Aiolia, with the list you posted, here's how i'd sideboard:
UWR:
-1 platinum angel, -3 repeal (the card is super bad here, you don't want to give them value, and the only non value creature you can bounce is the GOST angel token and maybe stony silence, -1 talisman (i'd be VERY weary about siding out 3 talismans without bringing in land like tec edge/ghost quarter), +2 spellskite, +3 negate. (possibly also bring in 1 dismember for colonnade, angel since O-stone doesnt hit colonnade).
JUND:
+1 Wurmcoil, +1 ratchet, -1 angel, -1 remand. I'm not sure what needle is for. Liliana?
POD: seems fine the way you did it. I like a squelch against POD but thats fine too. O-stone is I think the best card in this matchup to be honest.
Twin: bring in dismembers and I think at least 1 stone is fine. You can cut both wurmcoils here pretty safely. Tapping 6 for a creature that does nothing isn't a good plan in this matchup.
UW midrange: see comments about cutting talismans
Scapeshift: seem fine. Counters and sundering titan are your best cards here.
Affinity: I don't think dismembers are really all that good here while platinum angel is actually very good. Very few lists can actually kill angel and with extra spell skites you can actually protect it pretty well.
Burn/Infect: seems fine.
---------------------------------
I've cut talismans altogether for 2 islands which i've liked so far.
With that said, the emergence of Junk is a pretty serious blow to playing this deck.
You're already fighting against very serious hate like sowing salts in UWR and their PTE/Snapcaster game plan against you. But now you're also fighting against PTE in another hugely popular deck.
Path is a very real hoser against everything you want to do in the game.
The deck was awesome against RGB Jund but that deck is in major decline and PTE is way stronger than bolt against this deck.
I'm gonna keep trying this with different cards but i'm not overly optimistic and I may either add a second color to see how it goes or shelf the deck completely till white decks die down a bit.
Yeah, Path to Exile is a pain. When playing against these decks, if I can't go for Mindslaver for some reason, I just go for Sundering Titan. People will usually Path it 'cause they can't handle a 7/10 beast, and usually end up with 1-2 lands at most.
I saw your list today on Wizards.com (DE results) - I assume you're Vamp1r on MTGO - and noticed you cut the Talismans. Aren't you missing them because of all the land destruction out there? What about MD Spellskite?
What I did similarly to you was cut 1 Treasure Mage and add 1 Ratchet Bomb. It helps a lot on a bunch of MUs. I also tried the Tolaria West but gave up. I have 1 Dreadship Reef and it's awesome on longer games (like the mirror match I played yesterday, when I had 9 counters on it at some point).
Yeah thats the list i've been running for a while. Inkwell Leviathan is sweet. I really like that card but i think its probably more of a pet card than anything else. I don't know if it would be good in the deck but might try it out...Mind slaver is good for non UWR, good luck resolving it against UWR, remand+Cryptic command are a lot better than remand+condescend.
I'm not missing the talismans b/c I just replaced them with islands. Before, my awkward hands were Mine, Mine Talisman condescend, thirst, treasure mage, Wurmcoil. Do you tap out T2 if you dont draw land? Do you even keep that hand and hope you can draw into an island to be able to cast Thirst?
Now that same hand is Mine, Mine, Island, condescend, thirst, mage, wurmcoil. Now you're playing draw go, you can counter something T2, you can actually cast Thirst on opponents turn, and have an extra turn to draw into a land.
I like making my land drops and being able to counter stuff on T2 more often.
Dreadship reef seems good. I just wish it tapped for U. I'll check it out.
Seriously though. Path. If you're playing against a field where half the decks run path, either play more spellskites maindeck or play a different deck. And yeah that single spellskite has been awesome . A lot of times I kind of wish I was running 2 maindeck.
For what its worth I got crushed in two dailies yesterday going 1-2 (IIRC) losing to Junk and tron in 1 DE and Junk and UWR I think in the second DE.
Mind slaver is good for non UWR, good luck resolving it against UWR, remand+Cryptic command are a lot better than remand+condescend.
Isn't that the case with all wincons? With Mindslaver I can at least take advantage of a tapped out opponent to resolve it even without the mana to activate it. Of course, they can then use Cryptic to bounce it later, but it's doable.
