I've been tinkering with the BW Eldrazi & Taxes list to make it better against some of the top decks of the format. Mostly aiming at UR Phoenix, GDS, and Dredge with my maindeck. Given that we're in BW, I'm also trying to tackle matchups such as Humans and Spirits with sideboard cards. Here's the tentative list I'm currently playing:
Brief comments:
(a) The way the curve is currently set up, it is very beneficial to set Vial on 2 and leverage Eldrazi Temples to cast 3cmc+ creatures. I believe this makes the Temples more meaningful and relevant when drawn in multiples.
(b) 7 1 drops make non-Vial hands more keepable. Relic into Thalia into TKS can go a long way against the decks I'm expecting. Even when not relevant, Relics are relatively easy to cycle and provide tons of food for Stranglers.
(c) The manabase tries to maximize the number of sources for each type of mana that the deck needs. I miss a couple of Horizon Canopies. The upside is that the Lilianas are very much castable, and we can rely a little bit more on black cards.
(d) The plan against creature decks is to board out all Thalias and play a Midrange role post sideboard. The PWs and the extra removal are very useful for that purpose.
(e) I try to compensate the lack of Flickerwisps with Leonin Relic-Warders in the SB. I'm not sure this is entirely correct. I'd love to play a white Reclamation Sage.
I'm struggling against the Whir Prison matchup. Their late game is much stronger and eventually they will set up bridge + torpor orb. What's your experience in this matchup? Does Kambal help?
Lastly, I'm not claiming this decklist is better than other versions such as the Chalice plan or even regular lists. It just fits my style better and provides tools for a specific meta that seems to be relevant. What's your experience playing Relic of Progenitus?
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Modern: BUR Grixis Death's Shadow/Control BUR & WBC Eldrazi & Taxes WBC
EDH: UG Edric, Spymaster of Goodstuff UG
I don't think is as competitive as other Taxes build but I enjoy brewing things and I wasn't really happy with other RW lists that I have seen before. I only played this in Xmage but it was really fun and better than I expected.
I wanted to fill the deck with a lot of must-answer threats that red provides: Grim Lavamancer, Goblin Rabblemaster and Pia and Kiran Nalaar will win the long game if they are left unchecked. Thanks to protection blinks, Thalia and of course Moon Man this happens quite often. Ajani Vengeant fills the taxing plan while also being a win condition by itself. Really, T3 Moon Man followed by T4 Ajani to start tapping out opponent is huge. 6 removal spells + Ajani's Helix + Flickerwisp + Pia makes combat really easy to attack with a huge Rabblemaster to close the game faster than in other builds
Pia Nalaar it's okay. By itself is worse than Blade Splicer, but flying tokens + mana sink + utility for topdecked Aether Vials makes her pretty good. Dire Fleet Daredevil was a little bit dissapointing.
As for SB, having access to 10 removal spells + 2 sweepers against creature decks is huge. Anger is worse than Settle but the -1 mana cost and the backup plan for RiP against Dredge convinced me to play it. As for Hazoret and Chandra, they're just another difficult to remove threat that can win the game alone, for grindy matchups. Maybe they even can make the cut to MB by cutting Ajani or P&K.
I just wanted to share this list and ask for your thoughts. I would be very pleased if someone tests it and has the blast that I had online with this list.
Hi, yesterday i played fnm and won with the same list i posted few days ago...
1 jeskay control. Win 2-0.Basically,Lingering souls win the match
2 humans. Win 2-1. Lingering souls and fatal push take me time for displacer win the match
3 humans.2-0. copter, lingering and strangler win the match
4 eldrazi tron. 2-1 win. Lose the first because dont have the four land. Stony silence win the 2&3
So I've been thinking about a neat idea for Esper Death and Taxes, relying heavily on an exile game plan. I haven't taken it to a tournament yet, but have been testing online with good results. So far I've 2-0'd tron, burn and a bunch of random rogue decks like fairies and a few others. Kaya does huge work in this and I am thinking about swapping the Thoughtseize for cabal therapist once it's out. SB is kinda soft, I think it needs something but I can't tell what. The creature numbers are loose too, still ironing that out. Opinions and suggestions?
