I had a fortune to obtain 4 copies of VoR and tried swapping out 2~4 copies in place of Goyf. And it's a really close call for me. I love hating out instant speed removals/counters by restricting them to sorcery, and token generated from it was always nice with potential to get bigger - packing close to 30 creature counts, it always usually is 3/3 or 4/4. But Goyf is such a powerhouse. At the end of day, VoR will just remain a 2/2 and proves to be no immediate threat on board.
I'm currently running 2 VoR/2 Goyf split. Anyone else had much chance to playtest VoR yet?
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Just a casual guy playing around with expensive cards.
I havent really tested it, but its worth testing. Pod and hatebears used it really well recently, but hate bears capped on the hate part of it (and fauna to fetch it as a bullet) and pod used it as a sac+beats
I don't think Goyf is the creature to replace for VoR. If we're talking Kibler Naya, you probably only have room for 1-2 of them and I'm not entirely sure what you would take out for it.
"He plays in a walk in humidor so keep his foils from bending. He once kept an all land hand just to know what it felt like to be mana flooded. He uses power nine for ante. He is the most interesting magic playing in the world." Old man, "I don't always tap basic lands for mana, but when i do, I tap Gurus."
How good is 'Goyf in these decks? Most of them are 80% creatures and lands with a couple Planeswalkers and Instants. With no way of feeding the graveyard and with only a few card types it seems like Goyf would be anemic.
How good is 'Goyf in these decks? Most of them are 80% creatures and lands with a couple Planeswalkers and Instants. With no way of feeding the graveyard and with only a few card types it seems like Goyf would be anemic.
Even with only Fetch, Instant, Creature in the yard, (we'll say you Bolt'd or Helix'd something, which should likely happen every game) Goyf is a 3/4 for 2cc.
If you can name a 2 drop that does better than that (with the off-chance of growing bigger from an opponents card), then you should play it, i suppose, but, there really isn't much that's better than that. Voice is, kinda, but he, too, is dependent on your opponent.
How good is 'Goyf in these decks? Most of them are 80% creatures and lands with a couple Planeswalkers and Instants. With no way of feeding the graveyard and with only a few card types it seems like Goyf would be anemic.
He's pretty good. Figure by T2 against a lot of decks you will have the following sequence:
"He plays in a walk in humidor so keep his foils from bending. He once kept an all land hand just to know what it felt like to be mana flooded. He uses power nine for ante. He is the most interesting magic playing in the world." Old man, "I don't always tap basic lands for mana, but when i do, I tap Gurus."
Would appreciate any feedback from people more well-versed in the archetype.
I think you need a boros charm or 2 in the side. Also I think that smiter is better then knight. Unless you were using the knight and deathrite togather for ramping (like people have done to get thundermaw)
Hello all, I know very little about Zoo but the following list which surfaced (online I believe) a few months ago really appealed to me. Do you think that this version is a good choice in the current metagame? Two problems I see is that it may be over-reliant on the Boros Charm/Might of Alara combo, the other, and more important (likely) is that I feel that this deck REALLY wants some Lightning Helixes
I know that the list has been posted before here but I have not seen it discussed. What do you think?
Well too me I see this as not really a Naya Zoo deck but more of a Gruul Zoo with a splash of white... Naya Zoo revolves around the mid-range with Knights/Smiters/etc... Here mostly hitting the big 1 drops and several removal which is relevant in the Gruul Zoo area! If I were you, go ahead and check out Lantern's build with White too see the similarities between them!
If you dont use Gruul with Bloodrush go for Big Naya Zoo and use the cards you are thinking about ^^
I would cut 2(-3) Pridemages and add +2 Domri (+1 Path) in your List.
Sarkhan Vol or even Sarkhan the Mad seem very interesting in Kibler Zoo.
Sarkhan Vols -2 can be relevant when we play against other Aggro or Midrange Deck. Unfortunatly he is semi good against Combo. The +1 is nice to have but not worth it imo. Ulti is win, yes, but I will not count on that. Ajanis Ulti is stronger.
Sarkhan the Mad +0 is an other Cardraw which can be important. His -2 will transform our Manadork into a 5/5 Dragon, ready to smash faces, nice! His -4 can be a nice 5DMG if we have a Hellkite out or created a Token before. However he cant protect himself, but well, if we have no creatures or a good board position at this point I think we have lost anyways.
I think I will test Sarkhan the Mad as a 1-off, probably kicking 1 Cobra.
