Thanks for the information on flamewake! I used to play it and it was really good but I only played one, I'll try and free up more space for two more
Yes they are quite good in the late game they work wonderful (2 to 6 evasive damage a turn piles up)as the offensive to get the last points down and you can stay back with blockers if needed, I wish the list could hold four but the spots and mana are restrictive.
I feel like dredgevine has potential to be tier 2 we just lack the playerbase so seeing new players here is awesome!
I think so too it is a very synergistic deck, But it is really tough to master, has lots and lots of synergy that can take your opponent off guard, and I love that. I will keep posting results of the games. So far I keep try to find ways to outmaneuver scavenging ooze and Anafenza which are public enemy number one, worst than rest in peace or noncreature graveyard hate in my opinion, (At least rest in peace doesn't hit you for 4 or 5 )
A wild idea I am thinking to apply is from Rafael Levy dredge deck is having a one of Conflagrate in the side or another one, is to have some form of removal in a creature that can be searched with salvage like Shriekmaw (Solves Ooze problem) or as posted earlier Big Game Hunter But as you say feedback is needed, to know what works and what doesn't.
I leave for a few months and return to a shiny new and amazing Dredgevine Primer thread
Creamy, if this were Reddit, I'd give you gold lol
I'll start by throwing up the list I am currently using for those who are interested. This is in fact the list I have been the most successful with. I almost got close to making Top 8 at a 100+ person Modern tournament with this list, but some terrible draws and mulligans handed me some unfortunate losses.
If anyone has any questions about my list, feel free to throw them my way.
In other news, am I the only Dredgevine player that is incredibly angry with the new Commander set? Like seriously. Why is it WotC doesn't make the new cards in these sets Modern legal as well as Legacy/Vintage legal? It would enable them to print some powerful cards for Modern without them having to worry about them having to go through Standard. The reason I bring this up is Scourge of Nel Toth. Screw Gurmag Angler, this dragon is your giant zombie of choice now! But sadly no. This thing isn't Modern legal, and I want to smack WotC for teasing me like this.
After almost a year off of Magic, the siren call lured me back. So I'll be going to FNM tonight and sleeving up DredgeVine. Unlike most in the thread (at least that I've seen) I run DredgeVine with a Rites package. 1. I find it more interesting and fun; 2. I feel like it gives me a few more outs in a lot of matchups; and 3. I can sometimes sneak out a few wins because my opponents either aren't familiar with what I'm doing or end up focusing on the wrong thing. Make no mistake, this is a Vengevine deck at its core and that's almost always Plan A when I'm playing, but sometimes the sight of Elesh or Iona gets people distracted.
I know it looks odd in some spots, but I've had a fair amount of success with the build - at least when I regularly played; we'll see what happens after tonight having been gone a year. As stated earlier in the thread, this archetype really rewards experience and knowing your deck inside and out. I'm happy to report back on what happens tonight.
So, I'm playing in a local Open Trial this weekend and going with Dredgevine at multiple people's suggestions. I will make sure to try and remember what happens and make a write up for it. I'm kinda going along the lines of the Jund Aggroy build but with a few different spells, but would definitely like opinions on it.
Here it is:
I was thinking of switching the Grave-trolls for Stinkweed Imp since he makes for an easy casting blocker. Also, the sideboard, I have no idea in the end. I, also, cannot decide between Grisly Salvage or Saytr Wayfinder. I feel like the instant speed is better than the body?
So, I'm playing in a local Open Trial this weekend and going with Dredgevine at multiple people's suggestions. I will make sure to try and remember what happens and make a write up for it. I'm kinda going along the lines of the Jund Aggroy build but with a few different spells, but would definitely like opinions on it.
Here it is:
I was thinking of switching the Grave-trolls for Stinkweed Imp since he makes for an easy casting blocker. Also, the sideboard, I have no idea in the end. I, also, cannot decide between Grisly Salvage or Saytr Wayfinder. I feel like the instant speed is better than the body?
Grisly Salvage is better in my opinion. Grabbing the creature is often very important, especially when you can grab a angler and then are immediately dumping 3-4 cards of gas into the graveyard. Also the instant speed can thoroughly confuse your opponents. When you shock in abrupt decay mana and then they get to wonder what you are doing. The body on wayfinder is lackluster in my opinion. I'd rather have the option to pick a troll or angler off the top. Also I'd swap a loam mainboard and a gnaw sideboard so it's 1/1. Just my opinion.
Value is good. But Dredgevine isn't supposed to be about value. It's supposed to be about V-8; 2000 pounds of nitro boosted war vegetables. The more velocity, the better.