Hey everyone, it's been a bit since I last posted. I saw an article title a week or so ago on scg about ugin's conjurant and celestial kirin doing an armageddon impression. I was wondering if anyone had played around with that? I didn't look at proposed decklists in the article because it does not seem worth the effort for a result that won't always win.
Hey everyone, it's been a bit since I last posted. I saw an article title a week or so ago on scg about ugin's conjurant and celestial kirin doing an armageddon impression. I was wondering if anyone had played around with that? I didn't look at proposed decklists in the article because it does not seem worth the effort for a result that won't always win.
It seems super sweet but like you said not worth the effort. I do hope to see in on an MTGGoldfish against the odds some day though.
With no tutoring or card draw there is not a good enough way to cast it reliably while being ahead on board.
Hey everyone, it's been a bit since I last posted. I saw an article title a week or so ago on scg about ugin's conjurant and celestial kirin doing an armageddon impression. I was wondering if anyone had played around with that? I didn't look at proposed decklists in the article because it does not seem worth the effort for a result that won't always win.
It seems super sweet but like you said not worth the effort. I do hope to see in on an MTGGoldfish against the odds some day though.
With no tutoring or card draw there is not a good enough way to cast it reliably while being ahead on board.
Hey everyone, it's been a bit since I last posted. I saw an article title a week or so ago on scg about ugin's conjurant and celestial kirin doing an armageddon impression. I was wondering if anyone had played around with that? I didn't look at proposed decklists in the article because it does not seem worth the effort for a result that won't always win.
It seems super sweet but like you said not worth the effort. I do hope to see in on an MTGGoldfish against the odds some day though.
With no tutoring or card draw there is not a good enough way to cast it reliably while being ahead on board.
4x Militia Bugler
4x Eldritch Evolution
EDIT: oh what Kirin is a 3/3?
Even if Kirin could be grabbed by bugler that is not enough. Someone a while back did a spread sheet and posted it and the chance of hitting the card you want is really low with bugler. Eldritch evolution is also really bad in any deck that plays Thalia
A shame she can't protect herself like mother of runes but the benefit of protecting your others against colorless as well is sweet. Not sure what comes out though. I am not convinced we can afford to give up thraben inspector. Hopefully we will get recruiter of the guard or the like that you can search your entire library and not just a few deep like the bugler. Then the inspector can be ditched.
I have been using an Boros Eldrazi and Taxes build based from the Mono White Eldrazi and Taxes build of Tom Medvec which he used in SCG Classic Syracuse. I made some modifications so that it'll have more reach and removal with burn spells. I took this to 2 FNMs and had some great results. Favorable matchup against UW control, Burn and Phoenix decks and my losses were to Tron, the new Karn build. Any comments and recommendations would be highly appreciated.
I don't think that Vial is that necessary for your deck. Playing Smasher and Vial at the same deck is really awkward. I guess you should replace vial with Chalice of the Void to worth the ramp. It should be a Thalia Stompy style deck, not quite death and taxes, imo
I don't think that Vial is that necessary for your deck. Playing Smasher and Vial at the same deck is really awkward. I guess you should replace vial with Chalice of the Void to worth the ramp. It should be a Thalia Stompy style deck, not quite death and taxes, imo
You're right, I did remove Aether Vial but I didn't replace it with the Chalice of the Void since it's a nonbo with my removal package, and I like the removal package as of now because of the reach and the extra damage it pushes through. What I did was up Path to Exile to 4 and added 3 Tithe Taker. The slots Tithe Taker took were flexi slots, and I was stumped on what card to fill it with so I just went with Tithe Taker. What do you think?
I don't think that Vial is that necessary for your deck. Playing Smasher and Vial at the same deck is really awkward. I guess you should replace vial with Chalice of the Void to worth the ramp. It should be a Thalia Stompy style deck, not quite death and taxes, imo
You're right, I did remove Aether Vial but I didn't replace it with the Chalice of the Void since it's a nonbo with my removal package, and I like the removal package as of now because of the reach and the extra damage it pushes through. What I did was up Path to Exile to 4 and added 3 Tithe Taker. The slots Tithe Taker took were flexi slots, and I was stumped on what card to fill it with so I just went with Tithe Taker. What do you think?