I'm not missing the talismans b/c I just replaced them with islands. Before, my awkward hands were Mine, Mine Talisman condescend, thirst, treasure mage, Wurmcoil. Do you tap out T2 if you dont draw land? Do you even keep that hand and hope you can draw into an island to be able to cast Thirst?
Now that same hand is Mine, Mine, Island, condescend, thirst, mage, wurmcoil. Now you're playing draw go, you can counter something T2, you can actually cast Thirst on opponents turn, and have an extra turn to draw into a land.
I like making my land drops and being able to counter stuff on T2 more often.
Dreadship reef seems good. I just wish it tapped for U. I'll check it out.
Yeah, you get more consistency for sure. On the other hand, T3 Solemn is pretty good too. That said, MonoU depends way less on Talismans/Signets than Ux Tron.
Seriously though. Path. If you're playing against a field where half the decks run path, either play more spellskites maindeck or play a different deck. And yeah that single spellskite has been awesome . A lot of times I kind of wish I was running 2 maindeck.
For what its worth I got crushed in two dailies yesterday going 1-2 (IIRC) losing to Junk and tron in 1 DE and Junk and UWR I think in the second DE.
Well, Path is played heavily but about half of the Tier 1 decks. That's an issue.
So, I got someone to ragequit game 1 on me. I went first, played island, passed the turn. He played a fetch, cracked it, I squelched it with a simian spirit guide. Next turn he tries to crack a fetch again, I squelch it again. Spirit guides aren't that good but I love putting them in randomly in casual games
I'm seriously thinking of switching out talismans for islands and running 1 inkwell mainboard for all the PTE.
I got three ragequits yesterday after early Leaks/Repeals.
Another possible out to Path is play something like Phyrexia's Core to sac Wurmcoil and recur it with Ruins. Trading Post can do the same, but it's even harder to pull off.
I'm playing 25 lands. If you get extra lands you can always pitch them to PTK.
Lucashungaro: I was exaggerating a bit with the counterspells but the answer is generally no. Since aside from sundering titan and mindslaver, UWR doesnt super care that you resolved one of your win conditions. Wurmcoil/hellkite/angel provide 0 value if pathed/bounced so if they're holding path, or a snapcaster late game, they'll just let you resolve it and save their counters for cards that are actually good against them. Where as if you were playing 4 sundering titans they'd actually have to counter every single one.
I like inkwell because its a giant flying whale and it has hexproof. I'd love it if someone tested him out and said yeah this guy rocks. I just like the flavor of the card mostly. I didnt play when it was in standard so im totally clueless.
Re: talismans/signets. I think they're a must in any U/X tron decks. In Mono U they can be a liability.
Yeah thats the list i've been running for a while. Inkwell Leviathan is sweet. I really like that card but i think its probably more of a pet card than anything else. I don't know if it would be good in the deck but might try it out...Mind slaver is good for non UWR, good luck resolving it against UWR, remand+Cryptic command are a lot better than remand+condescend.
Academy Ruins leads to inevitability in this MU and you should not try and resolve slaver into their counters, Mindslaver always ends this MU for me in my favor
I'm not missing the talismans b/c I just replaced them with islands. Before, my awkward hands were Mine, Mine Talisman condescend, thirst, treasure mage, Wurmcoil. Do you tap out T2 if you dont draw land? Do you even keep that hand and hope you can draw into an island to be able to cast Thirst?
Now that same hand is Mine, Mine, Island, condescend, thirst, mage, wurmcoil. Now you're playing draw go, you can counter something T2, you can actually cast Thirst on opponents turn, and have an extra turn to draw into a land.
I like making my land drops and being able to counter stuff on T2 more often.
Dreadship reef seems good. I just wish it tapped for U. I'll check it out.
If you want to try the Draw-Go plan I recommend Aeon Chronicler running 25 lands without fetches or massive CA spells will get you to flood a lot more often than you would like and TFK becomes worst when you lose 3 cards you can pitch to it
Other options with the Draw-Go plan is USZ or splashing White for Sphinxes Revelation
Seriously though. Path. If you're playing against a field where half the decks run path, either play more spellskites maindeck or play a different deck. And yeah that single spellskite has been awesome . A lot of times I kind of wish I was running 2 maindeck.
For what its worth I got crushed in two dailies yesterday going 1-2 (IIRC) losing to Junk and tron in 1 DE and Junk and UWR I think in the second DE.
