I don't own any so I probably won't get any at least until we get a reprint of it in A25. I have the cash it's just a matter of being reasonable with it, it's never going to go up from what it is now so I'm not buying while it's at an all time high.
Hello everybody, it's been a while since I posted here. After the B&R announcement made last week, I think the position of our deck improves in the meta. I was thinking that I'll be expecting to see more Jace builds and Jund/random zoo decks with BBE. Jund is by far one of our best matchups, and the non-UW control builds that JTMS could fit in, are favorable (like Grixis Control). Anyways I gave the deck a test yesterday in my LGS and I really forgot how powerful it was, and with JTMS as a one-off it does improve. Got a really positive result using this list:
The decks I faced were Jund, Griselshoal Reanimator, Burn, Affinity and GW Valuetown. Got a record of 5-0 (felt like a MTGO league haha). JTMS won me like 3 games by himself with Brainstorm and Fate seal. I was very satisfied with his performance and his immediate impact on the board as he comes in, presenting a wincon by himself that our opponent needs to deal with, adding up to the others we already have. Great synegry as a one-off with gifts, card advantage, all the things you already know he provides. We are definitively not the best shell for him, but he can easily fit in. I strongly recommend you to test it, but most of all, to dust off this deck and go out to play it. We know we aren't close to being Tier One, but the element of surprise this deck provides is strong, and with the new meta I think we will be able to play it more often with positive results. Looking forward to see more data incoming on this thread
Cheers,
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Mostly Modern Player RBridgevineB RGR/G EldraziX UBlue MoonR UU/W TronW
Yeah it seems good. I might play this deck maybe next week at my weekly. I'm investing a ton in Modern (literally searching for Japanese Future Sight Goyfs) so I probably won't play this deck nearly as much. But definitely it seems reasonably poised. Jund was slightly favourable last I tested, and Jace decks should be pretty favourable.
I would probably advocate for a Crucible to offset Field of Ruins that everyone else is playing. Also a Snow-Covered Island because of Gifts.
I'm curious about the Secure the Wastes, how has it been working for you? I've been fiddling with the thopter/sword combo recently, how does Secure feel compared to other token generating strategies?
I'm curious about the Secure the Wastes, how has it been working for you? I've been fiddling with the thopter/sword combo recently, how does Secure feel compared to other token generating strategies?
Thanks! I can't really give you a comparison to Thopter Foundry because I haven't tested it myself in this deck. It is an interesting choice but in a deck that is doing a lot of things, 2-pieces combos sometimes can be a little clunky, more if you don't find a Gifts. I think Thopter Foundry is better on an immediate tutor shell, with cards like Whir of Invention. Secure the Wastes works as a versatile card, something that our deck prizes. Useful with or without Tron, early or late game. With tron online is sweet but I have used it also as a follow up to Elesh Norn with 3-4 3/3 tokens. Instant speed chump-blockers, and also a great target for Snapcaster Mage. Obviously it does little to nothing on certain matches, but most of our strong cards have bad matches also. What I love the most of this card it's that it isn't color demanding and it's an instant. I was sold on the idea that it could help me defend Jace but it has surprised me with the things you can do with it. U/W Control decks have been running one lately, so you can find more evidence there.
I would probably advocate for a Crucible to offset Field of Ruins that everyone else is playing. Also a Snow-Covered Island because of Gifts.
I moved away from Crucible on E-Tron after facing a heavy K-command meta. With the return of Abrupt Decay it doesn't get better honestly. But it's a reasonable out, should be worth to test.
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Mostly Modern Player RBridgevineB RGR/G EldraziX UBlue MoonR UU/W TronW
Thanks for the response! I'm going to try and look for one as soon as I can, I feel like I pulled one in a draft so many moons ago, but traded or gave it away as so much draft chaff. I'll also start taking a look at the U/W control boards and chats, as they seem to have a similar goal as us in terms of "control the board and then have a big finish", but go about about it in a different way. Thanks again!
Played the deck today (sans Jace, not buying until the reprint drops the price). Didn't go so well.
