So, we finally got the second Gravecrawler we've been waiting for all this time: Squee, the Immortal
Is this good enough to warrant going back to a dredge variant with Prized Amalgams, etc.? I'm certainly intrigued, although fairly certain I'll stick to my current Hollow One list.
I think three Mana is pretty steep. But I do like the flavor
I am pretty new to the modern Dredge(vine) archetype and thinking about playing the deck at my fnm.
Is there a big difference between the playstyle of dredge and dredgevine?
I am pretty new to the modern Dredge(vine) archetype and thinking about playing the deck at my fnm.
Is there a big difference between the playstyle of dredge and dredgevine?
There are several problems with both of those. First is that you can only discard one card per turn for each. The card to power-gained ratio is better than Noose Constructor, but the fact is that noose can dump your whole hand if need be.
And the Furyblade wouldn't work at all with Flamewake Phoenix. She needs to be in the graveyard at the beginning of combat, but the Furyblade doesn't allow us to pitch a card until it's too late to trigger the Phoenix.
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Edit: there is a bit of play style difference between dredge and Hollow Vine. Mainly, Vengevine decks don't use dredge cards anymore. Vine hasn't the potential to be faster but dredge has more consistency
MtgGoldfish played a similar version a few weeks ago. The deck looked really fun to play but a bit inconsistent. The deck also goes all-in on bridge from below and does not have any way to recover from a board wipe...
Yeah after playing The bridge version myself a bit, it's definitely not as consistent. I feel like there is potential here but the right list (or cards) haven't quite surfaced yet. I do enjoy some of the synergy, such as casting a free X=0, getting a token or two, and then casting a surge cost goblin with my only two Mana. I feel like this deck wants dredge cards instead of Hollow one though. But then it feels slower...
Overall I think it's really hard to break the core of the Vengevine version. I've tweaked my list to remove some of the 1s and 2s to just streamline the list and I'd say I've been better off. I really like Hooting Mandrills here and I couldn't myself going back to running less than 4. Here is my list:
I keep switching back and forth between Cathartic Reunion and Goblin Lore. Lately I've been lucky with Lore but I wonder if the inconsistency will come back to spite me. I'll be taking this deck to GP Vegas so I'm trying to work out the last few kinks.
Anyone have input on Reunion vs. Lore in a version like this?
I was curious about the variant that runs ballista, hangarback walker, endless one and bridge. Does the deck run completely different or is it anymore competitive give or take?
I don't think the random discard does work as well in that version. It's important to hold onto your free robots and bin your bridges. The play is to discard your bridges and Vines, then play free robots that die on impact, trigger Vines and make zombies. They also work great with Reckless Bushwhacker because they are still considered spells so they enable Surge cost. It's a fun version but more of an all-in combo approach. For reference, here is the list that I tried (albeit only for a few days online)
The games did not go well. The amount of times I just whiff on the combo felt like close to 50%.. that happens sometimes in my regular version but just more rarely. If you can't get any Bridges in the bin, then the robots are completely useless. Sure they can trigger Vines, but unless you have 2+ Vines in the bin, you aren't about to waste two robots just bringing back one Vine. It's a cute combo that I was initially excited to try but has not proved to excel over any other version that I've tried
I keep switching back and forth between Cathartic Reunion and Goblin Lore. Lately I've been lucky with Lore but I wonder if the inconsistency will come back to spite me. I'll be taking this deck to GP Vegas so I'm trying to work out the last few kinks.
Anyone have input on Reunion vs. Lore in a version like this?
I run a very similar list and I really dislike lore. Sequencing bte into bushwacker is crucial, and lore messes up with that. If you want to play lore, you need to build your deck around it to take advantage of the random discard (4x bloodghast and possibly 4x phoenix too).
The problem with reunion is that it is a bit slow, and is also an horrible topdeck. Right now I'm only running 2 and it feels alright.
I keep switching back and forth between Cathartic Reunion and Goblin Lore. Lately I've been lucky with Lore but I wonder if the inconsistency will come back to spite me. I'll be taking this deck to GP Vegas so I'm trying to work out the last few kinks.
Anyone have input on Reunion vs. Lore in a version like this?
I run a very similar list and I really dislike lore. Sequencing bte into bushwacker is crucial, and lore messes up with that. If you want to play lore, you need to build your deck around it to take advantage of the random discard (4x bloodghast and possibly 4x phoenix too).
The problem with reunion is that it is a bit slow, and is also an horrible topdeck. Right now I'm only running 2 and it feels alright.
Thanks for the feedback. So what are you running for non-creature spells? Lightning bolts? Any other discard enablers?
I've experimented a bit, I tried atarka's command and ghor-clan rampager, both of which I really liked. However bolt is just too good to pass up IMO. The interaction really helps in some matchup (getting rid of electromancer vs storm, killing arbor elf vs ponza, etc etc). That's also why I have 2 lavamancer in the main.
For the discard, 4x neonate, 4x faithless, 4x street wraith, 2x cathartic. In a RB shell, the discard is super important, but with RG I've won many games with just good sequencing of flameblade / BTE / bushwhacker.
Rampager is another card I would really like to try. It seems very synergistic here.
-Cannot be hit by IOK while in your hand
-Cannot be countered
-Counts as a discarded card for Hollow and Adept
-both pumps and tramples, kind of like Become Immense & TBR built into one card
Flameblade Adept has proven to be a strong turn 1 play, since just about every attack she will get at least 1 buff and often more. If I don't play her on turn 1 she is usually just discarded when I don't have anything else to pitch for Looting. On average I think she gets in for more damage than a guide could because she has menace. And there's always those random times when she's the only other creature spell I have and she helps me trigger Vengevine or Surge Bushwhacker.
it's been a while since the last time i play this deck and with the new card coming out i think its time to dig up our beloved vegetable.
here's my starting list once stitcher's supplier come out. with that card, we now have 12 turn-1 plays that will start the dredgevine engine. (neonate / looting / supplier)
it's been a while since the last time i play this deck and with the new card coming out i think its time to dig up our beloved vegetable.
here's my starting list once stitcher's supplier come out. with that card, we now have 12 turn-1 plays that will start the dredgevine engine. (neonate / looting / supplier)
Looking at your list i can buy into the Angler if the dredge plan works out but not really the Death's Shadows. Honestly sems you'd be completely reliant on the opponent to grow them at all. Any particular game plan there? If not i'd cut them to return the gravecallers. Stitcher has a lot of synergy with their zombie typing thats not to be underrated for Vengevine triggers.
Looking at your list i can buy into the Angler if the dredge plan works out but not really the Death's Shadows. Honestly sems you'd be completely reliant on the opponent to grow them at all. Any particular game plan there? If not i'd cut them to return the gravecallers. Stitcher has a lot of synergy with their zombie typing thats not to be underrated for Vengevine triggers.
the life requirement will be accomplished by the lands, dredgevines manabase is a bit greedy, it's not uncommon to do fetch-shock in the 1st 2-turns of the game.
with stitcher's as another turn-1 play, we want to have either Bor R on turn-1 and "possibly" a G on turn-2 for gather the pack. worst case if it's really "needed" we may cast death's shadow as a 0/0 just to meet the vengevine requirement, it still count as a cast. i believe as the game progress, death's shadow will become more of a threat than gravecrawler.
this list is still waiting to be tested as core 2019 comes out.
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I think three Mana is pretty steep. But I do like the flavor
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I am pretty new to the modern Dredge(vine) archetype and thinking about playing the deck at my fnm.
Is there a big difference between the playstyle of dredge and dredgevine?
There are several problems with both of those. First is that you can only discard one card per turn for each. The card to power-gained ratio is better than Noose Constructor, but the fact is that noose can dump your whole hand if need be.
And the Furyblade wouldn't work at all with Flamewake Phoenix. She needs to be in the graveyard at the beginning of combat, but the Furyblade doesn't allow us to pitch a card until it's too late to trigger the Phoenix.
----
Edit: there is a bit of play style difference between dredge and Hollow Vine. Mainly, Vengevine decks don't use dredge cards anymore. Vine hasn't the potential to be faster but dredge has more consistency
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Hangarback Walker, Endless One, Bridge From Below....
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MtgGoldfish played a similar version a few weeks ago. The deck looked really fun to play but a bit inconsistent. The deck also goes all-in on bridge from below and does not have any way to recover from a board wipe...
I still prefer the "normal" version.
Overall I think it's really hard to break the core of the Vengevine version. I've tweaked my list to remove some of the 1s and 2s to just streamline the list and I'd say I've been better off. I really like Hooting Mandrills here and I couldn't myself going back to running less than 4. Here is my list:
4 Flameblade Adept
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Reckless Bushwhacker
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Street Wraith
4 Hollow One
4 Vengevine
4 Hooting Mandrills
2 Flamewake Phoenix
4 Faithless Looting
4 Goblin Lore
Lands (18):
4 Copperline Gorge
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Stomping Ground
3 Mountain
1 Forest
3 Blood Moon
3 Ancient grudge
2 Gnaw to the Bone
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Lightning Axe
1 Heroic intervention
I keep switching back and forth between Cathartic Reunion and Goblin Lore. Lately I've been lucky with Lore but I wonder if the inconsistency will come back to spite me. I'll be taking this deck to GP Vegas so I'm trying to work out the last few kinks.
Anyone have input on Reunion vs. Lore in a version like this?
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For Mandrills, I usually only cast one per game, and if I draw multiples he becomes an easy discard code for Looting
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4 Street Wraith
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Reckless Bushwhacker
4 Hollow one
4 Vengevine
4 Hangarback Walker
4 Endless One
2 Walking Ballista
4 Cathartic Reunion
4 Faithless Looting
4 Bridge From Below
Lands (18):
18 Lands
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Also, sorry for not reading above lol!
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I run a very similar list and I really dislike lore. Sequencing bte into bushwacker is crucial, and lore messes up with that. If you want to play lore, you need to build your deck around it to take advantage of the random discard (4x bloodghast and possibly 4x phoenix too).
The problem with reunion is that it is a bit slow, and is also an horrible topdeck. Right now I'm only running 2 and it feels alright.
Thanks for the feedback. So what are you running for non-creature spells? Lightning bolts? Any other discard enablers?
Draft My Cube!
I've experimented a bit, I tried atarka's command and ghor-clan rampager, both of which I really liked. However bolt is just too good to pass up IMO. The interaction really helps in some matchup (getting rid of electromancer vs storm, killing arbor elf vs ponza, etc etc). That's also why I have 2 lavamancer in the main.
For the discard, 4x neonate, 4x faithless, 4x street wraith, 2x cathartic. In a RB shell, the discard is super important, but with RG I've won many games with just good sequencing of flameblade / BTE / bushwhacker.
-Cannot be hit by IOK while in your hand
-Cannot be countered
-Counts as a discarded card for Hollow and Adept
-both pumps and tramples, kind of like Become Immense & TBR built into one card
Draft My Cube!
Draft My Cube!
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/843816#paper
it's been a while since the last time i play this deck and with the new card coming out i think its time to dig up our beloved vegetable.
here's my starting list once stitcher's supplier come out. with that card, we now have 12 turn-1 plays that will start the dredgevine engine. (neonate / looting / supplier)
2x Blackcleave Cliffs
3x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Mountain
2x Overgrown Tomb
2x Swamp
4x Wooded Foothills
1x Stomping Ground
4x Stitcher's Supplier
2x Grim Lavamancer
4x Death's Shadow
4x Insolent Neonate
3x Gurmag Angler
4x Stinkweed Imp
4x Vengevine
1x Abrupt Decay
1x Abrade
4x Faithless Looting
2x Fatal Push
1x Deadly Allure
4x Gather the Pack
2x Lightning Axe
i've drop gravecrawler but increased the number of 1-drop to help vengevine and have a massive creatures in the form of death's shadow, vengevine, and gurmag angler.
i'm still pondering whether to add it (gravecrawler) back, but as of now, this will be my starting point in reviving my dredgevine deck.
Looking at your list i can buy into the Angler if the dredge plan works out but not really the Death's Shadows. Honestly sems you'd be completely reliant on the opponent to grow them at all. Any particular game plan there? If not i'd cut them to return the gravecallers. Stitcher has a lot of synergy with their zombie typing thats not to be underrated for Vengevine triggers.
the life requirement will be accomplished by the lands, dredgevines manabase is a bit greedy, it's not uncommon to do fetch-shock in the 1st 2-turns of the game.
with stitcher's as another turn-1 play, we want to have either Bor R on turn-1 and "possibly" a G on turn-2 for gather the pack. worst case if it's really "needed" we may cast death's shadow as a 0/0 just to meet the vengevine requirement, it still count as a cast. i believe as the game progress, death's shadow will become more of a threat than gravecrawler.
this list is still waiting to be tested as core 2019 comes out.