keeping hands.
Rhonas the indomitable is surprisingly working pretty well, it's like a big undying creature that immediately evolves creatures so i split the slots of young wolf and rhonas into a 3/2.
Hadana's climb, instead, is working less good, it's sweet but it's a huge investment of mana for a pretty mediocre effect.
Chart a course worked pretty good, with such a low curve it's the prefect card advantage engine. i'm curious to see how light up the stage works though!
i'm back with a temur version running vexing devil and pelt collector "combo" (if you pongify a vexing devil with its sacrifice trigger on the stack, AFAIK you get to deal 4 damage, a 3/3 token and a 4/4 trampler as soon as turn 2)
here's what i come up to:
4 Cloudfin raptor
4 pelt collector
3 experiment one
3 young wolf
3 vexing devil
4 strangleroot geist
2 rhonas the indomitable
4 lightning bolt
4 rapid hybridization
3 pongify
3 rancor
4 chart a course
Lands (19)
3 botanical sanctum
2 breeding pool
1 stomping ground
4 misty ranforest
4 windswept heath
2 wooded foothills
2 forest
1 island
notes:
Elves || GSpirits G || Spirits || Fish
Pauper
GElvesG || CAffinityC
Commander
G Roon (and the Hidden Realms) G
You can't pongify a vexing devil like that.
https://blogs.magicjudges.org/rulestips/2012/05/vexing-devil-and-fling-you-cant-get-8-damage-out-of-it/
Elves || GSpirits G || Spirits || Fish
Pauper
GElvesG || CAffinityC
Commander
G Roon (and the Hidden Realms) G
Do you mean how would the mana look with scooze and tracker?
Yep. 19 with 3-drops feels low, but how high w'd u consider going? More fetches? I would think that risky one-land keeps aren't even possible?
Or maybe SB cards for slower MU? I have weird tendency to either struggle to get to two lands or get stuck to standstill with all the lands (seriously 6 or more..) Two basics have felt ok tho.
I had not given it much thought. If you were just running scooze, then I think 19 lands is fine. If you add tracker, I'd go to 20 for sure. I don't see much reason to add more fetches. Probably just another botanical sanctum.
i propose the following:
4 misty rainforest
4 wooded foothills
2 windswept heath
1 stomping ground
1 breeding pool
2 forest
1 island
2 copperline gorge
2 botanical sanctum
Elves || GSpirits G || Spirits || Fish
Pauper
GElvesG || CAffinityC
Commander
G Roon (and the Hidden Realms) G
i know how u feel, it has happened to me too and it sucks. I had one MB-echoing truth for a while to help. And i even got to use it, casting it at the end of opp turn, and then emptied my hand to the board.
But mostly i got the card in my hand instead of threat and was tanking games. So now i just concede to chalice in game 1, take ancient grudges and ceremonius rejections from side to game 2 and many times it works well enough. Fact is some MU's are almost unwinnable, but when u know it and move on ur chanses are better overall.
I love the feel of this deck, and I love it thematically, but when it isn't going off, it feels pretty miserable.
@ketoglutorato
What is making hands unkeepable for you? It seems like your list is a little heavy on 1/1s. So you might run into issues with getting enough Evolve interaction in opening hands. I can get behind cutting one of your 3-of to bolster the numbers on other cards. I personally like the regeneration on Experiment One but Pelt Collector with a decent number of ways to get him up to 4/4 seems decent. If you'd be upping Vexing Devil and Pelt Collector to 4, I think that'd be worth losing Experiment One. But if you can't get him to Trample size consistently, he's probably not be worth the inclusion. At least that's where I would draw the line.
@brainpipe
You had mentioned running Thrashing Brontodon mainboard in response to Chalice of the Void. What was the deck you were playing against? Free Win Red? I was under the impression that Chalice wasn't seeing as much play currently. Though I could see it showing up as tech against UR Phoenix. Chalice does incidentally hit our deck full of 1-drops. Ancient Grudge is a really solid choice against it, as is Engineered Explosives (set to 0). Our deck is pretty susceptible to hate cards but that's true of most decks. We're not going to have solid game against the entire field. The best I can recommend is either play to win before they can find their sideboard hate or tune your deck to have more interactive cards for a hostile meta. For example, running more 2cmc cards to get around the typical 1cmc restriction of a Chalice.