Round 1 vs Hollow One:
Game 1 we both mull to 6, Burning Inquiry leaves me with one colourless land. I stumble on lands and just never get anything going. Game 2 he Ancient Grudges my Signet then plays Blood Moon to keep me off of coloured mana. It wasn't close either game.
Record: 0-1
Round 2 vs Turns:
This matchup is just impossible to win. Gigadrowse is hard to interact with because of Replicate, and they just get to go off when you have no mana. Unless you manage to get Gifts on turn 4, you're just never winning. There's also the fact you're trying to do that through Remand/Cryptic/Relic, so it's not even an easy thing to do. Neither game was close, some combination of Gigadrowse/Exhaustion into a bunch of extra turns sealed the games.
Record: 0-2
I dropped at 0-2 with a third round bye. The deck doesn't seem that bad but I just ran poorly, getting a bad matchup or that Burning Inquiry. Probably won't be playing this deck for a while since I'm waiting on some cards for Jund to arrive. I'll probably pick up Jaces in April so maybe the next time I'll play the deck will be in a couple months. Maybe by then the format will be more stable.
Played last Thursday at 40+ modern night. Went 0-3 so I won't bore you with details. Bottom line, the meta feels more diverse since I last played, and I think this deck can at least hang with other decks. I played Jace out of the sideboard and only stuck him once (he died shortly thereafter), but he was definitely the card everyone wanted me to discard with Thoughtseize.
One card that I thought was really bad was Remand. I'm thinking about swapping in some number of Spell Pierces, or maybe additional Condescends? Any ideas on better counterspells? It could also be my rust showing as I definitely made a few misplays.
The deck was fun and people like watching it. Some opponents are, What the heck are you trying to do here?
Been playing the deck from time to time lately since the B&R like I said. The meta is very, very diverse and unstable to really know where the deck is standing, but we really have some good matchups and some other bad matchups like everyone else. I been facing Jund with a lot of success, considering how Jund sorta gives you time to get to your thing, and that every single card in our core is good against them. Just came across to the conclusion that Emrakul saw her power diminished thanks to all the new Eldrazis that are running around. I casted him twice last week and wasn't able to finish off because an Eldrazi Obligator and a Displacer that did their thing in their games (losing to your own Emrakul is painful). By the way that G/R Eldrazi deck really gives us a hard time. Eldrazi Obligator can deal with every threat we have in the deck and kill us with it. Have anyone tried Newmrakul for this deck? Curious to hear how that went.
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Mostly Modern Player RBridgevineB RGR/G EldraziX UBlue MoonR UU/W TronW
Damping Sphere
2
Artifact
If a land is tapped for two or more mana, it produces C instead of any other type and amount.
Each spell a player casts costs 1 more to cast for each other spell that player has cast this turn.
Fresh off the Dominaria release notes spoiled earlier, this first ability seems like a pretty big hose to everything we're trying to do, and the second clause doesn't do us any favours either. Maybe time to start maindecking Ceremonious Rejection in place of a Remand?
You won't ever see this in mainboards so there won't be a need for Rejection in the main. As far as an answer, not sure if it's any better than Blood Moon. It acts similar on the first clause while hosing many other decks. Tron decks tend to play very few spells per turn so the second clause doesn't really do much against them. Maybe you'll see it from non-red decks that want a Tron answer, but it dying to artifact removal instead of enchantment removal is big.
I think it'll see some play, but probably not as much as you think. Don't forget that while we are a Tron deck, it's not super critical for us to have Tron. Even if that card is good against us, how good is still up for debate.
So ignoring it as a hose to us for a second, is this our answer to Gx tron? It'e never been a good matchup because they just go bigger than us faster and don't fold to our combo. Imagine a scenario where t2 instead of signeting we just play this. Then they can't play karn t3 and we get to do our thing, ramping out a fatty and killing them before they can do anything. Honestly, I feel like this is better for our deck than it is against our deck.
It's like a colorless Blood Moon for everyone if you play it against Tron. The main issue with this and also blood moon is that you need to pressure somehow the Tron player before they start hardcasting stuff or find their removal. I could give it a go because it gives us the time we need to get there against combo decks. Against Tron, I'm not that sure.
