Quote from Jordan Boisvert »Bolt is integral to Modern tempo decks since it’s more efficient and versatile than anything else in the format. tempo always needs a specific tool to carry out its gameplan, explaining its reliance on cantrips. With its capability to either remove a creature or burn an opponent for one mana, Bolt embodies multiple tools in a single card at the lowest possible price.
Quote from slipknot72102 »the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Quote from JaceTheWalletShredder
Ehrmagersh, a new deck is doing well. Breakz out de banhammerz!
Quote from ValanarchI am a fan of Delver decks, but is the splash for Goyf, Ooze, and Ancient Grudge really worth it over the white splash for Rest in Peace, Geist of Saint Traft, Path to Exile, and Suppression Field?
Quote from LemonbusterIn regards to your list, increasing the creature count with ooze is something i've always considered but wasnt sure what I would cut. My real question about ooze is how often do you wait to cast him? do you wait until you can pump him in response to bolt? There are a lot of games where I only have access to one green mana, so he is quite vulnerable for possibly the next two turns and only if I get a chance to pay for it. I dont know how different your mana base is, but it seems like in my list he would play out much differently from goyfs 5-7, because unlike goyf, I don't necessarily know that i'm going to get to untap with him.
Quote from TakeYourShoesOffI have always liked RUG Delver, but unlike Valanarch I dont think UWR Delver is better than RUG, I do think that Grixes Delver is better though. Anyway! I did a little research and here is a pretty stock list that has won a GP, 2nd a GP, and 3 other Top 8 in GPs.
ashtonkutcher's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Creatures (14)4 Delver of Secrets4 Snapcaster Mage4 Tarmogoyf2 Vendilion CliquePlaneswalkers (1)1 Jace Beleren (goes between Jace, and Garruk Relentless)Lands (21)1 Forest6 Island1 Mountain2 Breeding Pool4 Misty Rainforest4 Scalding Tarn2 Steam Vents1 Stomping GroundSpells (24)2 Vedalken Shackles2 Burst Lightning2 Cryptic Command4 Lightning Bolt4 Mana Leak2 Spell Pierce2 Spell Snare2 Eleztrolyze4 Serum VisionsSideboard2 Relic of Progenitus3 Huntmaster of the Fells3 Blood Moon2 Threads of Disloyalty2 Ancient Grudge1 Combust1 Negate1 Spell Pierce
Quote from Ashton KutcherI'd say no. Geist isn't amazing in Delver IMO since he requires you to tap out on turn 3, though I'll admit that he's a beast when he sticks. Dies to all sorts of blockers (Snapcaster Mage) and the 3-cost opens you up to lots of tempo-gaining plays for the opponent (Remand, etc.). Additionally, Path to Exile in a Mana Leak deck almost never works, especially when you don't have a threat online. UWR has access to less threats (unless you run Restoration Angel, but she doesn't come online until turn 4!), so that's more of an issue. And finally, it's really hard to come up with a decent UWR manabase that doesn't fold to Blood Moon. I always cream UWR with this deck.
Quote from ValanarchI can see your point about Geist, but WUR doesn't run less threats (4 Young Pyromancer, 3 Geist, 4 Delver) and it isn't any more vulnerable to Blood Moon than RUG is. It also has a better sideboard. However, I hope that you can make this work. Having more Delver decks in the meta is always a good thing to see.
Quote from Ashton KutcherPyromancer and Delver alongside Geist? In my experience, white Delver decks want Steppe Lynx as a cheap beater. Not sure the two would play that well together in an aggro shell, but to be fair, I haven't tested it. I'd think UWR Midrange, which drops Delvers entirely, would be a safer bet for that kind of strategy.
I flat out disagree with you about the manabase though. WUR needs a much heavier investment into white than RUG does into green, and as a result, it usually can't support or deal with Blood Moon. Based on the sample lists in this WUR Delver thread, it seems like the deck never goes above 2-3 nonmountain basics.
I do like the direction Hoogland is taking the deck, but it still seems like a totally different archetype than the one we play with RUG, bearing more similarities to the control-oriented Wafo-Tapa lists. Or maybe I just hate blue decks that don't run Tarmogoyf.
Speaking of lists, I updated the primer to include some recent international finishes.
Quote from ValanarchBut I really don't care which is better, the more Delver decks win, the better the format will be.
Quote from mindclicerfirst,very sorry for my poor english,
Do you think run 3 ooze,2 shackles and 3 Pillar of Flame will reduce win rate
i think your build takes too much slot to fight BGX Mid.if the deck lose advantage against combo,it lose its value.
this my newest list,
RUG, by mindclicerMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Creatures (15)4 Delver of Secrets4 Tarmogoyf2 Snapcaster Mage2 Grim Lavamancer2 Vendilion Clique1 Huntmaster of the FellsSpell(26)4 Lightning Bolt4 Serum Visions3 Remand2 Spell Snare2 Izzet Charm2 Gitaxian Probe2 Spell Pierce2 Thought Scour1 Pillar of Flame1 Cryptic Command1 Vapor Snag1 Vines of Vastwood1 Sword of Light and ShadowLands (19)5 Island4 Misty Rainforest4 Scalding Tarn2 Steam Vents1 Breeding Pool1 Stomping Ground1 Forest1 Mountain
Lavamancer and Sword of Light and Shadow is my opinion.
Lavamancer is a great card against creatures base deck,and he can absorb removal to protect delver and tarmo,i also run Vapor Snag and Vines of Vastwood for the objective.
Quote from Ashton KutcherGiven my deep love for Tarmogoyf, I do have a preference here, but I'm with you 100% - the more viable Delver archetypes in all formats, the better! A little off-topic, but have you tried RUG in Vintage? That deck is superb, most fun I've ever had playing the format.
Lately I've gone to 2 Ooze and 1 Lavamancer, and am still testing that. I don't think the Oozes hurt against combo at all; they're great against certain combo decks (Unburial Rites, Living End, Snapcaster Mage) and help against so much else in the field besides BGx. As for the Pillars, that's why they're not Magma Spray - you can go to the head with them in G1 and then side them out after if you don't want them. But you'll even want those against certain combo decks, which can run Deathrite Shaman or Goblin Electromancer. The thing is our G1 combo matchup is still really strong, especially with 5-7 counterspells MD, and it only gets much better after siding. I think the way to go is to focus on shaping the MD so that RUG can compete against its less-than-stellar matchups, since we're not even sacrificing that much of an edge against combo and since the other decks continue to increase in popularity.
Personally I think Sword of Light and Shadow might be too mana-intensive for a 19-land list but if it works for you, by all means run it. I'd rather have another counterspell in that slot. I love it as a one-of in UR Faeries though. Depending on your meta, more Lavamancers can definitely be correct. How's Vines of Vastwood going for you? Has it been relevant? Do you frequently have access to GG? I noticed you don't run Blood Moon in your 75, so that must help for Vines, but don't you ever miss it?
Quote from mindclicerif you tested ooze,and get a good result,i am very happy,i will change sword for ooze.^_^
about Vines of Vastwood,i test with jund and RG tron,the jund player is my friend and skilled player.he tell me his plan is kill all my threaten,especically delver.and dont race with me.then i find i need something to protect my creatures.
on the basis of t2 delvers experience,i once runned Mutagenic Growth.this card is very good against pyroclasm and has best tempo,but BGX has very various type removal ,Mutagenic Growth cant solve it.and its pump is little.
so i choose Vines of Vastwood.8 fetch allow me add GG when 4 lands,but it caues me additional damage.fortunately,if i want kick Vines when i has 4 lands,it meam opponent dont give me big pressure.
about Molten Rain and moon,GR tron always run 4 Nature's Claim in side,and i noticed Valakut deck run it in recent list.
delver can win alone against run few removal deck,side in moon will drop probability of delver filp.and moon cant win the game,if GR tron has Nature's Claim in hand ,it is very bad.(GR tron may play Claim and target own thing,it is a technique against any creatures deck,but Valakut deck cant,if i dont side in moon,game2 he has 3~4 usuless card)
last,sorry for my poor english again.
Quote from Dr Steve Brulei might be missing somthing i dunno, but does shackles do well most of the time? it seems as though there would be a lack of island most of the time.
Quote from RedPsiSurprise. Check out 9th place. Believe in the original deck