I am hesitating to increase land destruction (with fulminator mage) over artefacts/enchantments hate. I am also considering to try stonehorn dignitary, even though it looks very expensive for just buying one turn...
I do not think you need huntmaster of the fells if you already have 2 kitchen finks and 4 restoration angel. That should be enough to manage aggro decks during the first game. If you look for tutorable removal, go for fiend hunter. If you look for token producers, I would opt for blade splicer.
Since your spells cost a lot, I would run at least 2 voice of resurgence. You do want to get something with 3cmc, even if it is countered.
Magus of the moon should probably go to the sideboard since it can look like a very odd draw in certain cases. I would probably see a knight main instead. She is big, can ramp for that additional R and once you start copying her with kiki-jiki, it becomes nuts (you start attacking with double 6/6s, ...). You can also protect a combo piece with a one-off sejiri steppe (but in that case you should at least run 2 KotR) and tutor your gavony townships for grindy games.
I played a couple of games with friends yesterday evening. I won against UG infect 2-0 and lost 1-2 against grixis delver. The second game was a very close one and I made a misplay that was fatal. I am quite happy that I do not have to put melira in the side for the infect MU. Post-board, pyroclasm T2 on the draw was really the key for winning the game without sweating too much.
In the kind of grindy grixis MU, what I missed was probably card advantage. I will therefore try to build some (at a reasonable level) with this:
The idea is to try to keep things as close as they are by:
cutting a land but adding some card draws/advantage,
cutting one ETB trigger with kitchen finks, but replacing it with another ETB trigger (wall of omens)
keeping the same pressure overall (just loosing one in attack with courser, instead of kitchen finks)
The shift to 22 lands will hopefully be fine (I was mana flooded in certain games against the grixis). Let us see if chord of calling can still work properly with only one wall of roots..
And on second thoughts: I will cut one village bell-ringer and replace it by a third knight of the reliquary. Village bell ringer makes these T3 wins possible but they are not a significant part of the win % so that it is probably better to see T4 and higher.
One tech I am currently considering with the 3 KotR is mystifying maze (probably in the side) as I am often left with tons of mana in the late game and this can buy some time against huge creatures such as wurmcoil engine, tasigur, ...
BTW - what do you guys think of the Magic origins spoiled card avaricious dragon ?
I should maybe have said "drawing cards", instead of saying card advantage. Grixis aggro is also developing a lot of value on their side of the table, with snapcaster mage, tasigur, young pyromancer, ... So having the chance to draw the right card by digging into the deck a bit further is quite important.
I am not a huge fan of path to exile. It is of course very efficient but I do not like to put the other ahead by giving him a land. So 4 path is probably too many (at least in my view).
As regards pyroclasm, it is just a question of sequencing. If you play the dork on turn 3, you have cleared the board with it on turn 2 and are ready to go on turn 4. I have also less exposure to pyroclasm since I am running 4 sprawl and most creatures I play either resist to this or provide value once they die(token, persist).
Ah I see your point. I might drop 1 path for a fiend hunter, however much I dislike the idea, a tutor-able creature kill seems necessary.
It is indeed nice to have the ability to chord for this. Fiend hunter is nice but the 3 toughness is of course not a guarantee that you will get rid of the creature for long. If you assume that - in your meta - this will only buy one turn and not more, you could also consider flickerwisp, which is more polyvalent in certain instances. I do not think there is anything else that is good to tutor for creature removal in our colour (there is grim lavamancer, but it is a non-bo with KotR).
Do u play this list online at all artvi? Just wondered how much it costs to build roughly speaking!!??
I am afraid I cannot help you on that one. I only play a paper version and playtest on cocka/xmage. I guess that you could come up with a rough idea by looking at the figures on http://www.mtggoldfish.com/
I like the approach of going for the 4 village bell-ringer and two scryb ranger, coupled with lots of creatures which tap for an effect (fauna, kotr, humble defector). Nice take.
I like the approach of going for the 4 village bell-ringer and two scryb ranger, coupled with lots of creatures which tap for an effect (fauna, kotr, humble defector). Nice take.
GerryT actually took this deck and streamed it as well, with the guy who did the daily in chat helping a bit. They tuned the deck a bit on top of that. It looks pretty fun, I'm only missing a few cards to give it a try.
"He plays in a walk in humidor so keep his foils from bending. He once kept an all land hand just to know what it felt like to be mana flooded. He uses power nine for ante. He is the most interesting magic playing in the world." Old man, "I don't always tap basic lands for mana, but when i do, I tap Gurus."
I did not know that guy but it is nice that a competitive player has interest in this deck (or any related-variant).
One point I do not really undertand is that it plays arbor elf without playing sprawl... Or have they done that after ? Do you know if there is an updated list ?
I did not know that guy but it is nice that a competitive player has interest in this deck (or any related-variant).
One point I do not really undertand is that it plays arbor elf without playing sprawl... Or have they done that after ? Do you know if there is an updated list ?
No Utopia Sprawls, Arbor Elf is just another mana dork.
"He plays in a walk in humidor so keep his foils from bending. He once kept an all land hand just to know what it felt like to be mana flooded. He uses power nine for ante. He is the most interesting magic playing in the world." Old man, "I don't always tap basic lands for mana, but when i do, I tap Gurus."
There are basically two routes and a middle ground for this deck:
(i) either you go heavy on ETB triggers, restoration angels, ...; or
(ii) you go heavy on activities that requires creatures to be tapped, village-bell ringers, ... .
Third way is the middle ground where you pick the best pieces (read: on their own, without interaction) of each of (i) and (ii) and put that together.
PS: Funny that Sam Black did that one month and a half after I contacted him on twitter in March 2015. I do not know if I should be p**** off that he did not even bother replying.
I do not know if they realised this but arbor elf, utopia sprawl and village bell ringer is the recipe for a turn 3 kill. So it is rather not efficient to run one without the other...
See what I wrote on the primer
d. Turn 3 winning hands
You will not get these consistently but you must be aware that this is possible with either of:
* 2 red sources (amongst which a stomping ground), arbor elf/utopia sprawl, restoration angel or village bell-ringer, kiki-jiki, mirro breaker (turn 1 arbor elf, turn 2 utopia sprawl - restoration angel or village bell-ringer at the end of the opponent's turn, turn 3 kiki). * T 1: forest, arbor elf T 2: stomping ground, utopia sprawl on forest set on white T 3: tap two lands for GWR; used the green for another utopia sprawl on forest set on red; untap/tap the forest with arbor elf for GWWRR, play village bell-ringer to untap the elf (RR), untap/tap fhe forest for GWRRR and .... kiki-jiki, mirror breaker !
Assuming that you are talking about the list you posted the other day, I would go for an extra finks or witness (as you prefer) (or even reclamation sage if your meta justifies this) since you already have a lot of ETB triggers in your list, plus ghostway and resto. I think witness is rather slow however so I never went above 2 in any of my list.
If you believe that you are not going through your deck fast enough, I would opt for courser or a second wall of omens.
I played infect two days ago and affinity yesterday and won 2-0 each time. So I would not be too much worried about them. I am more worried about tron, amulet bloom (ie anything that can go higher than us) and other combo decks such as twin (even though we can look them with spellskite, qasali and linvala) and ad nauseam.
For affinity, infect, BW tokens .. just put some pyroclasm in the sb or a couple of bonfire of the damned and you should be fine.
I am not sure about domri/courser. I tried this before and was not really impressed. I will try it again though but I do not like to decrease the creatures count in a chord deck.
I was talking of this deck on a mtg discussion group and I do think knight of the reliquary is our best 3-drop and we should run 4. She is really strong and enables the following line of play (which won me a number of games):
Turn 1: land, dork or sprawl
Turn 2: land, kotr
Turn 3: land, tap dork and kotr, hardcast kiki-jiki. You can fetch a fire-lit thicket or a rugged prairie (I prefer the former) with Kotr so that triple red is a non issue.
Hold off from activating kiki at that stage. Removal is around the corner and once it is there, copy kotr and fetch a one-of sejiri steppe with the copy to protect kiki
Turn 4: hit for a significant amount of damage by attacking with 2 or 3 kotr or cast the second piece of the combo
I just saw this deck as of yesterday and have fell in love. I have tested the deck Gerry T wrote in his daily digest splashing blue for venser. I didn't care for the list as I feel drawing any of the mana intensive cards is a pain. Venser or Trostani to be exact. I will try out your list but notice that trostani might go well with voice to make tokens. Also I like purphoros as a card but not sure if it would fit.
Great ! Welcome to this thread. The problem with Trostani and purphorous is that the slots for 4-CMC creatures are already well booked by restoration angel and linvala. But you may give a try and let us know what you think.
I have just had a nice game against collected company on cokatrice. We did 1-1. The second game was close, I was one land drop away from victory (I did not see the 4th land, which is quite rare and annoying, and I should have be more careful to fecth for red to be able to cast pyroclasm :)). The server crashed during the third game but I had a very slow start and he had 2 CoCo. So the issue of the game was not favorable for me, except if I drew a pyroclasm or a bonfire of the dammed (3 in my 60)... We will never know.
I am hesitating to increase land destruction (with fulminator mage) over artefacts/enchantments hate. I am also considering to try stonehorn dignitary, even though it looks very expensive for just buying one turn...
Since your spells cost a lot, I would run at least 2 voice of resurgence. You do want to get something with 3cmc, even if it is countered.
Magus of the moon should probably go to the sideboard since it can look like a very odd draw in certain cases. I would probably see a knight main instead. She is big, can ramp for that additional R and once you start copying her with kiki-jiki, it becomes nuts (you start attacking with double 6/6s, ...). You can also protect a combo piece with a one-off sejiri steppe (but in that case you should at least run 2 KotR) and tutor your gavony townships for grindy games.
In the kind of grindy grixis MU, what I missed was probably card advantage. I will therefore try to build some (at a reasonable level) with this:
-1 kitchen finks, + 1 courser of kruphix
-1 verdant catacombs, + 1 explore
-1 wall of roots, + 1 wall of omens
The idea is to try to keep things as close as they are by:
The shift to 22 lands will hopefully be fine (I was mana flooded in certain games against the grixis). Let us see if chord of calling can still work properly with only one wall of roots..
