It has been while since i sleeved up Big Zoo and i've been meaning to do so since the release of Gruul Spellbreaker.
I'm very excited for Finale of Devastation and can see it's inclusion in a Big Zoo list. The thing that made GSZ so good though, was it's ability to ramp T1 with Dryad Arbor. This thing just doesn't do that. Ramping T2 is not something i want to be in Modern, so it loses that powerful extra. Though with all the uninteractiveness going on it might very well be worth it and ramp to 4cmc (Shalai / BBE).
The ability to toolbox for real and especially the recursive ability is what makes this card very attractive!
Hi all!
I posted this list in stompy thread, but maybe it's better suited here. My main deck rUG evole is not doing great in this meta, so i'm trying more aggressive gruul-style of stompy now. Any comments w'd be welcome!
The idea is to get some creatures in the field, hold up interaction, and stretch to midrangey play if needed after sideboarding. The mainboard cindervines chance places with blossoming defense quite often, as i'm not a fan of the latter here. Some removal might be better.
I've also considered adding splash of white, for obvious paths etc. and especially as i'd like to try proclamation of rebirth in sideboard. Then again, not sure if splash is needed, as it is i like my chances against burn and moons are nice too. Any suggestions for red removal?
Hi all!
I posted this list in stompy thread, but maybe it's better suited here. My main deck rUG evole is not doing great in this meta, so i'm trying more aggressive gruul-style of stompy now. Any comments w'd be welcome!
The idea is to get some creatures in the field, hold up interaction, and stretch to midrangey play if needed after sideboarding. The mainboard cindervines chance places with blossoming defense quite often, as i'm not a fan of the latter here. Some removal might be better.
I've also considered adding splash of white, for obvious paths etc. and especially as i'd like to try proclamation of rebirth in sideboard. Then again, not sure if splash is needed, as it is i like my chances against burn and moons are nice too. Any suggestions for red removal?
[/deck]
I already saw your post in the Stompy thread, since I am a Long year Stompy Player, but I guess that one really fits better in here.
To your deck: I guess you're mixing two archetypes here, while simultaneously leaving out the key components of each one. So, for the Stompy part you are missing the Power boost of Steel Leaf Champion and Aspect of Hydra, while for the Zoo part the deck is missing the explosiveness of Wild Nacatl and the BTE/Bushwhacker Combo.
The 8 evolvers + Renegade and Vexing Devil is a nice start, also including 4 Dryad is really good in the current meta. But in my eyes you are lacking a consistent plan after that - you either want to smash the Opponent with raw power (Stompy), go wide and fast (Zoo) or bring the last Damage through (Burn). But I guess Scooze and Spellbreaker dilute your deck into something midrang-esk, which it cannot support.
Also, Relic and Cindervines do not seem maindeck-worthy in your strategy. You have exactly one plan in this archetypes, which is killing the Opponent. The disruption belongs to the Sideboard.
Really looking forward to some testing results, because maybe I am wrong with my assessment. But just from seeing the list, that would be my conclusion.
I already saw your post in the Stompy thread, since I am a Long year Stompy Player, but I guess that one really fits better in here.
To your deck: I guess you're mixing two archetypes here, while simultaneously leaving out the key components of each one. So, for the Stompy part you are missing the Power boost of Steel Leaf Champion and Aspect of Hydra, while for the Zoo part the deck is missing the explosiveness of Wild Nacatl and the BTE/Bushwhacker Combo.
The 8 evolvers + Renegade and Vexing Devil is a nice start, also including 4 Dryad is really good in the current meta. But in my eyes you are lacking a consistent plan after that - you either want to smash the Opponent with raw power (Stompy), go wide and fast (Zoo) or bring the last Damage through (Burn). But I guess Scooze and Spellbreaker dilute your deck into something midrang-esk, which it cannot support.
Also, Relic and Cindervines do not seem maindeck-worthy in your strategy. You have exactly one plan in this archetypes, which is killing the Opponent. The disruption belongs to the Sideboard.
Really looking forward to some testing results, because maybe I am wrong with my assessment. But just from seeing the list, that would be my conclusion.
Thank you! I think ur right about those cards, tho i'm probably trying to go a bit different direction. Took out the ones u suggested and this is what im trying now:
Finale of Devastation has impressed me a lot in the few games I've played. Being able to tutor and get threats back from the graveyard I think is a good thing for the deck.
I will agree with you that I don't think Dryad Arbor is needed in the deck with Finale. I never really wanted to find it on T2, and I always wanted to hold Finale for X=2 or X=3 to find another threat or utility creature.
Since this card goes in the graveyard, unlike Green Sun's Zenith, it plays well with Goyf, but because it does not go back, I never wanted to fire it off right away: only when I needed to recover a creature or get a good threat on board after a board wipe.
Sideboard could use some work. I just modified a sideboard from one of my other zoo lists.
I ran this deck back again last week to 2 different 3-1 finishes. Faithless Looting definitely feels very strong in the list when you're digging for specific cards in such a crazy random un-interactive format right now. It won be about 3-4 games alone by digging for what I needed. When/if the meta goes back to being a grind/midrange oriented format then they'll get cut, but for the foreseeable future I think they're necessary at finding the hate cards.
Most traditional midrange Zoo builds lean heavily on Tarmogoyf. If he's not an option then I would consider a more aggressive Reckless Bushwhacker build like this:
If you want to transition to that from Boros Burn, pick up some green fetches and shocks, Atarka's Command, and Vexing Devil. The rest of the deck overlaps with the Burn cards you probably already have or is very cheap. I also would replace the 1-of Copperline Gorge with something else since it doesn't play nicely with Nacatl.
Doesn't Need any Goyfs (a lot of Fetches though), and you can definitely use the Burn staples for the Sideboard.
In order to replace Goyf you want as many cheap undercosted beaters as possible, Wild Nacatl, Kird Ape and Experiment One are good examples here. You already finish the curve with the BTE/Herbalist/Bushwhacker interaction.
The deck is really fun and explosive, although not very resilient - especially against opposing Goyfs.
I also like the configuration posted by deeperblue, which utilizes the Pelt Collector/Vexing Devil "combo".
Edit: Totally agree on the Fastlands like Copperline Gorge. The use of Nacatl and Kird Ape make These lands practically unplayable in this Version, since you cannot afford the loss of power. The lifeloss of Fetch + Shock is hardly relevant, since you're faster than most other decks.
Hi all!
I posted this list in stompy thread, but maybe it's better suited here. My main deck rUG evole is not doing great in this meta, so i'm trying more aggressive gruul-style of stompy now. Any comments w'd be welcome!
The idea is to get some creatures in the field, hold up interaction, and stretch to midrangey play if needed after sideboarding. The mainboard cindervines chance places with blossoming defense quite often, as i'm not a fan of the latter here. Some removal might be better.
I've also considered adding splash of white, for obvious paths etc. and especially as i'd like to try proclamation of rebirth in sideboard. Then again, not sure if splash is needed, as it is i like my chances against burn and moons are nice too. Any suggestions for red removal?
Hi all!
I posted this list in stompy thread, but maybe it's better suited here. My main deck rUG evole is not doing great in this meta, so i'm trying more aggressive gruul-style of stompy now. Any comments w'd be welcome!
The idea is to get some creatures in the field, hold up interaction, and stretch to midrangey play if needed after sideboarding. The mainboard cindervines chance places with blossoming defense quite often, as i'm not a fan of the latter here. Some removal might be better.
I've also considered adding splash of white, for obvious paths etc. and especially as i'd like to try proclamation of rebirth in sideboard. Then again, not sure if splash is needed, as it is i like my chances against burn and moons are nice too. Any suggestions for red removal?
I really enjoy this build. Have you tried jamming in a few copies of Harden Scales?
Nope, actually since i made the changes to include 2x goblin cratermaker and 2x magus of the moon i've often found that my creatures don't have enough counters to make avatar a good card.
Instead i've been pondering how to make room for some smuggler's copters.
I reallyreallyreally enjoy playing the deck, and magus is such a fun card game one, as people dont seem to expect it.
If all goes well it c'd often make turn 4 win, but many times i play a bit cautiously for various reasons. The problem is to run out of steam if the game goes longer, and copters could help that i think.
What i've learnt from testing is i mostly need 2 lands in opener, E1 gets played before pelt collector, and cindervines are very good against any sort of longer game control deck. This build is not quite fast enough to play eidolon of the great revel, but cindervines serves slightly the same purpose.
Shadow, infect, control, tron and even burn are winnable mu's, eldrazi tron, humans, and other big creature-decks are harder.
What do u think? How do u play against those bad mu's?
Yeah without Book Burning or alot more relevant things that mill/discard in the colors we want its not that great as a early drop and late game there are better things.
I think if you're playing mongoose you probably want 4 faithless lootings, 11-12 fetch lands, some amount of horizon lands, and that's a lot of work just for a 1 mana 3/3 with shroud that gets outclasses pretty fast.
Agree - if you take a look at Legacy, where Mongoose is played in the Canadian threshold decks, those look a lot more like somthing we would call Temur Delver in Modern. So you would Need Thought Scour to make the Card really work, and neither the blue Splash nor Faithless Looting sounds very appealing for the existing RG/Naya builds. Mongoose would make Zoo also susceptible to maindeck Graveyard-hate like Scooze or Relic, which is totally irrelevant for the current builds.
So I guess Mongoose would Need a different build around it than the lists we saw here so far, or that would qualify as "Zoo".
Maybe the original RG Hollow One decks can use it?
Rabblemaster, Thalias, Shalai, and no KotR are all very interesting to me. I've been debating which 2 drops to play besides Goyf since Voice has kinda sucked for me, so I'll try Thalia one of these days. Tbh I'm hoping for a decent aggressive green 2-drop from MH. I do love the sideboard though, no nonsense just solid hate.
Since mtgsalvation is shutting down end of an era , should we find a new home to pledge our discussions ? Maybe Jump to https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGZoo/ as some people are already over there, i'm sure they would welcome us.
Thoughts ?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I'm very excited for Finale of Devastation and can see it's inclusion in a Big Zoo list. The thing that made GSZ so good though, was it's ability to ramp T1 with Dryad Arbor. This thing just doesn't do that. Ramping T2 is not something i want to be in Modern, so it loses that powerful extra. Though with all the uninteractiveness going on it might very well be worth it and ramp to 4cmc (Shalai / BBE).
The ability to toolbox for real and especially the recursive ability is what makes this card very attractive!
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
I posted this list in stompy thread, but maybe it's better suited here. My main deck rUG evole is not doing great in this meta, so i'm trying more aggressive gruul-style of stompy now. Any comments w'd be welcome!
The idea is to get some creatures in the field, hold up interaction, and stretch to midrangey play if needed after sideboarding. The mainboard cindervines chance places with blossoming defense quite often, as i'm not a fan of the latter here. Some removal might be better.
I've also considered adding splash of white, for obvious paths etc. and especially as i'd like to try proclamation of rebirth in sideboard. Then again, not sure if splash is needed, as it is i like my chances against burn and moons are nice too. Any suggestions for red removal?
4x experiment one
4x dryad militant
2x narnam renegade
4x vexing devil
4x strangleroot geist
2x scavenging ooze
1x avatar of the resolute
3x gruul spellbreaker
4x lightning bolt
2x relic of progenitus
4x atarka's command
20 lands:
10x green fetch
3x stomping ground
3x forest
4x copperline gorge
1x goblin cratermaker (flex)
2x blood moon
3x ancient grudge
3x life goes on
2x heroic intervention
2x blossoming defense
1x pyroclasm
1x firespout
I already saw your post in the Stompy thread, since I am a Long year Stompy Player, but I guess that one really fits better in here.
To your deck: I guess you're mixing two archetypes here, while simultaneously leaving out the key components of each one. So, for the Stompy part you are missing the Power boost of Steel Leaf Champion and Aspect of Hydra, while for the Zoo part the deck is missing the explosiveness of Wild Nacatl and the BTE/Bushwhacker Combo.
The 8 evolvers + Renegade and Vexing Devil is a nice start, also including 4 Dryad is really good in the current meta. But in my eyes you are lacking a consistent plan after that - you either want to smash the Opponent with raw power (Stompy), go wide and fast (Zoo) or bring the last Damage through (Burn). But I guess Scooze and Spellbreaker dilute your deck into something midrang-esk, which it cannot support.
Also, Relic and Cindervines do not seem maindeck-worthy in your strategy. You have exactly one plan in this archetypes, which is killing the Opponent. The disruption belongs to the Sideboard.
So in my opinion, switch These Cards for either Steel Leaf Champion and Aspect of Hydra, Wild Nacatl + Burning Tree Emissary + Reckless Bushwhacker (and Temple Garden + Sacred Foundry for the Manabase), or maybe a couple of Boros Charms and other Burn Cards.
Really looking forward to some testing results, because maybe I am wrong with my assessment. But just from seeing the list, that would be my conclusion.
Thank you! I think ur right about those cards, tho i'm probably trying to go a bit different direction. Took out the ones u suggested and this is what im trying now:
4x experiment one
4x dryad militant
2x narnam renegade
4x vexing devil
4x strangleroot geist
2x scavenging ooze
2x goblin cratermaker
2x avatar of the resolute
2x gruul spellbreaker
2x magus of the moon
4x atarka's command
20 lands:
8x green fetch
3x stomping ground
5x forest
4x other
2x rending volley
2x ancient grudge
3x life goes on
2x relic of progenitus
1x pyroclasm
I'll let u know how the testing goes..
I've done a few test matches with Finale of Devastation with the following list (based off yours):
4x Path to Exile
1x Lightning Helix
4x Finale of Devastation
1x Rhythm of the Wild
4x Wild Nacatl
4x Noble Hierarch
1x Qasali Pridemage
2x Scavenging Ooze
3x Tarmogoyf
1x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1x Kraul Harpooner
1x Knight of Autumn
1x Tireless Tracker
1x Renegade Rallier
3x Knight of the Reliquary
1x Huntmaster of the Fells
4x Wooded Foothills
2x Arid Mesa
2x Stomping Ground
2x Sacred Foundry
1x Temple Garden
2x Forest
1x Plains
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Copperline Gorge
1x Stirring Wildwood
1x Kessig Wolf Run
1x Dryad Arbor
2x Gradigger's Cage
1x Rending Volley
1x Ancient Grudge
2x Cindervines
1x Declaration in Stone
2x Stony Silence
1x Knight of Autumn
1x Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2x Ravenous Trap
1x Hazoret the Fervent
1x Domri, Chaos Bringer
Finale of Devastation has impressed me a lot in the few games I've played. Being able to tutor and get threats back from the graveyard I think is a good thing for the deck.
I will agree with you that I don't think Dryad Arbor is needed in the deck with Finale. I never really wanted to find it on T2, and I always wanted to hold Finale for X=2 or X=3 to find another threat or utility creature.
Since this card goes in the graveyard, unlike Green Sun's Zenith, it plays well with Goyf, but because it does not go back, I never wanted to fire it off right away: only when I needed to recover a creature or get a good threat on board after a board wipe.
Sideboard could use some work. I just modified a sideboard from one of my other zoo lists.
I ran this deck back again last week to 2 different 3-1 finishes. Faithless Looting definitely feels very strong in the list when you're digging for specific cards in such a crazy random un-interactive format right now. It won be about 3-4 games alone by digging for what I needed. When/if the meta goes back to being a grind/midrange oriented format then they'll get cut, but for the foreseeable future I think they're necessary at finding the hate cards.
Need a collection tracker? Use EchoMTG here: https://www.echomtg.com/r/7bb6961d/
Join the Zoo Discord: https://discord.gg/Yu6eTSTrzA
What are some essential cards in order to transition to Zoo ? Some fastlands? What creatures are currently optimal ?
I am not getting Goyf tho.
http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=29526&iddeck=246934
If you want to transition to that from Boros Burn, pick up some green fetches and shocks, Atarka's Command, and Vexing Devil. The rest of the deck overlaps with the Burn cards you probably already have or is very cheap. I also would replace the 1-of Copperline Gorge with something else since it doesn't play nicely with Nacatl.
3 Arid Mesa
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
//Enchantments
1 Rancor
//Instants
3 Atarka's Command
1 Dismember
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
2 Experiment One
2 Ghor-Clan Rampager
3 Goblin Guide
4 Hidden Herbalists
3 Kird Ape
4 Narnam Renegade
4 Reckless Bushwhacker
2 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Vexing Devil
4 Wild Nacatl
2 Boros Charm
2 Destructive Revelry
2 Dryad Militant
1 Forked Bolt
2 Lightning Helix
1 Molten Rain
2 Path to Exile
1 Rest in Peace
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Doesn't Need any Goyfs (a lot of Fetches though), and you can definitely use the Burn staples for the Sideboard.
In order to replace Goyf you want as many cheap undercosted beaters as possible, Wild Nacatl, Kird Ape and Experiment One are good examples here. You already finish the curve with the BTE/Herbalist/Bushwhacker interaction.
The deck is really fun and explosive, although not very resilient - especially against opposing Goyfs.
I also like the configuration posted by deeperblue, which utilizes the Pelt Collector/Vexing Devil "combo".
Edit: Totally agree on the Fastlands like Copperline Gorge. The use of Nacatl and Kird Ape make These lands practically unplayable in this Version, since you cannot afford the loss of power. The lifeloss of Fetch + Shock is hardly relevant, since you're faster than most other decks.
I really enjoy this build. Have you tried jamming in a few copies of Harden Scales?
Nope, actually since i made the changes to include 2x goblin cratermaker and 2x magus of the moon i've often found that my creatures don't have enough counters to make avatar a good card.
Instead i've been pondering how to make room for some smuggler's copters.
I reallyreallyreally enjoy playing the deck, and magus is such a fun card game one, as people dont seem to expect it.
If all goes well it c'd often make turn 4 win, but many times i play a bit cautiously for various reasons. The problem is to run out of steam if the game goes longer, and copters could help that i think.
What i've learnt from testing is i mostly need 2 lands in opener, E1 gets played before pelt collector, and cindervines are very good against any sort of longer game control deck. This build is not quite fast enough to play eidolon of the great revel, but cindervines serves slightly the same purpose.
Shadow, infect, control, tron and even burn are winnable mu's, eldrazi tron, humans, and other big creature-decks are harder.
What do u think? How do u play against those bad mu's?
So we can add it in to zoo decks now.
Need a collection tracker? Use EchoMTG here: https://www.echomtg.com/r/7bb6961d/
Join the Zoo Discord: https://discord.gg/Yu6eTSTrzA
So I guess Mongoose would Need a different build around it than the lists we saw here so far, or that would qualify as "Zoo".
Maybe the original RG Hollow One decks can use it?
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl
1 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Domri, Anarch of Bolas
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Raging Ravine
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
2 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
4 Damping Sphere
2 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Knight of Autumn
2 Voice of Resurgence
2 Stony Silence
2 Gaddock Teeg
Rabblemaster, Thalias, Shalai, and no KotR are all very interesting to me. I've been debating which 2 drops to play besides Goyf since Voice has kinda sucked for me, so I'll try Thalia one of these days. Tbh I'm hoping for a decent aggressive green 2-drop from MH. I do love the sideboard though, no nonsense just solid hate.
Need a collection tracker? Use EchoMTG here: https://www.echomtg.com/r/7bb6961d/
Join the Zoo Discord: https://discord.gg/Yu6eTSTrzA
https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=21911&d=347539&f=MO
Thoughts ?