Modern:
DredgeVine EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima Standard:
Quote from Skitzafreak »
In other news, am I the only Dredgevine player that is incredibly angry with the new Commander set? Like seriously. Why is it WotC doesn't make the new cards in these sets Modern legal as well as Legacy/Vintage legal? It would enable them to print some powerful cards for Modern without them having to worry about them having to go through Standard. The reason I bring this up is Scourge of Nel Toth. Screw Gurmag Angler, this dragon is your giant zombie of choice now! But sadly no. This thing isn't Modern legal, and I want to smack WotC for teasing me like this.
Glad to have you back. To answer your question, I think not making Commander-Sets Modern legal enables WotC to print some really bonkers cards, and in the end that's what everyone loves about the archetype. If you have to consider for every card in every new set not only how it fits into the current format, but also how another, completely different one will react to it you will probably end up with something that feels very awkward and clunky. That said, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I'd smash the Scourge in my deck this very instant if I was allowed to...
Also, I think the thing is that they can't make certain cards legal in a set, or at least don't to avoid huge banned lists, which is what they would have to do if they made cards legal from the Commander sets. Or imagine Modern with Sol Ring in it.
So a little tournament report from this weekend. Played in a local Open Trial with 12 people and 5 rounds with a break to Top 4, unfortunately, I did not make it up to Top 4, I actually got there late and started off....
0-1: Spent to much time eating breakfast and a wreck blocked the street. Still can make Top 8 for prizes.
0-2: Mardu Weenie?: At first it wasn't so scary. He dropped Squadron Hawk and Blade Splicer. I only hit an Abrupt Decay and didn't get to go full nuts. Sorin, Visitor came down and Sword of Feast and Famine, and it started go down hill. Second Sword of F&F and a Mirran Crusader finished it off. Game 2, Mirran Crusader and Ajani Steadfast made the game go quick. Final thoughts: Mirran Crusader is kinda a problem since nothing kills it in the current build.
1-2: UW Control: This I knew going in that I had a really good chance for winning. He was going for a slower lock and I knew my creatures weren't going to be stopped. I got the explosive dredges and a ton of zombies and vines made quick work. Game 2 was even better since I could keep the Lolteth Troll on the board with regeneration, so that even if he Supreme Verdict'ed, I could regenerate through it and cast two Gravecrawlers and bring everything back.
1-3: Jund: We played a little bit between rounds and this was shaping up to be a really good matchup for me. Game 1, he hit me with a turn 1 IoK and pulled my Faithless Looting and it threw the whole game out of wack for me and ended up losing. Game 2 was the reverse on the play, Faithless Looting turn 1, Grisly Salvage turn 2, had to hold off with Gnaw to the Bone so I could get the second black source I needed to go all out and overrun him.
Game 3, I mull to 4. Looking at an okay hand with Blood Crypt, Grisly Salvage, Grave-troll, and Vengevine. I rip a Faithless off the top, draw into more B/R sources and go nowhere. He had a slow hand too and I was setting up to stall with Gnaw to the Bone, Raven's Crime and Life from the Loam, but never saw the green source.
2-3: Bye. Crud.
I went in kinda blind with the deck without playing against real people due to missing FNM last night and Game Night on Wednesday. Overall, I really like the deck, it is super resiliant in Modern and can just explode, get destroyed and explode again. Maybe some of the random 1 ofs were not right and might need some tweaking, but the overall core of the deck is solid. A suggestion that was made to me was playing a Flayer of the Hatebound or two either 1-1 in main and side. I think it has some consideration since it can really put the pain with Bloodghast, Gravecrawler, and Vengevine coming back so many times.
Also, I think the thing is that they can't make certain cards legal in a set, or at least don't to avoid huge banned lists, which is what they would have to do if they made cards legal from the Commander sets. Or imagine Modern with Sol Ring in it.
I think that it's fine that these aren't legal in Modern, since it goes againsts WOTC premise of modern of "Play enough standard and you'll have a modern deck!" Plus, there would be no other way to print a lot of legacy staples (Force of Will, Wasteland, etc) without warping the Modern format. I think they like how Scavenging Ooze worked out, where it had a test run in Legacy before being printed in a Standard set.
That said, Scourge of Nel Toth would do wonders for the deck. I've always thought that the one thing the deck was missing from exploding was another creature to consistently cast from the graveyard (Gravecrawler 5-8). My ideal version was something like "B for a 2/1 zombie. can't block. discard a card: you may cast this card from your graveyard until EOT." But, Dread Return as a creature is pretty awesome as well.
Glad to have you back. To answer your question, I think not making Commander-Sets Modern legal enables WotC to print some really bonkers cards, and in the end that's what everyone loves about the archetype. If you have to consider for every card in every new set not only how it fits into the current format, but also how another, completely different one will react to it you will probably end up with something that feels very awkward and clunky. That said, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I'd smash the Scourge in my deck this very instant if I was allowed to...