Playing a low curve deck can be very powerful but it definitely can get outclassed by larger, splashier cards in the mid to late game. I've sat through several control players stabilizing at 1-4 life, mid-range players gumming up the board just enough, and aggro decks outpacing me. It comes with the territory. Reading opening hands and gauging your opponents threat/interaction density will allow you to read board states better and tell you when to commit more to the board or when to play in a more reactive manner. Which is why I really enjoy playing this deck. There's a lot of abstract attacks on the opponent that you don't get from most decks. Playing Rancor on Young Wolf is a very real threat in Modern but it's also a seen as a bad card. So you play on the opponent's valuation of their removal. Getting them to bite on bait like that is very exciting.
That all being said, Scapeshift is a fun deck. Ramp is exciting and hitting 8 mana with Scapeshift and Cryptic back up is just the best. It has it's own drawbacks but I've enjoyed playing around with it. Either way you fall, I think you'll enjoy yourself. Just different avenues of play but if you're looking to be more competitive, Scapeshift is definitely a more established deck.
3 cloudfin raptor
4 pelt collector
4 experiment one
4 narnam renegade
4 strangleroot geist
3 avatar of the resolute
4 vexing devil
3 incubation // incongruity
4 young wolf
4 rapid hybridization
4 lightning bolt
1 atarka's command
1 stomping ground
2 breeding pool
1 steam vents
4 windswept heath
4 wooded foothills
1 forest
1 island
4 botanical sanctum
//
2 nissa, steward of elements
2 flame slash
2 dispel
2 negate
3 spell pierce
2 tormod's crypt
2 destructive revelry
Personally, I've been having a great time playing it, I sat it down a couple years back and picked it back up when pelt collector came out. I think it's pretty powerful when you learn what decisions to make. I've been able to beat all kinds of established decks like Grixis Shadow, Amulet Titan, Infect, Storm, Affinity, and Bogles. The hardest matchup that I've played 3 times at local events has been any GBx midrange deck. I've played against Jund and Abzan, and our games seemed super in favor of them, especially Abzan. They just ran all over me with removal spells before I could establish a real board state and before you know it, you're just top decking 1/1s and living on a prayer.
I like the build of the deck, however, it isn't my ideal iteration of the deck. I would like to play 2 atarka's command and 2 hooting mandrills in the main, as well as a second stomping ground instead of the steam vents but I used what I had. For now, I had just been using Incubation // Incongruity as a way to dig for my top end creatures like avatar of the resolute and vexing devil, and it has done it's job; however, as someone else said earlier, the deck cares more about quantity than quality. Sometimes you pay one mana to replace itself with a one mana 1/1 and it feels terrible. The Incongruity side of the card is actually more useful than I realized. I also thought that because it exiled, that it was terrible for the undying game plan, but I stole a game from Mono-Green Tron because I was able to exile a Wurmcoil Engine with it and push for the last few points of damage.
The only card in this list I haven't actually got to use yet is Nissa. I just recently added her in as an attrition engine. I envisioned being able to play her on 3, scry 2, then just flip the top of my deck every turn to pump out creatures.
GBW Abzan Midrange
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/decks/9485-temur-evolve RUG
GBR Jund Flayer
Naya Zoo GRW
Pauper:
Izzet Blitz UR
Standard:
Izzet Drakes UR
UR Izzet Wizards
I'd honestly like to play Jeskai control if I am going to make a high tier deck, but it is a bit hard on the wallet. I could reasonably make scapeshift if i leave out Jace. But the more I play scapeshift on mtgo the less I like it.
So I'll probably keep tweaking this deck for now, as it is the one that I have. But I do feel like this deck is close to being much better than it currently is. It just seems to be missing something that makes it consistent.
