I thought 14 would be too low for Deprive as well, but I'm creeping up on 100 matches with the card, and it hasn't come up once. At this point it's doubtful it will.
I'd guess the probability of Caverns versus Islands mattering for Deprive is something in the ballpark of 5% of cases where you want to cast before turn 6. Since Deprive is a card in your SB and you're usually being proactive with your mana until about turn 5, it will be a rare case (and I'd expect it to have come up at most twice in 100 games).
Still, there is a clear cost to the reliability of Deprive. Whether this small loss of reliability is more or less important than cutting through countermagic is a judgment call that is likely very metagame dependent.
Note that this is a back-of-the-envelope sort of guess, not a rigorously analyzed one. Use at your peril.
is it worth messing with people's lands with Tideshaper Mystic as well as give spreading seas 5-8 in a pinch?
Considering that the card has been around since Lorwyn, probably not. Other than turning on Islandwalk (at the expense of not being able to attack with it!), it's not going to be useful in terms of messing with opposing colors. You can't use it on their turn, and if you use it on your own turn, they can just play their spell in response. Sure, I can think of a few niche situations where it would work, but there are a ton more where it's going to be a plain old Merfolk of the Pearl Trident.
I know in the past, people were using Sea's Claim as the 5th-8th Seas. That seems to have fallen out of favor though.
Running 8-Seas isn't bad if your meta is full of Tron and Jund, where it can both enable Islandwalk and severely restrict access to the mana they want.
After experimenting around a bit with the Architect/Ballista build (replacing Harbinger and Reejerey in a 32-creature setup), I can say the following:
(a) The synergy between Grand Architect and Master of Waves is real. Getting an extra token and having them all be 3/2 is a big deal.
(b) A Ballista fueled by Architect is extremely powerful against many opponents. Ballista also gives us a way to use a bit more mana in the midgame. Also, living the dream of going Architect into Master of Waves into Ballista is incredible.
(c) The deck is still a drop slower than before.
(d) Ballista without Architect is not especially impressive.
(e) I'm definitely missing out on some of the synergy of Trickster with Reejerey, but I'm not certain it would have made a difference so far.
So yeah, the Ballista build is definitely less consistent and aggressive, but it has seriously improved mid-game power and randomly gets massive upside from the right Architect draws. I'm not convinced one is better than the other. YMMV.
That said, I took a break from Architect/Ballista version to play "regular" version today.
4 tournaments at the same time, Standard, Modern and 2 Drafts.
I took the relevant format, 4 Spell Pierces and went to battle.
R1 vs Skred Red
Spell Pierce on Mind Stone, Adept and Spell Pierce on Chandra, Waves...
Game 2 opponent played 2 Angers into Dragon. My naked Waves could not race it in time.
Game 3 first Waves fell to Dismember, second and third did not.
Love playing against this deck, always fun until the Master arrives.
R2 vs UR Pyromancer
Won game 1 with Waves (who knew?...), lost game 2 by being stuck on Island, Mutavault the whole game while Vial took Abrade on the chin. Had 3 Adepts but they went into Remand grind. Game 3 I mulled to 5 but drew Cavern which negated his hand full of counterspells. When 2 Waves started forcefully showing up on the battlefield it was over quick.
R3 vs RG Ponza
Pierce on Stone Rain, Harbinger on Bird, Adept, Waves, Waves...
In game 2 he played Choke which wasn't a problem (2 Island, Cavern, Oboro, Minamo) so that was finally a chance for Legendary land duo to shine. Unfortunately, he played dorks into Sword of Fire&Ice (killed Lord, Tidebinder and Master of Waves) and I had no way to quickly dump my hand out and race it.
Game 3 was curving out, including Gut Shot on Bird and Pierce on Anger.
R4 vs Abzan Company
We both mulled but he had the Vizier/Druid combo turn 3.
Then we both mulled again (to 5 for me) and he resolved Worship with 6 mana so my Pierce was not relevant. Quick check the sideboard, Truth is there so scoop.
3:1, so many small creatures, Ballista would have a field day if it wasn't benched.
I had 4 Tricksters and they did absolutely nothing, but there are other tournaments in the future.
The reason Merfolk Trickster did nothing is because you played a bunch of untiered whack decks (with the exception of the last deck you played which is IME unfavourable anyway).