Path is pretty easy to beat, again don't run things into your opponents answers
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If you're trying to not resolve anything relevant while they may be holding counters, you're losing the game.
Aeon Chronicler seems super bad. You don't wanna tap out to hard cast it and you're going to pay what...7 to draw three cards over the next three turns? Thats REALLY bad.
Path isnt easy to beat. Its the best targeted removal spell against this deck thats played in any competitive setting. Period. Combine it with snapcaster mage.
Also USZ in a deck that runs 10 blue sources...? You want consistency and you already have a ton of cantrips and decent draw in the basic shell.
If you're trying to not resolve anything relevant while they may be holding counters, you're losing the game.
Aeon Chronicler seems super bad. You don't wanna tap out to hard cast it and you're going to pay what...7 to draw three cards over the next three turns? Thats REALLY bad.
Path isnt easy to beat. Its the best targeted removal spell against this deck thats played in any competitive setting. Period. Combine it with snapcaster mage.
Also USZ in a deck that runs 10 blue sources...? You want consistency and you already have a ton of cantrips and decent draw in the basic shell.
I have found UWR to be quite an easy MU, you both do nothing for about 5-6 turns then start dropping bombs, Spell Burst lock comes in handy vs this MU as well
Chronicler is okay, but Staff Of Nin is better, Chronicler is good if you want to go on the CA plan and have a wincon
Again this is where Spell Burst comes in, I almost never lose to Path with this deck, sometimes I have won via beating with 2/2s because they were just holding Paths for Wurmcoils (which I never played)
Again tested USZ not so bad, just felt win more whenever it resolved, Jace is likely a better option (4.0)
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JUND:
Pithing Needle is indeed for Liliana (or Ajani), eventually for Shaman or Man-lands.
So if I don't side in dismember against affinity, it only comes in against Twin and Infect?
If Path to Exile is such a problem, Chalice of the Void seems a very good sideboard card (I don't mention Spellskite which is already played).
For UWR or UW, we have access to 3 extra counters so counter wars shouldn't be such a problem?
I agree for the example of hands where Talisman is awkward but I think the ability to ramp with Talisman and Solemn against fast decks is important. We don't get Tron online very consistently so we might need to ramp. With your example of hands, against aggro decks such as RG Gruul or Affinity, yes you can counter on turn 2/3 something but you're already attacked by small critters and getting wurmcoil on the battlefield is more important than playing draw go.
I think that the "pitch to TFK" argument is not relevant (it reminds me the "pitch to force of will" in legacy to argue with blue pet cards). You just lose another card if you start to pitch Island and you depend more on TFK if you flood.
myr battlesphere has been a good option to me when I'm afraid people are holding path. they are going to expand it, I'll get the island and keep four tokens. I can probably follow up with another threat...
no the ultimate solution tough. maybe the inkwell is worth a slot.
what I don't get is angel mainboard when it comes out against so many decks (and is especially bad against path anyways).
and on talismans and lands... I've considered cutting one for an island, but all of them? also, I'd never said all of them out just because of stony silence (altough here is another reason to run only 2 and an extra island).
btw, people should really be running 1 halimar dephts and 1 dreadship reef.
finally... 3 dismember takes too much space if it's only good against infect and splinter twin (which I never seen to face). I bring then in against anything with tarmogoyf, dark confidant and maybe even for DRS (also against fish, this MU sucks btw). But it makes me wonder if maxing out on ratchet bomb and still having 1-2 slots for stuff like dispel or a 4th negate wouldn't be better (especially considering path is such a problem).
Infect, Bogle, Burn (will at least eat two Bolts), Affinity sometimes etc.
Here's a quote from shoktoopa:
Platinum angel is there for affinity plus its an amazing silver bullet to tutor when your opponent dumps his hand and runs out of resources. And flying helps.
makes sense... for some reason I haven't been facing many of those, but since they are the worst possible matchups, it should be worth.
altough they are the same matchups in which I think the Myr Battlesphere shines. it shuts down the table and usually leads to a concession... maybe I should run both maindeck and have an Inkwell on SB with the slot angel will free.
Wondering you guys, do you guys find value in trickbind? Or are you guys mainly staying with squelch? I'm at a point where sometimes trickbind has won me games (vs emrakul on annihilator triggers etc), but I do like the extra 1 card draw off of squelch!
