If all goes well I'll be taking my deck out for a spin this weekend. I'm just going to use the primer list, the only change I have right now is an Ethersworn Canonist over a Rule of Law since I don't have a Rule of Law.
Yeah i don't have one either but we only have 1 Storm guy at our LGS who has switched to Affinity mainly so hopefully I'm safe. I am a little concerned about Burn and Infect, but we'll see how it goes.
Yeah i don't have one either but we only have 1 Storm guy at our LGS who has switched to Affinity mainly so hopefully I'm safe. I am a little concerned about Burn and Infect, but we'll see how it goes.
Yeah, I know at least one person is bringing Storm, since I'm urging my friend to come who wants to play Storm. Aside from that though, we had a lot of Storm when it was a really good deck, so I expect some now. At least enough for me to board one card. It's not that much worse that I'm concerned.
Went 4-0 and took first at FNM tonight, 26 total players.
I made a ton of play mistakes just due to not paying attention. 2 games were against silly home brews (one token populate one actually stole a game from me) the other two were more interesting.
Round 2 was against a Mill deck (yeah yeah I know) but it was actually really good. I got him game 1 because he couldn't deal with Emrakul. Game 2 he got because with Emrakul's trigger on the stack he hit me with Crypt Incursion and I was tapped out. Game 3 I knew he was sitting on Crypt Incursion and Surgical Extraction, which if he resolved I would likely lose. We go to turns. On turn 3 (my turn) he mills and hits Emrakul. I ask for responses and he flashes in Snapcaster, targeting Crypt Incursion. He targeted that instead of Extraction since he was dead on board due to two Celestial Colonnades activating next turn. I have just enough mana to Snapcaster and Condescend for 4, winning
the game.
Round 4, the finals, against RW Hatebears (he had red for Bolt and Helix, it was a good deck).
Game 1 I won off the back of Iona naming White (I had to hardcast her with 5 life left). I figure if he draws bolt I'm dead but he had already used two, and I hadn't seen a Path yet, so I knew he probably had 1 in hand. Well turns out White was the right call and I stabilized and won with Iona and Colonnade.
He does an early 9 damage, I get Iona out naming White. Next turn I play Wurmcoil and swing with Iona. I am down to 5 life again. I draw Timely Reinforcements and he scoops. i have literally never beaten this guy ever, so I was stoked.
It was also enough to win the whole thing (this was my first time winning FNM).
Oh and before the night started I beat Infect 2-1, which was awesome.
I played the exact list in the primer today, I managed to borrow one Rule of Law. There were like 20ish people, it was 4 rounds. I went 1-2 and dropped.
Round 1:
G1:
I play against Eggs, which I'm surprised since it's not a deck anymore. I get off an early Gifts naming white, and he can't find the Echoing Truth in time, though I had a Condescend in hand for it and Tron active.
Sideboard:
+1 Rule of Law
+1 Dispel
+2 Negate
+2 Relic
+1 Suppression Field
+1 Disenchant
-1 Elesh Norn
-3 Wrath
-4 Path
Pretty much they play no creatures. In hindsight the Suppression Field hits almost nothing, but I have dead cards.
G2:
I basically draw a ton of counters and Gifts. I had Negates and stuff ready and cast Emrakul with a Remand and Negate in hand.
Record: 1-1
Round 2:
G1:
I'm up against Jund, which is always a decent enough matchup. I get to an Elesh Norn fairly early and he was sort of exhausted out of resources. I didn't fetch for it, just hard cast. He ended up just losing to it after taking 10 twice with my Colonnade.
G2:
I had early Tron with a Wurmcoil on turn 4. He drew Slaughter Pact off a Bob and then an Abrupt Decay for the Deathtouch token. After that I basically drew nothing all game. He eventually had double Goyf in play and ran me over.
G3:
I knew my opponent was pretty bad after the first game, so he let me cast Snapcaster -> Condescend while he had Ooze + mana up. Still, this game is hard. This game proved to be exactly why I don't like Supreme Verdict. I had it in hand all game and never hit a third U/W source. He had no cards left and 3 creatures in play, plus a Lili which I had a Colonnade for. I could have won that game if I had drawn it, that's basically it. I had like 6 turns to draw one too, never happened. Supreme Verdict is hard to cast.