I absolutely hated Merfolk pre-dominaria. However, with Merfolk Trickster and a favourable meta the new Nikachu build has been amazing IME - the only cards im different on are 4x Unified Will for 4x Deprive - I just dont like the manabase for deprive unless I cut caverns (which im not going to do).
Has anyone been playing comp MTGO leagues with Mono-U Trickster Merfolk? I just bought the MTGO deck last night and will spend sometime getting re-orientated with MTGO before I launch into leagues..
Tested Trickster along with Chalice MD last FNM. Didn't took extensives notes but here's a few highlights.
Round 1: vs Marvel Combo
G1:
Thankfully I had Tricker in hand and a Vial @ 2 8D . Swarmed him Game 2
Round 2: vs Counters Company
G1: Tons of interaction with trickster to avoid my opponent to go infinite, game lasted quite a while but i ended running out of gas.
G2: Made the mistake or keeping a hand with 2 deprives, minamo and wanderwine. Never drew an Island... Also should have sided tidebinders
Round 3: vs Jund+U?
G1-G2: Shut off his red mana, MoW did the job as he never got to draw maelstrom pulse.
Round 4: vs Boggles
G1-G2: First time I played against this deck. Wish I had spell pierce, I guess.
- Chalice was fun MD During Treasure Cruise/Delver mania. It is not as fun right now.
- So, Boggles. This matchup feel worse than Affinity. How are we supposed to beat this?
- Spell Pierce seems like the go-to for now.
- TricksterBlock Goyf is awesome. TricksterSac into Lili too. Trickster Emrakul Mind Blew everyone. #TricksterMVP
Round 4: vs Boggles
G1-G2: First time I played against this deck. Wish I had spell pierce, I guess.
- Chalice was fun MD During Treasure Cruise/Delver mania. It is not as fun right now.
- So, Boggles. This matchup feel worse than Affinity. How are we supposed to beat this?
- Spell Pierce seems like the go-to for now.
went 2-1 vs boggles (round 3) in a semi-recent FNM:
chalice of the void was for my meta (affinity, boggles, infect-rich.)
r3 vs boggles:
2-1
SB none
notes:
game 3, boggles went: turn 1 forest fetch - dryad arbor.
i went turn 1 island, cursecatcher.
he went turn 2, plains, tap arbor, rancor and white umbra.
i went turn 2, chalice for 1.
he went turn 3, land, 2-drop aura, swing.
i went turn 3, spreading seas on arbor, he auras fell off... he scooped.
I’m pretty sure spreading seas wouldn’t make auras fall off Dryad Arbor. It doesn’t remove its creature status, it only turns it from a forest to an island. But maybe I’m misunderstanding what is actually happening.
It stays a creature, yes. The way you beat Bogles mostly revolves around Coronet - if you can counter it (with Deprive or Spell Pierce), bounce it (or bounce other Auras in response to it being cast to blow them out), or fade it, you can win.
It stays a creature, yes. The way you beat Bogles mostly revolves around Coronet - if you can counter it (with Deprive or Spell Pierce), bounce it (or bounce other Auras in response to it being cast to blow them out), or fade it, you can win.
can't engineered explosives for x=1 be used? it should do some work for elves, cheerios and lanter too. and what about splashing fastlands (e.g. wanderwine hub) just to have a colour for EE?
Depending on the meta, for a somewhat less expensive solution, you could splash a color to support Back to Nature (ideal for Fish decks) or Paraselene in the SB...just be careful of the timing of landing your Spreading Seas.
It stays a creature, yes. The way you beat Bogles mostly revolves around Coronet - if you can counter it (with Deprive or Spell Pierce), bounce it (or bounce other Auras in response to it being cast to blow them out), or fade it, you can win.
Was packing 4 deprives and 3 echoing thruths in the SB (which I guess i should have mulliganed to have one). With the pieces in MD i should be all set then, thanks!
I would take Deprive every time. It will always only cost UU, and the price of returning a land to your hand is worth it if the alternative is not being able to cast the spell at all because you can't afford UU1. If you don't have a wizard in play, meaning you have a lord heavy hand or board, then you can't afford to deploy a Master of the Pearl Trident, or attack with a Mutavault, and keep up UU for Wizard's Retort if you're sitting on 4 mana.
Returning the land to your hand isn't for meta purposes, it's just a much more affordable and less risky cost than hoping you have a wizard in play.