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UWR:
-1 platinum angel, -3 repeal (the card is super bad here, you don't want to give them value, and the only non value creature you can bounce is the GOST angel token and maybe stony silence, -1 talisman (i'd be VERY weary about siding out 3 talismans without bringing in land like tec edge/ghost quarter), +2 spellskite, +3 negate. (possibly also bring in 1 dismember for colonnade, angel since O-stone doesnt hit colonnade).
JUND:
+1 Wurmcoil, +1 ratchet, -1 angel, -1 remand. I'm not sure what needle is for. Liliana?
POD: seems fine the way you did it. I like a squelch against POD but thats fine too. O-stone is I think the best card in this matchup to be honest.
Twin: bring in dismembers and I think at least 1 stone is fine. You can cut both wurmcoils here pretty safely. Tapping 6 for a creature that does nothing isn't a good plan in this matchup.
UW midrange: see comments about cutting talismans
Scapeshift: seem fine. Counters and sundering titan are your best cards here.
Affinity: I don't think dismembers are really all that good here while platinum angel is actually very good. Very few lists can actually kill angel and with extra spell skites you can actually protect it pretty well.
Burn/Infect: seems fine.
---------------------------------
I've cut talismans altogether for 2 islands which i've liked so far.
With that said, the emergence of Junk is a pretty serious blow to playing this deck.
You're already fighting against very serious hate like sowing salts in UWR and their PTE/Snapcaster game plan against you. But now you're also fighting against PTE in another hugely popular deck.
Path is a very real hoser against everything you want to do in the game.
The deck was awesome against RGB Jund but that deck is in major decline and PTE is way stronger than bolt against this deck.
I'm gonna keep trying this with different cards but i'm not overly optimistic and I may either add a second color to see how it goes or shelf the deck completely till white decks die down a bit.
If it comes to an extreme, might as well try Inkwell Leviathan.
I saw your list today on Wizards.com (DE results) - I assume you're Vamp1r on MTGO - and noticed you cut the Talismans. Aren't you missing them because of all the land destruction out there? What about MD Spellskite?
What I did similarly to you was cut 1 Treasure Mage and add 1 Ratchet Bomb. It helps a lot on a bunch of MUs. I also tried the Tolaria West but gave up. I have 1 Dreadship Reef and it's awesome on longer games (like the mirror match I played yesterday, when I had 9 counters on it at some point).
I'm not missing the talismans b/c I just replaced them with islands. Before, my awkward hands were Mine, Mine Talisman condescend, thirst, treasure mage, Wurmcoil. Do you tap out T2 if you dont draw land? Do you even keep that hand and hope you can draw into an island to be able to cast Thirst?
Now that same hand is Mine, Mine, Island, condescend, thirst, mage, wurmcoil. Now you're playing draw go, you can counter something T2, you can actually cast Thirst on opponents turn, and have an extra turn to draw into a land.
I like making my land drops and being able to counter stuff on T2 more often.
Dreadship reef seems good. I just wish it tapped for U. I'll check it out.
Seriously though. Path. If you're playing against a field where half the decks run path, either play more spellskites maindeck or play a different deck. And yeah that single spellskite has been awesome . A lot of times I kind of wish I was running 2 maindeck.
For what its worth I got crushed in two dailies yesterday going 1-2 (IIRC) losing to Junk and tron in 1 DE and Junk and UWR I think in the second DE.
Isn't that the case with all wincons? With Mindslaver I can at least take advantage of a tapped out opponent to resolve it even without the mana to activate it. Of course, they can then use Cryptic to bounce it later, but it's doable.
Yeah, you get more consistency for sure. On the other hand, T3 Solemn is pretty good too. That said, MonoU depends way less on Talismans/Signets than Ux Tron.
Well, Path is played heavily but about half of the Tier 1 decks. That's an issue.
I'm seriously thinking of switching out talismans for islands and running 1 inkwell mainboard for all the PTE.
Another possible out to Path is play something like Phyrexia's Core to sac Wurmcoil and recur it with Ruins. Trading Post can do the same, but it's even harder to pull off.
So you are playing 26 lands now?
What about Prophetic Prisms in Mono U? They don't ramp like talismans, but they fix your mana and cycle themselves.
Lucashungaro: I was exaggerating a bit with the counterspells but the answer is generally no. Since aside from sundering titan and mindslaver, UWR doesnt super care that you resolved one of your win conditions. Wurmcoil/hellkite/angel provide 0 value if pathed/bounced so if they're holding path, or a snapcaster late game, they'll just let you resolve it and save their counters for cards that are actually good against them. Where as if you were playing 4 sundering titans they'd actually have to counter every single one.
I like inkwell because its a giant flying whale and it has hexproof. I'd love it if someone tested him out and said yeah this guy rocks. I just like the flavor of the card mostly. I didnt play when it was in standard so im totally clueless.
Re: talismans/signets. I think they're a must in any U/X tron decks. In Mono U they can be a liability.
Academy Ruins leads to inevitability in this MU and you should not try and resolve slaver into their counters, Mindslaver always ends this MU for me in my favor
If you want to try the Draw-Go plan I recommend Aeon Chronicler running 25 lands without fetches or massive CA spells will get you to flood a lot more often than you would like and TFK becomes worst when you lose 3 cards you can pitch to it
Other options with the Draw-Go plan is USZ or splashing White for Sphinxes Revelation
Path is pretty easy to beat, again don't run things into your opponents answers
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget
I stream!
Hermit Druid Combo:
Aeon Chronicler seems super bad. You don't wanna tap out to hard cast it and you're going to pay what...7 to draw three cards over the next three turns? Thats REALLY bad.
Path isnt easy to beat. Its the best targeted removal spell against this deck thats played in any competitive setting. Period. Combine it with snapcaster mage.
Also USZ in a deck that runs 10 blue sources...? You want consistency and you already have a ton of cantrips and decent draw in the basic shell.
I have found UWR to be quite an easy MU, you both do nothing for about 5-6 turns then start dropping bombs, Spell Burst lock comes in handy vs this MU as well
Chronicler is okay, but Staff Of Nin is better, Chronicler is good if you want to go on the CA plan and have a wincon
Again this is where Spell Burst comes in, I almost never lose to Path with this deck, sometimes I have won via beating with 2/2s because they were just holding Paths for Wurmcoils (which I never played)
Again tested USZ not so bad, just felt win more whenever it resolved, Jace is likely a better option (4.0)
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget
I stream!
Hermit Druid Combo:
JUND:
Pithing Needle is indeed for Liliana (or Ajani), eventually for Shaman or Man-lands.
So if I don't side in dismember against affinity, it only comes in against Twin and Infect?
If Path to Exile is such a problem, Chalice of the Void seems a very good sideboard card (I don't mention Spellskite which is already played).
For UWR or UW, we have access to 3 extra counters so counter wars shouldn't be such a problem?
I agree for the example of hands where Talisman is awkward but I think the ability to ramp with Talisman and Solemn against fast decks is important. We don't get Tron online very consistently so we might need to ramp. With your example of hands, against aggro decks such as RG Gruul or Affinity, yes you can counter on turn 2/3 something but you're already attacked by small critters and getting wurmcoil on the battlefield is more important than playing draw go.
I think that the "pitch to TFK" argument is not relevant (it reminds me the "pitch to force of will" in legacy to argue with blue pet cards). You just lose another card if you start to pitch Island and you depend more on TFK if you flood.
no the ultimate solution tough. maybe the inkwell is worth a slot.
what I don't get is angel mainboard when it comes out against so many decks (and is especially bad against path anyways).
and on talismans and lands... I've considered cutting one for an island, but all of them? also, I'd never said all of them out just because of stony silence (altough here is another reason to run only 2 and an extra island).
btw, people should really be running 1 halimar dephts and 1 dreadship reef.
finally... 3 dismember takes too much space if it's only good against infect and splinter twin (which I never seen to face). I bring then in against anything with tarmogoyf, dark confidant and maybe even for DRS (also against fish, this MU sucks btw). But it makes me wonder if maxing out on ratchet bomb and still having 1-2 slots for stuff like dispel or a 4th negate wouldn't be better (especially considering path is such a problem).
Here's a quote from shoktoopa:
altough they are the same matchups in which I think the Myr Battlesphere shines. it shuts down the table and usually leads to a concession... maybe I should run both maindeck and have an Inkwell on SB with the slot angel will free.