I pictured it to save time, but it was:
4 Serum visions
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Path to Exile
3 Fatal Push
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Lingering Souls
3 Kolaghan's Command
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Spell Queller
1 Geist of Saint Tract
1 Nahiri the Harbinger
2 Damnation
3 Gifts Ungiven
1 Elesh Norn
1 Unburial Rites
1 Tasigur
Had the opportunity to test my deck last weekend against Scapeshift, but was wondering what should I gift for? My opponent already had one Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle on the board with four mountains and one small creature. I gifted for Ghost Quarter, Fulminator Mage, Unburial Rites and Sun Titan. I don't know if I made the right choice. Should have I gifted for Iona, Shield of Emeria and Unburial Rites instead, calling for Green?
I ended up winning though, but took several turns still. Would really appreciate your insight on this
There is a Modern FNM this week, with a foil Liliana of the veil to win for the 1st. Might be useful for my deck one additional Liliana!
I pictured it to save time, but it was:
4 Serum visions
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Path to Exile
3 Fatal Push
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Lingering Souls
3 Kolaghan's Command
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Spell Queller
1 Geist of Saint Tract
1 Nahiri the Harbinger
2 Damnation
3 Gifts Ungiven
1 Elesh Norn
1 Unburial Rites
1 Tasigur
My deck is heavily black based, white being a splash color, when I played esper and 4c w/ green I ran the white based 3 different sweepers, in this list there is lots of spot removal, of different names, and I haven't missed the sweeper package. Souls e.e. and damnation can be a stall package
Went to a 58 man PPTQ this last weekend and made top 8 after 6 rounds! Ran the same list except 3/3 split of path and fatal push and replaced Terastodon with Liliana, the Last Hope because the disappearance of RG Tron in the meta.
2-1 Counters Company
Even with all of 1-for-1 removal, an uphill battle fighting all the value in the forms of kitchen finks, eternal witness, and collected company. Lost game 1 to company into finks vizier combo. Game 2, he chords for a magus of the moon which surprised me and would have locked me out of the game except I had a basic swamp i fetched for earlier. I kill it with a brutality. I land Liliana of the Last Hope that clears the board of small creatures and I continue spot removal on druid after devoted druid until gifts for Elesh Norn to lock the opponent out. Game 3 was a grindfest after ripping chord and company from his hand with discard. He put on pressure with eternal witness and seer until flaying tendrils. After scrying 2, he played witness getting back witness getting back seer. One damnation later, we went to topdeck mode where eventually I landed a flayer which dug me into enough removal to close the game.
In- Flaying tendrils, damnation, liliana of the last hope, 2x collective brutality
Out- 2x Liliana of the Veil, Iona, 2x lingering souls
2-1 Counters Company
What luck! Braving into another tough match, I manage to catch him off guard with gifts into Elesh Norn. Game 2, I land a Liliana of the Last Hope that pinged small creatures each turn but he catches me off guard when he chords for spell queller to exile gifts. I swiftly lose to beats in the air. Counters company seems to be getting crafty with all the toolbox creatures. Game 3, we grind each other out with value and I manage to win the board with goyf and flayer which dug deep into the deck for all the removal spell I needed.
Same SB as previous. Very impressed with Liliana of the Last Hope in the last two matches and happy about the change.
1-1-1 UW Control
Game 1 I lose to the grind game when he removes and counters all my relevant threats and beats me down with celestial. He was running the wall of omens, finks, spell quellers, and restoration angels which meant I could not take out all my spot removals for Game 2. Game 2, I strip his hand of cards with raven's crime life from the loam combo that I got from gifts and land a liliana that kept ticking up. Game 3, he lands rest in peace and we go to time and draw. Nothing special report other than it was the longest games.
In- Life from the loam, raven's crime, 2x collective brutality, fulminator mages, kitchen finks
Out- 2x abrupt decay, 2x path to exile, Elesh Norn, goyf
Not sure if I should keep in abrupt decays for spell quellers and possible cages/RIP. removed one goyf for fulminator because even if it eats a removal, it can remove a land and I expected grave hate which makes goyf a 0/1.
1-2 Slivers
First time facing slivers. Game 1, I am confident I can win because I gifts for Elesh Norn to wipe his board but it is met with double dismember which is probably the only removal they run. Very frustrating. I then lose to more slivers flooding the board that I cannot remove because of regen and +2 mana to cast cards that targets slivers clause. Game 2, I remove every sliver I see until I gifts for Elesh Norn again. He does not have double dismember again and loses to Elesh Norn and souls beat. Game 3, I trade removal spells for slivers and I stabilize with damnation and collective brutality in hand. However, he lands two mutavaults that I cannot find instant speed kill spells to remove. I take 12+ damage to them and I die.
In- 2x collective brutality, damnation, flaying tendrils, liliana of the last hope
Out- Iona, 2x lingering souls, eternal witness, liliana of the veil
2-1 UW Control
Another UW control. Back and forth trading resources while I try to strip counters so I can resolve gifts into Iona. He plays 4 spreading seas which locks me out of my colors and neuters manlands. I never get to resolve gifts but lingering souls eventually seals the deal. Game 2, we have a planeswalker war with him with 3-mana gideon that made my kitchen finks obsolete, 4-mana jace that made my lingering souls obsolete, and 6 mana elspeth that poops out tokens while I land both lilianas to deal with the soldier tokens. 3 turns later, we both realize that the planeswalker rule change is not in effect until ixalan commes out. Judge comes over and gives me a warning and I sac my liliana of the veil. He kills my lili LH and supreme verdicts the board. I find gifts and gift for eternal witness, maelstrom pulse, abrupt decay, and gifts. Gifts and pulse go to graveyard. I eternal witness into pulse elspeth and abrupt decay the gideon. He kills my witness, I push and ghost quarter his last two celestial collonades. Eventually, I end up with 9 lands (3 of them are spreading sea-ed at this point) and I hardcast iona and call white. I play lingering souls and have him on a clock when he topdecks a snapcaster and snap-cryptic EoT to swing in with the last 2 dmg with snapcaster. We end game 2 with 5 minutes remaining on the clock. He is 2-2 and I am 2-1-1 so he concedes.
