I have run into it but have found ways to win regardless. I’ve found that the times you have it lined up but end up with conscripts or bellower in your hand have been really frustrating and essentially eliminate the line. I could be wrong with this but without some way to shuffle bodies back in (riverwise auger?) could be helpful in that way.
Also not crazy about white!
EDIT: so I’ve been testing incorporating conscripts/bellower back in because I admit I havnt tested them since adding Pact/Servant, and I had a quick question. Am I right to understand that to go off from a single one drop and Vannifar, you need to go one drop>ranger>krasis>hippo>conscripts>bellower for krasis>krasis into hippo>hippo into Kiki, targeting bellower, grab krasis? Because that’s literally every untapped in the deck being cycled through. Am I correct when I say that if ANY of these untappers (9 total counting bellower) end up in hand, exiled, or the graveyard, you cannot actually combo from just a single one drop?
EDIT: so I’ve been testing incorporating conscripts/bellower back in because I admit I havnt tested them since adding Pact/Servant, and I had a quick question. Am I right to understand that to go off from a single one drop and Vannifar, you need to go one drop>ranger>krasis>hippo>conscripts>bellower for krasis>krasis into hippo>hippo into Kiki, targeting bellower, grab krasis? Because that’s literally every untapped in the deck being cycled through. Am I correct when I say that if ANY of these untappers (9 total counting bellower) end up in hand, exiled, or the graveyard, you cannot actually combo from just a single one drop?
Conscripts-Bellower lists typically play 2 Kiki-Jiki in case one ends up in hand, but yes, if any of Scryb/3 Krasis/2 Hippocamp/Conscripts/Bellower end up in a bad spot, you cannot combo off from a lone 1-drop with the Temur chain. You can realistically cast one of the cheaper untappers (Scryb/Krasis/Hippocamp) during the combo turn, though, unless you used a Haste enabler on Vannifar.
Vendilion Clique is probably the better unwanted-combo-piece-tucker, as it also disrupts combo decks.
To me that makes it seem like comboing from a single creature is largely inconsistent - even with all those slots dedicated. Unfortunately there doesn’t seem like much of a workaround to that aside from an active Minamo.
I’ve tested 3x cerulean wisps but didn’t really get enough games in to get a good read on it. With a mana dork in play, it’s virtually a zero mana cantrip to dig for Vannifar. When Vannifar is in play you simply pod into Kitchen Finks, use whisps to untap, and then go off from there. Obviously you have to have it in hand and there will be a nonzero amount of games where you have one creature in play and zero out of the nine cards you can’t draw in hand AND won’t have wisps. I just feel like the ability to combo being based on what’s left in your deck is severely limiting and if built in ways to work around that can be implemented it could allow us to shave some of those expensive and semi useless combo pieces. I think wisps has potential.
the 1 creature chain can just win the game and thats why it is there but i think you are looking at from the wrong aspect. It's not always about comboing off the moment vannifar is in play. If you can do it great but she is also a tool box. If all you want to do is the combo then just replace bellower with sun titan and you have your chain without using most of your deck. also if we really think about it the amount of slots that subpar combo pieces take up is really small.
1 scryb
2 horse
1 conscripts
1 bellower
thats 5 cards and really the horse is the only creature that really doesnt do anything. IMO Temur is the combo shell, bant/4color is the midrange/toolbox and then there is whatever the tear drop/ ranger of eos version is trying to do. the more spells you put in the less consistent it will be for using vannifar.
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If all you want to do is the combo then just replace bellower with sun titan and you have your chain without using most of your deck.
The beauty of the Temur Chain is that it not only allows you to combo off from Vannifar and a lone 1-drop, it also lets you combo off from Vannifar and a lone 2-6-drop (well, as long as the 6-drop is Bellower). The Sun Titan version of the chain cannot let you combo off from Vannifar and a lone 4-6-drop.
Yes, with my leaner-combo version, I've encountered the pain of being unable to combo off with Vannifar and 4-drops multiple times. I figured this was an acceptable price to pay, but apparently, the Temur Chain players don't think so.
Lectrys, I won’t say that the price isn’t worth it but to find a way around it would be ideal! My list is hyper focused on getting Vannifar out and activating it ASAP trying to increase the consistency of it translating to a win seems more important. At what point does requiring two bodies to combo just seem like a better option than essentially doubling the number of untappers (for the record I think krasis is a pretty miserable card). At least for Temur, to win off one creature everything has to literally line up perfectly. I have to imagine just increasing the card quality and lowering the curve could lead to more wins than a more compact combo, but perhaps that’s pointless without adding white. Back to the drawing board, I suppose.
I went back to my original Kiki-Pod list, and a bunch of modern content from a few years ago, and noticed some widely used tech which people have either forgotten about or ignored. These ones stood out to me:
Staticaster I've seen in some recent lists but not all, and it seems like it should be ubiquitous? Redcap forms a 'pod chain' by itself and is actually a super powerful piece of removal if you're able to blink and sac it multiple times.
Body double I'm not too sure about but it enables some funny chains and saw minor play before.
Sower of temptation was a popular one. Steal a creature, pod it away. Super powerful effect and was an instrumental sideboard or maindeck card from the time.
Phantasmal image was the one everyone played though. Copies whatever you need copying to keep the chain going. Usually deceiver exarch but can also copy a large threat or utility creature such as reveillark.
@kOno - I can talk about some of those cards, not all!
Phantasmal Image - this was in the old lists to copy Deceiver, as you said. It was your pod target from a 1-drop. However, since we now have Scryb Ranger to enable a combo, I don't think Image is ever the correct POD target (or very rarely). As a result, the question is "do you want to naturally draw Image", and i think the answer is mainly no. I can see a few scenarios where it is a good POD target, but I'm not sure if there's enough.
Murderous Redcap - it does allow a combo, and blinking it is nice. But I think Glen Elendra is just better in almost all spots. Plus, both cards are pretty clunky when your against a linear deck.
Izzet Staticaster - it's a good card, but it just doesnt have many good MUs anymore. It was great when infect and affinity were everywhere, but that's just not the case anymore. Even lingering souls is at an all-time low. I had it in my SB for about 20 matches and it just wasn't ever that good... perhaps the mirror!
I've not tested the other 2 to be honest, but I do think we're already pretty heavy on 4-drops, with resto/hippo, vannifar and shalai all being pretty great cards to run.
i run a 1 of image which sometimes does come in handy. copying a deputy of detention or knight of autumn can come in handy in some matches. It's not a bad evo/chord target if the opponent has something juicy. to daviusminimus point though we arnt seeing wurmcoils or eldrazi or anything really huge running around to copy so it can be mediocre alot of the times.
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Speaking of image, it actually does a nice imitation of Scryb to let you combo off from two one drops by either copying scryb or an untapper already on the field. The way that clones change CMC could be very interesting for the chains. Body double can help you buy back an untapper you binned earlier in the chain, maybe in some way that’s the solution?
Speaking of image, it actually does a nice imitation of Scryb to let you combo off from two one drops by either copying scryb or an untapper already on the field. The way that clones change CMC could be very interesting for the chains. Body double can help you buy back an untapper you binned earlier in the chain, maybe in some way that’s the solution?
yeah that's basically my thinking too. Phantasmal image can pretend to be any part of a chain, or an opposing threat, or a repeat-effect if you really need to double up on your deputy of detention or something. Having access to that sort of utility was something that the older full-fat pod decks really liked (and it also was part of the pod chain, copying exarch, meaning in a pinch it can still be used the same way).
I'm gonna run one copy maindeck and see how I like it. Also makes impactful sideboard creatures potentially better too.
