Careful study would bust modern wide open. We could probably drop green and just play izzet.
I would rather have a 1-drop creature as a discard outlet, something akin to Putrid Imp or Tireless Tribe. But I must admit, Noose Constrictor does an amazing job. I tested a few more games last night and I felt like he was one of my best value cards. Goblin Lore disappointed me a few times to the point that I will either reduce it's count it switch back to Reunion.
A careful study variant ie: Reckless study. 1red. Draw 2 discard 2. Flavor text, "suck my hollow one"
Or....
A cycling card where the cycling cost is discarding an additional card. Ie. Crazed disciple. 2 and a red. 2-2 haste. Cycling - discard a card. Flavor text. "vengevine has been banned in modern we're awfully sorry" Wizards of the coast.
Hey folks. Been playing the deck again the past few weeks. Both Modern FNMs I played in I split for top prizing in the last round. Here are some observations I've made, as well as my decklist:
I can't remember my sideboard at the moment, but it's nothing too special. Pretty standard hate cards for your most typical archetypes.
Now then, my first point is this:
GOBLIN LORE IS TERRIBLE
I also played 2-3 full Leagues in addition to these Modern FNMs, and after playing with the card, I want to burn every copy of Goblin Lore that I bought. The card is absolutely dreadful. I literally lost every single game where I cast it, and won every single game where I didn't see a single copy of it. Maybe it's because my luck just sucks, but that's the thing, I am not going to put my ability to win or lose a tournament any more in the hands of lady luck than it already is.
Here is the worst Goblin Lore I had, which was on Magic Online:
Hand: Hollow One x2, Flamewake Pheonix, 2x Vengevine
Draw: 3x Land
Discarded: 2x Hollow One, Flamewake Pheonix
Every time I played Goblin Lore, once it finished resolving my first thought was, "Oh god, what has I done." I 100% prefer having Gather the Pack.
Observation Number Two:
FLAMEWAKE PHOENIX IS AMAZING AND I AM AN IDIOT FOR NOT USING IT BEFORE
Many people will read that and go, "Well, yeah, duh!" But seriously. I don't know why I didn't have this in the deck for so long but it is simply amazing. It helps get you that extra little bit of damage you sometimes just need to close out a game. Be reborn from the ashes me little Angry Bird, there are piggies to kill
Observation Number Three:
BUSHWHACKER + BURNING-TREE IS JUST A STUPIDLY GOOD COMBO YOU SHOULD BE USING
I have had so many situation where my opponent is sitting at like 15 life thinking to themselves, "Even if they recur those 2 Vengevines in the graveyard, I have enough life where I can just untap and deal with them." WRONG! Burning-Tree, Bushwhacker, 15 you. GG No-Re. I'd offer you a drink but I already PUNCHED YOU IN THE FACE WITH A V-8. Sorry, the excitement got away from me a bit there. But seriously, even if you aren't recurring Vengevines, I've have plenty of games where casting a free Hollow One and then Surging Bushwhacker has caused me to win. Card is good, combo is good. Life is good
For people using black, have you considered Bone Picker? I was trying it as a 2x in a Shadow Vine list that I've been working on. Most of the time it put in some real work
Some really unfair things can be done with Call to the Netherworld. It's my main reason for trying out black. But green obviously has strengths in BTE and Hooting Mandrills.
Some examples:
-turn 1 play Looting/adept
-turn 2 play Neonate, sac & discard Vengevine.
-then play Bone Picker, Recur Vine
This is a nasty turn 2 board
Another play:
-turn 1 cycle Wraith
-then cast Neonate, sac & discard Netherworld, Madness returns Wraith
-cycle Wraith again, then cast any Hollows you might have drawn.
This is all turn 1
Bone Picker is also useful after a combat step when they either chump blocked or otherwise nuked one of our threats. It's amazing body for just B. It's a bit of nonbo with Adept just because she prefers you to spend all resources discarding cards before the attack step, whereas Bone Picker wants just one Mana open after combat. I found myself siding it out many times, but it was useful the times I did draw it.
Just came back from FNM, 3-1. Lost that match because of severe mana screw. I think 17 lands might not be enough, will try 18. Otherwise I am very satisfied! I like atarka's command and ghor-clan as combat tricks. I also agree that BTE + bushwacker is great. It won me many games where I did not even see vengevines and hollow ones. Its that good.
