Alright so I found the time to get a list together. Note that this is a rough dtaft, untested, cobbled together pretty quick. Any help is greatly appreciated!
The manabase looks REALLY sketchy to me right now, but this is what I could get together. Because I can't afford a lot of fetches, I'm going to have more mana on hand, so I'm trying to abuse my large amounts of lands. Ghost Quarter and Raven's Crime attack from two different angles and form a lock with Life from the Loam. Again, any help is appreciated!
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Alright so I found the time to get a list together. Note that this is a rough dtaft, untested, cobbled together pretty quick. Any help is greatly appreciated!
The manabase looks REALLY sketchy to me right now, but this is what I could get together. Because I can't afford a lot of fetches, I'm going to have more mana on hand, so I'm trying to abuse my large amounts of lands. Ghost Quarter and Raven's Crime attack from two different angles and form a lock with Life from the Loam. Again, any help is appreciated!
It actually looks pretty solid. I don't play blue though. It has your enablers the solid removal, single loam, troll vengevine grabecrawlers and dredgers. I would proxy it and test it at your fnm against players after rounds. Just a thought.
Value is good. But Dredgevine isn't supposed to be about value. It's supposed to be about V-8; 2000 pounds of nitro boosted war vegetables. The more velocity, the better.
Modern:
DredgeVine EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima Standard:
Hedron Crab is just awesome, the only difficulty is when to play it. Is the best motor the deck has, and I can ensure that if Crab doesn't die, you win.
Stubborn Denial is an incredible counter spell, I'm playing 2MD/2SB, as Oscar Christensen (GP Copenhagen) did, and I can say there is a LOT to counter in a game 1 of this format.
Tracker's Instincts gives you oil, on early and mid-late with its flashback, which finds you more menaces and makes your deck more redundant, which is always good.
This cards justify the existence of this version, I'm not saying one version is better than the other, but I've been playing BUG for a long time and is an incredible deck.
My concern right now is having 5 three drops, which seems kind of greedy. Skaab Ruinator, as cool (and a fun to pronounce) name as it has, it may be too awkward to have him in. On a side note, what's a recommended sideboard for this deck? My meta is very diverse, but I also go up against combo at least 2 or 3 matches out of a 5 round FNM. What bases should I try to cover?
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Hedron Crab is just awesome, the only difficulty is when to play it. Is the best motor the deck has, and I can ensure that if Crab doesn't die, you win.
Stubborn Denial is an incredible counter spell, I'm playing 2MD/2SB, as Oscar Christensen (GP Copenhagen) did, and I can say there is a LOT to counter in a game 1 of this format.
Tracker's Instincts gives you oil, on early and mid-late with its flashback, which finds you more menaces and makes your deck more redundant, which is always good.
This cards justify the existence of this version, I'm not saying one version is better than the other, but I've been playing BUG for a long time and is an incredible deck.
My concern right now is having 5 three drops, which seems kind of greedy. Skaab Ruinator, as cool (and a fun to pronounce) name as it has, it may be too awkward to have him in. On a side note, what's a recommended sideboard for this deck? My meta is very diverse, but I also go up against combo at least 2 or 3 matches out of a 5 round FNM. What bases should I try to cover?
you also have 8 1 drops 4 are mana dorks so you have enough to cover the gap. Stink weed imp ismy something your trying to cast it's something you're trying to dump as often as possible casting it only as backup. Ruinatior you can dump so he isn't clustering your hand so he isn't a horrible three drop so you essentially only have one three drop that hurts early. Sideboard is really meta dependent. I would say you the most versatile options are skite, gnaw, ghost quarter/fulminator mage. Then hurkyl's and stubborn denial too.
Value is good. But Dredgevine isn't supposed to be about value. It's supposed to be about V-8; 2000 pounds of nitro boosted war vegetables. The more velocity, the better.
Modern:
DredgeVine EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima Standard:
Hedron Crab is just awesome, the only difficulty is when to play it. Is the best motor the deck has, and I can ensure that if Crab doesn't die, you win.
