I run 1x Heroic Intervention and 1x Shapers Sanctuary right now, still testing out which I want to run 2x of, but Heroic Intervention has given me a couple of clutch plays so far.
Overall, I've found that its better to play instants over enchantments or other permanents (Prowling Serpopard), because though you only get one usage, it normally comes as a total surprise and allows you to gain the upperhand when you want to. Plus, permanents can be strategically played around or even targeted for removal. For this reason I run Guttural Response over Prowling Serpopard, and I'm leaning towards Heroic Intervention over Shapers Sanctuary and Evolutionary Leap.
Two tuskers/avatars and an Aspect/vines is enough to play ghalta for 2, and how often do we have more than 6 power with a pump in hand by turn 3? I almost always do.
While Rhonas doesn't rely on creature power to be played, Ghalta doesn't rely on creature power/mana in order to swing every turn, and as a 12/12-trample you're almost guarenteed to have some unblockable damage or at least force a double/triple block to stop it. Which definitely could make him worth testing some more. I'll be doing it all night tonight and will let you know what i think.
He is weak to destroy/exile effects...and I wonder whether he's technically a target for Fatal push or not? Either way I think we can agree he's definitely the more explosive play, though not the most resilient one.
You yourself said your creatures get removed a lot. You're not the only one though. Most people playing Stompy face a lot of removal. But this means that when faced with removal, which will almost always happen, you won't be able to cast Ghalta. Half the time it's just a dead card in your hand, and what you're imagining is the absolute best-case scenario. Imagine the worst case scenario.
Think about it like this:
-You have a good hand that will get Ghalta out on turn 4. This is pretty reasonable since you have Aspect in hand with a bunch of on-curve creatures. You're assuming none of them are removed in the early stages of the game. Already, you're being quite optimistic.
-You opponent plays Thoughtseize. They're not even going to take Ghalta. They will take Aspect or something that will stop you from casting it. They know it's in your hand and they will use just enough removal from preventing you from ever playing it.
-The game plays on. At some point, through discard and removal, Ghalta is the only creature left in your hand. Maybe you drew another pump spell. Any creature you play will be removed because your opponent has been given plenty of time to draw more removal while you were doing nothing.
-Wouldn't you wish that you had another creature in this scenario?
Yes, not every deck you play against will be Jund. But I guarantee that every deck out there will have many ways of stopping you from playing that card. But by all means, play a copy in your sideboard. Some decks don't play removal. You might want to take advantage of that. But don't play Ghalta in the main. Please.
The same could be said about Rhonas. Black hand destruction is one of our worst matchups as it is so its important to keep that in mind. Why don't we just run 4x Leatherback? Because Rhonas has situational advantages and when we can pull them off, we can win games. The only decks I've had problems getting Ghalta out against were monoblue control and decks with hand destruction. The same is true of Rhonas, and frankly I have an equally hard time keeping Rhonas relevant because as soon as I drop him, my strategy is clear and my creatures just get picked off until Rhonas is nothing more than a statue on the battlefield. When I land Ghalta, its always a surprise and they have +/- a turn to deal with him or its GG. Also, for whatever reason Ghalta normally comes out at 2 mana or less for me, which saves me plenty of mana that turn to protect with hexproof pumps if I need to, rather than having to risk waiting another turn to drop Rhonas with a pump spell to protect him from Path, or hoping that if I activate Rhonas to pump another creature, I'll still have enough to hexproof if they Path.
Of course, its important to remember that I run more hexproof in my build than the norm, so I can counter most removal fairly consistently. It's always fun to drop Vines/Blossoming on their Path/Push.
I run 1x Heroic Intervention and 1x Shapers Sanctuary right now, still testing out which I want to run 2x of, but Heroic Intervention has given me a couple of clutch plays so far.
Those two cards really shouldn't be compared as equivalent slots. Heroic Intervention is for sweepers and is overcosted for spot removal (see Vines ad Blossoming Defense). Shapers' Sanctuary is for heavy spot removal and doesn't work on sweepers as they don't target.
The same could be said about Rhonas. Black hand destruction is one of our worst matchups as it is so its important to keep that in mind. Why don't we just run 4x Leatherback? Because Rhonas has situational advantages and when we can pull them off, we can win games. The only decks I've had problems getting Ghalta out against were monoblue control and decks with hand destruction. The same is true of Rhonas, and frankly I have an equally hard time keeping Rhonas relevant because as soon as I drop him, my strategy is clear and my creatures just get picked off until Rhonas is nothing more than a statue on the battlefield. When I land Ghalta, its always a surprise and they have +/- a turn to deal with him or its GG. Also, for whatever reason Ghalta normally comes out at 2 mana or less for me, which saves me plenty of mana that turn to protect with hexproof pumps if I need to, rather than having to risk waiting another turn to drop Rhonas with a pump spell to protect him from Path, or hoping that if I activate Rhonas to pump another creature, I'll still have enough to hexproof if they Path.
