Anyone have any suggestions for a slightly more budget friendly replacement for Arcbound Ravager? I'm going to build the Tezzy version (I already had 3 Tezzy's from a former Standard deck), but I'm not sure yet how much Modern is going to take off in our playgroup so I don't feel like spending 80 bucks for a playset quite yet. I was thinking something that costs 2 or less with evasion of some sort. Maybe Arcbound Stinger or Trespassing Souleater (which seems good with Cranial Plating). Or even main boarding a couple Spellskites. I'm not completely sure, what do you guys think?
Anyone have any suggestions for a slightly more budget friendly replacement for Arcbound Ravager?
There's been quite a bit of debate on whether Ravager is better than card X or Y, and from a budget standpoint the answer is always no, so I wouldn't lose any sleep over swapping it with Etched Champion, Steel Overseer, or some other Affinity friendly card. Here's a winner with no Ravager.
And, there's often debate over three Mox or four, and that's an easy budget choice as well.
Is also playable and budget friendly. The deck has it's optimal best cards, but can be pretty flexible. Having at least three Mox is the one big cost it's hard to do without.
Well, I was thinking of picking this deck up on MTGO (if so, then probably the blue lists from GP Lyon), but I'm just so unsure if this deck is any good in the current online-meta.
Sounds as if you'd had to play many mirrors (that basically come down to either who has more Plating or H.Recall) and while Jund seems to be a pretty good MU Infect looks pretty ugly to me, but then again I only goldfished the deck a little on MWS.
Also I feel like the deck has it'S great moments with lots of choices and stuff going on and then again you get your hand eaten by a single Pyroclasm and don't manage to pressure them before their 5th turn Karn / 4th turn Wurmcoil (assuming they used their 2nd turn for Pyroclasm).
For reference I'm using mtgo-stats whcih tells me the following:
17% Jund
17% Infect
12% Mirror
8% Lifegain
6% Tron
4% each Pod and Storm.
What's your thoughts on pickung up Affinity in such a meta?
Me and my group have done quite a bit of testing for GP Chicago, and I can tell you now, Affinity is one of 3 decks on the list I would play.
Well, I was thinking of picking this deck up on MTGO (if so, then probably the blue lists from GP Lyon), but I'm just so unsure if this deck is any good in the current online-meta.
Sounds as if you'd had to play many mirrors (that basically come down to either who has more Plating or H.Recall) and while Jund seems to be a pretty good MU Infect looks pretty ugly to me, but then again I only goldfished the deck a little on MWS.
Also I feel like the deck has it'S great moments with lots of choices and stuff going on and then again you get your hand eaten by a single Pyroclasm and don't manage to pressure them before their 5th turn Karn / 4th turn Wurmcoil (assuming they used their 2nd turn for Pyroclasm).
For reference I'm using mtgo-stats whcih tells me the following:
17% Jund
17% Infect
12% Mirror
8% Lifegain
6% Tron
4% each Pod and Storm.
What's your thoughts on pickung up Affinity in such a meta?
How did you get those percentages?
And are you suggesting that 33% of decks have less than 3% representation?
----------
Affinity is a good deck. But it won't be every week. Same as any other combo deck.
My Modern experience is limited to Cockatrice and a few in person games with other people, but my experience in using Affinity (my modern deck of choice), is this:
Affinity is a hyper fast aggro deck (duh) that has a lot of evasive creatures with reasonably costed abilities. Etched Champion for example is essentially a tiny Progenitus in this deck. It is really difficult to remove and doubles up as a borderline unblockable/indestructible creature in terms of combat damage against most decks not in the Mirror. It also has access to some of the best burn in terms of damage to mana (Galvanic Blast, Shrapnel Blast), potentially the most effective draw spell legal in Legacy, nevermind Modern (Thoughtcast), rainbow manabases with a very irrelevant drawback in Affinity (Glimmervoid, Mox Opal), as well as powerful removal (Dispatch). A near completely colorless creature base makes it very easy to run most and potentially all of these in a combined mainboard/sideboard, and gives Affinity a lot of potential answers to the format, making it an exceedingly flexible deck.
Against Infect, Affinity is in the odd position of being the slower deck, but SBing Dispatch to support Galvanic blast gives you a lot of removal against a relatively creature light deck you also have plenty of creatures to chump with if you really need to.