I was also considering flamewake phoenix (not a lot of flying in modern right now, good evasion), but the main reason preventing me from using it is GY hate. People usually flip out when they see vengevine and bring plenty of hate for game 2. With phoenix our decks become a bit more reliant on the GY and that's not optimal after sideboarding. Right now I like that heavy GY hate only act as minor speedbump and does not turn off my deck entirely.
Just came back from FNM, 3-1. Lost that match because of severe mana screw. I think 17 lands might not be enough, will try 18. Otherwise I am very satisfied! I like atarka's command and ghor-clan as combat tricks. I also agree that BTE + bushwacker is great. It won me many games where I did not even see vengevines and hollow ones. Its that good.
I was also considering flamewake phoenix (not a lot of flying in modern right now, good evasion), but the main reason preventing me from using it is GY hate. People usually flip out when they see vengevine and bring plenty of hate for game 2. With phoenix our decks become a bit more reliant on the GY and that's not optimal after sideboarding. Right now I like that heavy GY hate only act as minor speedbump and does not turn off my deck entirely.
How do you like Bomat Courier? I was using 4x in my Gruul version, but I cut to 2x since it wasnt always working out. I do like that it can help get back steam if we durdle around too much.
I would definitely say 18 lands is the minimum. I've even considered 19 because it's so rare that I get flooded and I usually require 2 Mana to go off.
On your other tech: Rampager seems like a super sweet inclusion that I haven't seen used it any lists yet. Can't be countered, it dodges IOK & Abrupt decay, and pre-revolt FP. And he's a reasonably costed beater if you just need to jam a threat.
What about Atarka? Is it stealing the game for you often enough? I would think your list lacks an additional discard outlet. Between Cathartic, Commune, Gather, Goblin Lore, it seems like the few non-creature slots in this deck are so critical
I do like Bomat. It is best if you can cast it early and attack at least 2-3 times with it. Its also surprising how much removal is thrown at this little guy. Between him and flameblade (and even vengevine), he's often the one being targeted by a bolt or a push. However later in the game, its just a 1/1 with no evasion, so it doesn't do much except trigger vengevine.
I included ghor-clan and atarka's because I often had problems finishing the game once my opponent had a few creatures on board. Rampager is a beast IMO. Bloodrush triggers flameblade, counts as a discard for hollow one, etc. I was always happy to see one. Atarka's DID steal a few games, but now that I think about it, in those situations a rampager would have probably worked too. I keep telling myself that the "can't gain life" might be relevant in some matchup, but that seems quite rare.
I've been thinking about adding a few more looting spells. I'll probably try with -2 atarka's +2 cathartic reunion.
The deck designer is the guy who first brought the Vengevine + Hollow One interaction to the forefront on the SCG circuit last year, and I'm glad to see he's still rocking and tinkering with the list. I personally prefer Lightning Axe over Roast since it's both instant speed, and can hit flying creatures.
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Modern Decks: UBG Lantern Control GBU BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
Chart a course seems like a terrible card for this deck. Don't we want to be both discarding cards and attacking with creatures every turn? And monastery swiftspear is outclassed by Flameblade adept. Thought Scour doesn't have much synergy here either... Just fueling delve?
Obviously the pilot is a skilled player, to take 11th at a large event like this. But some of the choices seem so wild to me. Stubborn Denial is probably the best blue card for this archetype
Chart a course seems like a terrible card for this deck. Don't we want to be both discarding cards and attacking with creatures every turn? And monastery swiftspear is outclassed by Flameblade adept. Thought Scour doesn't have much synergy here either... Just fueling delve?
Obviously the pilot is a skilled player, to take 11th at a large event like this. But some of the choices seem so wild to me. Stubborn Denial is probably the best blue card for this archetype
In his interview with the original list, JGM talks about sequencing with Swiftspear over Adept. Mainly, you want a creature with haste that you can play on turn two after you pitch your Vine to your t2 Neonate. Sometimes, you just draw spears and loots and thats totally fine as you're bashing in with 2/3s and sometimes 3/4s with haste.
His deck philosophy hasn't really changed in that he wants to be a turn 2 deck -- not a deploy a threat turn 1 and screw up your sequencing for the rest of the game deck.
This deck is also much more on an alternative gameplan strategy. Sometimes Hollow One just loots a bunch and dies. In JGM's recent list, you have more cards outside of the Vine/Hollow One engine that can get your opponent dead. Thought Scour is good here for the same reason Thought Scour is good with Gurmag Angler and Tasigur.
