Yeah...Uegjo is making a big case for the Devoted Druid combo for sure. Fatal push is just faster. Walking Ballista later is better; but an early fatal ouch can save a game vs things like burn, infect, storm, etc.
_______
That Mirror Gallery idea looks like a blast :). Multiple Nykthos would certainly get out of hand
_____
Yeah...I’d like to get a little more removal in there. I’ve been leaning on the Hace bounce and Ballista for game one creature interaction (and then of course Courser and Hydra to block/outclass body sizes)...but I don need to find more efficient removal early in the board if this shows up as an issue in testing.
Primer will finally be up tonight! Added the most recent unban (even though thus far it has only effected Walker builds).
I do think the Grull deck could be something (in terms of pure aggression) with the Liege, BTE, Xenagos, Bloodbraid, etc. the Devotion aspect would be for Wolf Run and Banefire. Something like this:
It’s likely weak to boardwipes; but that is what you give up for aggression/speed.
_____
Uegjo’s list was posted on Wizards site. It’s his same list (a few small changes) with a black and white splash and the Devoted Druid Combo...this is something that we are a GREAT shell for. It is something I’ve added to the Primer as one of the “main” Devotion decks.
________
An update in the Simic Walker Deck:
I am still above an 75% match win rate right now (which is better than normal for me) but it is normalizing a bit from where it started. I assume after amome testing it will drop a little more (especially after everyone has begun to account for Jace.)
The deck essentially wins just by burning the opponent in cards. I added a Cloudstone Curio (as it can infinite with Kiora (or Garruk) with another Walker...it is just a great way to finish the game rather than waiting a couple turns (and is not completely dead by itself given the many ETB effects and walkers).
Since you mentioned MTGO, there's one Green-Blue list in there that's super interesting. I know it's not exactly Devotion and more straight up Ramp but when do you ever get to talk about Polymorph Combo?
Hi everyone! Long time lurker here but first time to post. I have been playing devotion for over a year and stopped abit. I’ve been using tooth and nail variation. My list involves..
Creatures:
4x voyaging satyr
4x arbor elf
2x eternal witness
1x hornet queen
1x emrakul the aeons of torn
1x xenagos, god of revels
1x acidic slime
1x scavenging ooze
1x polukranos, world eater
1x primeval titan
Spells:
4x tooth and nail
2x primal command
2x harmonize
Enchantments:
4x overgrowth
4x utopia sprawl
Planeswalker:
4x garruk wildspeaker
Lands:
1x kessig wolf run
4x nykthos, shrine to nix
2x stomping ground
4x wooded foothills
2x windswept heath
9x forests
Sb:
4x blood moon
4x beast within
2x creeping corrosion
2x kitchen finks
1x ruric thar, the unbowed
2x relic of progenitus
As i’ve been playing this deck the set up takes longer. I’ve been reading your tooth and nail variation rendroc and your list is very interesting. I also like winning with many wincons as possible. Is the tooth and nail consistent enough with utopia sprawl, arbor elf and bop?
Hi maxivz! Thanks for the welcome. How’s the 4x primal command going for you? I’ve tried the same before but instead of drawing tooth and nails i get primal commands. I’ve tried oath of nissa before but it’s a bit clunky when i use it on tooth and nail as it goes down to my library. I like to use prime time also to pound ppl. Lmao. I think for your second deck it would be hard to use devoted druid and vizier. Too much combos i guess. I’ve used temur sabretooth before and i didn’t like the interaction maybe i was playing it wrong or it seemed to slow.
Primer will be up shortly...removing two things now to make the formatting correct. I'll post when it is up.
_____
Here is where the Simic Deck is at...It has been performing extremely well. I think it will be a few weeks until the meta shakes out to know exactly where this stands; but right now it feels like a very good deck.
@Bearbrax Welcome to the thread! Always nice to see other Tooth and Nail players.
4x Blood Moon in board looks super fun, for everyone except your opponents. I run three right now, have been thinking about a fourth. Would you recommend that change?