Etched Champion is almost useless in the mirror and in my opinion is one of the reasons it's seeing decline in the mainboard given the apparent increase in Affinity's success. This is really a race of who gets going first. I really think Thoughtcast can help here so you can avoid being in topdeck mode. I also think burn is better off used as soft removal against relevant threats unless you can get the KO that turn by shooting someone in the face.
Outside Storm I've never faced many combo decks. People tell me that most combo decks nowadays are of the Scapeshift variety and it makes Thoughtcast's draw more important than the extra burn from Shrapnel Blast. I can't say firsthand though. Where Storm is concerned. Ethersworn Canonist is nice. Again, this is sort of a race though. Sometimes they'll kill you T2-3 before you can do anything. Other times you'll do the same to them.
Blood Moon, if you are a mostly Red deck or feel you have enough basic land/artifact mana sources to cover non red cost, can also really hurt a lot of decks in this meta due to a reliance on dual lands and fetch lands.
Just remember that even though Affinity has a lot of good answers to the rest of the Modern Metagame, especially post board, it is very easy for decks to hate on artifacts as well, and thus a lot of decks will also have an answer for you.
Again could you say how you calculated those exact percentages? Is it from some site? Is it based on 3-1+ in dailies? Over what time frame etc...
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My experience is that tron and life gain are good matchups if they don't have specific hate. Once Life has 4 Stony Silences the matchup is miserable. More paths for them also makes it hard.
My most recent affinity lists have galvanic blast and dark confidant main. The former in direct response to my expectation in an increase of Twin and Infect. But I haven't really tested it a ton. I am planning to NOT play affinity at Chicago this weekend.
Decked Studios runs it, along with the Decked app. They get their %'s from dailies 3-1 and greater. of course with the restriction its harder, but u can also look at Blippy's thread for similar info.
I do believe running Blast is better, however I'm still fighting between your list Toor and Ari Lax's. I agree with him that having burn/drawing cranial plating ala steelshaper's gift is good, however i agree with your team in that having a higher threat density allows thoughtcast to be insanely helpful.
I'm working on multiple lists, however modern has hit a stagnant part for me honestly :/
Np. As a fellow Canadian and aspiring pro (mdos will hopefully help, along with GP Calgary) if you need anything else let me know. I follow you and the rest of the team closely #TeamManaDeprived
Can someone please explain to me why Arcbound Ravager is so good in afinity? As I see it, its just a 1/1 that gets to give another creature its counters when it dies.
What are we sacing in the deck to put more counters on Arcbound?
Arcbound Ravager is similar to Dark Confidant in the way that its in game performance ends up a lot better than the card text suggests. Arcbound Ravager is a bag of tricks inside and outside combat, either pumping up a creature to survive a combat turn, pumping an unblocked creature for lethal, saccing a creature to avoid losing it to say...Vedalken Shackles, dumping your extra Mox Opals for more mana that turn to play that Etched Champion or instant speed Cranial Plating (though one of the black mana would be mainphase, but the option would be open in the combat phase with a second Mox), and Modular itself can be really good with Steel Overseer throwing out counters like candy.
[...] dumping your extra Mox Opals for more mana that turn to play that Etched Champion or instant speed Cranial Plating (though one of the black mana would be mainphase, but the option would be open in the combat phase with a second Mox)[...]
This is not true, as mana pools are emptied between steps and phases. Mana produced in your mainphase will disappear from your mana pool if you are going to your combat phase.
Hey guys, been playing around with affinity for legacy and modern for a while now and I was wondering why the modern affinity primer is running inkmoth nexus.
In the legacy thread, it was established that having two different avenues (damage and poison) makes for bad top decks, especially if you're playing the red affinity variant. Why then, is modern different? I understand that an inkmoth equip with a plating can make for a very short game, but if it was discouraged in legacy, where we have a full suite of artifact lands, why are we pushing it in modern?
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They call me Hank Hill because I bring the pro-pain.
Hey guys, been playing around with affinity for legacy and modern for a while now and I was wondering why the modern affinity primer is running inkmoth nexus.
In the legacy thread, it was established that having two different avenues (damage and poison) makes for bad top decks, especially if you're playing the red affinity variant. Why then, is modern different? I understand that an inkmoth equip with a plating can make for a very short game, but if it was discouraged in legacy, where we have a full suite of artifact lands, why are we pushing it in modern?