__________________________________________
Hazoret is some tech I've been on since Nov/Dec or so. It's very good in big aggro strategies like Vengevine or Zoo.
__________________________________________
I agree that Chart a Course isn't very good. It's not a great looter and you don't really want to be casting Divination in this deck, even if it's for 2 mana.
I think the reason Chart a Course is in the list is because it is just strictly better than Tormenting Voice. Voice is a card I'd tested out since sometimes you don't have the 2 card requisite for Cathartic Reunion, and honestly my biggest gripe with it was that I couldn't draw before discarding as I'd sometimes draw Vengevines I wanted in the bin. So in this Context Chart a Course is perfectly reasonable for the deck. It's a decent loot spell that can help us get cards we want in the graveyard. If you ever cast it after attacking, you're doing it wrong, trust me.
I agree with the rest of lugger's points.
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Modern Decks: UBG Lantern Control GBU BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
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Found this guy on twitch. He runs a list very similar to mine. There's a few differences but basically I use only 2x cathartic reunion instead of his 4 lores, and I chose to include bolts while he didn't
I have been testing some random cards (even Wild Cantor which was terrible by the way) that I thought might work in my Noose Constrictor build and I found Squee, Goblin Nabob to be quite a house as recurring it every turn improves your looting effects quite a lot and it's a safe card to discard and enable Hollow One without emptying your hand. Now I feel confident playing 4 Flamewake Phoenix as it's much easier to have a 4 power on board. This is my current build:
One thing I sometimes miss is a way to push through blockers, say you are facing Humans and they were able to put enough presence on board so that no player can attack as it would die next turn, in this kind of scenarios I think we are at disadvantage as every human they draw makes their presence bigger and we are not changing much the board even by playing a Hollow One or Vengevine, I've checked for any "acceptable" sideboard card with that effect and the best I could find is Gruul Charm which feels quite underwhelming. Has anyone else found a better card for this kind of effect? I might have to try Legion Loyalist again but when your opponent has a couple 7/7 or 8/8 Champion of the Parish it's not going to be enough
So this is the decklist I'm currently running and I'm wondering if I'm being too cute with Hollow Ones and should replace them with stinkweed imp/ golgari thugs.
I took this to my fnm and they have a 3 round match.
Round 1--Tron: lost 0-2 to him having natural tron both games and I punted game 2 by abrupt decay his chromatic star and not his O-stone... was able to apply early pressure but between tron and stone he cleared my threats and landed a wurmcoil engine and revealed his hand to be Ulamog, Karn, and another engine. Game 2 was tron again and he ended up slamming an ulamog and ceiling my lands after relic my graveyard. And then backed up with another wurmcoil. He ended up decking me with ulamog triggers..
Round 2-- Troll worship: this was against my good friend and we played this match up a lot at school and when we hung out. I won game 1 with T1 looting pitching ghast and vengevine and T2 was another looting into neonate, hollow one, trigger vengevine and ghast and blowing him out. Games 2 and 3 I didn't draw my hate to remove his auras,RIP, and his worship and he killed me by playing threats that stonewalled me into not attacking while he gavony township at end step and killed me with his 2 birds of paradice.
Game 3 was a bye since someone else dropped out after round 2...
The deck felt pretty consistent and was able to always get guys onto the field.
I have been testing some random cards (even Wild Cantor which was terrible by the way) that I thought might work in my Noose Constrictor build and I found Squee, Goblin Nabob to be quite a house as recurring it every turn improves your looting effects quite a lot and it's a safe card to discard and enable Hollow One without emptying your hand. Now I feel confident playing 4 Flamewake Phoenix as it's much easier to have a 4 power on board. This is my current build:
One thing I sometimes miss is a way to push through blockers, say you are facing Humans and they were able to put enough presence on board so that no player can attack as it would die next turn, in this kind of scenarios I think we are at disadvantage as every human they draw makes their presence bigger and we are not changing much the board even by playing a Hollow One or Vengevine, I've checked for any "acceptable" sideboard card with that effect and the best I could find is Gruul Charm which feels quite underwhelming. Has anyone else found a better card for this kind of effect? I might have to try Legion Loyalist again but when your opponent has a couple 7/7 or 8/8 Champion of the Parish it's not going to be enough
I think decks like Humans and GW value are the main reason we should apply a combo approach to our decks. Burst cards like the Emissary/Bushwhacker combo or Bloodghast if playing black. If humans has an opportunity to play their 4th or 5th creature, we've probably lost already. You could make a case for including Lightning Bolt maindeck, which some have forgone, but that doesn't help against GW value. Most of their creatures have 4 toughness.
