What about endbrinder for the 6 cost creature, would be droppable on turn 3 or 4 with temple? Would allow card draw if it survives? Kinda a reach i guess.
Damn you beat me to it! I'll explain below.
---
Went 3-1 tonight taking 1st place at the Thursday modern! Looks like Eldrazi winter is here to stay. The deck for reference:
Round 1 vs UG Infect:
Lost game 1 in an impossible situation. I drew the Koz Return and he had a Pendlehaven to stop the damage. Then he topdecked a Gitaxian Probe to draw a Might of old Korosa and win. Games 2 and 3 I had too much removal between Bolts, Returns, Wails, and Ghost Quarters. Once I got an Eldrazi down I rode it to victory. 2-1.
Round 2 vs 8-Wack:
He couldn't handle the Koz Returns that kept wiping his board. Also both TKS I played took his Goblin Grenades so he had no way of removing them. In game 2 I cast a turn 3 TKS and turn 4 Feed the Clan to solidify the victory. 2-0.
Round 3 vs Elves:
Game 1 I curved out with a turn 2 Matter Reshaper, turn 3 TKS, turn 4 Reality Smasher, and then double Bolt for the win. When this deck gets to curve out it is goooood. Game 2 was a weird one because he was very scared of Koz Return so he wasn't attacking me. We had a stalemate for about 5 turns and I eventually drew the return for the win when he finally tapped out. I had a turn 1 Grafdigger's Cage in game 2 which shut off his most powerful cards. Without it I would have lost for sure. 2-0.
Round 4 vs Mono Green Devotion:
I have seen this guys deck before and know it can go bigger than mine but there would be a small window where I could remove his guys early and then win in a few turns off of TKS and Smasher. Game 1 I kept a hand with 2 temples, 2 Scryings, 1 Smahser, and 2 World Breakers. I proceeded to never see another land in about 4 turns and get Primal Command locked..... Game 2 I kept a 5 lander and never drew 2 Matter Reshapers and nothing else. I still think that if I had a Sea Gate Wreckage in game 2 I could have come back because he had a very slow hand. 1-2.
Even with 3-1 I had juuust enough tiebreakers and came in 1st! Much better than last week when I was paired down 3 times in 4 rounds.
Thoughts on the deck:
- I boarded out Endless One every single game. They suck and are only here for triggering Sanctum of Ugin. I am actively looking for 6 drops as my earlier posts says, and I am eyeing not only Drowner of Hope but also now Endbringer. It gets me the card draw I am looking for, it can lock down creatures, and it can provide a win condition all in one. The 6 mana means that it's getting played usually around turns 4-5 which I think will be great for the turn before I can normally drop a World Breaker and have already exhausted all other threats. It seems much better than the bad feeling you get of casting Endless One for 6. I'm going to start with 2 and see how I like it. Another option in the 6 slot is Oblivion Sower.
- One of my thoughts with Drowner is that you can play maybe 2-3 and splash for it through Cavern of Souls and 2 UG painlands and 1 UR painland. This would cut some of the utility lands and ghost quarters but the payoff could be there. I'd have to play with it a lot more to see.
- A bunch of cards to include could be: Barrage Tyrant as a way to provide reach and absolutely destroy some decks? My biggest thing against it is that it is hit by Lightning Bolt. Eldrazi Obligator could be a fun 1 or 2 of in the deck. It provides a mana-sink. A quick clock that comes down before Smasher, an steal the opponents biggest thing and make huge swings on the board states. Or maybe Immobilizer Eldrazi to break those board stalls instead?
- The next thing I want to do is look into the Sea Gate Wreckage. I have slotted one in my list and I expect to be happy when it comes up seeing as I'm 6-2 now in real games and both losses have come from being hellbent and never topdecking anything.
- One thing I will try it is to cut 1 Sylvan Scrying (still giving me 7 searches for Eldrazi Temple by turn 3 every game) and go +1 Talisman of Impulse. I like the Talismans as a way to ramp to 4 or 5 mana leading into turn 3 and still be able to cast your 1 mana card. It feel like you are playing 2 lands a turn and losing no tempo by still searching up an Eldrazi with Stirrings or Bolting their guy. Talisman also has the effect of helping vs a Blood Moon which a lot of people think is good vs this deck (hint: It's not), I'm 3-0 in Blood moon games so far. Mind Stone could help too as it deals with my card draw problem, but I like the colour sources from talisman...
- One bold thing I want to test and see how I like it is maybe not putting in the third Talisman but instead putting in 1 or 3 Warping Wails maindeck. It acts as sometimes removal, it can mess with Serum Visions and similar cards game 1, and most importantly it ramps us from 2 > 4 mana on turn 2, the same as a Sylvan Scrying. I just look at it as a Scrying that may not be totally dead lategame because honestly I'm getting tired of searching a Ravine or Wolf Run on empty boards when my Sanctums are already in play doing nothing.
Overall I like the deck a lot. It crushes any other midrange deck we face. It destroys aggro decks with 4 maindeck sweepers and the Bolts as backup. The only thing I've found is pure combo which the sideboard deals with, and running out of gas. Losing to itself seems to be the biggest issue.
