I jammed (mostly) legacy tonight but I got to jam a dozen games or so of Esper v Eldrazi Tron. It was extremely Grindy when I won, it was extremely fast when I lost. Very lopsided in truth. Because of cavern and wreckage I was never able to truly lock down the games, something I really struggled coming to terms with.
I've realized we really don't care about the Sol lands, more so about Cavern and Sea gate. At least that's been my experience. I'm one of those few that still jams 2 Ghost Quarter, so I've got an easier plan of attack than bouncing lands with Cryptic and making them Discard it.
What is the sideboard plan for E Tron that's been successful for you guys? Gideon Jura is great, I really like Thoughtseize so I have better information and I can rip big guys. Should I be pulling Negates out?
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IMO, I'd rather play 1 surgical 1 ravenous trap instead of 2 traps in a teachings deck. Flexibility is good.
I like pacts because you can, for example, flashback teachings for a hard counter when you only have 6 lands. Yea, tapping out does kind of suck, but its better than losing.
I'll grant that slaughter pact has seen better days though.
I do think you need more hard counters though. Whether thats dissolve, disallow, pact, cryptic, whatever. I think you need soemthing.
Otherwise, all of your answers make sense.
Against eldrazi tron, I have 2 gq, they have 2 lands I care about (cavern/SGW). Don't quarter tron lands/sol lands, except in rare circumstances.
Some versions of eldrazi tron play ugin/karn/batterskull/etc. Negate is pretty good here. Some play ulamog and co. Negate isn't so good.
I usually board in a couple of thoughtseize, but not all of them, just to fill slots based on what I'm cutting. I have snares and leyline and stuff main, so I've got more to cut though.
Jura/elspeth/BSA are all good against eldrazi tron.
Runed halo, blessed alliance, wraths, etc, are all good too.
I don't run Pushes in the main. I leave in Paths, TTs, Charms, Cryptics, Verdicts, and the payoff spells. Logic Knots are just not as beneficial against a big mana Cavern deck like ET, especially with all the little scions they tend to drop.
At least, that's my thought process. I haven't been playing the deck as long as some, and not at the level of some, but that's the theory behind it.
Wow, that Search for Azcanta is pretty powerful. I'm not sure this deck wants to be deploying 2 cmc threats at any stage of the game but it certainly has some raw power.
Amulet has some decent targets to copy on this deck, but the front side is too weak imo. Not enough of our spells benefit from the cost reduction, and 4 Mana at sorcery speed, it's probably that a planeswalker just be better.
Thaumatic Compass is interesting, we always want land drops and Maze of ith is obviously busted and exactly what this deck wants. But It doesn't provide any value until you've sunk at least 5 Mana into, and finding the spare 3 Mana in the first few turns will be tough.
Search seems very strong to me. Won't take much to flip it, and in the mean time it fixes your draw and fuels delve. Once it flips, it's obviously absurd. The fact that the transformers trigger is a may also means that the second copy isn't completely dead.
IMO compass is not modern playable, requiring 7 lands before its relevant is too much of a dealbreaker for "just" a maze of ith.
Search for azcanta is cool, but I don't think we play it.
Some kind of esper midrange deck (thoughtscour, tasigur, lingering souls, baby jace, etc, think something vaguely resembling those old esper transcendent lists, but actually good) might make us of it. (Or really, U/B/X, so grixis or sultai potentially.)
Coupled with opt, it might legit be a sort of "engine" for some decks. I suspect the goyro's decks will play it, but it seems promising enough for fair decks too.
He mentioned a while ago that he would be busy/gone for a while, which I assume is currently happening.
Hopefully he'll find the time to check in soon.
Ya I hadn't him in chat a few weeks back he mentioned he was bogged down with work so hopefully it lets up soon, gonna be a great fall I think with opt being a much needed tool.
Also enjoyed a great match this afternoon against ari lax, he was playing amulet which I hate as a deck just cause it has way to many triggers and such ok modo for my liking but g1 he got when I drew lots of mana and then no counters.
G2 I open with 6 lands esper charm and proceed to see 5-6 more lands after a snap charm and finally get enough stuff to battle when the dudes come, he had me scared when I had a cryptic and logic with 6 mana he resolved a green pact and found ruric thar and had the cavern to go along with it, proceeded to rip a verdict like a boss. It was then a long slog fest with him resolving a titan and a thragtusk and I had to cryptic chain for a couple turns into Verdi and then rev for 7 and then 8 to stay alive but he eventually ran out of threats and scooped with a minute and half on clock, G3 I push his t3 tireless tracker into cryptic cryptic time out, it was super satisfying to beat name players even if it's only on modo.