Stubborn Denial is an incredible counter spell, I'm playing 2MD/2SB, as Oscar Christensen (GP Copenhagen) did, and I can say there is a LOT to counter in a game 1 of this format.
Tracker's Instincts gives you oil, on early and mid-late with its flashback, which finds you more menaces and makes your deck more redundant, which is always good.
This cards justify the existence of this version, I'm not saying one version is better than the other, but I've been playing BUG for a long time and is an incredible deck.
My concern right now is having 5 three drops, which seems kind of greedy. Skaab Ruinator, as cool (and a fun to pronounce) name as it has, it may be too awkward to have him in. On a side note, what's a recommended sideboard for this deck? My meta is very diverse, but I also go up against combo at least 2 or 3 matches out of a 5 round FNM. What bases should I try to cover?
you also have 8 1 drops 4 are mana dorks so you have enough to cover the gap. Stink weed imp ismy something your trying to cast it's something you're trying to dump as often as possible casting it only as backup. Ruinatior you can dump so he isn't clustering your hand so he isn't a horrible three drop so you essentially only have one three drop that hurts early. Sideboard is really meta dependent. I would say you the most versatile options are skite, gnaw, ghost quarter/fulminator mage. Then hurkyl's and stubborn denial too.
Alright, this should help a lot. Thanks! Now, while the primer does mention matchups, is there any more detail on the Twin, Affinity, and Jund matchups? Are they good/bad? My meta is diverse, but these are big contenders, although more so Twin and Affinity than Jund.
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I've been streaming and recording some matches. I uploaded the first one this evening and will be uploading a few more this weekend. I'll try and get some good quality Tier 1 matches. Merry Christmas everyone!
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Modern decks: BGRDredgevineBGR UWRJeskai ControlUWR
I'm not sure what you play on but I've played against this deck a few times on xmage I believe. Have you thought about suring up against a mirror type match? I play many versions of reanimator style decks and I feel like I'm favored heavily with hulk and Griselbrand style decks.
Nice primer Creamy. What I don't understand thought is why you don't mention lists that placed well in tournaments instead of (what I assume are) random forum user's lists. I'd imagine most people interested in trying the deck would want to use a proven list as a starting point.
I guess the most famous Dredgevine deck is Legion273's Jund for winning the MTGO Modern Festival:
Nice primer Creamy. What I don't understand thought is why you don't mention lists that placed well in tournaments instead of (what I assume are) random forum user's lists. I'd imagine most people interested in trying the deck would want to use a proven list as a starting point.
I guess the most famous Dredgevine deck is Legion273's Jund for winning the MTGO Modern Festival:
I made the Primer, so I get to put my list up there. I have Top 8 a RPTQ earlier this year. Pizzap has multiple daily 4-0 records and got featured in Frank Lepore's article.
Regarding the Sultai vs Jund builds, I think the major reasons to go U is for Jace, for flashing back sideboard cards and removal, and for Hedron Crab, for velocity. With respect to consistency of hitting the landfall triggers, I find, at least in the Jund Bloodghast-less builds, that I stop hitting land drops very quickly, and will often throw fetches T1 to help set up Anglers. Without red, you had to shift your removal to rely more on Murderous Cut to take care of Tasigurs, Anglers, Siege Rhinos, etc. With relying on more delve, especially if you are flashing it back with Jace, then you end up burning a lot of your angler fuel early. Plus, I will commonly Lighting Axe T1 on a dork just to set up an early Angler, but I can also save it for their big threats later on.
Also, I don't think the "Dies to Removal" is an unreasonable statement for Magus. Since it dies to basically every removal spell in the format and doesn't have anyway to protect itself, it actually gives opponents a perfect target for their removal, which our deck normally makes horrible (see Bolt, Abrupt Decay vs Gravecrawler, Troll, Angler, Bloodghast, Venginevine, etc). In addition, it doesn't provide any sort of value unless it untaps, which is certainly not a given in Modern. Jace is different because he blanks creature removal once he transforms and his 2 toughness means he is at least somewhat resistant. He might be good as a 1-one, but he is still super fragile and makes him a liability that the base GB shell doesn't normally have
Also CavalryWolfPack, if you are looking to save some money, I think the Jund version is cheaper than the Sultai version. Non-blue fetches (and No-Jace) should cut down the costs, and the red cards are super cheap (Looting, Lightning Axe, Ancient Grudge, etc). Except for maybe Jace, most of the grindest cards in the deck are all GB, so don't worry. It's still super grindy. You haven't lived until you used Tymaret+Gravecrawlers loops to slog through Hordes of Snapcasters, Bolts, and Kolaghan's Command.