Torpf, if you are going to try and splash blue you could do corrupted crossroads? Also let us know how endbringer works in the place of endless one. I might try to run 2 eo and 2 eb just to test for now. I like the versitility of eo and the sactum search trigger. This deck is starting to look good!
Do we need stronger removal than Flame Slash/Dismember/Roast - or are these sufficient?
I have found those to be sufficient. This deck pretty much always has 4 mana on turn 3, so you need the turn 1-2 bolts to slow them down before you can stabilize.
Torpf, if you are going to try and splash blue you could do corrupted crossroads? Also let us know how endbringer works in the place of endless one. I might try to run 2 eo and 2 eb just to test for now. I like the versitility of eo and the sactum search trigger. This deck is starting to look good!
Yeah I thought about Corrupted Crossroads as a 5 colour Eldrazi land. The problem is that the card just sucks! Maxing out on 4 Cavern of Souls should be done before ever playing Corrupted Crossroads, and at that point then you can play 2-3 painlands to get 6-7 sources of the colour. Between Scrying and Stirrings there shouldn't be a problem getting it for turn 4 or 5 when you would play Drowner.
I wasn't able to get out to FNM on Friday so I don't know how Endbringer plays. Next week though.
Also if you guys are looking for some video of the deck, I was on stream playing it at the Wednesday night modern last week. The videos get taken down after 1 week so this link won't work forever, but I'll try and save it. It starts in round 3 with me vs U Tron, then round 4 vs Bant Eldrazi.
I put in 2 Endbringer and they did work as you can see in both matches. The single Sea Gate Wreckage I added in won me round 2 (which was also vs U Tron) by drawing about 7 cards. I also wouldn't be opposed to going up to 2 and maybe even 3 Cavern of Souls since blue decks can't do anything about it. All 4 games vs U Tron I had it in my opener and decisively won because of it.
Comparing this to Bant, it seems that we have trouble with different decks. RG destroys aggro and midrange and has the change to go larger than pretty much any deck (even Tron thanks to our World Breaker often coming out before their Ulamog), whereas Bant has a lot of trouble with some aggro decks like Infect, but is going to be faster than us and has more reach otherwise. Both decks have their merits and ideal metas so it'll be cool to see how they evolve in the future.
While testing this deck it occurred several times to me to suffer of mana flood. Like a lot of it. Has this never happened to you? I know we have utility lands, but still, there were quite a few games I was just drawing too many lands. And it's not just occasional games. Currently I'm on 24 lands. How many are you guys running? Can't we get away with 22-23 lands?
Is playing 23 lands and I have found it to be plenty. You are essentially playing 29 with the 4 Sylvan Scrying and 2 Talisman of Impulse, then the 4 Ancient Stirrings could even be counted as 0.5 lands since they can 99% of the time find another one. That puts you at a rough psuedo ~30 cards that are "lands" (not even counting Matter Reshaper) which means there is no trouble getting mana. I have found I get flooded more often then I draw threats, because if I am drawing threats then I am often winning before I have a change to get flooded.
My addition of 1 Sea Gate Wreckage has been invaluable in drawing 4-5 cards in those games I am getting flooded. Those extra cards are all that's needed in closing out the games. Although it has been great I did start to wonder what other options are out there, such as if 1-2 Edge of Autumn or 1 Aggressive Mining could be a cool miser's card that just runs over games on it's own. I can't see it working out but the thought is there at least.
Yeah you are splitting yourself on what your gameplan should be. If you get a turn 3 Tron it means you didn't interact with the opponent on turns 1 or 2 with Lightning Bolts to slow them down or play a Matter Reshaper for early pressure. If you do get the 7 mana on turn 3 then what are you going to do? Play a Thought-Knot Seer and a Spellskite? The best cast I see is that you can cast a World Breaker on turn 4 given great draws (something the current RG deck can already do and have Sanctum of Ugin to go get another). You can go over top with Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger sure but you're not doing it faster than RG Tron and its going to come down too late to stop hyper linear decks like Affinity, Infect, Ad Naus, Tron, etc... It just seems better to devote to a single strategy than have 2 Tron lands out in one game and still be hard casting your Eldrazi.
---
On a different note I've been looking into a version with manadorks as someone mentioned a little ways back but I think got dismissed by pretty much everyone lol (sorry dude!). Keep the bulk of the K-Returns in the sideboard and the dorks allow for T2 TKS and T3 Smashers. I have just been getting beat by Bant Eldrazi's T2 TKS a little too much and want to see if it can slot into this deck at all. With the dorks and Cavern of Souls it also opens up the possibility of the 2 Drowner of Hope that I've been wanting to put into the deck. Will come back with how it's working.
But yeah! ive been playin a version with 4x hierarchs and put 2x kreturns in the board.
It pushed out my smasher fast, and if you need to kreturn, its best to swing for the attack to get a couple exalted triggers, then surprise the defenders with a sweep.
But yeah! ive been playin a version with 4x hierarchs and put 2x kreturns in the board.
It pushed out my smasher fast, and if you need to kreturn, its best to swing for the attack to get a couple exalted triggers, then surprise the defenders with a sweep.
Care to post your list right now? I'm going to try my own route to start off but it'd be nice to have someone to compare to seeing as you're probably the only person on the internet with the deck right now.
Yeah Sure! I played this at my last modern night, went 3-1 (lost to zoo on super fast hands).
Nobles were really good for that little extra damage, which i picked up after playing against bant (cant block smasher with my smasher!!).
Like I mentioned though, they do get swept with k-returns, so thats a downside against aggro. I would definitely add caverns, but I'm using my winnings to work towards them I think Sanctums are less worth it with less Endless Ones, so I might cut those for some other lands.
I'm not super experienced as I'm new, but I like where it's going!
What do you think about Arlinn Kord, btw? I was thinking of adding some oaths of nissa and a couple arlinns for a little kick! But not sure if it's necessary...I kinda wanna try planeswalkers (haven't had any yet).
Yeah Sure! I played this at my last modern night, went 3-1 (lost to zoo on super fast hands).
Nobles were really good for that little extra damage, which i picked up after playing against bant (cant block smasher with my smasher!!).
Like I mentioned though, they do get swept with k-returns, so thats a downside against aggro. I would definitely add caverns, but I'm using my winnings to work towards them I think Sanctums are less worth it with less Endless Ones, so I might cut those for some other lands.
I'm not super experienced as I'm new, but I like where it's going!
What do you think about Arlinn Kord, btw? I was thinking of adding some oaths of nissa and a couple arlinns for a little kick! But not sure if it's necessary...I kinda wanna try planeswalkers (haven't had any yet).
Thanks for the list. I'll play around with what I am thinking and get back with it to compare. I'll be a lot more free after this coming Wednesday. As for Arlinn Kord, I think if you're playing some Walkers with Oath of Nissa then there are better options to be doing. Nahiri, the Harbinger or Garruk Wildspeaker might even be better.
I started testing Endbringer after reading about it here, but I immediately got the impression it makes the deck slower. We already run 3 World Breaker...we shouldn't overload on big spells. I wouldn't run more than 1 Endbringer I think. Endless One is more versatile, can be played as an early threat when needed.
On playing Hierarch: if we were to run additional accelerators, wouldn't it be better to run non-creature ones? Our Hierarch will be the natural target of Bolts, Helixes, Decays and such since we have no other small creature. But it's not just that. Hierarch doesn't give red mana. Doesn't have haste so it's not great when we draw it later on. Can't be taken with Ancient Stirrings. I'm saying all of this because I think Talisman is better in this deck and I'd run 4 Talisman before I run any Hierarch. Oh another thing: you need a green mana to cast Hierarch, can cast Talisman with colorless mana.
The reason for going with Endbringer was that the deck I felt didn't have enough draw if it got to a topdeck point. Endbringer also gives the addition of a ping/wincon, and a way to push through stalemates when the opponent has creatures that can trade with ours. I was basically treating it as a psuedo-Drowner of Hope. I haven't found a lack of early threats as turns 2-4 are dedicated to TKS, Matter Reshaper, and Smasher. I'm always dropping at least 2 of those and then running out gas later in the game. Endless One has always rotted in my hand as I'd rather be playing TKS, Matter Reshaper, and Smasher in the early turns, and then I'll only cast it to trigger a sanctum if I don't already have a World Breaker. Casting it for anything less feels worse than playing any other Eldrazi.
The best non-creature accelerators are Utopia Sprawl (which we can't play reliably) and Talisman of Impulse. The Talisman is going to come down T2 allowing for a T3 TKS and friends which I still feel is a bit too slow in some matchups. The reason for an inclusion of Hierarch/Birds would be for the T2 TKS potential. The regular Bant guy in my city gets it scarily often, and the Eldrazi mirrors come down to whoever
gets their TKS first. The deck thrives on being 'one mana ahead of the curve' with Eldrazi Temple and playing pushed cards before we should really be able to. The dorks allow for copies 5-8 of 'playing one mana ahead of the curve'. I could definitely see going to 3-4 Talisman of Impulse, 2 Sylvan Scrying, 3 Hierarch, 1 Bird as a configuration. It'll just always guarantee giving us 3 mana turn 2 and 4 turn 3 rather than having to spend our turn 2 on a Sylvan Scrying. Spending it on a Talisman of Impulse into Bolt or Stirrings is far far better. My only concern is drawing too many Talismans is worse than Scryings with our small land "toolbox".
I went 3:2 lost against Zoo due to a minor mistake and to Jeskai Ascendancy, which you can't really win against with this deck.
Round 1 Jeskai Ascendancy [0:2]
I had pretty slow hand (thought he was on infect, so I kept Kozi Return and TKS). He comboed off T3 with Ascendancy and double Fatestitcher. Same thing Game 2, even though I took 1 Ascendancy and had T1 Bolt for his Bird... Really horrible MU.
Round 2 Bushwhacker Zoo [1:2]
G1 he just beat me down fairly quickly. G2 I had double bolt into double Smasher into win. G3 He had me on 4 life I had a TKS and a Smasher I think. I made the mistake to pain myself with Karplusan Forest to dig deeper with Ancient Stirrings to end the game quicker. The round before I can finish him he just topdecked bolt and wins... Wasn't really necessary to pain myself there so I could have won this one.
Round 3 Burn [2:0]
I was like wow 0:2 and now I'm playing against burn.. But I ended up drawing really well against his creature heavy draw. I had turn 3 Kozi return into double Smasher both games.
Round 4 Naya (Big) Zoo [2:0]
I think this is a really good matchup, they're slow and we have enough time to bring out our fatties. G1 I had Matter Reshaper into TKS into Smasher and Return and win from there on. G2 Kinda the same I took his Elspeth, Knight-Errant and can win through Domri Rade Emblem.
Round 5 Abzan Company [2:0]
I started off with T2 Scrying T3 TKS and saw a hand of 2x Company 1x Chord 1x Kitchen Finks (he had Anafenza on board already). I took 1 Company, the following turn he played Finks. Then he passed his turn with 4 mana up I passed the turn with 4 mana up as well. He EOT company into Noble Hierarch and Scavenging Ooze, with the bolster triggers on stack I played Kozilek's Return and killed everything but the Finks. But that was actually game. I later played a World Breaker to flashback Return and take his Township.
G2 I had T2 Grafdigger's Cage where he had a hand of 3x Chord 1x Company.
I Think this matchup can be really good if we have Return and Cage just locks down their whole deck.
I'm quite happy with the deck, even if it sometimes plays out reeeaally slow. I'll be testing the Bant version a little more, but I have the feeling that R/G has more maindeck answers to a variety of decks (like Affinity, Infect, Abzan Company) where I feel Bant lacks those answers. Opinions?
By the way did somebody consider Simian Spirit Guide and Chalice of the Voide as a 4 of maindeck choice like back in the eldrazi winter? It would propably fix a lot of our bad matchups like noncreature combo decks and burn.
Pretty stock list, seems solid. I agree that RG has more answers to stuff, but what it lacks is the raw speed that the Bant deck has. Each deck has their strengths and I like this more as an interactive deck and Bant when you are trying to blow through the field and hope to dodge your worse matchups.
With kozileks return being one of our best cards im not sure putting in mana dorks will be a good thing even tho the exalted thing is a huge plus. The 2 drop 0/3 mana guy with hexproof might be okay but wont get out a tks on turn 2 obviously it does provide any color mana so if drowner ends up being needed it would help there. I like the endbringer even tho i really only got to play with him in 2 games last night. Went 3-1. I put in a mirrorpool since i dont have all my groves yet, what do you think? I know its a tap land so its prolly not making the cut but it did save me a few games by putting another smasher on tje board. I think the sea gate wrekage is a must since it saved me a game 3 last night allowing me to draw additional cards. I know it sounds funny but i even thought about lambolt pasificst since we have creatures with power 4 or greater lol. Good stuff guys!
Soo I was thinking about Wild GrowthUtopia Sprawl as an accelerate and the number of Forests the deck needs to be consistent. I won't be free till tomorrow to think more about it, but off the bat 4 Foothills, 2 Grounds, 2 Forests gives us 8 sources to throw it on. This means we just need one, like the 7 manadorks in Abzan Company that you almost always have 1 of. I'm thinking a mana base like:
This gives 15 Colourless sources, 9 (13 with fetches) green sources, and 7 (11 with fetches) red sources. 15-13-11 sounds pretty good to me for needing whatever colour we need, not to mention the addition of Talisman and friends. The utility lands of Raging Ravine, Ghost Quarter, Kessig Wolf Run, Sea Gate Wreckage can all be tweaked a bit. To be honest I've only got a ton of use out of Sea Gate Wreckage with marginal use from Kessig Wolf Run. Ravine has been pretty lackluster because I'd rather be activating Sea Gate Wreckage or playing my threats which are just on average better.
After we split in the finals we played for who got to sign the card that goes up on the wall at the store. I lost game 1 came down to him at 3 life, me with a bolt, and a grove as my only red source. I had activated it on turns 1 and 2 before that meaning it was the difference between the win and not! That's the first time it's happened to me but I guess it's bound to come up sometime.
I still feel this build is a tad threat-light compared to Bant, so ill keep trying to think of ways to improve that... it really seems like some kind of Goyf is whats needed right now. That or something to do with all of the lands when were flooded. Explore could be a way around that, with Scapeshift into some Valakut as another option.
I honestly don't understand why you should play Grove of the Burnwillows. Karplusan Forest is a must, but I don't feel the same way with Grove at all. The fact that the opponent gains life is a big deal when we want to be aggressive. I've been playing with 2 Wooded Foothills and 2 Stomping Ground and had no issues with having colorless mana. I mean we have like 20 sources without Grove to produce colorless mana.