So this is the decklist I'm currently running and I'm wondering if I'm being too cute with Hollow Ones and should replace them with stinkweed imp/ golgari thugs.
I took this to my fnm and they have a 3 round match.
Round 1--Tron: lost 0-2 to him having natural tron both games and I punted game 2 by abrupt decay his chromatic star and not his O-stone... was able to apply early pressure but between tron and stone he cleared my threats and landed a wurmcoil engine and revealed his hand to be Ulamog, Karn, and another engine. Game 2 was tron again and he ended up slamming an ulamog and ceiling my lands after relic my graveyard. And then backed up with another wurmcoil. He ended up decking me with ulamog triggers..
Round 2-- Troll worship: this was against my good friend and we played this match up a lot at school and when we hung out. I won game 1 with T1 looting pitching ghast and vengevine and T2 was another looting into neonate, hollow one, trigger vengevine and ghast and blowing him out. Games 2 and 3 I didn't draw my hate to remove his auras,RIP, and his worship and he killed me by playing threats that stonewalled me into not attacking while he gavony township at end step and killed me with his 2 birds of paradice.
Game 3 was a bye since someone else dropped out after round 2...
The deck felt pretty consistent and was able to always get guys onto the field.
I'd say drop the Gravecrawler & Lotleth Troll, replace with Street Wraith and Flamewake Phoenix and/or Gurmag Angler or maybe Hooting Mandrills. Abrupt decay is awkward in your maindeck but maybe 1 or 2 copies would be reasonable.
R/x Hollow decks may appear similar to the current dredge archetypes, but the deck plays pretty differently. Either drop your Hollows and Vines to add the dredge cards, or drop the dredge tools (like Lotleth Troll) and go for the hollow combo approach. Just my 2 cents...
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With the appearance of R/x Hollow One in the PT top 8..should we consider making a new primer for to encompass all Hollow One decks and maybe just merge this thread? TBH we can't really call this deck "Dredgevine" any more...since we don't dredge. It's a bit misleading
I think decks like Humans and GW value are the main reason we should apply a combo approach to our decks. Burst cards like the Emissary/Bushwhacker combo or Bloodghast if playing black. If humans has an opportunity to play their 4th or 5th creature, we've probably lost already. You could make a case for including Lightning Bolt maindeck, which some have forgone, but that doesn't help against GW value. Most of their creatures have 4 toughness.I think decks like Humans and GW value are the main reason we should apply a combo approach to our decks. Burst cards like the Emissary/Bushwhacker combo or Bloodghast if playing black. If humans has an opportunity to play their 4th or 5th creature, we've probably lost already. You could make a case for including Lightning Bolt maindeck, which some have forgone, but that doesn't help against GW value. Most of their creatures have 4 toughness.
You might be right, I've tried the emissary + bushwhacker version and it's nice when you pull it off but it didn't felt that reliable and these cards have no synergy with our discard outlets except when you are able to cast Burning-Tree Emissary into Goblin Lore into Hollow One.
Regarding creature decks, I used to play 2 Flamewake Phoenix instead of 4 so I could see myself getting damage through the air when the board is stalled as Mantis Rider doesn't usually grow bigger than a 4/4 so I can kill it with the help of Grim Lavamancer
I went with the dredge, I cut the 4 Hollow Ones and 3 Abrupt decays for 4 Stinkweed Imp and 3 Golgari Thug. I'll probably update with how I do next week since now I can practice with the changes for a whole week and see how it goes. I totally forgot about Flamewake Phoenix....
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I would rather have a 1-drop creature as a discard outlet, something akin to Putrid Imp or Tireless Tribe. But I must admit, Noose Constrictor does an amazing job. I tested a few more games last night and I felt like he was one of my best value cards. Goblin Lore disappointed me a few times to the point that I will either reduce it's count it switch back to Reunion.
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A careful study variant ie: Reckless study. 1red. Draw 2 discard 2. Flavor text, "suck my hollow one"
Or....
A cycling card where the cycling cost is discarding an additional card. Ie. Crazed disciple. 2 and a red. 2-2 haste. Cycling - discard a card. Flavor text. "vengevine has been banned in modern we're awfully sorry" Wizards of the coast.
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4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Wooded Foothills
3x Stomping Grounds
2x Copperline Gorge
5x Mountain
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
4x Flameblade Adept
4x Hollow One
4x Insolent Neonate
4x Reckless Bushwhacker
4x Street Wraith
4x Vengevine
2x Flamewake Phoenix
1x Grim Lavamancer
4x Faithless Looting
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Goblin Lore
I can't remember my sideboard at the moment, but it's nothing too special. Pretty standard hate cards for your most typical archetypes.
Now then, my first point is this:
GOBLIN LORE IS TERRIBLE
I also played 2-3 full Leagues in addition to these Modern FNMs, and after playing with the card, I want to burn every copy of Goblin Lore that I bought. The card is absolutely dreadful. I literally lost every single game where I cast it, and won every single game where I didn't see a single copy of it. Maybe it's because my luck just sucks, but that's the thing, I am not going to put my ability to win or lose a tournament any more in the hands of lady luck than it already is.
Here is the worst Goblin Lore I had, which was on Magic Online:
Hand: Hollow One x2, Flamewake Pheonix, 2x Vengevine
Draw: 3x Land
Discarded: 2x Hollow One, Flamewake Pheonix
Every time I played Goblin Lore, once it finished resolving my first thought was, "Oh god, what has I done." I 100% prefer having Gather the Pack.
Observation Number Two:
FLAMEWAKE PHOENIX IS AMAZING AND I AM AN IDIOT FOR NOT USING IT BEFORE
Many people will read that and go, "Well, yeah, duh!" But seriously. I don't know why I didn't have this in the deck for so long but it is simply amazing. It helps get you that extra little bit of damage you sometimes just need to close out a game. Be reborn from the ashes me little Angry Bird, there are piggies to kill
Observation Number Three:
BUSHWHACKER + BURNING-TREE IS JUST A STUPIDLY GOOD COMBO YOU SHOULD BE USING
I have had so many situation where my opponent is sitting at like 15 life thinking to themselves, "Even if they recur those 2 Vengevines in the graveyard, I have enough life where I can just untap and deal with them." WRONG! Burning-Tree, Bushwhacker, 15 you. GG No-Re. I'd offer you a drink but I already PUNCHED YOU IN THE FACE WITH A V-8. Sorry, the excitement got away from me a bit there. But seriously, even if you aren't recurring Vengevines, I've have plenty of games where casting a free Hollow One and then Surging Bushwhacker has caused me to win. Card is good, combo is good. Life is good
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
4 Death's shadow
4 Flameblade adept
4 Insolent neonate
4 Hollow one
4 Street Wraith
4 Vengevine
4 Gurmag angler
2 Bone Picker
4 Faithless Looting
4 Cathartic Reunion
4 Call to the Netherworld
Lands:
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Verdant catacombs
3 Blood Crypt
1 Overgrown tomb
1 Stomping Ground
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
Some really unfair things can be done with Call to the Netherworld. It's my main reason for trying out black. But green obviously has strengths in BTE and Hooting Mandrills.
Some examples:
-turn 1 play Looting/adept
-turn 2 play Neonate, sac & discard Vengevine.
-then play Bone Picker, Recur Vine
This is a nasty turn 2 board
Another play:
-turn 1 cycle Wraith
-then cast Neonate, sac & discard Netherworld, Madness returns Wraith
-cycle Wraith again, then cast any Hollows you might have drawn.
This is all turn 1
Bone Picker is also useful after a combat step when they either chump blocked or otherwise nuked one of our threats. It's amazing body for just B. It's a bit of nonbo with Adept just because she prefers you to spend all resources discarding cards before the attack step, whereas Bone Picker wants just one Mana open after combat. I found myself siding it out many times, but it was useful the times I did draw it.
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2x Atarka's Command
3x Lightning Bolt
Sorcery 4
4x Faithless Looting
Creature 34
2x Bomat Courier
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
4x Flameblade Adept
2x Ghor-Clan Rampager
2x Grim Lavamancer
4x Hollow One
4x Insolent Neonate
4x Reckless Bushwhacker
4x Street Wraith
4x Vengevine
2x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained Mire
3x Copperline Gorge
2x Mountain
2x Stomping Ground
4x Wooded Foothills
2x Ancient Grudge
2x Collective Brutality
2x Destructive Revelry
1x Driven / Despair
1x Feed the Clan
2x Kari Zev's Expertise
1x Nihil Spellbomb
2x Rakdos Charm
2x Terminate
Just came back from FNM, 3-1. Lost that match because of severe mana screw. I think 17 lands might not be enough, will try 18. Otherwise I am very satisfied! I like atarka's command and ghor-clan as combat tricks. I also agree that BTE + bushwacker is great. It won me many games where I did not even see vengevines and hollow ones. Its that good.