How concerning is it that the new Bxx Eldrazi decks that are popping up are running between 6-8 copies of graveyard hate? If the deck is good and sticks around it's basically a matchup we can't win.
Regarding the Sultai vs Jund builds, I think the major reasons to go U is for Jace, for flashing back sideboard cards and removal, and for Hedron Crab, for velocity. With respect to consistency of hitting the landfall triggers, I find, at least in the Jund Bloodghast-less builds, that I stop hitting land drops very quickly, and will often throw fetches T1 to help set up Anglers. Without red, you had to shift your removal to rely more on Murderous Cut to take care of Tasigurs, Anglers, Siege Rhinos, etc. With relying on more delve, especially if you are flashing it back with Jace, then you end up burning a lot of your angler fuel early. Plus, I will commonly Lighting Axe T1 on a dork just to set up an early Angler, but I can also save it for their big threats later on.
Also CavalryWolfPack, if you are looking to save some money, I think the Jund version is cheaper than the Sultai version. Non-blue fetches (and No-Jace) should cut down the costs, and the red cards are super cheap (Looting, Lightning Axe, Ancient Grudge, etc). Except for maybe Jace, most of the grindest cards in the deck are all GB, so don't worry. It's still super grindy. You haven't lived until you used Tymaret+Gravecrawlers loops to slog through Hordes of Snapcasters, Bolts, and Kolaghan's Command.
This! This! This! Use more fetches in BUG versions for landfall triggers with Hedron Crab and the extra delve spell. A veteran player who knows how to combat this trick will always kill the T1 enabler (Birds / Crab) or T2 Troll. I think the ultimate goal is to run playsets of everything and run them out of resources. Between Salvage, Looting and Trackers Instinct, I can usually dig for a second copy of whatever I need! Red is definitely more cost efficient. Anytime you're playing the control color, the price of the card is typically double in price.
How concerning is it that the new Bxx Eldrazi decks that are popping up are running between 6-8 copies of graveyard hate? If the deck is good and sticks around it's basically a matchup we can't win.
Graveyard hate sucks, but you're going to run into it vs a lot of good decks at a tournament. Jund typically runs ~2 copies of Scavenging Ooze; Tron can run a full playset of Relic of Progenitus; Death and Taxes runs a playset of Dryad Militant. There are probably more that I'm forgetting, but when you play against graveyard hate, you have to turn into the aggro deck. Take more draws instead of dredging and hit cards you need. I typically wait a few turns post sideboard and hit some land drops and just hold up my removal for whatever they play. I try to side out my dredge cards in favor of more removal depending on the colors. For example, against a white deck, I always side in Golgari Charm because most good decks have a Rest in Peace or something similar waiting in their SB. Also against certain black and red decks that run either Leyline or Blood Moon. Splinter Twin almost always has a Blood Moon that comes in G2, so watch out!
I was checking recent results on TCGPlayer. Congrats to Pizzap and MTGO user Lars for going 5-0 in recent Modern Daily Leagues. Keep repping the deck gentlemen! Links below...
Hey guys, i'm right now playing UR twin exarch as my primary deck in modern, however I have always liked graveyard strategies and I love the dredge mechanic so I will probably invest into this deck aswell. I will probably build the jund version first, the most grindier version, but I have a question to ask you guys, how do you feel Tarmogoyf would fare in this deck? It's a huge beater that grows with the graveyard as well. Probably some of you have tested it so I would like to see why it can/can't work.
Hey guys, i'm right now playing UR twin exarch as my primary deck in modern, however I have always liked graveyard strategies and I love the dredge mechanic so I will probably invest into this deck aswell. I will probably build the jund version first, the most grindier version, but I have a question to ask you guys, how do you feel Tarmogoyf would fare in this deck? It's a huge beater that grows with the graveyard as well. Probably some of you have tested it so I would like to see why it can/can't work.