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Mostly Modern Player RBridgevineB RGR/G EldraziX UBlue MoonR UU/W TronW
Used standard build for the most part, except for:
> 1 Faith's Fetters. Deals with LOTV well, as they can't abrupt decay it.
> 1 Karn Liberated. Great win condition. Helped me seal Jund in game 3.
> 1 Syncopate/2Condescend, for easier gifts targeting should I need a counter.
The more I look at the card the more I realize it's going to see play. It happens to kill both Storm and Tron in a single colourless card. It's obviously going to see a fair bit of play, and I definitely underestimated it.
Now, looking at the card itself and how it matches up against us, I'm not exactly sure it's that big of a deal early on. That's one of the strengths of our deck, that we don't get hosed by hate the same way Eldrazi or Gx Tron does. While it's obviously going to be unfortunate that our lands aren't tapping for the mana we need them to, we often don't need them to. Gifts Combo doesn't need Tron at all, so we don't necessarily get blown out by it.
If you're thinking of playing it, I don't think it's the Tron answer we're looking for. The problem in that matchup is that they get to late game earlier than us while dodging Gifts Combo. What we really need is a Gifts target that can win the game. Like Iona except for colourless.
It seems that Ironworks combo could start to see play again. Same as Lantern, now that Jace haven't found a proper core deck beyond UW Taking Turns and some other control decks. Any idea how to fight artifact-based decks other than affinity? I tend to sideboard my aggro-decks plan against affinity, so I think I don't have a proper answer to artifacts. Is Disenchant our only option?
By the way, how have you felt the Humans matchup? Any experiences? I'm hoping to find some on the way soon to test it. I'm planning to go to GP Las Vegas most likely to play this deck on June so if you guys can help me with data of a wider meta I would appreciate it a lot
Cheers,
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Mostly Modern Player RBridgevineB RGR/G EldraziX UBlue MoonR UU/W TronW
Anyone have any updates on whether Jace, the mind sculptor fits well in our deck? This deck community seems like it needs a little revitalization. I'm still kicking butt with this deck and think it still has legs. I'll post my current decklist in a couple days once I'm done tinkering. Anyone care to post what they are running right now? I'm finding a turn 3 Thought-Knot Seer to be especially powerful (in my mid-rangey meta).
My meta consists largely of Jund, Abzan, UW Control, Humans, Infect, Bogles, Burn, and the odd GR Tron player. Notes about the deck:
1) I've been disappointed with Remand lately and have complete removed it, replacing the two I usually run with another condescend and thought-knot seer. So far, I've enjoyed the change.
2) I found the meta to be quite fast lately, even Jund does not let you do your thing like it used to, due to Bloodbraid Elf.I'm not sure Emrakul, the Aeons Torn is the best finisher for faster decks. I was never a fan of Mindslaver due to its prone-ness to getting hit by hate and how many cards you need for the combo. Has anyone been experimenting with Ulamog, the infinite gyre? To retain the shuffle effect with a more castable finisher? I recognize Ula is a downgrade from a finisher than Emmy, but I'm still winning most of my games via gifting for Iona, so it's more about the shuffle effect to me with more potential for casting later. Would love opinions on this or another finisher.
3) Damping Sphere is not actually printed yet, I have Damping Matrix in there right now. I intend to swap them as soon as I acquire the new card to see how it fairs against Gx Tron.
Happy to answer any questions and would like to know if others' current lists are similar, and if not how do they differ? This deck is the good deck that no one knows about.
