Flame slash and Roast are probably going to be your best answer to Tarmogoyf (in a R/G deck). Dismember also does a pretty good job, but is terrible against the really aggressive decks.
Is everyone playing sylvan scying instead of expedition map now?
I have problems against fast aggro decks (infect, zoo,..).
Esspecially Goyfs are a huge Problem to deal with.
Any Ideas?
I originally didnt think that Sylvan Scrying would be necessary given Stirrings/Talismans but I think 2x is quite useful (i dont think more than this is helpful as it adds too much air to the deck) - helps improved consistency of beating the curve and also finding stuff like cavern (counterspell decks), ghost quarter (Tron, wolf run (late game) or wastes (blood moon).
I play 2x Dismember (to deal with goyfs, other annoying fatties - kalitias etc..) and as has been noted relics are a must from the sb to deal with goyf/ooze or whatever. Usually we can outclass goyf's anyway - a big endless one, smasher, breaker or block/bolt..
I would love to see his suggestions too. Does he still like RG? I'm in the middle of trading for it and I got everything but the mana base. Does he suggest another color or cards? Would love to know more.
Goyfs, because he wants another early threat, which can "remove" opp Goyfs, since those guys are most of the times 5/6 due to Artefacts and PW. Ravine was overperforming, since he was probably thread light, hence, the second one. Not happy with the manabase, since it offered to little utility (nothing like Eye to tutor out creatures, not enough manlands,...), hence a shift towards the Sanctums to be able to "tutor" up creatures in the mid to late game.
SB is a rough scratch, since he didn't need the Artefact hate at all (no Affinity and co), while he want some form of gas in the SB (Harmonize).
Edit says: Funny enough, my MD version is really close to that list, only my manabase is different (no Groves, no Sanctums) and a Dismember instead of the Flame Slash. Through, I have to get some testing in first.
Greetings,
Kathal
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Is everyone playing sylvan scying instead of expedition map now?
I have problems against fast aggro decks (infect, zoo,..).
Esspecially Goyfs are a huge Problem to deal with.
Any Ideas?
I think people were always on Sylvan Scrying over Expedition Map just because earlier versions seemed to still have 1-2 Chalice of the Void int he 75. Map is great when you get it on turn 1, but there is almost not as much urgency to be pulling up specific lands now. As long as you are getting an Eldrazi Temple before turn 3 you are going to be playing ahead of the curve of your opponent. Between the 6-8 copies of Ancient Stirrings and Sylvan Scrying that are played, this isn't that much of a problem (at least I've found).
I would love to see his suggestions too. Does he still like RG? I'm in the middle of trading for it and I got everything but the mana base. Does he suggest another color or cards? Would love to know more.
Goyfs, because he wants another early threat, which can "remove" opp Goyfs, since those guys are most of the times 5/6 due to Artefacts and PW. Ravine was overperforming, since he was probably thread light, hence, the second one. Not happy with the manabase, since it offered to little utility (nothing like Eye to tutor out creatures, not enough manlands,...), hence a shift towards the Sanctums to be able to "tutor" up creatures in the mid to late game.
SB is a rough scratch, since he didn't need the Artefact hate at all (no Affinity and co), while he want some form of gas in the SB (Harmonize).
Edit says: Funny enough, my MD version is really close to that list, only my manabase is different (no Groves, no Sanctums) and a Dismember instead of the Flame Slash. Through, I have to get some testing in first.
Greetings,
Kathal
To be honest this list looks incredibly loose. 3 Tarmo's - why not 4? Tarmo's dont work very well in this shell anyway. I dont see how opposing Tarmo's are a problem for this deck - it is designed to go bigger than Tarmo - that is the point of Eldrazi. Endless One is far superior in this slot as they are often bigger then Tarmo - dismember opposing tarmo's and relic them g2/3. Harmonize? Play sea gate wreckage for gas - at least you can tutor for it. The numbers of cards are just plain strange - 3 talismans? Raging Ravine also seems super loose. Id be surprised to see this list do well in a competitive setting..
