I'm surprised that KotR is still seeing play. Between the ubiquity of Deathrite and the impending presence of Ooze, has anyone been working on replacing KotR?
Not every deck has a DRS/Ooze. Even against a DRS MU (we'll just say a BGx shell in general) KotR is above the curve most of the time.
And he's not just an undercosted beater in this deck (which is what i mainly use him for in my Gruul + W version); he's a kessig tutor, and a Thundermaw ramper.
Its testing fairly well, and i love the synergy between domri and elspeth if they are both out at the same time... domri is an absolute beast in the deck...
Be a lemming hunter. Don't be a lemming. Really, all you had to do was explain to him the popularity metric, not give him the lemming hunter manifesto...
Basically I took Kibler's Zoo and made changes to what I saw fit. Anyway here is how my day went (I won't go into full details of each match, but just the highlights).
Round 1 vs Infect 2-0 / 1-0
Just had way too much removal for him to keep up, easy match win. I sided in 2x Ancient Grudge to deal with the Inkmoth Nexus and Spellskite. Took out 2x Domri Rade.
Round 2 vs Ajundi 1-2 / 1-1
My opponent was playing the Glittering Wish version of this deck, which is neat. I lost due to too many misplays on my part (when he activated a +1 Liliana of the Veil I had mana open to crack a Horizon Canopy and instead did not and discarded a Path to Exile). I ended up cracking the canopy at the EoT and drew into a Loxodon Smiter :-/. I swapped in 2x Blood Moon and 2x Kitchen Finks for 2x Knight of the Reliquary and 2x Domri Rade I believe.
Round 3 vs Jund 2-0 / 2-1
Only thing I remember is blowing my opponent out with Blood Moon game 2
Round 5 vs UWR Twin 0-0-3 ID / 3-1-1
Not much to say here, but he did get knocked out in the quarterfinals vs Tron, which made me somewhat happy.
Quarterfinals vs UW Control 2-1 / 4-1-1
Played very carefully, not to overextend and made him use his counterspells when he did not want to. Voice of Resurgence, Loxodon Smiter, and Thrun, the Last Troll were all-stars.
Semifinals vs Ajundi (same guy as before) 2-0 / 5-1-1
Game 1 he punted hard by looking at my hand with Inquisition of Kozilek, not writing down my hand which had a Loxodon Smiter and he +1 Liliana of the Veil the next turn giving me a free 4/4
Game 2 he just got flooded out. I think I got lucky in this match, but I still think I could have beaten him even if he did not flood out.
Finals vs Gifts
Found out my opponent was not sure if he was going to Detroit, so we ended up splitting prizes and I got the byes I think with the maindeck Ooze's, I probably would have gotten there.
Overall:
I like this deck. It can hold its ground pretty decently against other fair decks of this format. I think we need to focus our sideboard for the unfair matches in this format (Pod, Twin, Storm etc...). Other than that, with proper sideboarding and preparation, I think this deck has potential for doing decently well at GP Detroit. I would probably want some number of Grafdigger's Cage, Sowing Salt, Ethersworn Canonist if GP Detroit was happening this weekend.
Basically I took Kibler's Zoo and made changes to what I saw fit. Anyway here is how my day went (I won't go into full details of each match, but just the highlights).
Round 1 vs Infect 2-0 / 1-0
Just had way too much removal for him to keep up, easy match win. I sided in 2x Ancient Grudge to deal with the Inkmoth Nexus and Spellskite. Took out 2x Domri Rade.
Round 2 vs Ajundi 1-2 / 1-1
My opponent was playing the Glittering Wish version of this deck, which is neat. I lost due to too many misplays on my part (when he activated a +1 Liliana of the Veil I had mana open to crack a Horizon Canopy and instead did not and discarded a Path to Exile). I ended up cracking the canopy at the EoT and drew into a Loxodon Smiter :-/. I swapped in 2x Blood Moon and 2x Kitchen Finks for 2x Knight of the Reliquary and 2x Domri Rade I believe.
Round 3 vs Jund 2-0 / 2-1
Only thing I remember is blowing my opponent out with Blood Moon game 2
Round 5 vs UWR Twin 0-0-3 ID / 3-1-1
Not much to say here, but he did get knocked out in the quarterfinals vs Tron, which made me somewhat happy.