Same SB as above except sided out 2 IoK instead of Abrupts in anticipation for grave hate and 3-mana Gideon Game 3.
2-0 Esper Goryo Vengence
Esper deck running jace, vryn's prodigy, goryo vengence, and obzedat that also runs sword of the meek thopter foundry combo. Game 1, he goryo jace and activates him to flip in order to flashback goryo to bring back obzedat. In response to jace activation, I push him. We trade more resources until I safely land a lili which ticks up and ults. I split his 6 lands into 2 piles and he dies soon thereafter. Game 2, we grind each other out with kill spells and nothing survives on the board. He has a shambling vent that begins chipping at my life. I find a gifts but hold onto it until I draw a collective brutality. I cast brutality for discard mode and strips him of dispel and mainphase cast gifts for iona unburial. He draws, plays a land, and attacks me to 2 life. I unburial rites Iona and call white. However, I cannot attack with iona because of shambling vents. We draw go for the next couple of turns. He cannot cast lingering souls or obzedat but he can goryo obzedat in the grave or draw a collective brutality to drain me. I sit on a hand of extirpate and abrupt decay until I draw into a brutality. I drain him for 2 and swing for game.
Top 8
1-2 Abzan
This is supposed to be a good matchup for gifts but luck unfortunately is a part of magic. Game 1, I kill 3 dark confidants in a row but he lands a ooze afterwards which I could not find an answer. He eats 20 cards from all graveyards and becomes a 10/10 and it keeps swinging at me. I throw goyfs, oozes, flayers, and souls in front of it and eventually die to a single creature without seeing gifts or removal. Game 2, I play gifts into iona, call white, and swing twice to end the game while playing souls to avoid liliana edict. Game 3, he opens up with turn 1 cage, turn 2 nihil spellbomb and another cage. Ooze lands soon thereafter along with three manlands. I try to remove his threats but like game 1, I could not find gifts nor removal. My goyfs are 0/1s and lingering souls become half of a card.
In- Damnation, Kitchen Finks, 2x fulminator mages, celestial purge, liliana of the last hope
Out- 3x Inquisition, 2x Thoughtseize, collective brutality
It was strange that the good matchups went badly and bad matchups went well but overall, very happy with the performance and I think I fine tuned the deck well to the expected meta. 3/3 split of path and push was better for this meta with smaller critters than 4/2 that I was running previously to combat eldrazi trons. I wish graveyard hate was less ubiquitous because it does hurt our strongest strategies but gifts still acts as "put two cards with different names into our hand" and doesn't cripple it completely.
Congratulations on your results Drayton! Glad to see 4C Gifts is still pulling good results! Thanks for the report too.
Seems Grim Flayerand Liliana, the Last Hope were very helpful. How many Liliana, the last hope did you play?
I played one in the sideboard but I can see how it may even be good as a one-of in the MB alongside Liliana of the Veil (perhaps as a 4-1 or 3-1 split).
Grim flayer has been great, especially when there was a RIP or other graveyard hate on the board that made goyfs 0/1s. It still hits for 2 and allows for card selection.
As you can see, I put 9 fetch lands, 1 Ravland of each pair of colors, 1 ghost quarter, 1 Urborg, and one basic of each. Up to now, I haven't had any problems with my mana base when playing, though I guess it could be a bit better with more copies of Verdant Catacombs.
I also wish I could have a third Liliana of the Veil, but that works for now. Also I was thinking of removing Eternal Witness for a fourth Gifts Ungiven. I've never really got value out of it, since I can mostly get sorceries/instants back with baby Jace, and Sun Titan get the other permanents from the graveyard.
Overall I really enjoy playing that deck, and will certainly bring it to my next FNM. However it gets tough against fast match-ups, like burn, but if the game is getting long, we get so much value from our cards, it's insane!
Also, looking at the cards from Ixalan, what do you guys think of Search for Azcanta // Azcanta, the sunken Ruin as a 1-of. It seems quite powerful in our deck. Filtering our draws, getting value from our graveyard (flashbacks, delirium), also when it transforms, we get to dig 4 on top of our deck at instant speed! I will definitely try to find one space for it. What's your opinion about that card?
Hey everyone, I'm exploring this deck, particularly the Esper variant presented by Jeff Hoogland linky: http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/esper_goryo_gifts_with_jeff_ho.html - whilst I know Jeff didn't get very far with it, it still seems like a solid variant of the deck with a lot of interaction against the present metagame. I am wondering what people's thoughts are on this deck and where they see Gifts in general at the moment? I've not run into a list for a long time nor seen one turn up in a tournament, but I also confess to not follow the tournament scene too closely.