To be honest this list looks incredibly loose. 3 Tarmo's - why not 4? Tarmo's dont work very well in this shell anyway. I dont see how opposing Tarmo's are a problem for this deck - it is designed to go bigger than Tarmo - that is the point of Eldrazi. Endless One is far superior in this slot as they are often bigger then Tarmo - dismember opposing tarmo's and relic them g2/3. Harmonize? Play sea gate wreckage for gas - at least you can tutor for it. The numbers of cards are just plain strange - 3 talismans? Raging Ravine also seems super loose. Id be surprised to see this list do well in a competitive setting..
That is Gerry T. list
Greetings,
Kathal
PS: Do not underestimate Ravine in that shell, it is awesome.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I would love to see his suggestions too. Does he still like RG? I'm in the middle of trading for it and I got everything but the mana base. Does he suggest another color or cards? Would love to know more.
Goyfs, because he wants another early threat, which can "remove" opp Goyfs, since those guys are most of the times 5/6 due to Artefacts and PW. Ravine was overperforming, since he was probably thread light, hence, the second one. Not happy with the manabase, since it offered to little utility (nothing like Eye to tutor out creatures, not enough manlands,...), hence a shift towards the Sanctums to be able to "tutor" up creatures in the mid to late game.
SB is a rough scratch, since he didn't need the Artefact hate at all (no Affinity and co), while he want some form of gas in the SB (Harmonize).
Edit says: Funny enough, my MD version is really close to that list, only my manabase is different (no Groves, no Sanctums) and a Dismember instead of the Flame Slash. Through, I have to get some testing in first.
Greetings,
Kathal
To be honest this list looks incredibly loose. 3 Tarmo's - why not 4? Tarmo's dont work very well in this shell anyway. I dont see how opposing Tarmo's are a problem for this deck - it is designed to go bigger than Tarmo - that is the point of Eldrazi. Endless One is far superior in this slot as they are often bigger then Tarmo - dismember opposing tarmo's and relic them g2/3. Harmonize? Play sea gate wreckage for gas - at least you can tutor for it. The numbers of cards are just plain strange - 3 talismans? Raging Ravine also seems super loose. Id be surprised to see this list do well in a competitive setting..
I feel quite different on it. If I were to go through the list part by part then....
This seems pretty 'standard' to me. The only thing that really jumps out is the 3 Tarmogoyf. In this deck you are going to have some instants and sorceries in the graveyard, maybe a land, and a creature by the end of the game. This puts the goyf at most likely a 4/5, and it is a bit vulnerable if you play it on the early turns. You are going to half rely on the opponent to help grow it too. I like it as the best non-eldrazi creature we could really be playing, and it's better than something like Endless One because it doesn't die off of a Matter Reshaper flip. The only other thing I'd look at would be -1 World Breaker because with Ancient Stirrings you are going to be grabbing him at some point. Perhaps with the prevalence of Path to Exile playing more than 2 is he right call. 3 is a good number to start the deck off with.
4 Bolts and 4 Stirrings are auto-includes I think we can agree. Flame Slash in nice as that heavy creature removal for things like Restoration Angle, merfolk lords, opposing goyfs, livinf end, etc... Could 2 be better to ensure nothing is living on the opponents board? probably. That's a meta call I'd say. If you have a lot of creatures you're facing then add a second one. 3 Talismans and 3 Scrying is better than 4/4 to avoid getting flooded with dead cards, which people were playing earlier. I'd even say doing something like 3/2 can be fine because you want the land from your deck, and you'll have 6 cards to grab them. 3/3 seems like the most logical split right now though. 3 Return can be cut down to 2 to add in those extra Flame Slash or other flex cards. Having some maindeck boardwipes against all of the aggressive decks is good though, and nothing is going to survive it's trigger with World Breaker so I can't see midrange being a problem once the game gets there.