Glad to be back
I understand your arguments, but WotC can still make powerful cards for the Commander sets while also making the cards Modern legal. As for adressing cards in the Commander set that are reprints, it could be as simple as only new cards in the Commander sets are Modern legal. Any reprints have their legality in Modern determined on whether the set they were last printed is was Modern legal or not. Anyway that is neither here nor there, and I don't want to detract from the thread's topic too much
I've always thought that the one thing the deck was missing from exploding was another creature to consistently cast from the graveyard (Gravecrawler 5-8). My ideal version was something like "B for a 2/1 zombie. can't block. discard a card: you may cast this card from your graveyard until EOT." But, Dread Return as a creature is pretty awesome as well.
With any luck Shadows over Innistrad will give us a new goody to play with. I feel a creature that has an alternative cast mode similar to Dread Return like you suggested would be pretty good. Not to mention it could also make it more feasible to put Liliana, Heretical Healer in the deck. I've tried running her in my builds already, and unless you have a consistent way to sacrifice creatures she is pretty lackluster
So a little tournament report from this weekend. Played in a local Open Trial with 12 people and 5 rounds with a break to Top 4, unfortunately, I did not make it up to Top 4, I actually got there late and started off....
0-1: Spent to much time eating breakfast and a wreck blocked the street. Still can make Top 8 for prizes.
0-2: Mardu Weenie?: At first it wasn't so scary. He dropped Squadron Hawk and Blade Splicer. I only hit an Abrupt Decay and didn't get to go full nuts. Sorin, Visitor came down and Sword of Feast and Famine, and it started go down hill. Second Sword of F&F and a Mirran Crusader finished it off. Game 2, Mirran Crusader and Ajani Steadfast made the game go quick. Final thoughts: Mirran Crusader is kinda a problem since nothing kills it in the current build.
1-2: UW Control: This I knew going in that I had a really good chance for winning. He was going for a slower lock and I knew my creatures weren't going to be stopped. I got the explosive dredges and a ton of zombies and vines made quick work. Game 2 was even better since I could keep the Lolteth Troll on the board with regeneration, so that even if he Supreme Verdict'ed, I could regenerate through it and cast two Gravecrawlers and bring everything back.
1-3: Jund: We played a little bit between rounds and this was shaping up to be a really good matchup for me. Game 1, he hit me with a turn 1 IoK and pulled my Faithless Looting and it threw the whole game out of wack for me and ended up losing. Game 2 was the reverse on the play, Faithless Looting turn 1, Grisly Salvage turn 2, had to hold off with Gnaw to the Bone so I could get the second black source I needed to go all out and overrun him.
Game 3, I mull to 4. Looking at an okay hand with Blood Crypt, Grisly Salvage, Grave-troll, and Vengevine. I rip a Faithless off the top, draw into more B/R sources and go nowhere. He had a slow hand too and I was setting up to stall with Gnaw to the Bone, Raven's Crime and Life from the Loam, but never saw the green source.
2-3: Bye. Crud.
I went in kinda blind with the deck without playing against real people due to missing FNM last night and Game Night on Wednesday. Overall, I really like the deck, it is super resiliant in Modern and can just explode, get destroyed and explode again. Maybe some of the random 1 ofs were not right and might need some tweaking, but the overall core of the deck is solid. A suggestion that was made to me was playing a Flayer of the Hatebound or two either 1-1 in main and side. I think it has some consideration since it can really put the pain with Bloodghast, Gravecrawler, and Vengevine coming back so many times.
so you went 1-2 official. Small creatures are very problematic. Tough to deal with all the smaller creatures. That's a good loss. Jund is a toss up in my opinion. I've lost some I've won some. Erebos god of the dead does some work. Shuts down their lifegain and gives us card advantage and card advantage us how you beat jund. Game 1/2 hold abrupt decay for the scavenging ooze. You can burn a tarmogoyf if you need to free up their board to swing or save yourself. I've found that decay just needs to be held until they Castaneda IOK or something. Don't feel bad I went 0-4 like the first 4 weeks when I played this deck rofl. Find out what works and what doesnt and adapt.
As for Liliana I still want to try her. She can be useful in the match ups where they would usually take the suicide blood ghast and then they have to think. Ill give it a try when it's not a $25 standard card
Also feel like damnation could be an OK sideboard card. I find my worst match ups are the ones where people buff those small creatures that become big enough to threat and have stuff I can answer. I made my brother and ally deck and he hardly plays the game as we don't live together anymore but I saw him for thanksgiving and he used his deck for the first time ever. 1-4. I couldn't answer the creatures and the hardened scales so he would have massive first strike vigilance creatures I couldn't get through. Damnation could be what I want. Some of my other bad matchups include Melora collected ( small creatures getting overwhelming) and affinity (when I don't dark blast early they get big and killmuch).
Just a few thoughts.
Value is good. But Dredgevine isn't supposed to be about value. It's supposed to be about V-8; 2000 pounds of nitro boosted war vegetables. The more velocity, the better.