Key Points:
1) You often want to use Vendiion clique to hit yourself to put Iona back into your deck. Sometimes you want to hit yourself regardless to cycle a useless card to dig for gifts
2) The Worm Harvest in the main is something you can gifts for. 3 lands + Worm Harvest to flood the board against shard control decks (Abzan, Jeskai) etc decks with muti color removal. It also gives you a second "bullet" in the tank in case unburial + fatty goes wrong
3) Dragonlord Silumgar is very good at stealing Karn, Liliana etc (the gifts deck naturally has trouble dealing with planeswalkers). Your gameplan against tron is to try to steal their karn and kill them with their karn
4) Eternal Scourge in the sideboard is used to mess with people who bring in rest in peace against you. (You can tutor for it and its pretty much a 3/3 cannot be removed creature)
Its a very tricky list, but if you have any questions, please ask.
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I'm confused by a few things on your list. For one I notice you're kinda lacking in options for a non-combo gifts package. Why not vary your removal suite so you can Gifts for a sweeper/spot removal/counterspell/catch-all removal?
Like throw one of those Slaughter Pacts and maybe a Dismember in the main. And why run Radiant Flames over better sweepers like verdict wrath or damnation? (Or especially one of each so you can gifts for them?)
I think the rest of your sideboard could use some spicing up too like -1 Wear/Tear +1 Disenchant, throwing in negate and countersquall into your countermagic suite, adding something like Detention Sphere.
The whole point of gifts is that you get to run a toolbox deck, where they're left with no good choices when they choose which cards you get. I feel like you aren't taking full advantage of a really powerful card
Also I think you're running a pretty high count of creatures that will suffer under the legend rule (4 JVP 3 VClique)
I'm confused by a few things on your list. For one I notice you're kinda lacking in options for a non-combo gifts package. Why not vary your removal suite so you can Gifts for a sweeper/spot removal/counterspell/catch-all removal?
Like throw one of those Slaughter Pacts and maybe a Dismember in the main. And why run Radiant Flames over better sweepers like verdict wrath or damnation? (Or especially one of each so you can gifts for them?)
I think the rest of your sideboard could use some spicing up too like -1 Wear/Tear +1 Disenchant, throwing in negate and countersquall into your countermagic suite, adding something like Detention Sphere.
The whole point of gifts is that you get to run a toolbox deck, where they're left with no good choices when they choose which cards you get. I feel like you aren't taking full advantage of a really powerful card
Also I think you're running a pretty high count of creatures that will suffer under the legend rule (4 JVP 3 VClique)
- You can use the first clique to hit yourself to remove extra cliques. Similarly, You can use Jace VP to lot away extra Jace. (4 JVP and 3 Cliques are high, but they are extremely good.) I could definitely see an argument to go down 1 Vendilion Clique, but I personally really like the interaction of clique hit yourself to put Iona back into the deck draw a card. I don;t think its wrong to go to 3 or even 2 Jace. But I find the gifts archetype really lacks good turn 2 plays and Jace VP's looting is extremely important to dig. (your mainboard removal is often extremely dead against say ad nauseam)
- Slaughter Pact's original purpose was to deal with the Titanshift matchup. The turn you want to gifts is also the turn they cast their titan. You can usually gifts, combo (name green) then slaughter pact the titan). Slaughter Pact is also extremely good against Spell Queller and eldrazi decks.
- The short answer for radiant flames is: its just a metagame call. I want to turn 3 radiant flames turn 4 gifts. My white mana is also a bit tighter.
- I'm not a big fan of this Gifts as a tutor card. I find gifts is just so much more powerful as a one card combo kill. (Or post board if they have gravehate, you grab 4 lands to hard cast grave titan/ Elspeth Sun's Champion post board) I find this tutor of diversifying your answer is often way too slow. (I also find that if you are facing Jund and you grab 4 good cards, e.g k command, liliana, grave titan and elspeth, your top deck is going to be extremely bad as you're grabbing too many of your good cards are dumping them into your graveyard) If you use gifts post board cast a draw card spell (if they grave hate you) to hard cast 6 drops, you are "improving" your top decks by removing lands).
- Wear//Tear I find is alot better than disenchant. 1 mana destroy target enchantment is extremely relevant against leyline/ edilion and blood moon.
- I could definitely see an argument to changing the countermagic suite. I personally don't know if dispel or countersquall is correct. I could see going to 1 celesnial purge for a 3rd counterspuall.
Side Notes: You could make the case the grindy cards could be 2 Elspeths and 1 grave titan instead of Eternal Scourge + 2 grave titans. (I have 1 eternal scourge because my local has alot of Rest in Peace + UWx control decks, which eternal scourges just crushes)
- If I was playing PPTQ or larger events, I would swap the disdainful strokes for nihil spellbombs. Its just in my local meta, people don't want to play non-interactive decks + dredge too much weeklys (too repetitive) and all want to hard cast extremely expensive cards.
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Absolutely love your list. I think Grim Flayer is easily the best choice for a steady beater. He fuels our plans and, as mentioned, still provides use if facing graveyard hate. How are you liking Sun Titan? It's always been a staple for me, even over Grave Titan. His interactions with LOTV, Eternal Witness, detention sphere, and even JVP are insanely significant.
Do you ever feel yourself lacking in turn-1 discard effects? What do you find yourself using JVP to recast mostly, besides gifts?
Absolutely love your list. I think Grim Flayer is easily the best choice for a steady beater. He fuels our plans and, as mentioned, still provides use if facing graveyard hate. How are you liking Sun Titan? It's always been a staple for me, even over Grave Titan. His interactions with LOTV, Eternal Witness, detention sphere, and even JVP are insanely significant.
Do you ever feel yourself lacking in turn-1 discard effects? What do you find yourself using JVP to recast mostly, besides gifts?