This has got to be the trickiest part of the deck. Playing all 4 Karplusan Forest is correct for sure, but 4 Grove of the Burnwillows may not be because at the end of the day we are still a beatdown deck giving the opponent life every 1-2 turns. As it is with RG Tron though, you're probably going to give them 3-4 life max in the game so I can't see it being a deciding factor to cut them. Eldrazi Temple is a must. 1 Cavern is fine if you're playing 3+ Sylvan Scrying but with any more land destruction or less scryings I'd go up to 2. It really doesn't take up a deck slot and it pretty invaluable in like 40% of what you face in Modern. 2 Sanctum of Ugin is a good way to keep the threats flowing. With the sucess they've had in RG Tron I'd be up for playing 2 here. The only thing is that we have way less 7+ drops than them so you're going to have to reoucurr World Breakers to get value (which is hard with all of the Paths flying around). The utility lands of 1 Kessig Wolf Run are sweet since you can activate it for X=0 on a TKS and it still gets trample. It's great at breaking stalemates and bad in multiples so searching up 1 is fine. 2 2 Raging Ravine give some inevitability vs control decks or when all other resources are exhausted. It's just another uncounterable threat that can take over games on it's own which is nice to have. Having 1-2 in the deck is probably fine, although 1 if you just feel you can search it up often enough.
Tl;dr - I like the list as a starting point for the deck but I'd drop the goyfs if you don't have them for something else (maybe 1-2 Oblivion Stones) or some other colourless creature and go from there.
To be honest this list looks incredibly loose. 3 Tarmo's - why not 4? Tarmo's dont work very well in this shell anyway. I dont see how opposing Tarmo's are a problem for this deck - it is designed to go bigger than Tarmo - that is the point of Eldrazi. Endless One is far superior in this slot as they are often bigger then Tarmo - dismember opposing tarmo's and relic them g2/3. Harmonize? Play sea gate wreckage for gas - at least you can tutor for it. The numbers of cards are just plain strange - 3 talismans? Raging Ravine also seems super loose. Id be surprised to see this list do well in a competitive setting..
That is Gerry T. list
Greetings,
Kathal
PS: Do not underestimate Ravine in that shell, it is awesome.
I havent tested Ravine - maybe its awesome. However, I doubt it is as powerful as it is in Jund as they play the attrition game such that Ravine is often the last thing left standing - Eldrazi does not do that. I'd prefer to tutor up Kessig Wolf Run - as often you need to push trample damage through chump blockers - having an extra dude seems less relevant to me - I guess it depends on your threat density (I like 18+ threats).
Im pretty sure he is just spit balling with this list - sure he's Gerry T - doesnt mean its a good list though. I doubt he would actually run this in a competitive tournament - he's just brainstorming. Take a look at the sideboard to see why I am saying this. Why is flame slash good? Its sorcery speed and misses goyf (most of the time) and a lot of other fatties. Surely dismember is far better - instant, can be cast off of brown mana. Just my two cents - by all means test it and report good results
As @Torpf says, I really don't know about the Grove of the Burnwillows. We are trying to beat down and the couple of points of life doesn't help in that cause. I am going without it.
Also, I think the talisman can be Warping Wail. It ramps for us when we need it and since we have so much removal, we are more a midrange/control deck that wants to take decks to the mid game. In that sense, WW will help more, helping us remove hyper aggressive creatures, protect us from combo and ramp when we need that crucial creature one turn earlier.
I don't think the color will be a problem since most lands produce colorless and we only need one ore two green/red to operate. I will test it and let you guys know.
Wow, it's so nice to see an eldrazi deck still putting up good results. It's not the kind of eldrazi that I use, so can't comment much. But will still be following this thread.
Wow, it's so nice to see an eldrazi deck still putting up good results. It's not the kind of eldrazi that I use, so can't comment much. But will still be following this thread.
This is a 3 colour deck in a nutshell. Cutting one of the colours is going to lead to bad things happening. Think of it kindof like Jund if you didn't play any fetchable lands with red; it'll probably be a bad time always relying on drawing the land you need.
Part of the reason RG works as a colour pairing is because we have esentally 8 "original duallands" (tri-lands actually) that all have negligible drawbacks. This is something no other colour combinations can do. That and the on colour spells are extreamily powerful. I'd say you can run only 3 Groves if you want to minimize the life that the opponent is gaining, but I'd never go less than 3 Groves and 4 Karplusan Forests, and playing a 4/4 split will most often be correct.