Record: 1-1
Round 3:
G1:
I'm up against UR Delver. I suspected it was USA Control from the player, but I guess not. He had an early Lavamancer and then a Clique to get what he needed out of my hand. He Spell Pierced both my Gifts, it was just not meant to be.
G2:
Game two had Elesh Norn, and two attacks for 10 with Colonnade were brutal. I had the Dispel when he tried to Vapor Snag it, nothing he could do.
G3:
I drew 3 Signets, a Map, and a Gifts, the rest were lands. All my mana cards resolved but the Gifts didn't. There was a reasonable chance I could win if I had more time, but with him resolving a turn 2 Delver and flipping it on turn 3, the clock was there. He also resolved Magus of the Moon that I couldn't answer. The game ended with double Bolt, Snapcaster -> Bolt.
Record: 1-2 drop
I don't particularly think it was a bad deck for the tournament, I just rolled really poorly. I didn't win a dice roll, rolling two Snake Eyes as well. I also got really unlucky with the Supreme Verdict. I'm still not convinced it's a good card for this deck, it's really bad when it's bad, and you need it to be cast a lot of the time.
There was also apparently another UW Tron player, which took me by surprise. Everyone there knows there's only two of us who've ever played this deck, and the other guy doesn't come around much anymore, so it's basically just me. All the regulars know it too. I thought it was pretty cool someone else had it.
Gonna try my hand at Twin now, I borrowed the necessary cards for it so we'll see how that goes. I think the deck's much better than this, even if I like this deck a lot.
Bye, 2-0
Bye, 2-0
Merfolk, 0-2
Mono Blue Ninja Bear Delver, 0-2
UR Delver, 2-1
Mono Green Devotion, 2-1
Storm, 1-2
The Merfolk and Ninja deck are actually just terrible matchups. Merfolk had the nuts both games one and two -- fast clock backed by light permission, Spreading Seas and Tectonic Edge. The Ninja deck stops us from doing everything and beats us down with a one drop. Against Ninjas, I had about 15 lands in play and couldn't draw anything to close out the game. Lost game three to storm when I had to mull to 5 and Ghost Quarter my own land to cast Ethersworn Canonist on turn two.
Overall, I'd say I had some bad beats, but I'd definitely play the deck again.
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Currently Playing:
Standard UGRB Emerge
Modern U Tron
Legacy UWBRG The E.P.I.C. Storm
I've read the primer and wanted to make a few comments regarding darksteel88's decklist.
LSV, Gerry Thompson and Reid Duke are all playing the "5th signet" or talisman in their maindeck. I feel this is correct, it is not only for fixing the colors, but rather being able to use unburial rites gifts combo 1 turn earlier against some decks is very very crucial.
I also like to have 1 timely reinforcements in the main or possibly more then one because its VERY VERY good in the decks that its good against. I don't like having supreme verdict in the main because you often want to cast it on turn 4 or 5 against the decks that its good against, and our decks mana simply does not allow us to do this often.
I am unsure about snapcaster in the main. it costs a lot of mana and doubles the color requirement of the original spell, although i can see it being good sometimes.
Sphinx's revelation also seems to be a so-so card that im not too sure about. when you have tron its obviously quite good, but earlier in the it cost 3 color requirements and since our decklist isn't focused on having tron early, im not sure if i would want this card. I might just want to play wurmcoil or batterskull over it.
Any thoughts on playing 1 gideon jura either in the main or the side? I feel its very very good against the creature matchups, stalls the game for a long time and saves you tons of life, it can also hit for 6 after you have stablized teh board. It also seems to be a good combo with wraths and timely as you can force them to attack and trade with timely tokens. it is also castable without tron only and it costs double white so u can cast it off 2 colored lands (if you dont have a signet).
Any thoughts on any of my points?
also, do people perfer the mindslaver lock combo or emrakul as a finisher? im unsure which "version" is better
I've read the primer and wanted to make a few comments regarding darksteel88's decklist.
LSV, Gerry Thompson and Reid Duke are all playing the "5th signet" or talisman in their maindeck. I feel this is correct, it is not only for fixing the colors, but rather being able to use unburial rites gifts combo 1 turn earlier against some decks is very very crucial.