- I don't want to rely on the graveyard post board. The whole point of these Grave Titan + Elspeth is to overpower people who overside bring in grave hate. (otherwise we would be killing them with gifts combo)
- I find 7 discards (4 inqusitions + 3 brutalities) is already high for a Black based midrange deck. I could entertain 2 duress post board as you care alot more cards they board in (i.e. relic, surgical dispel hate cards)
- I don't like Grim Flayer. I find a 2/2 or 4/4 just doesn't matchup well against a format full of goyfs, knights, bolts and pushes. I'm playing 2 tasigurs in the main partly because I really like the interaction of Tasigur delve away my graveyard to let Jace continue to loot.
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I should have used the quote function instead of the reply function. I was not commenting or critiquing your list, BReathe1234. My reply was directed at FlyingDeer for this post:
As you can see, I put 9 fetch lands, 1 Ravland of each pair of colors, 1 ghost quarter, 1 Urborg, and one basic of each. Up to now, I haven't had any problems with my mana base when playing, though I guess it could be a bit better with more copies of Verdant Catacombs.
I also wish I could have a third Liliana of the Veil, but that works for now. Also I was thinking of removing Eternal Witness for a fourth Gifts Ungiven. I've never really got value out of it, since I can mostly get sorceries/instants back with baby Jace, and Sun Titan get the other permanents from the graveyard.
Overall I really enjoy playing that deck, and will certainly bring it to my next FNM. However it gets tough against fast match-ups, like burn, but if the game is getting long, we get so much value from our cards, it's insane!
Also, looking at the cards from Ixalan, what do you guys think of Search for Azcanta // Azcanta, the sunken Ruin as a 1-of. It seems quite powerful in our deck. Filtering our draws, getting value from our graveyard (flashbacks, delirium), also when it transforms, we get to dig 4 on top of our deck at instant speed! I will definitely try to find one space for it. What's your opinion about that card?
Absolutely love your list. I think Grim Flayer is easily the best choice for a steady beater. He fuels our plans and, as mentioned, still provides use if facing graveyard hate. How are you liking Sun Titan? It's always been a staple for me, even over Grave Titan. His interactions with LOTV, Eternal Witness, detention sphere, and even JVP are insanely significant.
Do you ever feel yourself lacking in turn-1 discard effects? What do you find yourself using JVP to recast mostly, besides gifts?
Thanks FuneralofGod. I love Grim Flayer. They put early pressure on the opponent, allow us to dig into our library for specific cards and also help us feed our graveyard with cards we don't want in our hands (Iona, Shield of Emeria, Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite,Unburial Rites, Lingering Souls among others). It never disappoints me and I think I will stay with 3 copies.
Regarding Sun Titan, I really like the card, and it has been useful in some particular game. It gets back both Lilianas, baby Jace, Grim Flayer, Snapcaster Mage, Fetches and Ghost Quarter which is very useful against some matchups (thinking of Tron and Valakut)). Even post-board it helps getting back Detention Sphere or Fulminator Mage. The only problem with it is that I rarely get to hardcast it, and usually when I gift for Unburial Rites I prefer to get the Iona or Elesh Norn package. I think Sun Titan competes with Tasigur, the Golden Fang, Tasigur being easier to cast. But overall I enjoy playing with it. I removed Eternal Witness as I think Sun Titan, baby Jace and Snapcaster Mage are enough to get back any cards from our graveyard.
Mostly with Jace, I mostly use it to re-cast removal spells, but it depends of the situation. Collective Brutality is probably one of the cards I target most.
Sure sometimes I wish I had more discard spells so I get at least one in my opening hand, but overall 5 discard spells at 1cmc and 2 at 2cmc are enough, since we can re-use them later with Snap and Jace.
Overall I'm pretty happy with my deck (what deck allows you to play Iona, baby Jace, and Grim Flayer in the same shell???), though I'm sure it could be improved. (perhaps one more LOFTV, a Tasigur, etc.)
I made a few changes to my previous list. I post it here below:
@Breathe1234 Your list is interesting. Since you're splashing red, have you considered playing Lightning Bolt? Also do you think Snapcaster Mage could get a spot in your list?
Have you guys check some of the new cards from Rivals of Ixalan? Up to now two cards got my attention World Shaper and Journey to Eternity//Atzal, Cave of Eternity. World Shaper digs our library and can help us ramp once it dies since our graveyard is very often filled with lands. This might help us hardcast high costed spells (Iona, Sun titan or Elesh Norn). And Journey to Eternity once flipped is like our Unburial Rites, allowing us to recast Iona or Elesh indefinitely from our graveyard. What's more, it's an enchantment, which can help Grim Flayer's delirium once in the grave. Would be very interesting to get your opinions on the upcoming cards!
@Breathe1234 Your list is interesting. Since you're splashing red, have you considered playing Lightning Bolt? Also do you think Snapcaster Mage could get a spot in your list?
- Push is just better, I'm more interested in control and answering than burning people out. The reach is never relevant.
- I cut snapcaster mage. I'm just not impressed by snapcaster mage in the gifts archetype. I find for snapcaster to be good in a deck, you need to have a combination of Instant Draw spells, counterspells, removal. The gifts archtype only have 1 of the three. Similarly, people bring in way too much grave hate for us. Snapcaster mage gets alot worse post board. I prefer Liliana or Taisgur in snapcaster's slots
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I like flayer too, though they can be pretty bad.
I've found I often struggled to get delirium quickly enough, which just has him sitting on board as a 2/2 unable to attack, applying no pressure.
With delirium active and when he's able to attack he's gas though.
Been testing my 2 drop creature slot a lot recently, had 4x flayer 2x scooze before but having so many 2/2s was really awkward.