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Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
4x Urza's Tower
4x Urza's Mine
4x Urza's Power Plant
3x Hallowed Fountain
2x Celestial Colonnade
2x Seachrome Coast
1x Field of Ruin
1x Flooded Strand
2x Island
1x Plains
Creatures
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Snapcaster Mage
Planeswalkers
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3x Expedition Map
3x Azorius Signet
1x Talisman of Progress
Instants/Sorceries
4x Gifts Ungiven
4x Path to Exile
3x Condescend
3x Thirst for Knowledge
2x Remand
1x Blessed Alliance
1x Secure the Wastes
1x Unburial Rites
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Wrath of God
1x Day of Judgment
1x Sphinx's Revelation
2x Leyline of Sanctity
2x Ghostly Prison
2x Celestial Purge
2x Negate
1x Ceremonious Rejection
1x Dispel
1x Disenchant
1x Pithing Needle
1x Timely Reinforcements
1x Thought-Knot Seer
1x Relic of Progenitus
The decks I faced were Jund, Griselshoal Reanimator, Burn, Affinity and GW Valuetown. Got a record of 5-0 (felt like a MTGO league haha). JTMS won me like 3 games by himself with Brainstorm and Fate seal. I was very satisfied with his performance and his immediate impact on the board as he comes in, presenting a wincon by himself that our opponent needs to deal with, adding up to the others we already have. Great synegry as a one-off with gifts, card advantage, all the things you already know he provides. We are definitively not the best shell for him, but he can easily fit in. I strongly recommend you to test it, but most of all, to dust off this deck and go out to play it. We know we aren't close to being Tier One, but the element of surprise this deck provides is strong, and with the new meta I think we will be able to play it more often with positive results. Looking forward to see more data incoming on this thread
Cheers,
RBridgevineB
RGR/G EldraziX
UBlue MoonR
UU/W TronW
I would probably advocate for a Crucible to offset Field of Ruins that everyone else is playing. Also a Snow-Covered Island because of Gifts.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
I'm curious about the Secure the Wastes, how has it been working for you? I've been fiddling with the thopter/sword combo recently, how does Secure feel compared to other token generating strategies?
Thanks! I can't really give you a comparison to Thopter Foundry because I haven't tested it myself in this deck. It is an interesting choice but in a deck that is doing a lot of things, 2-pieces combos sometimes can be a little clunky, more if you don't find a Gifts. I think Thopter Foundry is better on an immediate tutor shell, with cards like Whir of Invention. Secure the Wastes works as a versatile card, something that our deck prizes. Useful with or without Tron, early or late game. With tron online is sweet but I have used it also as a follow up to Elesh Norn with 3-4 3/3 tokens. Instant speed chump-blockers, and also a great target for Snapcaster Mage. Obviously it does little to nothing on certain matches, but most of our strong cards have bad matches also. What I love the most of this card it's that it isn't color demanding and it's an instant. I was sold on the idea that it could help me defend Jace but it has surprised me with the things you can do with it. U/W Control decks have been running one lately, so you can find more evidence there.
I moved away from Crucible on E-Tron after facing a heavy K-command meta. With the return of Abrupt Decay it doesn't get better honestly. But it's a reasonable out, should be worth to test.
RBridgevineB
RGR/G EldraziX
UBlue MoonR
UU/W TronW
Round 1 vs Hollow One:
Game 1 we both mull to 6, Burning Inquiry leaves me with one colourless land. I stumble on lands and just never get anything going. Game 2 he Ancient Grudges my Signet then plays Blood Moon to keep me off of coloured mana. It wasn't close either game.
Record: 0-1
Round 2 vs Turns:
This matchup is just impossible to win. Gigadrowse is hard to interact with because of Replicate, and they just get to go off when you have no mana. Unless you manage to get Gifts on turn 4, you're just never winning. There's also the fact you're trying to do that through Remand/Cryptic/Relic, so it's not even an easy thing to do. Neither game was close, some combination of Gigadrowse/Exhaustion into a bunch of extra turns sealed the games.
Record: 0-2
I dropped at 0-2 with a third round bye. The deck doesn't seem that bad but I just ran poorly, getting a bad matchup or that Burning Inquiry. Probably won't be playing this deck for a while since I'm waiting on some cards for Jund to arrive. I'll probably pick up Jaces in April so maybe the next time I'll play the deck will be in a couple months. Maybe by then the format will be more stable.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
One card that I thought was really bad was Remand. I'm thinking about swapping in some number of Spell Pierces, or maybe additional Condescends? Any ideas on better counterspells? It could also be my rust showing as I definitely made a few misplays.
The deck was fun and people like watching it. Some opponents are, What the heck are you trying to do here?
RBridgevineB
RGR/G EldraziX
UBlue MoonR
UU/W TronW
2
Artifact
If a land is tapped for two or more mana, it produces C instead of any other type and amount.
Each spell a player casts costs 1 more to cast for each other spell that player has cast this turn.
Fresh off the Dominaria release notes spoiled earlier, this first ability seems like a pretty big hose to everything we're trying to do, and the second clause doesn't do us any favours either. Maybe time to start maindecking Ceremonious Rejection in place of a Remand?
I think it'll see some play, but probably not as much as you think. Don't forget that while we are a Tron deck, it's not super critical for us to have Tron. Even if that card is good against us, how good is still up for debate.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
RBridgevineB
RGR/G EldraziX
UBlue MoonR
UU/W TronW
1. Ad Nauseum. 0-2
2. Mardu Pyromancer. 2-0
3. Jeskai Tempo. 2-0
4. Jund. 2-1
Used standard build for the most part, except for:
> 1 Faith's Fetters. Deals with LOTV well, as they can't abrupt decay it.
> 1 Karn Liberated. Great win condition. Helped me seal Jund in game 3.
> 1 Syncopate/2Condescend, for easier gifts targeting should I need a counter.
Now, looking at the card itself and how it matches up against us, I'm not exactly sure it's that big of a deal early on. That's one of the strengths of our deck, that we don't get hosed by hate the same way Eldrazi or Gx Tron does. While it's obviously going to be unfortunate that our lands aren't tapping for the mana we need them to, we often don't need them to. Gifts Combo doesn't need Tron at all, so we don't necessarily get blown out by it.
If you're thinking of playing it, I don't think it's the Tron answer we're looking for. The problem in that matchup is that they get to late game earlier than us while dodging Gifts Combo. What we really need is a Gifts target that can win the game. Like Iona except for colourless.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
By the way, how have you felt the Humans matchup? Any experiences? I'm hoping to find some on the way soon to test it. I'm planning to go to GP Las Vegas most likely to play this deck on June so if you guys can help me with data of a wider meta I would appreciate it a lot
Cheers,
RBridgevineB
RGR/G EldraziX
UBlue MoonR
UU/W TronW
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
4x Celestial Colonnade
2x Flooded Strand
1x Ghost Quarter
2x Hallowed Fountain
1x Haven of the Spirit Dragon
1x Island
1x Plains
1x Snow-Covered Island
1x Snow-Covered Plains
3x Urza's Mine
3x Urza's Power Plant
4x Urza's Tower
Planeswalker (2)
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Instant (17)
4x Condescend
4x Gifts Ungiven
4x Path to Exile
1x Sphinx's Revelation
4x Thirst for Knowledge
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Snapcaster Mage
3x Thought-Knot Seer
Sorcery (4)
1x Day of Judgment
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Unburial Rites
1x Wrath of God
Artifact (5)
3x Azorius Signet
2x Expedition Map
Enchantment (1)
1x Cast Out
2x Blessed Alliance
1x Celestial Purge
1x Damping Sphere
1x Disenchant
1x Dispel
1x Ghostly Prison
2x Negate
2x Pithing Needle
1x Relic of Progenitus
1x Spellskite
2x Timely Reinforcements
My meta consists largely of Jund, Abzan, UW Control, Humans, Infect, Bogles, Burn, and the odd GR Tron player. Notes about the deck:
1) I've been disappointed with Remand lately and have complete removed it, replacing the two I usually run with another condescend and thought-knot seer. So far, I've enjoyed the change.
2) I found the meta to be quite fast lately, even Jund does not let you do your thing like it used to, due to Bloodbraid Elf.I'm not sure Emrakul, the Aeons Torn is the best finisher for faster decks. I was never a fan of Mindslaver due to its prone-ness to getting hit by hate and how many cards you need for the combo. Has anyone been experimenting with Ulamog, the infinite gyre? To retain the shuffle effect with a more castable finisher? I recognize Ula is a downgrade from a finisher than Emmy, but I'm still winning most of my games via gifting for Iona, so it's more about the shuffle effect to me with more potential for casting later. Would love opinions on this or another finisher.
3) Damping Sphere is not actually printed yet, I have Damping Matrix in there right now. I intend to swap them as soon as I acquire the new card to see how it fairs against Gx Tron.
Happy to answer any questions and would like to know if others' current lists are similar, and if not how do they differ? This deck is the good deck that no one knows about.