I'll think about trying your version at some point with goblin guides and hellsparks.
This is my thoughts exactly. We're annoyingly one atarka's command/simic charm/plaxmanta-hybrid away from being really competitive, and mostly the efforts to tweak the traditional list throuh the whole focus a bit off-balance. I'm not switching a deck but less than happy about the fact there is NO simic card that could match the power of other color combos in modern.
Yep. This makes me feel it w'd be okay to give BGx the same 3-of space than other fun-killers in our SB. I've been trying to find a suitable solution, but so far i just think that shapers' sanctuary is not it. They rip it from our hand in first turn and after that it's just too late. Rhonas or some such might be better, but i'm still reluctant to go to 3-drops. Then again, games usually go longer, so mana might not be such an issue.
Indeed. I thank u for ur kind words but in the name of expediency i think i'll continue to overestimate others by assuming that something like adding young pyromancer and crack the earth is sort of self-explanatory..
I tried Domri Rade, but I didn't like how he didn't immediately give you great card advantage. Nissa on T3 seemed better, because you scry 2, stack your deck, then use her 0 to get extra creatures and filter lands out of your deck. The only creatures I play that can't be flipped are hooting mandrills, but there are around 30-32 creatures, so I think it's fine. They both die to bolt on activation as well, so I chose Nissa.
GBW Abzan Midrange
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/decks/9485-temur-evolve RUG
GBR Jund Flayer
Naya Zoo GRW
Pauper:
Izzet Blitz UR
Standard:
Izzet Drakes UR
UR Izzet Wizards
I haven't tried Nissa, Voice of Zendikar, and I felt she was too slow and not powerful enough for the midrange matchup, because I'm usually behind most of the game and I wanted something that let me present more of a threat. Nissa, Steward of Elements seemed like a really good sideboard against Jeskai Control, too.
GBW Abzan Midrange
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/decks/9485-temur-evolve RUG
GBR Jund Flayer
Naya Zoo GRW
Pauper:
Izzet Blitz UR
Standard:
Izzet Drakes UR
UR Izzet Wizards
On the topic of damage from lands - I don't think you can really avoid the damage part of lands without losing a color. The problem with running a bunch of 1 drops is that the color demands for each turn become very demanding. There's no generic mana costs to allow flexibility on lands in play. On top of that we run close to bare minimum lands because we need threat density to stay above a certain threshold to get the most from each individual card. Fetches are extremely important for color fixing on top of being a necessary enabler for Narnam Renegade. I've found that 9 fetches (half of the deck's mana base) is pretty solid. Grabbing Shock Lands comes with that territory and because we need to make the most of each turn, that means you're going to be doing 3-6 damage to yourself every game. While it's not ideal, I think it comes with the operation of the deck. You're making a concession to the burn/aggro match ups to put more points in your control/big-mana match ups. No deck can be solid against everything, knowing where you are weak and focusing on where you are strong is how you play the metagame. By pulling Shocks for Fast Lands mitigates the damage some but pulls from your consistency. I think they are good inclusions but I wouldn't run too many (more than 5) because you'll find it harder to keep a wider array of opening hands and mulling with this deck isn't where you want to be.
I also would advise against running more than 1 basic Forest. You get screwed by the second Path to Exile or Field of Ruin but honestly, if a game comes to that and you don't have a Pongify in response, things probably aren't going to be much better if you go grab another basic. Like I already said, you have a high color demand each turn with the deck. So wasting lands slots on cards that only produce one color are going to actively hurt your ability to play cards effectively, slow down your ability to roll out threats in proper order, and reduce your likelihood of keeping an opening hand.
The TL;DR being taking damage from your lands means you keep more opening hands and stumble less each turn but are more susceptible to burn and land hate. My point being that the former is more important than the latter.