I also like to have 1 timely reinforcements in the main or possibly more then one because its VERY VERY good in the decks that its good against. I don't like having supreme verdict in the main because you often want to cast it on turn 4 or 5 against the decks that its good against, and our decks mana simply does not allow us to do this often.
I am unsure about snapcaster in the main. it costs a lot of mana and doubles the color requirement of the original spell, although i can see it being good sometimes.
Sphinx's revelation also seems to be a so-so card that im not too sure about. when you have tron its obviously quite good, but earlier in the it cost 3 color requirements and since our decklist isn't focused on having tron early, im not sure if i would want this card. I might just want to play wurmcoil or batterskull over it.
Any thoughts on playing 1 gideon jura either in the main or the side? I feel its very very good against the creature matchups, stalls the game for a long time and saves you tons of life, it can also hit for 6 after you have stablized teh board. It also seems to be a good combo with wraths and timely as you can force them to attack and trade with timely tokens. it is also castable without tron only and it costs double white so u can cast it off 2 colored lands (if you dont have a signet).
Any thoughts on any of my points?
also, do people perfer the mindslaver lock combo or emrakul as a finisher? im unsure which "version" is better
While the Talisman isn't wrong to use, I've always felt like the deck had a high count of "dead" draws. 25 lands + 4 Signet + 3 Map, that's a lot of cards that actually don't do anything. When you add in cards like Emrakul or Unburial Rites to the mix, it's a lot of cards. When you have something like a 50% chance to draw dead in a situation, it's not exactly warming. It's why I don't run the Talisman, I'd rather have the slot actually do something. In my tournament, I had a lot of times where I wanted a real card and drew something dead.
Our mana doesn't allow you to cast Supreme Verdict when you want to ever, at least not reliably. While Timely is certainly a lot easier to cast, the Verdict is quite often just better. I've had mixed results with it, and I think ultimately I was right the first time, it's unreliable. The issue is still that you would prefer a Wrath, and since everything costs 5 or WWU, it doesn't really matter. Verdict is about as easy to cast as Hallowed Burial given that the colour is made up for by the extra one mana. So ultimately I think Verdict is the best option. It's perfectly reasonable to want it to be a Timely, but I find Timely isn't as good in the format right now. Zoo isn't a deck, and Melira Pod is. I'm also much happier that I have Verdict against Geist or Goyf.
Snapcaster is a bit on the expensive side, and falls a bit into the pitfall Verdict does. Being able to block is real though, as is flashing back a Path. While I didn't like it when I first tested it, more testing proved otherwise. I think the utility the deck gains is overall pretty good. The fact that sometimes you're flashing back Path means a Signet is fine, and even if you're flashing back Remand, it's two lands if you have no Signet. It's a tad on the slower side, but what are you going to do, cast Repeal for x=2 instead? It's not really any cheaper, just easier on the mana. But if you're imagining casting Remand/Signet on turn 2, turn 3 is really the only turn Snapcaster doesn't hit anything. I feel like if you're flashing back Wrath or Day, at 6 mana you likely have a Signet at which point the colours aren't going to bother you. I think ultimately, I'm happy because the deck doesn't run enough spells that actually interact. 4 Path, 4 Remand, 1 Condescend, and 3 Wraths. That's 12 spells, which is much less than something like UWR Control runs. Having the flexibility to decide whether you want Gifts or Path or whatever in a situation is great, as is another card to fetch from Gifts.
Most decks agree they want something in the middle of the game. Some decks run Ulamog, some run Batterskull/Wurmcoil, I've seen some go to Karn. This is also why some prefer Mindslaver, because in the middle of the game it actually does something. One issue people always have with the deck is doing something when you have 8-11 mana. You're not quite at Emrakul but you're deep enough into the game that you would rather not keep durdling. If you didn't Gifts combo, you're sort of just twiddling your thumbs and just going through the motions, stopping them while getting more mana. Realistically speaking, you're going to play Wurmcoil or Batterskull while there's Tron active. Sphinx's for 3, for example, is still okay. It comes down to personal preference really, Wurmcoil main is reasonable. I find that earlier in the game, Wurmcoil is better, but later in the game, Sphinx's is better. I also find Sphinx's is better in more matchups, since it doesn't die to Path and isn't useless against combo.