For reference, here's my current list. My take on T+N is more midrangey, sacrificing some explosiveness for more resilience to disruption. The sideboard is very WIP, cards i might want to test on a whim.
A strength of Green Devotion, that not many other decks in the format have, is access to 3 mana on turn 2. My list tries to take advantage of that to the fullest, with Nissa, Tracker (as maxivz said, the card is great), Finks, and Blood Moon as a suite of efficient threats to deploy early. Often, an opponent's shields are down, especially if you're on the play and they cast anything on their turn 1. This is the perfect time to jam a planeswalker or lock them out with a moon.
I would recommend more than one titan. He is ramp to 9 and a game-ender in one card, that can also fetch up more huge creatures with treetop village and wolf run. I run all 4 and have been very happy with them
@aethelianmage tnx for the welcome. I used the 4 blood moons when i faced collected company deck won a few games because of mana disruption it doesn’t really affect us that much being a ramp deck and all but i think 3 should be enough. Almost all the decks in modern are laid to waste whne you surprise them with blood moon except rdw. i think its a waste of sb space for me to bring 4. I haven’t tried tracker though it should be a good card to use. I need to get ballista it’s a good sub for polukanos. Thanks for the feedback. Btw, have you tried putting courser in your current deck instead of finks. Just a thought i think it has more value in the deck.
-1 Fertile Ground, +1 Walking Ballista: Fertile Ground is sided out extremely frequently. Walking Ballista gives me a way to deal with go-wide creature decks. Still not 100% on the change but I'll see with more testing.
The sideboard + white splash: I wanted to have more answers that could be tutored with Primal Command. Eidolon of Rhetoric helps with the Storm and Ad Nauseam matchups. Kataki is tutorable artifact hate, as is Reclamation Sage (Qasali Pridemage or Acidic Slime may be better here). Hallowed Moonlight replaced bolts, as I have Walking Ballista mainboard and I don't side in bolts super frequently. It helps shore up matchups such as CoCo, Dredge, Breach, Kikichord, Goryo, and Mardu Pyromancer (to a lesser degree, stopping 2-3 tokens is at least SOMETHING considering we have to side out the combo in this matchup).
On a random note, Panglacial Wurm is nuts in Tooth & Nail. Unlike other Gx devotion decks, which have consistency issues hitting 7 mana, Tooth & Nail has 7 mana by turn 4, and being able to flash this guy off of a fetch wins me so many rounds. Plus, he's better than Emrakul in a few scenarios (they've gone wide with spirit tokens or Birds of Paradise). He has single-handedly shored up the biggest weakness of the deck by being flood insurance.
Depending upon how bad the Jace decks turn out to be, I may end up finding a slot for Thrun, the Last Troll. However, Primal Command works fine against Jace in theory by placing him on top then shuffling their graveyard into their library, effectively burying him, ruining their brainstorm, and getting rid of snapcaster targets. I'll see how it goes.
@maxivz I looked at your list and, while I do sometimes have to mulligan 5, you're having to mulligan way more often than I do because you're so light on ramp and because of your manabase. Ideally, you'll want around 16-17 ramp cards (not including planeswalkers). I'd highly recommend finding room for 4x Overgrowth and 2x Voyaging Satyr in your list. Secondly, while I see why you're doing the Knight of the Reliquary plan, you're hurting yourself so much in the early turns. You really want an untapped green source on your first turn, yet I only see 13 in your manabase. I've minimized the number of non-green sources in my list to just Nykthos and Kessig for this reason.
EDIT:
After some testing, Thrun is starting to look at a lot nicer. Grixis Control isn't the easiest matchup unless we're fast. Also, Hallowed Moonlight is a bad card and I'll likely swap it out for Grafdigger's Cage.
Hey I used to work on this deck back when it started (look in the first few pages and you'll see me posting quite much) I really love how the deck improoved over the years I've been gone.I'll do some testing and see what I come up with and post.
The creatures could be dropped in at instant speed using chord of calling maybe?
I've got most of the core cards for the straight up devotion list and I'm trying to figure out what way to take the build from here.
If anyone has tried the above ramp/land destruction strategy, how did it work? Did you use most of or any at all of the above mentioned creatures and cards?
Did I miss any relevant "non creature permanant " destroyers?
Ilove that this thread is so long. Lots of good info. Thanks to everyone who has contributed. Thanks in advance for constructive criticism on my idea.
Hi everyone! As i’ve been testing also i think the stable mana ramps for tooth and nail would be the overgrowth satyr like french said. I like the panglacial wurm idea also really gives a surprise while fetching.
@thor i think balancing between aggro and land destuction would be hard. I’ve seen some rg ponza that do land destruction though. I’m not a big fan of it though.
Also, you can use Gearhulk to remove persist counters from Kitchen Finks. Gearhulk, might be a great option.
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LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
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_______
That Mirror Gallery idea looks like a blast :). Multiple Nykthos would certainly get out of hand
_____
Yeah...I’d like to get a little more removal in there. I’ve been leaning on the Hace bounce and Ballista for game one creature interaction (and then of course Courser and Hydra to block/outclass body sizes)...but I don need to find more efficient removal early in the board if this shows up as an issue in testing.
I do think the Grull deck could be something (in terms of pure aggression) with the Liege, BTE, Xenagos, Bloodbraid, etc. the Devotion aspect would be for Wolf Run and Banefire. Something like this:
4x Arbor Elf
3x Bird of Paradise
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
4x Boggart Ram-Gang
4x Boartusk Liege
4x Bloodbraid Elf
3x Garruk Wildspeaker
3x Xenagos the Reveler
Enchantment
4x Utopia Sprawl
Instant/Sorcery
3x Banefire
4x Lightning Bolt
6x Green Fetch
4x Stomping Ground
6x Forest
3x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1x Kessig Wolf Run
It’s likely weak to boardwipes; but that is what you give up for aggression/speed.
_____
Uegjo’s list was posted on Wizards site. It’s his same list (a few small changes) with a black and white splash and the Devoted Druid Combo...this is something that we are a GREAT shell for. It is something I’ve added to the Primer as one of the “main” Devotion decks.
________
An update in the Simic Walker Deck:
I am still above an 75% match win rate right now (which is better than normal for me) but it is normalizing a bit from where it started. I assume after amome testing it will drop a little more (especially after everyone has begun to account for Jace.)
The deck essentially wins just by burning the opponent in cards. I added a Cloudstone Curio (as it can infinite with Kiora (or Garruk) with another Walker...it is just a great way to finish the game rather than waiting a couple turns (and is not completely dead by itself given the many ETB effects and walkers).
I’ll post more tonight after testing.!
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Nissa, Vital Force
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Call of the Herd
4 Explore
1 Farseek
4 Polymorph
4 Search for Tomorrow
2 Cyclonic Rift
1 Batterskull
3 Proteus Staff
4 Utopia Sprawl
2 Blinkmoth Nexus
3 Breeding Pool
6 Forest
1 Island
4 Khalni Garden
1 Lumbering Falls
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Mutavault
1 Treetop Village
1 Creeping Corrosion
1 Dismember
1 Elderscale Wurm
1 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
1 Nature's Claim
2 Negate
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Sagu Mauler
1 Sentinel Totem
1 Terastodon
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
It's basically Tooth and Nailless Tooth and Nail
Creatures:
4x voyaging satyr
4x arbor elf
2x eternal witness
1x hornet queen
1x emrakul the aeons of torn
1x xenagos, god of revels
1x acidic slime
1x scavenging ooze
1x polukranos, world eater
1x primeval titan
Spells:
4x tooth and nail
2x primal command
2x harmonize
Enchantments:
4x overgrowth
4x utopia sprawl
Planeswalker:
4x garruk wildspeaker
Lands:
1x kessig wolf run
4x nykthos, shrine to nix
2x stomping ground
4x wooded foothills
2x windswept heath
9x forests
Sb:
4x blood moon
4x beast within
2x creeping corrosion
2x kitchen finks
1x ruric thar, the unbowed
2x relic of progenitus
As i’ve been playing this deck the set up takes longer. I’ve been reading your tooth and nail variation rendroc and your list is very interesting. I also like winning with many wincons as possible. Is the tooth and nail consistent enough with utopia sprawl, arbor elf and bop?
_____
Here is where the Simic Deck is at...It has been performing extremely well. I think it will be a few weeks until the meta shakes out to know exactly where this stands; but right now it feels like a very good deck.
Simic Walker Devotion
4x Arbor Elf
3x Birds of Paradise
3x Sylvan Caryatid
2x Elvish Visionary
4x Courser of Kruphix
1x Polukranos, World Eater
2x Acidic Slime
2x Walking Ballista
4x Utopia Sprawl
3x Oath of Nissa
1x Cloudstone Curio
Planeswalker (10)
2x Nissa, Steward of Elements
3x Kiora, Master of the Depths
1x Garruk Wildspeaker
3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Nissa, Vital Force
7x Green Fetch Land
3x Breeding Pool
1x Stoming Ground
6x Forest
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
Will post sideboard after Primer
4x Blood Moon in board looks super fun, for everyone except your opponents. I run three right now, have been thinking about a fourth. Would you recommend that change?
For reference, here's my current list. My take on T+N is more midrangey, sacrificing some explosiveness for more resilience to disruption. The sideboard is very WIP, cards i might want to test on a whim.
4 Arbor Elf
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
4 Primeval Titan
4 Tooth and Nail
1 Xenagos, God of Revels
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Walking Ballista
3 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
4 Tireless Tracker
3 Kitchen Finks
1 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Windswept Heath
3 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
1 Treetop Village
7 Forest
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Kozilek's Return
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Ancient Grudge
1 World Breaker
3 Blood Moon
2 Banefire
1 Dragonlord Dromoka
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Emrakul, the Promised End
A strength of Green Devotion, that not many other decks in the format have, is access to 3 mana on turn 2. My list tries to take advantage of that to the fullest, with Nissa, Tracker (as maxivz said, the card is great), Finks, and Blood Moon as a suite of efficient threats to deploy early. Often, an opponent's shields are down, especially if you're on the play and they cast anything on their turn 1. This is the perfect time to jam a planeswalker or lock them out with a moon.
I would recommend more than one titan. He is ramp to 9 and a game-ender in one card, that can also fetch up more huge creatures with treetop village and wolf run. I run all 4 and have been very happy with them
For future reference:
[deck.]
4 [card.]abrade[/card.]
[/deck.]
remove all the periods from the above to get
it wouldnt let me show the plain text without the random periods. its a bit visually jarring, sorry.
@curdbros I have seen some people pretty down on JtMS. How has he been for you?
Finks is a recent addition to the main deck, but I like it so far.
Personally, I am not a fan of courser. It feels a little too low-impact, and doesn’t block particularly well in a meta full of 4/4 and 5/5.
I also like being able to reset finks with nissa’s -2
Here was my old Tooth & Nail list:
//16 Creature
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Hornet Queen
1 Primeval Titan
1 Xenagos, God of Revels
2 Birds of Paradise
2 Voyaging Satyr
3 Eternal Witness
4 Arbor Elf
1 Panglacial Wurm
//11 Enchantment
2 Blood Moon
4 Overgrowth
4 Utopia Sprawl
1 Fertile Ground
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
3 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Stomping Ground
10 Forest
2 Verdant Catacombs
//4 Planeswalker
1 Nissa, Worldwaker
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
//8 Sorcery
1 Harmonize
3 Primal Command
4 Tooth and Nail
1 Dragonlord Atarka
1 Obstinate Baloth
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thragtusk
1 Chameleon Colossus
1 Choke
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Nature's Claim
1 Bonfire of the Damned
1 Creeping Corrosion
2 Crumble to Dust
Here is my new list that I'm testing:
//
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Hornet Queen
1 Primeval Titan
1 Xenagos, God of Revels
1 Panglacial Wurm
2 Birds of Paradise
2 Voyaging Satyr
3 Eternal Witness
4 Arbor Elf
1 Walking Ballista
//10 Enchantment
2 Blood Moon
4 Overgrowth
4 Utopia Sprawl
1 Temple Garden
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Stomping Ground
9 Forest
//4 Planeswalker
1 Nissa, Worldwaker
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
//8 Sorcery
1 Harmonize
3 Primal Command
4 Tooth and Nail
1 Dragonlord Atarka
1 Obstinate Baloth
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Chameleon Colossus
1 Thragtusk
1 Choke
1 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Hallowed Moonlight
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Bonfire of the Damned
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
2 Crumble to Dust
Why the changes?