After having looked at a bunch of lists and watching loads of content, I'm forming the opinion that the temur-bant four colour version with deputy and other utility creatures seems to be the best early build of the deck. No doubt it'll evolve and I've already seen an 'angel pod' variant that's heavily in abzan with SIEGE RHINO (woo!) and all of the variants have a lot of game to them which speaks to the power of vannifar and the birthing pod 'effect'.
Question for you guys: seen quite a few people running Rhythm of the Wild and it seems like a trap to me. Apart from the amazing interaction with persist creatures I'm not sure i see the point. Sure, hasty uncounterable vannifar is nice, but you're messing up your curve, topdecks and all sorts to incorporate this enchantment. I'm really, honestly willing and ready to be proven wrong on this but it just seems like hype-driven wonky deckbuilding
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
i like rythm as a 2 of. My current thought it is a good sideboard but it could possibly be main deckable because of the riot aspect. ive won a couple of games by throwing counters on krasis and co.
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i like rythm as a 2 of. My current thought it is a good sideboard but it could possibly be main deckable because of the riot aspect. ive won a couple of games by throwing counters on krasis and co.
Yeah but I think you get what i mean when I offer the counterpoint to your anecdote there; that if your rationale for it maybe being maindeckable in modern is "because my three mana enchantment made my 3/3 into a 4/4" then... I dunno right? Seems awfully mediocre.
Like I said, I am interested in the interaction with persist creatures. Having an effective infinite loop there is great, and it's powerful, but looping Glen Elendra Archmage a bunch of times isn't necessarily a good enough reason to run a wonky enchantment.
It boils, I think, down to wanting a hasty vannifar. Which means we're worried about sweepers/lili/removal. But then if that's the case, we probably have better options on that front as well. Creatures such as selfless spirit who not only protect your whole team but are tutorable or chord-able, unlike running a three mana enchantment.
Super tricky. I can see the value there but if I'm introducing even the most remote possibility that I topdeck a couple rhythms when I need action, there better be a stonkingly good reason to be running them in modern. Out of the lists I've seen so far, the ones without rhythm have been the most consistent just on an anecdotal 'watching lots of content' level. Time and testing will be the judge of that though, of course.
Maybe if we ran a single viscera seer like melira pod in the past, I'd feel happier about the enchantment's inclusion, because right now it feels (and its definitely a feeling, I haven't been testing with rhythm myself) like the ends don't justify the means on this one.
I'll be following winning lists like a hawk. Obviously vannifar herself is powerful so we'll need to avoid drawing false conclusions but I'll look for trends and keep an eye on how the deck is evolving (I have a sneaking suspicion it'll go the way Birthing Pod did, which is drop the gimmicks and go for the most consistent builds and routes over time)
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
I'm still trying build with rhythm and I'm quite happy with that. It offers some amazing T3 kills when you cast or evo/chord for Vannifar. It is awesome against control, almost any threat we draw after terminus can do some hasty damage to pesky PWs, sometimes it makes creeps bigger with +1/+1 . Still it is a bad topdeck midgame.
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To add to the discussion on image; at the time also had the utility of killing legends especially sticky ones likes Thrun and GoST. Copying Harmonic Sliver for 2 triggers was also cute. Even then it was one of the most situational bullets but was the only way to enable the 1+2 and 1+4 chains. With scryb ranger it seems hard to justify for the "1+2 but no forest" line.
I've still found that Phantasmal Image has helped me combo off through a lack of Forests and through maindeck graveyard hate. Note that I use the Renegade Rallier 1-drop-to-combo chain instead of the Woodland Bellower 1-drop-to-combo chain. I'll note that the Rallier 1-drop-to-combo chain requires the ability to bounce 2 Forests, which I occasionally do not have.
Bellower-chain builds have neither the need nor the room for Phantasmal Image, as they can turn a 1-6-drop into the combo (well, as long as the 6-drop is Bellower and it already tutored out a Bounding Krasis).
@Lectrys - i think the "not having 2 forests" has to be pretty rare? You only need 1, because then you re-play the 2nd during the combo.
How does the Image combo work? I assume it needs more than 1 creature to get started? I dont feel the need for image, but i haven't tested it.