Well, for me its those awkward few weeks where it feels like a waste to keep practicing until the new set drops so you can try new cards out (opt). Trying to make "ixalan" games feels awkward/derpy so just a lull in play.
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
So let's go back to the Ghost Quarter question. It seems there's a general consensus that Opt will move us to 25 lands. And there were some good points made about running 2 GQs for problem lands like Sea Gate Wreckage. Is that still viable with one land fewer? And would it require us to use or not use the filter lands to make sure we hit our colors/avoid colorless-screw?
Ghost quarter become significantly less viable with only 25 lands. I'm not sure there is a good way to play 2 gq and still keep comparable color requirements.
Filters are alright, but they don't make a terribly significant impact on "land math".
Time will tell, but for the moment, I'm still inclined to believe that opt won't actually be correct for this deck. Will be an interesting couple of weeks before anyone knows for certain though.
My guess is that full playset will eat too many slots for too little impact, but that two copies of opt will be very good and just cost you a land and a flex spot.
My turn one is often a colonnade or a tapped shock - so its not like I want more turn one plays necessarily. I look at opt as a way to use open lands more effectively turns 1-5 - and as mentioned earlier something else you can snapcaster cheaply to get a body on the board.
Will have to see though.
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
IMO, U/R/X draw-go is the "perfect" home for this deck.
U/W/X draw-go in probably second.
However, the perfect shell for tibalt doesn't play him because the card is bad. Just because we're one of the best decks for opt doesn't mean we actually want opt.
I do think its possible that some of us will play 2 in our flex slots if we wanted more cantrips, but again, time will tell how good the card actually is for us.
I've been on UW for awhile, but search for Azcanta is making me want to break out my esper charms. Everyone is talking about Opt, but only a little love for Azcanta?
FWIW, I think Opt is very good, but Serum is better. I do think esper is uniquely positioned to take full advantage of Opt though. How many times have you contemplated dropping Snapcaster for no value just to get a body on the board? Often it's for chumping, or trading with an X/2 or sometimes just to get a clock going. I'd say we want at least 3 Opt in the hopes of having the option of Snap-Opt in the mid-game. Not sure what to cut for it though, maybe 1 Serum, 1 land and something else?
Search for Azcanta just seems absurd though. It's exactly the type of 'threat' this deck wants. Usually we don't play permanents because the opportunity cost in tapping low and trying to protect those permanents is too hard. Search has neither of those issues. It Dodges almost all pre-board removal in the format (save Abrupt Decay and Detention Sphere) and provides us a way to fix our draws, fuel Snapcaster/logic knot and then eventually ramps and provides repeatable card advantage (and selection) at instant speed. The downside of it being legendary is mitigated a little by the fact that the flip trigger is a may, so once you flip one the second can chill on the battlefield just providing a little selection value at upkeep. I will admit that it seems poor against UW control, as it turns on Detention Sphere plus they have a million TecEdge/Ghost Quarters, but outside of that matchup I think card is exactly what we want. Is there really any we would rather be doing than activating Azcanta, Sunken Ruin EOT every turn?
**Edit - Just realized most of you guys aren't on Serum, not sure what to recommend for cuts for you guys then lol.
I've realized we really don't care about the Sol lands, more so about Cavern and Sea gate. At least that's been my experience. I'm one of those few that still jams 2 Ghost Quarter, so I've got an easier plan of attack than bouncing lands with Cryptic and making them Discard it.
What is the sideboard plan for E Tron that's been successful for you guys? Gideon Jura is great, I really like Thoughtseize so I have better information and I can rip big guys. Should I be pulling Negates out?
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I like pacts because you can, for example, flashback teachings for a hard counter when you only have 6 lands. Yea, tapping out does kind of suck, but its better than losing.
I'll grant that slaughter pact has seen better days though.
I do think you need more hard counters though. Whether thats dissolve, disallow, pact, cryptic, whatever. I think you need soemthing.
Otherwise, all of your answers make sense.
Against eldrazi tron, I have 2 gq, they have 2 lands I care about (cavern/SGW). Don't quarter tron lands/sol lands, except in rare circumstances.
Some versions of eldrazi tron play ugin/karn/batterskull/etc. Negate is pretty good here. Some play ulamog and co. Negate isn't so good.
I usually board in a couple of thoughtseize, but not all of them, just to fill slots based on what I'm cutting. I have snares and leyline and stuff main, so I've got more to cut though.
Jura/elspeth/BSA are all good against eldrazi tron.
Runed halo, blessed alliance, wraths, etc, are all good too.
In-
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Runed Halo
Out
2 Logic Knot
2 Leyline of Sanctity
I'd rather cut fatal push than logic knot, tbh.
