After not playing for over a year, I decided to try and get back into the swing of things after playing a few weeks back. I really love the idea of Death's Shadow and really love the Mardu colors. So I decided to try it out. It always feels like it's missing that "something" but I'm not sure what it is. Looking for some ideas/pointers on what to change. I will explain my card choices at the end.
I originally had Bedlam Reveler in the spot of Gurms, but I found it easier to put pressure out earlier with 6 of any cards in the yard then Instants/Sorcery in the yard. I'm still not sure which one I like more but I do enjoy the faster pressure that Gurms adds to the deck.
Goblin Rabblemaster was included into the main after feeling that I didn't have enough threats in the main. It will probably get cut but he's in there for now.
Kolaghan's Command are still in the main as remnants of me attempting to build Mardu Pyromancer. There are some games where I'm happy to have them main and other games where it just doesn't feel good in my opening hand. I love the card but may move one or both to the board.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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With the upcoming repring of Unearth I wonder if this deck can become more viable as it will be able to more effectively run out 3-cmc threats in addition to DS and Angler which it was really lacking compared to the Grixis/Jund versions which had far better 2-drops.
Being able to get back 3-drops is a good upgrade over Claim // Fame and being able to cycle it compensates over the loss of the back half.
One of these 3-cmc options can be Lightning Skelemental as it has good damage and hand disruption.
While Unearth could be a very useful tool for the deck, I feel like Postmortem Lunge is a stronger card because the haste, and it really doesn't see any play.
While I haven't played for quite some time now, I do plan to dust this deck off soon here with some changes. Modern looks a little different then it did when we posted it. I do fear all the graveyard hate running around right now.
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Lunge isn't as good if you are playing an attrition game rather than some kind of a combo-kill game (together with Battle Rage). Unearth is also never a dead card without a target in the GY (or against GY-hate) as it has cycling.
Unearth getting back 3-drops is the main thing it has going for it (otherwise Claim // Fame is better) and it makes Faithless Looting better as it is easier to pitch creatures knowing to can easily get them back.
Some more potentially playable 3-drops might be:
With such a large count of instant and sorcery spells I wonder if maybe young pyromancer may be better than something else already in here. Especially since quite a few cards have flashback.
I guess my big problem with Unearth. is that it feels like I would have to add more creatures to the main to get the most value from it. Having cycle does help to feed Gurmag Angler if nothing else. But returning a Death's Shadow and allowing the opponent a turn to answer it seems weak to me. I will have to try and do some testing with it when I can but I'm not sure when my schedule will free up.
The deck used to have 2 Young Pyros in the main when I first put the deck together but they never felt good to me game one. Casting it turn 2 felt like a waste of turn(even if it ate removal) and the deck always seemed to run out of hand very quickly. I did play two out of the board and loved them there. I was able to steal a few games because of them.
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Unearth with Ranger-Captain of Eos seems like some real strong synergy. I would think Seasoned Pyromancer could slide right into a Unearth build too. Late game draw could be strong and card selection can be good some games. I could see it getting stuck in hand a lot too. But the risk could be worth it.
Poor Goblin Rabblemaster has never panned out to be the closer I wanted it to be. I try to fit him into so many different decks.
Have you tested with your list? If so, how did it run for you? I'm liking what I see but I have no time frame for when I will be able to play again.
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I've played some matches with the deck and so far I was rather impressed with Lightning Skelemental and Unearth but the sample size is still too small to draw any conclusions yet.
This is a very unsual looking list, I guess it is heavily geared towards beating the "Hogaak Bridgewine" decks with all the GY hate
(Surgical + Spellbomb) it is packing.
The 4x SB Yixlid Jailer is bizzare imho, how is it better than Remorseful Cleric (or Leyline/Trap/Ashiok) ?
I never considered Dreadhorde Arcanist for the deck but without cantrips I don't know how useful it is.
It reminds me a bit of Abbot of Keral Keep which is also good with a low spell curve.
Giver of Runes on the other hand seems like a great idea, to protect the shadows and help push through blockers.
