Also Paul Cheon is streaming a Krark-Klan Ironworks deck with Scrap Trawler featuring 2x Tezz AoB in the side. He seems to be on some sort of artifact deck streak, playing Glint-Nest Crane Affinity a couple days ago, and now this. So I went and asked him wether he'd like to give Tezz control a spin, which I'd love to see. I encourage you guys to ask him out also!
Congrats for the great info you provided. I am planing to use a tezz + whir deck in modern. And I have some thoughts to share...
1) I think we must play at least with 3-2 pieces of the combo. I know we have whir to search for but assemble the combo naturaly also is good;
2) I think we must play with 4 inquisition 4 push and 3 brutality (at minimum). Why? Because we must slow our opponents on t1 and 2;
3) Finally, Why not play with the full set of river of tears and sunken ruins? We must improve our chances to UUU.
This is the list that I'll start my tests...
4 tezzeret, agent of bolas
4 whir of invention
4 inquisition of kozilek
4 pentad prism
4 mishra's bauble
4 fatal push
3 thopter foundry
3 collective brutality
2 sword of the meek
2 ensnaring bridge
1 pithing needle
1 welding jar
1 nihil spellbomb
1 spellskite
4 darslick shores
4 sunken ruins
4 river of tears
4 polluted delta
2 watery grave
1 island
1 swamp
1 academy ruins
1 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
@gbaldanza
Drawing the combo naturally can be great but far to often you draw two of the same piece or you needed action instead of a Sword of the Meek and you die. With a 2/2 split you have 6 virtual copies of each plus Tezzeret to dig for them. I never have a problem getting the combo together when i need it.
I am with you on wanting to play as much cheap interaction as possible but there are only so many slots. I am 3-4-3 respectively.
River of Tears doesn't produce blue the turn you play it, so if it is your third land and you need to mainphase a Whir of Invention you can't. It is generally better to play a basic island in this slot. Sunken Ruins is only providing you double blue if one of the other lands drew was the singleton swamp. Otherwise it is better as an island. In the primer there is a detailed section on lands that explains why you should be playing a somewhat stock core to the mana base. In short, River of Tears and Sunken Ruins are not good enough here for the same reason they are not played in any other blue/black deck in Modern.
I watched some hours of Kenji on the deck, and the audience was massive (caping at 1400 ppl). Through his talking I catched he actually started from Zac Elsik's list, and then cut Time Sieve for KCI (he went infinite twice on camera so far), and cut Executioner's Capsule for a fourth Fatal Push, which makes sense against all the Shadow decks he's been facing.
Also picked up that throughout the day he went 3-2, 3-2, 4-1, then 0-2 and /edit: went 3-2 in the last one / in Modern Competitive Leagues. Overall day win rate: ~60%.
I have to agree with @Ravenwatch, from what I've seen so far he's playing really really bad. And sideboarding recklessly toward the end, like against Merfolk for example, Zac and I were telling him NOT to side EE and Ratchet Bomb out but he said he didn't care and... Died from a quick death shortly afterward.
He also repeatedly said «Help, this deck is frying my brain».
/e: Wrapping at the end of the day, he conceded that he had punted a million times throughout the day. He says that the deck indeed has tons of room for mistakes. He recognizes still being at the stage of «getting the reps in», and he'll play it again soon, likely tomorrow.
The newest spoiler contains some bad news for us. Harsh Mentor is a really strong hate card against this deck, especially against the turbo package with 4 Mishra's Bauble. The combo isn´t shut off, but paying 1 life for a thopter is significantly worse than getting one life and the damage can easily kill Tezzeret. I really hope the card doesnt become a staple in Modern.
@gbaldanza:
It´s totally legit to play 4 inquisition 4 push and 3 brutality if you think you really need it in your meta. But in my local Meta (and to a certain extent in an unknown meta) Collective Brutality does not do it´s job mainboard. We really need it against aggro matchups, but it´s a bad card against Tron, Valakut, Prison Decks, Control, Deaths Shadow, etc. The 3/2 split is also totally legit, i´m currently testing it again and i think i will keep it like this.
I would not be worried about this card. It is great and may get into some taxes style decks but the artifact sideboard hate we already have is much stronger than this card.
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Sultai Midrange
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And then they print By Force, an XR sorcery that destroys X target artifacts. With this deck picking up popularity and the already-established Affinity, this will see board play in Modern. It has to as it's a cleaner answer in a lot of cases.
So we should start looking at an answer or counter-strategy. Counter and hand disruptions (which a lot of versions play) seem excellent but does lead credence to more of a look at Padeem, Consul of Innovation for protection (though he is unsearchable and a T3 drop, at best, in our deck) or more Welding Jars to be played?
Shattering Spree, Vandalblast, and Shatterstorm are already cards. People are not going to devote more slots to artifact hate in their sb because of the printing of this. IoK, TS and Brutality all answer it no biggie, and Welding Jar is still the most synergistic counter-shatter. I wouldn't worry.
This being said, Numot is still (/edit: was) streaming us. Come give the guy some tips will ya.
So I've been trying out this deck for a few weeks, some of the non-bauble builds from TCG States, then when Gerry T did his video I came here and have been trying out the Baubles, which I love. Card draw, improvise for whir, enable opal, they're just great. I am basically playing Radouf's recent list, with the 3rd Opal swapped to a Time Sieve, because I only have 2 Opals and wanted to try out Sieve. So far Sieve has been nice, but most of the time when I've won with it, I would have won in a few turns anyway, but I do like being able to just play 1 copy for those times it does matter.
So questions I have though. How are people finding the Expedition Map? So far I've found it pretty underwhelming. Being able to search of Academy Ruins or Fair is nice, but to be honest, I hardly ever activate either. I find either I'm rolling along firing on all cylinders or they've slowed me to a crawl and neither will be particularly valuable. Particularly Inventor's Fair. Reusing stuff is nice with Ruins, but I almost never activate fair, since Whirs and Tezzerets usually tutor up whatever I need in short order.
The other question is Mechanized Production. It does seem interesting for Stony Silence decks etc, but how are people finding it, and what matchups do you typically bring it in against?
Lastly, is anyone having issues with UW Control? I play a lot of it on mtgo and it hasn't been feeling great. I find it hard to jam threats through their counters and Stony Silence is a real pain when it's hard to stick a Tezz. So far I've added a defense grid to the board which has helped a bit
Fair is great because of the lifegain. It's nice to tutor for the combo or a bridge sometimes too, but mainly the 1 life/turn is just real imo. It really helps you buy a lot of time, stabilization etc.
Mechanized Production is a card that is only a wincon imo. We have cards that are wincons and dig us closer or protect us at the same time. I don't think we have room for a card that is wincon only.
UW control is only strong if they get a lead on you; which they only really do with stony silence. Inquisition & Thoughtseize is just mandatory in G2 against white decks because we have no real way to remove enchantments otherwise and it just slows you down to a crawl, which is the only real way they can win.
I would never play expedition map in this deck. Academy ruins is great for grindy matchups but its a bonus, not a requisite. If you're academy ruinsing you're behind a bridge and generally have enough time to draw into it.
Radouf, I've played the mirror matchup with Numo the Nummy a few times on MTGO, including yesterday, and it was fun. I accused him of stealing my Time Sieve tech, heh. =P Time Sieve won each of us a game. So far, I'm 2-0 in the matchup.
The Scrap Trawler combo deck is a tough matchup, which is why I moved from needle main to revoker main (plus added utility against burn/zoo).
I've been really experimenting with builds, and currently have all copies of tezz in the side. Heresy, I know, but I feel like he only helps in matchups we're favored in game one. He's good against control and midrange, but control and midrange typically fall to thopters anyway before the hate comes in.
