I don't understand why he (referring to Kibler's deck) always cuts 1 Path to Exile.
Such a powerful one.
I also don't understand the meaning of Ajani? Against which matchups do you board him in?
Because path is one of those cards where you can find yourself getting punished for ramping them, as well as it being a card you don't want to see multiples of against tron, scapeshift, UWR
I wonder why the Thundermaws were cut. I guess it is a bit high on the curve, but I kind of feel this deck doesn't pack enough punch now. Maybe I am just dead wrong and should play this version
I wonder why the Thundermaws were cut. I guess it is a bit high on the curve, but I kind of feel this deck doesn't pack enough punch now. Maybe I am just dead wrong and should play this version
I understand a lot of the changes he made to the list, and support most. The changes to the curve means he ideally wants to go 1-3-2 2, and having that many 2 drops allows him to keep many more dorkless hands. Are the numbers correct? Maybe. I feel like there is a lot of room in this archetype, as I personally had a fair amount of success running Hero of Bladehold in my 4 slot, and really enjoyed the "Answer or die" quality it had. I have a feeling he'll go back to one Thundermaw at some point. He's just testing, trying to find the right combination of cards in a midrangey list he feels comfortable with. The list will constantly shift and evolve until he's happy with it and runs it again at a big event or puts it on the back burner for awhile.
On Kibler's article at starcity he complains about taking out thundermaws. Its because Lingering Souls is not being used so frequently on top decks of the format, but is completely OK to still use it in the place of Elspeth or Linvala if u want a more aggressive build.
Ha, you should watch his videos Lantern. Anytime someone asks him that he types:
"I am not an imposter."
Yes, that's Kibler, and I'd heed his visual advice. Cutting Thundermaw doesn't seem like a bad call right now, and you can always SB more heavy duty threats if need be. Elspeth + anything is almost as good as a Thundermaw anyway. He'll have his time to shine again, just doesn't seem like now is that time.
I don't understand why he (referring to Kibler's deck) always cuts 1 Path to Exile.
Such a powerful one.
I also don't understand the meaning of Ajani? Against which matchups do you board him in?
Path is a fine cut when you can SB more specific removal, and when you're trying to run max creatures for Domri. My WUR Delver deck only runs 2 Path main, 1 side, and it's been fine. Not ideal against Pod, but against a lot of other decks it can range from mediocre to straight up dead.
As for Ajani, I think you should test the card out a bit. He's reasonable against Aggro as Helix + Fog, but if he sticks it's a huge beating. He competes against a lot of midrange decks very well, especially in board stalls. And if he resolves against control it's VERY hard for them to remove him. He's good. Lightning Helix is also good, but you might be overlooking how powerful his +1 can be in many situations. Keeping Pod, Colonnade, Delver, Emrakul (ha), Goyf, Ooze, DRS, etc. etc. tapped can be game winning.
Right, and thats why hes using 4 domri. My testing comes up witht he same results. Domri vs Control/tempo = you win. Hands down. They simply cant deal with the card giving you CA every turn, refuling their trade removal and once he pops you'll never lose.
The interaction is pretty good, don't get me wrong, but your opponent can see it coming from a mile away. Chances are, if they can't deal with the Knight anyway, the Lynx is just win-more at that point. It's not exactly the thing that Kibler's deck is looking to abuse, but it is powerful when it works out. I could see a smaller Naya deck putting it to better use though, maybe even a full-on landfall deck that curves out at Knight would be reasonable. Kibler's list is much more value oriented, and Steppe Lynx just isn't consistent enough for anything other than pure aggro. I didn't see the video though, what happened exactly?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MODERN RGB Jund BGR WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY RUGB Delver GURB
EDH UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR BBB Skithiryx Control BB
Sejri steppe. Not spelled right, on the iPhone. If I had to guess. Kiblar is prepping for the next gp. 3 voice, 4 domri, is alllllllll prep against control. Domri turn 3 wins the matchup 99% of the time. And looks like knight is back up to its old self!
Ah, Sejiri Steppe. Yes, I forgot about that card. Ignore my rant then. If you really want to protect your Knights, then Sejiri Steppe is definitely a nice one. The blowout potential is pretty high too, I think most people will have forgotten that little trick.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MODERN RGB Jund BGR WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY RUGB Delver GURB
EDH UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR BBB Skithiryx Control BB
He did a few changes. Just ran a test with it. I dig it alot! I just played against a really strong tempo deck that had a nasty nasty counter suite. But I still beat it, game 2 I just kept throwing down dudes til they stuck and got myself a sweet loxodon smiter. Next game I got out a domri turn 2 and from there drew 3 cards and killed a goyf. Thats a sound 3 mana investment if any...
He did a few changes. Just ran a test with it. I dig it alot! I just played against a really strong tempo deck that had a nasty nasty counter suite. But I still beat it, game 2 I just kept throwing down dudes til they stuck and got myself a sweet loxodon smiter. Next game I got out a domri turn 2 and from there drew 3 cards and killed a goyf. Thats a sound 3 mana investment if any...
What did you think of the bonfire in the side? I'm still not sold on it, also I have no idea what matches it comes in for... Also I was kind of surprised there was no Thrun's in the sideboard either.
What did you think of the bonfire in the side? I'm still not sold on it, also I have no idea what matches it comes in for... Also I was kind of surprised there was no Thrun's in the sideboard either.
Against Affinity and Melira Pod at 5 mana (no miracle) it's a one-sided wrath that also shocks them.
Against midrange decks a miracled copy means you get to swing in very profitably. Goyf can't just eat a Kird Ape with 3-5 damage on it. (And might even die)
I imagine that's how it plays out. That's how it plays out of the Jund SB's that use it.
As for Ajani, I think you should test the card out a bit. He's reasonable against Aggro as Helix + Fog, but if he sticks it's a huge beating. He competes against a lot of midrange decks very well, especially in board stalls. And if he resolves against control it's VERY hard for them to remove him. He's good. Lightning Helix is also good, but you might be overlooking how powerful his +1 can be in many situations. Keeping Pod, Colonnade, Delver, Emrakul (ha), Goyf, Ooze, DRS, etc. etc. tapped can be game winning.
Just to drive the point further.
Sticking Ajani + Domri against decks that can't profitably interact with them (ie the flavors of UWR) is pretty amazing. They can't keep a creature alive to block, and if they deal with your creatures, who cares, you have tons of gas and you're building up reach with Ajani.
I've been using him in my no-mana dork small naya zoo list SB for awhile. And when i pull him in (specifically against UWR) I love seeing him.
At his worst he's a 4 mana Lightning Helix that also absorbs a Bolt or an attack. When he absorbs a Bolt, that's one less bolt aimed at your creatures. If he takes an attack that means they left themselves open for a counter attack.
Right. Ajani is just more fuel for you. Think about it this way. Control is a cycle deck. They don't really draw, they cycle. If you land a domri and Ajani (even just 1) you drawing and playing an extra spell a turn. Free ca. Controls ca rate is 0 cards drawn and lost a turn (cycled) aggro is usually -1/3 a turn. With 2 walkers your basicky doing +1/2.
The side is odd... But kiblar knows what he's doing. He's openly said modern is his favorite format. He's peeping for a gp I beleive. His main is fine tuned against tempo control and midrange, the 3 "best decks". (Domri and voice for tempo and control, ooze deathlike for midrange also smiter). The question is how do you side? Something I need to go back and watch his videos for.
Edit: what's your mana dorkless list? I ask because I think the dorks are the biggest weakness of the deck. No good turn 2 play = sad kib
The side is odd... But kiblar knows what he's doing. He's openly said modern is his favorite format. He's peeping for a gp I beleive. His main is fine tuned against tempo control and midrange, the 3 "best decks". (Domri and voice for tempo and control, ooze deathlike for midrange also smiter). The question is how do you side? Something I need to go back and watch his videos for.
I know that Kibler knows what he is doing (after all he is a HoF :P) I was just curious as to why. I will probably do the same thing since I am going to the GP this weekend (in fact with his deck), and I have no idea how to use his SB.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern UBR Grixis UBR
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Ajani is very good against most creature decks and is a house in the midrange match ups.
XXXX
Modern
URTwinRU R.I.P.
EDH
WUGRoon of the Hidden RealmWUG
Because path is one of those cards where you can find yourself getting punished for ramping them, as well as it being a card you don't want to see multiples of against tron, scapeshift, UWR
Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
I wonder why the Thundermaws were cut. I guess it is a bit high on the curve, but I kind of feel this deck doesn't pack enough punch now. Maybe I am just dead wrong and should play this version
UBR Grixis UBR
I understand a lot of the changes he made to the list, and support most. The changes to the curve means he ideally wants to go 1-3-2 2, and having that many 2 drops allows him to keep many more dorkless hands. Are the numbers correct? Maybe. I feel like there is a lot of room in this archetype, as I personally had a fair amount of success running Hero of Bladehold in my 4 slot, and really enjoyed the "Answer or die" quality it had. I have a feeling he'll go back to one Thundermaw at some point. He's just testing, trying to find the right combination of cards in a midrangey list he feels comfortable with. The list will constantly shift and evolve until he's happy with it and runs it again at a big event or puts it on the back burner for awhile.
Ha, you should watch his videos Lantern. Anytime someone asks him that he types:
"I am not an imposter."
Yes, that's Kibler, and I'd heed his visual advice. Cutting Thundermaw doesn't seem like a bad call right now, and you can always SB more heavy duty threats if need be. Elspeth + anything is almost as good as a Thundermaw anyway. He'll have his time to shine again, just doesn't seem like now is that time.
Path is a fine cut when you can SB more specific removal, and when you're trying to run max creatures for Domri. My WUR Delver deck only runs 2 Path main, 1 side, and it's been fine. Not ideal against Pod, but against a lot of other decks it can range from mediocre to straight up dead.
As for Ajani, I think you should test the card out a bit. He's reasonable against Aggro as Helix + Fog, but if he sticks it's a huge beating. He competes against a lot of midrange decks very well, especially in board stalls. And if he resolves against control it's VERY hard for them to remove him. He's good. Lightning Helix is also good, but you might be overlooking how powerful his +1 can be in many situations. Keeping Pod, Colonnade, Delver, Emrakul (ha), Goyf, Ooze, DRS, etc. etc. tapped can be game winning.
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
http://www.twitch.tv/bmkibler
more specifically, he is streaming with a Naya Zoo type build. It is interesting.
The interaction is pretty good, don't get me wrong, but your opponent can see it coming from a mile away. Chances are, if they can't deal with the Knight anyway, the Lynx is just win-more at that point. It's not exactly the thing that Kibler's deck is looking to abuse, but it is powerful when it works out. I could see a smaller Naya deck putting it to better use though, maybe even a full-on landfall deck that curves out at Knight would be reasonable. Kibler's list is much more value oriented, and Steppe Lynx just isn't consistent enough for anything other than pure aggro. I didn't see the video though, what happened exactly?
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
1 Blood Crypt
2 Forest
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Marsh Flats
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
1 Treetop Village
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Voice of Resurgence
4 Domri Rade
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Path to Exile
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
He did a few changes. Just ran a test with it. I dig it alot! I just played against a really strong tempo deck that had a nasty nasty counter suite. But I still beat it, game 2 I just kept throwing down dudes til they stuck and got myself a sweet loxodon smiter. Next game I got out a domri turn 2 and from there drew 3 cards and killed a goyf. Thats a sound 3 mana investment if any...
What did you think of the bonfire in the side? I'm still not sold on it, also I have no idea what matches it comes in for... Also I was kind of surprised there was no Thrun's in the sideboard either.
UBR Grixis UBR
Against Affinity and Melira Pod at 5 mana (no miracle) it's a one-sided wrath that also shocks them.
Against midrange decks a miracled copy means you get to swing in very profitably. Goyf can't just eat a Kird Ape with 3-5 damage on it. (And might even die)
I imagine that's how it plays out. That's how it plays out of the Jund SB's that use it.
Just to drive the point further.
Sticking Ajani + Domri against decks that can't profitably interact with them (ie the flavors of UWR) is pretty amazing. They can't keep a creature alive to block, and if they deal with your creatures, who cares, you have tons of gas and you're building up reach with Ajani.
I've been using him in my no-mana dork small naya zoo list SB for awhile. And when i pull him in (specifically against UWR) I love seeing him.
At his worst he's a 4 mana Lightning Helix that also absorbs a Bolt or an attack. When he absorbs a Bolt, that's one less bolt aimed at your creatures. If he takes an attack that means they left themselves open for a counter attack.
Sig courtesy of DOLZero
[82/360] Custom Cube
Blog about the Custom Cube
The side is odd... But kiblar knows what he's doing. He's openly said modern is his favorite format. He's peeping for a gp I beleive. His main is fine tuned against tempo control and midrange, the 3 "best decks". (Domri and voice for tempo and control, ooze deathlike for midrange also smiter). The question is how do you side? Something I need to go back and watch his videos for.
Edit: what's your mana dorkless list? I ask because I think the dorks are the biggest weakness of the deck. No good turn 2 play = sad kib
I know that Kibler knows what he is doing (after all he is a HoF :P) I was just curious as to why. I will probably do the same thing since I am going to the GP this weekend (in fact with his deck), and I have no idea how to use his SB.
UBR Grixis UBR