Edit 5 hours later -
Just 5-0'd a league with this build beatin rg scapeshift, boggles, w/b eldrazi taxes, infect and a blue based control deck. I've stick with endless one over goyf but am down to 3, have also cut a talisman to fit in 2 sylvan scrying. Sylvan was great, getting temple consistantly is amazing. Ravine was good, it's having the extra attacker when going for lethal, I closed 2 games like this. Not sure about more than one, you want to play it on turn 1 if possible but if you have temple thoughtknot in hand should you play temple and hope to rip another temple for turn 2 thoughtknot or open with ravine? I opened with ravine because I had reshaper but if not I think I would have lead with temple.
I would lead with the ravine even without the reshaper. topdecking your second temple turn 2 is very unlikely; it is way more likely that you will have to delay a spell a turn due to ravine coming in tapped. It might create some feelbads if you did rip the temple, but just playing the odds it is certainly almost never the right choice.
Ok, I understand now. Thanks for the explanations. And I was also mistaken.. all these years I thought grove only produced green and red mana, did not know that it also produced colorless. ><
I havent tested Ravine - maybe its awesome. However, I doubt it is as powerful as it is in Jund as they play the attrition game such that Ravine is often the last thing left standing - Eldrazi does not do that. I'd prefer to tutor up Kessig Wolf Run - as often you need to push trample damage through chump blockers - having an extra dude seems less relevant to me - I guess it depends on your threat density (I like 18+ threats).
Im pretty sure he is just spit balling with this list - sure he's Gerry T - doesnt mean its a good list though. I doubt he would actually run this in a competitive tournament - he's just brainstorming. Take a look at the sideboard to see why I am saying this. Why is flame slash good? Its sorcery speed and misses goyf (most of the time) and a lot of other fatties. Surely dismember is far better - instant, can be cast off of brown mana. Just my two cents - by all means test it and report good results
Fyi Gerry ran raging ravine in this deck at the last scg modern open 2 weeks ago. I do agree with some of your criticisms but think it's definitely worth testing.
Edit 5 hours later -
Just 5-0'd a league with this build beatin rg scapeshift, boggles, w/b eldrazi taxes, infect and a blue based control deck. I've stick with endless one over goyf but am down to 3, have also cut a talisman to fit in 2 sylvan scrying. Sylvan was great, getting temple consistantly is amazing. Ravine was good, it's having the extra attacker when going for lethal, I closed 2 games like this. Not sure about more than one, you want to play it on turn 1 if possible but if you have temple thoughtknot in hand should you play temple and hope to rip another temple for turn 2 thoughtknot or open with ravine? I opened with ravine because I had reshaper but if not I think I would have lead with temple.
Nice result! That was a stealth edit so I didn't see it, but it's good to see this deck taking off and getting some results. I like your sideboard choices, they all seem to cover or really hate out key matchups that you'll cafe a lot. For the maindeck how did you like 4 World Breaker? I thought that'd be too much... was it? The rest seems fine. The biggest thing I see happening is flipping an Endless One off of a Matter Reshaper, but it's not coming up that often.
As @Torpf says, I really don't know about the Grove of the Burnwillows. We are trying to beat down and the couple of points of life doesn't help in that cause. I am going without it.
Also, I think the talisman can be Warping Wail. It ramps for us when we need it and since we have so much removal, we are more a midrange/control deck that wants to take decks to the mid game. In that sense, WW will help more, helping us remove hyper aggressive creatures, protect us from combo and ramp when we need that crucial creature one turn earlier.
This isn't a horrible idea actually. I was looking at the EldrasiTron thread and thinking "Why are't they playing 4 Warping Wail and 4 Simian Spirit Guides to get to 4 mana as fast as possible?" The thing about Talisman though is that you want to have repeatable mana to get to things constantly. What are you going to do if you cast Wail eot turn 2 to get to 4 mana on turn 3, then never get another land? With talisman you'll at least be able to keep pumping out 4 drops. Also Talisman allows for casting it turn 2 and still playing Lightning Bolt and 4 Ancient Stirrings which is a billion times better than not being able to cast your cards in the same turn.
Edit 5 hours later -
Just 5-0'd a league with this build beatin rg scapeshift, boggles, w/b eldrazi taxes, infect and a blue based control deck. I've stick with endless one over goyf but am down to 3, have also cut a talisman to fit in 2 sylvan scrying. Sylvan was great, getting temple consistantly is amazing. Ravine was good, it's having the extra attacker when going for lethal, I closed 2 games like this. Not sure about more than one, you want to play it on turn 1 if possible but if you have temple thoughtknot in hand should you play temple and hope to rip another temple for turn 2 thoughtknot or open with ravine? I opened with ravine because I had reshaper but if not I think I would have lead with temple.
I would lead with the ravine even without the reshaper. topdecking your second temple turn 2 is very unlikely; it is way more likely that you will have to delay a spell a turn due to ravine coming in tapped. It might create some feelbads if you did rip the temple, but just playing the odds it is certainly almost never the right choice.
I'd say you always lead with the Ravine unless you have 2 Temples in hand already, or you need to Lightning Bolt a Birds of Paradise or Delver of Secrets on turn 1. If you have some must-answer threat then don't ignore it, that's how you lose. Otherwise play your tapped land earlier because it's better to be cut off of mana turn 1 than 3 or 4 when you start playing the really big impact cards.
One thing id like to know is - why are people playing natural state? For me my sb is super tight and I rely on world breaker to remove any annoying artifacts/enchants that may come up - there must be a good reason as I see it in most lists?
Interesting choices is the lack of Sylvan Scrying and full playset of Talisman of Impulse in its place. 3 Caverns seems to be in expectance of a strong UWR showing. You're probably fine with just 1-2 most of the time in a FNM or more open meta I'd think as it allows for more utility lands... Which on that note he has no Kessig Wolf Run. Also 3 Matter Reshaper and 4 Endless One when usually it's the other way around. I have seen a lot of people say how Reshaper is often not good enough though. Sideboard is pretty standard I'd say. Covers pretty much any matchup.
Lands: I can see upping the number of Ghost Quarter by taking out the fetch/shock configuration. At least this proves the deck can perform on a budget! (seriously, without groves it makes the deck like $250
cheaper, but this isn't the place for budget cost).
Sideboard: Seems very spread out, but with the digging power of Ancient Stirrings the cards are much more accessible than at first glance.
Conclusion: The deck looks to be getting a "stock" list. I think this is a good thing as you can see the personal choices put into every list. My one is fairly similar, although closer to mlcoolg/mikey g's list.
I've made a change to the previous list because this came up yesterday - I had an opening 7 including 3 normal lands, talisman, slylvan scrying, thoughtknot seer and something else. On turn 2 I had the option of talisman or sylvan for temple. I went for the temple as it just seems better in the long run. I won that game and talisman was still in my hand. Because of this I’ve cut a talisman and replaced it with a 3rd sylvan scrying.
I played another league yesterday finishing 3-2 beating boggles 2-0, rug aggro 2-1, 4 colour dredge 2-1, losing to mono blue extra turns 2-0 and naya blitz (note not naya burn) 2-0.
Despite beating boggles again I don’t think it’s a favourable match up, you have to disrupt early and hope they haven’t won before you’ve ramped into a world breaker and remove the spirit mantle or coronet. Dredge wasn’t easy but surprisingly sideboard cards are good against it! Naya blitz is awful, they have kird ape, nacatl, loam lion, experimental one that all dodge a cast kozileks return. They have path for our fatties and they have rampager to get through our blockers. The Naya burn matchup isn’t anywhere near as bad for the opposite reasons.
I would lead with the ravine even without the reshaper. topdecking your second temple turn 2 is very unlikely; it is way more likely that you will have to delay a spell a turn due to ravine coming in tapped. It might create some feelbads if you did rip the temple, but just playing the odds it is certainly almost never the right choice.
Agreed although I think that the fact this is even a question highlights the importance of an early temple and/or thoughtknot to the strategy. The games where this happens your win % is incredibly high so I’ve found myself pro-actively trying to achieve this with stirrings etc.
Nice result! That was a stealth edit so I didn't see it, but it's good to see this deck taking off and getting some results. I like your sideboard choices, they all seem to cover or really hate out key matchups that you'll cafe a lot. For the maindeck how did you like 4 World Breaker? I thought that'd be too much... was it? The rest seems fine. The biggest thing I see happening is flipping an Endless One off of a Matter Reshaper, but it's not coming up that often. .
Thank you. I like the 4 breaker’s but did find myself bringing one out a number of times so you might be right that 4 is too many.
I can live with flipping endless one as just putting it into your hand is still good and hopefully sets up a sanctum trigger.
Below is a link to a 5-0 league list from May 13. http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/415504#paper
One thing id like to know is - why are people playing natural state? For me my sb is super tight and I rely on world breaker to remove any annoying artifacts/enchants that may come up - there must be a good reason as I see it in most lists?
That's me - I’ve been pleasantly surprised with it, it kills everything in affinity and boggles, also deals with spellskite, oblivion stone or an early map and often surprises because of the cost. You may be right that it’s too narrow, how does your board look at the moment?
My list is as below - the cards in the sb that under perform the most are Ancient Grudge and All is Dust. The rest of my sidebaord im incredibly happy with atm. - I could directly switch out Grudge for Natural State. I may end up dropping All is Dust..Id like to fit some more utility lands in the 75 - Ravine, another Cavern of Souls, maybe a seagate wreckage..
I originally didnt think that Sylvan Scrying would be necessary given Stirrings/Talismans but I think 2x is quite useful (i dont think more than this is helpful as it adds too much air to the deck) - helps improved consistency of beating the curve and also finding stuff like cavern (counterspell decks), ghost quarter (Tron, wolf run (late game) or wastes (blood moon).
I play 2x Dismember (to deal with goyfs, other annoying fatties - kalitias etc..) and as has been noted relics are a must from the sb to deal with goyf/ooze or whatever. Usually we can outclass goyf's anyway - a big endless one, smasher, breaker or block/bolt..
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
3 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Ghost Quarter
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Karplusan Forest
1 Kessig Wolf Run
2 Raging Ravine
2 Sanctum of Ugin
3 Tarmogoyf
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 World Breaker
//Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Ancient Stirrings
1 Flame Slash
3 Talisman of Impulse
3 Sylvan Scrying
3 Kozilek's Return
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Feed the Clan
1 Kozilek's Return
1 Natural State
2 Warping Wail
2 Crumble to Dust
2 Harmonize
Goyfs, because he wants another early threat, which can "remove" opp Goyfs, since those guys are most of the times 5/6 due to Artefacts and PW. Ravine was overperforming, since he was probably thread light, hence, the second one. Not happy with the manabase, since it offered to little utility (nothing like Eye to tutor out creatures, not enough manlands,...), hence a shift towards the Sanctums to be able to "tutor" up creatures in the mid to late game.
SB is a rough scratch, since he didn't need the Artefact hate at all (no Affinity and co), while he want some form of gas in the SB (Harmonize).
Edit says: Funny enough, my MD version is really close to that list, only my manabase is different (no Groves, no Sanctums) and a Dismember instead of the Flame Slash. Through, I have to get some testing in first.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
To be honest this list looks incredibly loose. 3 Tarmo's - why not 4? Tarmo's dont work very well in this shell anyway. I dont see how opposing Tarmo's are a problem for this deck - it is designed to go bigger than Tarmo - that is the point of Eldrazi. Endless One is far superior in this slot as they are often bigger then Tarmo - dismember opposing tarmo's and relic them g2/3. Harmonize? Play sea gate wreckage for gas - at least you can tutor for it. The numbers of cards are just plain strange - 3 talismans? Raging Ravine also seems super loose. Id be surprised to see this list do well in a competitive setting..
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
That is Gerry T. list
Greetings,
Kathal
PS: Do not underestimate Ravine in that shell, it is awesome.
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
3 Tarmogoyf
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 World Breaker
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Ancient Stirrings
1 Flame Slash
3 Talisman of Impulse
3 Sylvan Scrying
3 Kozilek's Return
3 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Ghost Quarter
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Karplusan Forest
1 Kessig Wolf Run
2 Raging Ravine
2 Sanctum of Ugin
At the end of it all I'd say I like the maindeck, save the Goyfs (for maybe something a bit more flexible since the deck is already efficient dumb beaters, do we really need more?) and the Flame Slash can be called a flex slot. Throwing in a Boseiju, Who Shelters All to the sideboard allows for the entire deck to be uncounterable which is pretty cool. There are still a lot of cool utility lands to explore, like Hall of the Bandit Lord, Fungal Reaches, Blighted Gorge, Haunted Fengraf, Keldon Megaliths, Kher Keep, Mikokoro, Center of the Sea, Miren, the Moaning Well, Mirrorpool, Mutavault, Mystifying Maze, Quicksand, Radiant Fountain, Rogue's Passage, Ruins of Oran-Rief, Sea Gate Wreckage, Skarrg, the Rage Pits, Spawning Bed, Springjack Pasture, Tectonic Edge, Thespian's Stage, Tendo Ice Bridge, Tomb of the Spirit Dragon, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Urza's Factory, and Westvale Abbey to name literally all of them...
Tl;dr - I like the list as a starting point for the deck but I'd drop the goyfs if you don't have them for something else (maybe 1-2 Oblivion Stones) or some other colourless creature and go from there.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
I havent tested Ravine - maybe its awesome. However, I doubt it is as powerful as it is in Jund as they play the attrition game such that Ravine is often the last thing left standing - Eldrazi does not do that. I'd prefer to tutor up Kessig Wolf Run - as often you need to push trample damage through chump blockers - having an extra dude seems less relevant to me - I guess it depends on your threat density (I like 18+ threats).
Im pretty sure he is just spit balling with this list - sure he's Gerry T - doesnt mean its a good list though. I doubt he would actually run this in a competitive tournament - he's just brainstorming. Take a look at the sideboard to see why I am saying this. Why is flame slash good? Its sorcery speed and misses goyf (most of the time) and a lot of other fatties. Surely dismember is far better - instant, can be cast off of brown mana. Just my two cents - by all means test it and report good results
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
As @Torpf says, I really don't know about the Grove of the Burnwillows. We are trying to beat down and the couple of points of life doesn't help in that cause. I am going without it.
Also, I think the talisman can be Warping Wail. It ramps for us when we need it and since we have so much removal, we are more a midrange/control deck that wants to take decks to the mid game. In that sense, WW will help more, helping us remove hyper aggressive creatures, protect us from combo and ramp when we need that crucial creature one turn earlier.
I don't think the color will be a problem since most lands produce colorless and we only need one ore two green/red to operate. I will test it and let you guys know.
BGElvesBG and BUGNissa ElvesBUG Faithful Elfer since May 1st, 2015
Results: SCG IQ Top 8, Monthly Modern Masters Top 4
Just a question for the RG eldrazi users.. can Copperline Gorge be used as a substitute for Grove of the Burnwillows?
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Part of the reason RG works as a colour pairing is because we have esentally 8 "original duallands" (tri-lands actually) that all have negligible drawbacks. This is something no other colour combinations can do. That and the on colour spells are extreamily powerful. I'd say you can run only 3 Groves if you want to minimize the life that the opponent is gaining, but I'd never go less than 3 Groves and 4 Karplusan Forests, and playing a 4/4 split will most often be correct.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
I would lead with the ravine even without the reshaper. topdecking your second temple turn 2 is very unlikely; it is way more likely that you will have to delay a spell a turn due to ravine coming in tapped. It might create some feelbads if you did rip the temple, but just playing the odds it is certainly almost never the right choice.
Ok, I understand now. Thanks for the explanations. And I was also mistaken.. all these years I thought grove only produced green and red mana, did not know that it also produced colorless. ><
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
This isn't a horrible idea actually. I was looking at the EldrasiTron thread and thinking "Why are't they playing 4 Warping Wail and 4 Simian Spirit Guides to get to 4 mana as fast as possible?" The thing about Talisman though is that you want to have repeatable mana to get to things constantly. What are you going to do if you cast Wail eot turn 2 to get to 4 mana on turn 3, then never get another land? With talisman you'll at least be able to keep pumping out 4 drops. Also Talisman allows for casting it turn 2 and still playing Lightning Bolt and 4 Ancient Stirrings which is a billion times better than not being able to cast your cards in the same turn.
I'd say you always lead with the Ravine unless you have 2 Temples in hand already, or you need to Lightning Bolt a Birds of Paradise or Delver of Secrets on turn 1. If you have some must-answer threat then don't ignore it, that's how you lose. Otherwise play your tapped land earlier because it's better to be cut off of mana turn 1 than 3 or 4 when you start playing the really big impact cards.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/415504#paper
One thing id like to know is - why are people playing natural state? For me my sb is super tight and I rely on world breaker to remove any annoying artifacts/enchants that may come up - there must be a good reason as I see it in most lists?
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
3 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 World Breaker
1 Forest
2 Mountain
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Ghost Quarter
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Karplusan Forest
1 Raging Ravine
2 Sanctum of Ugin
4 Kozilek's Return
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Ancient Stirrings
2 Flame Slash
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pithing Needle
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Sudden Shock
1 Unravel the Aether
2 Warping Wail
2 All Is Dust
Interesting choices is the lack of Sylvan Scrying and full playset of Talisman of Impulse in its place. 3 Caverns seems to be in expectance of a strong UWR showing. You're probably fine with just 1-2 most of the time in a FNM or more open meta I'd think as it allows for more utility lands... Which on that note he has no Kessig Wolf Run. Also 3 Matter Reshaper and 4 Endless One when usually it's the other way around. I have seen a lot of people say how Reshaper is often not good enough though. Sideboard is pretty standard I'd say. Covers pretty much any matchup.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
3 Endless One
3 World Breaker
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
Instants [8]
4 Kozilek's Return
4 Lightning Bolt
Sorceries [8]
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Sylvan Scrying
Artifacts [2]
2 Talisman of Impulse
Lands [24]
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Mountain
1 Raging Ravine
2 Copperline Gorge
2 Forest
2 Sanctum of Ugin
2 Stomping Ground
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Karplusan Forest
1 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Spellskite
1 All Is Dust
1 Dismember
1 Warping Wail
1 Choke
2 Feed the Clan
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Natural State
What you think about this list ? Classic good list ?
What you think about playing shocklands and fecths in place of Grove of the 4x Burnwillows ?
I feel I'm gonna break and buy parts for this deck
RG Titan Scapeshift GR
UBWAd Nauseam WBU
CEldrazi TronC
Creatures: Probably the best configuration. It's seeming more and more like 3 World Breakers are correct.
Spells: Stock again. The only thing I can see is -1 Sylvan Scrying or Talisman of Impulse and +1 arbitrary removal as a personal preference.
Lands: I can see upping the number of Ghost Quarter by taking out the fetch/shock configuration. At least this proves the deck can perform on a budget! (seriously, without groves it makes the deck like $250
cheaper, but this isn't the place for budget cost).
Sideboard: Seems very spread out, but with the digging power of Ancient Stirrings the cards are much more accessible than at first glance.
Conclusion: The deck looks to be getting a "stock" list. I think this is a good thing as you can see the personal choices put into every list. My one is fairly similar, although closer to mlcoolg/mikey g's list.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
My list is as below - the cards in the sb that under perform the most are Ancient Grudge and All is Dust. The rest of my sidebaord im incredibly happy with atm. - I could directly switch out Grudge for Natural State. I may end up dropping All is Dust..Id like to fit some more utility lands in the 75 - Ravine, another Cavern of Souls, maybe a seagate wreckage..
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Karplusan Forest
3 Ghost Quarter
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Stomping Ground
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Wastes
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Kozilek's Return
2 Dismember
//Creatures
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Endless One
3 World Breaker
//Other
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Talisman of Impulse
2 Sylvan Scrying
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Feed the Clan
2 All Is Dust
2 Crumble to Dust
1 Kozilek's Return
Added Decktags
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
And yes the deck is really cheap/budget, essentially because a lot of people sell their stocks of Eldrazi after "eldrazi winter".
RG Titan Scapeshift GR
UBWAd Nauseam WBU
CEldrazi TronC