Do you guys think that a Legacy-esque UWR Delver deck could be viable in Modern? You pick up Path and maybe Lightning Helix? Or does it just sacrifice efficiency for not a lot if any increase in power?
I don't really think UWR Delver in modern would work the same way. One of the biggest differences between the two is having Stoneforge Mystic (which is really what you're playing white for), plus they have the free counters like Daze or Force of Will to better protect their threat(s).
I was thinking war and peace for the relevant protection but *****ty-ish triggers. I actually dont like swords that much myself but most lists i have seen are running one. why is it that a sword is not needed with YP (but is with SSS i assume?).
I think Young Pyromancer versions would prefer more instants and sorceries to give you triggers. SSS needs a way to make its SSS more of a threat.
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Currently Playing:
Modern: UWUW TronUW
Legacy: WDeath N TaxesW CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Match 1: I arrived late and received a bye. The best of both worlds?
(1-0)
Match 2: Mono Black Infect
Game 1: I play a turn 1 Delver on the draw, he plays a couple Phyrexian Crusaders, which is pretty good against the Young Pyromancers and the tokens that I have. His retraced Raven's Crime manages to discard my Snapcaster Mage, but not before I manage to Bolt him three times between Snapcaster Mage and 2 copies of Lightning Bolt. I win on turn 5 after hitting him with Delver three times (9 damage), Lightning Bolts (9 damage), and the 2 he took from Night's Whisper.
In: +1 Sword of Light and Shadow, +1 Batterskull, +1 Vendilion Clique, -1 Forked Bolt, -2 Spell Snare
Game 2: He discards my Sword of Light and Shadow and lands a Runechanter's Pike on a Phyrexian Crusader, I chump with a Delver for a turn. On the last turn, I Bolt him twice with Young Pyromancer in play. Serum Visions draws a land with Cryptic Command on top, I swing back with all my creatures but I'm 3 damage short.
Game 3: I play a turn 2 Young Pyromancer into triple Gitaxian Probe for tokens and seal the game with two Mana Leaks and a Snapcaster Mana Leak, not letting him resolve any board presence.
(2-0)
Match 3: R/W Burn
Game 1: On the play, I land an early Delver and Spell Snare two Keldon Marauders, Spell Pierce a Lightning Bolt on the Delver, and ride it to victory. I was pretty lucky to not draw any Gitaxian Probe this entire game. Bolting Goblin Guide feels good when it gives you a land. On the last turn, I had Cryptic Command backup as well.
-3 Gitaxian Probe, -1 Forked Bolt, -1 Remand, +1 Spellsite, +1 Sword of Light and Shadow, +2 Magma Spray, +1 Flame Slash
Game 2: I'm stuck on 1 land the entire game of 6 turns, not very fun at all. Lightning Bolt and Vapor Snag are great for the matchup, except when you're on 1 land.
+1 Batterskull, -1 Remand
Game 3: I land a Young Pyromancer and he lands his Keldon Marauder. He manages to bring me down to 5 life before I windmill slam a Batterskull on curve. Next turn he taps out, and I swing back with it attached onto a Delver of Secrets to gain 7 life and that's game. First place I've actually played the Batterskull ever in an organized constructed game.
(3-0)
Match 4: GW Hatebears
Game 1:
I'm on the play and I go Gitaxian Probe, I see Noble Hierarch x2, Thalia, 2x Horizon Canopy, Razorverge Thicket, Mindcensor. I play Steam Vents untapped and pass. He plays Noble Hierach, I Lightning Bolt it. Turn 2 I play a Misty Rainforest, sacrifice it for Island, and Serum Visions. He plays his Horizon Canopy and another Noble Hierach. Turn 3 I play Delver of Secrets and leave up Mana Leak, he plays Thalia and I Spell Snare it. Delver of Secret flips, and I start clocking him with it Mana Leak back ups. He plays Blade Splicer, I Mana Leak it. He plays Mindcensor, I Electrolyze Noble Hierarch and the Mindcensor. He plays another Blade Splicer, I Snapcaster Mana Leak it. And that's game because of the damage he was taking from the Horizon Canopy.