Yeah I'll probably look to switch it out, especially with the reworked manabase I was thinking of.
I was testing the Utopia Sprawls a bit and did have a few times that I was getting a T2 TKS, maybe about 10-15% of the time. I really should have kept solid numbers on it.. The real power came from the unbelievably fast ramp that I was seeing. Normally I have found this deck is getting 4 mana on turn 3 (with a temple or Talisman) but with the Sprawl you are essentially playing 8 'sol-lands' just like pre-ban and the Bant lists. It was making for some insane turns, like T1 Sprawl, T2 Land into Talisman, tapping the talisman and land for another talisman, then T3 is a land and you have 6 mana to play with. Playing with 4 Talismans and 4 Sprawls gives the deck much more explosive turns, but it takes away from the small toolbox of lands that it currently has. I have been liking it but it's going to take a lot more to make it truly consistent.
I can also see the optimal way of playing goes the route of having Returns in the board for a wide open meta, then bringing them in games 2 and 3 to all but ensure winning. If you know the meta you're going into (like mine) then having them maindeck is the better call though.
Hey, first time posting, but I've played this deck with pretty good results the past couple of days and was wondering what you guys think about running eldrazi obligator in the side?
Beat humans, elves, RUB control with empty the pits as finisher. Kozilek's return says hello in all those matches. Lost to kiki chord beatdown because I could not found any Kozilek's returns in that match... the card is MVP.
Wild growth over over utopia sprawl because it can enchant karplusan forest, which oftentimes is our only source of green in hand.
Goyf was good, 4/5 most of the time: land, instant, sorcery, creature.
Sylvan scrying and worldbreaker underperformed. Worldbreaker is too expensive even for this deck (24 lands + 4 accelerants). Sanctum of ugin was dead, could have been a better utility land. So the options are:
get rid of the package: -2 sanctum, -2 worldbreaker, -1 sylvan scrying, +2 ghost quarter, +2 flame slash, +1 endbringer. Weakens Kozilek's return a bit.
Wild growth makes this deck the same speed as bant eldrazi. Let's compar T2 thought-knot: we have green source (12) + wild growth (4) + temple (4). They have green source (15+ counting cavern) + dork (4-6) + temple (4). Temple + temple scenario is the same. Wild growth is unboltable acceleration while bant eldrazi often looses the dork right away. On the flip side hierarchs' exalted is very good and lets them swing past walls and goyfs.
Bant eldrazi has path, which is the superior removal to bolt. We almost never want to bolt face, therefore path is way better. I missed it.
They own combat much easier than we do. Exalted + drowner + displacer.
The only trick we do better is Kozilek's return
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Staff---
Went 3-1 tonight taking 1st place at the Thursday modern! Looks like Eldrazi winter is here to stay. The deck for reference:
3 Endless One
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 World Breaker
Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Flame Slash
4 Kozilek's Return
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Sylvan Scrying
2 Talisman of Impulse
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Karplusan Forest
1 Raging Ravine
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Sanctum of Ugin
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Mountain
2 Forest
1 Wastes
2 Spellskite
1 World Breaker
2 Warping Wail
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Feed the Clan
2 Crumble to Dust
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Relic of Progenitus
Round 1 vs UG Infect:
Lost game 1 in an impossible situation. I drew the Koz Return and he had a Pendlehaven to stop the damage. Then he topdecked a Gitaxian Probe to draw a Might of old Korosa and win. Games 2 and 3 I had too much removal between Bolts, Returns, Wails, and Ghost Quarters. Once I got an Eldrazi down I rode it to victory. 2-1.
Round 2 vs 8-Wack:
He couldn't handle the Koz Returns that kept wiping his board. Also both TKS I played took his Goblin Grenades so he had no way of removing them. In game 2 I cast a turn 3 TKS and turn 4 Feed the Clan to solidify the victory. 2-0.
Round 3 vs Elves:
Game 1 I curved out with a turn 2 Matter Reshaper, turn 3 TKS, turn 4 Reality Smasher, and then double Bolt for the win. When this deck gets to curve out it is goooood. Game 2 was a weird one because he was very scared of Koz Return so he wasn't attacking me. We had a stalemate for about 5 turns and I eventually drew the return for the win when he finally tapped out. I had a turn 1 Grafdigger's Cage in game 2 which shut off his most powerful cards. Without it I would have lost for sure. 2-0.
Round 4 vs Mono Green Devotion:
I have seen this guys deck before and know it can go bigger than mine but there would be a small window where I could remove his guys early and then win in a few turns off of TKS and Smasher. Game 1 I kept a hand with 2 temples, 2 Scryings, 1 Smahser, and 2 World Breakers. I proceeded to never see another land in about 4 turns and get Primal Command locked..... Game 2 I kept a 5 lander and never drew 2 Matter Reshapers and nothing else. I still think that if I had a Sea Gate Wreckage in game 2 I could have come back because he had a very slow hand. 1-2.
Even with 3-1 I had juuust enough tiebreakers and came in 1st! Much better than last week when I was paired down 3 times in 4 rounds.
Thoughts on the deck:
- I boarded out Endless One every single game. They suck and are only here for triggering Sanctum of Ugin. I am actively looking for 6 drops as my earlier posts says, and I am eyeing not only Drowner of Hope but also now Endbringer. It gets me the card draw I am looking for, it can lock down creatures, and it can provide a win condition all in one. The 6 mana means that it's getting played usually around turns 4-5 which I think will be great for the turn before I can normally drop a World Breaker and have already exhausted all other threats. It seems much better than the bad feeling you get of casting Endless One for 6. I'm going to start with 2 and see how I like it. Another option in the 6 slot is Oblivion Sower.
- One of my thoughts with Drowner is that you can play maybe 2-3 and splash for it through Cavern of Souls and 2 UG painlands and 1 UR painland. This would cut some of the utility lands and ghost quarters but the payoff could be there. I'd have to play with it a lot more to see.
- A bunch of cards to include could be: Barrage Tyrant as a way to provide reach and absolutely destroy some decks? My biggest thing against it is that it is hit by Lightning Bolt. Eldrazi Obligator could be a fun 1 or 2 of in the deck. It provides a mana-sink. A quick clock that comes down before Smasher, an steal the opponents biggest thing and make huge swings on the board states. Or maybe Immobilizer Eldrazi to break those board stalls instead?
- The next thing I want to do is look into the Sea Gate Wreckage. I have slotted one in my list and I expect to be happy when it comes up seeing as I'm 6-2 now in real games and both losses have come from being hellbent and never topdecking anything.
- One thing I will try it is to cut 1 Sylvan Scrying (still giving me 7 searches for Eldrazi Temple by turn 3 every game) and go +1 Talisman of Impulse. I like the Talismans as a way to ramp to 4 or 5 mana leading into turn 3 and still be able to cast your 1 mana card. It feel like you are playing 2 lands a turn and losing no tempo by still searching up an Eldrazi with Stirrings or Bolting their guy. Talisman also has the effect of helping vs a Blood Moon which a lot of people think is good vs this deck (hint: It's not), I'm 3-0 in Blood moon games so far. Mind Stone could help too as it deals with my card draw problem, but I like the colour sources from talisman...
- Would an Oath of Nissa or 2 be such a bad thing? You get card selection and we could throw in a Garruk Wildspeaker/Garruk, Primal Hunter/[card]
Nahiri, the Harbinger[/card]. Terrible idea? Yes.
- One bold thing I want to test and see how I like it is maybe not putting in the third Talisman but instead putting in 1 or 3 Warping Wails maindeck. It acts as sometimes removal, it can mess with Serum Visions and similar cards game 1, and most importantly it ramps us from 2 > 4 mana on turn 2, the same as a Sylvan Scrying. I just look at it as a Scrying that may not be totally dead lategame because honestly I'm getting tired of searching a Ravine or Wolf Run on empty boards when my Sanctums are already in play doing nothing.
My list going into the next event will look like:
1 Endless One/Eldrazi Obligator
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Endbringer
3 World Breaker
Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Flame Slash
4 Kozilek's Return
4 Ancient Stirrings
3 Sylvan Scrying
1 Warping Wail
2 Talisman of Impulse
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Karplusan Forest
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Sanctum of Ugin
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
1 Raging Ravine
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Mountain
2 Forest
1 Wastes
2 Spellskite
1 World Breaker
1 Warping Wail
1 Pyroclasm
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Feed the Clan
1 Crumble to Dust
1 Pithing Needle
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Relic of Progenitus
Overall I like the deck a lot. It crushes any other midrange deck we face. It destroys aggro decks with 4 maindeck sweepers and the Bolts as backup. The only thing I've found is pure combo which the sideboard deals with, and running out of gas. Losing to itself seems to be the biggest issue.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
StaffYeah I thought about Corrupted Crossroads as a 5 colour Eldrazi land. The problem is that the card just sucks! Maxing out on 4 Cavern of Souls should be done before ever playing Corrupted Crossroads, and at that point then you can play 2-3 painlands to get 6-7 sources of the colour. Between Scrying and Stirrings there shouldn't be a problem getting it for turn 4 or 5 when you would play Drowner.
I wasn't able to get out to FNM on Friday so I don't know how Endbringer plays. Next week though.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
For more information on the May metagame update, please check this post in the Metagame Thread:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/566735-modern-metagame-discussion-thread-updated-6-7-2016?comment=1210
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Staff---
Also if you guys are looking for some video of the deck, I was on stream playing it at the Wednesday night modern last week. The videos get taken down after 1 week so this link won't work forever, but I'll try and save it. It starts in round 3 with me vs U Tron, then round 4 vs Bant Eldrazi.
I put in 2 Endbringer and they did work as you can see in both matches. The single Sea Gate Wreckage I added in won me round 2 (which was also vs U Tron) by drawing about 7 cards. I also wouldn't be opposed to going up to 2 and maybe even 3 Cavern of Souls since blue decks can't do anything about it. All 4 games vs U Tron I had it in my opener and decisively won because of it.
Comparing this to Bant, it seems that we have trouble with different decks. RG destroys aggro and midrange and has the change to go larger than pretty much any deck (even Tron thanks to our World Breaker often coming out before their Ulamog), whereas Bant has a lot of trouble with some aggro decks like Infect, but is going to be faster than us and has more reach otherwise. Both decks have their merits and ideal metas so it'll be cool to see how they evolve in the future.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
WooHoo!!!
Ive tired something like this in the past. I had a feeling that this deck wanted to do to many things at this same time.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Staff1 Endless One
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Endbringer
3 World Breaker
Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Flame Slash
4 Kozilek's Return
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Sylvan Scrying
2 Talisman of Impulse
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Karplusan Forest
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Sanctum of Ugin
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
1 Raging Ravine
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Mountain
2 Forest
1 Wastes
2 Spellskite
1 World Breaker
2 Warping Wail
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Feed the Clan
1 Crumble to Dust
1 Pithing Needle
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Relic of Progenitus
My addition of 1 Sea Gate Wreckage has been invaluable in drawing 4-5 cards in those games I am getting flooded. Those extra cards are all that's needed in closing out the games. Although it has been great I did start to wonder what other options are out there, such as if 1-2 Edge of Autumn or 1 Aggressive Mining could be a cool miser's card that just runs over games on it's own. I can't see it working out but the thought is there at least.
Yeah you are splitting yourself on what your gameplan should be. If you get a turn 3 Tron it means you didn't interact with the opponent on turns 1 or 2 with Lightning Bolts to slow them down or play a Matter Reshaper for early pressure. If you do get the 7 mana on turn 3 then what are you going to do? Play a Thought-Knot Seer and a Spellskite? The best cast I see is that you can cast a World Breaker on turn 4 given great draws (something the current RG deck can already do and have Sanctum of Ugin to go get another). You can go over top with Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger sure but you're not doing it faster than RG Tron and its going to come down too late to stop hyper linear decks like Affinity, Infect, Ad Naus, Tron, etc... It just seems better to devote to a single strategy than have 2 Tron lands out in one game and still be hard casting your Eldrazi.
---
On a different note I've been looking into a version with manadorks as someone mentioned a little ways back but I think got dismissed by pretty much everyone lol (sorry dude!). Keep the bulk of the K-Returns in the sideboard and the dorks allow for T2 TKS and T3 Smashers. I have just been getting beat by Bant Eldrazi's T2 TKS a little too much and want to see if it can slot into this deck at all. With the dorks and Cavern of Souls it also opens up the possibility of the 2 Drowner of Hope that I've been wanting to put into the deck. Will come back with how it's working.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
But yeah! ive been playin a version with 4x hierarchs and put 2x kreturns in the board.
It pushed out my smasher fast, and if you need to kreturn, its best to swing for the attack to get a couple exalted triggers, then surprise the defenders with a sweep.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
StaffMTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
Nobles were really good for that little extra damage, which i picked up after playing against bant (cant block smasher with my smasher!!).
Like I mentioned though, they do get swept with k-returns, so thats a downside against aggro. I would definitely add caverns, but I'm using my winnings to work towards them
I'm not super experienced as I'm new, but I like where it's going!
2 Endless One
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 World Breaker
4 Ancient Stirrings
2 Sylvan Scrying
2 Talisman of Impulse
2 Kozilek's Return
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Flame Slash
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Karplusan Forest
1 Tendo Ice Bridge
1 Kessig Wolf Run
3 Ghost Quarter
2 Sanctum of Ugin
2 Forest
2 Mountain
1 Wastes
What do you think about Arlinn Kord, btw? I was thinking of adding some oaths of nissa and a couple arlinns for a little kick! But not sure if it's necessary...I kinda wanna try planeswalkers (haven't had any yet).
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
StaffThe reason for going with Endbringer was that the deck I felt didn't have enough draw if it got to a topdeck point. Endbringer also gives the addition of a ping/wincon, and a way to push through stalemates when the opponent has creatures that can trade with ours. I was basically treating it as a psuedo-Drowner of Hope. I haven't found a lack of early threats as turns 2-4 are dedicated to TKS, Matter Reshaper, and Smasher. I'm always dropping at least 2 of those and then running out gas later in the game. Endless One has always rotted in my hand as I'd rather be playing TKS, Matter Reshaper, and Smasher in the early turns, and then I'll only cast it to trigger a sanctum if I don't already have a World Breaker. Casting it for anything less feels worse than playing any other Eldrazi.
The best non-creature accelerators are Utopia Sprawl (which we can't play reliably) and Talisman of Impulse. The Talisman is going to come down T2 allowing for a T3 TKS and friends which I still feel is a bit too slow in some matchups. The reason for an inclusion of Hierarch/Birds would be for the T2 TKS potential. The regular Bant guy in my city gets it scarily often, and the Eldrazi mirrors come down to whoever
gets their TKS first. The deck thrives on being 'one mana ahead of the curve' with Eldrazi Temple and playing pushed cards before we should really be able to. The dorks allow for copies 5-8 of 'playing one mana ahead of the curve'. I could definitely see going to 3-4 Talisman of Impulse, 2 Sylvan Scrying, 3 Hierarch, 1 Bird as a configuration. It'll just always guarantee giving us 3 mana turn 2 and 4 turn 3 rather than having to spend our turn 2 on a Sylvan Scrying. Spending it on a Talisman of Impulse into Bolt or Stirrings is far far better. My only concern is drawing too many Talismans is worse than Scryings with our small land "toolbox".
Pretty stock list, seems solid. I agree that RG has more answers to stuff, but what it lacks is the raw speed that the Bant deck has. Each deck has their strengths and I like this more as an interactive deck and Bant when you are trying to blow through the field and hope to dodge your worse matchups.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
StaffWild GrowthUtopia Sprawl as an accelerate and the number of Forests the deck needs to be consistent. I won't be free till tomorrow to think more about it, but off the bat 4 Foothills, 2 Grounds, 2 Forests gives us 8 sources to throw it on. This means we just need one, like the 7 manadorks in Abzan Company that you almost always have 1 of. I'm thinking a mana base like:4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Karplusan Forest
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Raging Ravine
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
2 Sanctum of Ugin
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Stomping Ground
2 Forest
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
StaffThe deck list was pretty much the same as a few posts back:
1 Endless One
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Endbringer
3 World Breaker
Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Flame Slash
4 Kozilek's Return
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Sylvan Scrying
2 Talisman of Impulse
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Karplusan Forest
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Sanctum of Ugin
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
1 Raging Ravine
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Mountain
2 Forest
1 Wastes
1 World Breaker
2 Warping Wail
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Natural State
2 Feed the Clan
1 Crumble to Dust
1 Pithing Needle
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Relic of Progenitus
After we split in the finals we played for who got to sign the card that goes up on the wall at the store. I lost game 1 came down to him at 3 life, me with a bolt, and a grove as my only red source. I had activated it on turns 1 and 2 before that meaning it was the difference between the win and not! That's the first time it's happened to me but I guess it's bound to come up sometime.
I still feel this build is a tad threat-light compared to Bant, so ill keep trying to think of ways to improve that... it really seems like some kind of Goyf is whats needed right now. That or something to do with all of the lands when were flooded. Explore could be a way around that, with Scapeshift into some Valakut as another option.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
StaffI was testing the Utopia Sprawls a bit and did have a few times that I was getting a T2 TKS, maybe about 10-15% of the time. I really should have kept solid numbers on it.. The real power came from the unbelievably fast ramp that I was seeing. Normally I have found this deck is getting 4 mana on turn 3 (with a temple or Talisman) but with the Sprawl you are essentially playing 8 'sol-lands' just like pre-ban and the Bant lists. It was making for some insane turns, like T1 Sprawl, T2 Land into Talisman, tapping the talisman and land for another talisman, then T3 is a land and you have 6 mana to play with. Playing with 4 Talismans and 4 Sprawls gives the deck much more explosive turns, but it takes away from the small toolbox of lands that it currently has. I have been liking it but it's going to take a lot more to make it truly consistent.
I can also see the optimal way of playing goes the route of having Returns in the board for a wide open meta, then bringing them in games 2 and 3 to all but ensure winning. If you know the meta you're going into (like mine) then having them maindeck is the better call though.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Forest
2 Ghost Quarter
4 Karplusan Forest
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
2 Stomping Ground
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Kozilek's Return
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
2 Sylvan Scrying
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Wild Growth
2 World Breaker
2 Feed the Clan
2 Grafdigger's Cage
4 Natural State
2 Pithing Needle
3 Relic of Progenitus
Beat humans, elves, RUB control with empty the pits as finisher. Kozilek's return says hello in all those matches. Lost to kiki chord beatdown because I could not found any Kozilek's returns in that match... the card is MVP.
Wild growth over over utopia sprawl because it can enchant karplusan forest, which oftentimes is our only source of green in hand.
Goyf was good, 4/5 most of the time: land, instant, sorcery, creature.
Sylvan scrying and worldbreaker underperformed. Worldbreaker is too expensive even for this deck (24 lands + 4 accelerants). Sanctum of ugin was dead, could have been a better utility land. So the options are:
Wild growth makes this deck the same speed as bant eldrazi. Let's compar T2 thought-knot: we have green source (12) + wild growth (4) + temple (4). They have green source (15+ counting cavern) + dork (4-6) + temple (4). Temple + temple scenario is the same. Wild growth is unboltable acceleration while bant eldrazi often looses the dork right away. On the flip side hierarchs' exalted is very good and lets them swing past walls and goyfs.
Bant eldrazi has path, which is the superior removal to bolt. We almost never want to bolt face, therefore path is way better. I missed it.
They own combat much easier than we do. Exalted + drowner + displacer.
The only trick we do better is Kozilek's return
Cardsphere MTG Draft Simulator
Cardsphere Blog - Original Content
|
|
Big Johnny.