On the topic of card advantage - The deck plays in a rather nebulous area of card advantage which is what makes it a tempo deck. You aren't really trading your cards for their cards. You are trading your cards for their time. Which is tough to recoup by simply drawing more cards, though it helps. Our cards are individually sub-par compared to what Modern has available. The way we need to build advantage in a game is by turning mana spent by the opponent into negligible board state. Hybridizing a creature in response to removal to gain a 3/3 and buffing the team turns their turn spent holding mana for removal into your benefit on several small axes. So what this means is not throwing away your Pongifys for an extra damage or two before combat if you are expecting removal. After sticking a couple early creatures you want to sit on an open mana or two for tricks until you are forced to alpha strike. But in general, though it is fun, don't spend your avenues of advantage unless you are being pressured into it.
I'd highly suggest trying out Vapor Snag. When you are looking to get as many 3/3s across the line as quickly as possible, bouncing a creature the opponent tapped out for on a critical turn is just as good as a Path to Exile if they die on the attack. The additional damage dealt by Snag is also usually relevant reach that gets through Leyline of Sanctity. Like Shaspoder said about exiling a Wurmcoil Engine, bouncing it from play also leaves you clear to attack. The trade off being, you don't have to deal with a 3/3 token but if you don't kill the opponent you're dealing with the Wurmcoil on the following turn as well.
The deck makes strong use of the nuance of player priority of phases, especially in combat. So always take a second to think about how to react to every move the opponent makes. Remember that if the opponent flashes in a creature before blocks, that you get your priority back before moving to blocking. Things like that become very important in eking out small advantages.
Personally, I'd recommend running cards like Rancor and Hellspark Elemental that give you extra shots of cards or turn your opponents cards into 1/2 cards. Making your opponents spend extra resources to deal with recurring threats goes a long way to building your advantage. Rancor also does a lot for turning your bad top deck 1/1s into decent 3/1 threats. Also, swinging with a 5/1 Young Wolf on turn 2 is an good time.
The TL;DR for all that being, play reactively when you can. Maximize opportunities to cost your opponent a card by holding on to tricks until you get the most value you can. Play smart when it comes to player priority.
@Shspoder - Just a quick questions about your list, do you think you are running too many Evolve creatures? You have a decent number of ways to get them going but with 15 creatures that ETB as 1/1s, it seems like you'll have lots of hands where you'll be waiting until turn 3 to start Evolving things. I'm curious how that has been working for you. I've never run more than the original 8 but my build doesn't have ways to make Pelt Collector a 4/4. Also, cutting Raptor seems like an odd choice. Can you explain what your thought process is there?
As far as cutting cloudfin raptor goes, I drew it way too much when I didn't want to see it at all. I still find it important and very good because it sometimes just wins the matchup, but I just wanted to minimize the amount of drawing it late game.
GBW Abzan Midrange
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/decks/9485-temur-evolve RUG
GBR Jund Flayer
Naya Zoo GRW
Pauper:
Izzet Blitz UR
Standard:
Izzet Drakes UR
UR Izzet Wizards
4x pelt collector
2x narnam renegade
2x vexing devil
4x young wolf
4x strangleroot geist
3x avatar of the resolute
4x rapid hybridization
4x pongify
4x lightning bolt
2x spell pierce
2x repeal
2x smuggler's copter
1x dryad arbor
4x windswept heath
4x wooded foothills
1x flooded strand
2x breeding pool
2x stomping ground
3x botanical sanctum
2x forest
3x ceremonious rejection
3x ancient grudge
3x life goes on
1x pyroclasm
1x echoing truth
2x surgical extraction
2x nissa, steward of elements
- decided to give pelt collector a try. I feel we still lack some umpf to get the last damage trough, so despite liking E1 better for consistacy i switched them for now. As i agree that it's pointless without vexing devil, but didn't like to give up narnam alltogether it's a 2-2 split for now. Avatar has been too good to consider replacing, and action with pelt is a plus.
-of pongifys: I DEFINITELY think 8 is not too much, as it does so much more than evolve stuff. got something blocked-pongify, got too big attacker or something with lifelink coming at ur way-block and pongify. the list goes on. And with so many of them, i'm now trying repeal instead of vapor snag. On it's own it's def worse, but combined with pongies it might become nice cantrip. Time will tell.
