I'm surely in the minority as I run B/R Hollow One with Amalgams, and that may prove to be the less effective list, but I've been having a ball playing it the last few FNM's. I went 3-1 with my list last night, grabbing 4th at my local FNM.
I love the deck; it has such power and resilience, and can be crazy explosive. I lost one match, a terrible matchup against a Lantern deck, when he stabilized early, got the Ensnaring Bridge out early, and had me "locked" soon thereafter. I scooped rather than have my soul ground out by the Lantern deck, but was pleased with good results after that.
Turn 1 Hollow Ones are powerful, but unreliable due to all the random discard. I had this great sequence last night. Turn 1 Adept, Turn 2, Faithless Looting, draw two, discard Bloodghast, discard Amalgam, cycle Street Wraith, play land, Landfall trigger Bloodghast, activate Amalgam (EoT), cast Hollow One, cast Burning Inquiry with my available red mana, we both draw three, discard 3 at random, attack for 7 with Flameblade, end of turn Amalgam into play. My opponent just shook his head. It was a great 2 turn set up. The deck is a lot of fun.
not sure how many modern challenges i need to crush on for people to catch on... takes some learning to know when/how to use it, it gets boarded out often as well... anyways, list will go up top 8 this weeks challenge tomorrow.
went down on grave hate with the list. added hand disruption for more control matches (i assumed) ... butttt jace 100% does not matter to our decks fortunately.
beat:
2x UR jace moon thing
e tron
bushwhacker zoo
burn
2x jeskai control
loss:
g tron (did not see a hollow one both games)
burn (fizzle g3 no presure) top 8
per usual both losses are not bad matches (actually good ones) , but the deck beating itself ( pitching hollow ones, not seeing them, etc.)
How are (RB) people siding for Affinity? I'm struggling with this match-up. We have a number of options that can be relevant, but it's not clear to me how to balance the best options with maintaining our core plan of attack.
Run more interaction, have 3 answers in your SB. Rakdos Charm is pretty good, and with a bit of interaction in the main (and even Lightning Axe in the Side!), you can out-race them a lot of the time.
I love this. I was giving thought to squeezing in a couple Devastating Summons to turn our land into additional gas once we’re hand depleted, but I think this is a nice option to turn land into gas a little earlier than endgame.
I've played about 15 games with Macabre Waltz as a 2-of, so very limited sample, but it has yet to do much of anything to influence a game. Usually it gets pitched to a looting spell. When it hasn't, it always seemed to be in hand at the wrong time.
Anybody fiddle around with sweepers like Pyroclasm, Sweltering Suns, or Toxic Deluge in the SB? They seem like they could be very good in some matchups (I'm thinking fast creature decks like Affinity and Humans or go-wide decks with chump blocking tokens), especially since we can mitigate their symmetry.
I don't see what this version offers over the BR build.
It loses some of the better threats in Gurmag Angler and Flamewake Phoenix.
Search is really slow and not good for the deck and Ruinator is like a (much) harder to cast delve creature that costs 6-mana (1UU + delve 3 creatures)
and works against the plan of reanimating Bloodghast and Amalgam as you wouldn't want to exile those.
How are (RB) people siding for Affinity? I'm struggling with this match-up. We have a number of options that can be relevant, but it's not clear to me how to balance the best options with maintaining our core plan of attack.
Hi, I went to GP Lyon to play my RG vengevine version where I had only 1 bye for the tournament. I had a great weekend and I enjoyed a lot playing the deck but I also realised that my sideboard was far from ideal, Ravenous Trap underperformed and I think there were 2 rounds that I could have probably won if I were playing Leyline of the Void instead. This is the list I played:
I managed to finish day 1 with a 6-2 record, day 2 didn't go very well as I made a parcial of 3-4 so in the end my total record was 9-6.