Welcome to the War Vegetable Machine!
I've considered it before. I think in certain metas, it could be good. In general, I think it doesn't progress our game plan at all: doesn't fill the graveyard (Satyr Wayfinder), act as a discard outlet (Troll), and isn't a Zombie (Angler). In addition, unlike a lot of our cards, it dies to many removal spells in the format, which is one of the reasons the deck is quite good against Jund/Grixis. That said, I could see it being good in certain removal-light match-ups when you just want big-cheap bodies. We certainly do a good job of powering up opposing Goyfs with creatures, lands, sorceries, and instants typically in the yard by T2. That said, I haven't coughed up the money to test it.
Hey guys, i'm right now playing UR twin exarch as my primary deck in modern, however I have always liked graveyard strategies and I love the dredge mechanic so I will probably invest into this deck aswell. I will probably build the jund version first, the most grindier version, but I have a question to ask you guys, how do you feel Tarmogoyf would fare in this deck? It's a huge beater that grows with the graveyard as well. Probably some of you have tested it so I would like to see why it can/can't work.
We already have a Tarmogoyf. It's called Gurmag Angler. Higher power + zombie + makes opposing Goyfs weaker. Angler > Goyf
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Modern decks: BGRDredgevineBGR UWRJeskai ControlUWR
So I run a slightly different Dredgevine list, mainly running Liliana of the Veils instead of more aggro. Since I posted my last list, I have added red on one Blood Crypt for Faithless Lootings, but mostly the sideboard. While I have cut the Ancient Grudges that led me to red (since Affinity wasn't that bad for me and Fulminator Mage is better against Tron), Faithless Looting is absurd. Discarding one thing that comes back means you are even on cards and the flashback leads to so much inevitability. Here is my list, sorted by card type:
I built your list on MODO and played a few matches. The mana was near impossible to consistently drop what I'm looking for. Your mainboard curve is alright with the total amount of mana, but I had a lot of cards dead in my hand. With only one red source in the entire deck, when I didn't hit a fetch, I couldn't cast a Faithless Looting. Also, get rid of the manland. I want to be able to use my mana the turn it comes down. Twice when I drew it I couldn't cast a Lotleth Troll or Abrupt Decay.
The sideboard is way too heavy. Your SB has six 4 CMC, three 3 CMC and lackluster lifegain. No Ancient Grudge or Spellskite (just my opinion), but that's a huge mistake. You have 4 discard + Liliana MB, so -1 Thoughtseize. Dump the Bloodghast, we don't ever want it as a SB option. Switch a Corossion for an Ancient Grudge and the previous two suggestions to make +3 Grudge. Damnation is good in a lot of decks, but it's not what we want to be doing. -2 for +2 Spellskite.
It appears like you're trying to force Jund into Dredgevine. Both solid decks, but totally different.
I just cut a Stomping Ground for another basic Swamp and haven't tested it yet, so maybe I need another red source or fetch (I'm leaning towards another Bloodstained Mire). I've found Treetop Village to do a lot more good than harm as a one-of, so I feel like you might have been unlucky?
The sideboard is a recent creation and probably needs some refinement. Ancient Grudge was originally in my sideboard but I didn't feel I needed it. Out of Affinity, Damnation is better, while hitting Zoo and other decks that are faster than me. Grudge also doesn't hit Karn, Ugin, Ulamog, or Emrakul, and I have Murderous Cut and Liliana to deal with Wurmcoil. That's why I don't have Grudge in the sideboard.
I've been boarding out Looting versus Burn to gain me two life, so I don't want Gnaw to the Bone, so Feed the Clan seemed the best. Is that wrong? Should I have Gnaw?
Lastly, I've been on vacation so I haven't been able to test out the latest changes to this deck. If you drew the Nyx Weavers, how did they perform for you?
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I spend most of my MTG time online over at [url=http://tappedout.net]tappedout.net[/url] or on [url=http://xmage.info]XMage[/card].
4 Vengevine
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Gravecrawler
4 Hedron Crab
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Gurmag Angler
3 Stinkweed Imp
1 Skaab Ruinator
1 Magus of the Bazaar
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Grisly Salvage
1 Life from the Loam
1 Raven's Crime
2 Murderous Cut
Lands
4 Polluted Delta
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Breeding Pool
1 Watery Grave
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Woodland Cemetery
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 Darkslick Shore
2 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Island
The manabase looks REALLY sketchy to me right now, but this is what I could get together. Because I can't afford a lot of fetches, I'm going to have more mana on hand, so I'm trying to abuse my large amounts of lands. Ghost Quarter and Raven's Crime attack from two different angles and form a lock with Life from the Loam. Again, any help is appreciated!
BGRDredgevineBGR
UWRJeskai ControlUWR
Pauper:
GMono-Green AggroG
MTGO Username: creamy99
Twitch Stream: www.twitch.tv/coachcreamy
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/Cherokee3210
Check it out for the latest testing, gameplay, and dailies!
Modern:
DredgeVine
EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima
Standard:
Modern:
DredgeVine
EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima
Standard:
I've been streaming and recording some matches. I uploaded the first one this evening and will be uploading a few more this weekend. I'll try and get some good quality Tier 1 matches. Merry Christmas everyone!
BGRDredgevineBGR
UWRJeskai ControlUWR
Pauper:
GMono-Green AggroG
MTGO Username: creamy99
Twitch Stream: www.twitch.tv/coachcreamy
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/Cherokee3210
Check it out for the latest testing, gameplay, and dailies!
I guess the most famous Dredgevine deck is Legion273's Jund for winning the MTGO Modern Festival:
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=10032&d=257881&f=MO
There are videos on SCG of his exact 75 being played by Sam Black and Gerry T:
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/31187_Video-Dredgevine-In-Modern.html
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/31680_Video--Dredgevine-In-Modern-.html
Then mtgtop8 has two european BUG lists that made top 8 of large important tournaments:
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=10430&d=259696&f=MO
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=10598&d=260594&f=MO
I'll certainly put the Festival list up there.
BGRDredgevineBGR
UWRJeskai ControlUWR
Pauper:
GMono-Green AggroG
MTGO Username: creamy99
Twitch Stream: www.twitch.tv/coachcreamy
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/Cherokee3210
Check it out for the latest testing, gameplay, and dailies!
Also, I don't think the "Dies to Removal" is an unreasonable statement for Magus. Since it dies to basically every removal spell in the format and doesn't have anyway to protect itself, it actually gives opponents a perfect target for their removal, which our deck normally makes horrible (see Bolt, Abrupt Decay vs Gravecrawler, Troll, Angler, Bloodghast, Venginevine, etc). In addition, it doesn't provide any sort of value unless it untaps, which is certainly not a given in Modern. Jace is different because he blanks creature removal once he transforms and his 2 toughness means he is at least somewhat resistant. He might be good as a 1-one, but he is still super fragile and makes him a liability that the base GB shell doesn't normally have
Also CavalryWolfPack, if you are looking to save some money, I think the Jund version is cheaper than the Sultai version. Non-blue fetches (and No-Jace) should cut down the costs, and the red cards are super cheap (Looting, Lightning Axe, Ancient Grudge, etc). Except for maybe Jace, most of the grindest cards in the deck are all GB, so don't worry. It's still super grindy. You haven't lived until you used Tymaret+Gravecrawlers loops to slog through Hordes of Snapcasters, Bolts, and Kolaghan's Command.
BGRDredgevineBGR
UWRJeskai ControlUWR
Pauper:
GMono-Green AggroG
MTGO Username: creamy99
Twitch Stream: www.twitch.tv/coachcreamy
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/Cherokee3210
Check it out for the latest testing, gameplay, and dailies!
Pizzap: Decklist
Lars: Decklist
BGRDredgevineBGR
UWRJeskai ControlUWR
Pauper:
GMono-Green AggroG
MTGO Username: creamy99
Twitch Stream: www.twitch.tv/coachcreamy
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/Cherokee3210
Check it out for the latest testing, gameplay, and dailies!
