Sadly I'm pretty much stuck to FNM since i'm in Arkansas. The decks at my store are infect, burn, a bogles deck, a few RWU control decks, an affinity and then just random things. Anything that you guys thing I should do to or possibly change? I know many aren't fans of Vault but I'd like to give it a shot at least. I'm not sole on the Stony Silence as I already have some decent artifact hate in the way of Qasali Pridemage and fracturing Gust. But I have no idea what to substitute.
Sadly I'm pretty much stuck to FNM since i'm in Arkansas. The decks at my store are infect, burn, a bogles deck, a few RWU control decks, an affinity and then just random things. Anything that you guys thing I should do to or possibly change? I know many aren't fans of Vault but I'd like to give it a shot at least. I'm not sole on the Stony Silence as I already have some decent artifact hate in the way of Qasali Pridemage and fracturing Gust. But I have no idea what to substitute.
The list looks very solid, might net-deck it. I'd have more commentary as to what I'd change if you could indicate which decks at your local meta are the hardest for you right now. Does anything feel like a tough match-up or even just 50/50 when you think it could be a little better?
If control is hard go for Thrun, The last Troll. They can remove him with ***, but he's a beating and forcing them to board wipe to remove a single card is great. Other choices for that match up are Lili (probably hard on the mana) and Planswalkers.
For Boggles more main decked Qasali and sideboarded Edicts can help. On the play I'd always bring in Zealous Persecution, it's lead to a few blow-outs before but your mileage may vary.
I do not know the Infect match-up or what's good against it honestly, so I'll abstain from that one other than that sacrifice effects seem reasonable.
Burn looks like it should be fairly easy. The only thing to help it would be a 4th Finks and switching TS to IOK, but I wouldn't do that.
So without knowing which decks are hard for you but trying to prepare for your meta I'd try -2 Stony from the side for +1 Thrun and +1 Qasali or Devouring Flesh.
Stony Silence is so good against Affinity, though. Fracturing Gust is great too but doesn't come down until Turn 4 off a dork; 3 at the absolute earliest and then you have 2 or 3 dorks. Stony Silence comes down on Turn 2. I've only dropped it against Affinity once but he could do basically nothing. It shuts off half of their mana sources (Darksteel Citadel, Springleaf Drum, Mox Opal), Steel Overseer and Arcbound Ravager, and Cranial Plating can't be equipped if it isn't already. At this point you're just worried about nuts draws with multiple Etched Champions or a bunch of Signal Pests. I remember Wilson saying Affinity was rough somewhere but between MD Decay for Plating, Souls, and SB hate (Zealous Persecution also seems good but I dunno) I think it's alright.
The Burn matchup is harder than it looks. I've lost both times I've played against it. If you stumble at all they can punish it hard. If you don't draw and cast Finks and Rhino, you can have a rough time. Even then you can get Skullcracked and still lose. Searing Blood/Blaze is a house on our dorks and Pridemage, and even Voice since we usually then have to chump with the token it makes. It can be a race to cast a Rhino or two and stabilize, but they try their hardest to stop you from doing that. I'm looking at picking up a few Kor Firewalkers since I don't want to shell out for Leyline of Sanctity.
I played against Infect only once but it seems like having disruption and removal is important against them since chumping doesn't always work against Blighted Agent and Distortion Strike. Thoughtseize is obviously amazing but I dunno about Duress. I am unsure if bringing Zealous Persecution in is correct but I think it is. It's removal that is "countered" by any pump spell but it makes them use it on your turn. It also gets through Spellskite. It's just super bad against Pendelhaven. If you are getting sac effects for Bogles those seem alright but some amount of the time they are going to have a Hierarch or even Dryad Arbor lying around. Or spellskite but then removal isn't working anyways.
I think Celestial Flare might be the best sac effect against Infect and Bogles since from what I've seen they rarely are attacking with multiple creatures. However it becomes easier to play around once they know you run it. Though if they do "chump attack" you may be able to block and kill the thing you don't want them to sac, then play Flare after damage to force them to sac the other. Of course that assumes you aren't just dead to the unblocked one.
I wish I could fit in more removal and/or Thoughtseize but the deck is pretty clumped. I'm still considering Doran the Siege Tower instead of Anafenza because a 5/5 can kill anything really.
I think Batterskull is too slow for this kind of build, conservative Abzan List with Lilly is more midrange and more grindy. This is more a Aggro-type of Deck...i don't realy see against which matchup you want Batterskull for ?