I know it's adding a color but I've been running Serum Visions instead of Mishra's Bauble, but anybody consider Trash for Treasure in the board for something that doesn't get shut down buy Stony Silence? You could replace Serum Visions with Faithless Looting.
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Playing: Modern: BWEldrazi and TaxesBW Legacy: WEldraziW
Hello! I've been lurking on this thread (including the old one) for a loooooooong time and decided to chime in.
I've been playing variants of this for a while, but modern has been a side format for me until recently. Had a fair amount of success with the crane version of the deck as well.
Anyways...
So the hot button issue looks like Mishra's Bauble. I can see the appeal, and it definitely looks worth it based on videos I've seen, however I think for me and for many it sounds like, buying into Baubles isn't necessarily feasible without knowing at a high degree of certainty that the card is a) not going the the road of Gitaxian Probe and b) the presence of the card in the deck has a noticeable impact on win percentage. Not only that but most of my modern play has to be in tournaments, where i can't proxy cards to test.
In doing a bit of research I have found a strictly worse version of the card in Conjurer's Bauble (forgive me, I haven't yet learned to link cards). It is worse in that it costs one, and that it puts a card from your yard back in your deck as opposed to giving you a little bit of information. However, it does still accomplish 2 of the main functions of the superior Bauble: it smooths draws and acts as an early utility artifact to Whir off of.
Now my question for the forum is, despite the fact that this card is strictly worse than Mishra's Bauble, is it SO strictly worse that it would be unplayable as a method for testing out if we want Mishra's Bauble in a competitive setting?
My two cents is that if players are playing Serum Visions or IoK, this card might fill those slots nicely as a temporary thing since the Baubles lists appear to omit those cards in general. Thoughts?
If you aren't playing baubles, just play serum visions or IoKs as bauble is competiting for this slot. Do not play conjurers bauble because by being costed at one mana, it loses the primary benefit of bauble over visions and IoK.
3 things primarily cause me to lose when playing this deck.
1. Too slow of a start to land a bridge/combo to stabilize fast enough
2. Get blown out by artifact/permanent removal without an answer or good line.
3. Get stuck top-decking behind a bridge with multiple bad draws in a row.
Expedition map is great resource to have in the deck to help with number 3, as it represents a one-of whir target to get out of a situation where you only have bridge out with some lands, and are topdecking for an answer. No other card we can tutor for with whir by itself can mean we are closing the game in 2-3 turns other than map.
It has a very low opportunity cost to play at one mana and synergizes with improvise/metalcraft so even in games where you don't need it it can have a beneficial effect.
I've had 4 Conjurer's Bauble in my build for a few weeks now, after seeking a budget Mishra's Bauble by searching for 0-1CMC artifacts with the word "card" in them. I don't play Whirs or Mox Opals, just Crane, so my 2-drop slot is extremely clogged. Conjurer's Bauble is awesome for many reasons. In order of importance:
-Smoothes curve out
-Is colorless. I jam 4 Citadels for Tezz+Crane synergy as well as 3 GQs and a Crucible (madness!) so I often don't have U on turn 1 for Serum Visions
-Turns Crane and Tezz+1 into a random card draw. If you didn't like/see any other artifacts, by taking Bauble you're able to get a redraw.
-Empties hand for Bridge
-Hides cards from LotV's +1
-Counters Surgical Extraction
On the expedition map question, I am trying one out, mostly for curve reasons but also cause it's gonna help fix my colors. I'm still trying to squeeze in a Tec Edge and that'll be easier with Map.
@the nobodys
I am actually super interested in putting Tezz in the side. You're right that he seems to help against decks that don't need the help game 1. I'll start by going down 4->3 and bringing my Needle to the 60.
Then regarding Kenji the Numot, he did 5-0 a league with the deck this morning.
/e: after watching him concede to a Chord of Calling into combo as he was gripping on a Whir of Invention, with sufficient mana open, and Grafdigger's Cage sided in, I think Imma stop watching him. Too painful.
