Quote from Kylebrennan92Advice appreciated. I really like your ideas on Boros Charm compared to Helix. However, Helix has the massive upside of hitting creatures. In a Sligh build (that Goblins is) it needs removal. I also must admit I agree with the Cage evaluation. It is really against Pod but I think their could be better hate.
Quote from Mongol
I definitely agree that the low-curve Aggro version and the Vial version are completely different decks that just happen to share some cards and that there strategies and approaches are drastically different.
As for which is better, it is definitely possible that there is a superior Vial version out there that is the best. However, I strongly feel that the low-curve aggro version is superior for a few reasons.
First of all, much of the appeal of a slower Aether Vial version comes from the power of many cards that are not Modern legal. Playing high curve, more powerful goblins is much better when Goblin Lackey and Goblin Warchief are around to help power them out early. Furthermore, that version has card advantage in the form of Gempalm Incinerator, Goblin Matron and Goblin Ringleader that are not available in Modern. Finally, Aether Vial is far better in that deck since it uses Wasteland and Rishadan Port to greatly slow other decks while still putting goblins on the table. There are also much more powerful counterspells, in legacy that are avoided with Vial.
In Modern, there aren't replacements for most of these things. There isn't a reliable source of card advantage or tutoring, there aren't as many ways to cheat out creatures and there aren't the same amount of non-basic lands to play. There are not as many devastating, early counterspells like Daze, Hydroblast and Force of Will. This means that the most efficient way to attack the opponent, with the available card pool, is to be as fast as possible while leveraging certain tribal synergies.
Aether Vial is just far too slow in this type of deck. You would much rather be playing your 1-mana goblins or token makers as quickly as possible to be followed up by a Lord or other pump effect. You don't have the time to use Vial to play around their sweepers and counter spells (which Boros Charm and Cavern of Souls can respectively do while also being proactive cards).
Basically, Ghost Quarter, Tectonic Edge, Lead the Stampede and Warren Instigator just don't cut it, in my view at replacing their Legacy equivalents.
Quote from jweltFirst of all I think your primer is amazing! Go Goblins for moving to the established section!
Second - IMHO this is a meta game choice as well as a play-style choice. Sure, the mono red fast paced version of this deck is receiving some much needed attention right now (as it should), but how many people are actually testing Aether Vial with Lead the Stampede? It seems that because of the recent printing of boros charm, Skullcrack, and "extort" (such as on the card Blind Obedience) you might be playing in a burn-heavy meta. Which type of build is going to be better in your average burn matchup? I would put my money on the deck with better card advantage (LtS). Also, if you would like to reference it - I have been testing Modern goblins for a while with the following build as my most recent. People need to know that R/G Vial+LtS is a viable option (as you kind of hint at in the primer).
The Goblin Stampede...
Mongol's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Creatures (30)4x Goblin Guide4x Legion Loyalist4x Mogg War Marshal4x Warren Instigator4x Goblin Chieftain4x Goblin King2x Krenko, Mob Boss2x Siege-Gang CommanderOther Spells (8)4x Lead the Stampede4x Aether VialLand (22)10x Mountain4x Copperline Gorge4x Rootbound Crag (**)4x Cavern of SoulsSide Board4x Stigma Lasher4x Tin Street Hooligan4x Goblin Grenade3x Magus of the Moon
Those who try it might find this deck less matchup dependent, better at recovering, and that it plays similar to a legacy goblin deck swinging in for the whole 20 at once (with the random T4 kill still possible but not consistent).
** Rootbound Crag and a couple mountains should be switched out for 4-6x Fetches and 2-4x Stomping Ground in a meta with less burn than mine (TY Franx).
This is by no means a comprehensive explanation of this style of deck, more of a spoiler for an alternate style of modern goblin deck that I have had some limited success with.
On a side note - some people might argue that Warren Instigator is worth keeping around because of its DS ability, with the lackey-effect being an added bonus (especially in combination with Legion Loyalist for trample).
Quote from chiisairamenPosted this in the other goblin thread, didn't know there's a primer
Franx13's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Lands18 Mountain2 Cavern of SoulsCreatures4 Foundry Street Denizen4 Goblin Guide4 Legion Loyalist4 Goblin Bushwhacker4 Mogg War Marshal4 Goblin ChieftainSorcery4 Goblin Grenade4 Krenko's Command3 Dragon FodderInstant4 Lightning BoltEnchantment2 Shared Animosity
If there are any questions about my list, i will do my best to answer them
Quote from SaintSHey there, I've been testing a lot in the last days and I find myself pretty happy with the vial build I am playing (the R/W one)
But I found myself losing to an infect deck playing the 2/2 knight pro red (sorry I forgot the name). A little question I have is Stingscourger able to bounce him? Is it a trigger ability or is the creature targeting it? I'm sorry if that is a stupid question but I am pretty bad with the ruling
Quote from tjabZI used to love goblins back when onslaught still was extended legal. I like how your list is looking and will try it for now. You miscalculated the number of creatures and still have two slots left. I filled them with Stingscourger to have something to impact the board a bit. Also adjusted the manabase to
1 stomping ground
4 cavern of souls
Issues I have with the list is that it's very low on removal. Really miss the gempalms :<
Quote from SpikexWhat does everyone think of this list which I found recently?
Quote from Kylebrennan92
Round 4 Junk Doran 0-2. How the hell do we beat this guys? T2 Tarmogoyf into T3 Doran is unbeatable for us in my eyes. T1 Noble Hierarch into T2 Doran hurts more.
Quote from headleySo the Dragon's Maze spoiler seems to suggest that elf-ball might be a thing again. What's our plan in this matchup? If I have a Mogg Fanatic should I pop off the first elf I see or should I wait to snipe something important like a Heritage Druid?