What land are you going to use instead of inkmoth nexus? Playing 8 man lands represent more threats your opponent has to deal with.
I actually run 4 copies of inkmoth nexas lands. And to be honest they are absolutely amazing and should not be underestimated. They often grant their own win con and have been known to be game winners for me. Especially with cranial plating. They have even been known to pull out wins for me when they plan to take the 1 poison and block the 11/x creature already equiped. Boom instant switch, instant win. Because of the poison it can also draw agro away from more important things on the board. Plus tez can pump it to a 5/5 infector and they can can to make themselves artifacts when necessary to add the the count.
The only reason they should be doing that is if they cannot block fliers. If they can, they're idiots. If they cant', you win regardless of which man land you have.
Also, yes, Tezz can turn your Inkmoth into a 5/5 Infect for 1 turn, then what? You think it's viable to use another counter on your land. If it were Blinkmoth, you could just keep swinging with your 5/5, as it has already dealt damage. And again, if it was a viable option to -1 Tezz again to turn your 1/1 Flying Infect into a 5/5 Flying Infect, you should be winning that game regardless of which man land you play.
So, as I stated again when Inkmoth was first suggested, what is he ACTUALLY doing for this deck that Blinkmoth cannot? Because he literally seems worse more situations than good ones, because if you plug Blinkmoth into all those good situations, he's just as good, where if you plug Blinkmoth into the situations were Inkmoth is bad, Blinkmoth seems fantastic.
This is posted in the Legacy primer, this is what I'm getting at, playing inkmoth because "well we need more manlands" seems a little shaky, it doesn't contribute to the main plan. We have 3 - 4 infectors in the deck. So after 3 turns of swinging with tons of artifact weenies, and shrapnel blasting them, and bringing your opponent down to 6 life, you draw an inkmoth, ... what then? you can keep swinging with damage AND infect?
Or lets say you start off with a few inkmoths and they get dealt with, your opponent is now at 3 poison and 20 life and you need to catch up on the damage race because you lost those 2 sources of infect and can't afford to wait to draw another. What I'm getting at is it seems incredibly awkward.
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They call me Hank Hill because I bring the pro-pain.
This is posted in the Legacy primer, this is what I'm getting at, playing inkmoth because "well we need more manlands" seems a little shaky, it doesn't contribute to the main plan. We have 3 - 4 infectors in the deck. So after 3 turns of swinging with tons of artifact weenies, and shrapnel blasting them, and bringing your opponent down to 6 life, you draw an inkmoth, ... what then? you can keep swinging with damage AND infect?
Or lets say you start off with a few inkmoths and they get dealt with, your opponent is now at 3 poison and 20 life and you need to catch up on the damage race because you lost those 2 sources of infect and can't afford to wait to draw another. What I'm getting at is it seems incredibly awkward.
Legacy Affinity does not need Infect to win, as it is a faster, more consistent deck. They will, reliably, be able to cast Tezz on turn 2-3. Modern Affinity can't reliably cast Tezz at all.
It's also your best avenue to beat Jund, as they have all but 1 card in their deck that can deal with a 4/4 or bigger Inkmoth Nexus.
Here is the affinity deck I was working on for Chicago (I played a Jund deck which is much better choice right now).
4 Glimmervoid
8 nexus
4 Darksteel
4 Pest, skirge, thopter, memnite, ravager, plating, galvanic blast, springleaf drum, mox opal
3 dark confidant
2 Overseer, master of etherium
1 Welding Jar
SB:
4 Etched Champion
2 Rest in Peace
3 Canonist or Rule of Law
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Torpor Orb (For Twin, UW, Pod)
2 Seal of Primordium (this was basically exclusively for Stony Silence).
I wanted to experiment with cutting Blinkmoths (i would never in a million years cut inkmoths) for more colored sources and maybe playing some more versatile sb cards (Tezz, Decay or something else).
ive found in my admittedly limited testing that my main creature threats (master/ overseer) end up dying. a lot. plating and ravager help a lot, but i would like to have something that doesnt get shut down by stony silence. I've really only tested against Death and Taxes (which my friend runs), but i feel like I would like to be able to win through it without multiple signal pests.
and the reason i didnt post a sb is becasue i dont have one :]
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what is the best iteration of affinity in modern? are there a few that rotate around as the meta rotates?
also, what are common thoughtseize targets?
what makes thoughtseize better than duress in modern?
which matchups do i want etched champions in?
is the single island for path?
i assume inkmoths and blinkmoths are optimal, but is the inkmoth an actual kill condition or just something you can activate to have another artifact?
is welding jar any good?
is tezzeret any good?