When building the deck some time ago I considered Emerge Unscathed for a similar purpose but eventually discarded the idea.
I don't really see the point of Mishra's Bauble here, as this deck doesn't have delve cards to "feed" and isn't trying to turn on Delirium.
I'd probably just play 2x more Faithless Looting and maybe 2x Night's Whisper instead.
This deck is the real deal. I would like to request from the mods for a primer for this archetype because, while similar in ways to both Jund and Grixis, it is really a whole new Shadow variant and IMHO more powerful than it's predecessors. It has the staying power of Grixis Shadow while supplying more consistent threats as Traverse Shadow could. It doesn't rely as much on the graveyard as either of the archetypes though and that may be the best part.
(I'm not volunteering to write the primer per se..because Flying Delver and Izzetmage are the BEST, but if no one is interested I would be willing to get started on it..anyone else interested?)
Personally I'm not sold on the Baubles in Abe & Jeremy's list from the SCG lineup but its hard to argue with their results. I can't imagine playing Shadow without Temur Battle Rage though. It makes winning matches like Tron and Burn so much easier. Even Hogaak can be difficult because they make a lot of blockers (despite 3 of their main cards inability to block).
Here is my list and some thoughts:
I'm always worried about losing to Tron and Burn so I've tailored my sideboard a bit. My biggest concern with the current stock list is that the sideboard has so many three-drops. It doesn't make sense to take out more than 1-2 captains so by bringing in something like 5-6 three drops I just worry it increases the curve too much post board. There are a few other lists that run zero baubles and instead run 3x Nihil Spellbomb and 20x land and then Seasoned Pyromancer as an additional way to help mitigate flooding. Seems promising but again, such a high mana curve with 5-6 maindeck three drops.
I really like Lightning Bolt in the deck as it gives another spell for Arcanist to target and it helps shore up the Infect and Humans match-ups. I won a game against Tron just by Bolting them twice and flashing it back twice with Arcanist (and a single attack from a 5/5 Shadow). In the few games I tried with the Bauble list I found that Arcanist often times swings blank because my graveyard has only Wraiths and Baubles. And regarding Arcanist and it's relevance against infect - he is sorcery speed even when your removal is instant, so it's good to have more instant speed removal in the case of Inkmoth Nexus. Bolt of course is also another way to hurt yourself when you need to swing big with Shadows.
Seeing how MTGSalvation is going down on July 8th, I don't see it getting a primer on here. I am glad to see the deck I was rolling with last year finally got the pieces to make the deck viable.
FuneralofGod, I have been following you in the Jund Death's Shadow for some time now so I am happy to see you in here with good words on Mardu Death's Shadow. I don't have the money to make the deck the way it is now, but I know I will keep my eye on the deck going forward.
As for the Jailer, I honestly can't say.
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Jailer is the best form of hate against Bridge Vine because they run so few answers to it. Dark blast is about the only thing that can deal with it but even then we have unearth.
While I'm not fully sold on the Jailer, Unearth does make it look a littler better to me
The Hogaak Lists from the SCG were packing a ton of creature hate. 2 Push, 2 Trophy, 2 Brutality, 1 Plague Engineer. These players came prepared for the Jailer!
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So why are those alternatives not so great,
(note that jailer is more or less only for hogaak)
Remorseful Cleric and Ravenous Trap only hit once which isn't good enough for a deck that can't close out games quickly.
Ashiok hits a few times but is at sorcery speed and not being able to search isnt very relevant against hogaak.
Leyline is only good in your opening hand as it is otherwise too slow.
Jailer is able to blank pretty much everything in hogaak from bridge to bloodghasts and the big 8/8 himself until it gets removed. It comes down early and doesn't affect any of our cards. It being a creature is also pretty important since most hogaak decks don't play that much creature removal and it can be tough to deal with 4 plus however many times you unearth it. Most hogaak lists run 3/4 with some of the more recent lists going up to 6 (presumably to deal with jailer) but they don't really have a good way of digging for creature removal and you can clear the way with discard spells.