-1 Serum Visions, -1 Gitaxian Probe, - 3 Remand, +1 Flame Slash, +1 Vendilion Clique, +1 Sword of Light and Shadow, 2 Magma Spray
Game 2:
Turn 1, he plays Noble Hiearch and passes, I play Steam Vents for Magma Spray and ship the turn. Turn 2 I believe he plays Burrenton Forge-Tender and passes. I then play Delver of Secrets and Grim Lavamancer. Turn 3 he lands on Chalice of the Void on 1, and ships it back. I miss a Delver of Secrets trigger drawing a Spell Pierce, I play my land pass it back to him. I draw step Vendilion Clique him to take out his Choke and see that he has another copy of Chalice of the Void and some Blade Splicers. Luckily for me, my Delver of Secret flips anyway and I start cracking back for 6 a turn, which outraces his Blade Splicers. Despite having an unplayable hand of Lightning Bolt, Lightning Bolt, Spell Pierce, and Grim Lavamancer, I win off the back of the flyers.
(4-0)
I've been in the prize pool for the last 5 times I've played with the deck, and someone else drew with me for first place when I swapped this deck for his Affinity deck. I can say that the list feels good, it has answers for most things, and for everything else there's Cryptic Command. I want to have the Vendilion Clique back in the main, it's just such a powerhouse at 19 lands, I want to bring it in every game especially after sideboard so that I can get rid of hate cards like Choke while also putting a threat on the table. I'm not sure about the number of Gitaxian Probes. On the one hand, it's very good for outplaying your opponent and knowing which counters to have which turn, particularly in the GW Hatebear deck where I saw his whole hand and had the appropriate counter every step of the way. On the other hand, having multiple Gitaxian Probes on the play against Burn or Affinity is just asking to get owned.
Swords are meta specific, they're helpful for the longer games, and when you've the right protections, it's extremely powerful. I used to run Sword of Fire and Ice, but because of the W heavy meta and the two burn decks in my meta, I've switched to Sword of Light and Shadow on the board. I know some lists also run Sword of Feast and Famine, which is for more control type games.
Thank you for the tournament reports, guys! Just a quick question: the deck struggles against 4+ toughness creatures (Resto, Colonnade, Goyf, Courser, Exarch, Wall of Omens, etc.). I run 4x Vapor Snag in the main and it's usually very good but there are times I wish it was Dismember. Thoughts on Dismember vs Vapor Snag?
Actually, since I'm here, I'll share some other thoughts.
Spell Pierce does a lot of work when we're trying to curve out with a threat and protection. It also messes up a lot of decks tempo (beats Cryptic, Chord, Rev, Liliana, Batterskull, etc.). I think running 2+ in the main is the way to go. I'm partial to 3-4 because I run 16 lands and don't always have 4 mana for Pyro + Remand. Also hits turn 1 Map, Vial, and Thoughtseize on the play.
Forked Bolt is really good. I think that it should be in the main with Pillar in the side. Being able to hit Bob and Lili for 1, take out 2 dorks, ravage Affinity's board, and get rid of tokens/weenies on the ground for Pyro to get through is great. And killing their x/1 and pinging them to the dome is relevant for this deck; how many times have you had them down to 4 and had the Bolt? Better than the 3CMC Electrolyze in this deck, IMO.
I think Remand should be a 4-of. We are a tempo deck and it is the tempo card. Additionally, we don't have much card advantage, and being able to counter something for a turn without being down a card is huge. We lose when we topdeck; the deck thrives on having cheap answers. Sure, it's not always great, but it cantrips and that is huge. Using Mana Leak to trade 1-for-1 is suicide in the long run because most decks have a better card quality on average.
Spell Snare is awesome. It makes up for our awful position we're in on the draw and hits 80% of the problem cards for the deck. I wouldn't drop below 2.