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There's been quite a bit of debate on whether Ravager is better than card X or Y, and from a budget standpoint the answer is always no, so I wouldn't lose any sleep over swapping it with Etched Champion, Steel Overseer, or some other Affinity friendly card. Here's a winner with no Ravager.
And, there's often debate over three Mox or four, and that's an easy budget choice as well.
A land base of:
Is also playable and budget friendly. The deck has it's optimal best cards, but can be pretty flexible. Having at least three Mox is the one big cost it's hard to do without.
Me and my group have done quite a bit of testing for GP Chicago, and I can tell you now, Affinity is one of 3 decks on the list I would play.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
How did you get those percentages?
And are you suggesting that 33% of decks have less than 3% representation?
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Affinity is a good deck. But it won't be every week. Same as any other combo deck.
">Helping to Invent Thopter/Depths in Old Ext
Creator of the Magic Humor Videos:
The Vintage Metagame The Original
Affinity is a hyper fast aggro deck (duh) that has a lot of evasive creatures with reasonably costed abilities. Etched Champion for example is essentially a tiny Progenitus in this deck. It is really difficult to remove and doubles up as a borderline unblockable/indestructible creature in terms of combat damage against most decks not in the Mirror. It also has access to some of the best burn in terms of damage to mana (Galvanic Blast, Shrapnel Blast), potentially the most effective draw spell legal in Legacy, nevermind Modern (Thoughtcast), rainbow manabases with a very irrelevant drawback in Affinity (Glimmervoid, Mox Opal), as well as powerful removal (Dispatch). A near completely colorless creature base makes it very easy to run most and potentially all of these in a combined mainboard/sideboard, and gives Affinity a lot of potential answers to the format, making it an exceedingly flexible deck.
Against Lifegain, Affinity can use something like Inkmoth Nexus. Its infect paired with pump from Master of Etherium, Cranial Plating or Steel Overseer, combined with last minute counters from Arcbound Ravager gives Affinity an out if straight beatdown doesn't work.
Against Infect, Affinity is in the odd position of being the slower deck, but SBing Dispatch to support Galvanic blast gives you a lot of removal against a relatively creature light deck you also have plenty of creatures to chump with if you really need to.
Etched Champion is almost useless in the mirror and in my opinion is one of the reasons it's seeing decline in the mainboard given the apparent increase in Affinity's success. This is really a race of who gets going first. I really think Thoughtcast can help here so you can avoid being in topdeck mode. I also think burn is better off used as soft removal against relevant threats unless you can get the KO that turn by shooting someone in the face.
Outside Storm I've never faced many combo decks. People tell me that most combo decks nowadays are of the Scapeshift variety and it makes Thoughtcast's draw more important than the extra burn from Shrapnel Blast. I can't say firsthand though. Where Storm is concerned. Ethersworn Canonist is nice. Again, this is sort of a race though. Sometimes they'll kill you T2-3 before you can do anything. Other times you'll do the same to them.
Blood Moon, if you are a mostly Red deck or feel you have enough basic land/artifact mana sources to cover non red cost, can also really hurt a lot of decks in this meta due to a reliance on dual lands and fetch lands.
Just remember that even though Affinity has a lot of good answers to the rest of the Modern Metagame, especially post board, it is very easy for decks to hate on artifacts as well, and thus a lot of decks will also have an answer for you.
U Memnarch
RWU Zedruu the Greathearted
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
-----------
My experience is that tron and life gain are good matchups if they don't have specific hate. Once Life has 4 Stony Silences the matchup is miserable. More paths for them also makes it hard.
My most recent affinity lists have galvanic blast and dark confidant main. The former in direct response to my expectation in an increase of Twin and Infect. But I haven't really tested it a ton. I am planning to NOT play affinity at Chicago this weekend.
">Helping to Invent Thopter/Depths in Old Ext
Creator of the Magic Humor Videos:
The Vintage Metagame The Original
MTGO-Stats
Decked Studios runs it, along with the Decked app. They get their %'s from dailies 3-1 and greater. of course with the restriction its harder, but u can also look at Blippy's thread for similar info.
I do believe running Blast is better, however I'm still fighting between your list Toor and Ari Lax's. I agree with him that having burn/drawing cranial plating ala steelshaper's gift is good, however i agree with your team in that having a higher threat density allows thoughtcast to be insanely helpful.
I'm working on multiple lists, however modern has hit a stagnant part for me honestly :/
we shall see going forward
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
">Helping to Invent Thopter/Depths in Old Ext
Creator of the Magic Humor Videos:
The Vintage Metagame The Original
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
What are we sacing in the deck to put more counters on Arcbound?
U Memnarch
RWU Zedruu the Greathearted
This is not true, as mana pools are emptied between steps and phases. Mana produced in your mainphase will disappear from your mana pool if you are going to your combat phase.
In the legacy thread, it was established that having two different avenues (damage and poison) makes for bad top decks, especially if you're playing the red affinity variant. Why then, is modern different? I understand that an inkmoth equip with a plating can make for a very short game, but if it was discouraged in legacy, where we have a full suite of artifact lands, why are we pushing it in modern?
What land are you going to use instead of inkmoth nexus? Playing 8 man lands represent more threats your opponent has to deal with.
This is posted in the Legacy primer, this is what I'm getting at, playing inkmoth because "well we need more manlands" seems a little shaky, it doesn't contribute to the main plan. We have 3 - 4 infectors in the deck. So after 3 turns of swinging with tons of artifact weenies, and shrapnel blasting them, and bringing your opponent down to 6 life, you draw an inkmoth, ... what then? you can keep swinging with damage AND infect?
Or lets say you start off with a few inkmoths and they get dealt with, your opponent is now at 3 poison and 20 life and you need to catch up on the damage race because you lost those 2 sources of infect and can't afford to wait to draw another. What I'm getting at is it seems incredibly awkward.
Legacy Affinity does not need Infect to win, as it is a faster, more consistent deck. They will, reliably, be able to cast Tezz on turn 2-3. Modern Affinity can't reliably cast Tezz at all.
It's also your best avenue to beat Jund, as they have all but 1 card in their deck that can deal with a 4/4 or bigger Inkmoth Nexus.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
4 Glimmervoid
8 nexus
4 Darksteel
4 Pest, skirge, thopter, memnite, ravager, plating, galvanic blast, springleaf drum, mox opal
3 dark confidant
2 Overseer, master of etherium
1 Welding Jar
SB:
4 Etched Champion
2 Rest in Peace
3 Canonist or Rule of Law
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Torpor Orb (For Twin, UW, Pod)
2 Seal of Primordium (this was basically exclusively for Stony Silence).
I wanted to experiment with cutting Blinkmoths (i would never in a million years cut inkmoths) for more colored sources and maybe playing some more versatile sb cards (Tezz, Decay or something else).
">Helping to Invent Thopter/Depths in Old Ext
Creator of the Magic Humor Videos:
The Vintage Metagame The Original
ive been lurking around these threads for a while and i would like some input
my list, for reference:
3 Master of Etherium
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Signal Pest
4 Steel Overseer
4 Vault Skirge
4 Cranial Plating
4 Mox Opal
4 Springleaf Drum
4 Thoughtcast
4 Darksteel Citadel
3 Glimmervoid
4 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Island
my question is about this : Tempered Steel
ive found in my admittedly limited testing that my main creature threats (master/ overseer) end up dying. a lot. plating and ravager help a lot, but i would like to have something that doesnt get shut down by stony silence. I've really only tested against Death and Taxes (which my friend runs), but i feel like I would like to be able to win through it without multiple signal pests.
and the reason i didnt post a sb is becasue i dont have one :]
"Nice to meet you-"
"COME OUT WITH YOUR HANDS UP!"
"-hostages!"
i was planning on just net-decking this until i understand modern better (4th at gp)
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=9746&iddeck=71159
is this a general good list, or a meta choice?
what is the best iteration of affinity in modern? are there a few that rotate around as the meta rotates?
also, what are common thoughtseize targets?
what makes thoughtseize better than duress in modern?
which matchups do i want etched champions in?
is the single island for path?
i assume inkmoths and blinkmoths are optimal, but is the inkmoth an actual kill condition or just something you can activate to have another artifact?
is welding jar any good?
is tezzeret any good?
UWUW ControlUW
UGWSpiritsUGW
GHardened ScalesG
WGRUKiki PodWGRU [RIP]