Of course, its important to remember that I run more hexproof in my build than the norm, so I can counter most removal fairly consistently. It's always fun to drop Vines/Blossoming on their Path/Push.
Ghalta still seems like something you might get to cast every now and then if you live in magical christmas land, but otherwise it should be kept as a sideboard card. You say sometimes you land it and it's almost GG for them. Well compare the amount of times you were able to cast with the amount of times it was stuck in your hand. You should also be aware of decks that are just going to use Path to Exile or use a Supreme Verdict that they were going to use anyways.
I run 1x Heroic Intervention and 1x Shapers Sanctuary right now, still testing out which I want to run 2x of, but Heroic Intervention has given me a couple of clutch plays so far.
Those two cards really shouldn't be compared as equivalent slots. Heroic Intervention is for sweepers and is overcosted for spot removal (see Vines ad Blossoming Defense). Shapers' Sanctuary is for heavy spot removal and doesn't work on sweepers as they don't target.
While they obviously do different things, if you think about the sideboard in terms of how many slots you can dedicate to each type of match-up, the two kinda are equivalent, because they both generally come in against control (and sometimes midrange) decks. However, I always run some number of both, currently 2+2.
He's right, I meant Evolutionary Leap not Shapers. I've settled on 2x Heroic Intervention though.
With the unbanning of Bloodbraid Elf, I'm thinking of making a list using it alongside Groundbreaker. 9 haste power out of nowhere seems pretty good. You could also replace the dismembers with Lightning Bolts for an even more aggressive angle. It also gives access to Blood Moon in the sideboard.
The main problem I have with Bloodbraid Elf in stompy is that when you don't have a creature on the field, it can miss quite a lot (when flipping Rancors or any of the pump spells).
There is a discussion about BBE on page 10 that I recommend you to read.
I personally think that Collected Company is better, you have more chance to get stronger creatures on the board, and it doesn't miss as often as BBE in Stompy builds. In the primer is a Collected Stompany list with 4 Groundbreaker and 4 Boggart Ram-Gang, which can also gives you a lot of hasty power on board.
Hey guys since the last three months i've been reading your posts here and is incredible. I love this deck is the only one i can afford for modern and win some games.
I can't right now write a better post cause i'm in the beach and i'm writing in my phone.
I just registered now to tell you that mono green aggro with blood moon is really a competitive deck maybe tier one, the thing is we just started exploring this splash.
I can't buy it right now but testing it online through non official pages i've realised that atarka's commamd lightning bolt and Hazzoret with Rhonas are good additions to the splash red list.
Sorry for my english im not a native speaker or writer but i try...
Congrats on the primer is awesome
Hey Jorge, welcome to the thread!
First of all, thank you! The primer is almost done, and I'm really happy to hear it's helping a lot of people!
Secondly, the splash sounds interesting! I myself have questions regarding Hazoret the Fervent (especially when it comes to the mana cost), but I would love to see your list, your card choices and your findings when testing it.
And don't worry about your English, it is more than good enough!
Has anyone tested Defense Grid as an anti-control sideboard? Seems like it would be pretty good against several decks that we have problems with, but especially control decks.
I really thought about it but never tested, it seems a viable way to face heavy control decks. But it is very situational cause it will work only against counterspells. For example if your opponent has a push or a path they won't cast it until their turn, but in that case your protection spells will cost 3 more to protect your creature and that's really bad.
Hi everyone, great work on the new primer!
I recently bought the SaffronOlive Mono Green Aggro list and I've been trying to change some of it with cards from my collection.
Had an idea after seeing the discussion about BBE, what do you guys think of Matter Reshaper?
I was considering running 3 in the main alongside a Rhonas and 2 Leatherback Baloth, with 2 Hashep Oasis in the utility slots and going down a Treetop Village for a single Mutavault to produce the colorless mana.
I figured it would be nice to have a beater that could give you a free chance at a Rhonas or Baloth on death. At worst, you'd get a land to your hand or cast a pump spell. I'm not sure if that would be enough colorless mana to reliably run it, or how useful it would be. I'd like to hear your thoughts on it!
I was also wondering if someone could let me know where I could find an up to date red splash list. I have a playset of Simian Spirit Guide that I've been trying to cram into a deck for the longest time, and I wanted to see if it could work with Stompy in some capacity.
Thanks!
... what do you guys think of Matter Reshaper?
... I'm not sure if that would be enough colorless mana to reliably run it, or how useful it would be. I'd like to hear your thoughts on it!
I was also wondering if someone could let me know where I could find an up to date red splash list. I have a playset of Simian Spirit Guide that I've been trying to cram into a deck for the longest time, and I wanted to see if it could work with Stompy in some capacity.
Thanks!
To reliably cast a card with a colourless requirement you would need 8-12 colourless sources. To see an example of this, look up any list of Death & Taxes. That deck regularly splashes colourless for various Eldrazi creatures. Some lists splash for as little as the activation cost of Eldrazi Displacer and yet they still run 12+ colourless sources (yes, I know they use some of the lands for other purposes too). So your idea of splashing Matter Reshaper off 3 sources is ill-advised to say the least. It also runs completely counter to the strengths of Stompy, some of which are maximizing Aspect of Hydra, being resistant to Blood Moon and being resistant to Ghost Quarter.
As for your idea of using Simian Spirit Guide, I don't think that's a sound plan either. Having a playset of the card isn't a reason alone to use it. You'd need to have red cards you want to play, a reason why those red cards are better than what the deck already runs and most importantly a good reason why those cards should be ramped out with a Spirit Guide. Spending a whole extra card to pay for something is a massive cost and you should have a very good reason for doing so. I don't think such a reason exists for Stompy.
For fun, have been testing a Vault Skirge as a one-of in the mono green version. Only one, so it does not reduce the devotion count too much. Turn 1 skirge, turn 2 rancor + blossoming defense backup. The lifelink and flying goes well with the many pump spells of the deck. Will keep testing.
I really thought about it but never tested, it seems a viable way to face heavy control decks. But it is very situational cause it will work only against counterspells. For example if your opponent has a push or a path they won't cast it until their turn, but in that case your protection spells will cost 3 more to protect your creature and that's really bad.
That is a good point, the detriment to our strategy is too great to really justify running it.
Another thought, If we're running 4 drops in the sideboard, should we be running 22 lands? And has anyone experimented with a leaner version with less 3 drops and 20 lands? I'm just running 21 by default but I'm trying to figure out when I can/should be running 20 or 22.
Hey Cirnu, thanks for answering my questions. That was some pretty helpful insight into deckbuilding, as well as the card specific stuff. It's a shame my ideas didn't really pan out, but I'm glad that I know early before I start trying to build around them. Thanks again!
Hey Cirnu, thanks for answering my questions. That was some pretty helpful insight into deckbuilding, as well as the card specific stuff. It's a shame my ideas didn't really pan out, but I'm glad that I know early before I start trying to build around them. Thanks again!
No problem at all Deck advice is what this thread is for after all. If you want any further advice feel free to post your current deck list and I'll gladly take a look.
Another thought, If we're running 4 drops in the sideboard, should we be running 22 lands? And has anyone experimented with a leaner version with less 3 drops and 20 lands? I'm just running 21 by default but I'm trying to figure out when I can/should be running 20 or 22.
I think that 20/21 is the right number of lands in order to successfully play a land and a threat every turn. If you're running 2 or 3 four drops probably 22 lands are required. I have a list in which I run 20 lands (19 forests and 1 TTV) and there are 6 three drops and a single CoCo and seems fine for me. I've tested a lot with 21/22 lands but I was often flooding so I decided to reduce the land count to 20 and now it performs well.
Overall, I've found that its better to play instants over enchantments or other permanents (Prowling Serpopard), because though you only get one usage, it normally comes as a total surprise and allows you to gain the upperhand when you want to. Plus, permanents can be strategically played around or even targeted for removal. For this reason I run Guttural Response over Prowling Serpopard, and I'm leaning towards Heroic Intervention over Shapers Sanctuary and Evolutionary Leap.
The same could be said about Rhonas. Black hand destruction is one of our worst matchups as it is so its important to keep that in mind. Why don't we just run 4x Leatherback? Because Rhonas has situational advantages and when we can pull them off, we can win games. The only decks I've had problems getting Ghalta out against were monoblue control and decks with hand destruction. The same is true of Rhonas, and frankly I have an equally hard time keeping Rhonas relevant because as soon as I drop him, my strategy is clear and my creatures just get picked off until Rhonas is nothing more than a statue on the battlefield. When I land Ghalta, its always a surprise and they have +/- a turn to deal with him or its GG. Also, for whatever reason Ghalta normally comes out at 2 mana or less for me, which saves me plenty of mana that turn to protect with hexproof pumps if I need to, rather than having to risk waiting another turn to drop Rhonas with a pump spell to protect him from Path, or hoping that if I activate Rhonas to pump another creature, I'll still have enough to hexproof if they Path.
Of course, its important to remember that I run more hexproof in my build than the norm, so I can counter most removal fairly consistently. It's always fun to drop Vines/Blossoming on their Path/Push.
Those two cards really shouldn't be compared as equivalent slots. Heroic Intervention is for sweepers and is overcosted for spot removal (see Vines ad Blossoming Defense). Shapers' Sanctuary is for heavy spot removal and doesn't work on sweepers as they don't target.