Modern:
DredgeVine EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima Standard:
Very Unique list. Trackers insticnts and stubborn denial are cards that I wanted to make fit but never could (Also usually play jundvine :/)
As for sideboarding wondering how Damnation and Memory's journey worked out for you? Sorry to bombard you with questions.
Value is good. But Dredgevine isn't supposed to be about value. It's supposed to be about V-8; 2000 pounds of nitro boosted war vegetables. The more velocity, the better.
Modern:
DredgeVine EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima Standard:
Very Unique list. Trackers insticnts and stubborn denial are cards that I wanted to make fit but never could (Also usually play jundvine :/)
As for sideboarding wondering how Damnation and Memory's journey worked out for you? Sorry to bombard you with questions.
I know in my list I've had great success with Damnation and it is in part due to also running Jace, Vryn's Prodigy which lets me flash it back if I dredge over it.
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Modern Decks: UBG Lantern Control GBU BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
If anyone has any questions about my list, feel free to throw them my way.
I do have one
How's your manabase holding out for you in 4C version and no Birds of Paradise? I've played around 4C some time, but found that it forces really awkward hands sometimes. Only real difference is I played Bloodstained Mire instead of catacombs. The issue I found is with shocklands, not fetches really. I assume that you'd agree to T1 Faithless Looting being probably the best possible opener, but it often leads to a strange T2, having to choose between green or blue while wanting the potential to cast Hedron crab before cracking the second fetchland. Life from the Loam seems too slow to help recover from the tempo loss that this may accidentally cause. Not to mention having a basic in my opener really sucked almost each time, but they are still essential. Mastering land drops in 4C can be a real pain.
Gonna put an emphasis on the last thing you said there:
Mastering land drops in 4C can be a real pain.
This is the key to actually making the 4 colour mana base work. You need to know which order to fetch your lands in, and when you actually need to fetch lands. Let me grab the deck and give you some sample hands to give you an idea:
I love how this hand is actually the perfect example of the kind of situation you were talking about in your comment. You have a Faithless Looting you'd like to play early, as well as a Hedron Crab. You also want to make sure you have the mana to cast Abrupt Decay, which by proxy gives you access to Satyr Wayfinder. Now what lands do you grab?
Now with this hand, casting Looting turn 1 isn't actually top priority. Being able to get out the Crab, while also having the mana for Decay is the more important goal. This is because if you don't know your match up you don't want to auto lose to Twin while having a removal spell in your hand. It feels really bad, trust me.
So what you want to do is use the Delta turn 1 to grab either a Breeding Pool or Watery Grave. This makes it so turn 2 you can cast Hedron Crab while ensuring you get 2 landfall triggers off of your Catacombs and fetching with it.
Turn 2 you'll use the Catacombs to grab Blood Crypt (if you grabbed the Pool) or Stomping Ground (if you grabbed the Grave). This allows for you to also play Looting this turn.
So by the end of turn 2, without considering any cards you've drawn, you have all 4 colours of mana, and are able to cast your Abrupt Decay
So this hand doesn't have any blue cards you want to be casting, however it does have a Faithless Looting. In fact the presence of both Gurmag Angler and Golgari Grave-Troll means you want to cast the Looting on Turn 1. So what is the order of our fetches here?
Turn 1 you want to fetch a Blood Crypt with the Catacombs so you can cast Looting. Now why don't we grab a Steam Vents instead in case we draw a Hedron Crab? Angler is the reason why. You are going to discard the Grave-Troll with the Looting, and with how this hand looks, you'll want to dredge it on turn 2. As such, in order to make fetching blue preemptively for Crab to be worth it, it needs to be one of the top two cards of your deck. However, if in the top 8 cards of your deck, there is a Gravecrawler and a Vengevine you can have an explosive Turn 2 that leaves you with a 2/1, a 5/5, and a 4/3 hasty vegetable.
So as stated above, turn 1 you fetch a Crypt, cast your Looting, discarding Troll. If you happen to draw a blue card like Jace, Vryn's Prodigy you can still use the Delta to fetch a Breeding Pool which will still set you up with all four colours of mana.
I like how this hand looks similar to hand one, while actually being completely different. Like hand one, this hand has a Faithless Looting and Hedron Crab. However unlike hand one, you actually want to cast the Looting on turn one. This hand, while keep-able, is lacking action. As such you want to be able to dig early and quickly so you can actually do *****. You have enough lands in hand right now so you can discard any extras you draw.
Turn 1 you're going do use a Delta to fetch Steam Vents and cast Looting. The Vents also gives you the blue mana for Crab, which lets you get multiple triggers in a single turn off of playing it next turn. The bonus for this hand, is it actually isn't too bad against an aggressive opener because of that Murderous Cut. After turn 1 you're just going to use the fetch lands you have left to grab whatever colours you need for whatever you draw or mill over.
Hope these examples have helped. I actually drew up four hands, but the fourth one was just terrible, and would have been a hand I would have mulliganed anyway, so I decided not to include it. If you want some example of hands you should mulligan with a deck like this, feel free to let me know
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Modern Decks: UBG Lantern Control GBU BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
So I'm thinking of splashing around in blue(yay) as like 1/2 watery Graves in June so I can play rise//fall Sorry of that didn't link properly. Rise offers do much value. Say your playing twin, bounce their creature get back a troll for sombie/wayfinder for land/JVP. Maybe I'm a little over excited by the card but it seems strong as a 2 of.
Value is good. But Dredgevine isn't supposed to be about value. It's supposed to be about V-8; 2000 pounds of nitro boosted war vegetables. The more velocity, the better.
Modern:
DredgeVine EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima Standard:
I am not sure how I feel about Rise/Fall. True you could bounce a creature from Twin, or you could just kill it with Abrupt Decay. The best value is definitely the ability to return one of your creatures, but even then it still seem lackluster. What cards would you be removing for it anyway?
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Modern Decks: UBG Lantern Control GBU BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
Rise//Fall is not a card to be splashing a fourth color with in this deck. Our manabase is so fragile with 20 lands, so make sure blue cards are only for Hedron Crab or cheap counters. We only want it for the splash so it has to be amazing graveyard synergetic
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Modern decks: BGRDredgevineBGR UWRJeskai ControlUWR
1) Noble Hierarch: The most explosive T1 this deck has is Birds of Paradise or Noble Hierarch, so this way, Hierarch is pretty good creature. Her exalted ability is only relevant the first time you reanimate a Vengevine and you attack for 5. Worst think is she can't add black mana, but having fetch lands and birds, this shouldn't be a problem. So I think is worth.
If the Exalted ability on Noble Hierarch is negligible, would Elves of Deep Shadow not be better as a two of? Helps give you that extra mana for an explosive opening, while also being able to produce black mana itself.
2)Changes: I have 3 slots that can change, 2 Grisly Salvage and 1 Satyr Wayfinder, this cards were not in the Oscar Christensen's list he played in Copenhagen, were he played BUG Dredgevine, so I will test how Scavenging Ooze and the 4th Tracker's Instincts work again.
Speaking of Scavenging Ooze, how do you like that card in the list? I didn't notice it when I first looked at the list you posted.
3) Consistency: I think this deck is pretty consistent, so I don't miss anything that way. You only have to know when to do a mulligan and not to overextended your battlefield presence when is not necesary, keep cards in hand, etc.
So basically no real differences from your standard Dredgevine list. Nice to know.
4) Damnation: I feel that the only kind of deck that can win you are those which have more creatures than you and can generate more valure some way, for example Elves, or some CoCo versions, so Damnation is a good sideboard card in that match ups. You can reanimate creatures easily, while he can't.
Also nice to note that Golgari Charm can be good against Elves until they get a lord or two out.
5) Memory's Journey: I had no change to play Memory's Journey, but I think is a very good cards vs GY decks.
The problem I see with Memory's Journey is that you don't pick the cards that get shuffled back in. So it doesn't really do much against other graveyard decks.
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Modern Decks: UBG Lantern Control GBU BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
Yes they are quite good in the late game they work wonderful (2 to 6 evasive damage a turn piles up)as the offensive to get the last points down and you can stay back with blockers if needed, I wish the list could hold four but the spots and mana are restrictive.
I think so too it is a very synergistic deck, But it is really tough to master, has lots and lots of synergy that can take your opponent off guard, and I love that. I will keep posting results of the games. So far I keep try to find ways to outmaneuver scavenging ooze and Anafenza which are public enemy number one, worst than rest in peace or noncreature graveyard hate in my opinion, (At least rest in peace doesn't hit you for 4 or 5 )
A wild idea I am thinking to apply is from Rafael Levy dredge deck is having a one of Conflagrate in the side or another one, is to have some form of removal in a creature that can be searched with salvage like Shriekmaw (Solves Ooze problem) or as posted earlier Big Game Hunter But as you say feedback is needed, to know what works and what doesn't.
Creamy, if this were Reddit, I'd give you gold lol
I'll start by throwing up the list I am currently using for those who are interested. This is in fact the list I have been the most successful with. I almost got close to making Top 8 at a 100+ person Modern tournament with this list, but some terrible draws and mulligans handed me some unfortunate losses.
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Overgrown Tomb
2 Watery Grave
1 Blood Crypt
1 Breeding Pool
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Swamp
4 Gravecrawler
4 Hedron Crab
4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Vengevine
3 Golgari Grave-Troll
2 Gurmag Angler
2 Satyr Wayfinder
1 Skaab Ruinator
4 Faithless Looting
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Murderous Cut
1 Gnaw to the Bone
1 Life from the Loam
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Gnaw to the Bone
2 Golgari Charm
2 Spellskite
1 Damnation
1 Evolutionary Leap
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Life from the Loam
If anyone has any questions about my list, feel free to throw them my way.
In other news, am I the only Dredgevine player that is incredibly angry with the new Commander set? Like seriously. Why is it WotC doesn't make the new cards in these sets Modern legal as well as Legacy/Vintage legal? It would enable them to print some powerful cards for Modern without them having to worry about them having to go through Standard. The reason I bring this up is Scourge of Nel Toth. Screw Gurmag Angler, this dragon is your giant zombie of choice now! But sadly no. This thing isn't Modern legal, and I want to smack WotC for teasing me like this.
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
In any case, here's the 75 I'm bringing tonight:
1x Blood Crypt
1x Breeding Pool
1x Forest
1x Godless Shrine
1x Island
4x Misty Rainforest
1x Overgrown Tomb
3x Polluted Delta
1x Steam Vents
1x Stomping Ground
1x Swamp
1x Temple Garden
3x Verdant Catacombs
1x Watery Grave
4x Birds of Paradise
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
3x Gravecrawler
4x Hedron Crab
1x Malfegor
4x Rotting Rats
1x Skaab Ruinator
4x Stinkweed Imp
1x Vengeful Pharaoh
4x Vengevine
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Gnaw to the Bone
2x Lightning Bolt
4x Faithless Looting
1x Life from the Loam
2x Unburial Rites
2x Ancient Grudge
2x Golgari Charm
1x Batterskull
2x Darkblast
1x Godo, Bandit Warlord
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
2x Ray of Revelation
2x Thoughtseize
I know it looks odd in some spots, but I've had a fair amount of success with the build - at least when I regularly played; we'll see what happens after tonight having been gone a year. As stated earlier in the thread, this archetype really rewards experience and knowing your deck inside and out. I'm happy to report back on what happens tonight.
Here it is:
4 Vengevine
4 Bloodghast
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Gravecrawler
4 Gurmag Angler
4 Golgari Grave-troll
Spells:
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Grisly Salvage
2 Murderous Cut
4 Faithless Looting
1 Raven's Crime
1 Darkblast
2 Life from the Loam
4 Overgrown Tomb
2 Stomping Ground
2 Blood Crypt
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Copperline Gorge
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Swamp
2 Forest
3 Sudden Death
1 Darkblast
1 Flame Jab
1 Raven's Crime
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Tectonic Edge
2 Gnaw to the Bone
1 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Golgari Charm
1 Maelstrom Pulse
I was thinking of switching the Grave-trolls for Stinkweed Imp since he makes for an easy casting blocker. Also, the sideboard, I have no idea in the end. I, also, cannot decide between Grisly Salvage or Saytr Wayfinder. I feel like the instant speed is better than the body?
Grisly Salvage is better in my opinion. Grabbing the creature is often very important, especially when you can grab a angler and then are immediately dumping 3-4 cards of gas into the graveyard. Also the instant speed can thoroughly confuse your opponents. When you shock in abrupt decay mana and then they get to wonder what you are doing. The body on wayfinder is lackluster in my opinion. I'd rather have the option to pick a troll or angler off the top. Also I'd swap a loam mainboard and a gnaw sideboard so it's 1/1. Just my opinion.
Modern:
DredgeVine
EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima
Standard:
Also, I think the thing is that they can't make certain cards legal in a set, or at least don't to avoid huge banned lists, which is what they would have to do if they made cards legal from the Commander sets. Or imagine Modern with Sol Ring in it.
4 Vengevine
4 Bloodghast
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Gravecrawler
4 Gurmag Angler
4 Golgari Grave-troll
Spells:
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Grisly Salvage
2 Murderous Cut
4 Faithless Looting
1 Raven's Crime
1 Darkblast
1 Gnaw to the Bone
1 Life from the Loam
4 Overgrown Tomb
2 Stomping Ground
2 Blood Crypt
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Copperline Gorge
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Swamp
2 Forest
3 Sudden Death
1 Darkblast
1 Flame Jab
1 Raven's Crime
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Tectonic Edge
2 Gnaw to the Bone
1 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Golgari Charm
1 Maelstrom Pulse
So a little tournament report from this weekend. Played in a local Open Trial with 12 people and 5 rounds with a break to Top 4, unfortunately, I did not make it up to Top 4, I actually got there late and started off....
0-1: Spent to much time eating breakfast and a wreck blocked the street. Still can make Top 8 for prizes.
0-2: Mardu Weenie?: At first it wasn't so scary. He dropped Squadron Hawk and Blade Splicer. I only hit an Abrupt Decay and didn't get to go full nuts. Sorin, Visitor came down and Sword of Feast and Famine, and it started go down hill. Second Sword of F&F and a Mirran Crusader finished it off. Game 2, Mirran Crusader and Ajani Steadfast made the game go quick. Final thoughts: Mirran Crusader is kinda a problem since nothing kills it in the current build.
1-2: UW Control: This I knew going in that I had a really good chance for winning. He was going for a slower lock and I knew my creatures weren't going to be stopped. I got the explosive dredges and a ton of zombies and vines made quick work. Game 2 was even better since I could keep the Lolteth Troll on the board with regeneration, so that even if he Supreme Verdict'ed, I could regenerate through it and cast two Gravecrawlers and bring everything back.
1-3: Jund: We played a little bit between rounds and this was shaping up to be a really good matchup for me. Game 1, he hit me with a turn 1 IoK and pulled my Faithless Looting and it threw the whole game out of wack for me and ended up losing. Game 2 was the reverse on the play, Faithless Looting turn 1, Grisly Salvage turn 2, had to hold off with Gnaw to the Bone so I could get the second black source I needed to go all out and overrun him.
Game 3, I mull to 4. Looking at an okay hand with Blood Crypt, Grisly Salvage, Grave-troll, and Vengevine. I rip a Faithless off the top, draw into more B/R sources and go nowhere. He had a slow hand too and I was setting up to stall with Gnaw to the Bone, Raven's Crime and Life from the Loam, but never saw the green source.
2-3: Bye. Crud.
I went in kinda blind with the deck without playing against real people due to missing FNM last night and Game Night on Wednesday. Overall, I really like the deck, it is super resiliant in Modern and can just explode, get destroyed and explode again. Maybe some of the random 1 ofs were not right and might need some tweaking, but the overall core of the deck is solid. A suggestion that was made to me was playing a Flayer of the Hatebound or two either 1-1 in main and side. I think it has some consideration since it can really put the pain with Bloodghast, Gravecrawler, and Vengevine coming back so many times.
I think that it's fine that these aren't legal in Modern, since it goes againsts WOTC premise of modern of "Play enough standard and you'll have a modern deck!" Plus, there would be no other way to print a lot of legacy staples (Force of Will, Wasteland, etc) without warping the Modern format. I think they like how Scavenging Ooze worked out, where it had a test run in Legacy before being printed in a Standard set.
That said, Scourge of Nel Toth would do wonders for the deck. I've always thought that the one thing the deck was missing from exploding was another creature to consistently cast from the graveyard (Gravecrawler 5-8). My ideal version was something like "B for a 2/1 zombie. can't block. discard a card: you may cast this card from your graveyard until EOT." But, Dread Return as a creature is pretty awesome as well.
Glad to be back
I understand your arguments, but WotC can still make powerful cards for the Commander sets while also making the cards Modern legal. As for adressing cards in the Commander set that are reprints, it could be as simple as only new cards in the Commander sets are Modern legal. Any reprints have their legality in Modern determined on whether the set they were last printed is was Modern legal or not. Anyway that is neither here nor there, and I don't want to detract from the thread's topic too much
With any luck Shadows over Innistrad will give us a new goody to play with. I feel a creature that has an alternative cast mode similar to Dread Return like you suggested would be pretty good. Not to mention it could also make it more feasible to put Liliana, Heretical Healer in the deck. I've tried running her in my builds already, and unless you have a consistent way to sacrifice creatures she is pretty lackluster
What exactly does the Modern meta on MTGO look like? Knowing that will probably also make it better the judge your deck
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
As for Liliana I still want to try her. She can be useful in the match ups where they would usually take the suicide blood ghast and then they have to think. Ill give it a try when it's not a $25 standard card
Also feel like damnation could be an OK sideboard card. I find my worst match ups are the ones where people buff those small creatures that become big enough to threat and have stuff I can answer. I made my brother and ally deck and he hardly plays the game as we don't live together anymore but I saw him for thanksgiving and he used his deck for the first time ever. 1-4. I couldn't answer the creatures and the hardened scales so he would have massive first strike vigilance creatures I couldn't get through. Damnation could be what I want. Some of my other bad matchups include Melora collected ( small creatures getting overwhelming) and affinity (when I don't dark blast early they get big and killmuch).
Just a few thoughts.
Modern:
DredgeVine
EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima
Standard:
After the tournament results you've had are there any changes you would want to make to your list?
Is there anything you feel your deck might be missing to help at all with its consistency?
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
As for sideboarding wondering how Damnation and Memory's journey worked out for you? Sorry to bombard you with questions.
Modern:
DredgeVine
EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima
Standard:
I know in my list I've had great success with Damnation and it is in part due to also running Jace, Vryn's Prodigy which lets me flash it back if I dredge over it.
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
Gonna put an emphasis on the last thing you said there:
Mastering land drops in 4C can be a real pain.
This is the key to actually making the 4 colour mana base work. You need to know which order to fetch your lands in, and when you actually need to fetch lands. Let me grab the deck and give you some sample hands to give you an idea:
Polluted Delta, Abrupt Decay, Gravecrawler, Faithless Looting, Satyr Wayfinder, Verdant Catacombs, Hedron Crab
I love how this hand is actually the perfect example of the kind of situation you were talking about in your comment. You have a Faithless Looting you'd like to play early, as well as a Hedron Crab. You also want to make sure you have the mana to cast Abrupt Decay, which by proxy gives you access to Satyr Wayfinder. Now what lands do you grab?
Now with this hand, casting Looting turn 1 isn't actually top priority. Being able to get out the Crab, while also having the mana for Decay is the more important goal. This is because if you don't know your match up you don't want to auto lose to Twin while having a removal spell in your hand. It feels really bad, trust me.
So what you want to do is use the Delta turn 1 to grab either a Breeding Pool or Watery Grave. This makes it so turn 2 you can cast Hedron Crab while ensuring you get 2 landfall triggers off of your Catacombs and fetching with it.
Turn 2 you'll use the Catacombs to grab Blood Crypt (if you grabbed the Pool) or Stomping Ground (if you grabbed the Grave). This allows for you to also play Looting this turn.
So by the end of turn 2, without considering any cards you've drawn, you have all 4 colours of mana, and are able to cast your Abrupt Decay
Polluted Delta, Faithless Looting, Gurmag Angler, Verdant Catacombs, Overgrown Tomb, Satyr Wayfinder, Golgari Grave-Troll
So this hand doesn't have any blue cards you want to be casting, however it does have a Faithless Looting. In fact the presence of both Gurmag Angler and Golgari Grave-Troll means you want to cast the Looting on Turn 1. So what is the order of our fetches here?
Turn 1 you want to fetch a Blood Crypt with the Catacombs so you can cast Looting. Now why don't we grab a Steam Vents instead in case we draw a Hedron Crab? Angler is the reason why. You are going to discard the Grave-Troll with the Looting, and with how this hand looks, you'll want to dredge it on turn 2. As such, in order to make fetching blue preemptively for Crab to be worth it, it needs to be one of the top two cards of your deck. However, if in the top 8 cards of your deck, there is a Gravecrawler and a Vengevine you can have an explosive Turn 2 that leaves you with a 2/1, a 5/5, and a 4/3 hasty vegetable.
So as stated above, turn 1 you fetch a Crypt, cast your Looting, discarding Troll. If you happen to draw a blue card like Jace, Vryn's Prodigy you can still use the Delta to fetch a Breeding Pool which will still set you up with all four colours of mana.
Verdant Catacombs, Faithless Looting, Murderous Cut, Hedron Crab, Overgrown Tomb, Polluted Delta, Polluted Delta
I like how this hand looks similar to hand one, while actually being completely different. Like hand one, this hand has a Faithless Looting and Hedron Crab. However unlike hand one, you actually want to cast the Looting on turn one. This hand, while keep-able, is lacking action. As such you want to be able to dig early and quickly so you can actually do *****. You have enough lands in hand right now so you can discard any extras you draw.
Turn 1 you're going do use a Delta to fetch Steam Vents and cast Looting. The Vents also gives you the blue mana for Crab, which lets you get multiple triggers in a single turn off of playing it next turn. The bonus for this hand, is it actually isn't too bad against an aggressive opener because of that Murderous Cut. After turn 1 you're just going to use the fetch lands you have left to grab whatever colours you need for whatever you draw or mill over.
Hope these examples have helped. I actually drew up four hands, but the fourth one was just terrible, and would have been a hand I would have mulliganed anyway, so I decided not to include it. If you want some example of hands you should mulligan with a deck like this, feel free to let me know
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
Modern:
DredgeVine
EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima
Standard:
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
BGRDredgevineBGR
UWRJeskai ControlUWR
Pauper:
GMono-Green AggroG
MTGO Username: creamy99
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YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/Cherokee3210
Check it out for the latest testing, gameplay, and dailies!
If the Exalted ability on Noble Hierarch is negligible, would Elves of Deep Shadow not be better as a two of? Helps give you that extra mana for an explosive opening, while also being able to produce black mana itself.
Speaking of Scavenging Ooze, how do you like that card in the list? I didn't notice it when I first looked at the list you posted.
So basically no real differences from your standard Dredgevine list. Nice to know.
Also nice to note that Golgari Charm can be good against Elves until they get a lord or two out.
The problem I see with Memory's Journey is that you don't pick the cards that get shuffled back in. So it doesn't really do much against other graveyard decks.
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
Thought I do agree, it feels like you could have much better things in the sideboard.
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros