Not necessarily. Kibler's deck is great, but I think it only represents one direction you can take Naya.
Very true. I am currently testing smaller zoo for Naya and doing pretty well. Kiblers deck only represents one style of Naya based on his predictions of the Meta for that GP.
What are all your thoughts on his Ajani Vengeant? It seems a tad slow for this format, no?
Don't underestimate his +1 ability. It can be super effective. I have been on the receiving end of it. Forcing a key land to be tapped really sucks. That being said, it is kinda slow and there are better options like Elspeth. He could have a nice controlish feel, but I don't see myself being able to play him.
Don't underestimate his +1 ability. It can be super effective. I have been on the receiving end of it. Forcing a key land to be tapped really sucks. That being said, it is kinda slow and there are better options like Elspeth. He could have a nice controlish feel, but I don't see myself being able to play him.
From what I tested he's fine as a one of. Most of the time he came down as a lightening helix and then got some added value from keeping a land tapped. While at the same time he represented a major threat that needed to be dealt with lest he put you out of the game.
Never really wanted to draw him, always happen when I did.
Kitchen Finks - It is a creature which gives you 2 hp when enter the game so he helps you when you fetches a lands and can be a good blocker or attacker, cuz his Persist makes angry many players.
Deathrite Shaman- Is not in full number cuz he shrinks tarm and Kotr, but good mana giver and lifegain or grim servis always avalible...
Loxodon Smiter - Strong against Jund, he just waits for Liliana to discard ability, or for blue player ready with mana leak on turn two.. and did i say that it is 4/4 for 3 mana? Which you usually have in turn 2?
Knight of the reliquary - I know he is slow in modern format, usually 3/3 or 4/4 for 3 mana and Deathrite even shrinkes him.. but when you dont use deathrite, he can be really good late game or you can just use him as a fetchland..
Qasali Pridemage - two of them for better feeling, when playing against anybody. Body naturalize.
Birds of paradise - I know many players prefere their Noble Hierarch but they cant give you RED or BLACK mana, which you can need for Bolts or just Deathrite (even that happens sometime).
Gideon Jura - 6/6 damage unstopable creature, or creature killer or just controler of creatures in the game.. Dont underestimate this guy, he really kickes..
Elspeth, knight errant - Token spammer and buffer in one.. why not? i Just say she has to go and help my cards to hit my enemy!
Path to exile - I dont play 4 because i have a lot of luck to draw it in first turn and i even have to slow enemy down .. but with PTE you cant slow enemy down.. you only help him by giving him lands..
Treetop Village - Slow from beginning, thats why i play so many mana givers.. but turn 3 or 4 and you can start to push with them. 3/3 trample is fair pusher..
For those of you who have access to Starcity Games Premium - Kibler posted an article about his midrange Naya build that he played at GP San Diego. He didn't actually include the decklist he ran there, but he talked about all the card slots (you can get the list he ran from the GP results since he Top 8'ed). He did post a modified decklist he would use going forward...which I think I might adopt over the Gruul Zoo I've been running. Just need to pick some KoTR and regain Thundermaw Hellkites which I'll probably wait till summer to do when they drop (or if they get reprinted in M14).
I'd post the decklist but I'm unsure of the rules regarding that since it is a premium article after all.
"He plays in a walk in humidor so keep his foils from bending. He once kept an all land hand just to know what it felt like to be mana flooded. He uses power nine for ante. He is the most interesting magic playing in the world." Old man, "I don't always tap basic lands for mana, but when i do, I tap Gurus."
"He plays in a walk in humidor so keep his foils from bending. He once kept an all land hand just to know what it felt like to be mana flooded. He uses power nine for ante. He is the most interesting magic playing in the world." Old man, "I don't always tap basic lands for mana, but when i do, I tap Gurus."
I didn't do too well. I blame this on some early misplays (I haven't played burn to end the game in a long time!), then a blowout by kitchen finks, then a god hand by Infect.
My observations from my experiences:
-Grim Lavamancer is great
-Kird Ape/Loam Lion are too small
-Flinthoof Boar is awkward (but the haste is nice)
-Never missed the size of KotR, so Smiter stays
-The burn cards are by far the best cards in the deck
-Experiment One is not really scary or awesome
That looks just like the coverage list. I played it a few games Saturday night and it had real problems against UWR midrange. The only game I managed to pull out was sticking a Smiter and Elspeth at the same time.
It's good against Nu-Jund and Post Board Tron
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
So I have been putting some real thought into a Zoo build that takes advantage of Cavern of Souls. Namely with humans. Not so much a human tribal but close.
There are so many great Zoo beat sticks that are Humans.
@ xmas_asn: This is a "danger of cool things issue". Meaning that just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Further, what's the point? Countermagic is not a big deal in this format.
However, you do bring up one excellent point: Thalia
Almost every single deck in the format is more non-creature spells than creature spells. Thalia is universally relevant; awesome in every match. Would Thalia Zoo be worthwhile?
@ the_cardfather: Even post board? Because while that list looks cool, I live in the land of blue decks and UWR Midrange is the boogeyman
@ xmas_asn: This is a "danger of cool things issue". Meaning that just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Further, what's the point? Countermagic is not a big deal in this format.
However, you do bring up one excellent point: Thalia
Almost every single deck in the format is more non-creature spells than creature spells. Thalia is universally relevant; awesome in every match. Would Thalia Zoo be worthwhile?
@ the_cardfather: Even post board? Because while that list looks cool, I live in the land of blue decks and UWR Midrange is the boogeyman
It would still run Goyfs, and Finks ect. But since you have discredited my idea I guess I will abandon the whole thing and accept udder failure.
Maybe I was wrong thinking that the current meta is about 35% control. I guess counter magic.....isn't a big deal.
However, you do bring up one excellent point: Thalia
Almost every single deck in the format is more non-creature spells than creature spells. Thalia is universally relevant; awesome in every match. Would Thalia Zoo be worthwhile?
The problem I have found with Thalia, is that even though she does something against all decks, she doesn't do enough against any deck. Thalia matches up poorly against midrange and ramp decks (because they have little difficulty paying for her tax), and modern is literally lousy with those right now.
It would still run Goyfs, and Finks ect. But since you have discredited my idea I guess I will abandon the whole thing and accept udder failure.
Maybe I was wrong thinking that the current meta is about 35% control. I guess counter magic.....isn't a big deal.
Maybe it's just my meta, but I don't see how UW Control and it's variants make up 35% of the field. I can't think of any other deck that keeps counterspells in against us. Are you referring to some other control deck?
Maybe it's just my meta, but I don't see how UW Control and it's variants make up 35% of the field. I can't think of any other deck that keeps counterspells in against us. Are you referring to some other control deck?
Well I am using MTGtop8.com for my information. I would say that is a Simi Accurate of my own meta. My meta might be just a little lighter on Aggro. So if you don't like the stats you could always message them and tell them that you want to discredit there stats.
As for the second part of your reply. I don't know many Control decks that keep in Counters for us in game two. But I can think of 100% that have to have them in game one. That might be enough to explore possible options for Caven.
And last part of your reply. Other Control decks I can refer too are Mono Blue Tron and Gift Control.
Not necessarily. Kibler's deck is great, but I think it only represents one direction you can take Naya.
CG
Very true. I am currently testing smaller zoo for Naya and doing pretty well. Kiblers deck only represents one style of Naya based on his predictions of the Meta for that GP.
Don't underestimate his +1 ability. It can be super effective. I have been on the receiving end of it. Forcing a key land to be tapped really sucks. That being said, it is kinda slow and there are better options like Elspeth. He could have a nice controlish feel, but I don't see myself being able to play him.
From what I tested he's fine as a one of. Most of the time he came down as a lightening helix and then got some added value from keeping a land tapped. While at the same time he represented a major threat that needed to be dealt with lest he put you out of the game.
Never really wanted to draw him, always happen when I did.
Standard-
WRG-Naya Humans
EDH-
RUG- Animar
RW- Brion Stoutarm
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Sacred Foundry
3x Marsh Flats
1x Mountain
1x Stomping Ground
4x Treetop village
2x Horizon Canopy
1x Temple Garden
4x Arid Mesa
2x Plains
1x Forest
4x Kithen Finks
3x Deathrite Shaman
4x Loxodon Smiter
3x Knight of the Reliquary
2x Qasali Pridemage
4x Birds of paradise
4x Tarmogoyf
3x Gideon Jura
3x Lightning Helix
2x Thundermaw Hellkite
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Path to Exile
Why this Crew?
Kitchen Finks - It is a creature which gives you 2 hp when enter the game so he helps you when you fetches a lands and can be a good blocker or attacker, cuz his Persist makes angry many players.
Deathrite Shaman- Is not in full number cuz he shrinks tarm and Kotr, but good mana giver and lifegain or grim servis always avalible...
Loxodon Smiter - Strong against Jund, he just waits for Liliana to discard ability, or for blue player ready with mana leak on turn two.. and did i say that it is 4/4 for 3 mana? Which you usually have in turn 2?
Knight of the reliquary - I know he is slow in modern format, usually 3/3 or 4/4 for 3 mana and Deathrite even shrinkes him.. but when you dont use deathrite, he can be really good late game or you can just use him as a fetchland..
Qasali Pridemage - two of them for better feeling, when playing against anybody. Body naturalize.
Birds of paradise - I know many players prefere their Noble Hierarch but they cant give you RED or BLACK mana, which you can need for Bolts or just Deathrite (even that happens sometime).
Tarmogoyf - The best creature i have ever met!
Gideon Jura - 6/6 damage unstopable creature, or creature killer or just controler of creatures in the game.. Dont underestimate this guy, he really kickes..
Lightning bolts - 3 damage for one mana .. .cool
Elspeth, knight errant - Token spammer and buffer in one.. why not? i Just say she has to go and help my cards to hit my enemy!
Path to exile - I dont play 4 because i have a lot of luck to draw it in first turn and i even have to slow enemy down .. but with PTE you cant slow enemy down.. you only help him by giving him lands..
Treetop Village - Slow from beginning, thats why i play so many mana givers.. but turn 3 or 4 and you can start to push with them. 3/3 trample is fair pusher..
Thundermaw Hellkite Game finisher, makes deck more aggro.
60 cards
4 Arid Mesa
1 Blood Crypt
2 Forest
1 Gavony Township
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Marsh Flats
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
1 Raging Ravine
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Stomping Ground
2 Temple Garden
4 Verdant Catacombs
23 lands
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
20 creatures
3 Blood Moon
2 Dismember
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Lightning Helix
2 Lingering Souls
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of War and Peace
17 other spells
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Aven Mindcensor
1 Batterskull
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Path to Exile
2 Slaughter Games
2 Spellskite
2 Stony Silence
2 Wrath of God
I'd post the decklist but I'm unsure of the rules regarding that since it is a premium article after all.
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/25866_Getting-The-Band-Back-Together.html
It's on the front page.
3 Loam Lion
4 Kird Ape
3 Flinthoof
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Helix
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Boros Charm
1 ajani veng
4 Arid Mesa
2 Stomping Ground
3 Sacred Foundry
1 Temple Garden
3 Marsh Flats
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
I didn't do too well. I blame this on some early misplays (I haven't played burn to end the game in a long time!), then a blowout by kitchen finks, then a god hand by Infect.
My observations from my experiences:
-Grim Lavamancer is great
-Kird Ape/Loam Lion are too small
-Flinthoof Boar is awkward (but the haste is nice)
-Never missed the size of KotR, so Smiter stays
-The burn cards are by far the best cards in the deck
-Experiment One is not really scary or awesome
This is what I'm going to try next:
4 Vexing Devil
3 Kird Ape
2 Loam Lion
2 Flinthoof
4 Goyf
4 Smiter
4 Helix
4 Boros Charm
3 Path
21 land
------------------------------
Is there a matchup analysis/explanation of Kibler's list? I'm having a hard time grokking his deck.
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Kitchen Finks
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Lotus Cobra
4 Loxodon Smiter
3 Noble Hierarch
1 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Thundermaw Hellkite
Planeswalkers: (5)
1 Ajani Vengeant
3 Domri Rade
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Lands: (23)
2 Forest
2 Plains
4 Arid Mesa
1 Blood Crypt
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Marsh Flats
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
1 Treetop Village
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Path to Exile
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Torpor Orb
2 Aven Mindcensor
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
3 Blood Moon
2 Stony Silence
1 Combust
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Tectonic Edge
It's good against Nu-Jund and Post Board Tron
There are so many great Zoo beat sticks that are Humans.
Are the ones I can think of of the top of my head. I'm not sure what direction this build could go exactly, but I think it is worth exploring.
Thoughts?
However, you do bring up one excellent point: Thalia
Almost every single deck in the format is more non-creature spells than creature spells. Thalia is universally relevant; awesome in every match. Would Thalia Zoo be worthwhile?
@ the_cardfather: Even post board? Because while that list looks cool, I live in the land of blue decks and UWR Midrange is the boogeyman
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
Maybe I was wrong thinking that the current meta is about 35% control. I guess counter magic.....isn't a big deal.
I will agree Thalia is legit.
The problem I have found with Thalia, is that even though she does something against all decks, she doesn't do enough against any deck. Thalia matches up poorly against midrange and ramp decks (because they have little difficulty paying for her tax), and modern is literally lousy with those right now.
Maybe it's just my meta, but I don't see how UW Control and it's variants make up 35% of the field. I can't think of any other deck that keeps counterspells in against us. Are you referring to some other control deck?
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
Well I am using MTGtop8.com for my information. I would say that is a Simi Accurate of my own meta. My meta might be just a little lighter on Aggro. So if you don't like the stats you could always message them and tell them that you want to discredit there stats.
As for the second part of your reply. I don't know many Control decks that keep in Counters for us in game two. But I can think of 100% that have to have them in game one. That might be enough to explore possible options for Caven.
And last part of your reply. Other Control decks I can refer too are Mono Blue Tron and Gift Control.