Hey fellow little younglings! You may remember me as I posted a bit back about my list and my experiences of creating the archtype. Well, I got the honor recently of being able to test with of Tyler Hill via skype , we have been for two days now and we are planning on jamming more games(for those who don't know him, he was the top infect player at PTFRF at 9-1 missing top 8 due to draft records) and he is the best player I have faced. He made some great suggestions with the deck and I followed them and man the deck has been good. I am at 200 matches now and I have over 90 percent win rate. I wanted to share my list and show changes from my other list. http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/14-02-15-POf-podless-pod/
So the changes since last time have been, -1 Gavony -1 Thicket +2 Stirring Wildwood , -2 Sin Collector main -1 Side, +2 Inquisition main +1 Zealous Persecution Side, - 2 Thrun -2 Reclamation Sage sideboard stuff for +2 Nature's Claim and +2 Stony Silence. This has been fantastic and if you have any questions about my list notify me. I would love to contribute here. I urge you to try my list it shouldnt dissapoint you. Report back to me on your testing if you do!
- AJ
@Emracool: Thanks for doing additional testing! I have a few questions/comments:
1) What deck/decks are you testing against? I've done 8Rack, RUG Delver w/Disrupting Shoal, and I'm going to test Ad Nauseam and UR Twin tonight.
2) Doesn't 8 4 drops feel pretty clunky without mana dorks? I find in games where I need to race, even 7 can be rough with Birds to help power them out.
3) I knew we wanted manlands, heh.
1. Affinity, zoo, twin, GBx, tron, amulet, burn, UWR, UWR delver, UR delver, scapeshift, infect, boggles, BW tokens, fae, pretty much every tier 1-2 deck besides living end and if you consider it a deck through the breach valakut.
2.It hasnt been clunky at all. There is a ***** ton of disruption and I outclass the creatures they have early game in terms of efficiency. This makes literally no bad matchups for me the only theoretical one is tron and even then its doable for me at least as I played tron for about a year so I know how to beat it. In addition, stony silence helps out I have yet to lose a game against tron even with the older build. The only one I see being problematic is living end which is so small in the competitive metagame it shouldnt be to worried about. If we have only a singular bad matchup im ok with that. Even then with scooze and souls in the board and enough disruption to force a cascade spell in a good amount of time through disruption due to the ubder consistent clock the deck has
3.I resisted tap lands for a long time, but Tyler convinced me 2 was a good spot to be in as its a good turn 1 play and a perfect late game card .
I also want to add all of my testing is super valid as I playtest as said in my first post only against qualified individuals to me who at the very least have near mastered the deck they own.
I see your concerned about blood moon. I have yet to lose to it its easy to play around to me and to rid of it if its a problem.
Nice! Glad your testing against lots of decks. Like I said, I'm doing it at my own pace, which I think is good for us both to be doing it. Trying different lists and different tactics, as well as just jamming more games in general, helps understand the deck and it's matches better.
I'll take your word that 8 4 drops isn't clunky. Like I said, even with 4 Birds and just as solid of an early game, I find they can force some awkward hands/mulls.
As for Blood Moon, if you don't have fetches or basics in your opener it can be rough to deal with, specifically on the draw. This is why I prefer a more conservative mana base for the deck.
just decay in response or take it from the hand or play around it its not that hard. My manabase has been perfect for me.
Believe me it isnt. It hasnt been and it wont be. Its perfect mid and late game and as I said my aggro matchup is killer due to consistent disruption a clock and a ton of lifegain.
I agree , but I feel my take on the deck is only seeing testing by me I encourage at least trying it so I dont feel like its me against the world lol. Theres a reason why I have had to test SO MUCH to get an idea of what to change
I'm half-way through testing against Ad Nauseam. It's about even or we're favored on the play in game 1, I've got to test us being on the draw. Qasali is god-tier in this match.
I do wish I had Emracool's Sculler's for this though, lol.
If we are running dorks I think Dragonlord Dromoka needs to be a consideration for the sideboard. This is controls worst nightmare, and if you can get a swing in, I think it just beats scapeshift.
Also, is this deck developing into 2 different approachs? Speed vs disruption? If it is, please let me know some results and I will update the primer.