Quarterfinals vs UW Control 2-1 / 4-1-1
Played very carefully, not to overextend and made him use his counterspells when he did not want to. Voice of Resurgence, Loxodon Smiter, and Thrun, the Last Troll were all-stars.
Semifinals vs Ajundi (same guy as before) 2-0 / 5-1-1
Game 1 he punted hard by looking at my hand with Inquisition of Kozilek, not writing down my hand which had a Loxodon Smiter and he +1 Liliana of the Veil the next turn giving me a free 4/4
Game 2 he just got flooded out. I think I got lucky in this match, but I still think I could have beaten him even if he did not flood out.
Finals vs Gifts
Found out my opponent was not sure if he was going to Detroit, so we ended up splitting prizes and I got the byes I think with the maindeck Ooze's, I probably would have gotten there.
Overall:
I like this deck. It can hold its ground pretty decently against other fair decks of this format. I think we need to focus our sideboard for the unfair matches in this format (Pod, Twin, Storm etc...). Other than that, with proper sideboarding and preparation, I think this deck has potential for doing decently well at GP Detroit. I would probably want some number of Grafdigger's Cage, Sowing Salt, Ethersworn Canonist if GP Detroit was happening this weekend.
I'm a bit confused how Blood Moon doesn't shut down Zoo as well? It runs so many fetches and shocks! How does that work? Also, why Combust in the SB?
Interesting. And what about the Combust in the SB?
It just wrecks UWx control, it is also decent vs Twin, as it kills 1/2 of their combo. For UWx control, it kills just about every single one of their creatures (except Geist obviously, but my creatures are normally big enough to block anyway.)
Blood Moon, when played correctly, doesn't shut us down. I have played it on turn 3 and won. You just have to fetch up those basics first.
Are there any specific matchups in which we would want to run Gaddock Teeg or Thalia, Guardian of Thraben in our sideboards? Or would they end up hampering us too much?
The same way that Armageddon didn't shut down old White Weenie lists.
You drop it when you're ahead in terms of board presence. And then you really don't have to play anything but bolts for the rest of the game.
Ideally, that's how it's supposed to work. In practice, I tend to stick Blood Moon against Jund/UWR, have only one basic out, then they Bolt my mana dork and I'm screwed out of the other colour (and since they've found a basic in anticipation, too, they tend to recover faster).
I still like Moon enough that I must have all my 5-mana guys be castable through it.
This list is really awesome! I'd like to play something similar but more aggressive in the early turns. For doing that, I need one drop beaters like loam lion, so I thought about a list like this
I think I will probably miss Kotr, he's a great midrange beater, but there aren't any empty slot for him in this list, 'cause smiter is better than the knight in this current meta. So, what do you guys think?
That mana base looks really strange without Knight of the Reliquary... Anyway I think Deathrite Shaman is better than Loam Lion because 1) It gives you a chance against GY based decks (including storm) Game 1; 2) When you draw loam lion later in the game, it basically does nothing; and 3) Having the ability to ramp into a turn 3 Thundermaw Hellkite is insane.
Peronsally I like Knight of the Reliquary over Kitchen Finks becuase you can add lands like manlands and even Bojuka Bog as 1-ofs without disrupting the already greedy mana base.
Anyone played this deck against Pod lately? I'm stuck between building this and UWR Control. I'm just worried Zoo will have trouble against the huge amount of Pod that is seeing play right now.
Well, gruul zoo wins in a couple of turns or it loses. POD has a lot of creatures, like kitchen finks, wall of roots, murderous redcap, that can easily get rid all of the gruul zoo's small creatures.
Naya is different: we have big buddies and, most important, GY hate, thanks to deathrite shaman and the new arrived scavenging ooze
Pod is just so prevelant and powerful right now I don't want to end up building a deck that is terrible against it.
It looks like an intriguing hybrid of Hatebears and Zoo--what do you all think?
All of those one-of non basic lands really scare me with Tectonic Edge floating around everywhere (UWR is really popular right now). Otherwise I like the idea, I think the mana base needs some work though.
I'm preparing for a grand prix and would like to play naya zoo.
when I was going over the metagame, I didn't see any solutions against tron.
when this Karn Liberated drops, it is game over.
or not?
Are you talking about GP Detroit? Anyway, I am currently testing against GR tron at the moment with a friend. So far it seems like G1 is very hard to beat, but it becomes easier games 2-3 with sideboarding options to remove the lands. I am actually more worried about Oblivion Stone since it wipes our board completely. Other than that, I'll try to keep updating on what I find out about this MU.
Path to Exile is for the Wurmcoil Engine on turn 3/4. If they get Emrakul out and attack with it, you're boned unless they're low enough to bolt and you have land in hand.
Not every deck has a DRS/Ooze. Even against a DRS MU (we'll just say a BGx shell in general) KotR is above the curve most of the time.
And he's not just an undercosted beater in this deck (which is what i mainly use him for in my Gruul + W version); he's a kessig tutor, and a Thundermaw ramper.
Sig courtesy of DOLZero
[82/360] Custom Cube
Blog about the Custom Cube
4 Kird Ape
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Flinthoof Boar
4 Experiment One
3 Loxodon Smiter
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
3 Path to Exile
3 Lightning Helix
3 Domri Rade
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Arid Mesa
4 Stomping Ground
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Plains
1 Temple Garden
Its testing fairly well, and i love the synergy between domri and elspeth if they are both out at the same time... domri is an absolute beast in the deck...
Be a lemming hunter. Don't be a lemming.
Really, all you had to do was explain to him the popularity metric, not give him the lemming hunter manifesto...
Originally posted by MemoryLapse and DotMatrix
3x Noble Hierarch
3x Deathrite Shaman
2x Scavenging Ooze
3x Voice of Resurgence
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Loxodon Smiter
3x Knight of the Reliquary
3x Thundermaw Hellkite
Spells (8)
4x Path to Exile
4x Lightning Bolt
Planeswalkers (4)
4x Domri Rade
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Arid Mesa
2x Misty Rainforest
1x Marsh Flats
2x Stomping Ground
2x Temple Garden
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Blood Crypt
1x Kessig Wolf Run
1x Horizion Canopy
2x Forest
2x Plains
2x Torpor Orb
2x Qasali Pridemage
2x Combust
2x Ancient Grudge
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
2x Aven Mindcensor
2x Blood Moon
2x Kitchen Finks
Basically I took Kibler's Zoo and made changes to what I saw fit. Anyway here is how my day went (I won't go into full details of each match, but just the highlights).
Round 1 vs Infect 2-0 / 1-0
Just had way too much removal for him to keep up, easy match win. I sided in 2x Ancient Grudge to deal with the Inkmoth Nexus and Spellskite. Took out 2x Domri Rade.
Round 2 vs Ajundi 1-2 / 1-1
My opponent was playing the Glittering Wish version of this deck, which is neat. I lost due to too many misplays on my part (when he activated a +1 Liliana of the Veil I had mana open to crack a Horizon Canopy and instead did not and discarded a Path to Exile). I ended up cracking the canopy at the EoT and drew into a Loxodon Smiter :-/. I swapped in 2x Blood Moon and 2x Kitchen Finks for 2x Knight of the Reliquary and 2x Domri Rade I believe.
Round 3 vs Jund 2-0 / 2-1
Only thing I remember is blowing my opponent out with Blood Moon game 2
Round 4 vs Affinity 2-1 / 3-1
My win and in was of course against my worst MU. Game 1 he was way too fast for me, games 2 and 3 Ancient Grudge and Qasali Pridemage got there Sideboarding was -3 Voice of Resurgence -2 Domri Rade -1 Knight of the Reliquary +2 Ancient Grudge +2 Qasali Pridemage +2 Kitchen Finks
Round 5 vs UWR Twin 0-0-3 ID / 3-1-1
Not much to say here, but he did get knocked out in the quarterfinals vs Tron, which made me somewhat happy.
Quarterfinals vs UW Control 2-1 / 4-1-1
Played very carefully, not to overextend and made him use his counterspells when he did not want to. Voice of Resurgence, Loxodon Smiter, and Thrun, the Last Troll were all-stars.
Semifinals vs Ajundi (same guy as before) 2-0 / 5-1-1
Game 1 he punted hard by looking at my hand with Inquisition of Kozilek, not writing down my hand which had a Loxodon Smiter and he +1 Liliana of the Veil the next turn giving me a free 4/4
Game 2 he just got flooded out. I think I got lucky in this match, but I still think I could have beaten him even if he did not flood out.
Finals vs Gifts
Found out my opponent was not sure if he was going to Detroit, so we ended up splitting prizes and I got the byes I think with the maindeck Ooze's, I probably would have gotten there.
Overall:
I like this deck. It can hold its ground pretty decently against other fair decks of this format. I think we need to focus our sideboard for the unfair matches in this format (Pod, Twin, Storm etc...). Other than that, with proper sideboarding and preparation, I think this deck has potential for doing decently well at GP Detroit. I would probably want some number of Grafdigger's Cage, Sowing Salt, Ethersworn Canonist if GP Detroit was happening this weekend.
UBR Grixis UBR
1 Blood Crypt
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Temple Garden
2 Forest
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Plains
2 Stomping Ground
4 Arid Mesa
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Lotus Cobra
2 Thundermaw Hellkite
3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Kitchen Finks
3 Noble Hierarch
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Tarmogoyf
Instants [7]
3 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
Planeswalkers [4]
1 Ajani Vengeant
3 Domri Rade
Artifacts [1]
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Obstinate Baloth
2 Aven Mindcensor
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Golgari Charm
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Batterskull
2 Spellskite
2 Torpor Orb
2 Stony Silence
I'm a bit confused how Blood Moon doesn't shut down Zoo as well? It runs so many fetches and shocks! How does that work? Also, why Combust in the SB?
The same way that Armageddon didn't shut down old White Weenie lists.
You drop it when you're ahead in terms of board presence. And then you really don't have to play anything but bolts for the rest of the game.
Sig courtesy of DOLZero
[82/360] Custom Cube
Blog about the Custom Cube
Interesting. And what about the Combust in the SB?
It just wrecks UWx control, it is also decent vs Twin, as it kills 1/2 of their combo. For UWx control, it kills just about every single one of their creatures (except Geist obviously, but my creatures are normally big enough to block anyway.)
Blood Moon, when played correctly, doesn't shut us down. I have played it on turn 3 and won. You just have to fetch up those basics first.
UBR Grixis UBR
Ideally, that's how it's supposed to work. In practice, I tend to stick Blood Moon against Jund/UWR, have only one basic out, then they Bolt my mana dork and I'm screwed out of the other colour (and since they've found a basic in anticipation, too, they tend to recover faster).
I still like Moon enough that I must have all my 5-mana guys be castable through it.
That mana base looks really strange without Knight of the Reliquary... Anyway I think Deathrite Shaman is better than Loam Lion because 1) It gives you a chance against GY based decks (including storm) Game 1; 2) When you draw loam lion later in the game, it basically does nothing; and 3) Having the ability to ramp into a turn 3 Thundermaw Hellkite is insane.
Peronsally I like Knight of the Reliquary over Kitchen Finks becuase you can add lands like manlands and even Bojuka Bog as 1-ofs without disrupting the already greedy mana base.
What is the Pillar of Flame for?
UBR Grixis UBR
60 cards
4 Arid Mesa
2 Forest
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Marsh Flats
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Sacred Foundry
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Stirring Wildwood
2 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
1 Verdant Catacombs
23 lands
4 Huntmaster of the Fells
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Thundermaw Hellkite
25 creatures
2 Domri Rade
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
12 other spells
2 Aven Mindcensor
3 Blood Moon
2 Combust
2 Fracturing Gust
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
How is it compared to other archetypes?
Pod is just so prevelant and powerful right now I don't want to end up building a deck that is terrible against it.
4 Arid Mesa
1 Blood Crypt
1 Copperline Gorge
1 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Raging Ravine
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Forest
1 Plains
2 Aven Mindcensor
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
3 Loxodon Smiter
3 Noble Hierarch
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Thundermaw Hellkite
3 Voice of Resurgence
Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Path to Exile
4 Domri Rade
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Aven Mindcensor
3 Blood Moon
2 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Combust
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Path to Exile
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Spellskite
1 Torpor Orb
Sadly, he did not get in the Top 4.
It looks like an intriguing hybrid of Hatebears and Zoo--what do you all think?
All of those one-of non basic lands really scare me with Tectonic Edge floating around everywhere (UWR is really popular right now). Otherwise I like the idea, I think the mana base needs some work though.
UBR Grixis UBR
Are you talking about GP Detroit? Anyway, I am currently testing against GR tron at the moment with a friend. So far it seems like G1 is very hard to beat, but it becomes easier games 2-3 with sideboarding options to remove the lands. I am actually more worried about Oblivion Stone since it wipes our board completely. Other than that, I'll try to keep updating on what I find out about this MU.
UBR Grixis UBR
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