Turn 4 Batterskull is a big play that can win you a game versus burn. I wouldn't want more than one though.
As far as KotR goes I think it is a meta call. Lots of junk/discard and control means smiter will be better. Otherwise KotR is a fine choice. With 8-9 fetches normally seeing play she can get quite big. Also if you go for tec edges in your list she can help tutor the exact lands you need.
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No idea because my favorite decks keep getting banned or having the rules changed against them
Hey guys, really like the look of these lists, very cool. I was just wondering how 'easy' it would be to eventually convert one of these lists to full Junk, after slowly making the money for those damn Goyfs and Liliana's?
I think Batterskull is playable in this deck as a 1 of. Maybe sideboard instead of main, but I could see it either ways. Interacts strongly with BoP and Lingering Souls.
Thoughts on Liliana of the Veil in the sideboard? Assuming the mana can support her, of course. She's good again combo, control, Boggles, and traditional BGx. I think she's something to consider.
I'm aware we don't need Lili to make BGx a good match-up, but BGx is a large part of the meta and something in the sideboard that helps game 2 look better is still worth it IMO. Specifically because Lili is such a house in so many matches and she's not a "waste" of sideboard slots for an already good match.
I'm also wondering about discard in the main. I've been playing 3 Decay and 3 Path, and I'm unsure on the # of Thoughtseize needed. I'm considering playing 4 and having those 10 cards as my interaction (+2 Qasali I suppose), and I'm also thinking of playing no discard in the main deck and siding the 3 Lili and some number of other discard. Thoughts on that?
@Random_Dude: I was dicking around against UR twin with my own list before as well. I had 3 Decay 3 Path main and sometimes I got there sometimes I didn't. Post board felt good though.
And I'll have to test Lili vs Duress. Honestly, part of my draw of Lili is help in the Boggles match-up as well as combo and potentially control. She's so versatile I really want to test her out.
Double mana black just for an out vs Bogles seems like a bad idea.
If you want to use a planeswalker to beat control, you're better off using a you-gain-advantage planeswalker (like Ajani, Mentor of Heroes) rather than a opponent-loses-advantage planeswalker (Liliana of the Veil). Compare the value of the card you draw off Ajani vs the card that the opponent discards to Liliana. Our cards have so much value, that it is immensely rare for a control or combo deck to lose more value to Liliana than we gain from Ajani.
I think I would keep at least 2 prideMages in the deck. Especially with the meta you described. They handle many problem cards like twin, blood moon, wild defiance, all of affinity and boggles.
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No idea because my favorite decks keep getting banned or having the rules changed against them
Hi everyone! I am the creator of the deck and just saw there was a forum here.
I played pod for two years. The day pod got banned, I called up my buddy who is the best player I know, and he said one sentence that would change my MTG life; "Wilt leaf liege pumps siege rhino..."
When that sentence was said, we got to work and spent days tweaking and tuning the list and we found out it was the real deal!! We both posted our own ways to get the deck publicised (mine was a reddit post his was an article on the deck), and the people who tested it loved it but some were skeptical. Jacob Wilson then top 8ed a pro tour, and the deck jumped in value.
I have played over 100 competitive matches in playtesting and tournaments with my list, and I have lost 5 of them total.I played against a plethora of decks extensively, all with pilots that are very good with their deck (I playtest against people who write MTG articles, have made the pro tour multiple times,are IQ winners, and\or grand prix grinders). I wanted to share my list: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/14-02-15-POf-podless-pod/
the main difference is the lack of mana dorks. Essentially, the way the exact decklist is set, there are no dead topdecks. Dorks lead you to keep sketchy hands and are terible topdecks. In addition, I did test the dorks and found there was very little I needed to do turn 1. Either seize or just fetch for a tapped shock. I dont care about the turn 1 plays by my opponents as I either get rid of it immediately like against infect, or its low impact. A turn 2 anything isnt needed. This curves very well as well.
Instead of mana dorks, I run more disruption. This particular disruption lategame isnt dead and is super effective early game. Sin collectors 99 percent of the time hit something and at worst is a body. Sculler is insane: late game, hes a body. He forces opponents to stretch removal thin by removing that over a threat. In addition, I have gotten many people in a 2 for 1 by them killing sculler with the trigger on the stack or even playing something in response to force them to do uncomfortable things. Against the decks without removal its killer. Against the ones with, you take the most profitable removal spell for them or most of the time their only impact spell or removal spell.
I never didn't want a liege or smiter, so he becomes a 4 of. In addition, the sideboard is meant so you can board against as many decks as possible. It works very well as there are few decks I have nothing to sideboard. Everything else should be explanatory. I have found this list is very good against literally anything. The only match-up on paper that's bad is tron, and A. I never have lost a game against it due to the disruption suite, and B. its terribly positioned anyway so its not like it will be seen much.
Overall, I recommend giving this decklist a try. I think it will amount very well for you, and if there are any questions, let me know :). I was going to write an extensive primer, but as there is already a thread, I guess thats not needed. However, if you are interested in matchup guides, hand walkthroughs, tips and tricks, reasoning of all of my choices, and\or a board guide (what was going to be in my primer) let me know!
Mindcensor don't have to be BAD but I think that you will turn off your own fetches so maybe when I will have it in my hand,play it when I will have 3-4 feches fetched and 1-2 mana creatures... But that's just my point of view,maybe somebody could disagree with me...
Mindcensor says target opponent.
If you want to deal with infect, boggles etc, engineered explosives has been amazing. Spellskite isnt needed in my experience. The life is to much.
Thanks for writing on here! Would you mind giving us match up guides and how you would board against other decks? Thanks!
Of course! It will take a while to work on, but I will write it this weekend. I also playtest people from all over the world on skype. If any of you want to talk about the deck and test let me know! Put your skype name and we can make a big group of players of the same deck
I will say none of the losses were due to the deck choices; all my match losses were either mana flood, screw, or my opponents topdecking their one out to the situation they were in with one topdeck left. After extensive testing, it rarely happens. Varience is a part of magic and my few match losses have been variance no bad match-up yet.
I love this deck so much, and if you're really one of the creators, thank you. I played traditional GBw Junk for awhile, and Little Kid is my new favorite deck in all magic.
I really don't know if Sin Collector is strong enough. He seems really meh to me. I'll probably try testing him. I also think you want Lingering Souls in the main deck.
Thank you! I love the deck to and I am really one of the creators. I tried souls, but I didn't like it main. It was sea in enough m atchups to justify a board slot.
Dont knock sin collector untill you try it. Its good against literally almost everything. It has been insane at stopping other souls , against control, even combo.
I did, and the plansewalkers didn't do anything for me. The best one was lili, but we are an aggro deck and it made the deck way slower and have worse late game topdecks. The way my list is, the only lategame bad topdecks are th oughtseizes. Basically, GBx minus the nonsense topdecks and all efficiency.
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4 Noble Hierarch
3 Birds of Paradise
3 Voice of Resurgence
1 Qasali Pridemage
4 Loxodon Smiter
3 Kitchen Finks
4 Siege Rhino
3 Wilt-Leaf Liege
Instants - 6
3 Path to Exile
3 Abrupt Decay
Sorcery - 6
2 Thoughtseize
4 Lingering Souls
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Forest
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
4 Windswept Heath
1 Vault of the Archangel
4 Razorverge Thicket
2 Gavony Township
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Path to Exile
2 Thoughtseize
2 Choke
2 Fracturing Gust
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Stony Silence
3 Zealous Persecution
Sadly I'm pretty much stuck to FNM since i'm in Arkansas. The decks at my store are infect, burn, a bogles deck, a few RWU control decks, an affinity and then just random things. Anything that you guys thing I should do to or possibly change? I know many aren't fans of Vault but I'd like to give it a shot at least. I'm not sole on the Stony Silence as I already have some decent artifact hate in the way of Qasali Pridemage and fracturing Gust. But I have no idea what to substitute.
The list looks very solid, might net-deck it. I'd have more commentary as to what I'd change if you could indicate which decks at your local meta are the hardest for you right now. Does anything feel like a tough match-up or even just 50/50 when you think it could be a little better?
If control is hard go for Thrun, The last Troll. They can remove him with ***, but he's a beating and forcing them to board wipe to remove a single card is great. Other choices for that match up are Lili (probably hard on the mana) and Planswalkers.
For Boggles more main decked Qasali and sideboarded Edicts can help. On the play I'd always bring in Zealous Persecution, it's lead to a few blow-outs before but your mileage may vary.
I do not know the Infect match-up or what's good against it honestly, so I'll abstain from that one other than that sacrifice effects seem reasonable.