Here is the List as a reference:
I fear that Goyf will get a huge problem after M14 release as I predict that Oozes will float around a lot. Maybe filling those Spots with something else, but lets wait and see. (=> Woolly Thoctar seems sexy to me, no drawback and anti synergy with DRS, but +1 mana..)
Honestly if you are at the point of running a 5 mana PW, you are probably better off running a 3rd Thundermaw Hellkite. Yes Sarkhan does give you card draw, but at 5 mana it is way too much for me. Plus Thundermaw has better synergy with Domri
I highly doubt Scavenging Ooze will be as much of a problem for Goyf in Modern. Take Legacy for example. Only one deck runs the Ooze (Maverick I believe), and Maverick barely top8s anymore while Goyf is still running around somehwhat (between deathblade and combo now, not so much :P). The thing with Ooze is it must survive a lightning bolt, which means it effectively becomes a 4/4 for 1GGG. Wilt-Leaf Liege seems better with that mana cost
However, I could see it as a 1-2x in the sb say vs gifts or if reanimator becomes huge. (maybe even living end).
I am kind of interested in Woolly Thoctar... We will see what GP KC gives us since that is the next big event.
I'm playing Kiblers list with 3x Domri Rade. It's a very fun deck to play but I'm having doubts about Lotus Cobra. Is it really necessary? It's acceleration, but there is already six mana dudes in the deck. The only application I see is a turn 3 Thundermaw Hellkite, otherwise it is just a 2/1.
I haven't played with the Cobra that much, so I might be undervaluing it's importance, so if any one else that is more experienced would like to explain it's part in the deck and how to correctly play it, that would be nice.
Otherwise I'm thinking about replacing it with another two drop, e.g. Voice of Resurgence or Scavenging Ooze, when it is released in M14. Thoughts?
I asked him on one of his streams what #'s he ran for Voice of Resurgence in Portland and he said he cut the Finks and a pridemage for 3 of them, and that 4 was probably correct and that he might drop the lotus cobra's since Voice is much better in the 2 drop. So I ended up cutting the cobras and finks in my version for 4 voice's, leaving the 1 pridemage. I haven't had any problems with it. Cobra can be nice to explode into Hellkite or generate a big Kessig, but more often than not Cobra gets killed.
"He plays in a walk in humidor so keep his foils from bending. He once kept an all land hand just to know what it felt like to be mana flooded. He uses power nine for ante. He is the most interesting magic playing in the world." Old man, "I don't always tap basic lands for mana, but when i do, I tap Gurus."
I recently found this deck (and video deck tech and matches by kibler) as i was searching for a proper deck to take to a modern fest that is going to be held in argentina next week.
I usually hate naya and jund decks because they´re so linear and so "mainstream". The card that changed the way of thinking i had in regards to the deck is knight of the reliquary. After about 10 games playing with it, it quickly became one of my top 5 favorite cards and is what transforms this deck from "straight agro" to something slightly "comboish".
Anyways. The decklist i´m running is something like the following:
I still have real doubts about the mana base, sometimes i find myself without white mana. There is also no way to add black early on with shaman unless you give up the chance of adding red or white (which you usually need because of helix),
I did add to the original list, the qasali, an elspeth, an ajani and the helices. I also added the stronghold and the tectonic edges which are just AWESOME when you can kill a celestial colonnade or inkmoth nexus, a third blue source for the cryptic command, a tron piece etc etc.
I don´t own any goyfs, which i notice now is a REAL problem, since the only way to combat other goyfs is really 2 for 1 ing myself, smiter (and praying), path or a big unanswered knight of the reliquary, although shaman, ajani and elspeth could be a indirect answer to it.
I upped the number of walkers and added both thrun maindeck. Which decreased the amount of creatures, but actually does not bother that much since ticking domri rade up is good by itself.
The question i have is very alike the question someone else posted. Do i keep the cobras? Do i take them out for voices?
Do you guys think the 2 thrun main deck is a good call? We´ve already got 3 domri, 4 smiter and walkers against UWR, but playing it main deck could work out well i think.
Also a thing that came up the other night, the decision of playing t2 domri over smiter or vice versa. in which cases do you play which one? Against UWR for example, what would you do?
Also a thing that came up the other night, the decision of playing t2 domri over smiter or vice versa. in which cases do you play which one? Against UWR for example, what would you do?
Smiter so you don't get Remanded, imo.
It's important to play around that card until you know they don't have it, or it doesn't matter. Especially on T2.
He also makes it impossible for them to play a Geist and is basically unanswered except for a Path.
"He plays in a walk in humidor so keep his foils from bending. He once kept an all land hand just to know what it felt like to be mana flooded. He uses power nine for ante. He is the most interesting magic playing in the world." Old man, "I don't always tap basic lands for mana, but when i do, I tap Gurus."
I'm surprised that KotR is still seeing play. Between the ubiquity of Deathrite and the impending presence of Ooze, has anyone been working on replacing KotR?
I had a fortune to obtain 4 copies of VoR and tried swapping out 2~4 copies in place of Goyf. And it's a really close call for me. I love hating out instant speed removals/counters by restricting them to sorcery, and token generated from it was always nice with potential to get bigger - packing close to 30 creature counts, it always usually is 3/3 or 4/4. But Goyf is such a powerhouse. At the end of day, VoR will just remain a 2/2 and proves to be no immediate threat on board.
I'm currently running 2 VoR/2 Goyf split. Anyone else had much chance to playtest VoR yet?
60 cards
4 Arid Mesa
1 Blood Crypt
2 Forest
1 Gavony Township
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Marsh Flats
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
1 Treetop Village
4 Verdant Catacombs
23 lands
2 Kitchen Finks
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Lotus Cobra
4 Loxodon Smiter
3 Noble Hierarch
1 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Thundermaw Hellkite
25 creatures
1 Ajani Vengeant
3 Domri Rade
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Path to Exile
12 other spells
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Batterskull
3 Blood Moon
1 Combust
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Stony Silence
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
1 Torpor Orb
1 Ulvenwald Tracker
60 cards
4 Arid Mesa
1 Blood Crypt
1 Breeding Pool
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Marsh Flats
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Snow-Covered Plains
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
22 lands
4 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
18 creatures
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Lingering Souls
3 Path to Exile
4 Tribal Flames
20 other spells
3 Gaddock Teeg
1 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Kor Firewalker
4 Molten Rain
1 Path to Exile
3 Stony Silence
15 sideboard cards
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Voice of Resurgence
2 Aven Mindcensor
4 Knight of the Reliquary
Spells:13
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Path to Exile
2 Pillar of Flame
4 Lightning Helix
4 Arid Mesa
1 Blood Crypt
1 Forest
1 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Stomping Ground
1 Swamp
1 Temple Garden
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Path to Exile
1 Pillar of Flame
2 Back to Nature
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Rakdos Charm
2 Spellskite
2 Stony Silence
3 Kitchen Finks
Would appreciate any feedback from people more well-versed in the archetype.
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
Even with only Fetch, Instant, Creature in the yard, (we'll say you Bolt'd or Helix'd something, which should likely happen every game) Goyf is a 3/4 for 2cc.
If you can name a 2 drop that does better than that (with the off-chance of growing bigger from an opponents card), then you should play it, i suppose, but, there really isn't much that's better than that. Voice is, kinda, but he, too, is dependent on your opponent.
Sig courtesy of DOLZero
[82/360] Custom Cube
Blog about the Custom Cube
He's pretty good. Figure by T2 against a lot of decks you will have the following sequence:
You: T1 Fetch, DRS
Opp: T1 Land, Bolt DRS
You: T2 Land, Goyf (land, creature, instant =3/4)
I think you need a boros charm or 2 in the side. Also I think that smiter is better then knight. Unless you were using the knight and deathrite togather for ramping (like people have done to get thundermaw)
Well too me I see this as not really a Naya Zoo deck but more of a Gruul Zoo with a splash of white... Naya Zoo revolves around the mid-range with Knights/Smiters/etc... Here mostly hitting the big 1 drops and several removal which is relevant in the Gruul Zoo area! If I were you, go ahead and check out Lantern's build with White too see the similarities between them!
Honestly if you are at the point of running a 5 mana PW, you are probably better off running a 3rd Thundermaw Hellkite. Yes Sarkhan does give you card draw, but at 5 mana it is way too much for me. Plus Thundermaw has better synergy with Domri
I highly doubt Scavenging Ooze will be as much of a problem for Goyf in Modern. Take Legacy for example. Only one deck runs the Ooze (Maverick I believe), and Maverick barely top8s anymore while Goyf is still running around somehwhat (between deathblade and combo now, not so much :P). The thing with Ooze is it must survive a lightning bolt, which means it effectively becomes a 4/4 for 1GGG. Wilt-Leaf Liege seems better with that mana cost
However, I could see it as a 1-2x in the sb say vs gifts or if reanimator becomes huge. (maybe even living end).
I am kind of interested in Woolly Thoctar... We will see what GP KC gives us since that is the next big event.
UBR Grixis UBR
I asked him on one of his streams what #'s he ran for Voice of Resurgence in Portland and he said he cut the Finks and a pridemage for 3 of them, and that 4 was probably correct and that he might drop the lotus cobra's since Voice is much better in the 2 drop. So I ended up cutting the cobras and finks in my version for 4 voice's, leaving the 1 pridemage. I haven't had any problems with it. Cobra can be nice to explode into Hellkite or generate a big Kessig, but more often than not Cobra gets killed.
I recently found this deck (and video deck tech and matches by kibler) as i was searching for a proper deck to take to a modern fest that is going to be held in argentina next week.
I usually hate naya and jund decks because they´re so linear and so "mainstream". The card that changed the way of thinking i had in regards to the deck is knight of the reliquary. After about 10 games playing with it, it quickly became one of my top 5 favorite cards and is what transforms this deck from "straight agro" to something slightly "comboish".
Anyways. The decklist i´m running is something like the following:
3 arid mesa
1 misty rainforest
1 marsh flats
1 mountain
1 plains
2 forest
2 stomping ground
1 temple garden
1 Sacred foundry
1 Overgrown tomb
1 Stirring wildwood
2 Tectonic edge
1 Kessig wolf run
1 Slayer´s stronghold
3 birds of paradise
3 deathrite shaman
2 lotus cobra
2 Qasali pridemage
4 knight of the reliquary
4 loxodon smiter
2 thrun, the last troll
Other: 17
4 lightning bolt
3 lightning helix
3 path to exile
3 domri rade
2 elspeth, knight-errant
2 ajani vengeant
1 gaddock teeg
1 path to exile
2 aven mindcensor
3 blood moon
2 ghost quarter
1 batterskull
1 sword of war and peace
1 qasali pridemage
1 torpor orb
2 stony silence
I still have real doubts about the mana base, sometimes i find myself without white mana. There is also no way to add black early on with shaman unless you give up the chance of adding red or white (which you usually need because of helix),
I did add to the original list, the qasali, an elspeth, an ajani and the helices. I also added the stronghold and the tectonic edges which are just AWESOME when you can kill a celestial colonnade or inkmoth nexus, a third blue source for the cryptic command, a tron piece etc etc.
I don´t own any goyfs, which i notice now is a REAL problem, since the only way to combat other goyfs is really 2 for 1 ing myself, smiter (and praying), path or a big unanswered knight of the reliquary, although shaman, ajani and elspeth could be a indirect answer to it.
I upped the number of walkers and added both thrun maindeck. Which decreased the amount of creatures, but actually does not bother that much since ticking domri rade up is good by itself.
The question i have is very alike the question someone else posted. Do i keep the cobras? Do i take them out for voices?
Do you guys think the 2 thrun main deck is a good call? We´ve already got 3 domri, 4 smiter and walkers against UWR, but playing it main deck could work out well i think.
Also a thing that came up the other night, the decision of playing t2 domri over smiter or vice versa. in which cases do you play which one? Against UWR for example, what would you do?
A huge thanks to Argetlam and the guys at Hakai studios for this awesome banner
Smiter so you don't get Remanded, imo.
It's important to play around that card until you know they don't have it, or it doesn't matter. Especially on T2.
He also makes it impossible for them to play a Geist and is basically unanswered except for a Path.
Sig courtesy of DOLZero
[82/360] Custom Cube
Blog about the Custom Cube
3x Stomping ground
3x Temple Garden
2x rootbound craig
2x Sunpetal Grove
2x forest
2x plains
1x mountain
4x Vexing Devil
4x Loam Lion
4x Experiment one
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
4x Flinthoof Boar
4x Stormblood Berserker
4x Loxodon Smiter
4x Ghor-Clan Rampager
3x Path to Exile
3x Domri Rade
3x Lightning Helix
2x Molten Rain
2x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2x Melira, Sylvok Outcast
3x Torpor Orb
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
please give me some feedback via PM? i know loam lions could/should be Kird ape for mana consistency, i just like the lion more
Modern Junk
Modern aggro/combo elves
You'll find this more suited to the Gruul Zoo thread; It's essentially Gruul Zoo splashing white. The Naya Zoo builds are generally more midrange.
60 cards
4 Arid Mesa
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Marsh Flats
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Stirring Wildwood
2 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
1 Treetop Village
22 lands
4 Huntmaster of the Fells
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Thundermaw Hellkite
24 creatures
2 Domri Rade
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
14 other spells
3 Blood Moon
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Mana Leak
2 Torpor Orb
3 Voice of Resurgence
15 sideboard cards
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival