Mono white and WR are similar with the main difference being the consistency of the manabase. Historically it is better in a meta of unfair decks. BW endrazi and taxes is less consistent and not as good against unfair decks, but better in the fair matchups. Not sure about WU. Probably just good where spell queller is good but I don't have enough experience with it. Craig Westcoe has had good results with WU though.
By the way are we aloud to talk about the dominaria leaks? It looks like there is atleast 1 card if not more that could be viable for us.
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Hi guys,
I am pretty new to the deck. I have read the primer, searched for some videos on YouTube and Twitch. I decided to invest into it because I like the gameplay. Should I pick some variant on mtggoldfish, which has reached 5:0? Or do you recommend me something different?
I played in the past, mostly around 1999-2004. I was mainly control player at that time with my Mono U Draw & Go, but I played even some Mono Black aggro or tried White Weenie decks. I have returned to Magic around 2012, but made a lot of pauses, though I have never sold my cardpool so I still have a lot of them. Last month I started playing on MTGO, because my LGS is in the different city and I cannot visit it often due to work.
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Active player in years 1999-2004.
Mono U Draw & Go fan
Decks:
Modern - Mono U Tron, UR Delver
Legacy - UR Delver
Pauper - BGRUW Tron, Mono U Delver, Mono B Control
I think the Damping Sphere is going to be a phenomenal addition to our sideboard. Also hoses Amulet, which has been doing great locally (no, seriously).
I'm also a bit interested in one of the new walkers:
Karn, Scion of Urza (4)
Legendary Planeswalker — Karn
+1: Reveal the top two cards of your library. An opponent chooses one of them. Put that card into your hand and exile the other with a silver counter on it.
-1: Put a card you own with a silver counter on it from exile into your hand.
-2: Create a 0/0 colorless Construct artifact creature token with "This creature gets +1/+1 for each artifact you control."
5 loyalty
Not sure, but gaining card advantage every turn in mono-white taxes seems aluring for grindy matchups. Slamming either Gideon might just be better tho.
I was looking at the 1 drop knight that sacs for indestrubility to the chosen creature. It opens up the line of turn 1 vial turn 2 hatebear and then vial in to block removal which is a powerful line against burn, jund, jeskia etc. I also like the 2/2 flier for 4 that returns a 3cmc creature to play when ever you cast a legendary, artifact, or saga. It seems superb in grindy games as a one of. If you have it plus selfless spirit there is a tremendous amout of preasure on your opponent to have extra cheap removal. I think the bigest draw is that it is latrgame card that doesn't get hit with thalia, and can get caverned/vialed in. It won't be a staple, but I want to play around with it and see how it compares to Gideon.
Also the following seems like a reasonable Gideon impression.
History of Benalia
1WW
Enchantment — Saga
(As this Saga enters and after your draw step, add a lore counter. Sacrifice after III.)
I, II — Create a 2/2 white Knight creature token with vigilance.
III — Knights you control get +2/+1 until end of turn.
I always sac my land aggresively so 3 mana is preferable to 4.
p.s. if we are going to talk about dominaria can we use spoilers? We really shouldn't assume that everyone is okay with having the set spoiled.
Honestly I think it is too convoluted to keep having the discussion about new cards assuming people don't like knowing of spoilers (that came just a little bit ahead of spoiler season, mind you). Let me put this way: it is not our job to keep people on the dark about such a massive leak that everyone is already discussing and knows about. The list of cards was released by WoTC themselves in their very site. We are here to discuss strategies and cards, and that includes the newly spoiled (or leaked) ones.
With that said:
I like the 1-drop knight, but I'm not sure it is good enough in the long run. A card like Thraben Inspector is so amazing because it is still has value late game and can be blinked for additional value. This one drop feels like it would only be dead weight if not cast on the early game. I find the enchantment mediocre. It is not a creature, so it can't be vialed in and it becomes mana-taxing due to the 1ww in its cost.
Cards that I find interesting:
Aryel, Knight of Windgrace - pretty cool card for the grindier matchups for the BW taxes build.
Damping Sphere - obvious sideboard card that people already pointed out, but I'm not sure how good it is. It is basically effective against tron and storm. That's it. Is there another deck that cares about this?
Mox Amber - I think there is an argument, albeit maybe not a very good one, for trying this card. Maybe it would require tweaking the decklist a little, but we already play 6~8 thalias. MAYBE it is worth taking a look.
Aaaaand, that is pretty much it. Hummm, not very much, I don't think. Maybe when the rest of the set is spoiled?
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Would you like to read Commander stories? Check my latest stories, coming from Lorwyn and Innistrad: Ghoulcaller Gisa and Doran, The Siege Tower! If you like my writing, ask me to write something for your commander as well!
Welcome to the forum. Picking up a stock 5-0 list (with maybe a budget replacement or two) to start playing is good advice. I think consensus in this forum is that a classic style Monowhite build is an especially great place to learn the ins and outs of the deck (though BW Eldrazi is a fine deck too if you already own those cards).
For Monowhite, Justin Prigel's recent decklist is a good stock list to start with. If you're on a bit of a budget you can definitely replace Horizon Canopy with Shefet Dunes and basic Plains without changing the feel of the deck. However, if you're on an extreme budget and can't afford some combination of Thalia/Path/Vial then it'll be very hard for us to give sound advice on a starter list.
You can increase the number of these cads but I would advise against decreasing them. Beyond that it comes down to preference and meta, but the lists that perform tipically have 4 Thraben Inspector and some mixture of Eldrazi Displacer,Thalia, Heretic Cathar, Mirran Crusader, Selfless Spirit, and Smuggler's Copter. The SB is the hardest part as they can differ vastly depending on the meta. I would start with a sb like the deck x1uo3yd linked. Generally you want 3+ cards for afinity, 2+ for storm, 2-4 graveyard hate, 2+ for elves and other creature based aggro decks, as well as a plethora of soft sb cards that are good in multiple matchups. Sometimes you want to side out all of your leonin arbiters, or 2 of you thalia's so it's nice to have flexible sb cards. If you are sure about the meta you can stock up on multiples cards like this list. I tend to avoid sb's like this because of all the random decks in my meta.
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Thank you both! I was wondering if I get the response and yes, you did.
I am on budget, but my limit (300 USD) fits within the most of the deck variants played online. Thank you againt, I will reread both of your advices and then buy some deck based on them!
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Active player in years 1999-2004.
Mono U Draw & Go fan
Decks:
Modern - Mono U Tron, UR Delver
Legacy - UR Delver
Pauper - BGRUW Tron, Mono U Delver, Mono B Control
Damping Sphere - obvious sideboard card that people already pointed out, but I'm not sure how good it is. It is basically effective against tron and storm. That's it. Is there another deck that cares about this?
Green Devotion decks get also wrecked by it. It shuts off Nykthos and the explosive turn 2/3 plays the deck relies on. But it's less effective when they are on the play of course.
Hello all, recently picked up the rest of the deck after playing 5C humans for a while now. I'm loving it so far i've played 2 casual FNM style events with the deck so far going 3-0-1 and 3-1-0. the deck feels all around solid with me having wins against jund, ad naus, 5C humans, ponza, Naya combo/BBE, eldrazi tron drawing to lantern control (1-1-1) and losing to affinity (1-2). Here is the current link to my list and im wondering what some of you with more experience think of the following things. https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/13-03-18-mono-white-taxes/?cb=1520923528
1) running 3 thalia, guardian of thraben (currently only running 3 per the legendary and it feels alright, i also ran 3 in my 5c humans and it played well)
2) 2 smugglers thopter over 2 thraben inspectors (I don't know how much i like this, due to the discard effect and the deck really feeling like keeping cards held up is key)
3) Mangara of corondor x2 main board not many shells run him at all why is that? (i know the combo is not as good as the legacy version but man this combo has closed out games for me so far and is fairly unexpected when you attack their manabase. The availability of 2 eldrazi displacers and 4 flicker/4 angels is pretty good.)
4) running eldrazi displacers without eldrazi temples (I can currently cut 2 caverns for eldrazi temples and wondering if its worth it?)
5)Akroma as a x1 of in a mono white version as a great finisher (she is pretty hard to answer once flipped and the morph creature is a great tempo card as most of our three drops want to be held with vial, only downside is im unable to pump her)
looking foward to learning and playing a lot more of this deck.
3) Mangara of corondor x2 main board not many shells run him at all why is that? (i know the combo is not as good as the legacy version but man this combo has closed out games for me so far and is fairly unexpected when you attack their manabase. The availability of 2 eldrazi displacers and 4 flicker/4 angels is pretty good.)
There's an idea bounced around this thread that we call the "The Mangara Problem" (which I believe CharonsObal coined).
Basically, the card can do some great tricks and run away with games if you're well positioned and/or a little lucky, however there are far too many instances where your opponent will simply target removal at the guy before he gets to generate any value (beyond the 1-for-1 value as a removal-magnet).
Your list (with 4xWisp, 2xDisp, and 4xResto) definitely has enough flicker effects to minimize your chance of drawing Mangara without lining up a flicker trick, but most people still don't run the guy because removal is so prevalent in most metas.
Fingers definitely crossed on a Karakas reprint in DOM, though. Or hopefully at least a nerfed "target legendary creature you control" version.
interesting take because we have to hold priority to blink the effect they can kill. In that case the effect still persist though right because its not an activation cost? So they would essentially trade a permanent and removal for mangara and a wasted blink.
What about fiend hunter combo is it the same idea?
If we could guarantee at least trading 2-for-2 like that (with us getting to Vindicate our choice of on-board permanents) then Mangara would be amazing, but he usually dies before summoning sickness wears off and allows him to tap for his ability (i.e. he usually only trades 1-for-1 for removal).
Fiend Hunter is a bit different because (although he can't steal a game as strongly as a multi-recycled Mangara) it is flexible enough to generally a better card even when we don't get to pull off the double-exile trick with it. Fiend Hunter can slow the bleeding by temporarily holding a Goyf in exile, it can facilitate combat tricks by removing attackers/blockers, and a 1/3 isn't a completely useless fighter on the battlefield compared to Mangara being a 1/1.
Long story short, the ceiling is higher on Mangara (compared to Fiend Hunter) but the floor is also much lower.
3) Mangara of corondor x2 main board not many shells run him at all why is that? (i know the combo is not as good as the legacy version but man this combo has closed out games for me so far and is fairly unexpected when you attack their manabase. The availability of 2 eldrazi displacers and 4 flicker/4 angels is pretty good.)
There's an idea bounced around this thread that we call the "The Mangara Problem" (which I believe CharonsObal coined).
Basically, the card can do some great tricks and run away with games if you're well positioned and/or a little lucky, however there are far too many instances where your opponent will simply target removal at the guy before he gets to generate any value (beyond the 1-for-1 value as a removal-magnet).
It's possible that I coined the term, although I wasn't the first person to come up with the idea.
@roguetacticss: "The Mangara Problem" is shorthand for a combination of two things: (1) it doesn't impact the board when it enters the battlefield and (2) it readily gets removed at a tempo loss. It isn't just that Mangara dies to removal (because our whole deck dies to removal); the real problem is that Mangara costs you 1 card and 3 mana worth of tempo, only to be removed by a Lightning Bolt for 1 card and 1 mana (at a 2 mana tempo loss). All of the relevant removal cards in Modern are capable of removing Mangara for value because they all cost 2 CMC or less and they all kill Mangara (as opposed to something like Restoration Angel, which may cost 4 mana, but it doesn't die to things like Lightning Bolt and Kolaghan's Command). Sure, if Mangara ever stayed on the battlefield, it could generate a lot of value, but no experienced opponent will ever let you keep it. Hence, the Mangara problem - in theory, it looks like it could be good in our deck, but in practice it isn't.
What about fiend hunter combo is it the same idea?
Fiend Hunter is a bit different because (although he can't steal a game as strongly as a multi-recycled Mangara) it is flexible enough to generally a better card even when we don't get to pull off the double-exile trick with it. Fiend Hunter can slow the bleeding by temporarily holding a Goyf in exile, it can facilitate combat tricks by removing attackers/blockers, and a 1/3 isn't a completely useless fighter on the battlefield compared to Mangara being a 1/1.
Long story short, the ceiling is higher on Mangara (compared to Fiend Hunter) but the floor is also much lower.
@roguetacticss: x1uo3yd hit the nail on the head.
Fiend Hunter almost looks like Mangara, except it has an immediate impact on the boardstate and it has a higher toughness, which pushes it out of the range of some burn spells (like Kolaghan's Command). Fiend Hunter's downside is that it can cause blowouts during your attack phase because if your opponent can remove it at instant speed, then he or she will get back a presumably relevant blocker. But the fact that Fiend Hunter generates value immediately is a large part of what makes it playable relative to Mangara.
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
Modern
------
Boros/Naya/Mardu Burn Abzan Rhino non Noble Hierach not active Jund Tarmoless not active
DnT White
Living End Jund Restore Balance Non Borderpost/ Borderpost not active U/W Titan Control not active Mardu Nahiri/Control not active
So I am kinda new to this deck and haven't really been to my LGS since the unbanning of bloodbraid elf and jace. In the event that the store is rampant with Jund, what are some cards that I could look into adding to my main/side to increase my chances. Right now I am running just a mono white D&T that i have playtested some online, but haven't really been able to do well against jund.
I have a Eidolon of Rhetoric in my Sideboard, which is great against Bloodbraid Elf (also Storm, Burn, etc.). Ethersworn Canonist works as well, but I think the 4 toughness on Eidolon is a key feature, since it cant be killed by a Lightning Bolt.
By the way are we aloud to talk about the dominaria leaks? It looks like there is atleast 1 card if not more that could be viable for us.
I am pretty new to the deck. I have read the primer, searched for some videos on YouTube and Twitch. I decided to invest into it because I like the gameplay. Should I pick some variant on mtggoldfish, which has reached 5:0? Or do you recommend me something different?
Mono U Draw & Go fan
Decks:
Modern - Mono U Tron, UR Delver
Legacy - UR Delver
Pauper - BGRUW Tron, Mono U Delver, Mono B Control
There is that Archangel of Tithes with friendly cost and Vigilance that may fit to the deck, imo too.
I'm also a bit interested in one of the new walkers:
Legendary Planeswalker — Karn
+1: Reveal the top two cards of your library. An opponent chooses one of them. Put that card into your hand and exile the other with a silver counter on it.
-1: Put a card you own with a silver counter on it from exile into your hand.
-2: Create a 0/0 colorless Construct artifact creature token with "This creature gets +1/+1 for each artifact you control."
5 loyalty
Not sure, but gaining card advantage every turn in mono-white taxes seems aluring for grindy matchups. Slamming either Gideon might just be better tho.
Edit: hid the spoiled card text
Legacy: Death'n'Taxes
Also the following seems like a reasonable Gideon impression.
1WW
Enchantment — Saga
(As this Saga enters and after your draw step, add a lore counter. Sacrifice after III.)
I, II — Create a 2/2 white Knight creature token with vigilance.
III — Knights you control get +2/+1 until end of turn.
p.s. if we are going to talk about dominaria can we use spoilers? We really shouldn't assume that everyone is okay with having the set spoiled.
With that said:
I like the 1-drop knight, but I'm not sure it is good enough in the long run. A card like Thraben Inspector is so amazing because it is still has value late game and can be blinked for additional value. This one drop feels like it would only be dead weight if not cast on the early game. I find the enchantment mediocre. It is not a creature, so it can't be vialed in and it becomes mana-taxing due to the 1ww in its cost.
Cards that I find interesting:
Aryel, Knight of Windgrace - pretty cool card for the grindier matchups for the BW taxes build.
Damping Sphere - obvious sideboard card that people already pointed out, but I'm not sure how good it is. It is basically effective against tron and storm. That's it. Is there another deck that cares about this?
Mox Amber - I think there is an argument, albeit maybe not a very good one, for trying this card. Maybe it would require tweaking the decklist a little, but we already play 6~8 thalias. MAYBE it is worth taking a look.
Aaaaand, that is pretty much it. Hummm, not very much, I don't think. Maybe when the rest of the set is spoiled?
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).
Welcome to the forum. Picking up a stock 5-0 list (with maybe a budget replacement or two) to start playing is good advice. I think consensus in this forum is that a classic style Monowhite build is an especially great place to learn the ins and outs of the deck (though BW Eldrazi is a fine deck too if you already own those cards).
For Monowhite, Justin Prigel's recent decklist is a good stock list to start with. If you're on a bit of a budget you can definitely replace Horizon Canopy with Shefet Dunes and basic Plains without changing the feel of the deck. However, if you're on an extreme budget and can't afford some combination of Thalia/Path/Vial then it'll be very hard for us to give sound advice on a starter list.
Good luck and happy taxing.
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Blade Splicer
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
4 Path to Exile
You can increase the number of these cads but I would advise against decreasing them. Beyond that it comes down to preference and meta, but the lists that perform tipically have 4 Thraben Inspector and some mixture of Eldrazi Displacer,Thalia, Heretic Cathar, Mirran Crusader, Selfless Spirit, and Smuggler's Copter. The SB is the hardest part as they can differ vastly depending on the meta. I would start with a sb like the deck x1uo3yd linked. Generally you want 3+ cards for afinity, 2+ for storm, 2-4 graveyard hate, 2+ for elves and other creature based aggro decks, as well as a plethora of soft sb cards that are good in multiple matchups. Sometimes you want to side out all of your leonin arbiters, or 2 of you thalia's so it's nice to have flexible sb cards. If you are sure about the meta you can stock up on multiples cards like this list. I tend to avoid sb's like this because of all the random decks in my meta.
I am on budget, but my limit (300 USD) fits within the most of the deck variants played online. Thank you againt, I will reread both of your advices and then buy some deck based on them!
Mono U Draw & Go fan
Decks:
Modern - Mono U Tron, UR Delver
Legacy - UR Delver
Pauper - BGRUW Tron, Mono U Delver, Mono B Control
Green Devotion decks get also wrecked by it. It shuts off Nykthos and the explosive turn 2/3 plays the deck relies on. But it's less effective when they are on the play of course.
https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/13-03-18-mono-white-taxes/?cb=1520923528
1) running 3 thalia, guardian of thraben (currently only running 3 per the legendary and it feels alright, i also ran 3 in my 5c humans and it played well)
2) 2 smugglers thopter over 2 thraben inspectors (I don't know how much i like this, due to the discard effect and the deck really feeling like keeping cards held up is key)
3) Mangara of corondor x2 main board not many shells run him at all why is that? (i know the combo is not as good as the legacy version but man this combo has closed out games for me so far and is fairly unexpected when you attack their manabase. The availability of 2 eldrazi displacers and 4 flicker/4 angels is pretty good.)
4) running eldrazi displacers without eldrazi temples (I can currently cut 2 caverns for eldrazi temples and wondering if its worth it?)
5)Akroma as a x1 of in a mono white version as a great finisher (she is pretty hard to answer once flipped and the morph creature is a great tempo card as most of our three drops want to be held with vial, only downside is im unable to pump her)
looking foward to learning and playing a lot more of this deck.
Basically, the card can do some great tricks and run away with games if you're well positioned and/or a little lucky, however there are far too many instances where your opponent will simply target removal at the guy before he gets to generate any value (beyond the 1-for-1 value as a removal-magnet).
Your list (with 4xWisp, 2xDisp, and 4xResto) definitely has enough flicker effects to minimize your chance of drawing Mangara without lining up a flicker trick, but most people still don't run the guy because removal is so prevalent in most metas.
Fingers definitely crossed on a Karakas reprint in DOM, though. Or hopefully at least a nerfed "target legendary creature you control" version.
What about fiend hunter combo is it the same idea?
Fiend Hunter is a bit different because (although he can't steal a game as strongly as a multi-recycled Mangara) it is flexible enough to generally a better card even when we don't get to pull off the double-exile trick with it. Fiend Hunter can slow the bleeding by temporarily holding a Goyf in exile, it can facilitate combat tricks by removing attackers/blockers, and a 1/3 isn't a completely useless fighter on the battlefield compared to Mangara being a 1/1.
Long story short, the ceiling is higher on Mangara (compared to Fiend Hunter) but the floor is also much lower.
@roguetacticss: "The Mangara Problem" is shorthand for a combination of two things: (1) it doesn't impact the board when it enters the battlefield and (2) it readily gets removed at a tempo loss. It isn't just that Mangara dies to removal (because our whole deck dies to removal); the real problem is that Mangara costs you 1 card and 3 mana worth of tempo, only to be removed by a Lightning Bolt for 1 card and 1 mana (at a 2 mana tempo loss). All of the relevant removal cards in Modern are capable of removing Mangara for value because they all cost 2 CMC or less and they all kill Mangara (as opposed to something like Restoration Angel, which may cost 4 mana, but it doesn't die to things like Lightning Bolt and Kolaghan's Command). Sure, if Mangara ever stayed on the battlefield, it could generate a lot of value, but no experienced opponent will ever let you keep it. Hence, the Mangara problem - in theory, it looks like it could be good in our deck, but in practice it isn't.
@roguetacticss: x1uo3yd hit the nail on the head.
Fiend Hunter almost looks like Mangara, except it has an immediate impact on the boardstate and it has a higher toughness, which pushes it out of the range of some burn spells (like Kolaghan's Command). Fiend Hunter's downside is that it can cause blowouts during your attack phase because if your opponent can remove it at instant speed, then he or she will get back a presumably relevant blocker. But the fact that Fiend Hunter generates value immediately is a large part of what makes it playable relative to Mangara.
WUDeath&TaxesWG
Legacy
UBRGDredgeUBRG
UHigh TideU
URGLandsURG
WR Card Choice List
WUR American D&T
WUB Esper D&T
The Reserved List
Heat Maps
------
Boros/Naya/Mardu Burn
Abzan Rhino non Noble Hierachnot activeJund Tarmolessnot activeDnT White
Living End Jund
Restore Balance Non Borderpost/ Borderpostnot activeU/W Titan Controlnot activeMardu Nahiri/Controlnot active