Vendilion Clique is an all-star. It does everything the deck needs. I actually find it a better maindeck inclusion than Grim, which has been disappointing a lot of the time for me. I just don't find myself having the grave mass to support it early enough and it doesn't get rid of the big threats, which Clique does. Clique also presents an unconditional clock if left unanswered and requires no mana commitment on your own turn. It's just so good.
I play in my first FNM with UR Delver and did okay (2-2, loses were mainly just from inexperience with the deck). My metagame of maybe 30 players consists of mostly all budget decks, it's rare to see many decks playing with a fetchland mana base. I have seen absolutely no Pod or Jund style midrange decks. The most prevalent deck is Affinity with something like 4 or 5 players, there's also a few Infect and Burn players around, a GR Tron and a couple UWx Midrange/Aggro decks have popped too. Here's my 75 I played on Friday, it's close to LSV's list but I've made a few changes.
Here's my proposed changes if I play it again next week (I'll have everything to play UR Twin by Friday):
Mainboard
-1 Mana Leak
+1 Spell Pierce
Sideboard
-1 Mamga Spray
-1 Dispel
+1 Forked Bolt
+1 Sword of Light and Shadow
I was considering playing with a second Spell Pierce in the main, it was always really good when I hand it in my opening hand, but other than that my mainboard felt very solid. As for the sideboard, I'm tempted to play a Forked Bolt over Magma Spray and possibly jam a Sword of Light and Shadow in there as an additional card against Burn that also helps against grindy decks (that BW Tokens event deck can be difficult given maindeck Zealous Persecution). I like Molten Rain over a second Blood Moon because of the absence of 3 color midrange decks.
Remand is really awful on the draw, you'll always be behind basically. I don't think 4 is correct, sometimes you just need the Mana Leak to get rid of the problematic spell, and we don't have the space to play playsets of both.
Forked Bolt is okay, it's a meta call between it and Pillar of Flames. If there are any Pod in the meta, then I'd pick Pillar. Sometimes you'll get a 2 for 1 against Affinity with Forked Bolt, but Electrolyze is still better because it hits manlands.
Spell Pierce is also meta dependent, I'm running 1 right now but could go up to 2 if there's more UWR or combo in my meta.
Grim Lavamancer versus Vendilion Clique, both are great, but it depends on the meta.
I think overall the deck is very dependent on being able to accurately predict the meta. It's a reasonable choice at an LGS because you know what decks are being played, but in a larger tournament like a Grand Prix, the meta is more difficult to predict, hence the difficulty of the deck placing well in a Grand Prix.
Thank you for replying. I largely agree except for the Remand argument; Mana Leak is equally awful on the draw. I think that a 4/2 split is fairly balanced, and as a friend of mine who is a very good player told me, paying 2 mana and a card to not advance our gameplan seems "meh."
An insightful comment about different Delver archetypes in Modern from /r/spikes.
UWR Delver is too inconsistent and gets hated out by anything that hates out zoo. Finks, anger of the gods, and liliana are all bad for it, since it uses Geist of St Traft, and the mana base doesn't really allow it to run Blood Moon.
RUg Delver seems good, but hasn't put up anything impressive so I'd hold off for now.
UBR Delver seems ok, but it hurts itself a lot more. I think it is much more explosive than RUg and URFae, but has a better long game than UWR, since it runs Bob.
UR Pyro has bad combo matchups because it runs less countermagic, and has to tap out for threats like Delver and YP. I like that it runs cards like Gitaxian Probe though because it can shape a game to a win, albeit at the cost of life and mana.