Budget Modern: GStompyG | R8-WhackR
Less?! How’s that!?
Ghalta still seems like something you might get to cast every now and then if you live in magical christmas land, but otherwise it should be kept as a sideboard card. You say sometimes you land it and it's almost GG for them. Well compare the amount of times you were able to cast with the amount of times it was stuck in your hand. You should also be aware of decks that are just going to use Path to Exile or use a Supreme Verdict that they were going to use anyways.
He's right, I meant Evolutionary Leap not Shapers. I've settled on 2x Heroic Intervention though.
The main problem I have with Bloodbraid Elf in stompy is that when you don't have a creature on the field, it can miss quite a lot (when flipping Rancors or any of the pump spells).
I personally think that Collected Company is better, you have more chance to get stronger creatures on the board, and it doesn't miss as often as BBE in Stompy builds. In the primer is a Collected Stompany list with 4 Groundbreaker and 4 Boggart Ram-Gang, which can also gives you a lot of hasty power on board.
I can't right now write a better post cause i'm in the beach and i'm writing in my phone.
I just registered now to tell you that mono green aggro with blood moon is really a competitive deck maybe tier one, the thing is we just started exploring this splash.
I can't buy it right now but testing it online through non official pages i've realised that atarka's commamd lightning bolt and Hazzoret with Rhonas are good additions to the splash red list.
Sorry for my english im not a native speaker or writer but i try...
Congrats on the primer is awesome
First of all, thank you! The primer is almost done, and I'm really happy to hear it's helping a lot of people!
Secondly, the splash sounds interesting! I myself have questions regarding Hazoret the Fervent (especially when it comes to the mana cost), but I would love to see your list, your card choices and your findings when testing it.
And don't worry about your English, it is more than good enough!
G Mono Green Stompy G
UR UR Delver Prowess UR
URBGrixis DelverURB
RBWMardu PyromancerRBW
I recently bought the SaffronOlive Mono Green Aggro list and I've been trying to change some of it with cards from my collection.
Had an idea after seeing the discussion about BBE, what do you guys think of Matter Reshaper?
I was considering running 3 in the main alongside a Rhonas and 2 Leatherback Baloth, with 2 Hashep Oasis in the utility slots and going down a Treetop Village for a single Mutavault to produce the colorless mana.
I figured it would be nice to have a beater that could give you a free chance at a Rhonas or Baloth on death. At worst, you'd get a land to your hand or cast a pump spell. I'm not sure if that would be enough colorless mana to reliably run it, or how useful it would be. I'd like to hear your thoughts on it!
I was also wondering if someone could let me know where I could find an up to date red splash list. I have a playset of Simian Spirit Guide that I've been trying to cram into a deck for the longest time, and I wanted to see if it could work with Stompy in some capacity.
Thanks!
To reliably cast a card with a colourless requirement you would need 8-12 colourless sources. To see an example of this, look up any list of Death & Taxes. That deck regularly splashes colourless for various Eldrazi creatures. Some lists splash for as little as the activation cost of Eldrazi Displacer and yet they still run 12+ colourless sources (yes, I know they use some of the lands for other purposes too). So your idea of splashing Matter Reshaper off 3 sources is ill-advised to say the least. It also runs completely counter to the strengths of Stompy, some of which are maximizing Aspect of Hydra, being resistant to Blood Moon and being resistant to Ghost Quarter.
As for your idea of using Simian Spirit Guide, I don't think that's a sound plan either. Having a playset of the card isn't a reason alone to use it. You'd need to have red cards you want to play, a reason why those red cards are better than what the deck already runs and most importantly a good reason why those cards should be ramped out with a Spirit Guide. Spending a whole extra card to pay for something is a massive cost and you should have a very good reason for doing so. I don't think such a reason exists for Stompy.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
That is a good point, the detriment to our strategy is too great to really justify running it.
Another thought, If we're running 4 drops in the sideboard, should we be running 22 lands? And has anyone experimented with a leaner version with less 3 drops and 20 lands? I'm just running 21 by default but I'm trying to figure out when I can/should be running 20 or 22.
No problem at all Deck advice is what this thread is for after all. If you want any further advice feel free to post your current deck list and I'll gladly take a look.
I think that 20/21 is the right number of lands in order to successfully play a land and a threat every turn. If you're running 2 or 3 four drops probably 22 lands are required. I have a list in which I run 20 lands (19 forests and 1 TTV) and there are 6 three drops and a single CoCo and seems fine for me. I've tested a lot with 21/22 lands but I was often flooding so I decided to reduce the land count to 20 and now it performs well.
G Mono Green Stompy G
UR UR Delver Prowess UR
URBGrixis DelverURB
RBWMardu PyromancerRBW