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No idea because my favorite decks keep getting banned or having the rules changed against them
Brian thank you! I am not a fan. I'm rarely attacking alone so exalted is useless, and I hardly ever don't want to see voice or Finks. Liege is consistently wanting to be seen. I have not lost a game with it on the table. The relevant mode is the destroy, and this list is already disruptive enough. This is known to me or as the mana dorks approach, but as the disruption approach all ready. I also don't feel a planes walker is needed. Believe me, not drawing liege you still win plenty of games but I win turn 5 consistently with every liege. The sideboard is in the description, but it's 3 Engineered Explosives 2 Stony Silence 1 Zealous Persecution 2 Nature's claim, 4 Lingering Souls, 3 scooze. I would suggest playtesting with my specific list before changes then if after the tournament if you see a problem try and fix it as with the new list I'm seeing none. Totally open to being wrong though just make sure you can explain why and write a tournament report!
Complex, it seems so. I would be more then willing to write an extensive matchup analysis tonite with my list if anyone is interested.
Random, essentially there are two ways to go, I have found disruption is more key to beating combo efficiently and making aggro a bye instead of just racing them. This still has the blazing speed you want in my experience, but it's a tad slower in exchange for literally EVERYTHING is a topdecked threat and it has massive consistency due to its plethora of pressure and disruption and it's good early, mid and late game.
oh god so sorry! The system crashed on my computer and sent it 4 times when it said it didnt. I deleted the extras of the same sentences. Also, ad nauseam with me has been awesome as a matchup due to scullers and haand disruption and decays. Post board STONY SILENCE. I cant stress that enough. It relies heavily on pentad prism and lotus bloom when thats gone it becomes to slow to beat us with our hand disruption
IMO Twin is 50/50 with this deck. That said I play 4 Decay main which helps. I've yet to be out tempoed by them, or any other deck really. Bird into Smiter/Finks/Souls is really hard for most decks to keep up with.
As for Collected Company, it's really good. I think putting 2 in seems good, maybe up to 4 total between main and side. The consistency it adds is just too damn much to ignore it. Getting things like Smiter, Finks, Voice, ect. Might be better than Lingering Souls since it misses souls, just throwing the idea out there.
Beyond consistence it adds a card advantage too. It kind of reminds me of Advent of the Wurm which was an amazing end of turn play back in standard. @Emracool it can also flash in skullers and surprise trash an opponents hand. Only wish we had a way to stack the top of our deck lol.
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No idea because my favorite decks keep getting banned or having the rules changed against them
I honestly think the card is really what we need. Against Twin we hold up removal, they play nothing that needs an answer, we EOT get massive value. The more I think of it, the better it seems. I'm gonna test it ASAP.
I talked to tyler about it. He says its a great idea in theory and a powerful card, but the deck would have to change to more under 3 drops if it wanted to go off consistently, making it a new deck. I dont like it in the mana dork version because you have uber potential to whiff. And with my disruption esque version, my four drops are to usefull and Tyler stated the only thing to cut is four drops. He agreed it wasnt worth cutting any four drops for it besides MAYBE a one of liege, but even then liege is insane. I wont be playing the card in this specific deck, but I have a ton of ideas for it as a card like remaking pod esque lists via congregation of dawn etc, but im going to stick with what I have for now. If you want to brew with it I would, but know the deck needs a rehaul.
I am thinking making it more like melira pod if you want to make it more for the card. Finks, smiter , voice, E wit basically value town backup but toolbox primary with congrgation of dawn for either good stuff or the melira combo with dorks to go off consistently at a good rate and have rhinos. And even if you want to get frisky chord of calling.
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http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/14-02-15-POf-podless-pod/
So the changes since last time have been, -1 Gavony -1 Thicket +2 Stirring Wildwood , -2 Sin Collector main -1 Side, +2 Inquisition main +1 Zealous Persecution Side, - 2 Thrun -2 Reclamation Sage sideboard stuff for +2 Nature's Claim and +2 Stony Silence. This has been fantastic and if you have any questions about my list notify me. I would love to contribute here. I urge you to try my list it shouldnt dissapoint you. Report back to me on your testing if you do!