Especially with Unearth I'd prefer to run Remorseful Cleric and just exile the yard instead of shutting down some abilities.
As a flying threat it can also clock them before you need to pull the trigger on theit GY.
A problem I had with the deck is being run over smaller creature decks so I consider putting back something like Pyroclasm in the SB to deal with them.
This deck is the real deal. I would like to request from the mods for a primer for this archetype because, while similar in ways to both Jund and Grixis, it is really a whole new Shadow variant and IMHO more powerful than it's predecessors. It has the staying power of Grixis Shadow while supplying more consistent threats as Traverse Shadow could. It doesn't rely as much on the graveyard as either of the archetypes though and that may be the best part.
(I'm not volunteering to write the primer per se..because Flying Delver and Izzetmage are the BEST, but if no one is interested I would be willing to get started on it..anyone else interested?)
Personally I'm not sold on the Baubles in Abe & Jeremy's list from the SCG lineup but its hard to argue with their results. I can't imagine playing Shadow without Temur Battle Rage though. It makes winning matches like Tron and Burn so much easier. Even Hogaak can be difficult because they make a lot of blockers (despite 3 of their main cards inability to block).
Here is my list and some thoughts:
I'm always worried about losing to Tron and Burn so I've tailored my sideboard a bit. My biggest concern with the current stock list is that the sideboard has so many three-drops. It doesn't make sense to take out more than 1-2 captains so by bringing in something like 5-6 three drops I just worry it increases the curve too much post board. There are a few other lists that run zero baubles and instead run 3x Nihil Spellbomb and 20x land and then Seasoned Pyromancer as an additional way to help mitigate flooding. Seems promising but again, such a high mana curve with 5-6 maindeck three drops.
I really like Lightning Bolt in the deck as it gives another spell for Arcanist to target and it helps shore up the Infect and Humans match-ups. I won a game against Tron just by Bolting them twice and flashing it back twice with Arcanist (and a single attack from a 5/5 Shadow). In the few games I tried with the Bauble list I found that Arcanist often times swings blank because my graveyard has only Wraiths and Baubles. And regarding Arcanist and it's relevance against infect - he is sorcery speed even when your removal is instant, so it's good to have more instant speed removal in the case of Inkmoth Nexus. Bolt of course is also another way to hurt yourself when you need to swing big with Shadows.
I’mh testing a similar list (basically, -2 Nihil +1 Inquisition +1 Brutality). I’m not sold on the single Stepmom. It is tutorable, but I never felt like it was the correct pick (unless I ran out of Shadows). Having TTB in the maindeck also helps with blockers, obviously. I wonder if the fourth Arcanist wouldn’t be just better.
Regarding Remorseful Cleric vs Yixlid Jailer - Jailer only needs to exist and he shuts them down. With any one-shot graveyard effect, it's very easy for them recover. It honestly doesn't sound like any one here has played that many matches against Hogaak. It's a ridiculously fast engine and it can refill its graveyard in nothing flat. The last piece of graveyard hate they're worried about is a Nihil Spellbomb or a Remorseful Cleric. The deck has so many cogs they can even win over Surgical. Yixlid and Leyline are far and away the best answers, but they are much more prepared for one of those over the other. And don't kid yourself, no one is clocking Hogaak with a 2/1 flyer.
Temur Battle Rage is just great, especially in a deck that can reliably supply a Shadow (unlike Grixis Shadow). Funny enough Arcanist hasn't been that impressive to me. It's the best at filling the Snapcaster role sans blue, so I'll stick with it for now. I'll admit, when it's good..its really good. I personally wouldn't consider going up to 4 unless we substantially change the non-creature suite of the deck.
I liked Arcanist more after I added a couple Lightning bolts. Maybe the 8th discard spell is correct also. That makes me want to add a single Seasoned Pyromancer to mitigate late game discard draws. But I'm not sure if I want 5x main deck three drops. Maybe I'll also try 20 land as some lists have done
With Bridge From Below receiving the ban, it's probably safe to remove the main deck Spellbomb and tweak the Sideboard a bit. I still like Yixlid Jailer because it shuts down dredge nicely. But maybe not 4x is needed? My shot at a new list
The duress is very experimental. Thinking I can bring it in against UW Control, Tron, and Burn. Three popular archetypes that are worse than 50/50 in my experience. I really would like to test out 1 or 2 Seasoned Pyromancer but I just can't bring myself to commit to a double red spell in this deck.