I'm having the most success with Kurusu's build (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1667455#online). I've changed the odd card (don't own hierarchs, surgicals or horizon canopy, so i'm fully budget), and changed up the SB a little bit. The list is a lot better than it looks, and I think it's a good place to start. Double-spellskite has been really nice for what it's worth.
I think if you’re running Rhythm then you almost have to be jamming a Melira. To have a persist creature, a sac outlet, and not being able to tutor for the combo at that point feels bad.
@Lectrys - i think the "not having 2 forests" has to be pretty rare? You only need 1, because then you re-play the 2nd during the combo.
How does the Image combo work? I assume it needs more than 1 creature to get started? I dont feel the need for image, but i haven't tested it.
I'm having the most success with Kurusu's build (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1667455#online). I've changed the odd card (don't own hierarchs, surgicals or horizon canopy, so i'm fully budget), and changed up the SB a little bit. The list is a lot better than it looks, and I think it's a good place to start. Double-spellskite has been really nice for what it's worth.
Occasionally, I end up with a start of Grove of the Burnwillows and a second land along the lines of Hallowed Fountain/Plains/Island/utility land. It's pretty easy to end up with only one Forest from there.
Yes, the Phantasmal Image chain requires 2 non-Vannifar creatures in order to work. The 2 1-drops version of the chain involves tutoring for Scryb Ranger, then Exarch, then Image copying Exarch, then Resto blinking real Exarch, then Kiki-Jiki. The 1-drop + 2-drop version of the chain lets you skip Scryb Ranger.
yeah, but reasonable sac outlets come in black, needles to say, that all of the combo cards are cmc3 or less, so probably better with CoCo and there we are
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@Lectrys - I maybe haven't been fully clear. If you have 1 forest when you start to combo, you return it to hand for scryb ranger to untap. Then you re-play that forest for the turn. I can honestly say I've never been caught without it. I can see the upside to podding a 1-drop into a 2-drop that can then copy a 3 or 4 drop, that's a real upgrade on your manadork, but I just don't really see the upside in terms of comboing.
@Lectrys - I maybe haven't been fully clear. If you have 1 forest when you start to combo, you return it to hand for scryb ranger to untap. Then you re-play that forest for the turn. I can honestly say I've never been caught without it. I can see the upside to podding a 1-drop into a 2-drop that can then copy a 3 or 4 drop, that's a real upgrade on your manadork, but I just don't really see the upside in terms of comboing.
I've very occasionally played that Forest as my land drop for the turn, then tried to combo off on Turn 4 on 3 lands (and 2 mana dorks).
That ability to use the same Forest twice is why I'm confident Magus of the Moon is a legitimate sideboard choice for this deck, but after playing versions of this deck so many times, I run into corner cases multiple times each.
let's say you have a one drop a two drop and opp has some GY hate ready, so no possible shenanigans with scryb into rallier. And also it seems easier to me to go 2 drop-> exarch, 1 drop -> image, copy exarch, copied exarch -> resto, resto-> kiki. Sure, it has some conditions, but what does not?
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Hello just dropping by to chime in some questions and some tech suggestions. To preface, I'd like to mention that I haven't played modern in a while but have been following the latest developments recently and got interested in this deck, hence have watched some people play it on Youtube.
1. Why do people play Bounding Krasis over Deceiver Exarch? In my mind, Deceiver Exarch has various advantages:
- Easier mana cost
- Can tap any permanent, so you can do tempo plays like tapping down lands to slow down the opponent, or tap down vital artifacts
- Has 4 toughness, hence has better survivability, particularly against bolt
The main advantage I can see for Bounding Krasis is that it has 3-power, but if we're aiming for infinite tokens with Kiki, the amount of power doesn't matter as long as it's more than zero. If we're looking at the beatdown backup plan I guess the 3 power helps to race, but the deck is already inherently capable of racing with creatures to beatdown by having lots of value creatures. The last case I can think of where the 3 power is an advantage is that it trades better, but even then Exarch having 4 toughness bounces better during combat, meaning that it survives better to get podded.
EDIT: I just realized why. Woodland Bellower can only tutor for green creatures. Still, with this in mind, how do you all think the advantages of Exarch weigh against Krasis for these reasons?
2. On the topic of whether to play Rhythm of the Wild or not, I've seen various players face a situation where if Vannifar had haste, they'd be able to immediately close out the game. In many of such cases, they also have a Chord of Calling in hand. One tech I'd be interested in trying is to cut one Rhythm for a Torch Courier, so that you can achieve the play pattern where you chord for X=1 on T3 for the Courier and T4 cast Vannifar and give her haste. This achieves the same game-winning haste-granting effect as Rhythm except for the uncounterability clause, but at least it's harder for your opponent to telegraph whether they will die to a Vannifar next turn or not, since you Chord in the Courier at their end step. What do you guys think?
Also not crazy about white!
EDIT: so I’ve been testing incorporating conscripts/bellower back in because I admit I havnt tested them since adding Pact/Servant, and I had a quick question. Am I right to understand that to go off from a single one drop and Vannifar, you need to go one drop>ranger>krasis>hippo>conscripts>bellower for krasis>krasis into hippo>hippo into Kiki, targeting bellower, grab krasis? Because that’s literally every untapped in the deck being cycled through. Am I correct when I say that if ANY of these untappers (9 total counting bellower) end up in hand, exiled, or the graveyard, you cannot actually combo from just a single one drop?
Conscripts-Bellower lists typically play 2 Kiki-Jiki in case one ends up in hand, but yes, if any of Scryb/3 Krasis/2 Hippocamp/Conscripts/Bellower end up in a bad spot, you cannot combo off from a lone 1-drop with the Temur chain. You can realistically cast one of the cheaper untappers (Scryb/Krasis/Hippocamp) during the combo turn, though, unless you used a Haste enabler on Vannifar.
Vendilion Clique is probably the better unwanted-combo-piece-tucker, as it also disrupts combo decks.
I’ve tested 3x cerulean wisps but didn’t really get enough games in to get a good read on it. With a mana dork in play, it’s virtually a zero mana cantrip to dig for Vannifar. When Vannifar is in play you simply pod into Kitchen Finks, use whisps to untap, and then go off from there. Obviously you have to have it in hand and there will be a nonzero amount of games where you have one creature in play and zero out of the nine cards you can’t draw in hand AND won’t have wisps. I just feel like the ability to combo being based on what’s left in your deck is severely limiting and if built in ways to work around that can be implemented it could allow us to shave some of those expensive and semi useless combo pieces. I think wisps has potential.
1 scryb
2 horse
1 conscripts
1 bellower
thats 5 cards and really the horse is the only creature that really doesnt do anything. IMO Temur is the combo shell, bant/4color is the midrange/toolbox and then there is whatever the tear drop/ ranger of eos version is trying to do. the more spells you put in the less consistent it will be for using vannifar.
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The beauty of the Temur Chain is that it not only allows you to combo off from Vannifar and a lone 1-drop, it also lets you combo off from Vannifar and a lone 2-6-drop (well, as long as the 6-drop is Bellower). The Sun Titan version of the chain cannot let you combo off from Vannifar and a lone 4-6-drop.
Yes, with my leaner-combo version, I've encountered the pain of being unable to combo off with Vannifar and 4-drops multiple times. I figured this was an acceptable price to pay, but apparently, the Temur Chain players don't think so.
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Lectrys, I won’t say that the price isn’t worth it but to find a way around it would be ideal! My list is hyper focused on getting Vannifar out and activating it ASAP trying to increase the consistency of it translating to a win seems more important. At what point does requiring two bodies to combo just seem like a better option than essentially doubling the number of untappers (for the record I think krasis is a pretty miserable card). At least for Temur, to win off one creature everything has to literally line up perfectly. I have to imagine just increasing the card quality and lowering the curve could lead to more wins than a more compact combo, but perhaps that’s pointless without adding white. Back to the drawing board, I suppose.
I went back to my original Kiki-Pod list, and a bunch of modern content from a few years ago, and noticed some widely used tech which people have either forgotten about or ignored. These ones stood out to me:
Staticaster I've seen in some recent lists but not all, and it seems like it should be ubiquitous? Redcap forms a 'pod chain' by itself and is actually a super powerful piece of removal if you're able to blink and sac it multiple times.
Body double I'm not too sure about but it enables some funny chains and saw minor play before.
Sower of temptation was a popular one. Steal a creature, pod it away. Super powerful effect and was an instrumental sideboard or maindeck card from the time.
Phantasmal image was the one everyone played though. Copies whatever you need copying to keep the chain going. Usually deceiver exarch but can also copy a large threat or utility creature such as reveillark.
Phantasmal Image - this was in the old lists to copy Deceiver, as you said. It was your pod target from a 1-drop. However, since we now have Scryb Ranger to enable a combo, I don't think Image is ever the correct POD target (or very rarely). As a result, the question is "do you want to naturally draw Image", and i think the answer is mainly no. I can see a few scenarios where it is a good POD target, but I'm not sure if there's enough.
Murderous Redcap - it does allow a combo, and blinking it is nice. But I think Glen Elendra is just better in almost all spots. Plus, both cards are pretty clunky when your against a linear deck.
Izzet Staticaster - it's a good card, but it just doesnt have many good MUs anymore. It was great when infect and affinity were everywhere, but that's just not the case anymore. Even lingering souls is at an all-time low. I had it in my SB for about 20 matches and it just wasn't ever that good... perhaps the mirror!
I've not tested the other 2 to be honest, but I do think we're already pretty heavy on 4-drops, with resto/hippo, vannifar and shalai all being pretty great cards to run.
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yeah that's basically my thinking too. Phantasmal image can pretend to be any part of a chain, or an opposing threat, or a repeat-effect if you really need to double up on your deputy of detention or something. Having access to that sort of utility was something that the older full-fat pod decks really liked (and it also was part of the pod chain, copying exarch, meaning in a pinch it can still be used the same way).
I'm gonna run one copy maindeck and see how I like it. Also makes impactful sideboard creatures potentially better too.
After having looked at a bunch of lists and watching loads of content, I'm forming the opinion that the temur-bant four colour version with deputy and other utility creatures seems to be the best early build of the deck. No doubt it'll evolve and I've already seen an 'angel pod' variant that's heavily in abzan with SIEGE RHINO (woo!) and all of the variants have a lot of game to them which speaks to the power of vannifar and the birthing pod 'effect'.
Question for you guys: seen quite a few people running Rhythm of the Wild and it seems like a trap to me. Apart from the amazing interaction with persist creatures I'm not sure i see the point. Sure, hasty uncounterable vannifar is nice, but you're messing up your curve, topdecks and all sorts to incorporate this enchantment. I'm really, honestly willing and ready to be proven wrong on this but it just seems like hype-driven wonky deckbuilding
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Yeah but I think you get what i mean when I offer the counterpoint to your anecdote there; that if your rationale for it maybe being maindeckable in modern is "because my three mana enchantment made my 3/3 into a 4/4" then... I dunno right? Seems awfully mediocre.
Like I said, I am interested in the interaction with persist creatures. Having an effective infinite loop there is great, and it's powerful, but looping Glen Elendra Archmage a bunch of times isn't necessarily a good enough reason to run a wonky enchantment.
It boils, I think, down to wanting a hasty vannifar. Which means we're worried about sweepers/lili/removal. But then if that's the case, we probably have better options on that front as well. Creatures such as selfless spirit who not only protect your whole team but are tutorable or chord-able, unlike running a three mana enchantment.
Super tricky. I can see the value there but if I'm introducing even the most remote possibility that I topdeck a couple rhythms when I need action, there better be a stonkingly good reason to be running them in modern. Out of the lists I've seen so far, the ones without rhythm have been the most consistent just on an anecdotal 'watching lots of content' level. Time and testing will be the judge of that though, of course.
Maybe if we ran a single viscera seer like melira pod in the past, I'd feel happier about the enchantment's inclusion, because right now it feels (and its definitely a feeling, I haven't been testing with rhythm myself) like the ends don't justify the means on this one.
I'll be following winning lists like a hawk. Obviously vannifar herself is powerful so we'll need to avoid drawing false conclusions but I'll look for trends and keep an eye on how the deck is evolving (I have a sneaking suspicion it'll go the way Birthing Pod did, which is drop the gimmicks and go for the most consistent builds and routes over time)
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Bellower-chain builds have neither the need nor the room for Phantasmal Image, as they can turn a 1-6-drop into the combo (well, as long as the 6-drop is Bellower and it already tutored out a Bounding Krasis).
How does the Image combo work? I assume it needs more than 1 creature to get started? I dont feel the need for image, but i haven't tested it.
I'm having the most success with Kurusu's build (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1667455#online). I've changed the odd card (don't own hierarchs, surgicals or horizon canopy, so i'm fully budget), and changed up the SB a little bit. The list is a lot better than it looks, and I think it's a good place to start. Double-spellskite has been really nice for what it's worth.
Occasionally, I end up with a start of Grove of the Burnwillows and a second land along the lines of Hallowed Fountain/Plains/Island/utility land. It's pretty easy to end up with only one Forest from there.
Yes, the Phantasmal Image chain requires 2 non-Vannifar creatures in order to work. The 2 1-drops version of the chain involves tutoring for Scryb Ranger, then Exarch, then Image copying Exarch, then Resto blinking real Exarch, then Kiki-Jiki. The 1-drop + 2-drop version of the chain lets you skip Scryb Ranger.
"Aut vincere aut mori"
I've very occasionally played that Forest as my land drop for the turn, then tried to combo off on Turn 4 on 3 lands (and 2 mana dorks).
That ability to use the same Forest twice is why I'm confident Magus of the Moon is a legitimate sideboard choice for this deck, but after playing versions of this deck so many times, I run into corner cases multiple times each.
"Aut vincere aut mori"
1. Why do people play Bounding Krasis over Deceiver Exarch? In my mind, Deceiver Exarch has various advantages:
- Easier mana cost
- Can tap any permanent, so you can do tempo plays like tapping down lands to slow down the opponent, or tap down vital artifacts
- Has 4 toughness, hence has better survivability, particularly against bolt
The main advantage I can see for Bounding Krasis is that it has 3-power, but if we're aiming for infinite tokens with Kiki, the amount of power doesn't matter as long as it's more than zero. If we're looking at the beatdown backup plan I guess the 3 power helps to race, but the deck is already inherently capable of racing with creatures to beatdown by having lots of value creatures. The last case I can think of where the 3 power is an advantage is that it trades better, but even then Exarch having 4 toughness bounces better during combat, meaning that it survives better to get podded.
EDIT: I just realized why. Woodland Bellower can only tutor for green creatures. Still, with this in mind, how do you all think the advantages of Exarch weigh against Krasis for these reasons?
2. On the topic of whether to play Rhythm of the Wild or not, I've seen various players face a situation where if Vannifar had haste, they'd be able to immediately close out the game. In many of such cases, they also have a Chord of Calling in hand. One tech I'd be interested in trying is to cut one Rhythm for a Torch Courier, so that you can achieve the play pattern where you chord for X=1 on T3 for the Courier and T4 cast Vannifar and give her haste. This achieves the same game-winning haste-granting effect as Rhythm except for the uncounterability clause, but at least it's harder for your opponent to telegraph whether they will die to a Vannifar next turn or not, since you Chord in the Courier at their end step. What do you guys think?