One tech I am currently considering with the 3 KotR is mystifying maze (probably in the side) as I am often left with tons of mana in the late game and this can buy some time against huge creatures such as wurmcoil engine, tasigur, ...
BTW - what do you guys think of the Magic origins spoiled card avaricious dragon ?
I am not a huge fan of path to exile. It is of course very efficient but I do not like to put the other ahead by giving him a land. So 4 path is probably too many (at least in my view).
As regards pyroclasm, it is just a question of sequencing. If you play the dork on turn 3, you have cleared the board with it on turn 2 and are ready to go on turn 4. I have also less exposure to pyroclasm since I am running 4 sprawl and most creatures I play either resist to this or provide value once they die(token, persist).
It is indeed nice to have the ability to chord for this. Fiend hunter is nice but the 3 toughness is of course not a guarantee that you will get rid of the creature for long. If you assume that - in your meta - this will only buy one turn and not more, you could also consider flickerwisp, which is more polyvalent in certain instances. I do not think there is anything else that is good to tutor for creature removal in our colour (there is grim lavamancer, but it is a non-bo with KotR).
I am afraid I cannot help you on that one. I only play a paper version and playtest on cocka/xmage. I guess that you could come up with a rough idea by looking at the figures on http://www.mtggoldfish.com/
I like the approach of going for the 4 village bell-ringer and two scryb ranger, coupled with lots of creatures which tap for an effect (fauna, kotr, humble defector). Nice take.
GerryT actually took this deck and streamed it as well, with the guy who did the daily in chat helping a bit. They tuned the deck a bit on top of that. It looks pretty fun, I'm only missing a few cards to give it a try.
One point I do not really undertand is that it plays arbor elf without playing sprawl... Or have they done that after ? Do you know if there is an updated list ?
No Utopia Sprawls, Arbor Elf is just another mana dork.
There are basically two routes and a middle ground for this deck:
(i) either you go heavy on ETB triggers, restoration angels, ...; or
(ii) you go heavy on activities that requires creatures to be tapped, village-bell ringers, ... .
Third way is the middle ground where you pick the best pieces (read: on their own, without interaction) of each of (i) and (ii) and put that together.
PS: Funny that Sam Black did that one month and a half after I contacted him on twitter in March 2015. I do not know if I should be p**** off that he did not even bother replying.
See what I wrote on the primer
Current deck:
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Stomping Ground
2 Temple Garden
3 Forest
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Gavony Township
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Fire-Lit Thicket
Instants / Sorcey (7)
4 Chord of Calling
1 Path to Exile
1 Dromoka's Command
1 Explore
Enchantments (4)
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Arbor Elf
2 Voice of Resurgence
1 Wall of Roots
1 Wall of Omens
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Spellskite
1 Fauna Shaman
3 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Village Bell-Ringer
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Courser of kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fiend Hunter
4 Restoration Angel
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
2 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Burrenton forge-tender
1 Kataki, war's wage
1 Aven mindcensor
1 Harmonic sliver
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Sigarda, host of herons
2 Pyroclasm
1 bonfire of the damned
1 Stony silence
1 Fracturing gust
1 Path to exile
1 Dromoka's command
1 Blood moon
1 Magus of the moon
If you believe that you are not going through your deck fast enough, I would opt for courser or a second wall of omens.
New spoiler archangel of tithes. Shame she costs 3W...
It would be good if a community could join forces and start building a set archetype around this..
For affinity, infect, BW tokens .. just put some pyroclasm in the sb or a couple of bonfire of the damned and you should be fine.
I am not sure about domri/courser. I tried this before and was not really impressed. I will try it again though but I do not like to decrease the creatures count in a chord deck.
I was talking of this deck on a mtg discussion group and I do think knight of the reliquary is our best 3-drop and we should run 4. She is really strong and enables the following line of play (which won me a number of games):
Turn 1: land, dork or sprawl
Turn 2: land, kotr
Turn 3: land, tap dork and kotr, hardcast kiki-jiki. You can fetch a fire-lit thicket or a rugged prairie (I prefer the former) with Kotr so that triple red is a non issue.
Hold off from activating kiki at that stage. Removal is around the corner and once it is there, copy kotr and fetch a one-of sejiri steppe with the copy to protect kiki
Turn 4: hit for a significant amount of damage by attacking with 2 or 3 kotr or cast the second piece of the combo
I have just had a nice game against collected company on cokatrice. We did 1-1. The second game was close, I was one land drop away from victory (I did not see the 4th land, which is quite rare and annoying, and I should have be more careful to fecth for red to be able to cast pyroclasm :)). The server crashed during the third game but I had a very slow start and he had 2 CoCo. So the issue of the game was not favorable for me, except if I drew a pyroclasm or a bonfire of the dammed (3 in my 60)... We will never know.
I will try to post the video if I can.
Here it is. The end of game one was very funny (infinite combo battles - at around 8 minutes)