Gideon wouldn't be that bad I suppose. I was actually a fan of it in UWR Control, the card performed adequately. That said, that deck was better equipped to handle an influx of creatures and protect Gideon. I suppose he could warrant some testing.
I have noticed that this deck does not interact with the opponent, has anyone thought about cut expedition map as in previous versions of tron and put more interactive cards ?
The problem with cutting Maps is that you still actually need to get Tron online. The deck simply functions much better that way. I've seen as low as two, and I'd always play at least 1 just for the value. This isn't a new issue with the deck though, it has always been a problem. It's why I don't like playing more Signets.
I thought playing 23 lands + 4 Azorius signet + 3 Expedition maps, but if we count we have 23 lands + 4 signet+3 Expedition+ 1 Unburial rites +1 Crucible of worlds, 32 dead cards, I would like add more interactive cards. I have thought cutting Expedition map because, in this deck, Tron active is not so important as the old versions.
The problem is honestly that the deck just doesn't have enough spaces to do everything it needs. It's probably the number one reason the deck isn't as good as it could be.
1. We need to run enough lands to guarantee we hit our first 4, or at least get to 4 mana on turn 3 or 4. We really don't want to miss our first 4 land drops. This involves us running a lot of lands, Signets, and Maps. Mostly on the lands though.
2. We are sort of forced to run all these cards that are potentially dead in some situations. We need to run the Unburial Rites, Crucible/Emrakul, Iona, Elesh Norn, etc. It adds up a lot. Even when you think about it, sometimes Map/Signet is a dead draw.
3. While Tron isn't as important here as other Tron decks, we still need to get it online at some point. You won't win without it and Map guarantees a land much easier. In the late game it's useful to find Academy Ruins or Eye of Ugin. Ultimately speaking, you're going to have to find some way to get to them. We really don't want to just wait around until it happens, the idea is that we, in a reasonable amount of time, will just end the game.
I'm going down to two Expedition Maps and cutting all the Wrath-effects.
What exactly makes Wrath bad? It's really good against Pod, which is extremely popular right now.
Wrath effects saved my bacon at FNM last week and helped me go 4-0. The death and taxes deck I played in the finals would have taken me out for sure but I hit Day of Judgment then Wrath of God to clear out all the Splicers and Restos. I will run the wrath package for as long as I run this deck most likely.
I would definitely not cut the wraths and play no less then 3 maps. Gerry thompson insists on 4 maps and said LSV is wrong for playing only 3. Signets and talismens help u cast your interactive spells and once again on t2 they allow for a t3 gifts which just wins itself against some decks. Although I like having 2 wraths main, I dont think wrath is that strong against pod as they have persist creatures and if u have to tap a bunch of mana on your main phase they could do an indtant speed combo with chord. I think its fine against poD but not as amazing as darksteel88 is suggesting imo.
I sort of understand where the "not enough interactive cards" is coming from. But thats the cost of having a combo engine in your deck. The gifts combo on t3 or t4 instantly kills lots of decks especially in game 1. Iona on red against storm, elesh norn or iona on green vs pod early, iona on blue against twin. Elesh norn against affinity, to name some of the popular decks. So I think its unfair if u consider these cards and the cards that support it not interactice. Sure on turn 8 if u draw a signet then its not the best. Pure control ddcks such as uwr have way more interactice spells whereas full combo decks such as scapeshift or rg tron have way lwss. Uw tron is a combo/control deck so it is in the middle. If u dont like the combo aspect and want more interaction, instead of cutting maps and signets, I suggest u to play another deck.
The problem is just that you have chances to draw them when they're straight up dead, which is bad for us. Like sure, you can turn 3 combo, but you could also opening hand draw Unburial Rites and just not even combo off. Basically, you have a higher probability of drawing a card that does nothing for you in the current situation.
Wraths aren't necessarily bad, but a little too clunky in some match ups. I've cut Supreme Verdict and Cyclonic Rift from my GP Minneapolis list. Here's what I'm probably playing into the Modern PTQ season.
I just wanted to update this forum with my latest thoughts on some cards after some more testing.
1) A lot of lists run a 1 of oblivion ring in the main as a 3 mana catch all. while this does not sound terrible (I played this for almost half a year now), I was just thinking that its not really that useful. In MOST matchups, things we want to kill are mainly creatures and oring does not interact at instant speed against pod/twin. I have now cut this from the deck in favor of snapcaster mage to test it. Just to have another instant speed interaction.
2) Some lists are playing 1+ timely reinforcements in the main. I can't stress how impressed I am with this card. Against creature based matchups which put some pressure on your life total, this card is obviously very good. Some examples include affinity, zoo, pod, u/r delver variants. However against decks playing red or have an beatdown/combo game plans such as tarmo twin, pod, U/W/R control/midrange, I found timely to be very good. Since UWR control can't beat emrakul in the late game, many of my opponents decided to do an "aggro" playstyle focusing on attacking my life with clique, colonnade, snapcaster and lightning bolts. Timely is once again very good in this matchup, as it allows you to live through more burn spells. The same applies when playing against twin and pod where they have the ability to combo you, but also just beat you down with creatures and bolts (in twin). I would definitely run at least 1 timely in the main deck.
I am currently testing a list very close to the one darksteel88 plays in his primer. Everything else is exactly the same (in the main deck) with the exception of:
oring out for cyclonic rift
Sphinx's revelation for timely reinforcements
supreme verdict for batterskull
Last week I ran Esper Gifts and it went pretty well but I missed the late game Emmy drop. Here is the final list with SB I'll be running:
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Snapcaster Mage
4x Gifts Ungiven
4x Thirst for Knowledge
4x Path to Exile
3x Condescend
3x Remand
3x Azorius Signet
3x Expedition Map
1x Day of Judgment
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Wrath of God
1x Timely Reinforcements
1x Unburial Rites
1x Oblivion Ring
1x Mana Leak
3x Seachrome Coast
3x Celestial Colonnade
4x Urza's Tower
4x Urza's Mine
4x Urza's Power Plant
1x Island
1x Plains
1x Eye of Ugin
Sideboard
1x Wurmcoil Engine
1x Stoney Silence
1x Disenchant
1x Detention Sphere
2x Celestial Purge
2x Spell Snare
1x Spell Pierce
1x Dispel
2x Spellskite
1x Relic of Progenitus
I'm excited to try it out.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
Yeah, I know at least one person is bringing Storm, since I'm urging my friend to come who wants to play Storm. Aside from that though, we had a lot of Storm when it was a really good deck, so I expect some now. At least enough for me to board one card. It's not that much worse that I'm concerned.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
Went 4-0 and took first at FNM tonight, 26 total players.
I made a ton of play mistakes just due to not paying attention. 2 games were against silly home brews (one token populate one actually stole a game from me) the other two were more interesting.
Round 2 was against a Mill deck (yeah yeah I know) but it was actually really good. I got him game 1 because he couldn't deal with Emrakul. Game 2 he got because with Emrakul's trigger on the stack he hit me with Crypt Incursion and I was tapped out. Game 3 I knew he was sitting on Crypt Incursion and Surgical Extraction, which if he resolved I would likely lose. We go to turns. On turn 3 (my turn) he mills and hits Emrakul. I ask for responses and he flashes in Snapcaster, targeting Crypt Incursion. He targeted that instead of Extraction since he was dead on board due to two Celestial Colonnades activating next turn. I have just enough mana to Snapcaster and Condescend for 4, winning
the game.
Round 4, the finals, against RW Hatebears (he had red for Bolt and Helix, it was a good deck).
Game 1 I won off the back of Iona naming White (I had to hardcast her with 5 life left). I figure if he draws bolt I'm dead but he had already used two, and I hadn't seen a Path yet, so I knew he probably had 1 in hand. Well turns out White was the right call and I stabilized and won with Iona and Colonnade.
Games 2 I board:
- 1 Emrakul
- 1 Eye of Ugin
- 1 Remand
- 1 Azorius Signet
+ 1 Wurmcoil Engine
+ 1 Timely Reinforcements
+ 1 Disenchant
+ 1 Detention Sphere
He does an early 9 damage, I get Iona out naming White. Next turn I play Wurmcoil and swing with Iona. I am down to 5 life again. I draw Timely Reinforcements and he scoops. i have literally never beaten this guy ever, so I was stoked.
It was also enough to win the whole thing (this was my first time winning FNM).
Oh and before the night started I beat Infect 2-1, which was awesome.
Round 1:
G1:
I play against Eggs, which I'm surprised since it's not a deck anymore. I get off an early Gifts naming white, and he can't find the Echoing Truth in time, though I had a Condescend in hand for it and Tron active.
Sideboard:
+1 Rule of Law
+1 Dispel
+2 Negate
+2 Relic
+1 Suppression Field
+1 Disenchant
-1 Elesh Norn
-3 Wrath
-4 Path
Pretty much they play no creatures. In hindsight the Suppression Field hits almost nothing, but I have dead cards.
G2:
I basically draw a ton of counters and Gifts. I had Negates and stuff ready and cast Emrakul with a Remand and Negate in hand.
Record: 1-1
Round 2:
G1:
I'm up against Jund, which is always a decent enough matchup. I get to an Elesh Norn fairly early and he was sort of exhausted out of resources. I didn't fetch for it, just hard cast. He ended up just losing to it after taking 10 twice with my Colonnade.
G2:
I had early Tron with a Wurmcoil on turn 4. He drew Slaughter Pact off a Bob and then an Abrupt Decay for the Deathtouch token. After that I basically drew nothing all game. He eventually had double Goyf in play and ran me over.
G3:
I knew my opponent was pretty bad after the first game, so he let me cast Snapcaster -> Condescend while he had Ooze + mana up. Still, this game is hard. This game proved to be exactly why I don't like Supreme Verdict. I had it in hand all game and never hit a third U/W source. He had no cards left and 3 creatures in play, plus a Lili which I had a Colonnade for. I could have won that game if I had drawn it, that's basically it. I had like 6 turns to draw one too, never happened. Supreme Verdict is hard to cast.
Record: 1-1
Round 3:
G1:
I'm up against UR Delver. I suspected it was USA Control from the player, but I guess not. He had an early Lavamancer and then a Clique to get what he needed out of my hand. He Spell Pierced both my Gifts, it was just not meant to be.
G2:
Game two had Elesh Norn, and two attacks for 10 with Colonnade were brutal. I had the Dispel when he tried to Vapor Snag it, nothing he could do.
G3:
I drew 3 Signets, a Map, and a Gifts, the rest were lands. All my mana cards resolved but the Gifts didn't. There was a reasonable chance I could win if I had more time, but with him resolving a turn 2 Delver and flipping it on turn 3, the clock was there. He also resolved Magus of the Moon that I couldn't answer. The game ended with double Bolt, Snapcaster -> Bolt.
Record: 1-2 drop
I don't particularly think it was a bad deck for the tournament, I just rolled really poorly. I didn't win a dice roll, rolling two Snake Eyes as well. I also got really unlucky with the Supreme Verdict. I'm still not convinced it's a good card for this deck, it's really bad when it's bad, and you need it to be cast a lot of the time.
There was also apparently another UW Tron player, which took me by surprise. Everyone there knows there's only two of us who've ever played this deck, and the other guy doesn't come around much anymore, so it's basically just me. All the regulars know it too. I thought it was pretty cool someone else had it.
Gonna try my hand at Twin now, I borrowed the necessary cards for it so we'll see how that goes. I think the deck's much better than this, even if I like this deck a lot.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
Melira Pod, 2-0
Melira Pod, 2-0
Merfolk, 2-0
UB Faeries, 2-0
Jund, 2-0 (concession)
Day 1
Bye, 2-0
Bye, 2-0
Merfolk, 0-2
Mono Blue Ninja Bear Delver, 0-2
UR Delver, 2-1
Mono Green Devotion, 2-1
Storm, 1-2
The Merfolk and Ninja deck are actually just terrible matchups. Merfolk had the nuts both games one and two -- fast clock backed by light permission, Spreading Seas and Tectonic Edge. The Ninja deck stops us from doing everything and beats us down with a one drop. Against Ninjas, I had about 15 lands in play and couldn't draw anything to close out the game. Lost game three to storm when I had to mull to 5 and Ghost Quarter my own land to cast Ethersworn Canonist on turn two.
Overall, I'd say I had some bad beats, but I'd definitely play the deck again.
Standard
UGRB Emerge
Modern
U Tron
Legacy
UWBRG The E.P.I.C. Storm
LSV, Gerry Thompson and Reid Duke are all playing the "5th signet" or talisman in their maindeck. I feel this is correct, it is not only for fixing the colors, but rather being able to use unburial rites gifts combo 1 turn earlier against some decks is very very crucial.
I also like to have 1 timely reinforcements in the main or possibly more then one because its VERY VERY good in the decks that its good against. I don't like having supreme verdict in the main because you often want to cast it on turn 4 or 5 against the decks that its good against, and our decks mana simply does not allow us to do this often.
I am unsure about snapcaster in the main. it costs a lot of mana and doubles the color requirement of the original spell, although i can see it being good sometimes.
Sphinx's revelation also seems to be a so-so card that im not too sure about. when you have tron its obviously quite good, but earlier in the it cost 3 color requirements and since our decklist isn't focused on having tron early, im not sure if i would want this card. I might just want to play wurmcoil or batterskull over it.
Any thoughts on playing 1 gideon jura either in the main or the side? I feel its very very good against the creature matchups, stalls the game for a long time and saves you tons of life, it can also hit for 6 after you have stablized teh board. It also seems to be a good combo with wraths and timely as you can force them to attack and trade with timely tokens. it is also castable without tron only and it costs double white so u can cast it off 2 colored lands (if you dont have a signet).
Any thoughts on any of my points?
also, do people perfer the mindslaver lock combo or emrakul as a finisher? im unsure which "version" is better
Supreme Verdict is better than Gideon.
Standard
UGRB Emerge
Modern
U Tron
Legacy
UWBRG The E.P.I.C. Storm
While the Talisman isn't wrong to use, I've always felt like the deck had a high count of "dead" draws. 25 lands + 4 Signet + 3 Map, that's a lot of cards that actually don't do anything. When you add in cards like Emrakul or Unburial Rites to the mix, it's a lot of cards. When you have something like a 50% chance to draw dead in a situation, it's not exactly warming. It's why I don't run the Talisman, I'd rather have the slot actually do something. In my tournament, I had a lot of times where I wanted a real card and drew something dead.
Our mana doesn't allow you to cast Supreme Verdict when you want to ever, at least not reliably. While Timely is certainly a lot easier to cast, the Verdict is quite often just better. I've had mixed results with it, and I think ultimately I was right the first time, it's unreliable. The issue is still that you would prefer a Wrath, and since everything costs 5 or WWU, it doesn't really matter. Verdict is about as easy to cast as Hallowed Burial given that the colour is made up for by the extra one mana. So ultimately I think Verdict is the best option. It's perfectly reasonable to want it to be a Timely, but I find Timely isn't as good in the format right now. Zoo isn't a deck, and Melira Pod is. I'm also much happier that I have Verdict against Geist or Goyf.
Snapcaster is a bit on the expensive side, and falls a bit into the pitfall Verdict does. Being able to block is real though, as is flashing back a Path. While I didn't like it when I first tested it, more testing proved otherwise. I think the utility the deck gains is overall pretty good. The fact that sometimes you're flashing back Path means a Signet is fine, and even if you're flashing back Remand, it's two lands if you have no Signet. It's a tad on the slower side, but what are you going to do, cast Repeal for x=2 instead? It's not really any cheaper, just easier on the mana. But if you're imagining casting Remand/Signet on turn 2, turn 3 is really the only turn Snapcaster doesn't hit anything. I feel like if you're flashing back Wrath or Day, at 6 mana you likely have a Signet at which point the colours aren't going to bother you. I think ultimately, I'm happy because the deck doesn't run enough spells that actually interact. 4 Path, 4 Remand, 1 Condescend, and 3 Wraths. That's 12 spells, which is much less than something like UWR Control runs. Having the flexibility to decide whether you want Gifts or Path or whatever in a situation is great, as is another card to fetch from Gifts.
Most decks agree they want something in the middle of the game. Some decks run Ulamog, some run Batterskull/Wurmcoil, I've seen some go to Karn. This is also why some prefer Mindslaver, because in the middle of the game it actually does something. One issue people always have with the deck is doing something when you have 8-11 mana. You're not quite at Emrakul but you're deep enough into the game that you would rather not keep durdling. If you didn't Gifts combo, you're sort of just twiddling your thumbs and just going through the motions, stopping them while getting more mana. Realistically speaking, you're going to play Wurmcoil or Batterskull while there's Tron active. Sphinx's for 3, for example, is still okay. It comes down to personal preference really, Wurmcoil main is reasonable. I find that earlier in the game, Wurmcoil is better, but later in the game, Sphinx's is better. I also find Sphinx's is better in more matchups, since it doesn't die to Path and isn't useless against combo.
Gideon wouldn't be that bad I suppose. I was actually a fan of it in UWR Control, the card performed adequately. That said, that deck was better equipped to handle an influx of creatures and protect Gideon. I suppose he could warrant some testing.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
The problem with cutting Maps is that you still actually need to get Tron online. The deck simply functions much better that way. I've seen as low as two, and I'd always play at least 1 just for the value. This isn't a new issue with the deck though, it has always been a problem. It's why I don't like playing more Signets.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
The problem is honestly that the deck just doesn't have enough spaces to do everything it needs. It's probably the number one reason the deck isn't as good as it could be.
1. We need to run enough lands to guarantee we hit our first 4, or at least get to 4 mana on turn 3 or 4. We really don't want to miss our first 4 land drops. This involves us running a lot of lands, Signets, and Maps. Mostly on the lands though.
2. We are sort of forced to run all these cards that are potentially dead in some situations. We need to run the Unburial Rites, Crucible/Emrakul, Iona, Elesh Norn, etc. It adds up a lot. Even when you think about it, sometimes Map/Signet is a dead draw.
3. While Tron isn't as important here as other Tron decks, we still need to get it online at some point. You won't win without it and Map guarantees a land much easier. In the late game it's useful to find Academy Ruins or Eye of Ugin. Ultimately speaking, you're going to have to find some way to get to them. We really don't want to just wait around until it happens, the idea is that we, in a reasonable amount of time, will just end the game.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
Standard
UGRB Emerge
Modern
U Tron
Legacy
UWBRG The E.P.I.C. Storm
What exactly makes Wrath bad? It's really good against Pod, which is extremely popular right now.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
Wrath effects saved my bacon at FNM last week and helped me go 4-0. The death and taxes deck I played in the finals would have taken me out for sure but I hit Day of Judgment then Wrath of God to clear out all the Splicers and Restos. I will run the wrath package for as long as I run this deck most likely.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
4 Urza's Tower
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Mine
3 Seachrome Coast
2 Academy Ruins
2 Celestial Colonnade
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Godless Shrine
1 Island
1 Plains
2 Creatures
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
4 Remand
4 Condescend
4 Gifts Ungiven
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Path to Exile
4 Azorius Signet
2 Expedition Map
1 Repeal
1 Batterskull
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Mindslaver
1 Unburial Rites
1 Day of Judgement
1 Wrath of God
3 Spreading Seas
1 Terastodon
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Negate
1 Celestial Purge
1 Disenchant
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Spellskite
1 Torpor Orb
1 Luminarch Ascension
1 Jester's Cap
Standard
UGRB Emerge
Modern
U Tron
Legacy
UWBRG The E.P.I.C. Storm
1) A lot of lists run a 1 of oblivion ring in the main as a 3 mana catch all. while this does not sound terrible (I played this for almost half a year now), I was just thinking that its not really that useful. In MOST matchups, things we want to kill are mainly creatures and oring does not interact at instant speed against pod/twin. I have now cut this from the deck in favor of snapcaster mage to test it. Just to have another instant speed interaction.
2) Some lists are playing 1+ timely reinforcements in the main. I can't stress how impressed I am with this card. Against creature based matchups which put some pressure on your life total, this card is obviously very good. Some examples include affinity, zoo, pod, u/r delver variants. However against decks playing red or have an beatdown/combo game plans such as tarmo twin, pod, U/W/R control/midrange, I found timely to be very good. Since UWR control can't beat emrakul in the late game, many of my opponents decided to do an "aggro" playstyle focusing on attacking my life with clique, colonnade, snapcaster and lightning bolts. Timely is once again very good in this matchup, as it allows you to live through more burn spells. The same applies when playing against twin and pod where they have the ability to combo you, but also just beat you down with creatures and bolts (in twin). I would definitely run at least 1 timely in the main deck.
I am currently testing a list very close to the one darksteel88 plays in his primer. Everything else is exactly the same (in the main deck) with the exception of:
oring out for cyclonic rift
Sphinx's revelation for timely reinforcements
supreme verdict for batterskull