Day 1
R1 - Win vs Bye
R2 - Win vs UW Control - Favorable matchup, usually you pressure them a lot, they Supreme Verdict on turn 4, then you cast 2 creatures and finish them off with Vengevine but if the game goes too long they might be able to control the board so try to pressure them
R3 - Win vs Abzan - Although my opponent played all hate on turns 1 (Nihil Spellbomb) and 2 (Scavenging Ooze) of game 1 I got a really overpowered opener and kill her on turn 3, I think this matchup is favorable but not by a great margin
R4 - Lost vs Burn - I had to mulligan both games and in game 2 I tried to cast Gnaw to the Bone but my opponent had Skullcrack ready to prevent it and then drew another burn spell to finish me off
R5 - Win vs Tron - This should be a good matchup unless they go T3 Wurmcoil Engine T4 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger, openers with Flameblade Adept are great agains't these slow decks without spot removal
R6 - Win vs UR pyromancer - In game 1 I crushed him so fast that I didn't see more than an island, Serum visions and Field of Ruin so I put him on UW, I won game 2 and got asked why I had sided Destructive Revelry and Heroic Intervention agains't him after getting my Vengevine removed with Surgical Extraction, that was fun
R7 - Lost to Dredge - I lost game 1, game 2 opponent starts with double Leyline and is crushed by my Flameblade Adept and my Hollow One, game 3 he starts with Leyline again and I had Ravenous Trap ready to fight but something unexpected happens as my opponent sided in Thoughtseize so he is able to remove it before going off and I feel bad for not playing Leyline of the Void
R8 - Win vs Titanshift - This match went smooth, he didn't get to defend too much from my T4 kills
Day 2
R9 - Lost to Living End - My opponent played a great G2 and was able to kill me without even casting Living End, G3 I had my Noose Constrictor ready to discard if he casts Living End but he had 2 Faerie Macabre to crush my plan removing my large creatures before resolution
R10 - Win vs Mardu Pyromancer - the only matchup where I don't use my sideboard, I think this is our best pairing so far
R11 - Lost to U-Tron - I think this is a good matchup, G3 after putting him below 0 life (he had Platinum Angel) I couldn't find any Artifact destruction in half my library, I was about to kill his angel when he attacked without realizing Noose Constrictor had reach and I had 3 cards in hand but he was lucky to have Snapcaster Mage to flashback Repeal and save his angel after I pumped it two times.
R12 - Lost to vizier Company - I didn't find Grim Lavamancer in G1 and he comboed me on T3, G2 I had Grim Lavamancer but he starts off with Leyline of the Void, ouch. I put some pressure on him but manages to go over the top with Chord of Calling and some scrys from Viscera Seer
R13 - Win vs UW Control - This round was crazy, I won game 1 easily and crushed even more easily (T3)on G2, after that he showed me he kept a pretty good hand including a Supreme Verdict that he never got to cast (I went T1 Flameblade Adept, T2 Noose Constrictor, discard 2 Vengevine and Flamewake Phoenix to cast Hollow One for free and hit for 12, he had to cast a Snapcaster to chumpblock
R14 - Lost vs Abzan - I didn't get any explosive starts and it was very disputed game, G3 I was using my Squee, Goblin Nabob to chump block his Tarmogoyf every turn while my Flamewake Phoenix kept hitting him for 2 each turn but he topdecked 2 consecutive Fatal Push that allowed him to hit me twice and kill me 1 turn before I had lethal (now I realize I didn't even check if he triggered Revolt, probably one of those shouldn't have resolved and I should have won that game unless he had 2 fetches ready for it but I can't remember that)
R15 - Win vs Mardu Pyromancer - As the previous time, the pairing is quite favorable and I were able to win game 1 and then pull off a very good start in G2 like I didn on R13 vs UW control, my opponent was really nice and we both had a lot of fun playing which is always a great way to finish a GP
I know my deck is not the typical build but I wanted something that can do the more insane starts while still be grindy when the game goes long, I think my sideboard needed some changes and now that I run Squee, Goblin Nabob, I feel like Lightning Axe should be in the sideboard instead of Dismember, I also miss a way to kill opposing 1 toughness creatures or make my creatures unblockable agains't stall boards like the ones you get vs Eldrazi or Humans so I want to give Barrage the Boulders a shot as it fills both roles, here is the list I would submit if there were a tournament today (without taking into account Bloodbraid Elf and Jace, the Mind Sculptor unbannings):