Burn looks like it should be fairly easy. The only thing to help it would be a 4th Finks and switching TS to IOK, but I wouldn't do that.
So without knowing which decks are hard for you but trying to prepare for your meta I'd try -2 Stony from the side for +1 Thrun and +1 Qasali or Devouring Flesh.
Modern - GB Elves, UW Ojutai Control
Legacy - BWG Junk Stoneblade
Gay and Proud
#MakeAmericaGreatAgain
The Burn matchup is harder than it looks. I've lost both times I've played against it. If you stumble at all they can punish it hard. If you don't draw and cast Finks and Rhino, you can have a rough time. Even then you can get Skullcracked and still lose. Searing Blood/Blaze is a house on our dorks and Pridemage, and even Voice since we usually then have to chump with the token it makes. It can be a race to cast a Rhino or two and stabilize, but they try their hardest to stop you from doing that. I'm looking at picking up a few Kor Firewalkers since I don't want to shell out for Leyline of Sanctity.
I played against Infect only once but it seems like having disruption and removal is important against them since chumping doesn't always work against Blighted Agent and Distortion Strike. Thoughtseize is obviously amazing but I dunno about Duress. I am unsure if bringing Zealous Persecution in is correct but I think it is. It's removal that is "countered" by any pump spell but it makes them use it on your turn. It also gets through Spellskite. It's just super bad against Pendelhaven. If you are getting sac effects for Bogles those seem alright but some amount of the time they are going to have a Hierarch or even Dryad Arbor lying around. Or spellskite but then removal isn't working anyways.
I think Celestial Flare might be the best sac effect against Infect and Bogles since from what I've seen they rarely are attacking with multiple creatures. However it becomes easier to play around once they know you run it. Though if they do "chump attack" you may be able to block and kill the thing you don't want them to sac, then play Flare after damage to force them to sac the other. Of course that assumes you aren't just dead to the unblocked one.
2x Forest
2x Gavony Township
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Plains
3x Razorverge Thicket
1x Swamp
2x Temple Garden
1x Vault of the Archangel
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Windswept Heath
1x Woodland Cemetery
2x Anafenza the Foremost
3x Kitchen Finks
3x Loxodon Smiter
4x Noble Hierarch
2x Qasali Pridemage
4x Siege Rhino
3x Voice of Resurgence
3x Wilt-Leaf Liege
2x Thoughtseize
4x Path to Exile
I wish I could fit in more removal and/or Thoughtseize but the deck is pretty clumped. I'm still considering Doran the Siege Tower instead of Anafenza because a 5/5 can kill anything really.
Turn 4 Batterskull is a big play that can win you a game versus burn. I wouldn't want more than one though.
As far as KotR goes I think it is a meta call. Lots of junk/discard and control means smiter will be better. Otherwise KotR is a fine choice. With 8-9 fetches normally seeing play she can get quite big. Also if you go for tec edges in your list she can help tutor the exact lands you need.
I for one am bringing KOTRs and Tec Edges to SCGBalt for the modern open this weekend. Knight has done very well for me.
Thoughts on Liliana of the Veil in the sideboard? Assuming the mana can support her, of course. She's good again combo, control, Boggles, and traditional BGx. I think she's something to consider.
Modern - GB Elves, UW Ojutai Control
Legacy - BWG Junk Stoneblade
Gay and Proud
#MakeAmericaGreatAgain
I'm also wondering about discard in the main. I've been playing 3 Decay and 3 Path, and I'm unsure on the # of Thoughtseize needed. I'm considering playing 4 and having those 10 cards as my interaction (+2 Qasali I suppose), and I'm also thinking of playing no discard in the main deck and siding the 3 Lili and some number of other discard. Thoughts on that?
Modern - GB Elves, UW Ojutai Control
Legacy - BWG Junk Stoneblade
Gay and Proud
#MakeAmericaGreatAgain
And I'll have to test Lili vs Duress. Honestly, part of my draw of Lili is help in the Boggles match-up as well as combo and potentially control. She's so versatile I really want to test her out.
Modern - GB Elves, UW Ojutai Control
Legacy - BWG Junk Stoneblade
Gay and Proud
#MakeAmericaGreatAgain
If you want to use a planeswalker to beat control, you're better off using a you-gain-advantage planeswalker (like Ajani, Mentor of Heroes) rather than a opponent-loses-advantage planeswalker (Liliana of the Veil). Compare the value of the card you draw off Ajani vs the card that the opponent discards to Liliana. Our cards have so much value, that it is immensely rare for a control or combo deck to lose more value to Liliana than we gain from Ajani.