Testing 2x flayer 4x goyf currently and so far it feels good.
@theflyingdeer Your list is interesting, you aren't running much green, how tempted are you just to go straight esper?
As for search for azcanta I've been meaning to test it, it seems like an easy include. Helps fill the gy and digs for spells, which we often run many of. If anyone is testing it I'd be really interested in how it played.
Here's my current list that I'm about to go into the top 4 of a local league with.
Pretty sure I'm up against eldrazi tron which I have no experience playing against and which seems like a pretty bad matchup. Any gameplay and sideboarding advice?
4 Serum visions
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Path to Exile
3 Fatal Push
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Lingering Souls
3 Kolaghan's Command
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Spell Queller
1 Geist of Saint Tract
1 Nahiri the Harbinger
2 Damnation
3 Gifts Ungiven
1 Elesh Norn
1 Unburial Rites
1 Tasigur
2 Swamp
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Watery Grave
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Steam Vents
1 Godless Shrine
1 Blood Crypt
Had the opportunity to test my deck last weekend against Scapeshift, but was wondering what should I gift for? My opponent already had one Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle on the board with four mountains and one small creature. I gifted for Ghost Quarter, Fulminator Mage, Unburial Rites and Sun Titan. I don't know if I made the right choice. Should have I gifted for Iona, Shield of Emeria and Unburial Rites instead, calling for Green?
I ended up winning though, but took several turns still. Would really appreciate your insight on this
There is a Modern FNM this week, with a foil Liliana of the veil to win for the 1st. Might be useful for my deck one additional Liliana!
Double Damnation strikes me as somewhat strange as it doesn't allow you to play Gifts for a sweeper package. Why not run a single Wrath instead?
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
2-1 Counters Company
Even with all of 1-for-1 removal, an uphill battle fighting all the value in the forms of kitchen finks, eternal witness, and collected company. Lost game 1 to company into finks vizier combo. Game 2, he chords for a magus of the moon which surprised me and would have locked me out of the game except I had a basic swamp i fetched for earlier. I kill it with a brutality. I land Liliana of the Last Hope that clears the board of small creatures and I continue spot removal on druid after devoted druid until gifts for Elesh Norn to lock the opponent out. Game 3 was a grindfest after ripping chord and company from his hand with discard. He put on pressure with eternal witness and seer until flaying tendrils. After scrying 2, he played witness getting back witness getting back seer. One damnation later, we went to topdeck mode where eventually I landed a flayer which dug me into enough removal to close the game.
In- Flaying tendrils, damnation, liliana of the last hope, 2x collective brutality
Out- 2x Liliana of the Veil, Iona, 2x lingering souls
2-1 Counters Company
What luck! Braving into another tough match, I manage to catch him off guard with gifts into Elesh Norn. Game 2, I land a Liliana of the Last Hope that pinged small creatures each turn but he catches me off guard when he chords for spell queller to exile gifts. I swiftly lose to beats in the air. Counters company seems to be getting crafty with all the toolbox creatures. Game 3, we grind each other out with value and I manage to win the board with goyf and flayer which dug deep into the deck for all the removal spell I needed.
Same SB as previous. Very impressed with Liliana of the Last Hope in the last two matches and happy about the change.
1-1-1 UW Control
Game 1 I lose to the grind game when he removes and counters all my relevant threats and beats me down with celestial. He was running the wall of omens, finks, spell quellers, and restoration angels which meant I could not take out all my spot removals for Game 2. Game 2, I strip his hand of cards with raven's crime life from the loam combo that I got from gifts and land a liliana that kept ticking up. Game 3, he lands rest in peace and we go to time and draw. Nothing special report other than it was the longest games.
In- Life from the loam, raven's crime, 2x collective brutality, fulminator mages, kitchen finks
Out- 2x abrupt decay, 2x path to exile, Elesh Norn, goyf
Not sure if I should keep in abrupt decays for spell quellers and possible cages/RIP. removed one goyf for fulminator because even if it eats a removal, it can remove a land and I expected grave hate which makes goyf a 0/1.
1-2 Slivers
First time facing slivers. Game 1, I am confident I can win because I gifts for Elesh Norn to wipe his board but it is met with double dismember which is probably the only removal they run. Very frustrating. I then lose to more slivers flooding the board that I cannot remove because of regen and +2 mana to cast cards that targets slivers clause. Game 2, I remove every sliver I see until I gifts for Elesh Norn again. He does not have double dismember again and loses to Elesh Norn and souls beat. Game 3, I trade removal spells for slivers and I stabilize with damnation and collective brutality in hand. However, he lands two mutavaults that I cannot find instant speed kill spells to remove. I take 12+ damage to them and I die.
In- 2x collective brutality, damnation, flaying tendrils, liliana of the last hope
Out- Iona, 2x lingering souls, eternal witness, liliana of the veil
2-1 UW Control
Another UW control. Back and forth trading resources while I try to strip counters so I can resolve gifts into Iona. He plays 4 spreading seas which locks me out of my colors and neuters manlands. I never get to resolve gifts but lingering souls eventually seals the deal. Game 2, we have a planeswalker war with him with 3-mana gideon that made my kitchen finks obsolete, 4-mana jace that made my lingering souls obsolete, and 6 mana elspeth that poops out tokens while I land both lilianas to deal with the soldier tokens. 3 turns later, we both realize that the planeswalker rule change is not in effect until ixalan commes out. Judge comes over and gives me a warning and I sac my liliana of the veil. He kills my lili LH and supreme verdicts the board. I find gifts and gift for eternal witness, maelstrom pulse, abrupt decay, and gifts. Gifts and pulse go to graveyard. I eternal witness into pulse elspeth and abrupt decay the gideon. He kills my witness, I push and ghost quarter his last two celestial collonades. Eventually, I end up with 9 lands (3 of them are spreading sea-ed at this point) and I hardcast iona and call white. I play lingering souls and have him on a clock when he topdecks a snapcaster and snap-cryptic EoT to swing in with the last 2 dmg with snapcaster. We end game 2 with 5 minutes remaining on the clock. He is 2-2 and I am 2-1-1 so he concedes.
Same SB as above except sided out 2 IoK instead of Abrupts in anticipation for grave hate and 3-mana Gideon Game 3.
2-0 Esper Goryo Vengence
Esper deck running jace, vryn's prodigy, goryo vengence, and obzedat that also runs sword of the meek thopter foundry combo. Game 1, he goryo jace and activates him to flip in order to flashback goryo to bring back obzedat. In response to jace activation, I push him. We trade more resources until I safely land a lili which ticks up and ults. I split his 6 lands into 2 piles and he dies soon thereafter. Game 2, we grind each other out with kill spells and nothing survives on the board. He has a shambling vent that begins chipping at my life. I find a gifts but hold onto it until I draw a collective brutality. I cast brutality for discard mode and strips him of dispel and mainphase cast gifts for iona unburial. He draws, plays a land, and attacks me to 2 life. I unburial rites Iona and call white. However, I cannot attack with iona because of shambling vents. We draw go for the next couple of turns. He cannot cast lingering souls or obzedat but he can goryo obzedat in the grave or draw a collective brutality to drain me. I sit on a hand of extirpate and abrupt decay until I draw into a brutality. I drain him for 2 and swing for game.
In- Extirpate, Surgical Extraction, 2x Collective Brutality, Kitchen Finks
Out- Elesh Norn, 2x Fatal Push, goyf, inquisition
Made top 8 with 4-1-1
Top 8
1-2 Abzan
This is supposed to be a good matchup for gifts but luck unfortunately is a part of magic. Game 1, I kill 3 dark confidants in a row but he lands a ooze afterwards which I could not find an answer. He eats 20 cards from all graveyards and becomes a 10/10 and it keeps swinging at me. I throw goyfs, oozes, flayers, and souls in front of it and eventually die to a single creature without seeing gifts or removal. Game 2, I play gifts into iona, call white, and swing twice to end the game while playing souls to avoid liliana edict. Game 3, he opens up with turn 1 cage, turn 2 nihil spellbomb and another cage. Ooze lands soon thereafter along with three manlands. I try to remove his threats but like game 1, I could not find gifts nor removal. My goyfs are 0/1s and lingering souls become half of a card.
In- Damnation, Kitchen Finks, 2x fulminator mages, celestial purge, liliana of the last hope
Out- 3x Inquisition, 2x Thoughtseize, collective brutality
It was strange that the good matchups went badly and bad matchups went well but overall, very happy with the performance and I think I fine tuned the deck well to the expected meta. 3/3 split of path and push was better for this meta with smaller critters than 4/2 that I was running previously to combat eldrazi trons. I wish graveyard hate was less ubiquitous because it does hurt our strongest strategies but gifts still acts as "put two cards with different names into our hand" and doesn't cripple it completely.
Seems Grim Flayerand Liliana, the Last Hope were very helpful. How many Liliana, the last hope did you play?
Grim flayer has been great, especially when there was a RIP or other graveyard hate on the board that made goyfs 0/1s. It still hits for 2 and allows for card selection.
I finally got some of the missing cards to improve my deck, thanks to your feedback Drayton. So after some thoughts, I came up with the following:
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
1 Collective Brutality
3 Lingering Souls
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Unburial Rites
(10) Instant
3 Gifts Ungiven
2 Path to exile
3 Fatal push
2 Abrupt Decay
(1) Enchantment
1 Detention Sphere
(3) Planeswalker
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
3 Grim Flayer
3 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Eternal Witness
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Sun Titan
(24) Lands
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Blooming Marsh
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Shambling Vent
1 Marsh Flats
1 Godless Shrine
1 Flooded Strand
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Polluted Delta
1 Watery Grave
1 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Windswept Heath
1 Temple Garden
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Breeding Pool
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
As you can see, I put 9 fetch lands, 1 Ravland of each pair of colors, 1 ghost quarter, 1 Urborg, and one basic of each. Up to now, I haven't had any problems with my mana base when playing, though I guess it could be a bit better with more copies of Verdant Catacombs.
I also wish I could have a third Liliana of the Veil, but that works for now. Also I was thinking of removing Eternal Witness for a fourth Gifts Ungiven. I've never really got value out of it, since I can mostly get sorceries/instants back with baby Jace, and Sun Titan get the other permanents from the graveyard.
Regarding the sideboard, I came up with this:
1 Dispel
1 Raven's Crime
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Extirpate
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Countersquall
2 Stony Silence
1 Collective Brutality
1 Life from the Loam
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Damnation
1 Flaying Tendrils
1 Terastodon
Overall I really enjoy playing that deck, and will certainly bring it to my next FNM. However it gets tough against fast match-ups, like burn, but if the game is getting long, we get so much value from our cards, it's insane!
Also, looking at the cards from Ixalan, what do you guys think of Search for Azcanta // Azcanta, the sunken Ruin as a 1-of. It seems quite powerful in our deck. Filtering our draws, getting value from our graveyard (flashbacks, delirium), also when it transforms, we get to dig 4 on top of our deck at instant speed! I will definitely try to find one space for it. What's your opinion about that card?
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
I'll post my list for you. It's a very unusual variant compared to other lists on this post but here it is:
Dark Jeskai Gifts:
24 Lands
========
4 => Polluted Delta
4 => Flooded Strand
2 => Marsh Flats
1 => Hallowed Fountain
1 => Godless Shrine
1 => Watery Grave
1 => Blood Crypt
1 => Steam Vents
1 => Island
1 => Swamp
1 => Plains
3 => Darkslick Shores
1 => Isolated Chapel
1 => Drowned Catacombs
1 => Glacial Fortress
12 Creatures
===========
1 => Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 => Dragon Lord Silumgar
1 => Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
3 => Vendilion Clique
4 => Jace, Vyrn's Prodigy
2 => Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Planeswalkers
===============
2 => Liliana of the Veil
22 Instant/ Sorcery
===================
4 => Inqusition of Kozelick
3 => Collective Brutality
3 => Fatal Push
3 => Path to Exile
3 => Kolumgar's Command
4 => Gifts Ungiven
1 => Unburial Rites
1 => Worm Harvest
15 Sideboard
============
2 => Radiant Flames
2 => Grave Titan
2 => Wear // Tear
2 => Slaughter Pact
2 => Disdainful Stroke
2 => Dispel
2 => Celesnial Purge
1 => Eternal Scourge
Key Points:
1) You often want to use Vendiion clique to hit yourself to put Iona back into your deck. Sometimes you want to hit yourself regardless to cycle a useless card to dig for gifts
2) The Worm Harvest in the main is something you can gifts for. 3 lands + Worm Harvest to flood the board against shard control decks (Abzan, Jeskai) etc decks with muti color removal. It also gives you a second "bullet" in the tank in case unburial + fatty goes wrong
3) Dragonlord Silumgar is very good at stealing Karn, Liliana etc (the gifts deck naturally has trouble dealing with planeswalkers). Your gameplan against tron is to try to steal their karn and kill them with their karn
4) Eternal Scourge in the sideboard is used to mess with people who bring in rest in peace against you. (You can tutor for it and its pretty much a 3/3 cannot be removed creature)
Its a very tricky list, but if you have any questions, please ask.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Like throw one of those Slaughter Pacts and maybe a Dismember in the main. And why run Radiant Flames over better sweepers like verdict wrath or damnation? (Or especially one of each so you can gifts for them?)
I think the rest of your sideboard could use some spicing up too like -1 Wear/Tear +1 Disenchant, throwing in negate and countersquall into your countermagic suite, adding something like Detention Sphere.
The whole point of gifts is that you get to run a toolbox deck, where they're left with no good choices when they choose which cards you get. I feel like you aren't taking full advantage of a really powerful card
Also I think you're running a pretty high count of creatures that will suffer under the legend rule (4 JVP 3 VClique)
- You can use the first clique to hit yourself to remove extra cliques. Similarly, You can use Jace VP to lot away extra Jace. (4 JVP and 3 Cliques are high, but they are extremely good.) I could definitely see an argument to go down 1 Vendilion Clique, but I personally really like the interaction of clique hit yourself to put Iona back into the deck draw a card. I don;t think its wrong to go to 3 or even 2 Jace. But I find the gifts archetype really lacks good turn 2 plays and Jace VP's looting is extremely important to dig. (your mainboard removal is often extremely dead against say ad nauseam)
- Slaughter Pact's original purpose was to deal with the Titanshift matchup. The turn you want to gifts is also the turn they cast their titan. You can usually gifts, combo (name green) then slaughter pact the titan). Slaughter Pact is also extremely good against Spell Queller and eldrazi decks.
- The short answer for radiant flames is: its just a metagame call. I want to turn 3 radiant flames turn 4 gifts. My white mana is also a bit tighter.
- I'm not a big fan of this Gifts as a tutor card. I find gifts is just so much more powerful as a one card combo kill. (Or post board if they have gravehate, you grab 4 lands to hard cast grave titan/ Elspeth Sun's Champion post board) I find this tutor of diversifying your answer is often way too slow. (I also find that if you are facing Jund and you grab 4 good cards, e.g k command, liliana, grave titan and elspeth, your top deck is going to be extremely bad as you're grabbing too many of your good cards are dumping them into your graveyard) If you use gifts post board cast a draw card spell (if they grave hate you) to hard cast 6 drops, you are "improving" your top decks by removing lands).
- Wear//Tear I find is alot better than disenchant. 1 mana destroy target enchantment is extremely relevant against leyline/ edilion and blood moon.
- I could definitely see an argument to changing the countermagic suite. I personally don't know if dispel or countersquall is correct. I could see going to 1 celesnial purge for a 3rd counterspuall.
Side Notes: You could make the case the grindy cards could be 2 Elspeths and 1 grave titan instead of Eternal Scourge + 2 grave titans. (I have 1 eternal scourge because my local has alot of Rest in Peace + UWx control decks, which eternal scourges just crushes)
- If I was playing PPTQ or larger events, I would swap the disdainful strokes for nihil spellbombs. Its just in my local meta, people don't want to play non-interactive decks + dredge too much weeklys (too repetitive) and all want to hard cast extremely expensive cards.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Do you ever feel yourself lacking in turn-1 discard effects? What do you find yourself using JVP to recast mostly, besides gifts?
Draft My Cube!
- I don't want to rely on the graveyard post board. The whole point of these Grave Titan + Elspeth is to overpower people who overside bring in grave hate. (otherwise we would be killing them with gifts combo)
- I find 7 discards (4 inqusitions + 3 brutalities) is already high for a Black based midrange deck. I could entertain 2 duress post board as you care alot more cards they board in (i.e. relic, surgical dispel hate cards)
- I don't like Grim Flayer. I find a 2/2 or 4/4 just doesn't matchup well against a format full of goyfs, knights, bolts and pushes. I'm playing 2 tasigurs in the main partly because I really like the interaction of Tasigur delve away my graveyard to let Jace continue to loot.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Draft My Cube!
It's been a while since I've last posted. Glad to see that the thread has been more active lately! This is a wonderful deck
Thanks FuneralofGod. I love Grim Flayer. They put early pressure on the opponent, allow us to dig into our library for specific cards and also help us feed our graveyard with cards we don't want in our hands (Iona, Shield of Emeria, Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite,Unburial Rites, Lingering Souls among others). It never disappoints me and I think I will stay with 3 copies.
Regarding Sun Titan, I really like the card, and it has been useful in some particular game. It gets back both Lilianas, baby Jace, Grim Flayer, Snapcaster Mage, Fetches and Ghost Quarter which is very useful against some matchups (thinking of Tron and Valakut)). Even post-board it helps getting back Detention Sphere or Fulminator Mage. The only problem with it is that I rarely get to hardcast it, and usually when I gift for Unburial Rites I prefer to get the Iona or Elesh Norn package. I think Sun Titan competes with Tasigur, the Golden Fang, Tasigur being easier to cast. But overall I enjoy playing with it. I removed Eternal Witness as I think Sun Titan, baby Jace and Snapcaster Mage are enough to get back any cards from our graveyard.
Mostly with Jace, I mostly use it to re-cast removal spells, but it depends of the situation. Collective Brutality is probably one of the cards I target most.
Sure sometimes I wish I had more discard spells so I get at least one in my opening hand, but overall 5 discard spells at 1cmc and 2 at 2cmc are enough, since we can re-use them later with Snap and Jace.
Overall I'm pretty happy with my deck (what deck allows you to play Iona, baby Jace, and Grim Flayer in the same shell???), though I'm sure it could be improved.
I made a few changes to my previous list. I post it here below:
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
3 Lingering Souls
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Unburial Rites
(11) Instant
4 Gifts Ungiven
3 Path to exile
2 Fatal push
2 Abrupt Decay
(3) Planeswalker
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
(10) Creatures
3 Grim Flayer
3 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Sun Titan
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Blooming Marsh
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Shambling Vent
1 Marsh Flats
1 Godless Shrine
1 Flooded Strand
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Polluted Delta
1 Watery Grave
1 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Windswept Heath
1 Temple Garden
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Breeding Pool
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Dispel
1 Raven's Crime
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Extirpate
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Countersquall
2 Stony Silence
1 Life from the Loam
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Detention Sphere
1 Damnation
1 Flaying Tendrils
1 Ojutai's Command
@Breathe1234 Your list is interesting. Since you're splashing red, have you considered playing Lightning Bolt? Also do you think Snapcaster Mage could get a spot in your list?
Have you guys check some of the new cards from Rivals of Ixalan? Up to now two cards got my attention World Shaper and Journey to Eternity//Atzal, Cave of Eternity. World Shaper digs our library and can help us ramp once it dies since our graveyard is very often filled with lands. This might help us hardcast high costed spells (Iona, Sun titan or Elesh Norn). And Journey to Eternity once flipped is like our Unburial Rites, allowing us to recast Iona or Elesh indefinitely from our graveyard. What's more, it's an enchantment, which can help Grim Flayer's delirium once in the grave. Would be very interesting to get your opinions on the upcoming cards!
Cheers
- Push is just better, I'm more interested in control and answering than burning people out. The reach is never relevant.
- I cut snapcaster mage. I'm just not impressed by snapcaster mage in the gifts archetype. I find for snapcaster to be good in a deck, you need to have a combination of Instant Draw spells, counterspells, removal. The gifts archtype only have 1 of the three. Similarly, people bring in way too much grave hate for us. Snapcaster mage gets alot worse post board. I prefer Liliana or Taisgur in snapcaster's slots
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
I've found I often struggled to get delirium quickly enough, which just has him sitting on board as a 2/2 unable to attack, applying no pressure.
With delirium active and when he's able to attack he's gas though.
Been testing my 2 drop creature slot a lot recently, had 4x flayer 2x scooze before but having so many 2/2s was really awkward.
Testing 2x flayer 4x goyf currently and so far it feels good.
@theflyingdeer Your list is interesting, you aren't running much green, how tempted are you just to go straight esper?
As for search for azcanta I've been meaning to test it, it seems like an easy include. Helps fill the gy and digs for spells, which we often run many of. If anyone is testing it I'd be really interested in how it played.
Here's my current list that I'm about to go into the top 4 of a local league with.
Pretty sure I'm up against eldrazi tron which I have no experience playing against and which seems like a pretty bad matchup. Any gameplay and sideboarding advice?
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
4 tarmogoyf
2 Grim Flayer
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Disruption
1 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Raven's Crime
1 Collective Brutality
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Path to Exile
2 Fatal Push
1 Maelstrom Pulse
Other
4 Gifts Ungiven
1 Unburial Rites
1 Life from the Loam
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
3 Lingering Souls
1 Shambling Vent
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Watery Grave
2 Windswept Heath
3 Marsh Flats
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
2 Blooming Marsh
1 Breeding Pool
1 Celestial Purge
2 Collective Brutality
1 Damnation
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Flaying Tendrils
1 nihil spellbomb
2 Negate
2 Stony Silence
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Terastodon