With Bloodbraid Elf now available I might try her but I am unsure as a cost 4 in this deck is not likely the best option, maybe I could run just 1 copy, it should enable Vengevine most of the times since I only play 8 noncreature spells in my main
Hey, I played your list, playing B/r hollow one for the first time tonight at a local tourney. I went +1 Gurmag -1 Edge of autumn in the main, and I quickly realized this was a mistake, I think the correct amount of delve threats is 3. Too many times I would be stuck with an extra gurmag in hand after delving my graveyard away for the first one. Your list seemed really interesting too me with the 3 edge of autumn, it allows for more turn 1 hollow ones with faithless looting. I went 2-2 losing to U/r thing with jace and affinity. Got kind of unlucky against u/r not drawing any hollow ones after cycling through a bunch of cards games 2 and 3, while also fighting through a turn one relic in both games. The games against affinty felt like a straight up race, I sided in quite a bit of removal, but it still felt like we were largely ignoring each other and not doing alot of blocking. Affinity is definatly favored in the race scenario if you can draw any of your anti artifact sideboard cards, the simply have too many evasive threats. Are you ever sideboarding out threats, or do you keep the maximum amount of hits in after sideboard? I found it really hard to cut anything but edge of autumn, and maybe a gurmag angler.
I didn't have the chance to win a game with Barrage the Boulders yet but I have seen how much better Leyline of the Void is compared to Ravenous Trap so I will definitely keep playing with those for now, Jund with Bloodbraid Elf is being played a lot and I believe it is a favorable matchup although sometimes tricky, Squee, Goblin Nabob is a great chumpblocker here and a sacrifice for Liliana of the Veil if you only have another creature, it is very good for grindy pairings.
Hi, I had to test this last idea for the deck on Magic Online and it has performed quite well 4-1, 4-1, 3-2, 4-1 and finally 5-0
What really seems off to me is the Noose Constrictors in this deck. Are they really worth running? Is it thanks to Squee that they work?? My initial impression is that they just seem pretty sub-par but I've been wrong plenty of times before. Squee is a card I love so I'd be interested in trying it, but it does seem a little slow to get value from potentially as well. It seems your games went pretty well overall though! 80% win rate over 5 leagues is pretty good.
affinity i find to be fine. plating and vault skirge can be annoying... it just depends on what we have vs them. like etched champ is great it we have no hollow ones, etc. pyroclasm is great in that match, and also vs any token deck, and i can justify it in the 75 for sure.
yeah, edge of autumn is great at filling the grave quick with a relic out or whatever, i usually just bait them with a flamewake or ghast to crack their relic, and move on from there and rebuild. Edge gets sided out often (Except vs burn, i keep it in over street wraith) some matches ill take a ghast, or an angler out, but flamewakes, hollow ones, and flameblades are our best threats... collective brutality comes out a lot as well, and sometimes 1 burning inquiry vs like dredge.
Yeah I feel some some sort of sweeping effect would be good, Young pyromancer was pretty good at gumming up the ground and buying my opponent time, what do you think about engineered explosives?
Rakdos Charm. The answer never stops being Rakdos Charm and more Maindeck reach/interaction. 15 discard outlets is unnecessary, IMO; 12-13 is fine, so you then run a few Fiery Temper, giving you more reach and interaction. Then you Board in Charms in the next Game over Tempers, works against almost every problem this deck has.
Worried about which GY hate to run? MAYBE one or two Leyline, but mostly Rakdos Charm.
Affinity got you down? Stop pesky Ravager/Plate/Skirge shenanigans at Instant Speed with Rakdos Charm!
Opponent has a Pyromancer and 6 tokens, or a Board full of 10 Tribal creatures? Then they're super dead to Rakdos Charm!