-nissa has been nice so far, tho maybe only as 2-of for now. i like some sweepers in SB and the space in full now. Have to consider counters again in the future as i only have 2 now and no extras in side.
This is why i def don't recommend an island, but two forests have been okay. Not for paths, but to give a chance agaist blood moon. Some decks bet everything on landing one, and it's nice to roll over them after that, as two forests is usually all we need then. As for damage from lands, it can be reduced, IF playing our version. That's why it's called splashing a color, i think..
Yes, u w'd. We are playing slightly different versions tho. I'm not against red per se, just don't like the more 3/3s against bigger blockers plan, and giving the opponent opportunity to 2-for-1 us when casting rancor even less. As i see it we're all playing a deck that's not tier anything, so taste applies here. I would like to hear of ur success tho: how much do u actually win with ur version, and how is it stronger than burn or bigger zoo-decks? How do u fare against BGx? What are ur other MU's like? A proper list of those might demonstrate better why do u think adding red makes the deck stronger overall. So far the only fact i'm certain is that ur version is probably losing to burn and our is not. This is genuine interest.
4 Cloudfin Raptor
4 Experiment One
4 Young Wolf
4 Goblin Guide
2 Kari Zev, Skyship Raider
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Hellspark Elemental
Spells: 16
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Rapid Hybridization
4 Vapor Snag
4 Rancor
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Windswept Heath
2 Botanical Sanctum
2 Copperline Gorge
2 Breeding Pool
2 Stomping Ground
1 Forest
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Natural State
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Life Goes On
2 Spell Pierce
If you really want N_Trauman, I can explain how the deck changed from the original list to this. I didn't start making changes until I had run it in its stock form through 15 or so games online against a variety of deck. Then went through with single card changes for roughly the same number of games until I ended up with this list. Since getting to this point, I haven't really found anything that would work better in over any particular card but I'm always looking for new tech/ideas.
If you're really worried about Blood Moon, I would like to point out that running more red cards allows you to have more relevant cards after it hits play. Also, sitting on an unused fetch to grab a singleton Forest in response to a Moon is generally going to be good enough to let you keep playing through it. Either that or floating Blue mana in response so you can Repeal it. Though, Unsubstantiate or Echoing Truth seem like better options if you are looking to bounce things bigger than 2cmc. If you assume Moon is coming in, boarding in Natural State, Destructive Revelry, or some other Naturalize effect gives you more reactive outs to it. You just need to try to read the opponent's potential plays to try and foresee it coming down. When they hit 3 mana you need to ask yourself if it is more likely for them to try to add more to the board, sit back on removal or try to disrupt you out of the game with Moon. Then play according to that hunch. Prioritizing getting 2 Forests into play before a Moon hits is going to severely limit the plays you can make in the early stages of the game, which are the most important turns for the deck. Which, to me, doesn't sound like the best way to win a game.
In general my deck paired up well against Tron and combo decks. Basically, if the opponent sits and sets up for the first few turns, I'm able to apply a ton of pressure unimpeded quickly. I don't really know what to say about these match ups. You just play as fast as possible and make them dead before they do anything relevant.
I have been out of magic for the last few months so I don't know how the R(U) Phoenix deck match up is but as the current bogeyman I'll make a guesstimate. Gut Shot sounds pretty miserable for the Evolve guys. However Vapor Snag and a bunch of haste guys can't be bad for dealing with Thing in the Ice. They still sit until turn 3 or 4 before "going-off." So you should be able to overwhelm the board in that time. It's mainly about being wary of the Leviathan flip trigger.
GBx is very hand dependent but usually decent. Discard is usually the roughest part, but they generally don't have more than one in most games. Playing more reactively with Rapid Hybridization becomes the priority to blank their removal spells and then I'm using Undying and Vapor Snag to bash into and past their blockers. It isn't an easy match up by any means, but its definitely winable.
As stated before, burn and other aggro decks are rough. It becomes a race as my build can't really play the control game, so I have to lean hard on putting power into play. If I stumble on lands or gas, they usually take the game. Life Goes On and Grim Lavamancer go a long way from the sideboard to buy time and stop creatures but they aren't silver bullets.
Control is really where the decision to play the deck comes down to. If control is tuned for a meta-game full of Big Mana and Combo, then we're usually fast and wide enough to get through their early disruption and finish them off with reach. If they are tuned for a more aggressive/burn-heavy meta, my build gets hit by a lot of the same roadblocks. Settle the Wreckage is rough and they will usually have better sideboard options like Timely Reinforcements in higher numbers. Lifegain is the real pain as it extends their window to stabilize.
I don't think I've ever said that this deck, in any form, is going to be better than a straight burn deck or a big zoo deck. I choose to run some red creatures instead of green creatures like Avatar of the Resolute because they have large power or toughness for their mana cost without needing any additional red mana sources from the deck. My mana base is literally a 50/50 split on Red and Blue sources with 100% of my lands producing Green. Hellspark Elemental, Goblin Guide, and Kari Zev, Skyship Raider don't require any more Red than Lightning Bolt. I picked them because they are fast, evasive, or create multiple enters the battlefield triggers for the Evolve creatures without needing other cards to make them individual strong. They are pillars of consistency that the more volatile cards (Hybridization and Evolve creatures) can lean on to generate value and power when I need it to.
I like playing this deck because it makes use of combat tricks and plays with a bunch of cool cards that don't see a ton of play. So it's fun for me to pull Hellspark from the bin and plop some dice on to a few odd balls and steal some games. The deck is definitely capable of 4-0'ing a local FNM but I've played it in a GP setting and from what I've seen it doesn't have the legs to be that level of good.
For what it's worth, I get that you want to Repeal tokens made on the opponents side from Pongify. I would respond to that by saying, if you need a card to clean up for a different card, you shouldn't make the mess in the first place. As far as this deck is concerned Pongify reads, "U - Instant - As an additional cost, sac a Young Wolf. Make a 2/2 Young Wolf and a 3/3 Ape token. Trigger Evolve twice." Using it on an opponents card is an extreme, last resort option. It has its uses but should be avoided if at all possible.
How has Smuggler's Copter been working for you? It doesn't trigger Evolve but the evasion and looting seem decent. It also gives some legs to your late game 1/1s. I may need to try it out over Kari Zev. She's solid but definitely is a flex spot in my list.
UR Phoenix 1-2: I swiftly took game one, he settled on a thing in the ice and I killed it with pongify and took over the game. Game two, i brought him to 3 life and he was able to flip Thing In the Ice for game. Game 3, I also applied a ton of pressure, went for the kill with atarka's command and he had a dispel. Left him at 1. He couldn't flip a thing in the ice and I couldn't evolve cloudfin raptor for 1 point of damage to close out the game, until he finally flipped it. Really unfortunate loss.
Mono-Green Tron 1-2: Same as UR Phoenix game one, I swarmed the board before he could answer my threats. Game two, he landed ugin on turn 4 and wiped me, bolted him to 2 with a bolt in hand and pass. He armageddons me with sundering titan and kills me. Game 3, brought him to 3 life, also with a bolt in hand, and he casts ulamog to exile my red source. Also another unfortunately loss, didn't see any SB at all.
Mono-red goblins 2-0: it was a really strange jank build where he planned to either turn 1-2 blood moon, or turn 1 Warren instigator to cheat out two goblins on turn one. I was able to swarm to board before he played moon game one. Game two, just didn't let his instigator live.
Tron is a known matchup for the deck, probably more so than Phoenix. I just boarded in stubborn denials to spike karn and ugin. UR Phoenix is something else, though. Doesn't seem that bad, all we seem to care about is Thing In the Ice, as long as it doesn't flip, we can usually find a way to win. Makes the 3rd time I've missed taking the match against the deck.
GBW Abzan Midrange
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/decks/9485-temur-evolve RUG
GBR Jund Flayer
Naya Zoo GRW
Pauper:
Izzet Blitz UR
Standard:
Izzet Drakes UR
UR Izzet Wizards