Nikachu just put up a little video about this comparison. I'd check it out.
I would take Deprive every time. It will always only cost UU, and the price of returning a land to your hand is worth it if the alternative is not being able to cast the spell at all because you can't afford UU1. If you don't have a wizard in play, meaning you have a lord heavy hand or board, then you can't afford to deploy a Master of the Pearl Trident, or attack with a Mutavault, and keep up UU for Wizard's Retort if you're sitting on 4 mana.
Returning the land to your hand isn't for meta purposes, it's just a much more affordable and less risky cost than hoping you have a wizard in play.
Nikachu just put up a little video about this comparison. I'd check it out.
Come to think of it, Deprive has a backhanded synergy with Undiscovered Paradise; if it's going to return to your hand anyway next turn, why not use it as your 'penalty' land now? Interesting for those of us (like me) that don't have a lot of the ludicrously-priced lands. (I'm still salivating over CoS, but I'm not going to pay or trade almost $100 card value per.)
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
Still, there is a clear cost to the reliability of Deprive. Whether this small loss of reliability is more or less important than cutting through countermagic is a judgment call that is likely very metagame dependent.
Note that this is a back-of-the-envelope sort of guess, not a rigorously analyzed one. Use at your peril.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
Modern Tallowisp Spirits - A Modern Tallowisp Deck UW
Eldrazi Ninjas - Summoning Octopus Jutsu YYYYAAAHHHH!
STANDARD
Naban Wizards
Considering that the card has been around since Lorwyn, probably not. Other than turning on Islandwalk (at the expense of not being able to attack with it!), it's not going to be useful in terms of messing with opposing colors. You can't use it on their turn, and if you use it on your own turn, they can just play their spell in response. Sure, I can think of a few niche situations where it would work, but there are a ton more where it's going to be a plain old Merfolk of the Pearl Trident.
I know in the past, people were using Sea's Claim as the 5th-8th Seas. That seems to have fallen out of favor though.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
(a) The synergy between Grand Architect and Master of Waves is real. Getting an extra token and having them all be 3/2 is a big deal.
(b) A Ballista fueled by Architect is extremely powerful against many opponents. Ballista also gives us a way to use a bit more mana in the midgame. Also, living the dream of going Architect into Master of Waves into Ballista is incredible.
(c) The deck is still a drop slower than before.
(d) Ballista without Architect is not especially impressive.
(e) I'm definitely missing out on some of the synergy of Trickster with Reejerey, but I'm not certain it would have made a difference so far.
So yeah, the Ballista build is definitely less consistent and aggressive, but it has seriously improved mid-game power and randomly gets massive upside from the right Architect draws. I'm not convinced one is better than the other. YMMV.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
That said, I took a break from Architect/Ballista version to play "regular" version today.
4 tournaments at the same time, Standard, Modern and 2 Drafts.
I took the relevant format, 4 Spell Pierces and went to battle.
R1 vs Skred Red
Spell Pierce on Mind Stone, Adept and Spell Pierce on Chandra, Waves...
Game 2 opponent played 2 Angers into Dragon. My naked Waves could not race it in time.
Game 3 first Waves fell to Dismember, second and third did not.
Love playing against this deck, always fun until the Master arrives.
R2 vs UR Pyromancer
Won game 1 with Waves (who knew?...), lost game 2 by being stuck on Island, Mutavault the whole game while Vial took Abrade on the chin. Had 3 Adepts but they went into Remand grind. Game 3 I mulled to 5 but drew Cavern which negated his hand full of counterspells. When 2 Waves started forcefully showing up on the battlefield it was over quick.
R3 vs RG Ponza
Pierce on Stone Rain, Harbinger on Bird, Adept, Waves, Waves...
In game 2 he played Choke which wasn't a problem (2 Island, Cavern, Oboro, Minamo) so that was finally a chance for Legendary land duo to shine. Unfortunately, he played dorks into Sword of Fire&Ice (killed Lord, Tidebinder and Master of Waves) and I had no way to quickly dump my hand out and race it.
Game 3 was curving out, including Gut Shot on Bird and Pierce on Anger.
R4 vs Abzan Company
We both mulled but he had the Vizier/Druid combo turn 3.
Then we both mulled again (to 5 for me) and he resolved Worship with 6 mana so my Pierce was not relevant. Quick check the sideboard, Truth is there so scoop.
3:1, so many small creatures, Ballista would have a field day if it wasn't benched.
I had 4 Tricksters and they did absolutely nothing, but there are other tournaments in the future.
I absolutely hated Merfolk pre-dominaria. However, with Merfolk Trickster and a favourable meta the new Nikachu build has been amazing IME - the only cards im different on are 4x Unified Will for 4x Deprive - I just dont like the manabase for deprive unless I cut caverns (which im not going to do).
UWx control/midrange
Bant Eldrazi
UWx control/midrange
Bant Eldrazi
Round 1: vs Marvel Combo
G1:
Round 2: vs Counters Company
G1: Tons of interaction with trickster to avoid my opponent to go infinite, game lasted quite a while but i ended running out of gas.
G2: Made the mistake or keeping a hand with 2 deprives, minamo and wanderwine. Never drew an Island... Also should have sided tidebinders
Round 3: vs Jund+U?
G1-G2: Shut off his red mana, MoW did the job as he never got to draw maelstrom pulse.
Round 4: vs Boggles
G1-G2: First time I played against this deck. Wish I had spell pierce, I guess.
- Chalice was fun MD During Treasure Cruise/Delver mania. It is not as fun right now.
- So, Boggles. This matchup feel worse than Affinity. How are we supposed to beat this?
- Spell Pierce seems like the go-to for now.
- TricksterBlock Goyf is awesome. TricksterSac into Lili too. Trickster Emrakul Mind Blew everyone. #TricksterMVP
went 2-1 vs boggles (round 3) in a semi-recent FNM:
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkfx2kA8gok&feature=emb_logo
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3RYiZJFCK0
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j18HlKybrm8&feature=emb_logo
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiAEzfAgpbI&t=1s
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vNr_4ubfMg&t=1s
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJcwpxraL-g&t=1s
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8MyVNLVYNw&t=1s
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-M5ffoArnY&t=1s
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_yQEBOPi_w&feature=emb_logo
extended - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLpUB9zpyr4&feature=emb_logo
BLiliana, Heretical HealerB| |GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
GWBDoom Plane EnchantressBWG
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
Depending on the meta, for a somewhat less expensive solution, you could splash a color to support Back to Nature (ideal for Fish decks) or Paraselene in the SB...just be careful of the timing of landing your Spreading Seas.
Standard: Fileted By Fish (UG aggro Merfolk), A Fine Kettle of Fish (UG swarm Merfolk), The Deep Blue Sea-People II (Umidrange Merfolk/Wizards),
Greek Fire (UR Wizards), Riptide (U Tempo)
Was packing 4 deprives and 3 echoing thruths in the SB (which I guess i should have mulliganed to have one). With the pieces in MD i should be all set then, thanks!
I suppose you could be using it to save Mutavault in combat or that's targeted after it metamorphoses...
Standard: Fileted By Fish (UG aggro Merfolk), A Fine Kettle of Fish (UG swarm Merfolk), The Deep Blue Sea-People II (Umidrange Merfolk/Wizards),
Greek Fire (UR Wizards), Riptide (U Tempo)
Returning the land to your hand isn't for meta purposes, it's just a much more affordable and less risky cost than hoping you have a wizard in play.
Nikachu just put up a little video about this comparison. I'd check it out.
BLiliana, Heretical HealerB| |GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
GWBDoom Plane EnchantressBWG
I ordered them from Card Kingdom over the weekend. They'll be here in a couple of days.
Standard: Fileted By Fish (UG aggro Merfolk), A Fine Kettle of Fish (UG swarm Merfolk), The Deep Blue Sea-People II (Umidrange Merfolk/Wizards),
Greek Fire (UR Wizards), Riptide (U Tempo)
Come to think of it, Deprive has a backhanded synergy with Undiscovered Paradise; if it's going to return to your hand anyway next turn, why not use it as your 'penalty' land now? Interesting for those of us (like me) that don't have a lot of the ludicrously-priced lands. (I'm still salivating over CoS, but I'm not going to pay or trade almost $100 card value per.)
Standard: Fileted By Fish (UG aggro Merfolk), A Fine Kettle of Fish (UG swarm Merfolk), The Deep Blue Sea-People II (Umidrange Merfolk/Wizards),
Greek Fire (UR Wizards), Riptide (U Tempo)