Hi, I had to test this last idea for the deck on Magic Online and it has performed quite well 4-1, 4-1, 3-2, 4-1 and finally 5-0
What really seems off to me is the Noose Constrictors in this deck. Are they really worth running? Is it thanks to Squee that they work?? My initial impression is that they just seem pretty sub-par but I've been wrong plenty of times before. Squee is a card I love so I'd be interested in trying it, but it does seem a little slow to get value from potentially as well. It seems your games went pretty well overall though! 80% win rate over 5 leagues is pretty good.
I used to play them before I tested Squee, Goblin Nabob, they are a great discard outlet and make a great attacking team with Flameblade Adept, another thing is that everyone seems to forget it has reach so sometimes they mess up with it although I guess you can't count on that happening every time haha
Frank Karsten has run the numbers on hollow one hits off of our random discard effects, plus it is useful to know that a turn 1 burning inquiry with no hollow ones in hand only has a 10-15% chance of paying off.
The calculations do not account for the delve or recursive creatures, but still pretty good.
Frank Karsten has run the numbers on hollow one hits off of our random discard effects, plus it is useful to know that a turn 1 burning inquiry with no hollow ones in hand only has a 10-15% chance of paying off. ...
Of course, those magical turn 1 moments still happen! See screenshot....
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I love the deck; it has such power and resilience, and can be crazy explosive. I lost one match, a terrible matchup against a Lantern deck, when he stabilized early, got the Ensnaring Bridge out early, and had me "locked" soon thereafter. I scooped rather than have my soul ground out by the Lantern deck, but was pleased with good results after that.
Turn 1 Hollow Ones are powerful, but unreliable due to all the random discard. I had this great sequence last night. Turn 1 Adept, Turn 2, Faithless Looting, draw two, discard Bloodghast, discard Amalgam, cycle Street Wraith, play land, Landfall trigger Bloodghast, activate Amalgam (EoT), cast Hollow One, cast Burning Inquiry with my available red mana, we both draw three, discard 3 at random, attack for 7 with Flameblade, end of turn Amalgam into play. My opponent just shook his head. It was a great 2 turn set up. The deck is a lot of fun.
not sure how many modern challenges i need to crush on for people to catch on... takes some learning to know when/how to use it, it gets boarded out often as well... anyways, list will go up top 8 this weeks challenge tomorrow.
went down on grave hate with the list. added hand disruption for more control matches (i assumed) ... butttt jace 100% does not matter to our decks fortunately.
beat:
2x UR jace moon thing
e tron
bushwhacker zoo
burn
2x jeskai control
loss:
g tron (did not see a hollow one both games)
burn (fizzle g3 no presure) top 8
per usual both losses are not bad matches (actually good ones) , but the deck beating itself ( pitching hollow ones, not seeing them, etc.)
I love this. I was giving thought to squeezing in a couple Devastating Summons to turn our land into additional gas once we’re hand depleted, but I think this is a nice option to turn land into gas a little earlier than endgame.
It loses some of the better threats in Gurmag Angler and Flamewake Phoenix.
Search is really slow and not good for the deck and Ruinator is like a (much) harder to cast delve creature that costs 6-mana (1UU + delve 3 creatures)
and works against the plan of reanimating Bloodghast and Amalgam as you wouldn't want to exile those.
The deck is also not really optimized for casting quick Hollow Ones without: Street Wraith, Burning Inquiry and Goblin Lore.
Prized Amalgam is the only good thing in that list imho and it is better in the mono-red version with: Hellspark Elemental as an additional enabler.
If you are running a similar build to the pro tour list, swap your 2x Collective Brutality out for 2x Ancient Grudge. Lightning Bolt is good against all of their creatures bar Etched Champion, so keep all four in for post board games.
Then play the most aggressive lines available to you and hope to win the race.
4 Flameblade Adept
4 Insolent Neonate
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Noose Constrictor
4 Flamewake Phoenix
2 Squee, Goblin Nabob
4 Vengevine
4 Hollow One
2 Hooting Mandrills
4 Street Wraith
4 Faithless Looting
4 Goblin Lore
Lands
1 Forest
3 Mountain
3 Stomping Ground
2 Copperline Gorge
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Ravenous Trap
2 Dismember
3 Ancient Grudge
2 Destructive Revelry
2 Heroic Intervention
2 Blood Moon
2 Gnaw to the Bone
I managed to finish day 1 with a 6-2 record, day 2 didn't go very well as I made a parcial of 3-4 so in the end my total record was 9-6.