At least, that's my thought process. I haven't been playing the deck as long as some, and not at the level of some, but that's the theory behind it.
Or one of these:
http://mythicspoiler.com/ixa/cards/thaumaticcompass.html
http://mythicspoiler.com/ixa/cards/primalamulet.html
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Amulet has some decent targets to copy on this deck, but the front side is too weak imo. Not enough of our spells benefit from the cost reduction, and 4 Mana at sorcery speed, it's probably that a planeswalker just be better.
Thaumatic Compass is interesting, we always want land drops and Maze of ith is obviously busted and exactly what this deck wants. But It doesn't provide any value until you've sunk at least 5 Mana into, and finding the spare 3 Mana in the first few turns will be tough.
Search seems very strong to me. Won't take much to flip it, and in the mean time it fixes your draw and fuels delve. Once it flips, it's obviously absurd. The fact that the transformers trigger is a may also means that the second copy isn't completely dead.
Search for azcanta is cool, but I don't think we play it.
Some kind of esper midrange deck (thoughtscour, tasigur, lingering souls, baby jace, etc, think something vaguely resembling those old esper transcendent lists, but actually good) might make us of it. (Or really, U/B/X, so grixis or sultai potentially.)
Coupled with opt, it might legit be a sort of "engine" for some decks. I suspect the goyro's decks will play it, but it seems promising enough for fair decks too.
UWR Control
BR Hollow One
Hopefully he'll find the time to check in soon.
Also enjoyed a great match this afternoon against ari lax, he was playing amulet which I hate as a deck just cause it has way to many triggers and such ok modo for my liking but g1 he got when I drew lots of mana and then no counters.
G2 I open with 6 lands esper charm and proceed to see 5-6 more lands after a snap charm and finally get enough stuff to battle when the dudes come, he had me scared when I had a cryptic and logic with 6 mana he resolved a green pact and found ruric thar and had the cavern to go along with it, proceeded to rip a verdict like a boss. It was then a long slog fest with him resolving a titan and a thragtusk and I had to cryptic chain for a couple turns into Verdi and then rev for 7 and then 8 to stay alive but he eventually ran out of threats and scooped with a minute and half on clock, G3 I push his t3 tireless tracker into cryptic cryptic time out, it was super satisfying to beat name players even if it's only on modo.
Esper draw go Control!
Twitch stream: http://www.twitch.tv/pimpdonny
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
Filters are alright, but they don't make a terribly significant impact on "land math".
Time will tell, but for the moment, I'm still inclined to believe that opt won't actually be correct for this deck. Will be an interesting couple of weeks before anyone knows for certain though.
My turn one is often a colonnade or a tapped shock - so its not like I want more turn one plays necessarily. I look at opt as a way to use open lands more effectively turns 1-5 - and as mentioned earlier something else you can snapcaster cheaply to get a body on the board.
Will have to see though.
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
U/W/X draw-go in probably second.
However, the perfect shell for tibalt doesn't play him because the card is bad. Just because we're one of the best decks for opt doesn't mean we actually want opt.
I do think its possible that some of us will play 2 in our flex slots if we wanted more cantrips, but again, time will tell how good the card actually is for us.
FWIW, I think Opt is very good, but Serum is better. I do think esper is uniquely positioned to take full advantage of Opt though. How many times have you contemplated dropping Snapcaster for no value just to get a body on the board? Often it's for chumping, or trading with an X/2 or sometimes just to get a clock going. I'd say we want at least 3 Opt in the hopes of having the option of Snap-Opt in the mid-game. Not sure what to cut for it though, maybe 1 Serum, 1 land and something else?
Search for Azcanta just seems absurd though. It's exactly the type of 'threat' this deck wants. Usually we don't play permanents because the opportunity cost in tapping low and trying to protect those permanents is too hard. Search has neither of those issues. It Dodges almost all pre-board removal in the format (save Abrupt Decay and Detention Sphere) and provides us a way to fix our draws, fuel Snapcaster/logic knot and then eventually ramps and provides repeatable card advantage (and selection) at instant speed. The downside of it being legendary is mitigated a little by the fact that the flip trigger is a may, so once you flip one the second can chill on the battlefield just providing a little selection value at upkeep. I will admit that it seems poor against UW control, as it turns on Detention Sphere plus they have a million TecEdge/Ghost Quarters, but outside of that matchup I think card is exactly what we want. Is there really any we would rather be doing than activating Azcanta, Sunken Ruin EOT every turn?
**Edit - Just realized most of you guys aren't on Serum, not sure what to recommend for cuts for you guys then lol.