4x Street Wraith
4x Gurmag Angler
1x Goblin Rabblemaster
1x Dismember
2x Fatal Push
2x Temur Battle Rage
2x Kolaghan's Command
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Faithless Looting
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Thoughtseize
4x Lingering Souls
1x Mountain
2x Swamp
1x Godless Shrine
1x Sacred Foundry
2x Blood Crypt
4x Arid Mesa
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Marsh Flats
Now for some of the "odd" choices for the deck.
I originally had Bedlam Reveler in the spot of Gurms, but I found it easier to put pressure out earlier with 6 of any cards in the yard then Instants/Sorcery in the yard. I'm still not sure which one I like more but I do enjoy the faster pressure that Gurms adds to the deck.
Goblin Rabblemaster was included into the main after feeling that I didn't have enough threats in the main. It will probably get cut but he's in there for now.
Kolaghan's Command are still in the main as remnants of me attempting to build Mardu Pyromancer. There are some games where I'm happy to have them main and other games where it just doesn't feel good in my opening hand. I love the card but may move one or both to the board.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=392928
Modern - Mardu Death's Shadow(needs work)
DnT(mono white cause I had the cards)
Legacy - RUG Delver(almost foiled out)
RG Lands
Being able to get back 3-drops is a good upgrade over Claim // Fame and being able to cycle it compensates over the loss of the back half.
One of these 3-cmc options can be Lightning Skelemental as it has good damage and hand disruption.
While I haven't played for quite some time now, I do plan to dust this deck off soon here with some changes. Modern looks a little different then it did when we posted it. I do fear all the graveyard hate running around right now.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=392928
Modern - Mardu Death's Shadow(needs work)
DnT(mono white cause I had the cards)
Legacy - RUG Delver(almost foiled out)
RG Lands
Unearth is also never a dead card without a target in the GY (or against GY-hate) as it has cycling.
Unearth getting back 3-drops is the main thing it has going for it (otherwise Claim // Fame is better) and it makes Faithless Looting better as it is easier to pitch creatures knowing to can easily get them back.
Some more potentially playable 3-drops might be:
# Monastery Mentor (might be a bit slow) which can be a consideration over Lingering Souls perhaps.
# Sin Prodder - can be a card draw engine here, especially good with Angler/Street Wraith as high-cmc cards which are not cast for the full cost anyway.
# Goblin Rabblemaster/Hanweir Garrison - can generate tokens to take over games.
# Ranger-Captain of Eos (gets DS) and Brimaz, King of Oreskos also seem pretty good though WW is hard for a BR based deck to cast.
The deck used to have 2 Young Pyros in the main when I first put the deck together but they never felt good to me game one. Casting it turn 2 felt like a waste of turn(even if it ate removal) and the deck always seemed to run out of hand very quickly. I did play two out of the board and loved them there. I was able to steal a few games because of them.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=392928
Modern - Mardu Death's Shadow(needs work)
DnT(mono white cause I had the cards)
Legacy - RUG Delver(almost foiled out)
RG Lands
4x Death's Shadow
4x Lightning Skelemental
4x Gurmag Angler
4x Street Wraith
Sorcery (16)
4x Thoughtseize
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Faithless Looting
3x Unearth
3x Lingering Souls
Instant (9)
3x Lightning Bolt
3x Path to Exile
3x Fatal Push
4x Bloodstained Mire
3x Marsh Flats
3x Arid Mesa
2x Blood Crypt
2x Godless Shrine
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Silent Clearing
1x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Swamp
1x Fatal Push
1x Path to Exile
1x Gideon of the Trials
1x Rakdos Charm
1x Anguished Unmaking
2x Fulminator Mage
1x Painful Truths
3x Leyline of the Void
2x Nihil Spellbomb
2x Stony Silence
Another option could be to go with Ranger-Captain of Eos over Lightning Skelemental and maybe split it 3/1 with Goblin Rabblemaster.
Ashiok, Dream Render might be a better SB card than Leyline as it hates on search effects besides graveyards.
Ravenous Trap might also be worth consideration.
Poor Goblin Rabblemaster has never panned out to be the closer I wanted it to be. I try to fit him into so many different decks.
Have you tested with your list? If so, how did it run for you? I'm liking what I see but I have no time frame for when I will be able to play again.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=392928
Modern - Mardu Death's Shadow(needs work)
DnT(mono white cause I had the cards)
Legacy - RUG Delver(almost foiled out)
RG Lands
I've played some matches with the deck and so far I was rather impressed with Lightning Skelemental and Unearth but the sample size is still too small to draw any conclusions yet.
Not sure if this is a sign of things to come or just a fluke, but a Mardu Death's Shadow deck seems like it's doing well at the SCG
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=392928
Modern - Mardu Death's Shadow(needs work)
DnT(mono white cause I had the cards)
Legacy - RUG Delver(almost foiled out)
RG Lands
(Surgical + Spellbomb) it is packing.
The 4x SB Yixlid Jailer is bizzare imho, how is it better than Remorseful Cleric (or Leyline/Trap/Ashiok) ?
I never considered Dreadhorde Arcanist for the deck but without cantrips I don't know how useful it is.
It reminds me a bit of Abbot of Keral Keep which is also good with a low spell curve.
Giver of Runes on the other hand seems like a great idea, to protect the shadows and help push through blockers.
When building the deck some time ago I considered Emerge Unscathed for a similar purpose but eventually discarded the idea.
I don't really see the point of Mishra's Bauble here, as this deck doesn't have delve cards to "feed" and isn't trying to turn on Delirium.
I'd probably just play 2x more Faithless Looting and maybe 2x Night's Whisper instead.
(I'm not volunteering to write the primer per se..because Flying Delver and Izzetmage are the BEST, but if no one is interested I would be willing to get started on it..anyone else interested?)
Personally I'm not sold on the Baubles in Abe & Jeremy's list from the SCG lineup but its hard to argue with their results. I can't imagine playing Shadow without Temur Battle Rage though. It makes winning matches like Tron and Burn so much easier. Even Hogaak can be difficult because they make a lot of blockers (despite 3 of their main cards inability to block).
Here is my list and some thoughts:
4 Death's Shadow
4 Street Wraith
4 Ranger-Captain of Eos
3 Dreadhorde Arcanist
1 Giver of Runes
Spells
4 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Path to Exile
2 Fatal Push
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Faithless Looting
2 Unearth
2 Temur Battle Rage
2 Nihil Spellbomb
4 Silent Clearing
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Marsh Flats
1 Arid Mesa
2 Godless Shrine
1 Blood Crypt
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Swamp
1 Plains
4 Yixlid Jailer
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Lingering Souls
1 Plague Engineer
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Collective Brutality
2 Kolaghan's Command
I'm always worried about losing to Tron and Burn so I've tailored my sideboard a bit. My biggest concern with the current stock list is that the sideboard has so many three-drops. It doesn't make sense to take out more than 1-2 captains so by bringing in something like 5-6 three drops I just worry it increases the curve too much post board. There are a few other lists that run zero baubles and instead run 3x Nihil Spellbomb and 20x land and then Seasoned Pyromancer as an additional way to help mitigate flooding. Seems promising but again, such a high mana curve with 5-6 maindeck three drops.
I really like Lightning Bolt in the deck as it gives another spell for Arcanist to target and it helps shore up the Infect and Humans match-ups. I won a game against Tron just by Bolting them twice and flashing it back twice with Arcanist (and a single attack from a 5/5 Shadow). In the few games I tried with the Bauble list I found that Arcanist often times swings blank because my graveyard has only Wraiths and Baubles. And regarding Arcanist and it's relevance against infect - he is sorcery speed even when your removal is instant, so it's good to have more instant speed removal in the case of Inkmoth Nexus. Bolt of course is also another way to hurt yourself when you need to swing big with Shadows.
Draft My Cube!
FuneralofGod, I have been following you in the Jund Death's Shadow for some time now so I am happy to see you in here with good words on Mardu Death's Shadow. I don't have the money to make the deck the way it is now, but I know I will keep my eye on the deck going forward.
As for the Jailer, I honestly can't say.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=392928
Modern - Mardu Death's Shadow(needs work)
DnT(mono white cause I had the cards)
Legacy - RUG Delver(almost foiled out)
RG Lands
Jailer is the best form of hate against Bridge Vine because they run so few answers to it. Dark blast is about the only thing that can deal with it but even then we have unearth.
Also, I don't think the site is closing. check this out
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The Hogaak Lists from the SCG were packing a ton of creature hate. 2 Push, 2 Trophy, 2 Brutality, 1 Plague Engineer. These players came prepared for the Jailer!
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=392928
Modern - Mardu Death's Shadow(needs work)
DnT(mono white cause I had the cards)
Legacy - RUG Delver(almost foiled out)
RG Lands
So why are those alternatives not so great,
(note that jailer is more or less only for hogaak)
Remorseful Cleric and Ravenous Trap only hit once which isn't good enough for a deck that can't close out games quickly.
Ashiok hits a few times but is at sorcery speed and not being able to search isnt very relevant against hogaak.
Leyline is only good in your opening hand as it is otherwise too slow.
Jailer is able to blank pretty much everything in hogaak from bridge to bloodghasts and the big 8/8 himself until it gets removed. It comes down early and doesn't affect any of our cards. It being a creature is also pretty important since most hogaak decks don't play that much creature removal and it can be tough to deal with 4 plus however many times you unearth it. Most hogaak lists run 3/4 with some of the more recent lists going up to 6 (presumably to deal with jailer) but they don't really have a good way of digging for creature removal and you can clear the way with discard spells.
As a flying threat it can also clock them before you need to pull the trigger on theit GY.
A problem I had with the deck is being run over smaller creature decks so I consider putting back something like Pyroclasm in the SB to deal with them.
I’mh testing a similar list (basically, -2 Nihil +1 Inquisition +1 Brutality). I’m not sold on the single Stepmom. It is tutorable, but I never felt like it was the correct pick (unless I ran out of Shadows). Having TTB in the maindeck also helps with blockers, obviously. I wonder if the fourth Arcanist wouldn’t be just better.
Temur Battle Rage is just great, especially in a deck that can reliably supply a Shadow (unlike Grixis Shadow). Funny enough Arcanist hasn't been that impressive to me. It's the best at filling the Snapcaster role sans blue, so I'll stick with it for now. I'll admit, when it's good..its really good. I personally wouldn't consider going up to 4 unless we substantially change the non-creature suite of the deck.
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I had a good experience with Arcanist, mostly because it’s a cc2 Spell, unlike Snappy. Especially when you put back the eighth discard spell maindeck.
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4 Death's Shadow
4 Street Wraith
4 Ranger-Captain of Eos
1 Giver of Runes
3 Dreadhorde Arcanist
4 Thoughtseize
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Path to exile
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Fatal Push
2 Temur battle rage
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Unearth
3 Faithless looting
4 Silent Clearing
4 Marsh Flats
4 Bloodstained mire
1 Arid Mesa
2 Godless shrine
1 Blood crypt
1 Sacred foundry
1 Swamp
1 Plains
3 Yixlid Jailer
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Kolaghan's command
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Plague Engineer
1 Lingering Souls
1 Burrenton Forge Tender
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Duress
The duress is very experimental. Thinking I can bring it in against UW Control, Tron, and Burn. Three popular archetypes that are worse than 50/50 in my experience. I really would like to test out 1 or 2 Seasoned Pyromancer but I just can't bring myself to commit to a double red spell in this deck.
Draft My Cube!