UR Fae has a strong combo matchup and a strong aggro matchup. Any deck that's trying to get value out of the early turns runs right into Sprite. Discard, cantrips, removal, 1 drops, and 0 mana cascade spells all get removed or countered very easily. The deck does have trouble keeping up with the fair decks like UWR, Jund, Hatebears though. It has 0 ways to manipulate draw so you can't sculpt your future turns and sometimes find yourself at the mercy of your topdecks. Hoogland often says "Well, variance is a thing!" because he makes all the right plays, but loses anyway because we draw lands for 3 turns. It'd be nice to have something like Preordain or Serum visions in the list but people are insistent that it's a bad card. It's a weird argument, because the question then becomes "what do you take out? each card is better than a cantrip on their own!" to which I say "Well, each card is better on their own than JUST a cantrip, but they're sometimes weaker than cantrip+info+NOTdrawing lands for 2 turns". Anyway, bad fair matchups due to worse topdecks/overall card quality and no way to sculpt better ones. Although all of the cards "Do something" unlike the cantrips in UR Pyro, they're still each individually weaker than cards like Tarmogoyf, Grim Lavamancer, Liliana of the Veil, Abrupt Decay, Dark Confidant, Celestial Colonnade, Batterskull, and so forth.
Sidenote 1: I include Scapeshift in the fair matchups since it's a control deck with mana acceleration, both of which are terrible for the counterspells in this deck. If combo decks continue to play more like fair decks that can "just win" with combo, UR Fae is in for a bad time.
UR Fae also has better T2 matchups. It's got good game against soul sisters, burn, 8-rack and a lot of the random decks in the format.
UR Pyro has had more and better results than UR Fae. People will tell you that's because more people play it online. I disagree. I know for a fact that at least 10 people were playing UR Fae with Hoogland's list at GPRichmond, because I heard a group talking and trading for it in front of me in line for registration, and I was also playing with it as was my teammate. I think that many people can play both decks well, but UR Pyro allows you to outplay your opponent and sculpt a game that you can win. You do have to play more specific hate cards like Shattering Spree in UR Pyro, but I think it's worth it. The games where I find myself comfortable and in charge of the game with UR Fae, I'm basically operating like a UR Pyro deck that didn't draw the YP for the game. We both have tons of burn and countermagic to generate tempo, but I get to know more information with Young Pyromancer. I think it ultimately comes down to what Channel Fireball said for PTJou: "We played the best deck with the best overall win percentage in past protours, but we didn't play a deck that let us benefit from outplaying the opponent."
An insightful comment about different Delver archetypes in Modern from /r/spikes.
UWR Delver is too inconsistent and gets hated out by anything that hates out zoo. Finks, anger of the gods, and liliana are all bad for it, since it uses Geist of St Traft, and the mana base doesn't really allow it to run Blood Moon.
RUg Delver seems good, but hasn't put up anything impressive so I'd hold off for now.
UBR Delver seems ok, but it hurts itself a lot more. I think it is much more explosive than RUg and URFae, but has a better long game than UWR, since it runs Bob.
UR Pyro has bad combo matchups because it runs less countermagic, and has to tap out for threats like Delver and YP. I like that it runs cards like Gitaxian Probe though because it can shape a game to a win, albeit at the cost of life and mana.
UR Fae has a strong combo matchup and a strong aggro matchup. Any deck that's trying to get value out of the early turns runs right into Sprite. Discard, cantrips, removal, 1 drops, and 0 mana cascade spells all get removed or countered very easily. The deck does have trouble keeping up with the fair decks like UWR, Jund, Hatebears though. It has 0 ways to manipulate draw so you can't sculpt your future turns and sometimes find yourself at the mercy of your topdecks. Hoogland often says "Well, variance is a thing!" because he makes all the right plays, but loses anyway because we draw lands for 3 turns. It'd be nice to have something like Preordain or Serum visions in the list but people are insistent that it's a bad card. It's a weird argument, because the question then becomes "what do you take out? each card is better than a cantrip on their own!" to which I say "Well, each card is better on their own than JUST a cantrip, but they're sometimes weaker than cantrip+info+NOTdrawing lands for 2 turns". Anyway, bad fair matchups due to worse topdecks/overall card quality and no way to sculpt better ones. Although all of the cards "Do something" unlike the cantrips in UR Pyro, they're still each individually weaker than cards like Tarmogoyf, Grim Lavamancer, Liliana of the Veil, Abrupt Decay, Dark Confidant, Celestial Colonnade, Batterskull, and so forth.
Sidenote 1: I include Scapeshift in the fair matchups since it's a control deck with mana acceleration, both of which are terrible for the counterspells in this deck. If combo decks continue to play more like fair decks that can "just win" with combo, UR Fae is in for a bad time.
UR Fae also has better T2 matchups. It's got good game against soul sisters, burn, 8-rack and a lot of the random decks in the format.
UR Pyro has had more and better results than UR Fae. People will tell you that's because more people play it online. I disagree. I know for a fact that at least 10 people were playing UR Fae with Hoogland's list at GPRichmond, because I heard a group talking and trading for it in front of me in line for registration, and I was also playing with it as was my teammate. I think that many people can play both decks well, but UR Pyro allows you to outplay your opponent and sculpt a game that you can win. You do have to play more specific hate cards like Shattering Spree in UR Pyro, but I think it's worth it. The games where I find myself comfortable and in charge of the game with UR Fae, I'm basically operating like a UR Pyro deck that didn't draw the YP for the game. We both have tons of burn and countermagic to generate tempo, but I get to know more information with Young Pyromancer. I think it ultimately comes down to what Channel Fireball said for PTJou: "We played the best deck with the best overall win percentage in past protours, but we didn't play a deck that let us benefit from outplaying the opponent."
First, RUG Delver actually has gotten results. It got 9th place at a Grand Prix recently and it used to be one of the strongest decks in the format with many top 8s (pre-RTR). Second, WUR Delver is much more powerful than you think. While Geist dies to sweepers, all Delver creatures do that. However, Geist (and Goyf in RUG) is the only Delver threat that doesn't die to Bolt, Electrolyze, or Abrupt Decay. I'd say that that is much more important. When you add in that it has a stronger aggro matchup because of Lightning Helix and can deal with Goyfs, Thundermaws, Wurmcoils, and other 4+ toughness creatures that are immune to Bolt and that it has stronger sideboard options, i'd say that WUR Delver is one of the stronger possible Delver versions.
I'm not really sold on playing Young Pyromancer or Grim Lavamancer. If I was going to start with LSV's build as my base and work from there what you would guys recommend I replace them with? Should I add more removal? More counters? More bounce? Other threats? Are there other viable threats?
You can try the Spellstutter Sprite build. It hasn't put up as much results as of late, but theoretically speaking the deck should have answers for most things and a reasonable tempo plan.
Either that or go full RUG with Scavenging Ooze and Tarmogoyf.
Is there a guide on how to sideboard with this deck? I don't have spellskites unfortunately, are they absolutely necessary? I guess against aggressive decks you board out gitaxian probes and counterspells, is a batterskull good in the board here? Against Pod, is it a good idea to board pithing needle? What about relic of progenitus?
Spellskite is not necessary. In fact I prefer not to run it. I bring in Combust for Twin and Hibernation for Boggles, the two main decks I'd be bringing in Spellskite for.
Batterskull is an acceptable one-of in the board to bring in against aggressive decks or UWR control.
Pithing Needle is not very good in this deck. I prefer more direct answers in the form of instants and sorceries so I don't dilute the spell count for Young Pyromancer and Delver of Secrets. There's also the downside of your Needle eating a removal spell. Pod in particular can take care of it easily.
You definitely don't want Relic in your Snapcaster deck.
Are we allowed to speak about a more burn oriented version of this deck, or is it strictly UR Pyro? I feel like that UR Pyro is the only deck that's to be talked about in this UR Delver primer.
Are we allowed to speak about a more burn oriented version of this deck, or is it strictly UR Pyro? I feel like that UR Pyro is the only deck that's to be talked about in this UR Delver primer.
I would post it and see where the discussion leads. The spellstutter version is a drastically different deck and the consensus was to move it to a different primer.
I love playing with Eidolon of the Great Revel and just burning face. Very minimal amounts of counter as some amount of tempo I think will be needed. I haven't any tests, but I have the bulk of the cards and will be testing soon.
I just now thought of a list, but I really want to play with Eidolon in this deck. Any no-nos I've commited, besides the new idea of running Eidolon? The mana base looks like a mess, but I'm not sure what else to run in order to make UU or RR on turn 2.
I don't really think UWR Delver in modern would work the same way. One of the biggest differences between the two is having Stoneforge Mystic (which is really what you're playing white for), plus they have the free counters like Daze or Force of Will to better protect their threat(s).
Sword of War and Peace or Body and Mind. Those are mainly it. The swords are kinda unique equipments.
I'd also argue that the swords aren't needed if you are going to play Young Pyromancer.
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
I think Young Pyromancer versions would prefer more instants and sorceries to give you triggers. SSS needs a way to make its SSS more of a threat.
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
Match 1: I arrived late and received a bye. The best of both worlds?
(1-0)
Match 2: Mono Black Infect
Game 1: I play a turn 1 Delver on the draw, he plays a couple Phyrexian Crusaders, which is pretty good against the Young Pyromancers and the tokens that I have. His retraced Raven's Crime manages to discard my Snapcaster Mage, but not before I manage to Bolt him three times between Snapcaster Mage and 2 copies of Lightning Bolt. I win on turn 5 after hitting him with Delver three times (9 damage), Lightning Bolts (9 damage), and the 2 he took from Night's Whisper.
In: +1 Sword of Light and Shadow, +1 Batterskull, +1 Vendilion Clique, -1 Forked Bolt, -2 Spell Snare
Game 2: He discards my Sword of Light and Shadow and lands a Runechanter's Pike on a Phyrexian Crusader, I chump with a Delver for a turn. On the last turn, I Bolt him twice with Young Pyromancer in play. Serum Visions draws a land with Cryptic Command on top, I swing back with all my creatures but I'm 3 damage short.
Game 3: I play a turn 2 Young Pyromancer into triple Gitaxian Probe for tokens and seal the game with two Mana Leaks and a Snapcaster Mana Leak, not letting him resolve any board presence.
(2-0)
Match 3: R/W Burn
Game 1: On the play, I land an early Delver and Spell Snare two Keldon Marauders, Spell Pierce a Lightning Bolt on the Delver, and ride it to victory. I was pretty lucky to not draw any Gitaxian Probe this entire game. Bolting Goblin Guide feels good when it gives you a land. On the last turn, I had Cryptic Command backup as well.
-3 Gitaxian Probe, -1 Forked Bolt, -1 Remand, +1 Spellsite, +1 Sword of Light and Shadow, +2 Magma Spray, +1 Flame Slash
Game 2: I'm stuck on 1 land the entire game of 6 turns, not very fun at all. Lightning Bolt and Vapor Snag are great for the matchup, except when you're on 1 land.
+1 Batterskull, -1 Remand
Game 3: I land a Young Pyromancer and he lands his Keldon Marauder. He manages to bring me down to 5 life before I windmill slam a Batterskull on curve. Next turn he taps out, and I swing back with it attached onto a Delver of Secrets to gain 7 life and that's game. First place I've actually played the Batterskull ever in an organized constructed game.
(3-0)
Match 4: GW Hatebears
Game 1:
I'm on the play and I go Gitaxian Probe, I see Noble Hierarch x2, Thalia, 2x Horizon Canopy, Razorverge Thicket, Mindcensor. I play Steam Vents untapped and pass. He plays Noble Hierach, I Lightning Bolt it. Turn 2 I play a Misty Rainforest, sacrifice it for Island, and Serum Visions. He plays his Horizon Canopy and another Noble Hierach. Turn 3 I play Delver of Secrets and leave up Mana Leak, he plays Thalia and I Spell Snare it. Delver of Secret flips, and I start clocking him with it Mana Leak back ups. He plays Blade Splicer, I Mana Leak it. He plays Mindcensor, I Electrolyze Noble Hierarch and the Mindcensor. He plays another Blade Splicer, I Snapcaster Mana Leak it. And that's game because of the damage he was taking from the Horizon Canopy.
-1 Serum Visions, -1 Gitaxian Probe, - 3 Remand, +1 Flame Slash, +1 Vendilion Clique, +1 Sword of Light and Shadow, 2 Magma Spray
Game 2:
Turn 1, he plays Noble Hiearch and passes, I play Steam Vents for Magma Spray and ship the turn. Turn 2 I believe he plays Burrenton Forge-Tender and passes. I then play Delver of Secrets and Grim Lavamancer. Turn 3 he lands on Chalice of the Void on 1, and ships it back. I miss a Delver of Secrets trigger drawing a Spell Pierce, I play my land pass it back to him. I draw step Vendilion Clique him to take out his Choke and see that he has another copy of Chalice of the Void and some Blade Splicers. Luckily for me, my Delver of Secret flips anyway and I start cracking back for 6 a turn, which outraces his Blade Splicers. Despite having an unplayable hand of Lightning Bolt, Lightning Bolt, Spell Pierce, and Grim Lavamancer, I win off the back of the flyers.
(4-0)
I've been in the prize pool for the last 5 times I've played with the deck, and someone else drew with me for first place when I swapped this deck for his Affinity deck. I can say that the list feels good, it has answers for most things, and for everything else there's Cryptic Command. I want to have the Vendilion Clique back in the main, it's just such a powerhouse at 19 lands, I want to bring it in every game especially after sideboard so that I can get rid of hate cards like Choke while also putting a threat on the table. I'm not sure about the number of Gitaxian Probes. On the one hand, it's very good for outplaying your opponent and knowing which counters to have which turn, particularly in the GW Hatebear deck where I saw his whole hand and had the appropriate counter every step of the way. On the other hand, having multiple Gitaxian Probes on the play against Burn or Affinity is just asking to get owned.
Actually, since I'm here, I'll share some other thoughts.
Spell Pierce does a lot of work when we're trying to curve out with a threat and protection. It also messes up a lot of decks tempo (beats Cryptic, Chord, Rev, Liliana, Batterskull, etc.). I think running 2+ in the main is the way to go. I'm partial to 3-4 because I run 16 lands and don't always have 4 mana for Pyro + Remand. Also hits turn 1 Map, Vial, and Thoughtseize on the play.
Forked Bolt is really good. I think that it should be in the main with Pillar in the side. Being able to hit Bob and Lili for 1, take out 2 dorks, ravage Affinity's board, and get rid of tokens/weenies on the ground for Pyro to get through is great. And killing their x/1 and pinging them to the dome is relevant for this deck; how many times have you had them down to 4 and had the Bolt? Better than the 3CMC Electrolyze in this deck, IMO.
I think Remand should be a 4-of. We are a tempo deck and it is the tempo card. Additionally, we don't have much card advantage, and being able to counter something for a turn without being down a card is huge. We lose when we topdeck; the deck thrives on having cheap answers. Sure, it's not always great, but it cantrips and that is huge. Using Mana Leak to trade 1-for-1 is suicide in the long run because most decks have a better card quality on average.
Spell Snare is awesome. It makes up for our awful position we're in on the draw and hits 80% of the problem cards for the deck. I wouldn't drop below 2.
Vendilion Clique is an all-star. It does everything the deck needs. I actually find it a better maindeck inclusion than Grim, which has been disappointing a lot of the time for me. I just don't find myself having the grave mass to support it early enough and it doesn't get rid of the big threats, which Clique does. Clique also presents an unconditional clock if left unanswered and requires no mana commitment on your own turn. It's just so good.
-Mark
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Young Pyromancer
2 Grim Lavamancer
Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Serum Visions
3 Mana Leak
3 Remand
2 Electrolyze
1 Forked Bolt
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
3 Vapor Snag
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
Lands
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
4 Island
2 Mountain
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Dispel
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Shattering Spree
1 Spell Pierce
1 Vandalblast
1 Combust
1 Negate
2 Spellskite
1 Blood Moon
1 Counterflux
1 Molten Rain
1 Magma Spray
Here's my proposed changes if I play it again next week (I'll have everything to play UR Twin by Friday):
Mainboard
-1 Mana Leak
+1 Spell Pierce
Sideboard
-1 Mamga Spray
-1 Dispel
+1 Forked Bolt
+1 Sword of Light and Shadow
I was considering playing with a second Spell Pierce in the main, it was always really good when I hand it in my opening hand, but other than that my mainboard felt very solid. As for the sideboard, I'm tempted to play a Forked Bolt over Magma Spray and possibly jam a Sword of Light and Shadow in there as an additional card against Burn that also helps against grindy decks (that BW Tokens event deck can be difficult given maindeck Zealous Persecution). I like Molten Rain over a second Blood Moon because of the absence of 3 color midrange decks.
Forked Bolt is okay, it's a meta call between it and Pillar of Flames. If there are any Pod in the meta, then I'd pick Pillar. Sometimes you'll get a 2 for 1 against Affinity with Forked Bolt, but Electrolyze is still better because it hits manlands.
Spell Pierce is also meta dependent, I'm running 1 right now but could go up to 2 if there's more UWR or combo in my meta.
Grim Lavamancer versus Vendilion Clique, both are great, but it depends on the meta.
I think overall the deck is very dependent on being able to accurately predict the meta. It's a reasonable choice at an LGS because you know what decks are being played, but in a larger tournament like a Grand Prix, the meta is more difficult to predict, hence the difficulty of the deck placing well in a Grand Prix.
I've been testing Deprive and it is pretty good.
First, RUG Delver actually has gotten results. It got 9th place at a Grand Prix recently and it used to be one of the strongest decks in the format with many top 8s (pre-RTR). Second, WUR Delver is much more powerful than you think. While Geist dies to sweepers, all Delver creatures do that. However, Geist (and Goyf in RUG) is the only Delver threat that doesn't die to Bolt, Electrolyze, or Abrupt Decay. I'd say that that is much more important. When you add in that it has a stronger aggro matchup because of Lightning Helix and can deal with Goyfs, Thundermaws, Wurmcoils, and other 4+ toughness creatures that are immune to Bolt and that it has stronger sideboard options, i'd say that WUR Delver is one of the stronger possible Delver versions.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
UW Approach UW
EDH
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls U
Either that or go full RUG with Scavenging Ooze and Tarmogoyf.
4x Delver Of Secrets
4x Young Pyromancer
4x Snapcaster Mage
2x Venser, Shaper Savant
1x Grim Lavamancer
Spellskite is not necessary. In fact I prefer not to run it. I bring in Combust for Twin and Hibernation for Boggles, the two main decks I'd be bringing in Spellskite for.
Batterskull is an acceptable one-of in the board to bring in against aggressive decks or UWR control.
Pithing Needle is not very good in this deck. I prefer more direct answers in the form of instants and sorceries so I don't dilute the spell count for Young Pyromancer and Delver of Secrets. There's also the downside of your Needle eating a removal spell. Pod in particular can take care of it easily.
You definitely don't want Relic in your Snapcaster deck.
I would post it and see where the discussion leads. The spellstutter version is a drastically different deck and the consensus was to move it to a different primer.
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Serum Visions
4 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lava Spike
4 Remand
2 Searing Blaze
1 Sword of War and Peace
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Steam Vents
6 Island
5 Mountain
1 Faerie Conclave
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Replicate
2 Torpor Orb
1 Spellskite
2 Combust
1 Eidolon of the Great Revel
3 Blood Moon
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Batterskull
I just now thought of a list, but I really want to play with Eidolon in this deck. Any no-nos I've commited, besides the new idea of running Eidolon? The mana base looks like a mess, but I'm not sure what else to run in order to make UU or RR on turn 2.