@Map: I'm loving it. So much utility, and mana fixing in a T1 trinket play. It's becoming a staple IMO.
@Bauble: I'd run Serum Visions before Conjurer's Bauble. I don't think Conjurer even comes close to Mishra's Bauble in utility (scrying being the first thing, being free being the second). But I haven't tried it so, what do I know. I'd jump on Mishra's Bauble first thing, were it not to be banned next announcement (which I dont think it will).
How are we dealing with Ad Nauseum? Quick Tezz? I'm fairly new to the deck still but I had Pithing Needle on Lightning Storm and Witchbane Orb out so he just won through Lab Man. I guess I could try to have an Executioner's Capsule out to get through Pact of Negation.
I like Revoker over Needle main deck for Ad Nauseum as you can name lotus bloom or prism. I know revoker dies to creature removal, but what matchups do you really want the needle/revoker effect anyway? Tron, ad nauseum, and other combo decks that typically don't pack removal.
Ad Nauseum needs to be raced, and Collective Brutality helps disrupt them. Time Sieve combo is good here.
How are we dealing with Ad Nauseum? Quick Tezz? I'm fairly new to the deck still but I had Pithing Needle on Lightning Storm and Witchbane Orb out so he just won through Lab Man. I guess I could try to have an Executioner's Capsule out to get through Pact of Negation.
A Chalice on 1 here is pretty good. It slows them down a lot while also shutting off Angel's Grace.
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How are we dealing with Ad Nauseum? Quick Tezz? I'm fairly new to the deck still but I had Pithing Needle on Lightning Storm and Witchbane Orb out so he just won through Lab Man. I guess I could try to have an Executioner's Capsule out to get through Pact of Negation.
A Chalice on 1 here is pretty good. It slows them down a lot while also shutting off Angel's Grace.
Chalice on 1 slows them down, but Angel's Grace is chalice-proof since it has split second (I'm wrong on this - chalice still works since it's a triggered ability). Best ways I've found to combat it are hand disruption and a clock, or disruption + surgical extract. You can also chalice on 0 and get a revoker out naming simian spirit guide, which slows them down (they can eventually break this with echoing truth, but it takes a few more turns for them to save up the mana to cast ad naus and truth). It is not a good matchup for us imo.
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/e: he's on Scarsella's list: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/594713#paper
Also Paul Cheon is streaming a Krark-Klan Ironworks deck with Scrap Trawler featuring 2x Tezz AoB in the side. He seems to be on some sort of artifact deck streak, playing Glint-Nest Crane Affinity a couple days ago, and now this. So I went and asked him wether he'd like to give Tezz control a spin, which I'd love to see. I encourage you guys to ask him out also!
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
@gbaldanza
Drawing the combo naturally can be great but far to often you draw two of the same piece or you needed action instead of a Sword of the Meek and you die. With a 2/2 split you have 6 virtual copies of each plus Tezzeret to dig for them. I never have a problem getting the combo together when i need it.
I am with you on wanting to play as much cheap interaction as possible but there are only so many slots. I am 3-4-3 respectively.
River of Tears doesn't produce blue the turn you play it, so if it is your third land and you need to mainphase a Whir of Invention you can't. It is generally better to play a basic island in this slot. Sunken Ruins is only providing you double blue if one of the other lands drew was the singleton swamp. Otherwise it is better as an island. In the primer there is a detailed section on lands that explains why you should be playing a somewhat stock core to the mana base. In short, River of Tears and Sunken Ruins are not good enough here for the same reason they are not played in any other blue/black deck in Modern.
Sultai Midrange
Anything Innovative
Also picked up that throughout the day he went 3-2, 3-2, 4-1, then 0-2 and /edit: went 3-2 in the last one / in Modern Competitive Leagues. Overall day win rate: ~60%.
I have to agree with @Ravenwatch, from what I've seen so far he's playing really really bad. And sideboarding recklessly toward the end, like against Merfolk for example, Zac and I were telling him NOT to side EE and Ratchet Bomb out but he said he didn't care and... Died from a quick death shortly afterward.
He also repeatedly said «Help, this deck is frying my brain».
/e: Wrapping at the end of the day, he conceded that he had punted a million times throughout the day. He says that the deck indeed has tons of room for mistakes. He recognizes still being at the stage of «getting the reps in», and he'll play it again soon, likely tomorrow.
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
I would not be worried about this card. It is great and may get into some taxes style decks but the artifact sideboard hate we already have is much stronger than this card.
Sultai Midrange
Anything Innovative
So we should start looking at an answer or counter-strategy. Counter and hand disruptions (which a lot of versions play) seem excellent but does lead credence to more of a look at Padeem, Consul of Innovation for protection (though he is unsearchable and a T3 drop, at best, in our deck) or more Welding Jars to be played?
This being said, Numot is still (/edit: was) streaming us. Come give the guy some tips will ya.
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
So questions I have though. How are people finding the Expedition Map? So far I've found it pretty underwhelming. Being able to search of Academy Ruins or Fair is nice, but to be honest, I hardly ever activate either. I find either I'm rolling along firing on all cylinders or they've slowed me to a crawl and neither will be particularly valuable. Particularly Inventor's Fair. Reusing stuff is nice with Ruins, but I almost never activate fair, since Whirs and Tezzerets usually tutor up whatever I need in short order.
The other question is Mechanized Production. It does seem interesting for Stony Silence decks etc, but how are people finding it, and what matchups do you typically bring it in against?
Lastly, is anyone having issues with UW Control? I play a lot of it on mtgo and it hasn't been feeling great. I find it hard to jam threats through their counters and Stony Silence is a real pain when it's hard to stick a Tezz. So far I've added a defense grid to the board which has helped a bit
Mechanized Production is a card that is only a wincon imo. We have cards that are wincons and dig us closer or protect us at the same time. I don't think we have room for a card that is wincon only.
UW control is only strong if they get a lead on you; which they only really do with stony silence. Inquisition & Thoughtseize is just mandatory in G2 against white decks because we have no real way to remove enchantments otherwise and it just slows you down to a crawl, which is the only real way they can win.
I would never play expedition map in this deck. Academy ruins is great for grindy matchups but its a bonus, not a requisite. If you're academy ruinsing you're behind a bridge and generally have enough time to draw into it.
The Scrap Trawler combo deck is a tough matchup, which is why I moved from needle main to revoker main (plus added utility against burn/zoo).
I've been really experimenting with builds, and currently have all copies of tezz in the side. Heresy, I know, but I feel like he only helps in matchups we're favored in game one. He's good against control and midrange, but control and midrange typically fall to thopters anyway before the hate comes in.
Playing:
Modern:
BWEldrazi and TaxesBW
Legacy:
WEldraziW
I've been playing variants of this for a while, but modern has been a side format for me until recently. Had a fair amount of success with the crane version of the deck as well.
Anyways...
So the hot button issue looks like Mishra's Bauble. I can see the appeal, and it definitely looks worth it based on videos I've seen, however I think for me and for many it sounds like, buying into Baubles isn't necessarily feasible without knowing at a high degree of certainty that the card is a) not going the the road of Gitaxian Probe and b) the presence of the card in the deck has a noticeable impact on win percentage. Not only that but most of my modern play has to be in tournaments, where i can't proxy cards to test.
In doing a bit of research I have found a strictly worse version of the card in Conjurer's Bauble (forgive me, I haven't yet learned to link cards). It is worse in that it costs one, and that it puts a card from your yard back in your deck as opposed to giving you a little bit of information. However, it does still accomplish 2 of the main functions of the superior Bauble: it smooths draws and acts as an early utility artifact to Whir off of.
Now my question for the forum is, despite the fact that this card is strictly worse than Mishra's Bauble, is it SO strictly worse that it would be unplayable as a method for testing out if we want Mishra's Bauble in a competitive setting?