- AJ
1) What deck/decks are you testing against? I've done 8Rack, RUG Delver w/Disrupting Shoal, and I'm going to test Ad Nauseam and UR Twin tonight.
2) Doesn't 8 4 drops feel pretty clunky without mana dorks? I find in games where I need to race, even 7 can be rough with Birds to help power them out.
3) I knew we wanted manlands, heh.
Modern - GB Elves, UW Ojutai Control
Legacy - BWG Junk Stoneblade
Gay and Proud
#MakeAmericaGreatAgain
2.It hasnt been clunky at all. There is a ***** ton of disruption and I outclass the creatures they have early game in terms of efficiency. This makes literally no bad matchups for me the only theoretical one is tron and even then its doable for me at least as I played tron for about a year so I know how to beat it. In addition, stony silence helps out I have yet to lose a game against tron even with the older build. The only one I see being problematic is living end which is so small in the competitive metagame it shouldnt be to worried about. If we have only a singular bad matchup im ok with that. Even then with scooze and souls in the board and enough disruption to force a cascade spell in a good amount of time through disruption due to the ubder consistent clock the deck has
3.I resisted tap lands for a long time, but Tyler convinced me 2 was a good spot to be in as its a good turn 1 play and a perfect late game card .
I also want to add all of my testing is super valid as I playtest as said in my first post only against qualified individuals to me who at the very least have near mastered the deck they own.
I see your concerned about blood moon. I have yet to lose to it its easy to play around to me and to rid of it if its a problem.
I'll take your word that 8 4 drops isn't clunky. Like I said, even with 4 Birds and just as solid of an early game, I find they can force some awkward hands/mulls.
As for Blood Moon, if you don't have fetches or basics in your opener it can be rough to deal with, specifically on the draw. This is why I prefer a more conservative mana base for the deck.
Modern - GB Elves, UW Ojutai Control
Legacy - BWG Junk Stoneblade
Gay and Proud
#MakeAmericaGreatAgain
Believe me it isnt. It hasnt been and it wont be. Its perfect mid and late game and as I said my aggro matchup is killer due to consistent disruption a clock and a ton of lifegain.
I agree , but I feel my take on the deck is only seeing testing by me I encourage at least trying it so I dont feel like its me against the world lol. Theres a reason why I have had to test SO MUCH to get an idea of what to change
I do wish I had Emracool's Sculler's for this though, lol.
Modern - GB Elves, UW Ojutai Control
Legacy - BWG Junk Stoneblade
Gay and Proud
#MakeAmericaGreatAgain
Also, is this deck developing into 2 different approachs? Speed vs disruption? If it is, please let me know some results and I will update the primer.
Complex, it seems so. I would be more then willing to write an extensive matchup analysis tonite with my list if anyone is interested.
Random, essentially there are two ways to go, I have found disruption is more key to beating combo efficiently and making aggro a bye instead of just racing them. This still has the blazing speed you want in my experience, but it's a tad slower in exchange for literally EVERYTHING is a topdecked threat and it has massive consistency due to its plethora of pressure and disruption and it's good early, mid and late game.
decks playing:
none
As for Collected Company, it's really good. I think putting 2 in seems good, maybe up to 4 total between main and side. The consistency it adds is just too damn much to ignore it. Getting things like Smiter, Finks, Voice, ect. Might be better than Lingering Souls since it misses souls, just throwing the idea out there.
Modern - GB Elves, UW Ojutai Control
Legacy - BWG Junk Stoneblade
Gay and Proud
#MakeAmericaGreatAgain
I honestly think the card is really what we need. Against Twin we hold up removal, they play nothing that needs an answer, we EOT get massive value. The more I think of it, the better it seems. I'm gonna test it ASAP.
Modern - GB Elves, UW Ojutai Control
Legacy - BWG Junk Stoneblade
Gay and Proud
#MakeAmericaGreatAgain
I am thinking making it more like melira pod if you want to make it more for the card. Finks, smiter , voice, E wit basically value town backup but toolbox primary with congrgation of dawn for either good stuff or the melira combo with dorks to go off consistently at a good rate and have rhinos. And even if you want to get frisky chord of calling.