I personally like taker more than chalice, though it's crazy hahaha; about the removal package, if you take a look at the staxes and taxes forum you'll see that a lot of people try declaration in stone and dismember. Chalice is very strong, although I like Taker hahaha
I don't think that Vial is that necessary for your deck. Playing Smasher and Vial at the same deck is really awkward. I guess you should replace vial with Chalice of the Void to worth the ramp. It should be a Thalia Stompy style deck, not quite death and taxes, imo
You're right, I did remove Aether Vial but I didn't replace it with the Chalice of the Void since it's a nonbo with my removal package, and I like the removal package as of now because of the reach and the extra damage it pushes through. What I did was up Path to Exile to 4 and added 3 Tithe Taker. The slots Tithe Taker took were flexi slots, and I was stumped on what card to fill it with so I just went with Tithe Taker. What do you think?
I personally like taker more than chalice, though it's crazy hahaha; about the removal package, if you take a look at the staxes and taxes forum you'll see that a lot of people try declaration in stone and dismember. Chalice is very strong, although I like Taker hahaha
I forgot Declaration in Stone exists. I might try it, but wouldn't it be more detrimental on our part since it now has 3cmc with Thalia on the board? As far as my experience with the archetype goes, we wouldn't want to cast any removal spells that costs 3cmc or more, save for board wipes.
For everyone else here, has anyone tried tri-color DnT? The one without the Eldrazi package since "colorless" is technically a color when building mana bases.
I'd like to talk about what BW Eldrazi & Taxes maindeck looks like after Silent Clearing and Giver of Runes. Replacing every single flex slot with GoR and introducing some number of the Horizon lands makes our main look something like this:
What I don't like about it is forgoing the 4th Thalia, which seems to be one of the selling points of our deck in the first place. Should we at least have her on the sideboard? If so, does the "stock" sideboard look something like this?
I think you want to full 4 silent clearing. As for thalia you could make a meta call for what is more important, her or arbiter? I would consider getting the forth thalia by going to 3 displacers. A less good option would be go down 1 TKS/sculler if you really want the 4th displacer. I don't play BW but I assume you don't need the full 8 of these effects. The math on 7 vs 8 to get the consistency you want must be close but not sure which discard creature would be better to cut.
Hi,
For an Eldrazi Taxes deck, here's how I woud try to build a newer version of the deck.
Silent Clearing,
Our deck is allready very mana demanding. We want to be shure to be able to activate the Displacer ability since it's how we (or at least me) win a lot of the games.
Event if the ability to draw cards is one of our bigest weekness, we shoud be carefull of not loosing too much life beacause of our lands.
Giver of runes
Yes i woud play it. However, playing 4 of them takes a lot of place in our maindeck often at the cost of potential grave hate such as Kaya, Orzhov usurper. I woud like to play at least 3 of them in the 75, i'm not shure about all 4 in the maindeck.
In my case, since the BW eldrazi taxes version can't really rely on the mana denial package as much as the mono W version, I will try go down to 3 Leonin Arbiter
Sorry for my bad english
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I've been tinkering with the BW Eldrazi & Taxes list to make it better against some of the top decks of the format. Mostly aiming at UR Phoenix, GDS, and Dredge with my maindeck. Given that we're in BW, I'm also trying to tackle matchups such as Humans and Spirits with sideboard cards. Here's the tentative list I'm currently playing:
4 Concealed Courtyard
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Shambling Vent
2 Godless Shrine
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Wastes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Reality Smasher
Noncreature Spells (11)
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
3 Relic of Progenitus
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Fatal Push
1 Settle the Wreckage
1 Selfless Spirit
2 Auriok Champion
2 Leonin Relic-Warder
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
Brief comments:
(a) The way the curve is currently set up, it is very beneficial to set Vial on 2 and leverage Eldrazi Temples to cast 3cmc+ creatures. I believe this makes the Temples more meaningful and relevant when drawn in multiples.
(b) 7 1 drops make non-Vial hands more keepable. Relic into Thalia into TKS can go a long way against the decks I'm expecting. Even when not relevant, Relics are relatively easy to cycle and provide tons of food for Stranglers.
(c) The manabase tries to maximize the number of sources for each type of mana that the deck needs. I miss a couple of Horizon Canopies. The upside is that the Lilianas are very much castable, and we can rely a little bit more on black cards.
(d) The plan against creature decks is to board out all Thalias and play a Midrange role post sideboard. The PWs and the extra removal are very useful for that purpose.
(e) I try to compensate the lack of Flickerwisps with Leonin Relic-Warders in the SB. I'm not sure this is entirely correct. I'd love to play a white Reclamation Sage.
I'm struggling against the Whir Prison matchup. Their late game is much stronger and eventually they will set up bridge + torpor orb. What's your experience in this matchup? Does Kambal help?
Lastly, I'm not claiming this decklist is better than other versions such as the Chalice plan or even regular lists. It just fits my style better and provides tools for a specific meta that seems to be relevant. What's your experience playing Relic of Progenitus?
BUR Grixis Death's Shadow/Control BUR & WBC Eldrazi & Taxes WBC
EDH:
UG Edric, Spymaster of Goodstuff UG
4 Inspiring Vantage
4 Sacred Foundry
8 Plains
1 Mountain
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Horizon Canopy
Spells (11):
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
1 Ajani Vengeant
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Dire Fleet Daredevil
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
2 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Pia Nalaar
3 Magus of the Moon
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
3 Restoration Angel
1 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Stony Silence
2 Abrade
2 Rest in Peace
2 Damping Sphere
2 Path to Exile
2 Anger of the Gods
I don't think is as competitive as other Taxes build but I enjoy brewing things and I wasn't really happy with other RW lists that I have seen before. I only played this in Xmage but it was really fun and better than I expected.
I wanted to fill the deck with a lot of must-answer threats that red provides: Grim Lavamancer, Goblin Rabblemaster and Pia and Kiran Nalaar will win the long game if they are left unchecked. Thanks to protection blinks, Thalia and of course Moon Man this happens quite often. Ajani Vengeant fills the taxing plan while also being a win condition by itself. Really, T3 Moon Man followed by T4 Ajani to start tapping out opponent is huge. 6 removal spells + Ajani's Helix + Flickerwisp + Pia makes combat really easy to attack with a huge Rabblemaster to close the game faster than in other builds
Pia Nalaar it's okay. By itself is worse than Blade Splicer, but flying tokens + mana sink + utility for topdecked Aether Vials makes her pretty good. Dire Fleet Daredevil was a little bit dissapointing.
As for SB, having access to 10 removal spells + 2 sweepers against creature decks is huge. Anger is worse than Settle but the -1 mana cost and the backup plan for RiP against Dredge convinced me to play it. As for Hazoret and Chandra, they're just another difficult to remove threat that can win the game alone, for grindy matchups. Maybe they even can make the cut to MB by cutting Ajani or P&K.
I just wanted to share this list and ask for your thoughts. I would be very pleased if someone tests it and has the blast that I had online with this list.
1 jeskay control. Win 2-0.Basically,Lingering souls win the match
2 humans. Win 2-1. Lingering souls and fatal push take me time for displacer win the match
3 humans.2-0. copter, lingering and strangler win the match
4 eldrazi tron. 2-1 win. Lose the first because dont have the four land. Stony silence win the 2&3
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3x Leonin Arbiter
3x Flickerwisp
2x Lavinia, Azorius Renegade
3x Tidehollow Sculler
2x Spell queller
3x Meddling Mage
3x Wasteland Strangler
2x Reflector Mage
Planeswalker 2
2x Kaya, Orzhov Usurper
Instants 4
4x Path to Exile
4x Thoughtseize
Artifact 2
4x Aethervial
Lands 22
3x Darkslick Shores
3x Seachrome Coast
3x Hallowed Fountain
2x Godless Shrine
2x Watery Grave
4x Ghost quarter
2x Field of Ruin
1x Swamp
2x Plains
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Rest in Peace
2x Stony Silence
3x Dovin's Veto
3x Settle the Wreckage
2x Selfless Spirit
It seems super sweet but like you said not worth the effort. I do hope to see in on an MTGGoldfish against the odds some day though.
With no tutoring or card draw there is not a good enough way to cast it reliably while being ahead on board.
4x Militia Bugler
4x Eldritch Evolution
EDIT: oh what Kirin is a 3/3?
Even if Kirin could be grabbed by bugler that is not enough. Someone a while back did a spread sheet and posted it and the chance of hitting the card you want is really low with bugler. Eldritch evolution is also really bad in any deck that plays Thalia
A shame she can't protect herself like mother of runes but the benefit of protecting your others against colorless as well is sweet. Not sure what comes out though. I am not convinced we can afford to give up thraben inspector. Hopefully we will get recruiter of the guard or the like that you can search your entire library and not just a few deep like the bugler. Then the inspector can be ditched.
Of those, EnT and WW DnT seem like they would benefit from this card.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Ranger-Captain of Eos ... almost.
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Blade Splicer
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
4 Thought-knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
Noncreature Spells
3 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Aether Vial
Lands
4 Inspiring Vantage
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Needle Spires
2 Plains
2 Mountain
1 Wastes
1 Wear // Tear
1 Abrade
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Settle the Wreckage
1 Alpine Moon
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
You're right, I did remove Aether Vial but I didn't replace it with the Chalice of the Void since it's a nonbo with my removal package, and I like the removal package as of now because of the reach and the extra damage it pushes through. What I did was up Path to Exile to 4 and added 3 Tithe Taker. The slots Tithe Taker took were flexi slots, and I was stumped on what card to fill it with so I just went with Tithe Taker. What do you think?
I forgot Declaration in Stone exists. I might try it, but wouldn't it be more detrimental on our part since it now has 3cmc with Thalia on the board? As far as my experience with the archetype goes, we wouldn't want to cast any removal spells that costs 3cmc or more, save for board wipes.
For everyone else here, has anyone tried tri-color DnT? The one without the Eldrazi package since "colorless" is technically a color when building mana bases.
I'd like to talk about what BW Eldrazi & Taxes maindeck looks like after Silent Clearing and Giver of Runes. Replacing every single flex slot with GoR and introducing some number of the Horizon lands makes our main look something like this:
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Silent Clearing
2 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
Creatures (30)
4 Giver of Runes
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
What I don't like about it is forgoing the 4th Thalia, which seems to be one of the selling points of our deck in the first place. Should we at least have her on the sideboard? If so, does the "stock" sideboard look something like this?
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Wasteland Strangler
3 Rest in Peace
3 Stony Silence
2 Fatal Push
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
And then you fill out the 4 remaining slots with cards like Kambal, Consul of Allocation, Selfless Spirit, Burrenton Forge-Tender, Kor Firewalker, Settle the Wreckage and so forth?
What are you going to try post-Modern Horizons?
BUR Grixis Death's Shadow/Control BUR & WBC Eldrazi & Taxes WBC
EDH:
UG Edric, Spymaster of Goodstuff UG
For an Eldrazi Taxes deck, here's how I woud try to build a newer version of the deck.
Silent Clearing,
Our deck is allready very mana demanding. We want to be shure to be able to activate the Displacer ability since it's how we (or at least me) win a lot of the games.
Event if the ability to draw cards is one of our bigest weekness, we shoud be carefull of not loosing too much life beacause of our lands.
Because of that i woud play only 3 Silent Clearing
Giver of runes
Yes i woud play it. However, playing 4 of them takes a lot of place in our maindeck often at the cost of potential grave hate such as Kaya, Orzhov usurper. I woud like to play at least 3 of them in the 75, i'm not shure about all 4 in the maindeck.
In my case, since the BW eldrazi taxes version can't really rely on the mana denial package as much as the mono W version, I will try go down to 3 Leonin Arbiter
Sorry for my bad english