My two cents is that if players are playing Serum Visions or IoK, this card might fill those slots nicely as a temporary thing since the Baubles lists appear to omit those cards in general. Thoughts?
It lost to burn in the finals.
Sweet deck, great to see it doing well.
If you aren't playing baubles, just play serum visions or IoKs as bauble is competiting for this slot. Do not play conjurers bauble because by being costed at one mana, it loses the primary benefit of bauble over visions and IoK.
Re: Expedition map
3 things primarily cause me to lose when playing this deck.
1. Too slow of a start to land a bridge/combo to stabilize fast enough
2. Get blown out by artifact/permanent removal without an answer or good line.
3. Get stuck top-decking behind a bridge with multiple bad draws in a row.
Expedition map is great resource to have in the deck to help with number 3, as it represents a one-of whir target to get out of a situation where you only have bridge out with some lands, and are topdecking for an answer. No other card we can tutor for with whir by itself can mean we are closing the game in 2-3 turns other than map.
It has a very low opportunity cost to play at one mana and synergizes with improvise/metalcraft so even in games where you don't need it it can have a beneficial effect.
Welcome (to posting)!
I've had 4 Conjurer's Bauble in my build for a few weeks now, after seeking a budget Mishra's Bauble by searching for 0-1CMC artifacts with the word "card" in them. I don't play Whirs or Mox Opals, just Crane, so my 2-drop slot is extremely clogged. Conjurer's Bauble is awesome for many reasons. In order of importance:
-Smoothes curve out
-Is colorless. I jam 4 Citadels for Tezz+Crane synergy as well as 3 GQs and a Crucible (madness!) so I often don't have U on turn 1 for Serum Visions
-Turns Crane and Tezz+1 into a random card draw. If you didn't like/see any other artifacts, by taking Bauble you're able to get a redraw.
-Empties hand for Bridge
-Hides cards from LotV's +1
-Counters Surgical Extraction
On the expedition map question, I am trying one out, mostly for curve reasons but also cause it's gonna help fix my colors. I'm still trying to squeeze in a Tec Edge and that'll be easier with Map.
@the nobodys
I am actually super interested in putting Tezz in the side. You're right that he seems to help against decks that don't need the help game 1. I'll start by going down 4->3 and bringing my Needle to the 60.
I however ran across these two gems from the pre-Whir era that we missed:
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=14602&d=287614&f=MO
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=15111&d=291535&f=MO
Then regarding Kenji the Numot, he did 5-0 a league with the deck this morning.
/e: after watching him concede to a Chord of Calling into combo as he was gripping on a Whir of Invention, with sufficient mana open, and Grafdigger's Cage sided in, I think Imma stop watching him. Too painful.
@Map: I'm loving it. So much utility, and mana fixing in a T1 trinket play. It's becoming a staple IMO.
@Bauble: I'd run Serum Visions before Conjurer's Bauble. I don't think Conjurer even comes close to Mishra's Bauble in utility (scrying being the first thing, being free being the second). But I haven't tried it so, what do I know. I'd jump on Mishra's Bauble first thing, were it not to be banned next announcement (which I dont think it will).
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
Ad Nauseum needs to be raced, and Collective Brutality helps disrupt them. Time Sieve combo is good here.
A Chalice on 1 here is pretty good. It slows them down a lot while also shutting off Angel's Grace.
Sultai Midrange
Anything Innovative
Chalice on 1 slows them down
, but Angel's Grace is chalice-proof since it has split second(I'm wrong on this - chalice still works since it's a triggered ability). Best ways I've found to combat it are hand disruption and a clock, or disruption + surgical extract. You can also chalice on 0 and get a revoker out naming simian spirit guide, which slows them down (they can eventually break this with echoing truth, but it takes a few more turns for them to save up the mana to cast ad naus and truth). It is not a good matchup for us imo.