RBGW Suicide Zoo
Legacy
RUG Canadian Threshold
Welcome to the War Vegetable Machine!
I've considered it before. I think in certain metas, it could be good. In general, I think it doesn't progress our game plan at all: doesn't fill the graveyard (Satyr Wayfinder), act as a discard outlet (Troll), and isn't a Zombie (Angler). In addition, unlike a lot of our cards, it dies to many removal spells in the format, which is one of the reasons the deck is quite good against Jund/Grixis. That said, I could see it being good in certain removal-light match-ups when you just want big-cheap bodies. We certainly do a good job of powering up opposing Goyfs with creatures, lands, sorceries, and instants typically in the yard by T2. That said, I haven't coughed up the money to test it.
BGRDredgevineBGR
UWRJeskai ControlUWR
Pauper:
GMono-Green AggroG
MTGO Username: creamy99
Twitch Stream: www.twitch.tv/coachcreamy
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/Cherokee3210
Check it out for the latest testing, gameplay, and dailies!
3 Bloodghast
4 Gravecrawler
4 Lotleth Troll
2 Nyx Weaver
3 Gurmag Angler
3 Inquisition Of Kozilek
4 Faithless Looting
1 Thoughtseize
1 Darkblast
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Grisly Salvage
2 Murderous Cut
3 Liliana Of The Veil
3 Overgrown Tomb
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Treetop Village
1 Bloodstained Mire
3 Woodland Cemetery
1 Blood Crypt
2 Forest
4 Swamp
3 Fulminator Mage
3 Damnation
1 Thoughtseize
1 Bloodghast
1 Creeping Corrosion
1 Golgari Charm
3 Feed The Clan
2 Crumble To Dust
My decks:
Modern
B[url=http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/developing-competitive/220250-dredgevine?page=89#c2235]Dredgevine[/url]G
Amulet Bloom
I built your list on MODO and played a few matches. The mana was near impossible to consistently drop what I'm looking for. Your mainboard curve is alright with the total amount of mana, but I had a lot of cards dead in my hand. With only one red source in the entire deck, when I didn't hit a fetch, I couldn't cast a Faithless Looting. Also, get rid of the manland. I want to be able to use my mana the turn it comes down. Twice when I drew it I couldn't cast a Lotleth Troll or Abrupt Decay.
The sideboard is way too heavy. Your SB has six 4 CMC, three 3 CMC and lackluster lifegain. No Ancient Grudge or Spellskite (just my opinion), but that's a huge mistake. You have 4 discard + Liliana MB, so -1 Thoughtseize. Dump the Bloodghast, we don't ever want it as a SB option. Switch a Corossion for an Ancient Grudge and the previous two suggestions to make +3 Grudge. Damnation is good in a lot of decks, but it's not what we want to be doing. -2 for +2 Spellskite.
It appears like you're trying to force Jund into Dredgevine. Both solid decks, but totally different.
BGRDredgevineBGR
UWRJeskai ControlUWR
Pauper:
GMono-Green AggroG
MTGO Username: creamy99
Twitch Stream: www.twitch.tv/coachcreamy
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/Cherokee3210
Check it out for the latest testing, gameplay, and dailies!
The sideboard is a recent creation and probably needs some refinement. Ancient Grudge was originally in my sideboard but I didn't feel I needed it. Out of Affinity, Damnation is better, while hitting Zoo and other decks that are faster than me. Grudge also doesn't hit Karn, Ugin, Ulamog, or Emrakul, and I have Murderous Cut and Liliana to deal with Wurmcoil. That's why I don't have Grudge in the sideboard.
I've been boarding out Looting versus Burn to gain me two life, so I don't want Gnaw to the Bone, so Feed the Clan seemed the best. Is that wrong? Should I have Gnaw?
Lastly, I've been on vacation so I haven't been able to test out the latest changes to this deck. If you drew the Nyx Weavers, how did they perform for you?
My decks:
Modern
B[url=http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/developing-competitive/220250-dredgevine?page=89#c2235]Dredgevine[/url]G
Amulet Bloom