Day 1
R1 - Win vs Bye
R2 - Win vs UW Control - Favorable matchup, usually you pressure them a lot, they Supreme Verdict on turn 4, then you cast 2 creatures and finish them off with Vengevine but if the game goes too long they might be able to control the board so try to pressure them
R3 - Win vs Abzan - Although my opponent played all hate on turns 1 (Nihil Spellbomb) and 2 (Scavenging Ooze) of game 1 I got a really overpowered opener and kill her on turn 3, I think this matchup is favorable but not by a great margin
R4 - Lost vs Burn - I had to mulligan both games and in game 2 I tried to cast Gnaw to the Bone but my opponent had Skullcrack ready to prevent it and then drew another burn spell to finish me off
R5 - Win vs Tron - This should be a good matchup unless they go T3 Wurmcoil Engine T4 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger, openers with Flameblade Adept are great agains't these slow decks without spot removal
R6 - Win vs UR pyromancer - In game 1 I crushed him so fast that I didn't see more than an island, Serum visions and Field of Ruin so I put him on UW, I won game 2 and got asked why I had sided Destructive Revelry and Heroic Intervention agains't him after getting my Vengevine removed with Surgical Extraction, that was fun
R7 - Lost to Dredge - I lost game 1, game 2 opponent starts with double Leyline and is crushed by my Flameblade Adept and my Hollow One, game 3 he starts with Leyline again and I had Ravenous Trap ready to fight but something unexpected happens as my opponent sided in Thoughtseize so he is able to remove it before going off and I feel bad for not playing Leyline of the Void
R8 - Win vs Titanshift - This match went smooth, he didn't get to defend too much from my T4 kills
Day 2
R9 - Lost to Living End - My opponent played a great G2 and was able to kill me without even casting Living End, G3 I had my Noose Constrictor ready to discard if he casts Living End but he had 2 Faerie Macabre to crush my plan removing my large creatures before resolution
R10 - Win vs Mardu Pyromancer - the only matchup where I don't use my sideboard, I think this is our best pairing so far
R11 - Lost to U-Tron - I think this is a good matchup, G3 after putting him below 0 life (he had Platinum Angel) I couldn't find any Artifact destruction in half my library, I was about to kill his angel when he attacked without realizing Noose Constrictor had reach and I had 3 cards in hand but he was lucky to have Snapcaster Mage to flashback Repeal and save his angel after I pumped it two times.
R12 - Lost to vizier Company - I didn't find Grim Lavamancer in G1 and he comboed me on T3, G2 I had Grim Lavamancer but he starts off with Leyline of the Void, ouch. I put some pressure on him but manages to go over the top with Chord of Calling and some scrys from Viscera Seer
R13 - Win vs UW Control - This round was crazy, I won game 1 easily and crushed even more easily (T3)on G2, after that he showed me he kept a pretty good hand including a Supreme Verdict that he never got to cast (I went T1 Flameblade Adept, T2 Noose Constrictor, discard 2 Vengevine and Flamewake Phoenix to cast Hollow One for free and hit for 12, he had to cast a Snapcaster to chumpblock
R14 - Lost vs Abzan - I didn't get any explosive starts and it was very disputed game, G3 I was using my Squee, Goblin Nabob to chump block his Tarmogoyf every turn while my Flamewake Phoenix kept hitting him for 2 each turn but he topdecked 2 consecutive Fatal Push that allowed him to hit me twice and kill me 1 turn before I had lethal (now I realize I didn't even check if he triggered Revolt, probably one of those shouldn't have resolved and I should have won that game unless he had 2 fetches ready for it but I can't remember that)
R15 - Win vs Mardu Pyromancer - As the previous time, the pairing is quite favorable and I were able to win game 1 and then pull off a very good start in G2 like I didn on R13 vs UW control, my opponent was really nice and we both had a lot of fun playing which is always a great way to finish a GP
I know my deck is not the typical build but I wanted something that can do the more insane starts while still be grindy when the game goes long, I think my sideboard needed some changes and now that I run Squee, Goblin Nabob, I feel like Lightning Axe should be in the sideboard instead of Dismember, I also miss a way to kill opposing 1 toughness creatures or make my creatures unblockable agains't stall boards like the ones you get vs Eldrazi or Humans so I want to give Barrage the Boulders a shot as it fills both roles, here is the list I would submit if there were a tournament today (without taking into account Bloodbraid Elf and Jace, the Mind Sculptor unbannings):
4 Flameblade Adept
4 Insolent Neonate
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Noose Constrictor
4 Flamewake Phoenix
2 Squee, Goblin Nabob
4 Vengevine
4 Hollow One
2 Hooting Mandrills
4 Street Wraith
4 Faithless Looting
4 Goblin Lore
Lands
1 Forest
3 Mountain
3 Stomping Ground
2 Copperline Gorge
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Lightning Axe
3 Ancient Grudge
2 Destructive Revelry
2 Blood Moon
1 Gnaw to the Bone
1 Barrage the Boulders
With Bloodbraid Elf now available I might try her but I am unsure as a cost 4 in this deck is not likely the best option, maybe I could run just 1 copy, it should enable Vengevine most of the times since I only play 8 noncreature spells in my main
I didn't have the chance to win a game with Barrage the Boulders yet but I have seen how much better Leyline of the Void is compared to Ravenous Trap so I will definitely keep playing with those for now, Jund with Bloodbraid Elf is being played a lot and I believe it is a favorable matchup although sometimes tricky, Squee, Goblin Nabob is a great chumpblocker here and a sacrifice for Liliana of the Veil if you only have another creature, it is very good for grindy pairings.
What really seems off to me is the Noose Constrictors in this deck. Are they really worth running? Is it thanks to Squee that they work?? My initial impression is that they just seem pretty sub-par but I've been wrong plenty of times before. Squee is a card I love so I'd be interested in trying it, but it does seem a little slow to get value from potentially as well. It seems your games went pretty well overall though! 80% win rate over 5 leagues is pretty good.
yeah, edge of autumn is great at filling the grave quick with a relic out or whatever, i usually just bait them with a flamewake or ghast to crack their relic, and move on from there and rebuild. Edge gets sided out often (Except vs burn, i keep it in over street wraith) some matches ill take a ghast, or an angler out, but flamewakes, hollow ones, and flameblades are our best threats... collective brutality comes out a lot as well, and sometimes 1 burning inquiry vs like dredge.
Worried about which GY hate to run? MAYBE one or two Leyline, but mostly Rakdos Charm.
Affinity got you down? Stop pesky Ravager/Plate/Skirge shenanigans at Instant Speed with Rakdos Charm!
Opponent has a Pyromancer and 6 tokens, or a Board full of 10 Tribal creatures? Then they're super dead to Rakdos Charm!
Just my opinion, anyway.
I used to play them before I tested Squee, Goblin Nabob, they are a great discard outlet and make a great attacking team with Flameblade Adept, another thing is that everyone seems to forget it has reach so sometimes they mess up with it although I guess you can't count on that happening every time haha
They are another creature to trigger Vengevine and it can enable a T2 Vengevine if you have the proper hand (Squee, Goblin Nabob and Flamewake Phoenix make that a little easier btw), just cast it, discard 3 cards and cast Hollow One for 0 to return your Vengevine attacking
All in all, I think this upgraded Wild Mongrel deserves 4 spots in my build as it fills so many roles at once in the Vengevine build.
Frank Karsten has run the numbers on hollow one hits off of our random discard effects, plus it is useful to know that a turn 1 burning inquiry with no hollow ones in hand only has a 10-15% chance of paying off.
The calculations do not account for the delve or recursive creatures, but still pretty good.
Of course, those magical turn 1 moments still happen! See screenshot....