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
I played pod for two years. The day pod got banned, I called up my buddy who is the best player I know, and he said one sentence that would change my MTG life; "Wilt leaf liege pumps siege rhino..."
When that sentence was said, we got to work and spent days tweaking and tuning the list and we found out it was the real deal!! We both posted our own ways to get the deck publicised (mine was a reddit post his was an article on the deck), and the people who tested it loved it but some were skeptical. Jacob Wilson then top 8ed a pro tour, and the deck jumped in value.
I have played over 100 competitive matches in playtesting and tournaments with my list, and I have lost 5 of them total.I played against a plethora of decks extensively, all with pilots that are very good with their deck (I playtest against people who write MTG articles, have made the pro tour multiple times,are IQ winners, and\or grand prix grinders). I wanted to share my list:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/14-02-15-POf-podless-pod/
the main difference is the lack of mana dorks. Essentially, the way the exact decklist is set, there are no dead topdecks. Dorks lead you to keep sketchy hands and are terible topdecks. In addition, I did test the dorks and found there was very little I needed to do turn 1. Either seize or just fetch for a tapped shock. I dont care about the turn 1 plays by my opponents as I either get rid of it immediately like against infect, or its low impact. A turn 2 anything isnt needed. This curves very well as well.
Instead of mana dorks, I run more disruption. This particular disruption lategame isnt dead and is super effective early game. Sin collectors 99 percent of the time hit something and at worst is a body. Sculler is insane: late game, hes a body. He forces opponents to stretch removal thin by removing that over a threat. In addition, I have gotten many people in a 2 for 1 by them killing sculler with the trigger on the stack or even playing something in response to force them to do uncomfortable things. Against the decks without removal its killer. Against the ones with, you take the most profitable removal spell for them or most of the time their only impact spell or removal spell.
I never didn't want a liege or smiter, so he becomes a 4 of. In addition, the sideboard is meant so you can board against as many decks as possible. It works very well as there are few decks I have nothing to sideboard. Everything else should be explanatory. I have found this list is very good against literally anything. The only match-up on paper that's bad is tron, and A. I never have lost a game against it due to the disruption suite, and B. its terribly positioned anyway so its not like it will be seen much.
Overall, I recommend giving this decklist a try. I think it will amount very well for you, and if there are any questions, let me know :). I was going to write an extensive primer, but as there is already a thread, I guess thats not needed. However, if you are interested in matchup guides, hand walkthroughs, tips and tricks, reasoning of all of my choices, and\or a board guide (what was going to be in my primer) let me know!
Mindcensor don't have to be BAD but I think that you will turn off your own fetches so maybe when I will have it in my hand,play it when I will have 3-4 feches fetched and 1-2 mana creatures... But that's just my point of view,maybe somebody could disagree with me...
Mindcensor says target opponent.
If you want to deal with infect, boggles etc, engineered explosives has been amazing. Spellskite isnt needed in my experience. The life is to much.
Of course! It will take a while to work on, but I will write it this weekend. I also playtest people from all over the world on skype. If any of you want to talk about the deck and test let me know! Put your skype name and we can make a big group of players of the same deck
I will say none of the losses were due to the deck choices; all my match losses were either mana flood, screw, or my opponents topdecking their one out to the situation they were in with one topdeck left. After extensive testing, it rarely happens. Varience is a part of magic and my few match losses have been variance no bad match-up yet.
I love this deck so much, and if you're really one of the creators, thank you. I played traditional GBw Junk for awhile, and Little Kid is my new favorite deck in all magic.
I really don't know if Sin Collector is strong enough. He seems really meh to me. I'll probably try testing him. I also think you want Lingering Souls in the main deck.
Have you tested Lili or any other planeswalkers?
Modern - GB Elves, UW Ojutai Control
Legacy - BWG Junk Stoneblade
Gay and Proud
#MakeAmericaGreatAgain
Dont knock sin collector untill you try it. Its good against literally almost everything. It has been insane at stopping other souls , against control, even combo.
I did, and the plansewalkers didn't do anything for me. The best one was lili, but we are an aggro deck and it made the deck way slower and have worse late game topdecks. The way my list is, the only lategame bad topdecks are th oughtseizes. Basically, GBx minus the nonsense topdecks and all efficiency.