I was also considering flamewake phoenix (not a lot of flying in modern right now, good evasion), but the main reason preventing me from using it is GY hate. People usually flip out when they see vengevine and bring plenty of hate for game 2. With phoenix our decks become a bit more reliant on the GY and that's not optimal after sideboarding. Right now I like that heavy GY hate only act as minor speedbump and does not turn off my deck entirely.
How do you like Bomat Courier? I was using 4x in my Gruul version, but I cut to 2x since it wasnt always working out. I do like that it can help get back steam if we durdle around too much.
I would definitely say 18 lands is the minimum. I've even considered 19 because it's so rare that I get flooded and I usually require 2 Mana to go off.
On your other tech: Rampager seems like a super sweet inclusion that I haven't seen used it any lists yet. Can't be countered, it dodges IOK & Abrupt decay, and pre-revolt FP. And he's a reasonably costed beater if you just need to jam a threat.
What about Atarka? Is it stealing the game for you often enough? I would think your list lacks an additional discard outlet. Between Cathartic, Commune, Gather, Goblin Lore, it seems like the few non-creature slots in this deck are so critical
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I included ghor-clan and atarka's because I often had problems finishing the game once my opponent had a few creatures on board. Rampager is a beast IMO. Bloodrush triggers flameblade, counts as a discard for hollow one, etc. I was always happy to see one. Atarka's DID steal a few games, but now that I think about it, in those situations a rampager would have probably worked too. I keep telling myself that the "can't gain life" might be relevant in some matchup, but that seems quite rare.
I've been thinking about adding a few more looting spells. I'll probably try with -2 atarka's +2 cathartic reunion.
Thanks for the feedback!
3x Snow-Covered Mountain
3x Bloodstained Mire
3x Scalding Tarn
3x Wooded Foothills
2x Steam Vents
2x Stomping Ground
1x Copperline Gorge
1x Spirebluff Canal
Creatures - 27
4x Hollow One
4x Hooting Mandrills
4x Insolent Neonate
4x Monastery Swiftspear
4x Street Wraith
4x Vengevine
3x Flamewake Phoenix
4x Faithless Looting
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Thought Scour
2x Cathartic Reunion
2x Chart a Course
3x Leyline of the Void
2x Ancient Grudge
2x Feed the Clan
2x Hazoret the Fervent
2x Roast
2x Stubborn Denial
1x Become Immense
1x Grim Lavamancer
The deck designer is the guy who first brought the Vengevine + Hollow One interaction to the forefront on the SCG circuit last year, and I'm glad to see he's still rocking and tinkering with the list. I personally prefer Lightning Axe over Roast since it's both instant speed, and can hit flying creatures.
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
Obviously the pilot is a skilled player, to take 11th at a large event like this. But some of the choices seem so wild to me. Stubborn Denial is probably the best blue card for this archetype
Draft My Cube!
In his interview with the original list, JGM talks about sequencing with Swiftspear over Adept. Mainly, you want a creature with haste that you can play on turn two after you pitch your Vine to your t2 Neonate. Sometimes, you just draw spears and loots and thats totally fine as you're bashing in with 2/3s and sometimes 3/4s with haste.
His deck philosophy hasn't really changed in that he wants to be a turn 2 deck -- not a deploy a threat turn 1 and screw up your sequencing for the rest of the game deck.
This deck is also much more on an alternative gameplan strategy. Sometimes Hollow One just loots a bunch and dies. In JGM's recent list, you have more cards outside of the Vine/Hollow One engine that can get your opponent dead. Thought Scour is good here for the same reason Thought Scour is good with Gurmag Angler and Tasigur.
__________________________________________
Hazoret is some tech I've been on since Nov/Dec or so. It's very good in big aggro strategies like Vengevine or Zoo.
__________________________________________
I agree that Chart a Course isn't very good. It's not a great looter and you don't really want to be casting Divination in this deck, even if it's for 2 mana.
I agree with the rest of lugger's points.
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
4 Flameblade Adept
4 Insolent Neonate
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Noose Constrictor
4 Flamewake Phoenix
2 Squee, Goblin Nabob
4 Vengevine
4 Hollow One
2 Hooting Mandrills
4 Street Wraith
4 Faithless Looting
4 Goblin Lore
Lands
1 Forest
3 Mountain
3 Stomping Ground
2 Copperline Gorge
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Ravenous Trap
2 Dismember
3 Ancient Grudge
2 Destructive Revelry
2 Heroic Intervention
2 Blood Moon
2 Gnaw to the Bone
One thing I sometimes miss is a way to push through blockers, say you are facing Humans and they were able to put enough presence on board so that no player can attack as it would die next turn, in this kind of scenarios I think we are at disadvantage as every human they draw makes their presence bigger and we are not changing much the board even by playing a Hollow One or Vengevine, I've checked for any "acceptable" sideboard card with that effect and the best I could find is Gruul Charm which feels quite underwhelming. Has anyone else found a better card for this kind of effect? I might have to try Legion Loyalist again but when your opponent has a couple 7/7 or 8/8 Champion of the Parish it's not going to be enough
I took this to my fnm and they have a 3 round match.
Round 1--Tron: lost 0-2 to him having natural tron both games and I punted game 2 by abrupt decay his chromatic star and not his O-stone... was able to apply early pressure but between tron and stone he cleared my threats and landed a wurmcoil engine and revealed his hand to be Ulamog, Karn, and another engine. Game 2 was tron again and he ended up slamming an ulamog and ceiling my lands after relic my graveyard. And then backed up with another wurmcoil. He ended up decking me with ulamog triggers..
Round 2-- Troll worship: this was against my good friend and we played this match up a lot at school and when we hung out. I won game 1 with T1 looting pitching ghast and vengevine and T2 was another looting into neonate, hollow one, trigger vengevine and ghast and blowing him out. Games 2 and 3 I didn't draw my hate to remove his auras,RIP, and his worship and he killed me by playing threats that stonewalled me into not attacking while he gavony township at end step and killed me with his 2 birds of paradice.
Game 3 was a bye since someone else dropped out after round 2...
The deck felt pretty consistent and was able to always get guys onto the field.
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
2x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Blooming Marsh
1x Forest
3x Overgrown Tomb
2x Swamp
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Gravecrawler
4x Hollow One
4x Insolent Neonate
4x Lotleth Troll
4x Prized Amalgam
4x Vengevine
3x Abrupt Decay
4x Faithless Looting
1x maelstrom pulse
2x Destructive Revelry
2x Collective Brutality
3x Fatal Push
4x Leyline of the Void
3x Thoughtseize
I think decks like Humans and GW value are the main reason we should apply a combo approach to our decks. Burst cards like the Emissary/Bushwhacker combo or Bloodghast if playing black. If humans has an opportunity to play their 4th or 5th creature, we've probably lost already. You could make a case for including Lightning Bolt maindeck, which some have forgone, but that doesn't help against GW value. Most of their creatures have 4 toughness.
I'd say drop the Gravecrawler & Lotleth Troll, replace with Street Wraith and Flamewake Phoenix and/or Gurmag Angler or maybe Hooting Mandrills. Abrupt decay is awkward in your maindeck but maybe 1 or 2 copies would be reasonable.
R/x Hollow decks may appear similar to the current dredge archetypes, but the deck plays pretty differently. Either drop your Hollows and Vines to add the dredge cards, or drop the dredge tools (like Lotleth Troll) and go for the hollow combo approach. Just my 2 cents...
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With the appearance of R/x Hollow One in the PT top 8..should we consider making a new primer for to encompass all Hollow One decks and maybe just merge this thread? TBH we can't really call this deck "Dredgevine" any more...since we don't dredge. It's a bit misleading
Draft My Cube!
You might be right, I've tried the emissary + bushwhacker version and it's nice when you pull it off but it didn't felt that reliable and these cards have no synergy with our discard outlets except when you are able to cast Burning-Tree Emissary into Goblin Lore into Hollow One.
Regarding creature decks, I used to play 2 Flamewake Phoenix instead of 4 so I could see myself getting damage through the air when the board is stalled as Mantis Rider doesn't usually grow bigger than a 4/4 so I can kill it with the help of Grim Lavamancer