-1 Fertile Ground, +1 Walking Ballista: Fertile Ground is sided out extremely frequently. Walking Ballista gives me a way to deal with go-wide creature decks. Still not 100% on the change but I'll see with more testing.
The sideboard + white splash: I wanted to have more answers that could be tutored with Primal Command. Eidolon of Rhetoric helps with the Storm and Ad Nauseam matchups. Kataki is tutorable artifact hate, as is Reclamation Sage (Qasali Pridemage or Acidic Slime may be better here). Hallowed Moonlight replaced bolts, as I have Walking Ballista mainboard and I don't side in bolts super frequently. It helps shore up matchups such as CoCo, Dredge, Breach, Kikichord, Goryo, and Mardu Pyromancer (to a lesser degree, stopping 2-3 tokens is at least SOMETHING considering we have to side out the combo in this matchup).
On a random note, Panglacial Wurm is nuts in Tooth & Nail. Unlike other Gx devotion decks, which have consistency issues hitting 7 mana, Tooth & Nail has 7 mana by turn 4, and being able to flash this guy off of a fetch wins me so many rounds. Plus, he's better than Emrakul in a few scenarios (they've gone wide with spirit tokens or Birds of Paradise). He has single-handedly shored up the biggest weakness of the deck by being flood insurance.
Depending upon how bad the Jace decks turn out to be, I may end up finding a slot for Thrun, the Last Troll. However, Primal Command works fine against Jace in theory by placing him on top then shuffling their graveyard into their library, effectively burying him, ruining their brainstorm, and getting rid of snapcaster targets. I'll see how it goes.
Amulet Titan
BGx
Dredge
GDS
Hollow One
Living End
Mardu
Traverse Death's Shadow
with bloodbraid elf running around I'm having ideas of also running Dwynen's Elite in addition to it to take advantage of the uptick in elf count.
is it still devotion if I'm running Growing Rites of Itlimoc?
been considering splashing painlands for lingering souls to make the extra bodies to push for Growing Rites of Itlimoc to transform and then use it to power Rhonas the Indomitable/craterhoof behemoth
i'm taking a wierd approach to this because part of me didn't wanna end up building elves with it.
Minamo, School at Water's Edge
EDIT:
After some testing, Thrun is starting to look at a lot nicer. Grixis Control isn't the easiest matchup unless we're fast. Also, Hallowed Moonlight is a bad card and I'll likely swap it out for Grafdigger's Cage.
Amulet Titan
BGx
Dredge
GDS
Hollow One
Living End
Mardu
Traverse Death's Shadow
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
Sylvan primordial
terastodon Deus of calamity and / or acidic slime? A pilot could also add avalanche riders and a couple of stone rain.
The creatures could be dropped in at instant speed using chord of calling maybe?
I've got most of the core cards for the straight up devotion list and I'm trying to figure out what way to take the build from here.
If anyone has tried the above ramp/land destruction strategy, how did it work? Did you use most of or any at all of the above mentioned creatures and cards?
Did I miss any relevant "non creature permanant " destroyers?
Ilove that this thread is so long. Lots of good info. Thanks to everyone who has contributed. Thanks in advance for constructive criticism on my idea.
@thor i think balancing between aggro and land destuction would be hard. I’ve seen some rg ponza that do land destruction though. I’m not a big fan of it though.
I'm tempted to add it to the Ghalta, Primal Hunger devotion strategy.
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC